Loading summary
A
How fancy does a lawn care program really need to be? Or to put it another way, how bougie should your lawn be? You know, you walk into a big box store and you're going to find a simple four step lawn care program. You know, and you look at your program or you look at your competitor's program and you might be offering six applications, you know, seven, eight, nine, maybe even 10. And then you start adding insect control and fungicides and growth regulators and micronutrients and biostimulants and sea kelp and humic acid and carbon. And pretty sure your lawn care program starts sounding like the menu at a five star restaurant rather than a fertilizer schedule. So who's right? Is a four step program enough? Or do you really need 10 visits to have a beautiful lawn? And today we're going to answer that question.
B
Today's episode is brought to you by Yardbook, the all in one CRM for your lawn care business. And as an exclusive partner of this podcast, you can get started today and begin simplifying your business and maximizing your profits. Sign up now at Yardbook. The link is in. The show notes time now for Profits with Paycheck, an essential podcast for you in the green industry who are looking to unlock the full potential of your business. Hosted by John Pajak, your certified financial coach, the show features in depth discussions with successful entrepreneurs, thought leaders and industry experts providing practical advice and proven strategies on financial planning, operations, marketing and sales. Profits with Paycheck has valuable insights and action steps that you can implement today for creating long term success. Now here's John Pajak.
A
Welcome to Profits with Paycheck. The podcast re dive into business strategies and financial insights for the green industry. So I ask you today, how bougie do you have to be? And I don't mean that in a bad way. It's like we get real fancy with stuff, you know, we care about what we're doing, we're professionals. And if you're not a professional and you're listening to this, well, hey, welcome to the crew. We're going to, welcome to the club. We're going to drop some knowledge on you today, but let's dive into this. I, I want to say in a nutshell that there is no one right answer. And I believe a mistake that we can have, we could share within this industry is believing that there's one perfect lawn care program. I don't think there is. You know, there are good programs for specific situations and that's an important distinction because you look At a lawn in Florida, it's not going to have the same challenges as a lawn in Ohio. And a lawn in Arizona doesn't have the same needs as a lawn in Pennsylvania. You know, these are different climates. We have different grasses, we have different pests that we have to contend with. You know, you've got different weeds and insects and diseases, different soil conditions. Yet many of the most recognizable lawn care programs are designed to be sold nationally. You know, I'm talking about the big box store stuff, you know, that you see advertised nationwide, you know, enabled to do that. They have to be universal programs. You know, they just have to be simple enough to work across a wide variety of markets. And that's part of what makes them successful, but it's also what creates limitations. So, you know, again, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be referring to, you know, the four step program, you know, because it's like. It is essentially like the most successful lawn care marketing programs ever created. Now, we got to give credit where credit's due because, you know, those four step programs have been around for decades for a reason, because you can get results from it. But it's also, like I said, a very successful marketing campaign. And one of the other reasons that it's so successful is that it's simple. It's easy for homeowners to understand, it's easy to purchase, and for many lawns, it can provide a decent result. You know, you could get your crabgrass, you could feed the lawn questionability about how well it does with controlling broadleaf weeds. But that's my opinion. And then, you know, you finish with a full fertilizer and, you know, for a homeowner who wants a greener lawn with fewer weeds, that may be exactly what they need. But here's the thing. You know, a program designed to be sold across the entire country has to make compromises. It can't be too specific. It can't be built around one region's unique challenges. It can't account for every soil type and grass variety, the weather patterns, or the pest issues that we have, because if it did, it wouldn't be a national program anymore. So this is where professional lawn care companies have an opportunity. You know, a universal program gives homeowners a foundation, but a regional or a very local program could solve problems. Now think about this. You know, a lawn care company operating in the northeast, you know, they may need to focus heavily on cool season, turf, summer stress, and the specific weed cycles that we go through, right? Whereas a company in the south, they may Be dealing with completely different grass types, a totally different type of bug, you know, insect, and also have a lot of disease pressure. And it's been brought to my attention that I neglect to mention. I only talk about, you know, north and south as far as turf. Well, our friends out west, they have a, they have a whole different issue. You know, they have irrigation challenges and you know, drought stress and water restrictions. The needs for all of these are different, the timing of our applications are different and the solutions we need to come up with are different, you know, because it's not going to fix everything. You know, and national program has to be broad enough to fit everyone. It's, it's nice, it's good. It's like, ah, you got a really junky lawn. It can make a huge difference. If you're looking for a really high end lawn, well, it's gonna be lacking, you know, and when you look at a lawn care provider, professional lawn care provider who knows their area, that local program that they've developed, it, it, it's specific enough to actually solve the problems in that market. So, you know, before I ever recommend a program and this is when people call us, I want to know something, you know, what are we trying to accomplish? You know, does the homeowner just simply want fewer weeds in their lawn? Do they want a greener lawn? Do they, is their goal to have the nicest lawn in the neighborhood? You know, some of the questions that pop up is like, do they have irrigation? Are they willing to water during the drought? You know, what's their budget? Because you know, and then, you know, what, what problems are they actually experiencing? Because every answer changes my recommendation. And you can't prescribe the right solution until you understand the goal. Because even the best lawn care companies don't start with a package, they start with a diagnosis. Now let's talk about why professional programs often include more visits. And here's where people get confused. Those extra visits, they're not always about adding more fertilizer. They're about adding more attention, more monitoring and better timing. You know, we're spot spraying weeds before they spread. You know, we're looking for insects, we're watching for disease, we're making adjustments based on the weather and we're, it gives us the ability to respond what the lawn is actually telling us. In other words, you know, the customer is not paying, just paying for more applications, they're paying for more management. And that's a big difference because you know, a calendar based program says here's what to apply this Time of the year, a professional program says, here's what your lawn needs based on where you live and what we're seeing, what we're diagnosing. Big difference. Back when I was getting my lawn care business off the ground, I was juggling routes, invoices, and customer notes with paper and prayers. It was chaos. Until I found Yardbook. Yardbook gave me the structure. It helped me track chemicals, route efficiently, invoice faster, and most importantly, it helped me grow a profitable business. If you're tired of duct taping your systems Together, go to yardbook.com and sign up for free. And if you're ready to go premium, use promo code PAYJACK to get your first 30 days on me. Hey, guys, John Pajak here. Equip Expo is the biggest event in the green industry. So let's do some quick math. Today, Equip Expo's registration is $30 with promo code PAYJACK. That gets cut in half. So your ticket's only $15. But if you keep waiting, the price is going to continue to go up until you're looking at $120 for a ticket. So the question isn't whether you're going to Equip Expo. The question is whether you're going to pay $15 or $120. Now, I've attended Equip for years. I've hosted on Pod Row, I've emceed the morning show, and every year I leave with new ideas and new friendships and new opportunities. So go to equip expo.com, use promo code paycheck, and lock in the lowest price before it goes up. Links in the show notes. Now, remember, the goal isn't to sell the biggest program. The goal is to recommend the right program. And here's something we don't talk about very often. Every additional application doesn't create the same level of improvement. You know, imagine that you're starting a lawn from scratch. You know, the first application creates a huge improvement. You know, it's like, oh, my goodness, is my lawn. Everything's. The weeds were so bad. And now, now it's, oh, wow, those weeds are really dying. Yeah, there's still some weeds in there. But man, this looks so much better. Man, I need more grass. You know, but, you know, we go to the first one that's a huge improvement. We could look at our second one that helps even more. And then the third builds on that, and the fourth creates another noticeable jump. But eventually, each additional visit creates a smaller improvement than the one before it. And, you know, economists, we call this. The law of diminishing returns. Now, that doesn't mean that those extra applications aren't valuable. They absolutely can be. It just simply means that we're refining the lawn rather than transforming it. You know, when you start a lawn that's all junky and it starts to get looking, like, really nice, we're transforming it, right? But once we get to that point, we're really starting to refine that lawn. We're get. We're replace. Maybe we get to the point where we get most of the weeds out of there, and we're trying to get some of the grasses that we don't want in there. You know, we're systematically improving it so it almost looks like a monoculture. Everything's the same shade of green. Every. All the blades are of equal size, as opposed to having, you know, some really thick, tall, fescue, not turf type. But I'm talking, like pasture grass. We're trying to get that out while maintaining a Kentucky bluegrass lawn. You know, just an example. But anyway, it's a. This is where understanding what the customer wants matters. Because if somebody wants a respectable lawn, a simple program may be perfect for them. But if somebody wants the best lawn possible, a more customized approach may be worth the investment. So, you know, over the years, I've changed the way I think about lawn care programs. You know, I don't ask how many applications should everybody customer. Should all my customers receive? Instead, I'm like, okay, what does this law need and what does this homeowner value? Because the best program isn't the one with the most steps. It's the one that solves the customer's problems. You know, with my company at Turf Tamer, that's exactly why we've developed different programs. And it's not because one customer is better than the other, but because their goals, their lawns, and their challenges are different. You know, a lot of our customers simply want a healthy lawn that with good weed control, and others want every advantage possible. And either customer is wrong. They're just buying different outcomes. So, you know, let's. I want to say this. This is going to apply to homeowners, and it applies to lawn care companies that are selling the programs. Don't get caught up in counting the applications. Count the results. You know, does the lawn look healthier? Is the weed pressure lower? Is the color better? Is the turf denser? Is the homeowner happy? That's. That's a number one right there. Those are the things that matter. And the number of visits is simply one of the tools we use to get there, you know, and a great lawn care company doesn't win because it has the longest program. It wins because it understands the lawn better and it gives the clients what they're looking for. Again, you might be going, well, that sounds great. What if, if I'm, if I could get it done in four, then why don't I do that? If I could get it done in five, why don't I do? I understand. Like, we are a business, we want to make money. I find that serving our clients to the best ability is, you know, is the goal. If you're asking how many applications do we do in our bait, in our regular package, we offer six steps for six visits. There's always ways to improve on that. But that basically gets us through the, that can get us through the entire season. Kind of. If you break it down throughout the, you know, basically April through October, you know, it works. There are some times where we have the opportunity to have, you know, the more applications, but sometimes it's again, like it's the diminishing returns. We, we could do that, but it's not as, you know, you don't, you don't see as many results. And some of the clients that we have, they just don't care as much. Now, we do have the exclusive people that are like, I want the best. I want my lawn to look like the golf course. Granted, they don't cut it as low as a golf course, but they wanted to make sure that they, when people drive past their place, they look at their lawn, you know, so for them, we, we offer, we have a more robust program where we have the seven or eight visit. And honestly, most of the time when we're. And just as a, as a, as we're selling things, we're selling our six, six step program or seven step program. Most clients don't necessarily want to get into like the ten step program where we have the fungicides and everything, because it's really not necessary, but I just want to throw that out there. So, you know, the thing is, you know, does your lawn really need a ten step program? Maybe it does, but maybe not. The better question is, what are you trying to achieve? Because a four step program has been successful for a reason. It provides something simple and an understandable solution that works for a lot of homeowners. And the thing is, though, you also have to give it credit because that's what's been ingrained in people's heads. So when they call us, a lot of times they're expecting a four step plan. They just it's like, well, why is it so many visits? Why do we have to do this? It's like, well, we're trying to solve a problem for you. You know, they just think that four bags of fertilizer a year is going to magically fix every problem that they have, whereas we know it doesn't because those systems were built to be universal. And universal means it can't perfectly address every local challenge. And again, like I said, the best lawn care programs are built around the lawn in front of you. We know what our climate is. We understand we can put our hands in the soil. We know what it's made of. We look at the grass, we talk to the homeowner and find out what their expectations are. We identify the problems we need to solve in order to make that look great. And the best lawn care companies don't build programs around the products, they build programs around people and local conditions. Because luxury isn't measured by the number of applications you receive, luxury is getting exactly the level of care that matches your goals. So I want to thank you for listening. I hope that you enjoyed today's episode. As always, God Bless. Keep pushing through and we'll catch you on the next one. Thank you once again for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please leave a review and share it with fellow business owners. Your support means the world to me and helps keep the show going strong. I want to give a special shout out to our friends at Yardbook. Their continued support has been instrumental in bringing this podcast to you week after week. If you haven't checked them out yet, visit yardbook.com and see how they can give you the tools to streamline and manage your lawn care business. Also, don't forget to explore the resources and upcoming events that I've collected here just for you in the show Notes. These are curated to help you stay ahead in your business with the latest tips, tools and networking opportunities. Whether it's a new tool, an insightful article, or an event you don't want to miss, I've got you covered. Until next time, keep pushing through and God bless. Sam.
Host: John Pajak
Podcast Focus: Actionable strategies and insights for small business owners in the green industry
Air Date: July 15, 2026
This episode dives into the debate over how elaborate (“bougie”) a lawn care program needs to be for both homeowners and green industry professionals. Host John Pajak breaks down the pros and cons of simple national programs (like the popular four-step plan found at big box stores) versus customized, locally-tailored programs. He stresses the importance of matching lawn care recommendations to customer goals, local challenges, and making smart business decisions based on results rather than selling the most applications.
No Universal Answer:
Pajak opens by challenging the notion of a single “right” lawn care program, pointing out climate, grass types, pests, and local conditions all vary widely.
“There is no one right answer. … A lawn in Florida is not going to have the same challenges as a lawn in Ohio. … Many of the most recognizable lawn care programs are designed to be sold nationally. … That’s what creates limitations.” (03:05)
Simplicity Sells, But with Limits:
Nationally marketed four-step programs work because they’re simple and broadly effective for many, but can’t address specific regional issues.
“A program designed to be sold across the entire country has to make compromises. … If it did [target local issues], it wouldn’t be a national program anymore.” (04:34)
Local Expertise is an Opportunity:
Professional lawn care companies can design programs tailored to their market, solving problems big-box solutions can’t touch.
Pajak describes how:
Diagnose Before You Prescribe:
Rather than offering standard packages off the bat, Pajak advocates understanding homeowner goals, irrigation habits, budget, and actual lawn problems first.
“You can’t prescribe the right solution until you understand the goal. Even the best lawn care companies don’t start with a package, they start with a diagnosis.” (09:58)
Not Just ‘Extra Fertilizer’:
Additional visits often mean more monitoring, timing, and proactive management—not simply “more product.”
“Those extra visits … are about adding more attention, more monitoring and better timing. … The customer is not just paying for more applications, they're paying for more management.” (11:44)
Professional vs. Calendar-based:
Professional programs are responsive, not rigid. Visits are guided by diagnosis and observation, not a fixed calendar.
“A calendar based program says here’s what to apply this time of the year; a professional program says, here’s what your lawn needs based on where you live and what we’re seeing, what we’re diagnosing.” (12:25)
The Law of Diminishing Returns:
The first few applications usually yield the biggest improvements; subsequent visits offer smaller—but important—refinements.
“Every additional application doesn’t create the same level of improvement. … The first application creates a huge improvement. … Eventually, each additional visit creates a smaller improvement than the one before it. … We call this the law of diminishing returns.” (16:55)
Focus on Outcomes, Not Number of Steps:
Success isn’t about the most steps, but about achieving client goals.
Pajak shares how his company, Turf Tamer, developed different programs to suit different customer desires and budgets.
“The best program isn’t the one with the most steps. It’s the one that solves the customer’s problems.” (20:19)
Don’t Sell More, Sell Right:
The goal isn’t to upsell the most elaborate program but to solve customer problems and create value.
“Don’t get caught up in counting the applications. Count the results. … Is the homeowner happy? That’s a number one right there.” (21:39)
Luxury = Custom Fit, Not Just More:
Pajak reframes “bougie” as customized attention, not simply piling on steps or expensive add-ons.
“Luxury isn’t measured by the number of applications you receive. Luxury is getting exactly the level of care that matches your goals.” (25:55)
Key Takeaway for Professionals & DIYers:
Build your lawn care program based on your unique goals, needs, and environment—not a generic template.
| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |---|---|---| | 03:05 | “There is no one right answer … Each region has its own challenges.” | John Pajak | | 09:58 | “Even the best lawn care companies don’t start with a package, they start with a diagnosis.” | John Pajak | | 11:44 | “The extra visits are not always about adding more fertilizer. They’re about adding more attention, more monitoring and better timing.” | John Pajak | | 16:55 | “Every additional application doesn’t create the same level of improvement … That’s the law of diminishing returns.” | John Pajak | | 20:19 | “The best program isn’t the one with the most steps. It’s the one that solves the customer’s problems.” | John Pajak | | 21:39 | “Don’t get caught up in counting the applications. Count the results.” | John Pajak | | 25:55 | “Luxury isn’t measured by the number of applications you receive. Luxury is getting exactly the level of care that matches your goals.” | John Pajak |
John Pajak emphasizes that neither the fanciest nor the simplest program is inherently superior. The best lawn care program is the one tailored to both the local environment and the customer’s individual goals. For service providers: resist the urge to oversell, focus on diagnosis and results, and create real value. For homeowners: clarify your goals and work with your provider to build a plan that truly suits your needs.
“Luxury isn’t the number of applications. It’s the care that matches your goals.” (25:55)