Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

Episode 13 – Is #FreeSpeech in America Hanging by a Thread??

Date: September 20, 2025
Hosts: Darryl Cooper & Scott Horton

Episode Overview

In this episode, Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton examine whether free speech in America is under existential threat, weaving through recent high-profile controversies around cancel culture, assassination, campus violence, and government censorship. The conversation takes on the psychology of political conflict, media bias, and the echo chambers that foster paranoia and conspiratorial thinking. Against the backdrop of Charlie Kirk's assassination and Jimmy Kimmel’s FCC ouster, they discuss the broader implications for American political culture, public debate, and cycles of escalation.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter and Announcements (02:38–09:01)

• Darryl and Scott catch up after flights, joke about aging, and discuss Scott's recent Integrity Media Excellence in Journalism award, which he won alongside Matt Taibbi, Jimmy Dore, Julian Assange, and others.
• Scott plugs Charles Goyette’s forthcoming book "Empire of Lies," which the Libertarian Institute will publish, noting its unique perspective compared to his own writing.
• Darryl updates listeners on his sprawling upcoming podcast episode on the Germans in WWI and WWII, highlighting the grueling realities faced by soldiers in the trenches.

2. Audience Q&A: 'Defend the Guard' Campaign (13:43–17:13)

• Listeners ask how to support anti-war efforts like Defend the Guard. Scott and Darryl champion state-level activism and phone-banking, calling it the most important antiwar move in America today.

  “There's nothing more important to the anti-war movement in America right now than the Defend the Guard thing.” — Scott (14:23)

3. Modern Cancel Culture & Media Martyrdom: Jimmy Kimmel & Charlie Kirk (17:35–27:08)

• The hosts consider whether Jimmy Kimmel's firing over controversial remarks and FCC involvement marks a new phase of government censorship or just a continuation of long-standing dynamics.
• Refer to Ron Paul's principled stance against censorship—irrespective of political team—and critique “ratcheting” government power (the “ratchet effect,” per Robert Higgs).

  “Every time there's a crisis, which is always, the government gets more and more and more power.” — Scott (19:39)

• Discuss media as an arm of government due to federal regulation and licensing, referencing Ayn Rand's critique of nationalized airwaves.

4. Generational Change, Political Trust & Free Speech After Kirk’s Assassination (25:35–29:39)

• Darryl laments how younger generations take cynicism about politics and institutions for granted, having grown up amid chaos and delegitimization—while older generations struggle to “grieve the loss” of the more stable past.
• Scott speculates on the chilling effect of Charlie Kirk's assassination, noting both its rarity and symbolic weight.

  "We're not getting rid of our First Amendment. We have to keep it." — Scott (27:08)

• Darryl is torn on the government's role in responding, fearing both violence in response to state inaction and overreach if the state cracks down.

5. Debate on Hate Speech and Censorship: What is Protected? (29:39–33:11)

• Break down what legally constitutes protected speech (direct incitement to violence), emphasizing the U.S. context versus calls for new "hate speech" categories.
• Praise right-wing figures who refuse to compromise principle in crisis: Matt Walsh, Orin McIntyre, Tucker Carlson.

  “They're denying your very humanity when they're trying to deny your freedom of speech.” — Scott relaying Tucker Carlson (31:20)

• Point to the role of tech censorship (notably Twitter’s pre-Musk “tyranny”) in shaping the political landscape and potentially swinging elections.

6. Trump, Russia, and American (Dis)honor in Foreign Policy (33:11–36:46)

• Discuss Trump’s interest but likely incapability in ending the Ukraine war.
• Darryl underscores America’s squandered trust post-Cold War—how violating agreements has left the U.S. unable to establish credible peacemaking.

  “I wish our leaders would take more seriously... our national honor, like, our word is our bond as a country.” — Darryl (34:43)

7. Conspiracy Thinking as Right-Wing Distraction (41:06–46:42)

• Darryl warns against the right’s obsession with conspiracy theories, viewing it as both understandable and corrosive. He cites his Twitter battles over the claim that Israel killed Charlie Kirk, criticizing “starting with the conclusion, then fitting the facts.”

  "You've got to start with: we don't know anything... Now what evidence do we actually have?... You cannot abandon reason and you cannot abandon the requirement to think and speak and act with a sense of justice." — Darryl (45:06)

• Reflect on how conspiracy culture can immobilize political action and mirrors Middle Eastern political dynamics where theory replaces organizing.

8. Investigating Major Events: Independence, Patience, and Epistemic Humility (46:42–51:40)

• Both advocate for independent investigation while urging caution against premature conclusions, especially in the fog of high-profile incidents.

  “Just hold your horses on concluding things until you can be more careful and be more right.” — Scott (51:40)

9. Campus Politics, Free Speech, and the Rise of “Hate Speech” Laws (59:13–64:27)

• Respond to news of pressures to crack down on “anti-Israel” sentiment and hate speech, warning of bipartisan misuse to stifle dissent.
• Discuss recent controversies over campus speech (e.g., Texas A&M firing professors for ideological reasons), proposing defunding or rethinking the role of liberal arts in higher education.
• Critique the university system for saddling students with debt and “selling a dream” that rarely materializes, creating perverse incentives and misplaced blame on capitalism.

10. Historical Parallels: Counter-Revolution & Systemic Legitimacy (64:39–71:26)

• Field a question on whether Kirk’s assassination could spark a counter-revolution, comparing 2020s present to 1968’s fracturing after RFK and MLK assassinations.

  “They killed the guy who wanted to bring down the temperature, and so now you get the next thing.” — Darryl (67:51)

• Argue that when public faith in “established channels” snaps, violence and chaos can quickly proliferate—urging political leaders to recognize how fragile the thread of legitimacy is.

11. Decentralization, Constitutionalism, and Reclaiming the Right (71:26–80:15)

• Scott and Darryl call for decentralization as a pressure-release valve for polarization, arguing it can lower stakes in national politics and appeal across left/right lines.

  “If all of a sudden it doesn't matter quite as much who gets elected president...you can bring down the temperature.” — Darryl (75:29)

• Scott ties this to the project of “reclaiming the right” with paleo-conservative, non-interventionist roots, seeing the tide as slowly, inevitably shifting.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cancel Culture and Censorship:

  • “Every time there's a crisis, which is always, the government gets more and more and more power.” — Scott (19:39)
  • “You can only bring a knife to a gunfight so many times before you get tired of getting shot… But you bring a gun to a gunfight, now everyone gets shot.” — Darryl (19:07)

• On Generational Attitudes:

  • “The Zoomers have been born into this chaos... this is just the world to them.” — Darryl (24:33)

• On Conspiracy Theories:

  • “Their heads are just so full of conspiracy theories that they cannot think straight about just regional politics or anything like that.” — Darryl on Middle Eastern politics and comparison to the US right (45:58)

• On Decentralization:

  • “Decentralization, it has the added benefit… You can sell that to them… It’s the biggest way you could bring down the temperature.” — Darryl (75:29)

Timestamps to Key Segments

• Awards, Intros, Announcements (02:38–09:01)
• Defend the Guard Q&A and Activism (13:43–17:13)
• Jimmy Kimmel, Media Censorship & Ratchet Effect (17:35–25:35)
• Charlie Kirk’s Assassination & Generational Discussion (25:35–29:39)
• Hate Speech, Legal Definitions, & Tech Censorship (29:39–33:11)
• Ukraine, Trust, and US Foreign Policy (33:11–36:46)
• Conspiracy Theories as Distraction (41:06–46:42)
• Patient Investigation & Concluding Early (46:42–51:40)
• Campus, Liberal Arts & Systemic Rot (59:13–64:27)
• Historical Parallels: Civil Unrest (64:39–71:26)
• Decentralization & Constitutionalism (71:26–80:15)
• Final Q&A, Closing Banter (80:15–End)

Conclusion

Scott and Darryl present a nuanced, often sobering look at the fragile state of American free speech, stitched together by lived history, audience participation, and personal anecdotes. They urge patience, principle over partisanship, and a renewed push for decentralization and honest inquiry—casting the fight for free speech as a necessary, never-ending struggle in an era where every side seeks to weaponize both government power and market pressure.

For listeners:

• Learn more about Defend the Guard: https://defendtheguard.us
• Scott Horton's latest books: "Provoked," "Fool’s Errand," and "Enough Already"
• Find Darryl’s work: Martyr Made podcast (new multi-part episode coming soon)
• Recent interviews reference: Dr. Anas Ahmed (Palestinian-American surgeon in Gaza); William Van Wagenen ("Creative Chaos" on the Arab Spring)
• Watch or join live streams: youtube.com/provoked or /antiwarradio

End of Episode Summary