Profits with Pajak – Ep. #475

Episode Title: Not Enough Work to Hire… But Too Busy to Grow
Host: John Pajak
Release Date: March 18, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, John Pajak tackles a common pain point for small business owners in the green industry: being caught between not having enough consistent work to justify hiring but feeling too overwhelmed to keep growing solo. Pajak refers to this conundrum as "the messy middle of hiring," and he lays out practical, numbers-focused strategies to navigate this critical tipping point. The episode is loaded with actionable advice, personal anecdotes, and a candid look at the emotional traps business owners face during this stage of growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the "Messy Middle" of Hiring

• Tipping Point Realities:
  Pajak explains the dangerous stage where business owners are too busy to continue alone but fear they lack enough steady work to hire.
• Common Owner Responses:
  • Waiting too long to hire and risking burnout
  • Hiring too early and stressing about payroll
• Core Message:
  “The real issue isn’t hiring. It’s consistency of your production and your revenue. Because hiring is not based on how busy you feel. It’s based on whether your business can consistently produce enough money… to support another person.” (John Pajak, 02:18-02:40)

2. The Role of Numbers over Emotion

• Know Your Numbers:
  Pajak emphasizes separating emotion from decision-making:

  “If you don’t know what your production rate and your break-even hourly cost is, you’re making a hiring decision based on emotion. And I’m going to tell you this from experience, emotion is expensive.” (John Pajak, 02:41-02:54)

• Calculate True Cost:
  Don’t just look at the wage—consider total cost to the business, including equipment, overhead, and desired profit.

3. Buy Back Your Time Before Hiring

• Efficiency First:

  • Optimize scheduling, routing, and systems before defaulting to hiring.
  • Consider increasing prices to reduce workload and improve margins.
  • Sometimes improved efficiency, not more labor, is the answer.

• Quote:
  "Sometimes the solution isn’t adding labor, a lot of times it’s improving the efficiency." (John Pajak, 03:28-03:34)

4. Phased Hiring and Seasonal Help

• Part-Time or Seasonal Approach:
  • Start with part-time help or hire for peak workloads to reduce risk.
  • Use as an opportunity to test and refine training and systems before committing full-time.

  “You start with part time help… what this is good for is it allows you to test your systems… you could train without all the pressure of, you know, you could actually walk them through the jobs and everything instead of just throwing them out to the wolves.” (John Pajak, 04:08-04:28)

5. Sell The Work Before You Hire

• Build Revenue First:

  • Start marketing to fill your schedule before bringing on an employee.
  • Focus on ideal clients ("customer avatar"), efficient routing, and targeted marketing.

  "The goal is simple. We’re going to create enough revenue to support the employee before they even start, not while they’re standing next to you waiting to be paid." (John Pajak, 05:34-05:46)

6. What Signals Readiness to Hire?

• Consistently Turning Down Work:

  • Fully booked weeks in advance? Having to delay jobs? That’s a sign you’re truly ready.
  • Only then should you consider adding staff—with confidence, not desperation.

• Understand Production Expectations:

  • Employees may need to produce $75-100/hr in value, not just cover their wage.

  “If your current work can’t support that, that just means you’re not ready yet. And that’s okay, because now you know what to aim for.” (John Pajak, 07:47–07:54)

7. Avoiding Common Hiring Pitfalls

• Don’t Hire from Emotion or Urgency:

  • Desperation hiring is a recipe for stress and financial trouble.

• Minimize Inefficiency:

  • Bad routing and excess travel ("windshield time") kills profitability.

  "One of the worst feelings as an owner is when I’m sitting there, I’m writing paychecks out, and I go, man, they only got this much work done and they… worked this many hours. What happened?" (John Pajak, 09:40–09:50)

8. Action Steps for Owners

• Track Your Numbers:
  • Record your current production rate, revenue per week, job efficiency.
  • Set a target revenue number that allows for a comfortable hire.
• Improve Margins:
  • Use pricing, marketing, and better routes to grow the business intentionally.
• Stay Rational:
  • Avoid making hiring decisions in "survival mode."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emotional Decision-Making:

  “Emotion is expensive.” (02:50)

• On Efficiency:

  "Sometimes the solution isn’t adding labor, a lot of times it’s improving the efficiency." (03:28)

• On Hiring Readiness:

  "Here’s a signal that you are ready: when you are consistently turning work down." (08:00)

• On Profit per Employee:

  "That employee may need to produce 75 to $100 per hour minimum." (07:27)

• Personal Reflection:

  "I’ve walked that journey. I’ve stumbled, I’ve fallen, I’ve got back up, dusted myself off and kept moving forward." (08:49)

• On Learning the Hard Way:

  "Every time I made these decisions based solely on emotion, I really lost a lot of ground." (12:06)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:31 – Episode welcome and description of the 'messy middle'
• 02:15–03:00 – Danger of emotional, not numbers-based hiring
• 03:45–05:30 – Efficiency gains before hiring; phased, part-time hiring approach
• 05:45–06:30 – Intentional marketing and 'selling before hiring'
• 07:12–08:59 – Calculating profitability and production per employee; identifying readiness signals
• 09:30–11:10 – Watch out for inefficiency; realistic look at wasted time and its impact
• 11:30–13:04 – Summation, encouragement, and next steps for listeners

Tone & Style

John Pajak’s delivery is direct, empathetic, and numbers-driven, with a conversational, mentor-like presence. He balances anecdotal wisdom from his own journey with tactical, actionable advice—stressing the importance of clear-headed, data-based decision-making for long-term business health.

Final Thoughts

This episode arms green industry business owners with practical frameworks to navigate the awkward phase between solo operation and expanding the team. Pajak’s advice boils down to: don’t let pressure or emotion dictate key growth decisions. Instead, slow down, run the numbers, streamline operations, and build demand before you hire.

“Just make sure that the numbers support your next move. Don’t let your emotions take over, okay?” (John Pajak, 12:39)