Professor Game Podcast – Episode 412

Title: Why Careers Need a Game Loop, with Unity's Jessica Lindl
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Rob Alvarez
Guest: Jessica Lindl (VP of Ecosystem Growth, Unity Technologies)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the concept of “career game loops” with Jessica Lindl, VP of Ecosystem Growth at Unity Technologies and author of The Career Game Loop: Learn to Earn in the New Economy. Host Rob Alvarez and Jessica dive into game design thinking as a framework for career development and life, emphasizing how continuous feedback, player-centric thinking, and community can transform both professional and personal journeys.

Jessica shares her own failures, successes, and practical frameworks for using gamification to drive engagement, learning, and growth, both at Unity and in her book. The conversation is rich with actionable advice, real-life stories, and references to the broader world of games and education.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jessica Lindl’s Background and Role at Unity

• Timestamps: 01:46 – 04:18
• Jessica leads global efforts at Unity empowering creators, learners, and professionals through game-inspired solutions.
• Her background spans over 20 years at the intersection of gaming, education, and workforce development.
• Daily routine: No two days are the same. Jessica balances global communications, supporting her team (“remove blockers”), dedicated learning time, and ending her day with play (both physical and digital).

2. Learning from Failure: GlassLab Case Study

• Timestamps: 05:14 – 08:26

Key Story:
Jessica describes her transition into gaming through the ambitious (but ultimately unsuccessful) GlassLab initiative, which aimed to show the evidence and assessment behind video games for learning.

• The project failed because it didn’t solve a pain point for its primary users—teachers. “No matter what great idea you have, if it's not giving your player joy or improving their life in some way, then it's never going to work.” (Jessica, 07:37)
• Jessica reframed her view of failure: “…the more risk I took, the more I learned through failure.” (05:28)

Takeaway:
Always prioritize the needs and perspectives of your end user (“player”) rather than pleasing powerful stakeholders.

3. Success at Unity: Empowering Learners at Scale

• Timestamps: 10:09 – 11:50

• Jessica found success at Unity by focusing on reducing friction for learners and democratizing access to skill-building:

  “If you have a motivated, driven individual, they can on their own, wherever they live in the world, move into this type of work and build their destiny on it.” (Jessica, 10:53)

• Impact: Over a million students and half a million adults are actively learning or reskilling with Unity.

4. Game-Inspired Framework for Career Growth

• Timestamps: 13:12 – 14:56

Jessica outlines a four-step “Career Game Loop” applicable to careers and beyond:

1. Go on Your Quest: Define what gives you passion and joy, and understand your community.
2. Level Up: Build the skills needed to achieve your aspirations.
3. Accomplish: Reach mastery in your chosen field or achieve your goal.
4. Craft/Iterate: Once you reach your goal, start again—craft your next opportunity and loop back.

“At the center... we call that the career game loop, but you can apply it to anything you’re trying to achieve in life.” (Jessica, 14:41)

She offers free resources, a course, and a “virtual coach” at careerloop.com.

5. Best Practice: Continuous Feedback Loop

• Timestamps: 15:47 – 16:40

• Continuous feedback is essential.

  “In games, you’re constantly getting feedback. Every move, every decision… And if we design our lives in the same way... we can continuously get that feedback and learn from it as opposed to being nervous or scared that it’s going to be some sort of personal statement on who we are...” (Jessica, 15:49)

• Rob draws parallels between immediate feedback in games and the much slower feedback cycles in education, highlighting the need for more rapid, actionable feedback in real life.

6. Community and the Social Dimension of Games

• Timestamps: 23:19 – 24:14

• Jessica is deeply inspired by the intrinsic community elements of games, both in-game and on platforms like Discord and Twitch.

  "There is just something magical about the gaming community that I don’t think we appreciate as much because we’re in it... if only all of our communities could work like the best of the gaming community." (Jessica, 23:25)

• She acknowledges the “dark side” but praises the self-policing, supportive nature of strong gaming communities.

7. Rapid-Fire Personal Insights

• Recommended Book: Reality is Broken by Jane McGonigal, as it echoes the podcast’s themes of applying game design to real life. (18:45)
• Superpower: Pattern recognition—identifying key signals in systems and people to bring out the best in both. (20:11)
• Favorite Game: The Legend of Zelda series, for its open world, age-independence, moral choice, and family appeal. (21:12)
• Key Game Experience: Games that embed community, showing how online relationships and support can transcend geographic and cultural boundaries. (23:19)

Notable Quotes

• On failure and learning:
  “The more risk I took, the more I learned through failure.” (Jessica, 05:28)

• On community:
  “There is just something magical about the gaming community that I don’t think we appreciate as much because we’re in it.” (Jessica, 23:25)

• On end-user focus:
  “His feedback is not as important to me as the person—the Unity developer or monetization person—that I’m trying to serve and making a difference in their lives.” (Jessica, 09:11)

• On feedback:
  “If we design our lives in the same way, where it’s just constant feedback, we can just continuously get that feedback and learn from it.” (Jessica, 15:49 & repeated at 00:32 and 15:47)

Resources and Links

• Jessica’s book/website: careerloop.com (with free course & community)
• Unity Technologies: unity.com
• Connect with Jessica: LinkedIn (Jessica Lindl—she’s responsive to DMs)

Memorable Moments

• Jessica’s story of GlassLab’s failure and reframing failure as risk and learning (05:14–08:26).
• The four-step “Career Game Loop” model including visible parallels to game design strategy (13:12–14:56).
• Lively discussion of feedback loops in gaming vs. education (16:40–17:52).
• Reflections on the power and pitfalls of gaming communities (23:19–25:11).
• Rob and Jessica’s shared love for The Legend of Zelda and gaming’s power to cross generations (21:12–22:16).

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jessica’s daily routine & Unity role: 02:54–04:18
• Learning from failure / GlassLab story: 05:14–08:26
• What she’d do differently: 08:43–09:39
• Unity’s learning success story: 10:09–11:50
• Career Game Loop framework: 13:12–14:56
• Best practice—continuous feedback: 15:47–16:40
• Community in games: 23:19–24:14
• Personal favorites (book, game): 18:45–22:16

Final Thoughts

Jessica’s perspective seamlessly links the principles of great game design—player focus, immediate feedback, and nurturing community—with career development and lifelong learning. The episode is highly actionable, packed with frameworks, and has broad relevance for anyone interested in education, workforce development, or making life itself more fun, engaging, and meaningful.

For Jessica’s book, free course, and resources: careerloop.com
More about Unity: unity.com
Connect with Jessica: LinkedIn