Project Mind Control – Episode Summary: "Nuns and Orphans"

Podcast: Project Mind Control
Host: Dr. Julia Shaw (with Always True Crime)
Air Date: April 21, 2026

Episode Overview

In this harrowing episode, criminal psychologist Dr. Julia Shaw investigates the dark intersection of psychiatric experimentation, institutional abuse, and systemic cover-ups in mid-20th-century Canada—focusing on the Duplessis orphans and survivors of Catholic-run institutions. Using survivor testimonies, historical documents, and contemporary activism, the episode uncovers how government policies, financial motives, and the ambitions of influential psychiatrists led to widespread abuses of orphans, unwed mothers, and Indigenous children. The narrative connects personal stories (notably that of Herve Bertrand) with larger historical patterns and international parallels.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Testimonies: Enduring Trauma

• Opening Reflections (01:07–01:29)
  A survivor conveys the physical and emotional scars of abuse, wavering between resentment and attempts at understanding the complicity of caregivers:

  “I'm not saying that I forgive her for it because it's still here and in my body and I remember it physically, but at the same time I understand...Is she really fully responsible for this?” (C, 01:07)

• Herve Bertrand’s Story (04:07–13:16)
  Bertrand describes being abandoned as an infant, growing up in Quebec’s Catholic orphanages, the abrupt transition from education to confinement, and subsequent abuses after reclassification as "mentally deficient":

  “Starting today there will be bars...the sisters would have different uniforms...they would change from black and white to all white, like the nurses uniforms.” (D, 12:00)

2. The Duplessis Orphans Scandal: Financial Motives & Reclassification

• The Quebec government, under Premier Maurice Duplessis, colluded with the Catholic Church to reclassify thousands of healthy orphans as psychiatric patients. This was financially motivated—federal subsidies were much higher for psychiatric patients ($2.25/day) vs. orphans ($0.70/day).

  “Du Plessis realized that Federal subsidies paid $2.25 a day for mental patients versus $0.70 a day for orphans. He shortly thereafter collaborated with the church to wrongly classify thousands of orphans...” (F, 10:12)

• Ending of education for orphans and institution-wide shifts—from teaching sisters to clinical "nurses," installation of bars, and the psychological impact of suddenly being labeled “mentally ill.” (11:53–12:21)

3. Institutional Cruelty and Experimentation

• Physical and Psychological Abuse (15:11–17:31)
  Places of “moral reform” in reality subjected children to strict discipline, forced labor, and frequent abuse:

  “Between 1953 and 1959. Herve says he was raped repeatedly while at the orphanage. His last rape took place during Easter vigil. He was 15...” (B, 15:51)

• Medical Experimentation (17:31–19:21)
  Children described being selected for experiments, including lobotomies and electroshock treatments:

  “They send me to a room...where all the kids who were recalcitrant and didn’t listen...were sold $10 each to make experiments on them.” (D, 17:31)
  “They tried a new kind of lobotomy. They called it reversible lobotomy...they send an electrical shock in your head. And him, he became crazy.” (D, 19:01)

• Alleged Cover-Ups (19:21–21:39)
  Rumors (unsubstantiated) of children being buried in hospital cemeteries or fed to pigs, with enduring suspicions fueled by lack of records and physical evidence.

4. Role of Psychiatry and the Allan Institute

• Dr. Ewan Cameron and McGill University (21:39–24:39)
  Documentation reveals the Allan Memorial Institute’s extensive research (often experimental and invasive) on both adults and children, with collaborations across departments and agencies:

  “The report also mentions children quite a lot...Investigations are going forward on delinquent children living in a residential home...” (G, 23:36)

• Direct Survivors’ Accounts

  “I shouldn’t have been put into the Allen. I was a runaway kid. I did not commit a crime.” – Lana (E, 23:56)
  “They’re going to label you mentally ill. You won’t be able to do anything. You’ll be stuck here for the rest of your days.” – Bertrand recalls being warned (D, 12:36)

5. International Context & Parallels

• References to Irish and Australian Institutions (14:33–15:51) Public apologies from Ireland and Australia highlight the global nature of abuses in institutions for unwed mothers and their children.

  “To you, the mothers who were betrayed by a system that gave you no choice...We apologise.” – Julia Gillard (E, 15:30)

6. Indigenous Children and Systemic Disappearance

• Intersection with Indigenous Child Transfers (24:12–25:50) The same government departments responsible for the orphans’ fate managed Indigenous child transfers, connecting the story to Canada’s broader legacy of cultural genocide and missing children.

  “Many of them never came back. So we want to find them. And then suddenly some of these children...are being found in shallow graves next to the schools.” – Mohawk Mothers representative (E, 24:51)

• 2024 Protests and Ongoing Investigations (25:12–26:11) Recent efforts by survivors and Indigenous activists to identify and memorialize lost children, highlighting demands for recognition and justice.

7. The Legacy and Accountability of Psychiatric Figures

• No Reckoning for Perpetrators (26:11–28:21) Prominent psychiatrists, such as Dr. Cameron, faced no real consequences. Some were honored for decades after their deaths, despite their roles in unethical experimentation:

  “Not only did none of these men have their moment of reckoning, some continue to be seen today as great men of psychiatry, which must be difficult for all those patients whose minds they destroyed without their consent in the name of science.” (B, 28:21)

8. Debunking Mind Control Myths and Lasting Trauma

• Limits of Mind Control (28:21–29:28) Despite conspiracy theories, the idea that minds could be “completely reprogrammed” was rejected by later scientists. However, the secrecy and destruction of records created a legacy of paranoia, confusion, and ongoing pain for survivors.

  “It can instill an omnipresent sense of paranoia, a fear that no matter how hard we look, we can never really learn the truth of the past. But that shouldn’t stop us from trying.” (B, 29:28)

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “I'm not saying that I forgive her for it because it's still here and in my body and I remember it physically, but at the same time I understand ... Is she really fully responsible for this?”
  — Unnamed Survivor (C, 01:07)

• “They send me to a room. In that room is where all the kids who were recalcitrant and didn't listen...were sold $10 each to make experiments on them.”
  — Herve Bertrand (D, 04:16 & 17:31)

• “You won't be able to do anything. You'll be stuck here for the rest of your days.”
  — Warning to Bertrand by a nun (D, 12:36)

• “It really bothers me that this happened because you know, when you have a child and you don't know who he is, it's very, very hard to live with that.”
  — Lana Ponting (E, 09:17)

• “Not only did none of these men have their moment of reckoning, some continue to be seen today as great men of psychiatry, which must be difficult for all those patients whose minds they destroyed without their consent in the name of science.”
  — Dr. Julia Shaw (B, 28:21)

• “But that shouldn’t stop us from trying.”
  — Dr. Julia Shaw, on pursuing the truth (B, 29:28)

Key Timestamps

• 01:07–01:29 – Survivor’s personal account of trauma and ambiguity around blame
• 04:07–06:32 – Herve Bertrand on early life in Montreal orphanages
• 10:12–10:29 – Federal funding incentives for classifying orphans as mental patients
• 12:00–12:21 – Transition from orphanage to psychiatric institution
• 15:11–17:31 – Bertrand’s account of abuse and sexual assault
• 17:31–19:21 – Details of medical experimentation on children (lobotomies, electroshocks)
• 21:39–24:39 – McGill report: expansion of experiments and child psychiatry
• 24:51–25:12 – Testimony from Indigenous activists about missing children
• 28:21–29:28 – Reflections on the absence of accountability and enduring myths

Conclusion

"Nuns and Orphans" offers a deeply disturbing yet necessary examination of how vulnerable Canadian children—and by extension, similarly-situated children in other countries—were subjected to institutional violence, unethical medical experimentation, and bureaucratic indifference. The episode skillfully blends survivor voices, historical context, and ongoing activism, urging listeners to remember, uncover, and learn from these atrocities—even when records are erased and direct answers may never come.