Professor Game Podcast – Episode 438
Joris Beerda tested Human-Focused Design vs Design Thinking (Which actually works?)
Aired: March 30, 2026
Host: Rob Alvarez
Guest: Joris Beerda (CEO & Co-founder, The Octalysis Group)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the practical differences and real-world impact between "human-focused design"—as embodied by the Octalysis framework—and the more widely known “design thinking” approach. Joris Beerda, a global leader in human-focused gamification and engagement strategies, discusses his journey, operational philosophies, case studies, and the five-step Octalysis Design Process. The conversation offers insights into boosting engagement, retention, and loyalty in products, work, and learning through a behavioral design approach that challenges the limits of “design thinking.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Human-Focused Design vs. Design Thinking

[00:30 | 16:38 | 18:59]

• Joris opens by distinguishing commonly conflated terms and approaches:

  "Often, when we come in, the keywords that people have on the lips is design thinking, which sounds like human-focused design. And yet we've seen that it doesn't work. It doesn't really work to make experiences where people want to come back to over and over and over again." (Joris, 00:30 & 16:38)

• Design Thinking: Inclusive, intuitive, iterative, guided by user feedback—but lacks mechanisms for sustained engagement.
• Human-Focused Design/Octalysis: Prioritizes desire, motivation, and recurring engagement (return visits), underpinned by behavioral science and the Octalysis framework.

2. Inside The Octalysis Group & Joris’ Routine

[03:44 | 06:53 | 10:12]

• Joris describes a hyper-global “always-on” lifestyle, leading remote teams across time zones for major brands:

  "Being a CEO...we have teams in Latin America, North America, Europe as well as Asia...So my week basically consists of very long days." (Joris, 03:59)

• The company’s distributed, remote model has been core since inception (pre-pandemic), focusing on meritocracy, transparency, and a flat hierarchy:

  "It's almost 40% [of revenue] goes directly to people who do the work...it's just basically what value do you create. And that's the...model." (Joris, 10:12)

3. Lessons from Successes and Failures

[06:53 | 13:29 | 14:50]

• Failure:
  • Takeda Pharmaceuticals: After months engineering a nationwide gamified blood donation program, unforeseen financial troubles at Takeda led to sudden project cancellation.

    “All our efforts, everything you focused for half a year on was completely gone...diversity of clients is always there is something that still haunts me at night.” (Joris, 06:53)

• Success:
  • Porsche Motors: Lauded for futuristic, brand-engagement concepts, the project inspired VW’s program lead to quit and join Octalysis Group.

    "He left a very secure position...for us. And that was...a big validation of the work that we’re doing." (Joris, 14:50)

  • Procter & Gamble/Navajo Arbico: Multi-year success, numbers kept increasing long-term, earning a Gamification Europe award.

    “Even four or five years down the road could still see the numbers increasing.” (Joris, 15:33)

4. The Five-Step Octalysis Design Process

[16:38 | 18:59 – 29:05] Joris provides an in-depth walkthrough of the proprietary process:

• Step 1: Define Objectives & Strategy Dashboard:

  “First step is actually really boring: what are we designing for? ... we cannot optimize for 20 objectives—actually for only one.” (Joris, 18:59)

  • Use the "Strategy Dashboard" to clarify and narrow business metrics and expected user actions.
• Step 2: Feature Brainstorm & Prioritization:
  • Align potential features to phases of user journey.
  • Rate each feature’s 'Power' (motivational value) and 'Ease' (implementation effort):

    “We give all these features a score, a power score...and an ease implementation score...So we know what’s powerful and actually within my means for a V1.” (Joris, 18:59)

• Step 3: Experience Mapping:
  • Visualize user flow, map out closed engagement loops.
• Step 4: Battle Plan (Game Economy Design):
  • Detail how actions, rewards, and progress interrelate.
• Step 5: Wireframing & Handover:
  • Visual prototyping for handover to development.
• This process helps clients discover what they really want and need:

  "Clients...come to the conclusion that what they were designing for is actually completely different." (Joris, 18:59)

5. Gamification as Product Transformation

• True gamification redefines not only engagement, but often the very goals and identity of the product or business:

  "Especially in the early stages...we are almost more like product designers. Not just gamification, not just engagement, not just fun—we are redefining for most companies what they're actually about." (Joris, 18:59)

6. On Behavioral Science, Books & Empathy

[29:22 | 32:27 | 34:54]

• Joris would love to hear Daniel Kahneman discuss engagement, comparing loss aversion and fast/slow thinking with Octalysis’ concepts of meaning, agency, and motivational drivers.
• Book Recommendation:

  "Why Everyone (Else) Is a Hypocrite"—evolutionary psychology, understanding our conflicting motivations builds empathy, crucial for human-focused design. "If you want to appreciate human-focused design, you need to emphasize that we're all fallible and hypocritical—and all the good things that we also are." (Joris, 33:25)

• Joris’ “superpower”:

  “It's feeling the experience...being able to feel yourself as a user...scan the scene and understand what's going on and have empathy for why people react in a certain way.” (Joris, 34:54)

7. The Future: Gamification, AI, and New Technologies

[36:31]

• As technologies advance (blockchain, AI), engagement and “human-centric” design become both more challenging and more vital:

  "The more AI automates, the less engaging it will be because it runs on the average of the data set...So we are seeing a lot of demand. We are trying to mainstream AI in our community of developers...how do we build that up into the design but also on the back end?" (Joris, 36:31)

8. Final Words and Resources

[39:59]

• Joris encourages listeners to explore case studies at octalysisgroup.com:

  "If you want to have an overview of what we've done in the last 12 years for different clients, the case studies page...is really interesting...Or just email me at joris@octalysisgroup.com." (Joris, 39:59)

• Octalysis is positioned as both practical consultancy and “a force for good,” aspiring to make experiences more positive, resonant, and intrinsically motivating.

Notable Quotes

• On Human-Centered Design vs Human-Focused Design:
  “Design thinking...ticks all the right boxes for everybody to like it. Yet we've seen that it doesn't work...it doesn't really work to make experiences that where people want to come back to over and over and over again." (Joris, 16:38)
• On the role of empathy:
  “If you want to appreciate human-focused design, you need to emphasize that we're all fallible...for me it’s built up a lot of empathy for humanity.” (Joris, 33:25)
• On the superpower of a designer:
  “It's feeling the experience...being able to feel yourself as a user...” (Joris, 34:54)
• On success as validation:
  “He left a very secure position… for us. And that was...a big validation of the work that we’re doing.” (Joris, 14:50)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [00:30] Design Thinking vs. Human-Focused Design
• [03:38] Joris' Role and The Octalysis Group’s Structure
• [06:53] Lessons from Failure (Takeda Pharmaceuticals)
• [13:29] Success Stories (Porsche, P&G/Navajo Arbico)
• [16:38, 18:59] The Five-Step Octalysis Design Process
• [29:22] Dream Podcast Guests (Kahneman, Thaler)
• [32:27] Book Recommendation: “Why Everyone (Else) Is a Hypocrite”
• [34:54] Superpower: Empathy and Experience Scanning
• [36:31] The Future: Gamification, Blockchain, AI
• [39:59] Closing Thoughts, Resources, Contact Info

Resources & Where to Find More

• Octalysis Group Website & Case Studies
• Contact Joris Beerda: joris@octalysisgroup.com
• Book: “Why Everyone (Else) Is a Hypocrite” (Robert Kurzban)
• For engagement professionals: Join the Professor Game Community (details in show notes)

This episode is an unmissable primer for innovators, product leaders, and educators interested in going beyond buzzwords to implement behavioral design that truly engages. Joris’ experienced take brings clarity—and challenge—to how we think about meaningful engagement.