
The PROOF team looks back on their first trip back to Kalamazoo in the investigation of Earl O’Byrne’s murder — and checks in with Jeff Titus, three years after his exoneration.
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Susan
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Jacinda
Yeah, I think that's something probably all of us have experienced. When it's time or you feel like you're ready to go talk to someone, it's really hard to find a therapist that will take your insurance.
Susan
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Jacinda
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Susan
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Jacinda
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Susan
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Kevin
Hey, Sal. Hank.
Jeff
What's going on?
Kevin
We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy.
Jeff
Think something's up?
Kevin
You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.
Jacinda
Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
Susan
Hello and welcome to this week's sidebar. We're here to discuss episode seven of season three of Proof. I'm here with Jacinda and Kevin. Hey, guys.
Jacinda
Hey, Susan.
Kevin
Hey, Susan.
Susan
So far in the season before this, you've heard about Scott's case and his trial. He's confused. Conviction happened afterwards. And in this episode, you heard about how our investigation began in Kalamazoo. Now, this was not the first trip that was made. Justin and Kevin did go out to Alabama to see Stacy before this, but this was our first time being back in Kalamazoo since. Since Jeff's case. And we started talking witnesses out there. As you heard in the show, one of the questions we had going into Kalamazoo that time was, what did this guy named James Long look like? And we had spent a lot of time thinking about it, didn't know anything. And I think part of me was certain that when we did get an answer, if we got one, we were going to find out he looked nothing like the man outside the bike shop.
Kevin
But he looked everything like the man outside.
Susan
But he looked everything like the man. Yeah. So I was like, it's going to be an easy theory to disprove. We'll just knock it out, move on the next one. And no, it turned out that was not the case. We also found out, though, that not only did James Long look like the man outside the bike shop, the two co workers that we spoke to had both always kind of thought it was him.
Jacinda
Yeah, I mean, they always had suspicions or a bad feeling about it, and they always wondered if he could have had something to do with it. But like a lot of witnesses we talk to, once someone is arrested and convicted, they assume there's evidence proving that person did it, sort of.
Susan
But both Lori and Karen both said, like, we never understood why he got convicted. They weren't saying he was innocent. They were like, were always kind of confused by that.
Jacinda
Yeah, they didn't know that they can't sit through the trial. So they had questions they didn't know. But they're like, it's odd, it's weird. Earl wouldn't have opened the door for him. Who is this guy? You know, like it didn't make sense, but it's like they just trusted the outcome.
Kevin
You find in, I think, every wrongful conviction case that there are crucial things that fall through the cracks, for lack
Susan
of a better term.
Kevin
And I think that the interview that the two of you did with Karen Raymond, where it becomes clear to her that nobody knew, particularly nobody in the cold case team knew that she suspected James Long might have had something to do with it sort of floored her. I think there are these moments that just keep falling through the cracks for Scott Baldwin and for other people that are wrongfully convicted where, you know, if somebody picks up on them, things are very different. You know, same thing with the bank bags. But maybe if everybody knew that James Long, you know, was in the minds of two of his co workers, someone that they had questions about, and o that he actually looked like the man who was seen outside the bike shop that night, things would have been a little different. But they didn't actually end up even seeing him. I mean, he's in Alabama, and the cold case folks don't even see him face to face. It's just a funny.
Susan
What's funny is they could have gone to see him, though. So Stacy in person. So it would have been a very short detour, hardly a detour at all for them.
Kevin
I don't remember exactly when we all realized that Stacy and James Long were, like, a half an hour apart, if that. But I was like, wait, what?
Susan
That's convenient.
Kevin
Convenient and just stunning. Like, they both leave Kalamazoo, and they end up in this particular point. Like, for all we know, they could have been shopping at the same stores
Susan
for decades for the original detectives in the case, even if they didn't know there were suspicions about James Long. Just as a matter of, like, basic routine, the last person to see the victim alive, you kind of got to check out. And James was the last one to see him alive when he locked up the store the day before. But when they question, like, Laurie, who was with James when they found the body, they don't go into any detail. They apparently never tried to get her to even comment on what her coworker had been acting like, whereas she recalls it as being instantly sort of, you know, kind of alarmed, like something's not quite right with how he's responding to the fact our boss is here dead in his house.
Jacinda
Yeah, she said it was weird. She sees some blood on the couple drops of blood when they're opening the door, and she's like, something's wrong. And James just goes the other direction, and she heads to check on Earl. And she always just felt like his reaction wasn't right, something was off about his reaction. Now, you know, we're doing the same things we've heard before about, like, you know, Scott didn't react right when Madison arrested him, or Jeff didn't react right when he was sitting in the lawn reading a book. It's not. But it is what it is. Right.
Susan
But I think it's worth noting, too. It's not like, is it proof of guilt? Absolutely not. But it's worth noting that someone has no reaction to finding someone bludgeoned to death.
Kevin
The other differences are. And I don't know if I sort of said this before in a previous sidebar or not, but I think that people's reactions are difficult to sort of gauge, but if you know them, it's easier to make that determination. I don't think that Rich Madison knew Scott Baldwin. I would say that Laurie knew James Long to a certain degree. So you can't base everything on it, but either way, no, that's a good point.
Jacinda
That's a good point. That if you know someone and you know them well and you've seen them react to other situations, then you probably can gauge whether a reaction is typical or not.
Kevin
Jacinda, I've known you long enough that I can tell if you like your Manhattan based upon your reaction.
Jacinda
Susan, can you tell?
Susan
Not really, actually.
Jacinda
I mean, I'll drink it.
Susan
I've never seen her not drink it.
Jeff
Yeah, exactly.
Kevin
Right. So you have to look for the subtle signs that there's a problem.
Susan
But there's also the fact that, like, even aside from reactions inside from, like, thoughts and suspicions of coworkers, according to Sharon. Detective Sharon Wheeler's report, there was no blood on Earla Burns keys, which is just kind of an offhand comment in one report. And yet it seems a pretty critical a case changing issue. Like, why was no one freaking out about the fact that a guy whose hands are just coated and caked in blood could not possibly have used those keys to lock up the store after the assault?
Jacinda
Yeah, I mean, the crime scene photos are really, really bloody. There is a lot of blood all over.
Susan
Like, he would have. He would have left blood on the keys. It's just full stop. There's no way he handled those keys and did not leave blood there.
Kevin
There are a lot of little sort of points in this case. Right. A lot of little pieces of evidence that have to be strun. And I think that you two did this sort of amazing job of looking at these points. And when you were explaining it all to me, it was like, oh, wow, like, look at that. You know, this crime scene and the bank bags and the keys and all of this stuff. But it was all information that was there that people could have put together.
Susan
Yeah.
Kevin
And I think that a lot of times people just. In this case, people were putting the puzzle together incorrectly or not even realizing all the pieces that were there. The fact that his keys are there and they don't have blood on them, you know, if his keys were gone.
Susan
Okay, yeah. Someone locked the bathroom after they left and took the keys, but that didn't happen.
Kevin
Yeah. So it's gotta be a pretty big clue at that point that you at least have to investigate further.
Susan
Yes, well, they did investigate further to the extent they went and polygraphed the employees and they all passed. So the end. The same reason that Nutter was cleared too. He passed the polygraph. So the end.
Kevin
I think some of my favorite memories of Kalamazoo is just having the two of you lean out the window Is your name Alan?
Jacinda
I don't know how. How many people we asked a lot. Like, finding Alan has proven to be very, very difficult.
Susan
Yeah. But also he was around because we kept talking to people who had seen him not too long ago, so we knew he was around. We just never had any luck ever.
Kevin
I mean, we definitely, you know, had to look like people who were trying to buy drugs or something would be, like, slowly, like, pulling up to gas stations, like, staring at someone who is, like, panhandling or sitting out there, like, over and over again.
Susan
Our theory was that people, like, at the gas station, when we go check and see if he had been there, they must have thought we were, like, social workers or something, because they never asked, but they just kind of, like, rolled with it. We showed up like, have you seen this guy around lately? We're trying to find him, trying to
Kevin
give him a summons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was interesting experience, that's for sure.
Susan
And the worst part about finding him was that we knew next time went back to Kalamazoo, we would have to keep on looking.
Jacinda
It's important to find him because we want to hear his story in his words.
Kevin
He also looks like the man outside the building. Right. And he has a history of robbing stores on that street. And now there's a connection to. He's having an affair with the woman where the bloody antique wrench is found. I mean, I think our sudden interest in James Long didn't make us any less interested in Alan Nader.
Jacinda
Yeah, exactly.
Susan
We did speak to Renee, though, his girlfriend, at the time that the murder happened. Well, girlfriend could be putting it too strongly. I remember one time we were having a debate over side pieces versus main piece.
Jacinda
She came up with a side piece.
Susan
Right.
Jacinda
He had a lot of side pieces.
Kevin
Yeah, I. I do remember the debate because I. I remember the two of you explaining it to me and. And telling me what you felt the definition of each was.
Susan
Yeah. Which one? Women in his life are which. And Renee, I 1000% believe what she told us. Like, she's been under suspicion, too, for, you know, as long as Nutter has, with a lot of people really, truly believing she's helping cover this up. And I walk away from that interview feeling very sure that that's not what happened. She's been accused this for a long time for. For no real basis and partially because of confusion over how many girlfriends Nutter actually had. Right.
Jacinda
So when people are calling in tips about Alan's girlfriend faked an alibi, or Alan's girlfriend drove him there Detectives assume they're talking about her, and it turns out he had multiple girlfriends, and it could have been any one of them.
Susan
What also seems to have happened is that. So, like, one or two nights before Earl O. Byrne was killed, Nutter broke into a John Deere store and stole all the weed whackers. And Renee was with him when this happened. She was in the car, and she was going like, what the heck are you doing? That was not her plan for the night. And it seems like she did go tell people, like, oh, my God, I was with Nutter. And he broke into the store last night. And. And it was so close in time to Earla Byrne's murder that some witnesses later came forward and said, hey, Alan's girlfriend Renee told us that he broke into the shop that night and did the crime.
Kevin
Right. Because it's so close in the timeline that by the time she saw some of these people, it was the day or two after the bike shop.
Susan
Yep. And their story, and part of why I feel confident that they were talking about the John Deere store, not the bike shop, is how these witnesses interviews sort of evolved over time. To me, it seems very clear that when they first start talking about what Renee said, they're describing the John Deere robbery. And it's only after several interviews with detectives and private investigators that their stories start to shift, and they're now talking about the bike shop explicitly when it did not start off that way.
Kevin
Well, one of the things that dawned on me at the time about this Allen Nutter situation, when you explained to me about the John Deere store, it's not that different than Scott, meaning that they're both stealing things. They're both taking things that don't belong to them, and they have a habit of doing that. So when you sort of put them in proximity to when something else happened, it becomes plausible in some people's minds that they've done it. And I think that, you know, in Alan's sort of M.O. he's literally robbed a store down the street two days or a day before this happens. Yeah. He's a suspect, and he looks just like the guy.
Susan
And their tips called in saying he used to work at the bike shop.
Kevin
Yeah. I mean, so, like, this is someone we need to speak to, and there's a lot pointing in that direction. I also want to find out how is it that this guy has so many women in his life? Like, there's just.
Susan
That's a mystery we never did solve. You know, I think I'm not typically a picky person when it comes to food or things like that. There's one thing I am incredibly picky about.
Jacinda
Well, what's that, Susan?
Susan
That's how my water tastes.
Jacinda
You know, I'm the same way. My water tastes a lot like swamp.
Susan
Some places just have really gross water. It's unfortunate, but when I'm somewhere that has swamp water, I'm definitely not drinking out of the tap.
Jacinda
Yeah, but you know, we're not alone. Did you know that three out of four US Homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water?
Susan
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Susan
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Jacinda
Is that why you love quince so much?
Susan
That is why I love quince so much.
Jacinda
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Susan
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Susan
That's quince.com proof. This was our second case we worked on in Kalamazoo, the first, of course being Jeff Titus. And last week was the three year anniversary of Jeff's exoneration.
Jacinda
I took a moment to catch up with Jeff and to ask him about the last three years and his thoughts on our current season of Proof. Here's what he had to say. Jeff, last week was your three year anniversary from getting out of prison. What have the last three years been like for you?
Jeff
It's been ups and downs. I've first got out, then June 1st I got exonerated, which took a world of stuff off of me and everything and cleared. And then I bought me a house with 10 acres and I've been working on greeting cards. Then I kept trying to find someone to go out with, but bad luck. Once I said I was in prison, it was, well, do you there's people who still think I'm guilty.
Jacinda
I was going to ask, is it hard for people to believe that you're innocent?
Jeff
There's those that totally believe it, strongly support it, but there are others who say, oh, he just got out on technicality. Even though I'm exonerated.
Jacinda
How does it make you feel when people question your innocence?
Jeff
It hurts that they can't see the truth. And I tell everybody, I said, Jacinda and them have got a new podcast out. If you see this new podcast, it reflects back to my case all the time. And what went on with me is going on with that guy.
Jacinda
You'd met Scott Baldwin when the two of you were at Lakeland together.
Jeff
Correct?
Jacinda
And there's some other people in the podcast. You'll hear about who you knew inside. How did you, you know, when you met Scott? I don't know if he told you he was innocent too or not. He didn't go around talking about it a lot, I don't think.
Susan
No.
Jacinda
Compared to you, Jeff. Everyone says Jeff. Jeff talked about it all the time.
Jeff
Oh, I do.
Susan
Yeah.
Jacinda
But even In. But even on the inside?
Jeff
Yep, even on the inside. I. You know, I'm an innocent guy. There's six people I think I met at Lakeland who were all arrested by the Kalamazoo county cold case team. Yeah, but. But six of them all right there at one time.
Jacinda
So have you been listening to the podcast?
Jeff
Yes, I have.
Jacinda
And what's it like hearing, you know, someone else's story that's so similar to your own?
Jeff
It's so similar, it's pathetic. I mean, it's like everything was rehearsed from, let's say, my case or their case, and they went right through and just did that with everybody come back and question you again and again.
Jacinda
You and I talked about Scott's release and how different it was from when you got out.
Jeff
I know he was in bad health. At least he got to. I don't see some of his family members, but he did feel freedom a little.
Susan
A little.
Jacinda
Yeah. But you know better than anybody, you know how desperate you are to get out and then to not be able to enjoy it. It's just heartbreaking.
Jeff
Yeah.
Jacinda
As people listen to the podcast and hear these stories, similar stories to your own, what do you want people to keep in mind as they're listening?
Jeff
Definitely keep an open mind. Keep an open mind, because I'm not the only one. Something's wrong, and you need to look at it, but have that open mind and listen to it.
Jacinda
All right, Jeff, well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me.
Jeff
Oh, okay. Okay, thanks. Bye. And continue listening to the podcast. There's cases out there, and you be the judge and listen to them. Y' all have a nice day.
Jacinda
Thanks, Jeff.
Kevin
I will say that as an aside to all of the sort of crazy investigations and long nights we were working in Kalamazoo, there was a night where Jeff met us, and the three of us and Susan's baby and Jeff all had dinner. And there was something incredibly nice about that. You remember one. It's how the three of us all got together working on stuff. But also when you see him sitting there having dinner and holding Susan's baby, you start to realize why all those long hours end up being worth it. Because you can help change someone's life.
Susan
If you told me in 2020 that one day Jeff would be bouncing my baby on his knee, I'd be. I would not even. I'm glad we're in this reality and this would happen, but I would not have guessed that would be how things would have played out.
Kevin
There are some actually pretty good pictures from that. Maybe we'll post one just in. If I remember correctly, didn't Jake from
Susan
from season two Jake called. Yeah, he did while we were there on video.
Kevin
Yeah.
Jacinda
So they were able to talk for
Kevin
a minute and we were able to talk for a minute with Jake and and also Jeff was able to say hi to hi to Jake, who hopefully one day soon we'll all be having dinner with as well.
Susan
So next week Kevin Jacinda returned to Alabama to talk to Stacy again. And maybe James Long.
Jacinda
You've been listening to Proof Sidebar a podcast by Red Marble Media in association with Glassbox Media. Send us your questions and comments@proof crimepodmail.com follow us everywhere with the handle @proof crimepod and on our website, proofcrimepod.com thanks so much for listening.
Kevin
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Susan
I bit down on his hand and
Kevin
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Jacinda
I began to hear the breathing and growling of what could only come from a monster.
Kevin
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In this Sidebar episode, hosts Susan Simpson, Jacinda Davis, and producer Kevin discuss behind-the-scenes details from the investigation into the murder at the bike shop, elaborating on episode 7 of the main season. They spotlight the overlooked suspect James Long, the process of revisiting key witnesses in Kalamazoo, persistent investigative hurdles, and parallels between current and previous wrongful conviction cases—especially that of exonerated former suspect Jeff Titus, who joins for a moving interview reflecting on life after prison and the ongoing need to question wrongful convictions.
The tone throughout is informal yet investigative, balancing humor and camaraderie with serious reflection on justice, wrongful convictions, and the deeply personal costs to those affected. The hosts, true to form, maintain their empathetic and deeply curious approach to reinvestigation, never losing sight of the human stories behind each case.
This Sidebar pulls back the curtain on the painstaking and often frustrating work of wrongful conviction reinvestigation. Key players recount overlooked evidence, misallocated suspicion, and the ripple effects of investigative oversights—echoing lessons from prior seasons and cases like Jeff Titus’s exoneration. Listeners are reminded to keep an open mind and remain critical of official narratives—because, as Jeff and the hosts agree, “something’s wrong, and you need to look at it.”