Morningstar

Summary

Project Mind Control: "Morningstar"

Podcast: Project Mind Control
Host: Dr. Julia Shaw (Always True Crime)
Date: March 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this powerful episode, Dr. Julia Shaw delves into the chilling legacy of the Allan Memorial Institute in Montreal and its rumored secret history of medical experimentation on Indigenous children. Through the fractured but compelling memories of survivor Lana Ponting, listeners are guided through personal trauma, Indigenous advocacy, and ongoing forensic investigations into unmarked graves. The episode investigates the intersection of covert CIA involvement, Canada’s system of residential schools, and the long shadow cast by the psychiatric experiments of Dr. Ewen Cameron, exposing unsettling questions about accountability, lost children, and cultural genocide.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Lana Ponting’s Memories of the Allan Institute

• Lana’s Experience: As a teenage runaway, Lana Ponting was sent to the Allan Institute in the 1950s and remembers undergoing traumatic electroshock and drug treatments.
• Morningstar: Lana recalls befriending an Indigenous girl named Morningstar, who later disappeared without explanation from the hospital.
  • Quote: "She was beautiful. She had a long braid way down her back and she had the most beautiful moccasins I've ever seen in my life. ... She was a year older than I was. She was 16." — Lana Ponting [04:25, 05:00]
• Witnessing Indigenous Children: Lana testifies seeing several Indigenous children at the facility, along with hints of secretive, possibly criminal activity.
  • Quote: "Yes, there were others. Can't remember how many there were, but there were children in there. ... All kinds of children." — Lana Ponting [06:45]
• Suspicious Digging and Unanswered Questions: Lana describes seeing people with red-handled shovels at night; she suspects they were burying bodies, and this observation is supported by rumors among patients and staff.
  • Quote: "I'll never forget that. They were red handled shovels and they were digging. ... Were they burying something in the ground? What else could it be?" — Lana Ponting [07:24]
  • Affidavit Quote: "There were rumors that there are bodies buried in the Allen property. And I believe that some of them would be indigenous people." — Lana Ponting (Affidavit) [08:01]

2. The Mohawk Mothers and Indigenous Advocacy

• Description of the Mohawk Mothers as a grassroots group fighting for answers about missing Indigenous children and possible unmarked graves at the Allan site.
  • Quote: “The Mohawk Mothers are part of the indigenous group known as the Mohawks, the Kanekaha. … The Mohawk Mothers say the Allen was no different and something from Lana's memories has opened up an entirely new investigation.” — Narrator [03:31]
• Perspectives from prominent advocates such as Kahenti Netta, discussing the cultural, oral, and matriarchal traditions by which their community remembers and investigates the past.
  • Quote: "We just pass it on. And people will say, 'Oh, I heard that story before.' … So we all correct each other's story. Sometimes it's very old. … And we're correcting each other's stories..." — Kahenti Netta [13:52]
  • Quote: “It's not activism. ... Just our duties and responsibilities to our people and to our communities, to our children.” — Kahenti Netta [12:11]

3. Historical and Systemic Context: Residential and Day Schools

• Detailed explanation of Canada’s racially segregated residential and Indian day schools, with government-led removal of Indigenous children.
  • Quote: "The government of Canada has estimated that 150,000 Indigenous children were removed and separated from their families and communities to attend these residential schools. ... Many ... were buried in unmarked and mass graves." — Narrator [17:20]
• Personal testimony from Kahenti Netta about being misdiagnosed due to lack of English and surviving harsh punishments in Indian day school.
  • Quote: “I couldn't speak any English, so they thought that I was mentally retarded.” — Kahenti Netta [16:29]
• Establishes the documented precedent of Indigenous children disappearing or dying in care, strengthening the plausibility of unmarked graves at institutions like the Allan Institute.

4. The Archaeological Investigation at the Allan Site

• Development Blocked: The Mohawk Mothers launch legal action to halt McGill University’s new construction until proper search for graves is completed.
  • Quote: “We have the duty to go and investigate and make sure that no one is buried there without a respectful send off.” — Dr. Philippe Bloin [21:48]
• Investigation Methods:
  • Cadaver dogs detected the scent of human remains.
    • Quote: “They're able to very, very accurately identify the scent of specifically human decomposition. They don't alert to animals.” — Josie Quigley [23:23]
  • Ground-penetrating radar highlighted nine areas with "potential grave type features," though not conclusive for bodies.
  • Soil spectroscopy was also used, suggesting soft tissue decomposition but unable to confirm if human.
    • Quote: “Soil spectroscopy also indicated that there is evidence of soft tissue decomposition.” — Josie Quigley [25:29]
  • One area was flagged by all three methods, supporting the possibility of human remains.
    • Quote: “Combining all three of those lines of evidence is like how we get to the conclusion of...the presence of human remains on site, even if we can't physically dig them up.” — Josie Quigley [26:01]
• Findings: Remnants of children’s shoes and various bone fragments; concerns that evidence may have been destroyed or misclassified as animal remains.
  • Quote: “There was a sole of a child's shoe. … [bones] were bone fragments, all different types, sizes, and they were thrown in a paper bag. … We are going to investigate.” — Dr. Philippe Bloin [26:42, 27:10]

5. Institutional & Legal Roadblocks

• Restricted access to records due to privacy laws; only direct descendants may view patient files, limiting the search for identified children.
• McGill's official stance is that "no human remains have been discovered," but the investigation and community involvement remain ongoing.
• McGill’s public relations statement highlights their reconciliation efforts and collaboration with Indigenous communities—though search results remain inconclusive so far.
  • Affidavit Quote: "McGill's commitment to reconciliation has helped guide the development of the Sustainability Park. Indigenous communities have been engaged to co-develop proposals..." — McGill Statement (read by Lana Ponting, Affidavit Voice) [28:42]

6. The Alleged Swimming Pool Cover-Up, Rumors, and Urban Legends

• Lana remembers staff talking about a swimming pool built after her time, rumored to be “to hide the bodies.”
  • Affidavit Quote: "I heard somebody say, why? Why are they building a swimming pool? And this person said, well, I guess to hide the bodies." — Lana Ponting (Affidavit) [29:53]
• Urban legends linger about the now-abandoned pool as a hiding site for bodies, although no concrete proof has been found.

7. Dr. Ewen Cameron’s Published Lethal Experiment

• Rare direct evidence of a patient dying in an experiment conducted by Dr. Cameron—subject 11 in a dehydration study (not at the Allan, but at another hospital).
  • Quote from Cameron (read by host): "A fatality occurred in case number 11. The patient grew very excited, refused nourishment ... Sudden collapse and death followed." — Dr. Cameron [32:57]
  • Quote: "The 24-year-old patient died from the complications of dehydration. ... But it also shows that he didn't have to hide the fact that a patient he experimented on died. He could be open about this and still be hired..." — Narrator [33:14-33:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lana Ponting on Indigenous children and secrets at the Allan:
  "Morningstar, she disappeared from the Allen. I don't know where she went, but I'd love to find her if I could." [09:01]
• Kahenti Netta on activism and duty:
  "It's not activism. I think it's just our duties and responsibilities to our people and to our communities, to our children. ... We know what we have to do, and we'll do it." [12:11]
• Josie Quigley on forensic limitations:
  "GPR really can only tell you that ... there is a material that is different from the material it has just passed through. ... There's very little difference between...the human body compared to like soil." [24:41]
• Dr. Philippe Bloin on the search’s significance:
  "There are people buried there, and whether we know their names or not, there are people that deserve the respect of having their story told, being buried properly and not being a guinea pig." [14:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:07 | Mohawk Mothers gather at Allan Institute, new investigation | | 04:25 | Lana Ponting’s recollections of Morningstar and friends in Allan | | 07:24 | Lana’s memories of midnight digging and red-handled shovels | | 08:01 | Lana’s affidavit: sneaking out and witnessing suspicious activity| | 13:09 | Indigenous matriarchy and oral history explained by Kahenti Netta| | 16:29 | Kahenti Netta on Indian day school and language barriers | | 21:02 | Legal and archaeological status of the Allan Institute search | | 23:23 | Cadaver dog and GPR results explained by Josie Quigley | | 26:42 | Evidence: child’s shoe, bone fragments; forensics challenges | | 29:53 | Rumors about swimming pool built to hide bodies | | 32:57 | Dr. Cameron’s lethal dehydration experiment recounted |

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Conclusion & Continuing Questions

The episode leaves listeners with unresolved but haunting questions:

• What precisely happened to Morningstar and other missing children from the Allan Institute?
• Do the rumors and findings point toward a pattern of covered up deaths and unmarked graves?
• Will the combination of community memories, forensic methods, and institutional transparency yield answers or continued obfuscation?

As the archaeological and archival work continues, “Morningstar” weaves together survivor testimony, Indigenous knowledge, and the legacy of medical atrocities, insisting that the truth—however incomplete—demands acknowledgment and justice.

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End of summary. For listeners seeking further investigation or to support the Mohawk Mothers, follow updates via their official communications and the Project Mind Control podcast stream.

Transcript

[Narrator / Host]

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[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Welcome back to two Judgy Girls.

[Lana Ponting (Affidavit Voice)]

It's Mary from the Bay and it's Courtney from la. Every week we're talking about the only things that truly matter. Bravo, pop culture, reality tv, and of course, our very own chaotic lives. If there's a feud, a scandal or messy drama, we've got thoughts. Lots of them. We break down all the episode like it's our job. Because honestly, it kind of is. From Beverly Hills to New York summer house to Southern Charm, if they filmed it, you better believe we're gonna talk about it. Expect hot takes, unfiltered opinions and a lot of laughter. We're like your best friends who never stop talking about tv. So pour yourself something strong, maybe a teeny or a big cup of coffee, and join us every week for two Judgy girls because being judgy has never been this fun.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com warning this series includes discussion of inhumane medical experimentation, including on children, violence, sexual assault, abuse of children and cultural genocide.

[Narrator / Host]

The Mohawk Mothers, A group of Indigenous women gathered in front of the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal on Tuesday to provide an update on their search for unmarked graves.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

This clip is from a City News report posted to YouTube. It's from the autumn of 2025.

[Kahenti Netta]

We have announced to the Superior Court that we will be filing an interlocutory motion shortly. We have no choice.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

It shows the Mohawk Mothers occupying the grass in front of the Allen. The Mohawk Mothers are part of the indigenous group known as the Mohawks, the Kanekaha. Behind them are more than 50 supporters wearing orange and holding banners with slogans such as Uncovering the Truth. Government funded facilities have a long and terrible history of mistreating indigenous children. The Mohawk Mothers say the Allen was no different and something from Lana's memories has opened up an entirely new investigation. I'm Dr. Julia Shaw, this is Project Mind Control. Morning Star was my friend at the Allen Institute. Lana made a friend.

[Lana Ponting]

Oh, she was beautiful. She had a long braid way down her back and she had the most beautiful moccasins I've ever seen in my life. And she said that her grandmother made them for her. And I asked her where she came from and she said something with a K. I can't remember the name, but she said it wasn't too far away.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Morningstar was the only friend Lana remembers having at the Ellen.

[Lana Ponting]

She was a year older than I was. She was 16.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Dr. Cameron encouraged socializing. In fact, in 1956 he wrote, Group

[Narrator / Host]

interaction is one of the prime dynamics upon which the day hospital rests and functions.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

That's probably why there were dances. But Lana met Morningstar in a decidedly less cheerful atmosphere.

[Lana Ponting]

She had just had a series of treatments and she was sitting on the floor. She couldn't walk. She was doped up a lot, the same as I was.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

They met on one of the halls of the Allen Institute and she said

[Lana Ponting]

she didn't feel well. And she explained to me what they did to her and I figured out that she had the same thing that I did, the electroshock treatment, because when I used to get it, it used to make me scream because it was so horrific. It does something to your body.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

She saw Morningstar for a while afterwards

[Lana Ponting]

and then all of a sudden she was gone. And I said, well, where did she go? And nobody would answer me. And I got mad and I says, you know, I swore at them. I said, well, where'd she go? And one of the nurses was quite rude, and she says, it's not up to you to know where she went.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

When Lana first made her statement about having seen Morningstar at the Allen, it got the Mohawk mothers attention.

[Lana Ponting]

I did see indigenous children in the Allen. Morningstar was one of them. Yes, there were others. Can't remember how many there were, but there were children in there. I'd say the average age would be 9, 10, 9, 10 years old, 11, 12. Just like us. There are all kinds, all kinds of children.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

All kinds of children.

[Lana Ponting]

I'll never forget that. They were red handled shovels and they were digging. And I thought, well, why are they out here digging? What are they doing? And then I found out that there were possible bodies buried on the property. Now, what else could they have been doing? Why would they be digging?

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Lana remembers sneaking out of her room.

[Lana Ponting]

I got out because they forgot to lock the door.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

She testified to this in her affidavit as well, which is voiced by an actor.

[Lana Ponting (Affidavit Voice)]

I would sneak out of my room at the Allen at night and walk down the front steps, and I would hide. I found people standing over by the cement wall with shovels. Two were on one side of the wall and one was on the other side. I remembered that vividly because they had red handles on the shovels and a flashlight. What were they doing with shovels over by the concrete fence? There is only one thing that comes into my mind. Were they burying something in the ground? What else could it be? There were rumors that there are bodies buried in the Allen property. And I believe that some of them would be indigenous people.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Lana thinks that perhaps something terrible happened to Morningstar. Maybe the treatments made her so ill that she passed away.

[Lana Ponting]

I really think they must have been burying bodies. Morningstar, she disappeared from the Allen. I don't know where she went, but I'd love to find her if I could. I would love to find her.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Of course, Morningstar could simply have been discharged. But the nature of secrecy at the Allen and the defiance of the nurses fueled speculation.

[Lana Ponting]

One of the nurses was quite rude, and she says, it's not up to you to know where she went.

[Lana Ponting (Affidavit Voice)]

Hi.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

How you doing?

[Josie Quigley]

Good, thanks.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

We're in Gahnawague, a First nations reserve to the south of St. Lawrence river in Quebec to meet the Mohawk mothers. Susie McCarthy is a Canadian radio producer. We were introduced to the mothers by anthropologist Dr. Philippe Bloin. Who specializes in all things Kanekaha. He's about to take Suzy to meet Gahentineta and Guidillo, two prominent Kehekaha women. All right.

[Brooke Devard]

I guess she's not home.

[Lana Ponting]

Come on.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Nice to meet you.

[Lana Ponting]

Come on in.

[Kahenti Netta]

I try to keep it, you know, try to put things in order here.

[Josie Quigley]

Oh, don't worry about that.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Don't you worry about that. It's tidy enough for me. I love the table. It's so colorful. I love the table.

[Kahenti Netta]

We were everywhere. We were a huge group of people. We had people living in New York state and down, further south and so on, and out west too, further and north. So we were a large group of people. But then in the end, we weren't.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Kahenti Netta is in her 80s now. She was a civil servant in the Department of Indian Affairs. She was also a fashion model in her early 20s. She's still enchanting and has an air of glamour to her. She rose to prominence as someone speaking up for Indigenous land rights, treaty rights, and she continues to engage in cultural advocacy.

[Josie Quigley]

First of all, we have treaties which guarantee, in exchange for Canada, we have been guaranteed our education, our medical care and our welfare and guarantees of our Indian lands and also mineral rights.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Here she is speaking about the Canadian constitution and treaty rights in Ottawa in 1968. In the video, she looks poised and confident. She even makes a joke.

[Josie Quigley]

Our rights have been violated for such a long time that they should try and think about how they're going to live up to their promises to the Indians. After all, I think that they're getting Canada quite cheap. They're not paying very much at the moment.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

In 1963, she was also crowned as Indian Princess of Canada.

[Kahenti Netta]

I don't think it's activism. I think it's just our duties and responsibilities to our people and to our communities, to our children. It's all there. We know what we have to do, and we'll do it. And we won't let anybody stop us.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Guidillo, a businesswoman who's worked to develop an autonomous Mohawk economy, agrees.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

Well, first of all, I understood when you asked Kohandinetta about her activism, and she says she doesn't call it that. We more or less call that asserting our rights, asserting our inherent rights and asserting our responsibilities. So in this, what it is, is that there is a history there, pre colonialism. And that is a respectful place where we met once upon a time.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

And as they explained to us, those rights involve protecting the land and children. Here's Gahenti netta again.

[Kahenti Netta]

So it was just something that's part of our culture. We try to put it in people's minds. Not like the white people that write on a piece of paper and then they put it on a shelf somewhere and they forget about it. Not us. We have to tell those stories over and over again. And when we make any kind of a deal, anything, well, of course, the women are the ones that finally make the. The decisions on a lot of it, especially anything that has to do with the land and the babies and the children. And the men, of course, you know, are the warriors.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

The Kanekaha don't keep written records. They have a tradition of oral history. So everything gets passed down from generation to generation.

[Kahenti Netta]

We just pass it on. And people will say, oh, I heard that story before. You know, just the other day, somebody said, I heard that story. This is the way I heard it. So we all correct each other's story. Sometimes it's very old. It's 20, 30, 40 years old. And we're correcting each other's stories by

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

not writing things down. We don't have additional documents that we can rely on, which makes it a bit more difficult for us to piece this story together. They have deep concerns over the treatment of Indigenous children at the Allen Institute.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

There are people buried there, and whether we know their names or not, there are people that deserve the respect of having their story told, being buried properly and not being a guinea pig.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Is it plausible that a psychiatric facility would bury dead patients in their own backyard? Until 1996, Canada had a system of residential schools, an indian residential school 500 miles north of Toronto. This report aired on 13 March 1955 on CBC TV's news magazine. It shows Indigenous children skipping rope, playing hockey, reading books in a classroom and playing table tennis. They. They make it look fun to be there. Principal Eric Barrington dispenses first aid, among his many other duties. He heads one of Canada's 69 Indian residential schools, scattered in key locations as far north as the Arctic Circle. They have a total of 11,000 pupils, orphans, convalescents, those who live too far in the wilderness to get to a daily school. The explicit purpose of residential schools was, in the government's own words, to civilize people. For the oldest Canadians, a new future. I am Canadian, and when I was learning about this at school in the 1990s, there was very little public discussion of what really happened at these residential schools. Today, it is widely recognized that residential schools were part of a systematic oppression of Indigenous beliefs, practices and languages by the state, a practice which has been called cultural genocide.

[Kahenti Netta]

I went to one of the schools here and it was right after the war. I was six years old and I went to the school here and I couldn't speak any English, so they thought that I was mentally retarded.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Kahenti Netta didn't go to a residential school. Instead she was sent to an Indian day school, a different type of racially segregated education in Canada.

[Kahenti Netta]

And they were very, very angry about that. But I spoke Mohawk, though. They were all my relatives in there and we were punished with strappings. And anyway, it was a very hard time.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Children would often simply disappear to these schools.

[Kahenti Netta]

I think my father was worried about us being taken and then he took us out of school.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

It was compulsory for Indigenous children to attend schools designed to assimilate them, known broadly as Indian schools. Canada is the second biggest country in the world and Indigenous reservations are often in incredibly remote places. Even just the province of Quebec is six times the size of the entire United Kingdom. If you look at the map, there are lakes and islands and forests and rough terrain everywhere. This means the journey from the Indigenous reservations to the schools could sometimes take days, necessitating planes, ships and cars. So it must have taken a great deal of effort and risk to for Khenti Netta's father to pull her out of the school. And it was the threat of the state sending someone again to snatch them. That is presumably why her father took them to the us. The reality of children being taken was a constant threat until the last school closed in 1996. The Government of Canada has estimated that 150,000 thousand Indigenous children were removed and separated from their families and communities to attend these residential schools. Over the following decades, it came to light that thousands of Indigenous children across Canada died due to the horrific conditions and punishments in these facilities. Many of them were buried in unmarked and mass graves. So is it plausible that a government funded facility might bury Indigenous children on their property in Canada? Absolutely. Or that documents pertaining to Indigenous children and their deaths are lost also? Yes. According to official government reports, the paperwork in these cases was often mismanaged, lost or destroyed. So did anything like this happen at the Allen?

[Lana Ponting]

Oh, she was beautiful. She had a long braid way down her back.

[Narrator / Host]

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[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

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[Narrator / Host]

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[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

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[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

From 2015 until now, McGill University has undergone an extensive consultation process for the new VIC project, which involves building on the site of the Royal Victoria Hospital, which is where the Allen Institute was housed. Under Dr. Cameron, the site is of archaeological importance. It was historically used as a place of meeting and exchange among first nations peoples. It has been a medical facility for a long time and there has never been a residential school on the grounds. In 2022, after hearing Lana Ponting's account of Morningstar, the Mohawk mothers filed a lawsuit against the university and others that stopped the new VIC development from going ahead.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

We have the duty to go and investigate and make sure that no one is buried there without a respectful send off.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

In 2023, the search for the missing children began. It was a big undertaking and the Mohawk mothers were directly involved from the start of the search. McGill agreed to allow researchers into their archives to try and find any documents listing Indigenous patients, but the researchers quickly hit a roadblock. They were only allowed to search the records for specific names and Canadian law barred them from seeing the records of anyone they weren't a direct descendant of. Meanwhile, the archaeological search was beginning.

[Josie Quigley]

One of the central questions is the efficacy of this actual investigation and like whether or not it was thorough and done properly.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

This is community researcher and archaeology student Josie Quigley, who's been working with the Mohawk mothers. The search is still ongoing and here is how it is being carried out. The university appointed archaeologists to identify areas of interest. Once those areas were identified, three methods were used to search them. First came the human remains dogs who were Sent to sniff out the grounds, the dogs picked up the scent of human remains.

[Josie Quigley]

They're able to very, very accurately identify the scent of specifically human decomposition. They don't alert to animals. They don't alert to like, contrary to popular belief, a tooth rotting in a sewage system, for example.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

After the dogs picked up the scent of human remains, radar was used that could penetrate the ground.

[Josie Quigley]

Once you in theory have found an area of concern with the historic human remain detection dogs, you would then go to use ground penetrating radar, which cannot tell you what is in the ground, but it can tell you where it is, how big it is, how deep it is.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Radar found nine areas with in quotes, potential grave type features.

[Josie Quigley]

So those things are like complementary, shall we say. So you know, like there are human remains in this general area. Okay, there's something that is human remains shaped and buried approximately where we would imagine human remains to be buried in the area that they've indicated.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

According to Magill, none were found to be graves. One area, the most significant one, turned out to be a concrete mass with cables running through it. The problem with ground penetrating radar is that it is not made to detect bones, bodies.

[Josie Quigley]

GPR really can only tell you that like there is a material that is different from the material that it has just passed through. So because human remains are organic, when they are just straight put in the soil, like no coffin, no tomb or anything like that, there's very little difference between like the electrical and magnetic resistivity of the human body compared to like soil.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

And not all of the potential grave type features could be ruled out. So people were sent to collect soil samples and analyze them.

[Josie Quigley]

And then the final line of evidence that we have been using the soil

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

spectroscopy in the soil samples, they found something.

[Josie Quigley]

Soil spectroscopy also indicated that there is evidence of soft tissue decomposition.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

But this method too has issues.

[Josie Quigley]

Cannot distinguish between human and non human decomposition, but it only identifies the decomposition of soft tissues.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

There was one place on the former grounds of the Ellen that was flagged by all three methods. To Josie and others working with the Mohawk mothers. This is significant.

[Josie Quigley]

So combining all three of those lines of evidence is like how we get to the conclusion of like. This supports the presence of human remains on site, even if we can't physically dig them up.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

On their website, Magill says the allegations that there may be unmarked graves on the site of the former Royal Victoria Hospital are currently being investigated. The university wishes to shed light on these allegations, which will only be possible once the archaeological investigation has been completed. To date, no human remains have been discovered. There's been very little excavation on the site, but what there has been has thrown up some questions.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

There was a sole of a child's shoe. There was the side remnant of an old boot.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

It has been identified as a small woman's or child's shoe from the first half of the 20th century. The shoe was found in one of the search areas where construction work was about to take place. Because of this, the team were able to excavate a small area. And the shoe isn't the only thing that was found.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

When they found bones, they're like, oh, that's a animal. Oh, that's an animal. And it's like when animals die, they don't get buried. Other animals eat them or the elements take them away. But these were deep in the ground and they were bones fragments, all different types, sizes, and they were thrown in a paper bag. And they said, we're going to take them to the lab and we are going to investigate.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

They believe that some of the remains that were dismissed as being from animals may actually have been from humans. The group is also concerned about soil and bone fragments being being sifted by machine, which the Mohawk mothers say could have destroyed fragile evidence. The Mohawk mothers are once again left with more questions than answers.

[Dr. Philippe Bloin]

Right now we're waiting for a report and there are things that while the technological people were on site that they have found anomalies. So we are trying to do our best best to find a way to have that investigated in the proper manner.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

McGill's website says that if human remains were detected, the building work would cease immediately. Consultation would ensue with the archaeological panel appointed in this case, law enforcement authorities, the Medical Council of Canada and leaders of local Indigenous communities. We reached out to McGill for comment and they said in terms of the

[Lana Ponting (Affidavit Voice)]

site of the former Royal Victoria Hospital, the McGill Sustainability Park, a state of the art research, teaching and learning hub dedicated to sustainability systems and public policy, is moving forward as planned with an expected opening date of 2029. McGill's commitment to reconciliation has helped guide the development of the Sustainability Park. Indigenous communities have been engaged to co develop proposals for Indigenous physical representation throughout the Sustainability park design ways. Over 50 internal and external Indigenous community members were engaged in dozens of activities over a period of two years.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

We tried to find Morningstar but couldn't definitively identify anyone who matched her description. And there was the question, given that no bodies have been found, is there evidence that any patients died at the Allen? In addition to Lana's one memory of shovels with red handles and whispers in the middle of the night, she has another memory, one involving a pool. Here she is talking about it in her affidavit.

[Lana Ponting (Affidavit Voice)]

The Allen was an open concept and I heard people talking. The swimming pool was not there when I was. It was put in two years later. But two years earlier, I heard somebody say, why? Why are they building a swimming pool? And this person said, well, I guess to hide the bodies. So what was I supposed to think when he said that? I heard a lot of things going on at the Allen. It wasn't a patient. It was the staff people talking. And then the patient started to ask, what is going on? Why am I here? What are they doing to me? Why are they doing this to me? It was horrible.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

A swimming pool was built on the grounds of the Allen Institute in 1961, three years after Lana was discharged. A quick search takes you to the haunted Montreal accounts.

[Josie Quigley]

The abandoned Henry William Morgan Pool, nestled between the old Royal Victoria Hospital and Allen Memorial Institute, is rumored to conceal dark secrets. Built in 1961, it's now graffiti covered and eerie. After a tragic drowning in 2013, it was shut down. Spooky tales include sightings of a decaying hand reaching from the stagnant water and unsettling dreams of children's voices. Locals believe it may hide the bodies of children from horrific experiments conducted at the nearby Allen Memorial Institute.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

The video posted on Instagram is more of a slideshow of still images, sometimes black and white, sometimes in color, of the Allen and of the graffitied pool. We couldn't find concrete evidence of anyone dying at the Allen. So we wanted to see if we could find any evidence of Dr. Cameron's patients dying whilst under his care, in experiments or otherwise. And we did find one case, the death of subject 11, a case that Dr. Cameron wrote about. And the circumstances are quite extraordinary. In 1931, Dr. Cameron published the results of an experiment conducted on 12 participants. He was testing the hypothesis that dehydration could cure epilepsy. So he intentionally dehydrated his patients every day. They would be given precisely 60 minutes milliliters of water in total. That's the equivalent of a double espresso. On top of that, they were given a water free diet and diuretics to stop them from retaining the water. The study went on for seven months. In the third month, there was a problem.

[Narrator / Host]

A fatality occurred in case number 11. The patient grew very excited, refused nourishment and acidosis developed and there was some degree of nitrogen retention. Sudden collapse and death followed.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

The 24 year old patient died from the complications of dehydration. Effectively, their whole body became acidic. The other patients also suffered showing signs of severe distress or, as Dr. Cameron said, irritable.

[Narrator / Host]

They chafed at the restrictions and clashes with the staff were rather frequent.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Dr. Cameron describes it in his report as in quotes, difficulties in carrying out the diet, and describes their behaviour in

[Narrator / Host]

a section titled Stealing from the first week or so. The patient stole or attempted to steal food or drink on every opportunity they took. Snow from the window ledges, water from flower vases and food from other patients trays. Ultimately, they had to be confined on a special ward and kept under the closest observation.

[Narrator / Documentary Voice]

Importantly, he didn't run this experiment at the Allen. He ran it at a hospital in Manitoba. This study and others that he published showed that he was willing to make his patients scientifically suffer greatly. But it also shows that he didn't have to hide the fact that a patient he experimented on died. He could be open about this and still be hired by one of the country's most prestigious universities or have his research be funded by one of the world's biggest intelligence agencies, the CIA. Next time on Project Mind Control. So I guess that leads the question of, you know, like, were these all influenced by Dr. Cameron? I mean, like, I can't say, you know, if they were copycat things. Well, does that make the CIA responsible for all of the copycats that happened? I'm Dr. Julia Shaw. Project Mind Control was presented by me and written by me and my producer, Simone Aratta. The executive producers are Elsa Rochester and Louisa Adams. Sound design by Craig Edmondson. Lana's affidavits were read by Martine Richards. The words of Dr. Cameron were read by Paul Livingston. Project Mind Control is an always true crime production.

[Brooke Devard]

Hello? Hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care journeys, wellness tips and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspirational, inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for Naked Beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.

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