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- [00:00]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond.
- [00:25]
Pablo Torre
And.
- [00:25]
Damian Lillard
And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [00:37]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre and I am so honored to be back on the show with you, Tony.
- [00:43]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. And Pablo, I say this with all sincerity. There's no one I'd rather host with at 4:30pm on esp end too. No one. You're in.
- [00:53]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, no, I believe that. Actually, I do believe that. Now that I hear the caveats, I assume will bond on a yacht, incidentally, somewhere. By the way, while you're with me.
- [01:05]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't even want to host with me at 4:30 on ESPN. I know. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. Wilbon has a day off. I'm joined by our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre finds out. The aptly named Pablo Torre. Very nice to get those cheers and I'm sure by the next break Pablo will put a tie on. And we begin today with the most recent events in the NCAA tournament. Among yesterday's contests were two great games and one blowout. The blowout was Duke's 23 point romp over Baylor. The two great games were Maryland beating Colorado State at the buzzer and Yukon coming quite close against Florida. Pablo, which of these results is the biggest deal?
- [01:47]
Pablo Torre
I gotta go to your neck of the woods, Tony. I'm going Maryland and I don't think it's especially close. I say that because of the. How the drama, the shot, that kid, by the way, apparently I learned this because of the shot. A top five pick potentially in the draft this year, just as a side note, but a bank shot from an angle that I had not seen and still don't understand. And then it's the impact, right? The impact of knocking out Colorado State, a 12 seed out of a sweet 16 that is devoid of anything like that. We'll talk about all that, the big picture, Calipari being a 10, all that. But it's what they did to the tournament and the style in which they did it.
- [02:28]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm going to get to this in a second. I want you to hold that thought because I have personal interest in that particular game for a lot of reasons. But just remember, try to count in your head how many steps Derek Queen took before he let the shot go. Just try to count. And we will get back to that. I think I want to lay away from pronouncing Duke great. Yet my caution here is that all the other teams in their conference, the acc, went out in the first round. And I wonder if this is the year, Pablo, that Duke assumes the Gonzaga role, that the conference does not prepare them well enough to win five hard games in a row, which is what you have to do if you're going to win this thing. I actually thought the best game as a whole to me, was the UConn game. UConn against Florida, because UConn hadn't lost an NCAA game in over two years. They'd won 13 straight NCAA games. And they were playing a team that many people believe, including myself, is probably the best team in the country, Florida. And they played him close, and they played them with honor. And afterwards, Danny Hurley cried, And you don't really see that a lot. I know that he's loud, and I know he can be very obnoxious, and I find myself liking him. I've liked him for a long time. But let me get to the game you're talking about.
- [03:46]
Pablo Torre
Wait, hold on. I am shocked to hear that you like someone who is loud and obnoxious. Just totally, totally shocking to me that you might appreciate the style of almost all my friends.
- [03:57]
Tony Kornheiser
Almost all my friends are loud and obnoxious. All right, so let me get to this game through the prism of my friend Steve Sands at the Golf Channel, because Steve Sands loves Maryland, loves the Terps, has picked the Terps to win this tournament, but he's a graduate of Colorado State, so he's completely torn as far as this game goes, even though he's rooting for Maryland, ahead of his own alma mater. Again, let us get to Derrick Queen. He's a great player. He's a beast. He's huge. He's facile. He's really good. He took at least three, maybe four steps and it wasn't called. If you want to swallow the whistle late in the game, Pablo, that's okay with me. Just don't tell me he didn't walk. It's like when kids take charges when they position themselves and it never gets called. They always go to their hips. They always go block. I hate this. I hate it.
- [04:45]
Pablo Torre
Tony, as the son of two doctors, you would need one of my dad's urological tools to find that whistle. If I was a reference, there's no way, no way in bleep you could do that. Now, I get it. I get your point. I get your point.
- [05:00]
Tony Kornheiser
So he walked.
- [05:01]
Pablo Torre
Look, he walked so, you know, Maryland could fly. But look, Saturday's big results, okay?
- [05:07]
Tony Kornheiser
And he's a great player. Great player.
- [05:09]
Damian Lillard
He is.
- [05:09]
Pablo Torre
And we're not. By the way, I love the quote. Before we get to Saturday, the quote was from him in the huddle. Give me the bleeper bleeping ball. I also love that. I love that. I love that Derrick Queen is that kind of a character. We might just get also in the draft as you referenced, but okay, Saturday.
- [05:27]
Tony Kornheiser
Four steps, four steps.
- [05:28]
Pablo Torre
Big result. Big result. Tony. On Saturday, John Calipari in 10 seed Arkansas upsetting Rick Pitino in 2 seed St. John's this is an ugly affair, teams combining to go just 4 of 41 from 3. But it's a tense relationship between the star coaches that added this backdrop of truly deep drama. So what was your reaction to the result?
- [05:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Let me go backwards for a second, because Calipari didn't just beat Pitino the game before that, he beat Bill Self. Bill Self and Rick Pitino are two of only three active coaches who have won multiple NCAA championships. And the third one is Danny Hurley. So Cal Perry had a great weekend. The only thing that didn't work on the weekend was was that hideous sport jacket that he was wearing against St. John's that was not great. But he also behaved very, very well. He could have gloated and he didn't gloat. They don't get along. He didn't gloat. Everything about that was pretty good as far as I was concerned. And I thought it was a great game. Not a well played game because as you say, they combined for 4.41from3, which is the worst ever in an NCAA tournament game. But Pablo, because they shot it so badly and they played so hard on defense and they had such spirit trying both teams, it turned out to me. I thought it was a great game to watch. A great game to watch.
- [06:50]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Look, Arkansas's funny to me. They're an underdog in this tournament because they're the 10th seed. They are the lowest seed to make this week. 16 and like Calipari's jacket. It's a bit of an optical illusion. Right. Arkansas should be better. They were a 16 ranked number 16 in the preseason. Obviously the regular season was bad in the sec. All of that makes them an undervalued stock to buy John Calipari at a discount. Really smart move.
- [07:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [07:17]
Pablo Torre
I want to get to Patino, though. Rick Pitino, that's that side of the, of the story here. Rick Pitino, post game. So the story here, of course, is he benches the Big east player of the year for five minutes. For five minutes as the game last five slips out of reach. And to me, I am not going to question Rick Pitino as an all time great coach. He clearly is. This coaching job, even despite the loss because he had zero first rounders on his roster, by the way, incredibly impressive. But it's the post game, Tony, in which he is asked the obvious questions, why did you bench this kid? And he managed to do the judo move of saying, you're trying to set me up to kill my own player. I'm not going to do that. And suddenly he's the conquering hero protecting his player as opposed to the guy who has to answer for his player and his decision, which to me is indefensible.
- [08:07]
Tony Kornheiser
So this is a very interesting thing. I'm pretty sure Steve Lapis was on the call of that game and he's a former coach and he was critical of Pitino during the game, which you don't expect to hear a day later at a different game. Jalen Rose, critical of Rick Pitino and I understand this, the best player he's got, he sits him the last 4:56 of the game. The only thing I can offer in his defense is, and it's probably not good enough, is that Rick Pitino is a New Yorker, which means stitched into his consciousness is the John Starks game. The game where John Starks, I believe it was a playoff game, went 2 for 18 and 1 for 10 in the fourth quarter. So I'm thinking that maybe Pitino thinks my kids doesn't have it tonight. He's 3 of 18 and 0 for 3 from 3. I'm going to save him because he doesn't have it tonight. But it must have been a galling loss to Calipari because he doesn't like them. They don't like each other.
- [08:58]
Pablo Torre
No. I don't know.
- [08:59]
Tony Kornheiser
I got no other defense. Let's take an overall look at the 16 teams that are left. The highest seed is now a 10. The next highest is a 6. There are no Cinderellas in this tournament. In fact, all the teams still playing are from major conferences. The SEC, which got a record 14 teams in, still has seven playing. Pablo, has the SEC justified all those bids?
- [09:20]
Pablo Torre
Absolutely. And it's not going to be the thing we remember from this year, the SEC vindicating itself after being doubted in light of the committee getting 14, a record 14 into the field. It's going to be remembered as the first year of this ongoing experiment in earnest about the transfer portal and nil and what it does to the thing we all care about when it comes to this sport really. Which is to say, are we at a point where the talent market is now more efficient? What do I mean by this? I mean if you're really good and you're at a mid major, are you now just going to be bought and sold towards these power conference teams such that a mid level power conference team in the SEC is going to gobble up all of the would be Cinderella's? David doesn't have a sling anymore. That's my concern here, Tony. So how do I feel about this? I'm worried for the television product because there are forces that might explain it and as we conduct the experiment.
- [10:16]
Tony Kornheiser
So normally I would sit here with Wilbon, as you know, and Wilbon is deeply distrustful of the SEC and of Duke. And every time we had Jay Bilis on the show this year, Wilbourne would talk about, oh, this is overstated, this is overrated. And he'd finally turn to Jay and he would say, can't be that good, right? And Jay would say, no, Mike, they are that good this year. The SEC is that good this year. Seven of the last 16 is, is really something. And the outlaw, I mean the longest shot on the board is John Calipari at a 10. So you know it's gonna be a chalky tournament because he's. I'm sorry, he's never Cinderella. Never. That's impossible. I understand precisely what you're saying about wondering if there's a market correction here. And this is something that I wanted to say. It's the sort of underlying point to what you're saying. It wasn't the tournament that we're used to seeing. In the first weekend There were only two really major upsets, McNeese State, right, and Drake. And they were dispatched by the second game rather handily. So now you have a flood of ranked teams. You know, you want to say that the seeding people did it, right? But it also makes me sad because the fireworks that we expect did not materialize. You got 12 of the 16 or 1, 2, 3, 4 seeds. Seven of them are ones and twos. It's not satisfying to me. I don't know the explanation. If you seem to suggest we're going to see this all the time, I don't know that. But it's not satisfying the way it usually is.
- [11:49]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, my whole thing with college basketball and I covered the tournament in person for Sports Illustrated year after year after year. The hard part was the glorious part. I had no idea who these people were. I was learning about these characters. Ali, Farok, Ganesh, Steph Curry, Davidson. These were characters. By the way, when you have it just being the biggest four conferences populating the Sweet 16, you lose that, you lose the coalition that makes this different and special and frankly, American. And so now I'm worried. I am worried. If this is a trend, it's remarkable.
- [12:22]
Tony Kornheiser
That for the last 40 years, the best two basketball conferences were the ACC and the Big East. They have a total of one team in one. Unbelievable. Let's take a break. Coming up, are Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers destined for each other?
- [12:38]
Pablo Torre
And were refs right to stop two goalies from fighting last night?
- [12:43]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, Pablo, they've always had poaching bigger schools, always poached from little schools, but now you can offer money right out there, so it's an easier get. So maybe that's what we're going to see, right?
- [12:56]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [13:30]
Wilbon
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- [14:43]
Tony Kornheiser
Time to give the viewers some validation and mail time. Let me see what's first Pablo, you can't find a tie in Los Angeles between segments. Really? That's so hard to believe. Does it now feel inevitable that Aaron Rodgers will be the next starting quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers?
- [15:00]
Pablo Torre
It is not. It can't be, Tony. It can't be. Because I am a man of logic and reason and the only counter argument to why it should not be inevitable, why, rather, it is a fait accompli, as you say, is that there is no aphrodisiac like desperation. So if you're the Steelers and you're saying to yourselves, okay, we need to make a high variance move, one with high upside but massive downside, but we need that upside so much because our window as a team might be might be shutting sooner than we're familiar with, then, okay, I guess Aaron Rodgers. But you're telling me the jets get Justin Fields, they get Rogers, and they're like, yes, we like this inevitability. That's crazy talk to me. Crazy talk.
- [15:43]
Tony Kornheiser
So I'm going to run away from the word inevitable for the obvious reason. If Aaron Rodgers believes that everyone believes it's inevitable, he will make sure it doesn't happen. Because no one likes drama the way Aaron Rodgers likes drama. I have heard that he spent six hours talking to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Six hours. That is a long time to sit and talk. What could you talk about for six hours? You could talk about detailed menus, you know, at training camp, or the quickest way to find a darkness retreat. Look, let's understand something. This is the best place for Aaron Rodgers to be in terms of a team that needs a good quarterback. This is not the Jets. The Steelers are good. The Steelers are a playoff team. This is the softest landing spot for him. I have no idea what is taking this amount of time because nothing else. Right. There's nothing else out there that suits him. This is going to be a one year deal. See if you can win a Super bowl because you. Everybody's old. Everybody's old at this point.
- [16:50]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. My concern would be simply that the last time he was a starting quarterback, everybody around him got fired. Just a concern if I was the guy hiring him, that everybody got fired. But maybe they're not so worried about.
- [17:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Mike Tomlin's not getting fired. Mike Tomlin is not getting fired for Aaron Rodgers. That's how it's going to work. Did refs do the right thing by preventing a goalie fight between D'Arcy Kemper and. And Jeremy Swayman on Sunday night?
- [17:15]
Pablo Torre
I hate that they intervened, that they intervened for peace. I hate that there was this intervention preventing us from getting a thing. That hasn't happened since the pandemic. It's been a half decade since a goalie fight. Tony. I get, by the way, that goalies are kind of the most particular position in professional sports. It's so rare to find somebody who can capably do it that they have an emergency backup goalie. If all the good goalies, the active goalies get hurt, there's a guy sitting in the stands of every NHL game who, who might be called into action like mid hot dog bite. It's really hard to find goalies. I get why they protect them, but this as a matter of sheer delight, Tony. You have to have wanted to see this. You have to have wanted to see these guys in their pads doing this.
- [17:57]
Tony Kornheiser
Everybody wants to see a goalie fight. The teammates of the goalie want to see a goalie fight. The fans go crazy when they skate to center ice and they start taking off gear and they get ready to fight. I mean, everybody understands this. It's right out of Gladiator. Come on, let's go. Everybody wants to see it. Where you and I disagree is I'm glad they stopped it. And here's why I think the playoffs are on us in about three to four weeks. And the most important position in all of sports in a playoff situation is a goaltender in the NHL. What if you break your hand in a fight and you're lost? You actually, you can't have. It's great that you want. If you want to fight, sign up for UFC 753 or whatever the number is now, you know, but I'm glad I'm glad that the referee stopped it. And by the way, being willing to fight isn't the same as wanting to fight. Enough email. Let's take one last break. Still to come, how concerned should the Dodgers be about Mookie Betts and the stomach issue that continues to plague him? Very concerned kids and the new head.
- [19:03]
Pablo Torre
Coach of the U.S. men's soccer team asked the fans to not get pessimistic after two bad losses.
- [19:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Mookie Betts has lost like 15 to 20 pounds. He doesn't have that. He doesn't have that.
- [19:16]
Pablo Torre
I don't have that.
- [19:17]
Tony Kornheiser
How are you gonna put that?
- [19:19]
Pablo Torre
Are you not entertained though?
- [19:21]
Brian Buckmire
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- [20:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 69th birthday. Steve Ballmer, the Clippers billionaire, is the richest owner in the NBA. Ballmer bought the team after the NBA decided Donald Sterling had to sell for conduct unbecoming. That was 2014. In the ensuing 11 seasons, the Clippers have collected a lot of big names like Kawhi Leonard, James Harden, Paul George, but very little to show for them. The Clippers reached the Western conference finals in 2021. That's it. Ballmer is often wildly enthusiastic as he watches games in his new lovely Intuit Dome. Spirited behavior he demonstrated at Microsoft as well. But you have to wonder, Pablo, at how disappointed he is at the lack of results of his team.
- [21:08]
Pablo Torre
He has paid everything possible, given everything possible, to get a winner. Hasn't gotten it quite yet, despite the fact that he shows, by the way, at every turn that he will pour blood and sweat into it and sweat being in no short supply. I believe he's the second sweatiest man on the planet after, of course, Dan Leitar.
- [21:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Ler Ler number one, retired the trophy. Happy anniversary, Andy Enfield. On this day 12 years ago, Enfield coached Florida Gulf coast and their aggressive Dunk City offense past San Diego State to become the first 15 seed to ever make the Sweet 16. Shortly after Gulf coast run ended, Enfield took the head coaching job at USC. In 11 seasons there, Enfield made five trips to the NCAA tournament, highlighted by an Elite Eight spot in 2021. Unfortunately for Enfield, last season the Trojans went 15 and 18 and Enfield jumped to SMU rather than accompany USC into the Big Ten. This season, SMU went 24 10, finished a respectable 137 in the ACC and got a trip to the NIT.
- [22:10]
Pablo Torre
I just want to pour some out for Florida Gulf coast, by the way, so Dunk City. It wasn't just a case of me learning about a player I'd never heard of. It was a school. They had a spike in 30% applications because of their run to the tournament. That's what we're worried about. Tony, we talked about before. That's what I want to preserve. Schools like that, coaches like this, at places like that.
- [22:31]
Tony Kornheiser
A melancholy trails to George Foreman. The two time heavyweight champ died Friday at the age of 76. Everyone loved Foreman when he won Olympic gold in 1968. Then everyone hated or feared him when he was heavyweight champ the first time around. Later when he came back, everybody liked him again as he became as well known for his grill and his charm as for his boxing. The most salient point about Foreman's heavyweight career is that the thing we remember most is the fight he lost in what was then Zaire to Muhammad Ali. The rope, a dope. Rumble in the Jungle, Ali Boomaye.
- [23:03]
Pablo Torre
George Foreman, a legend in every sector. He entered the grill. Tony, I just checked it out today. Still the number one best selling indoor grill on Amazon. George Foreman being known as much for the product after his career as a career in which he was and again just considered how hard it is for there to be a third leg of a tripod when the first two are Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali. George Foreman was their peer, was their peer, was terrified. That's what we lost.
- [23:36]
Tony Kornheiser
That all of that without question. Big finish. Here we go. LeBron returned in a Lakers loss. Steph Curry could join the warriors tomorrow in Miami. What's the bigger deal?
- [23:45]
Pablo Torre
It's a bigger deal because it's Steph and also Jimmy Butler back in Miami. The US Men's soccer team lost to Panama and Canada in the nation's Cup. Is that a cause for concern?
- [23:54]
Tony Kornheiser
We're not a very good team. Doesn't matter how great the coach is, you're not going to change that around in the first few months that you're there. Don't work that way, Mookie Bat still can't keep food down, though. He says his body feels good. Your thoughts?
- [24:06]
Pablo Torre
Apparently he's just able to eat smoothies. No solid foods, just smoothies. That seems worrisome to me. Ben McCollum, meanwhile, is leaving Drake for Iowa. Ryan Odom is going from VCU to Virginia. Will Wade from McNeese to NC State. And Sean Miller is leaving Xavier finally for Texas. What's the biggest deal?
- [24:26]
Tony Kornheiser
The guy at Drake who left Drake did it with D2 players. That's remarkable. Ryan Odom's dad was an assistant at uva. Ryan Odom is going back to where he grew up. And he's the guy who was at UMBC that beat UVA. Last one, the 11 year old Paul Skeens rookie card. His card ended up selling for $1.1 million. Your reaction?
- [24:47]
Pablo Torre
My reaction is I hope my mom didn't throw out my baseball cards.
- [24:51]
Tony Kornheiser
If you're watching, you got a skins? I don't think so. You got older. Now we're out of time. We're trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [24:58]
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. PTI is back on ESPN regular time tomorrow.
- [25:02]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They, they are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for, like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [25:38]
Wilbon
Rapper Sean Diddy Combs was a kingmaker. He had wealth, fame and power.
- [25:44]
Tony Kornheiser
What's up?
- [25:44]
Pablo Torre
Welcome to New York.
- [25:46]
Wilbon
Until it all came crashing down.
- [25:48]
Pablo Torre
Federal investigators raiding two homes owned by.
- [25:51]
Damian Lillard
Hip hop mogul Sean Diddy Combs.
- [25:53]
Wilbon
I'm Brian Buckmire, an ABC News legal contributor. As Diddy heads to trial, we trace his remarkable rise and fall. And what could be next? Listen to Bad Rap the Case Against Diddy, a new series from ABC Audio, coming March 25th. Wherever you get your podcasts.