Provoked with Darryl Cooper & Scott Horton
EP 25: "The Afghan & Real Estate Bubbles" – December 7, 2025

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode of Provoked, Scott Horton and Darryl Cooper take on the U.S. government's role in cycles of violence, from failed foreign interventions to crises at home. They deep-dive into the ideological drivers of recent U.S. moves in Latin America, dissect the catastrophic legacy of the Afghan occupation and reconstruction grift, and transition into a sweeping, critical conversation on the real causes of economic booms and busts. Throughout, the duo maintain their signature blend of irreverence, candor, and deep historical context, holding nothing sacred in politics or economics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. War on Drugs, Venezuela, and U.S. Foreign Policy

00:52–16:35

• Twitter Libertarian Debates
  Scott and Darryl open with a feud sparked online regarding U.S. actions against alleged drug traffickers in Venezuela. Darryl notes how rhetoric equating all government service to immorality can go too far, but Scott pushes back, mocking the manufactured pretext for U.S. intervention (“Are you kidding me? Like, of all the thinnest, most ridiculous, stupid ass pretexts for war. This is some Tom Clancy, Harrison Ford bullshit from the 1990s.” – Scott, 03:08).

• Drug Prohibition as Failed Policy
  Both hosts agree that prohibition doesn’t work and enforcement merely reproduces cycles of violence and criminality. Darryl notes Americans know little about Latin America, and policy is driven more by ideology (notably among Cuban-American politicians like Marco Rubio) than strategic or factual understanding.

• The Venezuela Regime Change Playbook
  Discussion covers U.S. attempts to destabilize the Maduro regime by economic pressure, speculation about corporate oil interests, and the international context involving the so-called “Isaac Accords” (Latin American parallel to Abraham Accords with Israel). Darryl and Scott are critical of the simplistic expectations some policymakers and expats have about engineered regime change.

• Motivations Behind U.S. Policy
  The hosts largely dismiss conspiratorial explanations involving oil companies, instead arguing most intervention is driven by ideological anti-communism and legacy of Cold War politics, particularly through Florida-based Cuban-American influence.

Notable Quotes

• On Pretexts for War:
  "I'm supposed to go to war over cocaine? Are you kidding me?...This is some Tom Clancy, Harrison Ford bullshit from the 1990s." – Scott (03:08)

• On Ignorance in U.S. Policy:
  “Our understanding that we think we have is coming from these really hardcore ideologues like Rubio and the people around him. That... should be the biggest push for caution – just the fact that we probably don't really understand what's going on down there.” – Darryl (12:35)

2. Legalization, Social Policy, and the Drug War’s Real Toll

16:35–36:09

• Prohibition’s Failures
  Scott draws a direct line from alcohol prohibition to the current drug war—“prohibition was an absolute catastrophe...the DEA ever succeeded in reducing the supply of cocaine...No, the whole thing is stupid and wrong. You ought to just be able to go and get it at Walgreens.” (18:13)

• Legalization Pros & Cons
  Darryl, while sympathetic to legalization, raises worries about what a completely unfettered market for highly addictive drugs would do in a society already plagued by “deaths of despair.” He worries about unleashing addiction in a highly fragile social fabric but admits black markets create even worse incentives and outcomes.

• Drug War’s Structural Damage
  Both hosts explore how prohibition breeds criminal empires, violence, and corruption, using historical parallels from alcohol prohibition and the inner-city drug trade. They reflect on how the nature of the criminal underworld has changed—now younger, more chaotic, and more violent. They also discuss the social fallout, including the role of organized crime and the normalization of criminality in marginalized communities.

Notable Quotes

• On Policy Insanity:
  “All we need is for the national government to kill more people, to crack down harder and think that we're on the path toward any progress whatsoever...” – Scott (21:17)

• On Addictiveness and Risk:
  “Once you know that [a drug can make your core anxiety disappear], you can't ever forget that...that's what keeps people going down that road.” – Darryl (25:45)

• On Comparative Harm:
  “Do you prefer your brother is a junkie or a dead junkie? That's the compared to what we're talking about here.” – Scott (28:26)

3. Afghanistan: Reconstruction, Corruption, and Catastrophe

40:57–54:46

• SIGAR Report & The Cost of “Reconstruction”
  Scott references the final SIGAR (Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction) report as a blistering indictment: $145 billion spent, more (adjusted for inflation) than the Marshall Plan, with nothing to show. He describes “aid” as a power-destabilizing and often taliban-enriching racket.

• Technocratic Delusions
  Darryl relates how elites fawned over Ashraf Ghani’s book on “how to fix failed states,” with “business school truisms” irrelevant to the Afghan reality, showing the threat of technocratic arrogance.

• The Real Legacy of Occupation
  Both cite the Afghanistan Papers and extensive evidence that U.S. officials knew they could never “win”; their main aim was to postpone failure. The structure of the Afghan puppet regime essentially guaranteed disaster, and the U.S. often empowered rapacious warlords, criminals, and even child rapists as government officials. War crimes repeatedly occurred, from special forces to police.

Notable Quotes

• On Corrupt Rulers & U.S. Selection:
  “Imagine a foreign army in your town...they take a child rapist and make him the police chief and protect him with their soldiers...imagine how mad we would be and how violent we would be in response to that.” – Scott (54:42)

• On Foreign Policy Failure:
  “The Afghanistan adventure...is almost a better illustration of...the failures of our foreign policy elite even than Iraq.” – Darryl (47:24)

4. The Real Story Behind Economic Booms & Busts

64:54–88:02

• Boom-Bust 101: Austrian School Views
  The hosts move from the political to the economic, with Scott making a case for Austrian business cycle theory. He explains how the Federal Reserve’s inflationary policies—meant to “smooth” the economy—actually generate disastrous boom/bust cycles, enabled corporate bailouts, and fuel inequality and instability.
  “Inflationary money doesn't just cause endlessly rising prices, which it does, but it also causes this horrific boom and bust cycle...” (62:13)

• The Great Depression Myth
  Scott rebuts the received wisdom that the Depression was fixed by FDR’s intervention or WWII spending, instead blaming government and monetary interventions for both the catastrophe’s onset and duration.

• Bailouts & Bail-in Logic
  Darryl raises a pragmatic concern: even if Austrian theory is right, is it possible to “just let them fail” without precipitating unmanageable chaos given how thoroughly the world runs on the dollar?

• Social Effects of Instability
  The pair consider how decades of instability and social atomization—exacerbated by government failure—have left younger generations more vulnerable, disillusioned, and eager for state intervention.

Notable Quotes

• On “Letting it Burn”:
  “Their answer is...let them all fall, let the free market sort it out. There’s bubbles blown up – let them collapse...the only way to wash all this inefficiency out of the system.” – Darryl (71:46)

• On Misplaced Blame:
  “People just get mad. They blame the shop owner for raising prices, they blame the factory owner for downsizing...when everybody’s just trying to cope with the central bank screwing us over.” – Scott (70:36)

• On Political Realities:
  “When you put people in that situation, they're going to vote for Bernie Sanders. They're not going to vote for Ron Paul, you know, and that's a really tough obstacle...libertarians have to confront.” – Darryl (84:04)

Memorable Moments

• Red Dawn Principle Reprised (55:39)
  “Because we live here.” – Both declare that any foreign boots on U.S. soil would be fought regardless of internal politics. This ties in with the contempt they reserve for opposition leaders who invite U.S. intervention in own countries.

• Afghan Withdrawal Anecdotes & SIGAR Data (42:15–53:01)
  The hosts discuss institutional fraud, the deep-seated, cynical pass-the-buck culture among U.S. officials, and their own brushes with being right (and being ignored).

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|--------------------| | Venezuela/War on Drugs debate | 00:52–16:35 | | Legalization, harm reduction | 16:35–36:09 | | Afghanistan reconstruction & withdrawal | 40:57–54:46 | | Economic boom-bust cycles | 64:54–88:02 | | Community Q&A and closing | 97:49–end |

Notable Quotes

• “Prohibition was an absolute catastrophe. It did nothing but expand criminality...it birthed a massive federal police gestapo...” – Scott (18:13)
• “Underlying a sound management system is an effective supply chain...” (quoting a critique of Ashraf Ghani’s failed state book) – Darryl (44:00)
• “None of this can be fixed by bailing out the powerful and blaming the powerless – but that's always what government does.” – Paraphrased consensus (throughout)

Tone & Style

• Candid, irreverent, and at times darkly humorous
• Unapologetically critical of U.S. government policy, both domestic and foreign
• Mixes deep historical analysis with personal anecdotes and references to popular culture
• Maintains a conversational but analytical tone, challenging listeners’ assumptions

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

Scott Horton and Darryl Cooper provide a forensic dismantling of the moral, strategic, and economic pretensions that undergird U.S. violence—abroad and at home. Whether examining the cocaine pretense for war in Venezuela, the unfixable grift in Afghanistan, or how central banking seeds economic ruin, they urge skepticism toward easy answers and official narratives. The episode is dense with historical context, original insight, and unvarnished language—vital for anyone who wants to understand not just the facts, but the machinery and mindset behind cycles of conflict and crisis.

Subscribe to further content:

• Martyr Made by Darryl Cooper: Fear & Loathing in the New Jerusalem, Enemy: WWII from the German Perspective
• The Scott Horton Show on Substack and YouTube for interviews and audiobooks
• Scott Horton Academy for deep-dive instructional courses on foreign policy