Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton

Episode 26: "Hezbollah in Latin America???"

December 15, 2025

Main Theme:

This episode explores the intersection of U.S. foreign policy in Latin America—particularly regarding Venezuela—as well as alleged Hezbollah criminal networks in the region. Cooper and Horton untangle the motivations behind U.S. actions in Venezuela, discuss transnational money flows involving oil and drugs, and analyze how cycles of propaganda, policy, and war are perpetuated by political elites. The conversation is rich with history, skepticism of official narratives, and sharp criticism of interventionist strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction and Announcements [(00:00–10:55)]

• Brief banter and podcast introductions. Scott Horton plugs his new projects and Charles Goyette’s book, "Empire of Lies," which he describes as “the combination of Enough Already and Provoked in 300 pages” [(05:30)].
• Horton appreciates Goyette’s approach as a "marble cake" (interwoven themes), in contrast to his own timeline-centric style.
• Anecdotes on media misinformation, e.g., the 1996 TWA Flight 800 incident and past government “memory-holing” of disasters for political gain.
  • Horton: “If they had told the truth…we should have stopped right there. Instead, they buried it…” [(08:15)].

2. U.S. Strategy Toward Venezuela: Is War the Goal? [(10:55–17:38)]

• Cooper discusses an analysis (from Museum on X) explaining Venezuela’s regime stability depends on “layered cash payments” and illicit revenue (oil, drug smuggling). U.S. pressure via sanctions and asset seizures could topple Maduro without direct military intervention.
  • Cooper: “The strategy…is basically to try to overthrow this regime without actually firing a shot…” [(12:40)].
• Expresses skepticism about U.S. concern with drug trafficking, positing financial motivations over public health.
• The hosts critique the morality and wisdom of regime change as U.S. policy, even when achieved through “smart power” and economic strangulation.
• Comparison to Syria: Authoritarian regimes can collapse under sanctions if their revenue sources are choked off. Reference to Seymour Hersh’s reporting on regime vulnerabilities in Iran tied to assassinations and water shortages.
  • Horton: “Now they’re talking about evacuating Tehran. No drinking water for the people at all. Well, that could lead to the folly of regime.” [(16:03)]

3. The Myth of Smart Power | Trump, Venezuela, and Foreign Policy Nostalgia [(17:38–24:45)]

• Trump’s critique of past foreign policy as “stupid,” not immoral, is discussed. He positions himself as a would-be smarter operator.
• Connection drawn between Venezuelan drug flows and broader international networks, including the Middle East, Africa, and even Russia.
• Historical focus: The DEA’s “Project Cassandra” probe into Hezbollah’s alleged criminal empire in Latin America (spanning from 2008-2016).
  • Cooper notes the entrenchment of Lebanese diaspora communities in Latin America: “Fifteen million Lebanese in the diaspora, half in Brazil, 400,000 in Venezuela, 2 million in Argentina…” [(19:51)].
• Story of Ali Fayad, a Lebanese-Ukrainian arms dealer tied to Hezbollah, whose extradition the Obama administration allegedly blocked to avoid jeopardizing the Iran nuclear deal negotiations.
• Venezuela as a base for these networks: The U.S. apparently aims to “apply a general pressure to all of these nodes…in a way that…is short of us having to send the 3rd ID into that country” [(24:08)].

4. Geopolitical Motivations—Zionist and “Florida Man” Factors [(24:45–25:15)]

• Horton: “Anytime you talk about Lebanese Shiites, then automatically this leads back to a Zionist motive for the intervention as well, at least a partial one.”
• Florida’s outsized role in U.S. Venezuela policy highlighted, where political interests align with those of Israel.

5. Extended Advertisements and Listener Engagement [(25:15–31:29)]

• Discussion of Scott Horton Academy, antiwar.com’s anniversary, and promo plugs for coffee and other products. [Skipped here per guidelines.]

6. Ukraine, NATO, and the Destruction of a Nation [(31:29–47:20)]

• Play and analysis of a leaked call featuring Amanda Sloat (Biden State Department, National Security Council), who openly acknowledges Ukraine’s neutral status could have averted the war.
  • Sloat: “We had some conversations even before the war started about what if Ukraine comes out and just says to Russia, ‘Fine, we won’t go into NATO.’ …which at that point, may well have done [something].” [(32:00)]
  • “It certainly would have prevented the destruction and, and the loss of life.” [(32:25)]
• Cooper reflects on the inertia of grand alliances like NATO: “When you’re involved with an organization like that, it has a way of pulling you in a direction that it wants…because it has its own built-in incentives” [(34:07)].
• Criticism of U.S. refusal to compromise on Ukraine’s NATO status, chasing the “sacred open door policy” at the cost of immense suffering:
  • Horton: “We know it’s going to cause a war imminently. And yet…they simply refused…to just say explicitly and promise and put it in writing that they won’t bring Ukraine into NATO…” [(41:22)]
• The rulers’ detachment from civilian cost is sharply critiqued:
  • Cooper: “It’s almost as if they get off on not taking that kind of thing into consideration… as a private citizen, I care about millions of people being killed and wounded…” [(37:41)]

7. The State of the U.S. Foreign Policy Bureaucracy [(47:20–50:48)]

• U.S. overextension and the mentality of invulnerability have created a dangerous rigidity in policy:
  • Cooper: “We developed that mentality over the course of the last 30 years or so…our power—we can do whatever the hell we want.” [(47:44)]
• Unwillingness to adapt to new “multipolar” world where Russia and China assert their interests.
• Speculation that the U.S. could be negotiating behind the scenes: “It seems to me like there is a lot, especially with Venezuela going on, makes me think that there’s more going on behind the scenes…you’re gonna let Assad fall and Maduro fall…in exchange for us tapping out in Ukraine.” [(49:32)]

8. Questions & Answers: Think Tanks, Careers, and Changing Perspectives [(60:50–78:08)]

• Advice for young, policy-minded listeners: start at more independent or libertarian institutions (e.g. Cato, Quincy Institute, Defense Priorities). Build relationships; not all government work is equal [(66:02–68:39)].
• Storytelling around the “New World Order” trope, and why Horton dropped it as an explanatory model in favor of acknowledging the primacy of the American empire rather than a UN-led “world government.”
  • Horton: “I quit being a New World Order kook because I was wrong…” [(69:09–75:58)]
• The difference between neocons (ideological internationalists, often ex-Trotskyites) and militarist nationalists like Dick Cheney is explained.
  • Cooper: “Dick Cheney is not a neocon. Dick Cheney is a militarist…But neocons are…a bunch of ex-Trotskyites who …were internationalists before they were communists.” [(75:58–78:08)]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S. foreign policy inertia:
  “When you’re involved with an organization like that, it has a way of like pulling you in a direction that it wants...because it has its own built-in incentives.” — Darryl Cooper [(34:07)]

• On Ukraine’s NATO status and avoidable war:
  “We know it's going to cause a war imminently. And yet...they simply refused to just say explicitly...they won't bring Ukraine into NATO...” — Scott Horton [(41:22)]

• On detached policymakers:
  “As a private citizen, I care about millions of people being killed and wounded…” — Darryl Cooper [(37:41)]

• On the real difference between “neocon” and nationalist warmongers:
  “Dick Cheney is not a neocon...neocons are ... a bunch of ex-Trotskyites who ... were internationalists before they were communists.” — Darryl Cooper [(75:58)]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:30] — Horton discusses Charles Goyette’s new book and disinformation about past attacks
• [10:55–17:38] — Venezuela: U.S. strategy and the weaponization of sanctions
• [19:51] — Breakdown of Lebanese diaspora’s historic presence in Latin America
• [24:45] — Zionist and Florida interests in U.S. Venezuela policy
• [32:00] — Amanda Sloat on possible alternative outcomes in Ukraine
• [34:07] — Cooper on the inertia of alliances like NATO
• [41:22] — Horton on the refusal to promise Ukraine won’t join NATO, despite looming war
• [47:44] — Cooper: "We developed that mentality over the course of the last 30 years..."
• [66:02–68:39] — Career advice for young people interested in foreign affairs
• [75:58] — Explaining the neoconservative movement vs. nationalist militarists

Tone and Language

The tone is candid, informed, and often darkly humorous, with the hosts weaving together historical context, policy critique, and personal anecdotes. Horton’s language is direct, passionate, and occasionally profane (“they’re monsters. I hate them” — referring to the IRS [(54:45)]), while Cooper provides context-rich, often introspective analysis.

Summary Takeaway

This episode of “Provoked” offers a unique synthesis of contemporary U.S. foreign policy dilemmas, linking Latin America’s instability to broader global strategies, and reflecting on the repeated pattern of U.S.-driven regime change. The hosts’ skepticism of prevailing narratives, coupled with sharp historical analysis and colorful storytelling, provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of the hidden drivers, and heavy costs, behind current conflicts. It’s especially valuable for listeners interested in the psychology of conflict, U.S. interventionism, and the often invisible machinery of war and propaganda.