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It's only $320. That's what he said to me. And I looked him straight in the eye and said, you're right, it's only $320. And that was the moment the entire job changed.
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Today's episode is brought to you by Yardbook, the All in one CRM for your lawn care business. And as an exclusive partner of this podcast, you can get started today and begin simplifying your business and maximizing your profits. Sign up now@yardbook.com the link is in the show notes. Time now for Profits with Paycheck, an essential podcast for you in the green industry who are looking to unlock the full potential of your business. Hosted by John Pajac, your certified financial coach, the show features in depth discussions with successful entrepreneurs, thought leaders and industry experts. Providing practical advice and proven strategies on financial planning, operations, marketing and sales. Profits with Paycheck has valuable insights and action steps that you can implement today for creating long term success. Now here's John Pajak.
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Welcome to Profits with Pajak, the podcast where we talk about business strategies and financial insights for the green industry. I'm your host, John Pajak and today I want to walk you through a situation that just happened to me out in the field. And it's one of those moments where you're standing on a property, everything looks like it should be a yes, but then it turns into a test. A test of your pricing, a test of your confidence and honestly, a test of who you are as a business owner. Because this customer wanted exactly what I do best. He just didn't want to pay my price to get it. Now here's the thing. I get a call for a full turf renovation and we're talking about a full reset. We're going to kill everything off. We're going to till the soil, we're going to go ahead and, you know, build the seed bed. You know, we're going to use a Harley rake and level everything. You know, put the right pitch in the ground. This thing is going to be nicely smooth. We're going to install new seed and we're also going to follow up with one of our long term lawn care programs. And this is not a small job. This is not a throw some seed down and hope for the best. This is a full transformation. Now here's what made this one interesting. You know, this guy was not guessing. He had already seen my work. In fact, you know, several of my clients live in his neighborhood and one that lives just a couple houses down from him, like across the Street. I had already done a full renovation for that neighbor about two, two. Two or three. Two years ago. Two years ago. This is year three now. And now that we're going into year three, that lawn is really starting to look good. I mean, it's really like this spring. I'm just surprised how well it is taking on. It's really thick, it's healthy, it's clean. It only has the grass that I planted in it. So that alone gives it a. There's a separation between a lot of the other lawns that are in the neighborhood, you know, because they have a lot of native grasses that kind of popped in when the contractors planted the stuff, you know, after the house was built and everything. So, I mean, this really does stand out. It's a great looking lawn. And this is exactly what that guy wanted, you know, so he calls me out, I walk the property and we're talking through everything and I'm thinking, all right, you know, this is going to be a slam dunk. You know, he knows the results, he trusts the process. You know, I explain it all to him and he's like, yeah, yeah, you know, I saw stuff online and you know, all these other people, you know, that I see, they're basically saying the same thing you are. And I'm like, yeah, you know, and, you know, basically he's seen the proof. Like, we're literally, you know, walking by the neighbor's house and I'm showing him some things, pointing things out that we did, and he's like, yeah, I love it, I love it, I love it. So, you know, you're thinking, you know, what could go wrong? But then, then it starts, you know, he says, yeah, you know, I've got a couple other estimates. And I think you could, you know already where this might be going. And, you know, they're a little bit cheaper. And so I ask a few questions and it comes down to this. You know, it's basically about the one company that he feels might be my competition. It was about $320 less than my bid. And that's it. Now think about that. Not thousands. It's not a massive Gap. It's $320, you know, and he keeps circling back to that, you know, and he keeps going, is there anything, any way we could bring it down a little? Can we get closer to their number? Is there anything we could take out? You know, And I'm like, and this is where most guys get really uncomfortable because, you know, $320 doesn't really feel like A big deal. It's easy to start thinking, well, maybe, maybe I could just knock a little off, or maybe I could meet him halfway, or maybe I could tweak something just to get the job. But, you know, here's what's really happening. In that moment, you're being invited to negotiate against yourself. And you know, when you think, you know, that's. I'm going to say that again. You're being invited to negotiate against yourself. And here's the thing. Then he says, it's only $320. And I paused for a second because that statement could go two ways. Most people hear that and think, yeah, it's only 320, maybe I should just give it to them. But I flipped it. I said, you're right, it's only $320. And then I pointed across the street. I said, you see that loan over there? You've been looking at it for two years. You told me yourself how much you love how it looks. You know, I did that. And if that's what you want, this is what it costs. I didn't defend my price. I didn't break down my cost. I didn't start justifying anything. I anchored everything to the result because that's what he was actually buying. Now this is where it gets even more interesting. He starts bringing things up. He saw online, you know, different grass types, different methods, and he's like, oh, hey, you know, I saw this guy recommend this and I had to stop him. I said, you know, listen, that grass may grow in our region, but it's not really going to thrive here. And that's a big difference because now we're not just talking about price anymore. We're talking about experience versus, like, you know, Internet advice. We're talking about local knowledge versus just general information and proven results versus theory. And this is where you have to stand firm. Because if you give in here, you're not just discounting your price, you're compromising the outcome. And if the outcome suffers, guess whose name's attached to it. It's yours, right? So to clarify things, I'm not, you know, I. I generally tell people, I'm like, if you want a turf tamer lawn, then this is if that's what you like. You see it. You could see it in your neighbors. You could see it. You know, a lot of times people are driving down the road and they go, man, that's a good looking lawn. Guess who signs in it? Mine. Like, if you want a turf tamer lawn, then allow me to do what I do. But before we go any further, a quick reminder. If you're struggling with pricing confidence or knowing exactly what your numbers should be, this is exactly why I created Budgets, breakevens and Bottom Lines. Because when you know your numbers, these conversations get a whole lot easier.
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Jeremiah from Elite Cuts Lawn Care recently went through the Budgets breakevens and Bottom lines workshop@johnpaycheck.com and he was blown away by it all.
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I got a 17 page report. In this report, not only do we go over my budget, what I've done in sales previously, what I'm looking to do, how I'm looking to grow, but then you talk about the nitty gritty, the things that I didn't know about, such as workman's comp, insurance. No clue. Now I have a clue. The other thing, a detailed report on every piece of equipment and how much it costs to run and how much I should be charging for it.
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After spending time with John analyzing his numbers, Jeremiah had this realization.
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I thought my prices were great and they weren't. I'm charging basically enough to break even and not pay myself a decent salary and I looking to work for free. So this whole process, you sit down with them for four or five hours and then you get this nice report and then you go over the report again so he can explain things, you can ask questions and get to know everything that is your business finances.
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If you're ready to grow your business, sign up for Budgets, breakevens and bottom lines@johnpajak.com if you don't know your numbers,
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reach out to John today.
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There's a special link in the podcast description.
- [09:20]
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Back when I was getting my lawn care business off the ground, I was juggling routes, invoices and customer notes with paper and prayers. It was chaos. Until I found Yardbook. Yardbook gave me the structure. It helped me track chemicals, route efficiently, invoice faster, and most importantly, it helped me grow a profitable business. If you're tired of duct taping your systems Together, go to yardbook.com and sign up for free. And if you're ready to go premium, use promo code paycheck to get your first 30 days on me. Getting back to the, the estimate, the, you know, the, the walkthrough here, we kind of go back and forth a little bit more. You know, same conversation, the same pressure, the same $320. And I could see this really wasn't going anywhere. So I made a decision. It wasn't based on emotion, it was not based on frustration. It was just clear And I said, I don't think I'm the right fit for what you're looking for. And I said, thank you very much, have a great day. Shook his hand and I walked away. Let's talk about that for a second. Because some people hear that and think, man, you just lost several thousand dollar job over 320 bucks. No, I protected my business over $320 because at $320 is not just money. You know, one, yes, it's my profit. It is, you know, my margin there. And it was also potentially compromising my standard. And when you do that, if you give that up once, it gets easier to give it up again and again and again until one day you wake up and realize you're working a whole lot harder for a whole lot less. Now, this was not about being stubborn. It wasn't about ego. It was about alignment. He wanted premium results. He wanted his neighbor's lawn, but he wanted a discounted path to get there. And those two things don't coexist because if he wanted that exact property like that, he wanted that lawn. There are so many things that go into it that most people don't see because it's not like a one and done thing. Besides having the proper fertilization, weed control, it also requires a lot of callbacks, you know, and that's included in my price is coming back and touching things up because I know it's not going to be perfect. It's going to. It takes two to three years for a lawn to truly get established. And you know, if he's making, if he wants to make some compromising decisions on my part, you know, oh, use this seed instead. I heard it was good. It's like, no, I don't like that seed. It's not part of what I did. Literally hundreds and hundreds of hours of research to pick the right blend for our area, find out what's good, did years of testing to find out which cultivars work best. Get the, get the beautiful look you want first and then not only that, but actually survive our cold ass winters. I mean, it's crazy anyway. If I were to compromise the quality of my seed or use something else just to try to appease him. It's not really, it's like you're not trusting me, then you're not trusting the process. You're trying to have your hand in something that you're like, oh, I see the results, I want it, I want it. Well then let me cook, let me cook. You could see I could do it let me do my thing. The only caveat is like, hey, you just got to pay me. This is, this is the price of it. Pay me. If you don't, then I'm sorry, this is not going to work out. Especially, I mean, there's, it's just so aggravating at times when you think it's going to be a slam dunk and then it turns into like, oh, I actually hit the rim and it went flying into the, you know, the half court line and somebody else picked up the, picked up the ball and ran with it. It's like, dang it, this did not go as I thought it was. But nowadays I don't get, I don't get upset about that anymore. You know, I would rather be, you know, I kind of look at those telltale signs of like, man, this is going to be difficult. If it's already hard enough just to like, this guy really wants something and we're trying to close the deal and he's already making it difficult and he wants concessions of, well, I want this different seed. And I, you know, I'm looking at this other program that you might have and I'm like, no, this is the program you should stick with because this is designed for after we install on this. Trust me. It's taken me, you know, like six years to figure this out. But anyway, getting back on track, I don't want to just rant and rave, but it's part of it, you know, but here's this thing. You, you want to sell the income and not the line items. You know, stop breaking down your price when they push back. Because that's what a lot of guys will do is if they aren't going to budge on price. But, you know, somebody's like, oh, you know, is there any way we could do it? And, you know, they immediately start going, oh, you know, my seeds, the premium. It's the blue tag, you know, blue tag label and it's, it's this and this and it costs this much. And then, you know, my, my equipment is such top of the line and this. You don't have to do that. Especially when they, they're literally every morning when they get up and they're going to work and they look and they see the gorgeous lawn across the street, they already know what the results can be. It's like, they want it, they're just not willing to pay for it. It's okay. But when it comes to, if you're trying, if somebody starts to try to negotiate with you, sell the Outcome, sell them the dream, show them the results that they can get, and that's what you're going to prove. It's a much harder thing to do when you're doing something time intensive like doing a turf renovation. Sometimes I wish I could just sell Rolexes or something because it's easier. In my opinion, it's way easier because it's like, oh, you want this watch? Oh, look, here we go, we've got this Rolex or this Rolex, you know, what are you willing to spend they don't have? It's like instant gratification. That's what this world is all about nowadays. You know, a lot of people don't have the patience to wait things out for something beautiful to be created. But anyway, regardless, when there is competition, there's trying to be a negotiation in the price, bring them back to the result that they said that they wanted. And the other thing is, don't volunteer discounts. If they haven't justified a lower price, you have no reason to offer one. Silence is a very powerful tool and I suggest you use it. And another tip that I could give you is be willing to walk. You know, the strongest position in any sale is the willingness to lose it because that's when you stop chasing things and you start choosing. And I chose to say, no, I'm not gonna, I know it's not that much money, but in the, in the bigger spectrum. But no, I'm not going to compromise that. And again, I think that there are some red flags in that, that whole situation that I was like, yeah, this is going to be one of those tricky ones. I did several Years ago in 2019, I did a renovation and it was a partial renovation. And I explained to the homeowner, I said, listen, the, the, where you are having difficulty with growing grass is mainly because of the tree cover that you have in your lawn. I said my recommendation is not just to plant new grass seed in these areas, but is to also thin out the canopy of your trees. And I look up and I'm pointing out some areas and I even recommended a very good arborist in, in our area, they're very well known, they do quality work. Long story short, he didn't do that. He said that was too expensive and just told me he wanted to go through with the renovation. So I planted the appropriate grasses. You know, some very shade tolerant things. They're not, they're not like Kentucky bluegrass or anything, but they're, they fare well in the, in the shade in our area. And it did come up pretty nice. But it wasn't to his liking. And even before the first season had ended, he was just so upset about it. I'm like, I told you it's going to take two to three years for this to really, really fill in, you know, but you're still going to be combating this because of the. The COVID that you have from the shade. Anyway, I should have. If I knew now what I knew then or what I know now, you know what, however that saying goes, if I would have known that beforehand, I would not have taken the job because it caused nothing but misery for me because this guy turned into such a jerk and was not willing to hear anything that I was telling him. I went back there several times to reseed some areas and, you know, got things going again. But then he would always sabotage it. You know, it was. And then he'd blame me for it. You know, one of the things he was doing was mowing way too short, mowing too early. And what I mean by early is the grass didn't really get established in some areas, and he kept going over it with the lawnmower, and it really kind of messed things up. And then on top of that, the areas that he did do very well, like, they were actually gorgeous in the front lawn. He decided to have a party and, you know, set up tents and inflatable stuff and left them there for like a full week. And then, you know what happens when you leave a inflatable thing? I don't know, a play set on the grass for too long. It kills, you know, really, kind of kills the grass a bit. But he. He thought that. That. That was my fault. And I'm like, this is the exact same size as the inflatable slide thing that you had parked here for a week. I'm like, that. That damage is not on me. That is due to your negligence. And he blew up on me. I. It was such a nightmare. So anyway, I was not going to deal with that type of thing again. And I kind of saw those vibes with this guy, and again, I wasn't mad. I wasn't frustrated. I didn't let it go or, you know, I didn't, like, let it get to me. I just handled it. And when things got too much, I'm like, you know what? It's okay. I don't need this job. I really don't. I don't need any jobs. I mean, you might go, you're crazy. I'm like, well, yeah, I get it. I gotta feed my family and everything. But I could do that. I don't necessarily need this frustration. So bottom line is, it was never about the $320. It was about what that $320 represented. So you know your confidence, your experience, your standards, your profits. If you give that away, you're not just closing a deal, you're setting a precedent. So the next time someone pushes back on you on price, don't react, don't panic, don't discount. Just pause and ask yourself, am I about to protect my business or am I slowly giving it away? So if this is home for you, do me a favor. Share this episode with someone in the industry who needs to hear it, because too many good operators are undercharging for great work. So, as always, God bless, Keep pushing through and we'll catch you on the next one. Thank you once again for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please leave a review and share it with fellow business owners. Your support means the world to me and helps keep the show going strong. I want to give a special shout out to our friends at Yardbook. Their continued support has been instrumental in bringing this podcast to you week after week. If you haven't checked them out yet, visit yardbook.com and see how they can give you the tools to streamline and manage your lawn care business. Also, don't forget to explore the resources and upcoming events that I've collected just for you in the show Notes. These are curated to help you stay ahead in your business with the latest tips, tools and networking opportunities. Whether it's a new tool, an insightful article, or an event you don't want to miss, I've got you covered. Until next time, keep pushing through and God bless. Ra.