Podcast Summary: Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

Episode 21: The MAGA Civil War Has Begun! Tucker Carlson v. Shapiro & Levin
Date: November 8, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton dive deep into the fracturing American right, focusing on the "MAGA Civil War" sparked by recent clashes between Tucker Carlson and establishment conservative figures like Ben Shapiro and Mark Levin. The discussion weaves together debates on Israel, World War II, the shifting boundaries of acceptable opinion on the American right, and the generational and cultural divides shaping these conflicts. The hosts analyze the motives and influence of right-wing media personalities, examine controversies swirling around Nick Fuentes, and reflect on the implications for antiwar and non-interventionist movements.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "MAGA Civil War" and Right-Wing Infighting

(Timestamps: 03:35 — 11:47, 30:39 — 35:36)

• Ben Shapiro’s Attack on Darryl Cooper & Tucker Carlson:

  • Shapiro played an edited clip of Darryl on Tucker’s show, attempting to paint both as extremists and “police” the movement.
  • Scott and Darryl lampoon Shapiro’s approach and question his remaining relevance, arguing his influence is waning as MAGA and generational attitudes change.
  • Quote: “It’s laughable that people like Ben Shapiro think they have the ability to police the ranks of the American right anymore.” (Darryl, 06:20)

• Daily Wire & Controlled Opposition:

  • Darryl explains Shapiro and similar figures built their careers drawing in disaffected youth and keeping them pro-Israel.
  • “He had one job... to make sure that none of those people that were coming in as his audience wandered off the reservation on the one thing that really matters... the US stance toward Israel.” (Darryl, 05:36)

• Israel as a Dividing Line:

  • Both hosts analyze how the Israel-Palestine conflict, especially after October 7, 2023, has unraveled the old conservative consensus and exposed “controlled opposition” in right-wing media.

2. The Churchill Controversy: Revisiting World War II

(Timestamps: 11:47 — 25:11)

• Responding to Accusations of Relativizing Hitler:

  • Darryl defends his rhetorical position that Churchill (as a proxy for British imperial policy) played a key role in escalating WWII, not to exonerate Hitler but to challenge black-and-white narratives.

• British (and Churchill's) War Aims:

  • Darryl asserts that British refusal to negotiate, expecting the US or USSR to enter the war, knowingly doomed Europe to destruction.
  • “If you stay in a war that you have no plan to win except hoping that these other major powers come in and just destroy the entire continent of Europe on your behalf, you’re one of the bad guys.” (Darryl, 18:58)

• The Power of Myth in History & Foreign Policy:

  • They discuss how WWII mythology is used today to frame policy debates (notably around Israel) in good vs. evil terms.
  • “He’s defending a myth of angels battling demons and calling that history.” (Darryl, 25:18)

3. The New Dissident Right: Social Media and “Deplatforming”

(Timestamps: 28:11 — 35:36; 47:23 — 62:23)

• Why People Get Shunted Into Extremism:

  • Deplatforming and attacks on critics of U.S. foreign policy (especially Israel) drive ordinary people to fringe content.
  • Regular people are noticing the disconnect between America’s rulers and popular opinion, especially in the age of social media.

• Censorship and Cancel Culture as Alchemy for Dissent:

  • “They can’t do that anymore. …And regular people are noticing…because of social media, it’s housewives, it’s regular college students...saying, ‘I’m not so sure about all these dead babies.’ And they’re trying to destroy them.” (Darryl, 29:49)

4. Nick Fuentes, Platforming & Generational Rifts

(Timestamps: 51:21 — 79:44)

• Nick Fuentes’ Role in New Right Politics:

  • Debate over whether Fuentes is an extremist liability or someone who can reach alienated youth.
  • Darryl acknowledges Fuentes’s controversial rhetoric, but believes conversation is crucial to bridge divides, noting the “Call of Duty server” culture.

• Should the Antiwar Right Avoid Fuentes and Similar Figures?

  • Scott expresses concern about reputational damage from association, especially when Fuentes uses openly racist or antisemitic language.
  • Darryl disagrees, arguing that ignoring or shunning such voices hasn’t reduced their influence—it’s grown in the shadows.

• Platforming, Redemption, and Dialogue:

  • “We need people like Tucker talking to people like him. …We have to build those bridges.” (Darryl, 64:10)
  • “You need people like that too, because there’s some people out there who are really pissed off...” (Darryl, 69:40)

• On Past Extremism and Change:

  • “Yeah, I said a lot of this stuff. Congratulations, you’ve got a record of every horrible thing I’ve ever said since I was 18 years old. But I’m not talking like that now.” (Darryl, 93:06)

5. Who Runs U.S. Policy Toward Israel?

(Timestamps: 69:40 — 80:35)

• Christian Zionists, Organized Jewish Advocacy, and Neoconservatives:

  • “If you have, like, a giant robot that’s controlled by a guy up in the head, Christian Zionists are the body of that robot. …Organized Zionist activism is up in the head controlling the levers.” (Darryl, 69:54)

• Jewish Political Organization and Its Dangers:

  • Darryl stresses the political effectiveness of Jewish organizations, especially as they claim to speak for all Jews, leading to rising backlash amid Israeli atrocities.

• Historical Context of Zionism:

  • Before WWII, most Jews were anti-Zionist out of concern state actions would be blamed on diaspora Jews.

6. Rehabilitating Normie-America and the Future of the Right

(Timestamps: 80:35 — episode end)

• Libertarian vs. Nationalist Solutions:

  • Scott argues for promoting antiwar libertarianism, regrets the lack of strong movement leadership since Ron Paul, and warns against the “road to serfdom” in nationalism.

• Public Opinion Shifting on Israel:

  • Both agree support for Israel is collapsing, particularly after witnessing Gazan suffering for two years.

• Elites vs. The People:

  • “You’re gonna have it where it’s just the people versus the party owners and rulers, and that’s going to lead to a hell of a crack up.” (Scott, 88:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “His [Shapiro’s] job was to… make sure none of those people that were coming in… wandered off the reservation on the one thing that really matters… Israel.” (Darryl, 05:36)

• “If you stay in a war that you have no plan to win except hoping that these other major powers come in and just destroy the entire continent of Europe on your behalf, you’re one of the bad guys.” (Darryl, 18:58)

• “We were just firebombing entire cities, killing 30, 40, 50,000 people a night… knowing there was nothing but women and children and old men… There’s a word for that. It’s mass murder.” (Darryl, 25:14)

• “Censorship and cancel culture… drive ordinary people to fringe content… They can’t shut us down like they did Pat Buchanan in 2003.” (Darryl, 29:55)

• “We need people like Tucker talking to people like [Fuentes]. …We have to build those bridges.” (Darryl, 64:10)

• “It’s the people versus the party owners and rulers… a hell of a crack up.” (Scott, 88:09)

• “If you’re gonna say we want liberty, you have to know who 'we' is, man.” (Darryl, 87:39)

Key Segment Timestamps

• Shapiro, Tucker, and Right-Wing Gatekeeping: 03:35 – 11:47
• Churchill Discourse & WWII Myths: 11:47 – 28:11
• Censorship, Israel, & the Fracturing Right: 28:11 – 35:36
• The Fuentes Dilemma and Generational Culture: 51:21 – 79:44
• Lobby Influence & Political Organization: 69:40 – 80:35
• Populism, Public Opinion, and Future Directions: 80:35 – end

Tone & Language

The conversation is raw, humorous, often sardonic, and deeply critical of mainstream conservative institutions, frequently using playful insults and self-deprecating jokes. The hosts maintain a serious intent beneath provocations, aiming to deconstruct myths and expose manipulation in American politics and media.

Final Thoughts

This episode of Provoked offers a critical, combative examination of the current realignment on the American right, the use of history as political weapon, and the generational struggle over nationalism, Israel, and populism. It is essential listening for understanding the grassroots revolt bubbling up beneath conservative media consensus, the legacy of post-9/11 wars, and why debates about “who gets to speak” are more vital than ever.