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- [00:02]
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- [00:32]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbond. It's International Tiger Day. Tony, do you know there are nine different types of tigers?
- [00:42]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. Let me guess. Lsu, Clemson, Auburn, Memphis, Missouri, Jackson State, Princeton, Detroit and the Cincinnati Bengals. Others receiving votes, Tiger woods and Tony the Tiger from Frosted.
- [00:58]
Mike Wilbon
That's what I think you got. I think you got one that I was thinking about. Bengal Tigers is a real Tiger. But the only one that matters is Tiger woods and the rest of them, their nicknames, their mascots are fine. Tiger Woods. That's it. That's the list.
- [01:16]
Tony Kornheiser
I got LSU way up there. I do. Welcome to pti boys and girls. In today's episode, the Clippers are old, Fernando Tatis Jr. Is good and Jeff Passon joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with Cleveland guardians closer Emmanuel Classe, who has led the American League in saves three different times, being placed on non disciplinary paid leave as baseball investigates sports gambling. Classe's teammate Luis Ortiz placed on similar leave three weeks ago after increased gambling activity was noticed on two pitches or teased through. Classe has not been accused of anything untoward, but will be out until September 1st class's ERA last year. Wilmot 0.61 yeah, well. What feels fair to say at this point, Tony?
- [02:05]
Mike Wilbon
I don't know what's fair to say. I'm not going to concentrate on it and I'm not going to think about it because I don't care. Leagues and networks have gotten into bed with gambling and gamblers. That's all I care. I care to say that. And if I'm class A or anybody else and they don't ultimately come up with proof, evidence, proof, not trends, proof that I was involved in this. You think that Bryce Harper went after the commissioner? I'd be going after the commissioner with the most powerful lawyers, Sharks I could after baseball. Cuz I don't work for the gambling houses, I don't work for them. I work for baseball. And basically when you take me out, you're casting an aspersion and you better have proof. If I did not do this if. I know, big if. But tony networks again and leagues they got in bed with, gamblers. I don't want to see them pointing the finger at anybody else and never themselves. You could tell it makes me angry.
- [03:08]
Tony Kornheiser
So many things make you angry? Yes. I don't know where this is going. I don't know if class A is involved with gamblers and gambling. I don't know if Ortiz is involved with gamblers and gambling. But I'm pretty sure what I'm going to say now is. And that, and I even wrote it down, gambling can't be good for the integrity of a sport because it raises more questions than it resolves. Eight to 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 70 years ago, there was no problem like this because baseball and basketball and football did not have gambling partners. Now they have gambling partners and commissioners stand up and they say things like in the main, gambling is fine except for these things. Well, what are these things? Is it betting on the first pitch? Is it betting on the first three point shot? Is it betting on the first forward pass or is it the first pitch, the eighth pitch, in the 23rd pitch? It's very, very hard to tell how these things work. But I will tell you this. With the way gambling works now, Mike, there is a real sense of who bets, how much they bet, when they bet on what they bet. The database is enormous. Everybody knows exactly what is going on. So you can zero in on, on something. And I think, Mike, I think sports and I know we agree on this, opened up a terrible can of worms with gambling. And I think the only deterrent for players, honestly the only deterrent is banishment for life. That's all that will deter it. If these people are involved and if they're not, I agree with you. Get off them. Get off them.
- [04:39]
Mike Wilbon
Well, that's when we entered. You said there wasn't much of a problem 50 years ago. Don't tell that to Pete Rose or his estate or all the people who wanted him in the hall of Fame all these years. There's always.
- [04:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, that was very specific about baseball, that was specific about baseball games.
- [04:52]
Mike Wilbon
It's so much broader now. There's so many. There's so much more we know about it now. And who's to fall for that? Class A, I don't think so. Let's move to the NBA where the Clippers are getting old. The team officially reintroduced 40 year old Chris Paul yesterday who joins the 36 year old James Harden or soon to be 34 year old Kawhi Leonard and 32 year old Bradley Beal, among others. As Yahoo's Tom Haberstrough notes, the team's average age is higher than 33. By contrast, the thunders was lower than 25 when they just won the title. So Tone, do you give the Clippers strategy going old? Big chance, little chance, no chance in today's NBA?
- [05:40]
Tony Kornheiser
I certainly don't give him a big chance because as you said, the reigning NBA champions were the youngest average age team in the last half century. And if you combine the Thunder and the Pacers, you had the lowest average age ever in an NBA final. And now you got Methuselah walking down Century Boulevard and you're asking me if I like the strategy. No, I don't like the strategy. I give them a little chance because they've accumulated wonderful players even if they are over 30 and, and in some cases way over 30, you know, but you gotta go through four rounds of the playoffs against good teams whose average age is probably 6, 8, 10 years younger. I think it can work to get into the playoffs. I don't know if it works in the playoffs. And a lot of pressure on Tyron Lue to make sure he doesn't pull a Thibodeau to make sure he spreads the minutes out and doesn't, you know, ruin his players at that age.
- [06:32]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, I'm glad you mentioned T. Lewis because T. Lou's not going to be Tibbs in that regard. He's going to realize these half the guys are as old as he is. Could have played against a couple of guys. Probably has. Tony, I'm looking at their lineup of Kawhi harden, Zubots, who's 28, Beal Bogdanovich and then a bench of platoon, Derrick Jones Jr. Who's 28, Chris Paul and Brook Lopez who I didn't mention yet and he's 36, 37. Tony, I think you're right about this. We're going to disagree on the end result, but I think T. Lou's the perfect guy to sort of use their planned obsolescence but get them to the playoff week and get Kawhi there. God knows that may take a miracle, but get them to the playoffs and then I'll still take the old dudes because they don't have to play back to back and there's no practice and it's not there's so Tony, I'll take them if they can get to a top five spot. I'll take the Clippers to win a round, maybe more now when we're Talking.
- [07:32]
Tony Kornheiser
About winning a championship. And you look at Djokovic. Djokovic is still a great player, but when he plays sinner and when he plays Alcaraz and he gives away that many years, he can't beat him. We move on, Mike. We moved to the passing of Ryan Sandberg yesterday. At just 65 years old from cancer, Sandberg is one of the greatest second basemen of all time and a beloved icon in Chicago, where he played his entire career, 16 seasons for the Cubs. Within the last year, the Cubs put a statue of him in front of Wrigley. Please give us your thoughts on Ryne Sandberg.
- [08:05]
Mike Wilbon
Well, Terry had a lot of them. And last night when I heard this, watching the Cubs and Brewers, it was exceptionally sad for Cubs fans. Ryne Sandberg is one of the great players in a franchise that's nearly 150 years old. And you mentioned a statue. It seems like I spent. We were about the same age, you know, my whole life watching Ryan Sandberg in person and on television. Tony Sandberg ushered in the modern era of the Cubs. There was a probably three eras, but one of them, the one preceding me, was Ernie Banks and Billy Williams and Fergie Jenkins and Ron Sano and my heroes. And then the next one was Harry Carey, an announcer, and Ryan Sandberg. And it was a game In June of 1984, 623 84, in which Ryan Sandberg by himself, essentially beat the Cardinals. And the Cubs didn't have lights at Wrigley Field then. They were never in the postseason. Never is in never. They hadn't been since 1945. We traded for Rick Sutcliffe the next week earlier, and we had Sutcliffe and Rhyno and then Dawson. And all of a sudden the Cubs got to be a thing and Wrigley Field was full and you had Walter Payton and Michael Jordan just coming into town and Ryan Sandberg. And it was a heady time, intoxicating time we'll never forget. And it's just painful to lose Ryan Sandberg at this stage of his life, which still should be the late prime of his life.
- [09:35]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't have personal memories of Sandberg the way you do, but I did watch this morning on television when people put lit candles right by that statue in Wrigley. That's a very moving thing. I mean, we all know about Wrigley Field and the Cubs fans, and when they finally won a World Series, they went to gravestones and they read newspaper articles to their departed family members. And it always struck me that Chicago has a deep feeling for people that it loves over a long period of time. And clearly they loved Rince Sandberg. Clearly. Let's take a break. Coming up, what should we take away from Bryce Harper's reported confrontation with baseball commissioner Rob Manfred? We're going to ask Jeff Basak, but.
- [10:17]
Mike Wilbon
We'Ll also ask him whether the trade value of Geno Suarez was affected when he took a pitch off the right index finger last night.
- [10:27]
Tony Kornheiser
You always quote Shaq saying father Time never loses. He's undefeated. That's what's gonna happen to the 39 aint 29. That's what's gonna happen. 39 ain't 29, bro.
- [10:37]
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- [11:34]
Tony Kornheiser
Today we've got baseball questions for our great friend ESPN senior MLB Insider, Jeff Passon. I'll go to the glasses so that I can read these. You reported yesterday, Jeff, that Bryce Harper told Commissioner Rob Manfred right to his face to, quote, get the bleep out of our clubhouse. If Manfred wanted to talk about a potential salary cap, what is your takeaway from that entire exchange?
- [11:59]
Jeff Passan
I think it's a microcosm, Tony, of the relationship between Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association. And look, this is something that's been going on for more than half a century at this point. The owners want to put a salary cap in place and the players say, no, no, no, we want a free market. We want a free market because a free market gives us Juan Soto at 15 years and $765 million. And you know, Rob Manfred never used the words salary cap in that meeting, but he didn't have to because the rhetoric has been amping up over the last year or so among the owners. You know, David Rubenstein of the Baltimore Orioles said publicly, I would like a sal. Others have implied as much and it's just a red line for the players. It's something that Bryce Harper in that meeting said, we will lose 162 games if it means avoiding a salary cap. Now, Major League Baseball has already in 1994 seen a world Series cancelled because of the salary cap. And here we are 30 plus years later and the same thing is happening again. And as a fan of baseball, I can only hope that they don't miss the forest for the trees and that they understand that losing a season of baseball, fighting over labor, it might not be the death knell of the sport. But if it has any sort of effect like it did back in 1994, it will take a long, long time to come back from.
- [13:29]
Mike Wilbon
Wow. I don't remember Bryce Harper going back after Jonathan Papelbahn quite as hard as he went after Rob Manfred. But that's just me. I don't want to get too sidetracked, Jeff, I want to ask you about trade deadline darling Gino Suarez. Yes, Gino, as he's known here in the desert, he got hit on the index finger last night with a pitch. X rays are negative, but how much is it going to affect his value? Do you think some team might pull out? What's going to happen to Suarez, who's got a trillion home runs so far after this hit by pitch last night?
- [14:05]
Jeff Passan
Mike, he's missing today's game, which does not bode well necessarily. And teams are worried. And I can understand why, because the one thing that can really SAP power from a player is an injury to the hand or the wrist. And Eugenio Suarez, for all that he does well, the thing that teams are going to be acquiring him for theoretically is for that home run power. And yet, because it's not broken, I can't imagine a team is going to sit there and say, well, if we're going to acquire him or not acquire him, a bruised finger is going to keep us from that. Just doesn't seem particularly realistic. But look, 48 hours out from the deadline, teams are looking for all the leverage that they possibly can get and all the reasons not to pay as much as the Diamondbacks want. I foresee him going by the end of the deadline and being potentially the biggest name to go.
- [15:00]
Mike Wilbon
Do you have a favorite landing spot for him, Jeff?
- [15:03]
Jeff Passan
Just to follow up, I mean, the Cubbies seem pretty perfect. I know Matt Shaw has played really well lately. Four home runs in the last nine games. Seattle Mariners are another spot. I'd say to a lesser extent the Cincinnati Reds, Philadelphia Phillies and Detroit Tigers. Someone's going to get him. Someone's going to be really happy to have gotten him.
- [15:24]
Mike Wilbon
All right. Speaking of injured stars who could impact everything, Aaron Judge's injury, we still don't know, of course, when he's going to be back and when he's going to be back fully as Aaron Judge. Do the Yankees do anything? What, what's, what's their mindset now going into these final 48 hours not knowing about their star?
- [15:44]
Jeff Passan
The Yankees have been really proactive still on the trade market and yet you have to like acknowledge that without Aaron Judge in that lineup, it is a completely different team. If Aaron Judge is not a New York Yankee right now, they're playing the whole season without him. This is probably a.500 team. That's how good he's been this year. And you don't know what kind of Aaron Judge you're going to get back. But let's also look at what the injury is. It is a flexor injury in his forearm and connected to his elbow. It's the sort of thing where even if he can't throw, he still will be able to hit. He will be able to dh. And the hope is to get him back around that 10 day mark off the injured list and to ease him in after a week or 2 of DH back to playing in the outfield. But look, even if he's not in the outfield all the rest of this season, he's still going to be a force in that lineup. And because of that, the Yankees are shopping for closers. They're in on David Bednar, they're in on Ryan Helsing, Wellesley. I anticipate that they are going to get a big relief arm before the deadline is over, perhaps two relief arms and they're also looking at starting pitching as well.
- [16:52]
Tony Kornheiser
We will get you out of here on this, but we will ask you to be quick in the answer if you could. Are there any other players or is there a team that you're keeping an eye on for activity as the trade deadline approaches?
- [17:04]
Jeff Passan
Two players who I think we should at very least keep an eye on. Number one, Stephen Kwan with the Cleveland Guardians. After Emmanuel Clase was put on non disciplinary paid leave as part of the gambling investigation yesterday, Quan's name started coming up. Plenty more he could move. And then Mackenzie Gore with your Nationals Tony, they are setting a high price. But if that price is met, I don't think the Nationals will hesitate to move him.
- [17:31]
Tony Kornheiser
We've already lost so many people in this situation.
- [17:34]
Mike Wilbon
The only reason he's got to watch.
- [17:36]
Tony Kornheiser
Now don't want to lose Gore. Thank you, James Wood.
- [17:40]
Jeff Passan
Thank you, boys.
- [17:41]
Mike Wilbon
That's right, he's got Wood.
- [17:43]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's take one last break. Still to come, Travis Hunter announces his nickname. I wonder if it's playoff P. And Fernando Tatis Jr.
- [17:53]
Mike Wilbon
Brings one back. I'll still take Suarez. I'll take Suarez. If the finger's broken, get him in there. Yeah, put him in. And Shaw's hot. He's right. Just a break.
- [18:05]
Tony Kornheiser
But Mackenzie Gore is a very good picture.
- [18:08]
Mike Wilbon
I'll take Gore.
- [18:09]
Tony Kornheiser
That's me.
- [18:10]
Mike Wilbon
Gore is rumored to be coming our way, too.
- [18:14]
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- [19:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy belated 74th birthday. Doug Collins this was yesterday Collins was the overall number one pick out of Illinois State in the 1973 draft by the Philadelphia 76ers. Collins had been on the 1972 U.S. olympic basketball team that lost to the Soviet Union on a disputed call. Collins made four straight NBA All Star teams from 1976 to 1979. After the NBA, Collins went into coaching. He was Michael Jordan's coach on the Chicago Bulls. He also coached the Pistons, the Wizards, where he coached Jordan again, and the 76ers. Collins also had a long career in the TV broadcast booth, where he was a terrific analyst. Collins is a PTI favorite, and Wilbon loves his son Chris, who coaches Northwestern.
- [20:43]
Mike Wilbon
I love the whole family, Tony, and I've sort of been adopted by the Collins family, and I'm proud of that. Doug Collins is one of the most fascinating figures in the history of basketball. The whole thing you mentioned in the Olympic team. And he's the greatest broadcast analyst ever. Ever. No one's close to Doug Collins. And maybe I'll take him a big cake for you and me when I drive past his house on my way home. Because like all good Midwesterners, Doug found his way to the desert.
- [21:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy anniversary, Sparky Anderson. This is posthumous, but on this day 39 years ago, Anderson became the first manager to win 600 games or more in both the American and National Leagues when his tigers beat Milwaukee 9 to 5. Anderson was also the first manager to win a World Series in both leagues, winning with the Reds and Tigers. Tony La Russa has since won at least 600 games with three different teams, Cardinals, A's and White Sox. Bruce Bochy had over 900 wins with the Padres and the Giants and recently won a World Series in Tech. Jim Leland and Terry Francona won over 700 games with different teams. Leland in Pittsburgh and Detroit. Francona in Boston and Cleveland.
- [21:57]
Mike Wilbon
Tony. This got me thinking about my Mount Rushmore managers. Modern time, post World War II, La Russa, Sparky Anderson, Joe Torrey. I got three. I can't put Boshy on because his record is under.500 by a couple of games. And I want to put Earl Weaver on.583 winning percentage, but he was 1 in 3 in World Series, so I don't know. I got a fourth spot. It's open for bidding.
- [22:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Take bids on it. Happy trails. To a home run for Mark Vientos. The Mets and Padres were tied at one in the top of the fourth last night when Vientos sent a shot deep to right. Platinum glover. Fernando Tatis Jr. Tracked it timed his jump perfectly to bring it back. Tatis bobbled it on the transfer, but the ump reviewed it and ruled it a catch. Vientos got his revenge one inning later when he hit a grand slam to give the Mets a 51 lead. But the Padres scored five of their own in the bottom half of that inning. They went on to win on a walk off single, snapping the Mets seven game winning streak.
- [22:59]
Mike Wilbon
I know the Padres aren't the Dodgers, but the Padres are so excited to watch. Maybe the most exciting team in baseball still. Period. Most exciting.
- [23:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Big finish. As quickly as we can. The brewers took the Cubs last night in the first of three. How'd that taste?
- [23:15]
Mike Wilbon
I'm on to the next one. It's a three game series. We're only one behind the cheeseheads. We're ready. Katie ledecky won the 1500 meter freestyle at the World. I know you're impressed.
- [23:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. She's only the best female swimmer of all time. Skylar Diggins had a triple double in just three quarters last night as the storm beat the sun. Was that a big deal?
- [23:35]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah. Only the second player in team history to do it. Big deal. Travis Hunter told CBS Sports he wants his nickname to be the Unicorn. You like that?
- [23:46]
Tony Kornheiser
No. Porzingis was that. How'd that work out? It's like playoff p. Stop it. Last one. Venus Williams got a wild card into the US Open mixed doubles. You okay with that?
- [23:56]
Mike Wilbon
Of course. They're trying to make us watch the mix doubles. I'd watch it if Venus Williams is in with you, so I'll certainly watch it now.
- [24:04]
Tony Kornheiser
I would love that. I could get a point or two. We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. And look at me, Wilbaum. I'm in mauve again. Mauve.
- [24:12]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. And now you know what's coming next. He's in mauve. Here at SportsCenter PTI. You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.
- [24:23]
Jeff Passan
The three point ball has created a.
- [24:25]
Mike Wilbon
Monotonous rhythm to the game.
- [24:27]
Jeff Passan
Has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here?
- [24:31]
Mike Wilbon
The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric.
- [24:34]
Commercial Voice
Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story.
- [24:37]
Jeff Passan
Didn'T turn out quite the way he imagined.
- [24:40]
Mike Wilbon
I decided I wanted to have one.
- [24:42]
Jeff Passan
Of the most organized goodbyes in history. 30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven.
- [24:48]
Mike Wilbon
Available now wherever you get your podcasts.