Your Business Should Serve You: Making Your Company Exit-Ready with Dennis Hering Ep. #529

Summary

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Profits with Pajak Episode #529

Title: Your Business Should Serve You: Making Your Company Exit-Ready with Dennis Hering
Host: John Pajak
Guest: Dennis Hering, The Advisory Investment Bank
Date: July 29, 2026
Location: Lawn and Landscape Technology Conference, Scottsdale, Arizona

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, John Pajak sits down with Dennis Hering of The Advisory Investment Bank to dive deep into a crucial but often-overlooked topic: setting your business up so that it can not only run without you but also be exit-ready, whether you plan to sell now, in the distant future, or never at all. While the context is the green industry, the wisdom applies to business owners everywhere. The episode is a practical masterclass in both strategic and mindset shifts that unlock freedom, legacy, and maximum business value—plus, it’s packed with candid stories, memorable analogies, and plenty of laughs.

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Key Points & Insights

1. Understanding True Business Value

• Tangible assets vs. true value:
  Owners often think their equipment and "cool toys" are what makes their business valuable, but Dennis clarifies, “The true value in a company... comes from, one, how much recurring revenue is there... but it's also, do you really have a business that you own that you can step away from and it still operates and runs, or are you required to be involved in it for it to keep running?” (04:39, Dennis)
• Systems and recurring revenue are king—buyers want a business, not a job.

2. Building an Exit-Ready Company from Day One

• “If you start to run your business like you’re going to sell it... your business is going to become more valuable because you’re going to think about things differently.” (06:39, John)
• Even if sale isn’t on your radar, running a business like it’s for sale leads to better systems, a stronger team, happier customers, and true freedom.

3. Owner Independence = Higher Multiples

• The most attractive companies are those where the owner can leave for weeks and the business runs smoothly.
  “I've spoken to numerous owners... both making $10 million in revenue, but one is way more involved than necessary. The other isn’t—he’s just taking his third vacation of the month. Well, that one’s a lot more attractive...” (05:16, Dennis)
• Creating an executive team and delegating is essential.

4. Legacy: Your Business as a Family Asset

• Even for owners never looking to sell, treat your business as a legacy.
  “Imagine... you can say, I want to go to Guadalajara for a week this week, next month, let's go to Cancun... because you flipping can. Because you're not tied to your business—you've built an organization where it doesn't need you anymore.” (09:05, Dennis)
• It’s about freedom of time and choice for you and your family, whether or not you ever exit.

5. Lessons from Failure: What NOT to Do

• John shares a nightmare story of a business owner with a barn full of well-used equipment and no contracts—he thought he’d retire rich, but “they evaluated his business at like $50,000... that was the true value.” (24:00, John)
• No systems, no contracts, and owner dependence = little or no value, regardless of years of hard work.

6. Hats, Delegation, and Buying Back Time

• “Now instead of wearing 34 hats, I've got it down to like four hats... And that doesn't mean I hired 30 different people... just giving that responsibility to other people.” (18:05, John)
• Outsourcing and trusting others—even if uncomfortable—creates time and greater long-term profit. “Buying my time back... he can do it way better than I can.” (19:04, John)

7. ROI of Delegation

• “Which tasks create the least dollar value back for [the owner]? And that if he were to give that up and invest that back in the business, he can put his time towards something that gives a greater dollar value return.” (20:46, Dennis referencing Alex Hormozi)
• The more you invest in your team and systems, the more valuable and sustainable your company becomes.

8. Branding, Culture, and Customer Loyalty

• John’s unique, “hug culture” with clients demonstrates the intangible value of customer loyalty, which also factors into business value. “I didn’t know it was OK... when customers give you a hug... I really always thought that that was just totally normal.” (30:51, John)
• Exceptional service and relationships mean your customer base has real, defensible value beyond equipment and contracts.

9. Continuous Improvement: Are You Progressing or Repeating?

• “Are you just counting down each month until the new year hits?” (44:32, Dennis)
• Always be leveling up—as you grow, so does the value and freedom your business brings.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On true business ownership:
  “You should own your business, and your business shouldn’t own you.”
  (10:47 & 13:41, John)

• On the pain and reward of delegation:
  “It’s a little painful, you know, because at first when you’re doing it, you’re like, I need this money. But then you’re like, ‘I’m going to part with this money to make it a little bit easier’... but after a little bit, it just takes a little bit of time and it’s like, well, that’s not so bad. And I actually kind of like this.”
  (19:47, John)

• On small vs. big business (Cash Flow Quadrants):
  “A big business owner is just the concept of, you can step back any time because you’ve built a team that can run it equally as good as you or better.”
  (15:02, Dennis)

• On infinity of money vs. time:
  “Money is infinite. Time is not.”
  (23:22, John)

• Nightmare story - the high cost of being unprepared:
  “He worked his whole life and he really didn’t...the business was only probably $50K, you know...with 50K he just signed it and kicked it away.”
  (25:50, John)

• Culture and customer connection:
  “If there’s anything like customer success, I mean, I’m pretty sure that’s like the pinnacle...getting a hug.”
  (35:32, Dennis)

• On living the same year versus progress:
  “When it comes to living a decade, do you really live a decade and progress, or are you just simply reliving the same year 10 times and calling it a decade?”
  (44:32, Dennis)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Content | |----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:02 | Episode and Dennis’ role introduction | | 04:12–06:17 | What truly drives business value; recurring revenue, owner independence | | 09:05 | Building a legacy and why freedom of time matters, even if you never sell | | 14:46 | Cash Flow Quadrants: Employee vs. business owner | | 18:05 | “Hats” analogy, delegation, buying time back | | 24:00–26:08 | John’s nightmare story: why systems matter for exit value | | 30:41 | Fanatical customers: why relationship capital boosts business value | | 35:32 | The importance of culture: “customer success = customer hugs” | | 44:32 | Living a decade vs living a single year ten times | | 47:26–48:43 | Business valuation realities: most owners undervalue or overvalue—test the market | | 50:18 | How to contact Dennis for questions or market testing | | 51:49 | Key takeaway: Run your business as if you’re going to sell—even if you don’t plan to | | 52:08 | Buying back time and improving quality of life |

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How to Connect with the Guest

• Dennis Hering - The Advisory Investment Bank
  • Email: [e-mail]
  • Cell/Text: 919-612-9445 (Reference “Payjak Podcast” in your message)

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Actionable Takeaways

• Run your business as if you plan to sell it, whether or not you do.
• Delegate, systematize, and build an executive team to create a business that thrives without you.
• Don’t let all value be tied to equipment or you personally—prioritize recurring revenue, contracts, and customer loyalty.
• Test the market: You might be surprised at what your business is worth.
• Prioritize your freedom: The best business is one that serves YOU—not the other way around.

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“Your business should serve you, not own you.” — John Pajak (10:47)

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For more strategic insights for your green industry business, subscribe to Profits with Pajak and check the show notes for additional resources.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

Today's episode is brought to you by Yardbook, the All in one CRM for your lawn care business. And as an exclusive partner of this podcast, you can get started today and begin simplifying your business and maximizing your profits. Sign up [e-mail] the link is in. The show notes time now for profits with PayJack, an essential podcast for you in the green industry who are looking to unlock the full potential of your business. Hosted by John Pajak, your certified financial coach, the show features in depth discussions with successful entrepreneurs, thought leaders and industry experts, providing practical advice and proven strategies on financial planning, operations, marketing and sales. Profits with Paycheck has valuable insights and action steps that you can implement today for creating long term success. Now, here's John Paycheck.

[John Pajak]

Welcome to Profits of Paycheck, the podcast where we talk about business strategies and financial insights for the green industry. We're here today at the Lawn and Landscape Technology Conference here in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona. With me right now, we've got Dennis Herring. He's with the advisory investment bank and he's going to talk about something that's a little bit more niche. We're going to, you know, it's not exactly like, hey, this is how you make your business more profitable, but, you know, we're gonna, I think we're gonna talk a little bit about like the end game.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

You know, what do you do if maybe you're at that point in your career that you just say, you know what, I'm just, I'm gonna, I want to get out of this. I want to retire. Maybe it's retirement. Maybe it's, maybe you're 25 and you just built a banger of a business.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

You just want to cash out on it. So, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna go down some little rabbit holes here.

[Dennis Herring]

It's like last time, there's just a, just a new tangent talk.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Tangent with Paycheck. So, Dennis, thanks for being here. I know I've been putting you off all day. Dennis has been, he was contacting me before the show and I was like, yes, we're gonna, we're gonna see each other again.

[Dennis Herring]

It's gonna be great.

[John Pajak]

We had a great show last time. About a year ago when we did, we met at the, in Las Vegas at the same show, the tech show, and had a great conversation and said, let's do it again, let's do it again. Let's catch lightning in a bottle twice.

[Dennis Herring]

Exactly.

[John Pajak]

So, Dennis, if you could just go ahead and tell Give us a quick synopsis. You don't have to go into, you know, tell us your whole, you know, hero story, but, you know, just let people know who you are a little bit.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, to keep it simple, the advisory investment bank. We're basically a. We help owners exit their businesses. So when an owner is at a place where they're trying to figure out what that next step is, whether it's due to unfortunate reasons or just the fact that they've built a killer company and they want to capitalize on that, we help them navigate that process. We usually run a standard process. Runs will typically run six to eight months, but that encompasses everything from building their. Their what we call a sim. It's a confidential information memorandum is the technical term. It's basically just a fancy vocal part of the business that we show buyers in the market. And we are becoming more known for creating bid wars against the private equity firms. They will send us ideas of what they might pay for a company. We pick our top favorite, 10, 12, whatever the number is, and then the owner meets with them. And ultimately our goal is to find the creme de la creme of the buyers, push them against each other as much as possible, and drive that value up as much as we can to make sure an owner actually gets what the company should be worth versus, like any of us going to a grocery store trying to find the best deal, trying to find the best sale. Like that's what all these guys are trying to do too. So everyone is always trying to find somebody on sale or get something on discount. So our goal is to make sure owners get what they've worked decades to, to build, and that they receive the, the value out of that.

[John Pajak]

Now, I know a lot of us, you know, we, we look at our business and we go, well, it's worth a lot. I got all this equipment, I got, you know, I got all the cool toys I ever wanted, and I got this and that. But I think it's going to shock some people when all the toys that you have doesn't really mean that your company is valuable, especially maybe valued at what you think is going to happen.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct. It's, it's, it's not that it doesn't tie into the value, but the true value in a company, really, if you think about it, comes from one, how much recurring revenue is there? Like how, how much, how much can you, how, how can you forecast what your revenue is going to be? But it's also, do you really have a business that you own that you can step away from any given day and it still operates and runs, or are you required to be involved in it for it to keep running? Because the biggest mistake owners make is they don't think about I eventually, if I want to step back, I need to be able to say I can leave and things don't collapse. And that's the biggest issue every owner has is they don't know how to hire the right people. Maybe they maybe don't have the systems in place they need to have. So the biggest thing I tell owners is regardless of what your revenue numbers or profit numbers are, how long can you step away before things start to hit the fan? And I've spoken to numerous owners who both can, let's say they can, they're both making 10 million in revenue, but one is way more involved than necessary. The other one isn't, he's just taking his third vacation of the month. Well, that one's a lot more attractive because the buyer can see, oh, this owner isn't needed. He has a well oiled machine he's running. And that's one of the biggest factors when it comes to owners getting the highest value to their company and the highest multiple is how involved do you have to be? That that's one of the biggest questions that they ask on calls is how involved do you have to be?

[John Pajak]

Yeah, exactly. And this is, this is why I wanted to have Dennis on. Not because, you know, maybe you're listening to this and you're like, I'm not going to sell, I'm not going to do this. But I'm going to tell you a little secret. If you start out early, even if you've been in business for a while, you've been established, but if you start to run your business.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

Like you're going to sell it.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

If you could, if you could do that, I can almost guarantee that your business is going to become more valuable because you're going to start doing, you're going to think about things differently. You're not going to think about, like a lot of us always think about equipment and we think about all the cool stuff that we're going to buy. As far as like, oh, I'm going to get this, I'm going to get this truck with these.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. All the cool new toys. You can get the new, like little techy stuff in the trucks. Like, and those are all great.

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

Right.

[Dennis Herring]

And we don't, and I'm not sitting here trying to convince guys, hey, you should look at selling it's more what we exist for the owners who know that's coming in their future, and we want to make sure that they know how to best set themselves up for that result. That's ultimately it. Like the way with how heavily involved private equity has gotten in these industries across all kinds of essential services. Our biggest focus right now is how can we help owners just understand how this process works. And if it ever was to come up, you're not going to hear me call you and say, hey, you should consider selling. This is you've built your life around this like that. That would be extremely, one, irresponsible, but two, very insensitive of me.

[John Pajak]

Exactly.

[Dennis Herring]

Number the focus is, hey, if you're curious to learn, I'm happy to talk you through how it works, what they look for, what ties into a higher opportunity versus a lower one. But ultimately, we're here for the owners who know this is the step that they want to take. And we'll make sure we capitalize on what you've built.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, and just to be clear, Dennis, if you called me and I didn't really know what you did and you said, I think you should sell your business, I would punch you in the face. I would find you and I would be like, hey, yeah, you know what, let's talk for breakfast or something. And. And you're going to get a knuckle sandwich for, you know, maybe, maybe, you know, maybe one with a size, with

[Dennis Herring]

a side of smackdown, a little bit

[John Pajak]

of smackdown, a can of whoop ass. You know, we're going to just give you, we're going to tune you up a little. The thing is, it's not about that. I think not only, you know, the service that you provide as a guide to help the business get through a sale. I don't know if you've ever really thought about it in the way that I want to phrase this, but the way if you could also educate those that don't have that in their mind at all how they could really make a business that's truly going to make a difference as a legacy.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, you're so right. I mean, the benefits of owning a business is great if you want to exit, but even if you don't want to exit, I mean, imagine if an owner listening can put themselves in these shoes. You built yourself a business where you've got, let's say, your own executive team of three to four people. They know how to run the business. And you can say, I want to go to Guadalajara for a week this week, next month, let's go to Cancun. The following month, let's go to Orlando. Why? Because you flipping can. Because you're not tied to your business, you've legitimately built an organization where it doesn't need you anymore. If anything, you're working your way into actual financial independence because you're no longer needed for the cash flow that you're building now. If you get to a point where maybe the family doesn't want to take over in the future, you're still trying to figure out whether you want to shut things down or how you can move on from it. Okay, then we can discuss what does an exit to a private equity firm look like and make sure you get what's valuable there. But even if not, build yourself a business that truly is a. You own a business. You aren't needed anymore. You are able to literally go on whatever trip you want to and not be bothered by something broke here. We need you back in the office. Hey, this is. This went haywire. Can you come in tomorrow? Like, you're not needed? Because you've built leaders in your company that can run the ship you started to build, and now they've built it. They know how to sail it. They can keep going. You can literally just watch it keep scaling and know I've built a family legacy from scratch, and that's. I can genuinely. I have my time back.

[John Pajak]

And again, it's. Your business should take care of you. Correct. You should own your business, and your business shouldn't own you.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

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[John Pajak]

Hey, guys, John Pajak here. Equip Expo is the biggest event in the green industry. So let's do some quick math. Today, Equip Expo's registration is $30 with promo code PAYJACK. That gets cut in half, so your ticket's only $15. But if you keep waiting, the price is going to continue to go up until you're looking at $120 for a ticket. So the question isn't whether you're going to Equip Expo. The question is whether you're going to pay $15 or $120. Now, I've attended Equip for years. I've hosted on Pod Row, I've emceed the morning show, and every year I leave with new ideas, new friendships and new opportunities. So go to equipexpo.com, use promo code, paycheck and lock in the lowest price before it goes up. Links in the show notes

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

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[John Pajak]

You should own your business and your business shouldn't own you.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

You know, that, that's a, that's a something that I think needs to be super clear and clarified because a lot of us, you know, you know, it happened to me, you know, a long time ago, I was at the point where I thought I was like, I'm going to start this business. It's going to be great. We're going to, I'm going to have so much freedom.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

You know, that for me freedom was a big thing, being able to do whatever I wanted to. And then it became more of a trap in a sense. You know, it's like I can't, I couldn't separate myself from the business. It's like whenever, even when I was like a solo operator, we. Yeah, it's like whenever I would refer to the business. Yeah, we do this and that. It's like, who's this we? Like, I'd have to, you know, my wife's like, who's this we like, it's just you and like you don't have an office staff, you don't have guys like what are you talking about? And it's like, but the business, it's me and the business.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And she's like, you are the business. And I'm like, yeah, it's we.

[Dennis Herring]

No, no, it's one of the best books I ever read was, was one called the Cash Flow Quadrants. It was by Robert Kiyosaki and it was a book that basically discusses the concept of. He broke it down into four quadrants. Employee, small business, big business and investor. And the big distinction he made is most owners don't know how to from small business to big business, which simply means small business is another version for self employed. If you don't work on the business, it's not going to make you money. And a lot of the owners in the, in these industries especially what like in the landscaping and like pest space, like a lot of the guys, they just don't trust that the people outside of them can get the job done as well as they can. Or it may be, and this may be a little bit more aggressive for some of the listeners. But on the other hand too, maybe they haven't taken the time to develop the executive team that they need to be able to say, hey, I trust you can do the job just as well as I can or better. I'm able to step back now. They're all still small business owners, still self employed technically because if they don't work, the quality of work is going to drop severely, which means income is going to drop severely. A big business owner is just the concept of you can step back any time because you've built a team that can run it equally as good as you or better, which typically you want better so you can scale bigger.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Again, you know, if you're listening to this and you think, well, it must be nice to take vacations. But yeah, it is nice to take vacations. But you know what also is really nice and something that I enjoy currently is the fact, yes, I am on vacation in a sense. You know, part of this trip here, the first half, I took my family to the Grand Canyon.

[Dennis Herring]

Beautiful.

[John Pajak]

And we went to Sedona, we did amazing. You know, we, we spread my mother in law's ashes and things like that.

[Dennis Herring]

So I'm sorry to hear that. But that's also a beautiful memory.

[John Pajak]

It's a beautiful thing. You know, like we, it's, it's okay, but. And then I, you know, daddy's got to go to work. You know, we do the podcast and of course it's still enjoyable for me.

[Dennis Herring]

Sure.

[John Pajak]

I'm doing what I want. But the other thing is, it's like I'm not on vacation all the time. There's days when I just want to be. I'm at home.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

I want to spend time with my family. Guess what? It's been summer break. My business is running itself essentially to where I don't have to. I will show up as needed if I need to.

[Dennis Herring]

Sure.

[John Pajak]

Sometimes I just show up just to surprise the guys and I'm like, hey, I brought you your favorite bagel sandwich. I'm your best boss. You know, not being a jerk about it, but like, you know, I'll just meet up with them or whatever and then the rest of my day if. And I don't even have to do it, but I choose to do it and then the rest of the day, because my daughter has been off. She's not in camp this year. She's been at home. I can spend the whole day with my daughter. And it's been great.

[Dennis Herring]

You've just given yourself freedom of time because you've built a business that doesn't require you anymore.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. And of course, I'm still not 100% there.

[Dennis Herring]

Sure.

[John Pajak]

Because I still have my finger in the business to where there are still certain duties that they do need me for.

[Dennis Herring]

Sure.

[John Pajak]

But now instead of wearing, you know, 34 hats, I've got it down to like four hats.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

I dump 30 hats off. Okay.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. Which is a huge step in the right direction, which many guys might not have been able to do yet.

[John Pajak]

And that doesn't mean I hired 30 different people.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

But what it is, is I, you know, taking. Just giving that responsibility to other people, whether they're a direct hire or someone that's on our team but is not exactly a nine to fiver. You know, like an example, like our accountant, you know, he doesn't. He's not on the payroll or anything like that. We pay him, you know, quarterly or whatever. I forgot, you know, it's. It's off my plate and I'm like, I'll trade these money coupons, this paper that everybody wants.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

I will go. Okay. This much and you get. And you're going to take. Okay, perfect.

[Dennis Herring]

Great.

[John Pajak]

And buying my time back you know, he wants to do this great. He could do it way better than I can.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. You're almost talking about this concept, like literally of buying back your time where many people, what I've learned is they want to have all of the funds, but also the time. But initially, you have to be willing to give up the cash you're making to some degree to be able to create the team you want. Whether it's outsourcing it, whether it's hiring somebody, whether it's giving a little bit of a raise to somebody who's just doing a killer job. You have to be willing to sow back into the business to be able to establish the business you really want to have. And ultimately, that's what pays you back in the end, is the more you sow into it, the more you're going to get out of it long term.

[John Pajak]

That is so spot on, man. Because I'm going to tell you from personal experience. So if you're listening to this, this is, you know, stuff that I go through. We, you know, literally have. It's a little painful, you know, because at first when you're doing it, you're like, I need this money.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

But then you're like, I'm going to part with this money to make it a little bit easier. And at first it's like, oh, maybe I should just take that back. Maybe I'd at least have the money.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

But then after a little bit, it just takes a little bit of time and it's like, well, that's not so bad. And I actually kind of like this. It's worth it.

[Dennis Herring]

It's like this. I heard this. Are you familiar with a guy named Alex Sharmozi by chance?

[John Pajak]

Yeah, I see him on the ads all the time.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, sure.

[John Pajak]

I actually know a guy that it went to. They, they had the same mentor.

[Dennis Herring]

Oh, cool.

[John Pajak]

So it's really cool they went to the same stuff. So very cool.

[Dennis Herring]

So simply put, he, he discussed a concept a while back. Because I'm also serial entrepreneur myself. I love having side hustles, love developing different business ideas, etc. One of the things he talked about at one point was the. One of the most crucial decisions that owner can make is deciding which. Which tasks create the least dollar value back for him. And that if he were to give that up and invest that back in the business, he can put his time towards something that gives a greater dollar value return to him. So it's just basically saying like, just. Just for the simplicity of an explanation, if an accountant costs you $100 a month. But if you give up, if you have that time back from doing that math, you can put that time back to getting three more clients that pay you back. $300 a month with $100 is a good investment because it gave you a 3x return. And so it's just thinking about them from the perspective of, is my time going where it gives me the greatest roi? And if it's not, I need to reevaluate where it's going, because that's how you scale the business. That's how you focus on maximizing your own time ROI to ultimately create a true business, whether it's for acquisition at some point or whether it's just to have the time you want to have back. You get to have that time back because you chose to trade it for something else short term, and they gave you an even bigger ROI on the back end.

[John Pajak]

And again, one of my mentors has said pretty much the same thing. In a sense, Joshua Latimer. Got to give him some love. He's a great guy, wonderful family. And if you haven't heard of Frapp, you will. But, you know, that took me a long time to get comfortable with. And I know that if it was uncomfortable for me, then it's gotta be uncomfortable for others, you know? But I could, I could assure you that over time, it gets easier. It gets. It's like, this is cool because I'm actually making more money.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And now I'm like, well, how much is it going to cost me to give you? How much money do you want? And it's going to give me some more time. Okay. That's worth it.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[John Pajak]

And as time goes by, it's like, it kind of. It's kind of fun because it's like, well, how much money can I give up? Because really, don't get me wrong, like, okay, I know money is a tool. It is only a tool to me. It's not. It's not the point.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

It's what you could do with the money.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

You know?

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

And the thing, the great thing about our economy, great thing about capitalism, is that you could seriously, like, the money is infinite.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

Time is not.

[Dennis Herring]

It's just about creating it again.

[John Pajak]

Yeah. And once you get good at creating and, you know, being able to attract that money.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

Whether it be a service business or, you know, maybe again, you, you like, what we're talking about right now is, is getting your business to where it's not a hobby anymore or it's not just it 100% relies on you when you could build it to the point where, like you said, it, it doesn't require as much input from you.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

That's when it's truly valuable.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Pajak]

I have a nightmare story if. Do you mind hearing it?

[Dennis Herring]

Go for it. Go for it.

[John Pajak]

So there was a gentleman.

[Dennis Herring]

I'll be calling you later if I get a nightmare.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, yeah, this is a nightmare story. And one of my coaching clients, this, he was on the other side of it. He was actually purchasing a company.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay, got it.

[John Pajak]

This gentleman was. They had a mediator and everything and he wanted to retire and move to Florida. You know, the American dream type thing. You know, the old school American dream. Like I'm going to sell my business, go to Florida and sit on a beach and drink tiki bar juices or something. All you know, like, you know, that was the kind of like old school way that he, this guy was thinking, he thought he was going to sell it for like, you know, over a million dollars. Turns out the only thing he really had was a bunch of handshake deals, a barn full of equipment that was pretty well used. I mean it's well maintained and everything. But you know, is it worth 500? It's like you could go buy all that stuff for like 200k and BE. Have brand new stuff. Correct. So it's not even worth, it's not even worth that. And then again there, because he did have recurring revenue, but he didn't have contracts or anything like that. And all of his billing went through him and all, everything went through this gentleman.

[Dennis Herring]

Ran through him.

[John Pajak]

So they basically the mediator. Now, he didn't have to make a decision on this, but he said they evaluated his business at like 50,000. That's what it was. The true value of it was. And the guy that I knew on his side, he was just, he kind of felt really bad for the guy. But the old man just said, you know what? And he just signed it and kicked it away just to get the 50K.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And it's like, how terrible is that? This man worked his whole life.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And he really didn't. And honestly, I mean, I, you know, looking at it from a numbers perspective, I'm like, yeah, really? The business was only probably being gracious.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

With 50K, you know, I mean, to

[Dennis Herring]

your point, like you do feel bad for the guy because he worked his whole life to only receive that the. But to your point also, that's the position that many owners are in. Handshake deals they are the bottleneck for most things when it comes to actually exiting. It's not exit ready because there's no system established. There's no team established. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's the whole saying of chucking the truck. It's just him. He's, he's doing it. Even if he has people, even if he has teams, if he has even, even has handshake contracts, they're not paper, they're not written down, they're not established. Even if he has a team of people that's working with him, if he steps away and they aren't authorized or trained to do more, there is no worth there. And it's really sad because many owners aren't aware of that. Or let's even say you never know what the future can hold. Health complications could come up and owners have to step back and be done, but they have no plan for who's next. And maybe they were thinking a son or a daughter could take it over, over, but maybe they don't want to anymore. Now the owner's stuck. They're not sure what to do. And that's why I try to implore every owner I get to meet, anyone I shake a hand with, it's, hey, build it like you're going to exit. You don't have to exit, but build it like you will, because you never know when you might need to do that instead and capitalize on what you've built.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. I mean, again, yeah, we think, you know, a lot of times I think, we think we're going to live forever and we're not going to health. You know, health issues pop up all the time. You know, we're like, oh, we're, we're tough. We will get through it. You know, some of the big things that really kind of motivated me besides, you know, having a family, like when I started my business.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

I didn't name it, you know, Paycheck's Lawn Care, John's Lawn Care, Johnny Boy Lawn Care. Like my first business.

[Dennis Herring]

Johnny Boy.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, it was Johnny Boy, you know, Johnny Boy Lawn Care did not survive. That was my very first business. It just, just, it was a failure.

[Dennis Herring]

So cute.

[John Pajak]

Thanks. It's so cute that you got this little business here. Oh, no, you failed. It's okay. You just go back to work. Okay. Yeah, but, you know, the, the, the big thing for me, too is I didn't name my, you know, business after myself because I thought, well, maybe if I ever wanted to sell it, I don't want it directly tied to me. You know, it'd be weird to have paycheck lawn care and not a paycheck in sight, you know?

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

But the other thing is, you know, I started having, you know, I don't know if you. Have you ever experienced gout? It's horrible. So when I started having those gout flare ups, I got it under control now.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

Pineapple, people. Pineapple. Every day, just eat pineapple. Okay. Bromaline hell has been helping me, so I haven't had a go flare up in a while, so knock on wood, you know, But.

[Dennis Herring]

Oh, yeah.

[John Pajak]

You know, but anyway, long story short, you know, I can't. I couldn't function. I couldn't literally. Like, I could. I could call in work, sure. But, you know, if it came down to actually functioning, I couldn't. I couldn't do it.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And that's why it's like that. That really kind of pushed me into almost like, forcing me to delegate and to improve, turn my business into a true business. And again, I don't have at this moment right now, unless I had some amazing offer, I don't know if I could. If I would sell it. But sometimes I. There's days when you go, I'm gonna sell.

[Dennis Herring]

If only you're talking to somebody who really knew what to do.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Like, I don't know, maybe. Maybe I should give my friend Dennis a call and be like, dude, should I sell this thing? Or what? You know? But, you know, there's still part of me that the pride comes in where you're just like, I can't sell this. You know? But again, let's go back. I want to make sure that if I ever did, if I was ever forced to do it, if my family was ever into the point, not just like, hey, we closed up shop, and poof, everything got liquidated in an auction.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

It's like, no, there's. I want to build a business that actually has true value sitting in it. Not because of equipment, not because of, you know, hey, we got a really cool shop and everything. No, the recurring revenue, the customer base that we have. We have fanatical customers.

[Dennis Herring]

I remember you telling me that last recording. I was just purely enjoying hearing, like, you just discussing the passion you have just for the customers that you have.

[John Pajak]

You know, the. The other thing is, too. It's like, I didn't know it was okay. I did not know that when customers give you a hug and are open the door and are really excited to see you, I didn't Know that that was odd. Okay. I really always thought that that was just totally normal. And when I tr. You know, like, I gave. Like, when we shut down our mowing division, I gave a local guy. I didn't sell it to him. I just gave him, like, our. My legacy clients that were just mowing. And he brought it to my attention. And he was. You know, his name's Joshua. He's a good kid, but he. He was like, I went around. We took a Saturday. I called all my clients, I said, listen, I'm going to show you my replacement. He's going to take over. You know, blah, blah, blah.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Pajak]

And we. We met with every single one of my clients that was left.

[Dennis Herring]

That's amazing.

[John Pajak]

Every single one of them open the door, gives me a hug. So happy to see me. Giving me. Do you want. You want to drink? You need a drink over here, you know, it's fun, you know?

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And then it wasn't until, like, I don't know, the. The 11th or 12th stop that we made, which was actually really nice because they were all tight. So it's like, actually maybe like, three car trips, and that was it, because they're so tight.

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

Love that.

[John Pajak]

But, you know, it was like the 12th person that came out. It almost like a block party at one point in time because, like, everybody came out, they're like, hey, are you. You're stopping by? I'm like, yeah, this is the new guy. And everybody's hugging me and everything. And, like, this is. You know, I'm introducing him to, like, six people at a time. And he's like, I don't know. How do you remember everybody's name? I'm like, I just do, you know?

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. I mean, they've been helping pay your bills for the last decade. You're gonna know who they are, right?

[John Pajak]

And I'm like, He's like, how long have you had these people? I'm like, well, I've only had them for, like, two seasons. He's like, what? You know, so he brings it up, and he goes, you know, it's like the 11th, 12th couple that we were there that I introduced him to. He's like, how. How do you make your clients do that? And I go, what? They gave you hugs? They were happy to see you. I'm like, because we treat them right. Like, I don't know. Like, don't your people hug you? He's like, no. I'm like, oh, sucks for you. Yeah, you suck. I didn't say that to him, but

[Dennis Herring]

I'm Like, I would have. I would have paid to watch you say that.

[John Pajak]

Oh, yeah.

[Dennis Herring]

You know, you must just suc. You don't get hugs.

[John Pajak]

It's like you cr. I crushed your little soul. You don't get hugs. You suck. You, like, you have to step up your game, dude. Yeah, dude, you gotta. You gotta get those numbers up, man. You know, at least four hugs a day. I mean, that's all, you know, anytime I make a stop, if they're home, they're coming, they're running out that door, you know, they're.

[Dennis Herring]

If not, I'm running at them. Giving.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, exactly. I saw him in the lawn the other day. I tackled him. I firm down on the ground, like,

[Dennis Herring]

get over here, Jerome.

[John Pajak]

You know, I love you, man.

[Dennis Herring]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Pajak]

But, you know, it's just. Again, I guess we built such a nice culture and I didn't mean. I didn't really have.

[Dennis Herring]

You didn't have that in mind in the. That the end game in mind. Yeah, but you were intentional, and that was the result of the intentionality because

[John Pajak]

it's always about servicing others. You know, for us, that's our company. Like, if you really wanted to classify

[Dennis Herring]

your company culture, it's called service business. You're supposed to have good service, otherwise why would you be in business.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Again, remember, if we're in service business, we have to serve others. It's not about. It's not necessarily always serving ourselves. Yes, I. I'm a firm. I. I'm a big advocate of. You stand up for yourself and you have a spine and you know, where what you're charging and you have your profits involved, but at the same time, you know, you listen to people.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct.

[John Pajak]

And this is what's. I think that's what makes a lot of people different, you know, is the ability to just shut up and listen for one.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, I mean, well, a lot of the cases, Many, many companies often they start people over the profit. Eventually they go profits over the people. And then they have to find different ways to find customers because the customers are leaving, they're unhappy about stuff, et cetera. And in my mind, I don't. I'm not here to consult anyone on what they should do with their business. It's more like just logically thinking. If you want to keep customers, just treat them in a way that makes them want to be serviced by you. Like just, just. How can you be unique? How can you. How can you establish such a strong personal brand that if you're in the case. In the case of John's case you get hugs wherever you go and your clients just want to come and hug you. They run out of their house to come hug you. Like, I mean, if there's anything like customer success, I mean, I'm pretty sure that's like the pinnacle of. Of customer success.

[John Pajak]

Getting a hug.

[Dennis Herring]

Exactly.

[John Pajak]

Hugs go a long way, man. I'm telling you. It's, you know, it's. It's one of the most basic human needs is touch, you know.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

Weird. I'm just gonna travel. Really weird. Trivial fact. I used to be a massage therapy instructor.

[Dennis Herring]

I would have never. Yeah, no, never.

[John Pajak]

Like what? No way. Yeah.

[Dennis Herring]

How do you. Like. This is going to be a kind of a tangent question. Yeah, I mean, that's really what we did all last recording too, which is why I love doing this podcast. Like, when you instruct massage therapy, like, what does. What does that look like?

[John Pajak]

Okay.

[Dennis Herring]

Is the best way I can ask this.

[John Pajak]

So it starts out being incredibly technical. Now a lot of people are like, feel with your heart. And I'm like, yeah, whatever, you could do that. But I. The way that I approached everything was the human anatomy. Anatomy and physiology. That was something I also taught, you know, so you would learn all. Of course.

[Dennis Herring]

That's a PhD over here. You learn.

[John Pajak]

You learn all the muscles, the names of them. There's insertion points and attachment points where you basically how they attach to the bones and how they interact with it. Okay.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay, I can follow that.

[John Pajak]

When you. When I would teach, basically they would know. They'd be like. They wouldn't just be like frou frou massage therapists. They'd be like clinical massage therapists.

[Dennis Herring]

Got it. Okay.

[John Pajak]

And it's like, well, my. You know, I could tell by like looking at somebody like when now you're faking, but like the way you sit and the way you stand or the way you walk. I can be like his back, hips hurting, his legs a little out of whack. And, you know, he's got a little tightness and, you know, his adductors.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, you can probably call a lot from me. I played golf in college, so my. My body's all out.

[John Pajak]

You're all twisty.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah, yeah. You know, because you haven't been unwound in a while.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, exactly. You know, but the thing, you know, just to identify the. The way that the muscles are. Are contracted and everything. So then it's like, okay, we could work on that. How do we got it? How do we identify. You know, it's like once you understand the anatomy, you really kind of dig in there and start to elongate the muscles or find those. Those. The points where there's adhesions and things like that. And you work them out, you know, So I hope that answers.

[Dennis Herring]

Interesting.

[John Pajak]

Yeah.

[Dennis Herring]

And you just taught clinical, like massagers how to more simply find those places to make the biggest impact.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Because it's like there's no one person that's going to be the same way every single time. So it's like identifying not only visually, kind of like, okay, well, this is where the trapezius comes in, and it attaches here and here and here. Let's. But it's like you visually remember that, but then you feel it with your hands and you can feel tightness. My wife, she's just like, you never did. And I'm like, I go. And I. I'm just like.

[Dennis Herring]

I just go.

[John Pajak]

And I do that. She's like, oh, yeah. Okay, okay, okay, you found it. And I'm like, yeah, I know.

[Dennis Herring]

You know, wow.

[John Pajak]

It's. Whether I choose to do it or not.

[Dennis Herring]

So clinical massage therapist instructor turned lawn care business owner.

[John Pajak]

Yeah. So it's a. It's been. Let's do a quick, like, real quick. Started out, you know, doing a ton of different jobs, but one of them was in lawn care.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay.

[John Pajak]

Went to school at the same time to become a massage therapist. At some point, I was still doing. I was still in lawn care. But then I had an opportunity. I was tired of doing this job. I was tired of doing everything, especially after Johnny Boy Lawn Care failed. And then I had an opportunity to become an instructor at a school.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay.

[John Pajak]

Went in, became a massage therapy instructor, learned a whole bunch of other skills with office stuff and whatnot, then went and got burnt out on that. The school that I was working for just abused me. Went into construction. That makes sense. Total sense. I became a laborer, you know, union laborer. And then I was.

[Dennis Herring]

That's the natural next step.

[John Pajak]

Of course, you know, this is how this is. This is all the way.

[Dennis Herring]

You know, this is a straight line, one straight arrow. Straight. Absolutely up there.

[John Pajak]

Besides working with my back and my body, they started to realize I could do things. And I started out as a timekeeper for a couple companies, and then.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay.

[John Pajak]

Then I became an estimator.

[Dennis Herring]

Okay.

[John Pajak]

Got taught, like, some things. And then I started, like, realizing, like, how things work. I go, you know what. What's been bugging me? I started getting to the. Into positions where I was getting hurt at the work because. Not because of my own things, but other People weren't looking out for me. And I was getting. I'm like, had a kid and you couldn't massage yourself? Yeah, I couldn't massage myself. So I'm like, you know what? I never almost got killed doing mowing lawns and stuff. So I'm like. And it's been an itch in the back of my mind, you know, johnny boy, lawn care, I gotta make that right. So I started my other company and walked away from a great pension, a great benefits, a great paying job, I mean, without trying. I mean, I was making almost 100k a year. And it's. People think I was nuts. Like my parents, my dad could not figure out. He's like, why the hell are you leaving this? You got benefits, you got everything. Yeah, you're doing like 100k a year. Why the hell would you walk away from this to go mow lawns again? I'm like, it was something I needed to prove. And then the crazy thing is, you know, my business, you know, we stopped mowing lawns. We did fertilization, weed control. And along that path, I started realizing not only to help myself, but to help others. I started doing a lot of social media and this is where I started to realize, like, I could help other people avoid all the, you know, you're going to put the blood, sweat and tears in there, but I want you to avoid all the, you know, punches in the face.

[Dennis Herring]

Exactly.

[John Pajak]

In the, you know, the nether regions areas.

[Dennis Herring]

In the southern hemisphere.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, the southern hemisphere area. You know, it's sensitive down there, but you don't want to. We don't need to, you know, we don't need to tamper with the things that are down. And I wanted to avoid that. So, yeah, again, I just started punching bags. Yeah. Just wanted to help people avoid a lot of that and started coaching and advising other businesses, consulting for them. And I don't know, fast forward. We started doing the podcast and wow, that's. That was the straight line that brought me here today.

[Dennis Herring]

Perfectly straight.

[John Pajak]

Absolutely. Got no deviating, no deviations. It's textbook. It's how it should be done. Everybody needs to be a massage therapy instructor with a lawn care background, go into construction, then have a podcast and be a coach and never. You only get like two hours of sleep a night for four, seven, 12 years. I don't even know anymore. That's the way you should live your life.

[Dennis Herring]

You do that and you'll be right back here. Business owner, podcaster and a serial entrepreneur.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. So, yeah, I don't know it's been a long and twisted road, but I realize everything that I have done in my life was God's plan. And if I hadn't gone through, let's say, one of those chapters I didn't go through, I couldn't be the man I am today and be able to help the people that I got that

[Dennis Herring]

literally built you to be who you are now. And I had the same conversation with my wife the other day, because the way I got my role here at the advisory is I was actually supposed to be a sales manager for the same CEO at his previous company before he sold it. Because I had six years of business development and sales experience building sales development teams. And ultimately he gave me the option to say, you could either take the six figure job here at my previous company and work under the private equity firm, or you can help me launch an investment bank. And I told him, I was like, you know what I mean? Pick a safe, like, great salary job or work for a guy who sold five companies. I like the latter option more. And so just over the course of the last year, because we met initially, I think like maybe my fourth or fifth week at the company, maybe even sixth at most. But if there's anything I've learned, there is no perfect path, only a corrective perspective. And it really just comes down to, you can either be upset that things you thought could work didn't work out, or you can say, okay, this is where I am now. How can I maximize this door so I can be prepared for the next one that God just shoots out of the doorway? Because what we've learned, at least my wife and I, when we do our best to walk in the direction we feel that we're called to walk in, and we start operating within our purpose. I think I heard one of your colleagues talk about it earlier. You don't have to try to open the doors. They just fly out the doorway and you start wondering, wait, which door is it? I've got like four doors for you. What's going on? And then you just look up and like, other doors are shut and there's no door in one of the frames. Yeah. Oh, I think that one.

[John Pajak]

Yeah. It's like there isn't even a door there anymore. It's blown off the hinges. You go that way, go that way.

[Dennis Herring]

And that's where, like, even when it comes to owning businesses and just tying it all back together, like, the more that you accept where you are, but be prepared for the future, it just allows you more flexibility over time. Because you either get more time, freedom like you've been experiencing, or if life comes up and you decide you do want to step back and sell, you're in a position to do so. And there's no headache of, what do I have to change to be prepared? But in the end, to your point, it's just about taking every step you can to grow, to learn, and make progress. One of the best quotes I ever heard from a mentor was, when it comes to the concept of living a decade, do you really live a decade and progress, or are you just simply reliving the same year 10 times and calling it a decade? And that completely changed how I approached even just my corporate development. Am I really developing myself? Am I really improving in other areas and developing skills, or am I just counting down each month until the new year hits?

[John Pajak]

Yeah, it's. And that's, again, that's a powerful way to think, because, like, last year, I thought I was in really good shape as far as, you know, where my business was. Yeah, we had our discussion. You know, I didn't really, like, change my life because of you or anything, Dennis. I'm just saying.

[Dennis Herring]

You just tell me anyway.

[John Pajak]

Yeah, but, you know, I quit Shameless. You know what? Shameless, Dennis, Shameless changed my life. He's the one that made me make changes, make all the changes. No, it was our conversation. It was at the back of my mind, and I had some things happening, and it's like, you know what? I need to do better. I thought, like last year when we talked, I'm like, yeah, I think I could sell my business right now. And I'm like, no, actually, I couldn't. Now that I look back, I'm like, no way. No way. I would have left so much money on the table if I were compared to now. The way that I have, you know, just changed some of the things. It's like, you know, what if I start thinking like, these guys?

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

Like you. You know, like, not that venture capitalism is bad or anything, but it's just a private equity. I should say. It's not bad, but it's just. If you think about it and you start, like, going, okay, I need to take myself again, like with the hat analogy. Yeah. If I take more of these hats off, the. You think, no, my business won't survive without me. Dude, if you take those hats off and give them to other people, delegate them or eliminate them if they. Maybe they're. Maybe you're wearing a hat that you don't even need.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct. That's A really good point there. Are you wearing a hat that you don't actually need to wear?

[John Pajak]

Exactly. It's like, you don't mean you don't have to wear it or actually that hat should be gone. Correct. Shouldn't even be on anybody.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And it's like when you start thinking like that, holy crap. Not only is your. You're. I'm just saying my business got way funner.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

I got re. Inspired, reignited everything. And it's just like, oh, yeah, this is great. But now if I were to say, hey, Dennis, can you help me out? I bet you guys could evaluate my business and it would be worth more than what I originally valued it at.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

And I've had some, actually some pretty cool people, like, look at my business and they're like, you can get more than what you think you want for it. And I'm like, okay, cool. That's good to know.

[Podcast Host (John Pajak)]

Yeah.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. And that's a lot of the reason why. Why Shameless marketing pitch. It's why we do market tests. Because most owners that like, some of them. I was talking to somebody about this earlier, actually. A lot of small owners position themselves better and are typically worth more than they thought. A lot of bigger owners who think they set themselves up better might not be worth much more because they account for things that might not be relevant. But it goes back to why we operate the way we do. We're fully success based. So with the advisory, it's again, Shameless plugin.

[John Pajak]

No, no, no.

[Dennis Herring]

It's like we only get. We only get a fee if a deal's actually signed. So we literally bring you back 5, 10, 12 options, however money to come in and we negotiate. Hey, at the end of the negotiation, which one of these is the best fit? If it's none, we didn't do our job. We don't get paid if there is one. We do our best to move forward through LOI and begin the Q of E process and closing process. But unless. But most. I would say this based on my own math. For the people I have personally brought to the company, I would say three quarters of them were not looking to sell at the time, did a market test, realized they were worth way more than they thought, and they moved forward with the sale. Which really made me think, how much more value is there in just market testing than are people ready? Because it's funny, the moment you start seeing like seven figure numbers start popping up, the readiness becomes a bit more prominent. It becomes a bit more interesting now.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Because it's like, especially if it's a little bit over that and you go like, well, I could buy a car and I'm still at seven figures. Whoa.

[Dennis Herring]

Whoa. Exactly.

[John Pajak]

Wait, Cars are kind of expensive. You and I could have a car and still have all the money.

[Dennis Herring]

Like that. I can pay for a dream house and still have money. Whoa. I could pay it all cash. This is a conversation. Yeah, exactly.

[John Pajak]

Yeah.

[Dennis Herring]

That's just the fun of what I get to do. I love going to these shows and just getting to meet guys to answer questions and just talk about the process, because so many people just don't understand all the details that go into. It's just so much fun.

[John Pajak]

So, Dennis, if people wanted to reach out to you, maybe ask you some questions, kind of, you know. Yeah, let me see what the advisory is all about. How. What's the best way to get a hold of you?

[Dennis Herring]

This may or may not bite me in the butt, but.

[John Pajak]

But one T or two T's, I don't know. Let's figure it out.

[Dennis Herring]

But they can either email me at my first name, Dennis D E N N I S at the advisory I b.com or I'm going to take a shot here and you can shoot me a text as well. It's a. It's gonna be 919-612-9445. That's my cell. So if you call that and I don't recognize the number, I may push you to voicemail. But please leave a voicemail and if you let me know what this is in reference to or if it's from the podcast, I promise I'll shoot a text or call back.

[John Pajak]

Maybe they should just. If they're texting you, just like preface it with like, yeah, it's a paycheck. Yeah, just be like, reference. Yeah, paycheck.

[Dennis Herring]

Tell a John, send, you tell me page, like, whatever me just reference the podcast in some way so I know where this this from. And I. And we can 100% engage.

[John Pajak]

Nice. And we were going to definitely put those in the show notes so it'll be easier for you to find if you're interested in this at all. If this is something that you're like, yes, this is. You're talking to me right now. Or maybe you're like, you're crazy. I'll think about it. Regardless of how. Where you're at in your business again, I think it's a really good idea to always run your business as if you're going to sell it, because even if you hang on to it, it's you're still winning.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah. You know, it just means you have more money in your pocket and you have more time in your pocket. Like, there's no losing in the situation.

[John Pajak]

I mean, I'm telling you, like, I'm buying time this year. You know, that's what I've been able to do. And it's been way less stressful, way better quality of life and. Wow. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Dennis Herring]

Like, mind blowing.

[John Pajak]

Like, oh, my God, I gotta work, and I could actually have a. A, you know, an actual life in some way. Crazy, crazy stuff. So, again, business should be serving you. It's you, you know, you own the business. The business should not own you.

[Dennis Herring]

Correct, Exactly.

[John Pajak]

But, Dennis, it's been a pleasure.

[Dennis Herring]

I've been waiting for this for 12 months. I was. I was so looking. I was.

[John Pajak]

I know you were. Dude, you were so excited. And when you found out that we were heading back, I'm like, yes, I remember you. I'm like, definitely. We should definitely connect again. It was a lot of fun.

[Dennis Herring]

The first time was a blast. I was like, okay, 12, 365 days until I can do this again. Perfect.

[John Pajak]

Well, you know, we could get a hold of each other before that.

[Dennis Herring]

Oh, I know we do it remotely, but, like, being in person, I mean, hang out. I give you a. Give you a hug. When I got there, like, see, I joined the hug crew, too.

[John Pajak]

See, it works out, touches the most. It is literally one of the. It is the most powerful form of communication.

[Dennis Herring]

Yeah.

[John Pajak]

You know. You know, well, we'll leave it at that because I don't want people thinking it's gonna be weird. We don't want to make this a weird thing, but.

[Dennis Herring]

No, we'll just keep the tangents completely irresponsible.

[John Pajak]

Exactly. Just figure out. Let your imagination run wild after we hit the unrecord button. So, as I thank you for coming, Dennis, again, it's been great. I also want to just thank you for listening today. And if you have any questions, please reach out to us. We'll, you know, profits with paycheck. Gmail.com is a good way to get a hold of us on the show. Show. And as always, God bless. Keep pushing through and we'll catch you on the next one. Thank you once again for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please leave a review and share it with fellow business owners. Your support means the world to me and helps keep the show going strong. I want to give a special shout out to our friends at Yardbook. Their continued support has been instrumental in bringing this podcast to you week after week. If you if you haven't checked them out yet, visit yardbook.com and see how they can give you the tools to streamline and manage your lawn care business. Also, don't forget to explore the resources and upcoming events that I've collected just for you in the Show Notes. These are curated to help you stay ahead in your business with the latest tips, tools and networking opportunities. Whether it's a new tool, an insightful article, or an event you don't want to miss, I've got you covered. Until next time, keep pushing through and God bless. Sam.