Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

EP:20 – Pumpkins, Podcasts, And People Getting Mad Online

Release Date: November 1, 2025
Hosts: Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

Episode Overview

This episode of "Provoked" explores the psychology of conflict, cycles of online drama, and the ways in which political gatekeeping and identity politics fuel polarization. Hosts Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton discuss reactions to provocative interviews (especially Tucker Carlson's conversation with Nick Fuentes), the changing landscape of the American right, generational shifts in online discourse, and the enduring power of scapegoating in history—from ancient times to current events. The conversation weaves together reflections on current affairs, media influence, and deep dives into how groups and individuals are drawn into conflict.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Updates & Media Projects

[01:28] – [05:41]

• Both hosts open with light banter about Halloween and personal projects:
  • Scott Horton promotes his new "Scott Horton Academy," an educational initiative covering in-depth foreign policy courses.
  • Darryl Cooper shares the overwhelming response to his latest history podcast episode, “Enemy: The Germans’ War,” noting its rapid success despite challenging and niche subject matter.
    • “It's been out like two weeks… over half a million downloads already…for a history episode …that’s massive numbers.” — Daryl Cooper [03:42]
  • The hosts discuss the importance of letting historical actors "speak for themselves" when covering topics far removed from personal experience.

2. On Channeling Firsthand Perspective

[06:09] – [07:34]

• Darryl reads a vivid quote from E.B. Sledge’s "With the Old Breed" about the horror of artillery bombardment, emphasizing the irreplaceable value of firsthand testimony in communicating the realities of war.

“To be under a barrage of prolonged shelling simply magnified all the terrible physical and emotional effects… Artillery was an invention of hell....it would all just be bullshit, dude. Like, you just got to read that from a guy who was there.” — Darryl Cooper quoting E.B. Sledge [06:47]

3. Media Backlash and Online Polarization

[07:34] – [12:57]

• The conversation pivots to online controversies, particularly surrounding Tucker Carlson’s interview with Nick Fuentes.
• Discusses how major organizations (like the Heritage Foundation) and right-wing media are handling high-profile, controversial guests.
• Heritage Foundation’s head surprises by robustly defending Carlson against accusations, resisting pressure to "cancel" him, which is seen as indicative of shifting attitudes on the right.

“To see them even… put up a strong defense. I think it’s a great sign of the times...” — Darryl Cooper [08:48]

• Cooper argues that outright ostracism of controversial figures (like Fuentes) has failed, noting the resilience and growth of their audiences even after attempts to deplatform them:
  • “...ostracizing him, trying to pound him down the box and kick him to the curb has not worked, and it's never going to work.” — Darryl Cooper [11:51]

4. Political Evolution and the Limits of Gatekeeping

[13:44] – [21:56]

• Hosts explore how internet culture has evolved, making traditional forms of political “gatekeeping” (once wielded by National Review or William F. Buckley) obsolete.
• Online radicalization, the meme culture, and generational divides play important roles in misunderstandings around figures like Fuentes.
• Cooper and Horton stress the futility of shaming or excluding figures; as audience polarization and alternative media ecosystems have rendered old strategies ineffective.

“...when you persecute a group of people, whether they deserve it or not …when you try to shut something down by marginalizing and persecuting...if you’re not willing to go all the way, all you’re going to do is inflame them and agitate them even more.” — Darryl Cooper [21:56]

5. Online Subcultures, Generational Conflict, and Identity

[21:56] – [29:00]

• Reflects on 1990s/2000s message board culture, noting its irreverence and how younger generations interpret edginess as jokes, whereas older gatekeepers (and media organizations) see only danger.
• Horton and Cooper discuss younger audiences’ ability to move past prior statements, and the dangers of internet-fueled personality “ratchets,” wherein one’s worst moments become defining.

“...the way the internet locks people into a personality...like a ratchet because you can have like a good thing, a good thing, a good thing and a bad thing. The bad thing is the new you.” — Darryl Cooper [22:26]

6. Gatekeeping, Media, and Political Weaponization

[27:55] – [32:04]

• Examination of how media, both right and left, have historically supported or suppressed certain extremist figures for strategic reasons (“Pied Piper strategy”), with reference to Richard Spencer and Nick Fuentes.
• The role of the ADL and liberal media in amplifying or suppressing right-wing voices, the risks therein, and how attempts to shape the narrative can backfire.

7. Cycles of Scapegoating and Historical Parallels

[32:04] – [41:36]

• Cooper draws extended parallels between the scapegoating dynamic of ancient religious narratives (e.g., the crucifixion) and historic mass violence (e.g., the Holocaust), grounding current Middle East controversies in deep-seated patterns of blame and displacement.
• The hosts contend that harsh defensive rhetoric by Israel’s supporters fails to win over the “normie” American audience and instead inflames further division.

“...if you see something like that forming up…if there is like an unjust persecution, then you die with that person before you participate in it...that’s the lesson of the martyrs, right? ...the crucifixion was an archetype that is repeated at different points in history.” — Darryl Cooper [35:45]

8. Institutional Responses and Shifting Conservative Alliances

[41:36] – [47:44]

• The Heritage Foundation’s decision to defend Tucker Carlson is not only a free speech issue, but a signal of possible realignment within conservative institutions.
• Horton and Cooper criticize the neoconservative old guard (notably John Podhoretz), questioning both their character and their disproportionate media influence compared to new voices.
• Note: Both hosts see the “cancel culture” attacks as treating audiences with contempt, presuming they must be shielded from “dangerous” ideas.

9. The Polarizing Function of Identity Politics

[57:34] – [66:07]

• Horton argues that identity politics were adopted by elite institutions to prevent the rise of class-based, populist opposition, fragmenting potential coalitions along racial and demographic lines.
• Both suggest that “divide and conquer” tactics distract the population from concentrating on shared grievances against elite interests.
• Anecdotes about immigrant families show how American political culture can radicalize children against their own families’ values.

“If even Nick Fuentes says ‘as long as you're from here and you're America first, then I'm cool with that’...we’re gonna have to figure this out, aren't we?” — Scott Horton [67:30]

10. Restoring Social Cohesion & Culture Wars

• Emphasize the importance of returning to broad-based pluralism (as typified by 1990s culture), cautioning against exclusion or demonization as strategies for progress, and against entrenching perpetual cycles of conflict.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cancel culture and gatekeeping:

  “Gatekeeping didn’t work…there was a time where William F. Buckley could just say…‘no one has to listen to you anymore’...that really worked. But it’s too late for that now.” — Scott Horton [19:42]

• On historical patterns of scapegoating:

  “...the Jews were a scapegoat in a situation in Germany…and all those people were able to come together by saying, ...‘Let’s get them, and then we can all get along again.’ So… the Holocaust is the crucifixion blown up in scale for everybody to see.” — Darryl Cooper [36:50]

• On public discourse about Israel and Palestine:

  “...the idea that you’re going to have this horror show going on…and you’re just going to shut that down by calling people names and it’ll go away? No. You’re going to have a lot of people who are going to get more and more upset about that.” — Darryl Cooper [39:15]

• On online subcultures meeting the mainstream:

  “You would never have had a 70-year-old…board member of the ADL arguing about Israel with a 23-year-old shitposter, you know, online…Now those people are all in the same little forum.” — Darryl Cooper [25:03]

• On radical change in internet culture:

  “The internet I grew up on was…late 90s, early 2000s message board culture…It was just total and complete chaos…Part of it was…gatekeeping.” — Darryl Cooper [22:51]

• On the long trajectory of public figures:

  “The way the internet locks people into a personality…It works like a ratchet, because…a bad thing is the new you, and that’s locked in.” — Darryl Cooper [22:36]

• On race relations and the reshaping of party identities:

  “...I think race relations…in the W. Bush era…being damn near solved…So much progress had been made…And then, a friend of mine pointed out it was just a bad idea to have the first black president be a Democrat.” — Scott Horton [66:16]

• On open dialogue as a path out of the cycle:

  “Somebody has to [talk to them]…These are still human beings…like, people change over time.” — Darryl Cooper [22:10]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:28–05:41 | Personal updates, podcast growth, importance of direct testimony | | 06:09–07:34 | E.B. Sledge quote on the trauma of war | | 07:34–12:57 | Online pile-ons and the Tucker/Fuentes interview controversy | | 13:44–21:56 | Gatekeeping, alt-right history, failures of ostracism | | 21:56–29:00 | Subcultures, ratchet personalities, generational divides | | 27:55–32:04 | Media strategy, “Pied Piper” theory, ADL and extremist coverage | | 32:04–41:36 | Scapegoating patterns, historic parallels, critique of Israel discourse | | 41:36–47:44 | Heritage Foundation, neocons, shifting alliances | | 57:34–66:07 | Identity politics, elite strategies, cultural shifts | | 66:07–end | Restoration of pluralism, race relations, closing thoughts |

Tone & Style

Consistent with the podcast, the tone is informal, deeply engaged, and at times irreverent. Both hosts blend personal stories, broad historical analysis, internet subculture insight, and strong opinions, with frequent asides and humorous moments.

Conclusion

This episode of "Provoked" is a wide-ranging exploration of why cycles of online and political conflict appear intractable, rooted in both our digital environment and enduring human tendencies. Cooper and Horton highlight the dangers of exclusion, the failures of old guard political gatekeeping, and the need for pluralistic engagement, while examining how the modern right and left manufacture and respond to outrage, scapegoating, and attempts at censorship. Their discussion weaves historical reflection, contemporary controversy, and an underlying concern for communication over condemnation.

For further engagement, the hosts invite listeners to check out Scott Horton Academy, subscribe to MartyrMade, and continue the dialogue about the past, present, and future of political and social conflict.