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- [00:02]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Magic Day. Tone, you have a favorite magic trick?
- [00:10]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. I once made my hair disappear. Too much magic. Too much magic.
- [00:16]
Mike Wilbon
We need photos to measure who had the biggest afro in, say, 1971. You?
- [00:24]
Tony Kornheiser
I did.
- [00:25]
Mike Wilbon
Or did. I did.
- [00:27]
Tony Kornheiser
No, I definitely did. There's no question about that.
- [00:30]
Mike Wilbon
See, people think we're making this, not making this up.
- [00:33]
Tony Kornheiser
By 1981, I didn't have anything, but 71 I did. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, the US Open is not as scary as predicted. Connor McDavid calls tonight's game, quote, pivotal. And Taylor Twelveman joins us to talk about the state of the men's national soccer team. But we begin today with the Indiana Pacers getting 49 points from their bench and outscoring Oklahoma City 3218 in the fourth quarter to win last night. 116, 107, and take a 21 lead in the NBA Finals. Tyrese Haliburton, who was pretty much shut down in Game 2, had 22 points, 11 assists and nine rebounds in Game 3. Wilbon, how do you make sense of what happened last night?
- [01:15]
Mike Wilbon
I made sense of it before it happened. I thought that the Pacers were going to win and said so yesterday. And I think that the Pacers have been undervalued all season. And the person I want to give credit to most of all for calling this out and saying this repeatedly is our dear friend Brian Winhorst, who started saying in March and then it said repeatedly, hey, they're a contender hiding in plain sight because they got off to a bad start. And they don't have that incandescent star. Well, maybe they do in Halliburton, but he is not on the same page yet in consideration and perception as Shea Gilgeous Alexander. But, Tony, they're a complete team. The TJ McConnell clip we showed at the start, it just completely speaks to who Indiana is. And I'm just going to mention a couple of people here in addition to Halliburton with his 22, 11 and 9. And you got to start there because when he's great, they win. But also Ben Mather and Tony, who a lot of teams passed up. Ben Matheran, yet another one of the Canadian, young Canadian stars in the world, 27 points. He comes off the bench. I'm familiar with him and follow him because he went to school here in Arizona. And they got guys that come at you in waves just like, okc, And Rick Carlisle knows how to employ them brilliantly. So this is not a surprise to me.
- [02:38]
Tony Kornheiser
Right. So let me say I got this one completely wrong. You got this one completely right. Including saying yesterday that Halliburton would have a good game because as we know, when he scores more than 20 points, they win almost all the time. I thought, honestly, Mike, that Oklahoma City, after losing Game one, was going to win four games in a row. I believe that. Now. I'm not sure that they are going to win the series at all. I'm just going through my notes here. These teams, they use their bench a lot. They're not the Knicks, but when you get 49 points from your bench, that's an almost incredible number, particularly against the best defensive team in the league. You look at this, Mathurin, as you said, At 27, Mike, there's only two players in the history of the NBA who came off the bench in a game in the finals and had more points than that. And you mentioned McConnell. McConnell had a tremendous line, an impactful line last night. He had 10 points, five assists and five steals in 15 minutes. And I know the tendency for you is to say, 5, 5, 5, 5 and 5.
- [03:44]
Mike Wilbon
No, this was his match.
- [03:46]
Tony Kornheiser
He changed the game when he was in there. You know, I'm still sitting here thinking that Oklahoma City will win, but not if they lose Game four. They're not going to win. It's just that simple. They're not going to win.
- [04:01]
Mike Wilbon
I might disagree with you only in this. I think Indiana's going to win Game four. I'm not saying that decides the series for me, but, man, you talk about an enormous Game four tomorrow night in Indianapolis.
- [04:15]
Taylor Twellman
Woo.
- [04:17]
Mike Wilbon
Let's move to the first round of the United States Open, still in progress, of course. Oakmont is supposed to punish the players, but several in the morning at least finished under par, including JJ Spawn at minus four. Rory shot minus two on his front, but blew up tone plus six on the back. So how do you feel about how the course is playing and about the early results?
- [04:41]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, I mean, I don't want to make a judgment on the course if a bunch of people are under par today. Because what they'll do at Oakmont if a bunch of people are under par today is they'll change the pins tomorrow to such a degree that you're not going to be able to get close to them and everybody's going to be over par. We understand how that works. Sporn is interesting to me. I watched for hours this morning. Spawn is interesting to Me, because a lot of people don't know who he is, but he's having a very good year. He lost in a playoff to Rory at the Players. He's been around the top. I think I'm right in this. He's got the sixth highest ranking in the FedEx cup standing. So do I think he's going to win? No. I mean, I never think people who win, you know, go fairly low the first day are going to win. But he's been around for a while. There are two names that finished this, one name that finished this morning and one name still out there. I've never heard of these people. I have never heard of Thurston Lawrence. I've heard of Thurston Howell from Gilligan's Island. I haven't heard of Thurston Lawrence. Don't know who he is. I never heard of Nigard Peterson. I don't know who they are. What I watched for and what I think a lot of people watched for. Yeah, but I don't know him. What I. What a lot of people watch for is the names that you come to the table with. Scheffler, who was minus for a while and then went plus for a while. Rory was minus two bogey, six holes. One of the bogey holes he got. He needed a 30 foot putt to bogey the hole. DeChambeau is in the plus. Shle is in the plus. They're not out of it. Of course they're not out of it. And I've enjoyed watching.
- [06:11]
Mike Wilbon
I did too. I started watching at some ungodly hour out here in the Pacific time zone. I was watching it like, like a Cornheiser, like 5am time. And I. And that's the only thing I'm going to get up that early is to either catch a flight or watch, you know, watch, watch golf. Like this Tony Spawn, I'm curious about him because he lost the players in a playoff, right?
- [06:36]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, but he was in a playoff.
- [06:39]
Mike Wilbon
And he was a playoff. Yeah, but you know bogeys. This, this is the first competitive round he's ever played at Oakmont. He, like, never seen the joint. And maybe Dangerous is bliss. Maybe all of this. Oh my God, the course is going to kill you. Maybe he just stepped up there and went, what?
- [06:58]
Tony Kornheiser
No. Have you played off?
- [06:59]
Mike Wilbon
I've driven Pat.
- [06:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [07:00]
Mike Wilbon
I've driven through it.
- [07:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. Right. Everybody started on the eighth hole. You see over my right shoulder? That's an Oat Monk flag. I played it once. I'm a 20. I should not be allowed on that course. No, I shot 150. No, no. It's too hard. Let's move to hockey. The Edmonton Oilers are once again in Florida, where they got drilled six to one in game three. Connor McDavid is calling tonight's game four quote pivotal. Wilbourn, you've been back in Edmonton all year. What are you calling this game?
- [07:27]
Mike Wilbon
Pivotal. Mandatory. You're going to win the champ. If you're going to be champions, you re. And it's not even the game number. Okay, if this was game two, if it was game three, if it was game five, you can't play like slobs, which is what the Edmonton Oilers did in game three. And now they've lost back to back games two and three. But two wasn't an embarrassment. It was an overtime loss. It was just. Is one of those great Stanley cup finals games. Game three, they played like. Like slobs.
- [07:56]
Tony Kornheiser
All right.
- [07:56]
Mike Wilbon
There's no other way. I mean, I. We're not going to soft. So soft pedal this. So they need to respond. And I'm not just talking about Skinner, who will apparently start in goal after being pulled from game three, which is exactly what should have happened. He's back in goal. He's a pro. He's got them this far. McDavid, dry Seidl. But not just them. They lead the way. Nurse Kane. I don't want to see slob play from the Edmonton Oilers tonight. If you're going to be champs, be champs tonight.
- [08:32]
Tony Kornheiser
There are questions about Skinner. Obviously, there are no questions on the other side, because the other side is Bobrovsky, who everybody has as one of the top goalies in the game. And he's got something Skinner doesn't have, which is a Stanley cup ring from last year. But I was told today that Skinner is called the king of game four, that in game fours in his life, he is six and zero. So they're going to need that. Is it pivotal? They lost game three. Everybody who loses a game in the playoffs thinks the next game is probably pivotal. Unless it's a 30 situation. I'm sure Oklahoma City looks at game 4 against Indiana and thinks it's pivotal. This is the great joy of the NFL playoffs, and every game is pivotal because it's the best of one. Like, it's not best of three. It's best of one. You know, Mike, they were down 30 last year, and they came back to force a game seven. So I don't know that three one is necessarily the worst position that they could be in, but I mean, I think what you take away from this is Florida as Edmonton is a really worthy team and even more experienced in the Stanley cup final.
- [09:36]
Mike Wilbon
Don't you think, Tony? The championship ring validates you and even to you, to yourself. But you cannot have those stupid penalties Edmonton have. You cannot just be sort of lazy on the forecheck. They.
- [09:50]
Tony Kornheiser
They.
- [09:51]
Mike Wilbon
They know all the stuff they were pathetic at in game three. They better get it changed.
- [09:57]
Tony Kornheiser
They have a short history in this Stanley cup and last year's. They don't score. Edmond doesn't score a lot in Florida. They don't. Let's take a break. Coming up, what's the appropriate level of concern over the men's national soccer team? We' he asked Taylor Twelman.
- [10:13]
Mike Wilbon
We'll also ask him whether Christian Pulisic is right. The critics who question his commitment to Team USA are way out of line.
- [10:23]
Tony Kornheiser
You gotta play Oakmont. You gotta get ready for a triple digit.
- [10:26]
Mike Wilbon
I've been invited. I've been invited.
- [10:28]
Tony Kornheiser
You gotta go.
- [10:29]
Unknown
Pardon the interruption is brought to you by Panera. It just meals. Good.
- [10:42]
Tony Kornheiser
The US Men's soccer team appears to be a mess. And to help us sort out what's happening is our friend, the lead analyst for MLS Season Pass on Apple TV. Mr. Taylor. 12. Until we start with this, the team has now lost four straight home games for the first time since 1988. That's like almost 40 years ago. 1988. The Gold cup starts Sunday. The World cup is a year away. What is the appropriate level of concern right now?
- [11:10]
Taylor Twellman
I'm not going to say panic, but I'm teetering on panic. And the reason why is I think you two gentlemen will know this better than anyone, is that a lot can happen in sports in a year, let alone six months. And so a year from now is when the World cup will kick off in 16 cities, three countries. That's why I'm not going to panic. However, if you would have asked me that question last summer, you asked me that question three summers ago, I would have said unequivocally, the United States men's national team would not be in the predicament that they're in where they're bombing out of Copa America, the fact that they're losing home games four in a row, they've lost to Panama, Canada, I can go up and down the list, and we're even questioning whether or not the star player wants to play for him. I'm not panicked, but I am very, very concerned in this present moment.
- [11:59]
Mike Wilbon
Well, that's a good launching point. To sort of scale this down a little bit to Christian Pulisic, who is at the center of all this discussion. Of course, he told the call it what you want podcast this morning that critics who question his commitment to the US national team are way out of line. Taylor, where you come down on all this stuff with Mr. Pulisic?
- [12:22]
Taylor Twellman
I agree with them, Wilburn, I do. And listen, I was there for his debut. I've been there from the beginning of his international career. Every single time he has stepped on the field, he has bled red, white and blue. I've never questioned the commitments, however, I'm questioning the collective commitments on whether or not they fully understand the magnitude of what this World cup is. And I got to raise my hand and apologize to every single one of your watchers and listeners on ESPN right now. I called this team the golden generation. I did. That's my fault, because I don't know if they are. They don't have a signature win, and yet they're going into the biggest World cup in the history of the game, and it's in their backyard. And you guys on PTI are asking me whether or not the captain is committed. That is as a big of a distraction as there is.
- [13:14]
Tony Kornheiser
But.
- [13:14]
Taylor Twellman
But to directly answer your question unequivocally, he's committed to the United States and he wants to play for the United States. I just don't. I don't know collectively if they're good enough to do it.
- [13:25]
Mike Wilbon
Well, let's bring Mauricio Pochettino into this because he had to know when he took this gig. There'd be very few chances to sort of put all this together before World cup, and now we're in this position. What do you think of his approach, his influence so far in this whole process?
- [13:43]
Taylor Twellman
It's a D minus if I had to give him a grade. And the only reason why it's not enough is because exactly what you just said will Bond. He hasn't had a ton of time to acclimate to the international game, but this is a club manager, and this a club manager that's now trying to get into this situation where you're not with them every single day. It is very disappointing to me how inaccurate he is in assessing what is live on the field, in what is in action. The fact that they lose to Switzerland 4 nil at home, and until halftime, that team didn't even look like they had any idea on what they wanted to do. It's a D minus, for lack of a better way to put it. It is a D minus and he knows it because he took the onus on it. Pressures on him for as dignified as a manager that he is, I am shocked at how disappointing he's been in trying to identify the personality of the group for a lack of a better way to put it. There's no personality, there's no identity. And the fact is they are up against it and trying to figure that out in over 364 days here.
- [14:52]
Tony Kornheiser
So I'll get you out of here on this. I'll keep the World cup in abeyance because that is, as you've said before, a year away. But the Gold cup is a couple of days away. And we had the story the other day that the roster wasn't complete, you know, with the American stars and people were staying away. Given all of that and now the. The spotlight on this team, what constitutes success for the United States in the Gold Cup?
- [15:19]
Taylor Twellman
Tony, great question. 2021. Greg Burhalter did the exact same thing going into the Gold cup before they went into World cup qualifying for the 22 World cup, they lost 3 nil to Venezuela and they ended up winning that Gold Cup. I know things look dire, but they have to get to the final. And if you don't get to the final, then you can re ask me your first question. And I'm going to tell you I'm a little panicked. I don't care if this is the B team. I don't care if this is the C team. If you consider yourself a real quote, unquote contender in the World cup in a year, then unequivocally, I don't care who's on the roster. You've got to get to the Gold cup final and. And then you can assess who you play, if it's Mexico or Canada, whoever it may be. But Tony, call me if they're not in the final, because then it's a disappointment.
- [16:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Thank you, Taylor. So good to have you back. Thank you.
- [16:11]
Mike Wilbon
Thank you, man.
- [16:12]
Taylor Twellman
Good seeing you boys.
- [16:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's take one last break. Still to come, another team rejects the Knicks request for permission to talk to their coach. Of course they do.
- [16:22]
Taylor Twellman
Goodness.
- [16:22]
Mike Wilbon
Another day, another, another no. And Cadjet's goalie Connor Hellebuck win both the Vezina and Hart Trophi tonight. Why hasn't the NHL given out these awards before now? What are they waiting on?
- [16:37]
Tony Kornheiser
So I love having Taylor Twillman on the show. I know. I know nothing about soccer. But you are Mr. Soccer for this show. You are Mr. Soccer.
- [16:47]
Unknown
Pardon the interruption. Is brought to you by Popeyes. Love that chicken from Popeyes.
- [16:56]
Tony Kornheiser
Send us some Popeyes. I like that. Happy time, people. Happy 84th birthday, Marv Albert. Growing up in New York, I listened to Marv called Knicks games and Rangers games. Kids throughout the New York area would imitate Marv's signature yes call that he used in basketball games. Marv's two brothers, Al and Steve, were play by play guys, too. Marv's son Kenny is calling the Stanley Cup Final on TNT and does play by play on NFL games. Marv did New York Giants football games on radio. He did Monday Night Football and Super Bowls on radio. Did the NBA games on TNT for a million years and then he retired at 80. Well, but I think I'll call Marv tonight just to hear his voice.
- [17:34]
Mike Wilbon
That is such a flex. It was so cool when cable sports on television expanded, jumped and you could hear Marv. He didn't just belong in New York anymore. The rest of us got to hear Marv Albert. It was so cool and still is.
- [17:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Happy anniversary, Dirk Nowitzki. On this day 14 years ago, Nowitzki was named Finals MVP as the Dallas Mavericks closed out the Miami Heat 10595 in Game 6 for the only title in franchise history. In that series, Nowitzki averaged 26 points and almost 10 rebounds a game. Nowitzki's relationship with the Mavericks has been talked about recently because he wasn't seen much at games since the general manager traded away Luka Doncic, who Nowitzki is close to. But Nowitzki sounded optimistic about Dallas winning the draft lottery. And he has attended wnba, Dallas Wings games and has been complimentary of Paige.
- [18:23]
Mike Wilbon
Becker's way back in, like, the early 90s. The first time I heard Dirk Nowitzki's name, Charles Barkley's in Europe, I think, on a Nike junk. And he comes back and he says, hey, boy, there's this big German. He's like 14. He's gonna be great. I'm trying to bribe him to go to Auburn. And you're like, charles, what are you talking about? Big German who's 14. It was Dirk. Charles got it right. And Dirk, Dirk, you want to talk about the coolest guy in the world? Dirk's on the short list. He is.
- [18:52]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy trails to another coaching possibility for the New York Knicks. Casey Johnson reports that the Bulls have denied the Knicks permission to talk to Billy Donovan. So add Donovan to a list of employed coaches the Knicks wanted to talk to but can't. And that includes Jason Kidd of the Mavericks. Ime Udoka, the Rockets, Chris Finch of the Timberwolves and Quinn Snyder of the Hawks. Ian Begley of sportsnet New York reports that this is all part of the Knicks plan to see who might be available. Of course, it also could be evidence of no real plan at all.
- [19:23]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah, I'll just say amen to that, Tony. And also mention something that really was disturbing for a lot of us. David Greenwood, the great former UCLA star who was drafted by the Chicago Bulls when we didn't win the coin flip and get Irvin. Magic Johnson passed away at 68 years old. But David Greenwood was a pro and then the Bulls traded him for George Gervin. He only played one year with Michael Jordan in Chicago. David Greenwood passing at 68 is just tremendously sad.
- [19:52]
Tony Kornheiser
Too young. A couple of corrections and they are both Wilbones. Of course, only five teams passed on Benedict Mathren as he was drafted sixth. And people from Denmark, Mike. Are called Danes, not Denmark's Denmarks. Let's go to the big finish if we could.
- [20:06]
Mike Wilbon
You listening to?
- [20:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. Former Bengals linebacker Jermaine Pratt signed a one year deal with the Raiders. Okay by you?
- [20:13]
Mike Wilbon
Four and a half million bucks for a guy who led the Bengals in tackles last season.
- [20:16]
Taylor Twellman
Yeah.
- [20:18]
Mike Wilbon
The Bengals top draft pick defensive end Shemar Stewart has left mandatory minicamp due to unusual requests in his contract talks that could impact his guaranteed money.
- [20:28]
Tony Kornheiser
Your thoughts everybody on the Bengals defense and it was terrible last year. They're walking away. The good ones are walking away. The rookies walking away. A.J. wilson left the Aces, lost to the Sparks with a head injury. Your reaction gets struck in the face.
- [20:42]
Mike Wilbon
And I hope this is not serious. Or a concussion. Don't need to lose Asia Wilson for any time ever. Tigers rookie starter Jason Jobe will have season ending. Tommy John. That's a big loss, isn't it?
- [20:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Jackson four and one big loss. It's a plague. Tommy John. Last one. NHL award show is tonight at 6 Eastern. You're intrigued, aren't you?
- [21:04]
Mike Wilbon
No, I'd have been intrigued a month ago. Two months ago when the NHL and NBA. I stopped screwing around with the marketing people and announced these things when they're voted on. Stop it.
- [21:15]
Tony Kornheiser
I love Wilbon. We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornheiser.
- [21:20]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow?