Proof: A True Crime Podcast

Episode 19 – Russian Roulette | Two Years Later
Release Date: December 9, 2024
Podcast by: Red Marble Media

Overview

This episode is a live recording from the Rome International Film Festival, bringing together hosts and exonerees from Season 1, Lee Clark and Josh Cain, for a two-year post-exoneration reflection. It explores the difficult realities faced after wrongful conviction, the ongoing fight for support and compensation, and the power of community in helping rebuild lives. The discussion also connects to ongoing investigations into other wrongful convictions, notably Season 2’s Jake Silva, and highlights the challenges and small victories in the broader movement for justice reform.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reflections on Exoneration: Life After Release

[05:01–15:00]

• The Shock and Struggle of Reentry: Both Lee and Josh describe how difficult it was to reenter society after 25 years in prison.
  • Lee Clark: “When I walked out, I wasn’t expecting things to be as difficult as they were... All the excitement is with me, that stopped being released. There’s nothing like that. I’m still riding that cloud today... But eventually I had to come down to earth though, and check out the terrain and see what was really around me. And looking around, it was rough.” [05:26]
• Technology Gap: Learning to use smartphones, social media, and even hotel room keys posed unexpected hurdles.
  • Lee: “You give me a phone. You just gave me something that might as well be a bomb.” [06:13]
  • Josh: “You know where my room key’s at right now? It’s in the room. I just realized I don’t even have him.” [09:44]
• No Support System: Unlike parolees, exonerees get no government assistance—no ID, no work history, no counseling.
  • “They weren’t out on parole. They were wrongfully convicted... They had no work experience. You show up someplace. What have you been doing the last 25 years? ‘I was wrongfully convicted of murder.’” – Susan Jacinda [09:04]

2. Community and Unexpected Help

[11:53–13:01]

• The Power of Strangers: Good Samaritans offered help, like providing jobs and a place to live, demonstrating community impact.

3. Employment & Daily Life

[16:01–27:12]

• Lee’s Lawn Care Business: Lee recounts starting a landscaping/lawn care business and getting his first break through a local who was moved by his story.
  • “I started me a landscaping business, a lawn care business, and I had the biggest ace in the hole right here of my dad. 45 years in tree business. Can’t go wrong with that.” – Lee Clark [16:30]
• Gradual Progress: Both Lee and Josh emphasize that life remains a struggle but slowly feels more manageable.
  • “It’s a daily struggle. ... I mean, you build up to everything. It’s a slow process with everything except the time. That’s one thing I’ve noticed. The time just flies.” – Lee Clark [24:19]
• Josh’s First Driver’s License and Employment: Josh discusses finally getting his first license and learning daily logistics all over again.
  • “Josh did not have his driver’s license when he was sent to prison, so he never had it. So he got his first driver’s license ever just a few months ago.” – Leigh Ann [26:39]

4. The Fight for Compensation

[19:18–23:29]

• Georgia’s Flawed System: Unlike many states, Georgia has no comprehensive compensation law for exonerees. Each case demands personal political sponsorship, which isn't always attainable.
  • “I want you to know, ma’am, that I’m thankful to you [Rep. Katie Dempsey] for everything that you’ve done, everything you’re continuing to do.” – Lee Clark [20:06]
• Failed Legislative Battles: Despite heroic advocacy from local politicians, the state senate blocked recent compensation bills.
  • “She did this wonderful job and proposed this bill... and it was voted down.” – Susan Jacinda [22:43]
• Contrast with Other States: Michigan, for example, quickly compensated exonerated individuals such as Jeff Titus.

5. How the Case Was Solved: Luck, Persistence, and Human Connection

[29:33–41:31]

• Key Witness Recantations: Angela Bruce’s recantation and the discovery that Charlie’s testimony was misinterpreted were pivotal.
  • “I remember that she stopped looking at us... she looked at the recorders as she was actually talking to them and said, ‘I’m sorry.’” – Kevin [30:55]
  • Charlie, the deaf witness, never actually corroborated the state’s case; his story had been dramatically misrepresented.
  • “He was talking about a totally different event that happened years before... but Mike was able to talk to him. And Charlie was so confident, like, once he could actually talk and be heard, he was like, 'No, that’s not what happened.'” – Kevin [36:49]
• Importance of Serendipity: The right witnesses, a dedicated volunteer interpreter, and fortuitous timing allowed for breakthroughs.
  • “You don’t just need a lot of hard work, you need a lot of good fortune. It has to sort of fall into place.” – Susan Jacinda [37:29]
  • “You need good fortune and you need people who work hard.” – Susan Jacinda [40:38]

6. Current Status and Ongoing Advocacy

[41:52–46:59]

• Season 2 Update (“Jake Silva Case”): Key evidence was found and is now being tested for DNA. Awareness from listeners boosts his chances.
• Message to Awaiting Prisoners: Lee and Josh offer advice and hope to Jake and others still fighting for exoneration.
  • “Just always know this. You didn’t do it. ... if you know you didn’t do it, just know you didn’t do it, and you will be venerated.” – Josh Cain [45:00]
  • “Stay strong, man, and know that these ladies out here, out here fighting for you.” – Lee Clark [45:14]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On adjustment:

  • “You give me a phone. You just gave me something that might as well be a bomb because I’m looking at that thing like it’s getting ready to go off.” – Lee Clark [06:13]

• The reality of release:

  • “They had no work experience. You show up someplace. What have you been doing the last 25 years? ‘I was wrongfully convicted of murder.’ Yeah, sure you were.” – Susan Jacinda [09:04]

• On the pain of flawed justice:

  • “What was done to him [Charlie], the way he was used, that’s just straight wrong. That’s just evil at its core right there. Use somebody with a disability like that... I do, you know, I don’t understand that. I won’t understand that.” – Lee Clark [36:49]

• On rebuilding:

  • “It’s a daily struggle… you build up to everything. It’s a slow process with everything except the time. That’s one thing I’ve noticed. The time just flies.” – Lee Clark [24:19]

• On community impact:

  • “Someone reached out to us several months ago, a man from Georgia who had listened to the podcast... he said, hey, I listened to the podcast. It really touched my heart. And I own a hotel, and I’d love to have Josh come live at the hotel and help him get work.” – Leigh Ann Cook [11:53]

• Encouragement to support:

  • “The biggest thing I think could be a help is write to them, the Senate… just reach out and write them. I encourage them, just reach out and write them… maybe some phone calls.” – Lee Clark [58:34]

• On hope and loss:

  • “Hope is very, very dangerous because it will crush you.” – Jake Silva (relayed by Leigh Ann Cook) [44:43]

Important Timestamps

• 01:40: Moderator (Leigh Ann Cook) introduces hosts, purpose, and audience energy.
• 05:01: Lee describes reentry shock, struggle with daily functioning.
• 09:03: Hosts discuss lack of post-exoneration support/benefits.
• 16:01: Lee recounts starting a landscaping business.
• 19:18: Exonerees’ ongoing battle for compensation in Georgia.
• 29:33: Discussion of how key witness recantations overturned the case.
• 30:55: Emotional recounting of Angela Bruce’s apology on tape.
• 34:26: Tracking and clearing “Charlie,” the deaf witness, with help from interpreter Mike Burton.
• 41:52: Update on Jake Silva case and call for continued advocacy.
• 45:00: Lee and Josh give hope to current exoneree Jake Silva.
• 48:02: Audience member (Rep. Katie Dempsey) explains Georgia’s difficult path to compensation.
• 52:59: Reflection on the importance of peer support among exonerees.

Calls to Action and How to Help

• For Listeners/Community:
  • Hire Lee’s landscaping business; refer work to Josh and Lee.
  • Offer practical help: e.g., website design, job referrals.
  • Contact Georgia legislators to support the compensation bill for exonerees.
• For Reform Advocates:
  • Raise public awareness; amplify their stories.
  • Advocate for legislative changes and support networks for exonerees.

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation blends humor, candor, sorrow, and resilience. The lived experiences of Lee and Josh illuminate both the trauma of wrongful conviction and the determination to build a new life, supported by loving families and communities. While legislative inaction is frustrating, the overall message is one of hope through solidarity, small victories, and relentless truth-telling.

For more, visit proofcrimepod.com and follow @proofcrimepod on all platforms. For case tips or questions, email proofcrimepod@gmail.com.