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- [00:01]
Narrator/Advertiser
5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius Live Fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com.
- [00:25]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon.
- [00:27]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony.
- [00:28]
Mike Wilbon
The Guinness Book of World Records says the oldest manatee on record is 71.
- [00:34]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser, 71. He's a kid. Get out of here. Get out of here. 71. Do you know anything about manatees? Have you ever seen a manatee?
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Mike Wilbon
Yeah, I actually have. Yeah.
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Tony Kornheiser
I have not.
- [00:47]
Mike Wilbon
You have not?
- [00:49]
Tony Kornheiser
No, I have not. But you don't.
- [00:50]
Mike Wilbon
You're not a fishing guy. Neither am I. Neither one of us.
- [00:54]
Tony Kornheiser
No. I don't know what we're doing. But you don't fish for manatee, do you? I don't fish for them. They're not fish, are they? Are they fish? Is that what they're considered? Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, could the Seahawks let Kenneth Walker walk? Are the spurs or Pistons poised for a greater second half success? And why did Tony Clark step down? But we begin today with college basketball. Last night, number six, Iowa State beat number three, Houston at Iowa State. The Cyclone second victory over a top 10 team in three days since beating Kansas on Saturday. Last night, Duke demolished Syracuse 101 to 64, the largest margin of victory all season for the number three Blue Devils. And tonight, number one Michigan is at number seven, Purdue, before Michigan's game against Duke on Saturday right here in Washington, D.C. wilvine, you have dived into college basketball. So which of these storylines intrigues you the most?
- [01:48]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, I haven't. A week ago, if you had asked me this question, I would have given you an answer that revolves around, that revolved past tense, around the Big 12. Because Arizona, as you know, was undefeated and that's right, you know. And BYU hadn't lost its second best player to a season ending injury. But Tony, now that we've got some developments on that side in that conference, I'm not going with the acc and I'm going with Michigan and Purdue. Look, Michigan's the number one team. Once Arizona lost two games, you know, you had to go, come on now, you got to go with Michigan, which is number one team conference and Purdue. Didn't Purdue start the season as the number one team in the country in most polls.
- [02:29]
Tony Kornheiser
I believe so.
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Mike Wilbon
So, Tom, I'm going to. I'm going to go with them. I know that seems chalky and predictable of me, but I just think that Michigan is a team that a lot of people have picked the last four to six weeks to go the whole distance anyway. And now they got this big game against Purdue tonight. So that's the game I'm looking at.
- [02:48]
Tony Kornheiser
I am not going to give short shrift to the Big 12 because they're loaded. They've got Iowa State and Houston and Kansas and Arizona. That's four of the top eight teams in the country. And Texas Tech, which beat Arizona at Arizona, is 13. I'll be honest, I never thought of the Big 12 as a basketball conference. I thought of Kansas and a bunch of middling teams. But now it looks like the path to the Final Four is going to go through the Big 12 on some level. But I will tell you this, Mike. I tuned in last night, dropped in a couple of times on Syracuse. I was watching the Olympics. I was watching the pair skating, which I liked, but I dropped in for nostalgic reasons because of all those years that Mike Krzyzewski was the coach at Duke, all those years that his dear friend Jimmy Boeheim was the coach at Syracuse, and they never played each other because they weren't in the same conference and they shouldn't be in the same conference now. They shouldn't be. But I will tell you, Mike, that game was brutal. That was not competitive. They showed a shot once of Carmelo Anthony in the stands because his son plays for Syracuse. I felt badly for him. There's something really wrong in Syracuse. They got to go to a reset. It's. This is. I think what's happening there is what happened about the second or third year at Michigan with Juwan Howard, and they had to go to a reset. It's just not working, by the way.
- [04:06]
Mike Wilbon
They played once, famously, because I was at courtside when Jim Boeheim comes right out of his suit jacket, a famous one. That jacket, I think, got auctioned off for a whole lot of money. So that was. That was in Durham at Cameron Indoor Stadium. So they played each other in the. Once in a regular season. But, Tony, I don't think that game informed me last night for the very thing you hint at.
- [04:28]
Tony Kornheiser
Syracuse is okay.
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Mike Wilbon
You know what I mean?
- [04:30]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Okay, that's fair.
- [04:32]
Mike Wilbon
And then Carolina, if we're talking about the acc, is missing Caleb Wilson, at least for the moment. So we're going to move to the salary Cap conundrums in the National Football League, The Seahawks are reportedly unlikely to bring back Super Bowl MVP Kenneth Walker as a transition or franchise tag would increase his salary from 2.7 million a year to somewhere between 11 and 15. This comes on the heels of the Dolphins releasing Tyreek Hill and three others, with Tua potentially next to go. Tone, Seahawks, Dolphins, whose choices are more intriguing to you?
- [05:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, well, I mean, look, the Dolphins are just dumping salary at the moment. They're dumping big names and big salaries like Tyree Kill and Bradley Chubb.
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Mike Wilbon
Bradley Chubb.
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Tony Kornheiser
They got to do something with Tua. Tua is going to be owed $54 million whether he stays or goes. So just as an aside here, I'll say they ought to trade him even up for Kyler Murray, you know, that's what they ought to do, and just switch quarterbacks. It looks like, Mike. It looks like they're surrendering next season already. They got a new gm, they got a new coach. They're going to lose a whole lot of games, and maybe these guys will get one more season out of it. I am not intrigued by them because I think that they are deliberately capsizing the boat. I'm intrigued by Seattle because they just won the super bowl and now they've got a juggle. And this is what happens when you win and everybody wants more money. I mean, Kenneth Walker, I know. I understand. He was the catalyst for their offense. Their offense did not win a Super Bowl. Their defense won the Super Bowl. But he was the catalyst for their offense. Can they bring him back? I guess they don't want to bring him back. So are they. Do they believe that Zach Charbonnet, coming back from a serious injury, will be their number one back? Because you cannot. You gotta give money to Jackson Smith and Jigba. You have to. He was the player of the year in the entire league. You have to give him money. And I know that you like. You like Shahid. Rashid Shahid.
- [06:38]
Mike Wilbon
Yes, I do.
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Tony Kornheiser
The other wide receiver who's a free agent as well.
- [06:41]
Mike Wilbon
Tone, the Dolphins are irrelevant. As a matter of fact. Oh, wait. We spent a whole week talking about when people do what the Dolphins do. They're tanking, but yet somehow the Dolphins are just cutting salary. Please, I don't want to hear that garbage.
- [06:54]
Tony Kornheiser
The Dolphins are giving up on the.
- [06:56]
Mike Wilbon
Irrelevant, and they're tanking already before the season begins. You know, and I'm offended by that.
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Tony Kornheiser
They could be worse than the jets in that division.
- [07:06]
Mike Wilbon
That's. They got to be worse than the really bad but when you give up on the super bowl mvp, this is a huge gamble to me because defense goes with a couple of other things. Running the football and special teams and you need to have all of them. Complimentary football I hear on every network a thousand times a day. Kenneth Walker, they're going to give. I don't believe it. I know what's out there and being reported. Let's see them actually let Kenneth Walker walk. I ain't buying it.
- [07:39]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's move to the NBA and do a made up story because the NBA is off for a few days to rest up from being off for the previous few days. Here it is. There are two young teams emerging before our eyes in the east and the West. The Detroit Pistons and the San Antonio Spurs. Wilbourne, you have said this a thousand times. Young teams cannot win. They have to lose first and be disappointed. So in which team do you have more confidence the rest of the way this season? The spurs or the Pistons?
- [08:06]
Mike Wilbon
Oh, I'm going to shock you now.
- [08:08]
Tony Kornheiser
The Detroit Pistons, I expect, I fully expect them.
- [08:13]
Mike Wilbon
Did you? Because Tone, they played in the playoffs last year. You're right. I have said for 50 years and I know you don't disagree with me because we have seen old people come through in the playoffs, in the finals. We know many of those old people when they were young and now they're old. The NBA is not a young guys league. And so San Antonio didn't even get to the playoffs last year. They hadn't even been. They don't even know what that feels like. The Pistons do. And so Cade Cunningham, who could be the mvp, he could. He's not the most important player in the league win. Bunyama is that. But Cade Cunningham could be the mvp. You got Duran, who's a big, strong, tough bad boy like Piston with talent. You've got Isaiah Stewart, big, bad, strong, tough, Piston bad boy. I mean in that sort of M.O. you got Tobias Harris, who's an ace. I like Detroit, Tony, I do. And Bickerstaff is their coach. I, I like Detroit right now in the East.
- [09:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I mean I agree with all of that and so I won't take a whole lot of time here. I'll just pick the Pistons and do the math. The pistons are 40 and 13. They're in first place in the East. They're five and a half games ahead of the Celtics. The spurs are 38 and 16. They're in second place in the West. They're three behind Oklahoma City. I know they have done well against Oklahoma City this year. But they're behind them. Detroit is not behind anybody. You know.
- [09:42]
Mike Wilbon
That's right.
- [09:43]
Tony Kornheiser
And they're in the easier conference. They don't have to go through Denver and they don't have to go through Minnesota and Houston and they don't have to go through OKC in the playoffs. And as you say, they've never been to the playoffs. And Kate Cunningham's got six games worth of experience where he averaged like 26 points, eight rebounds and nine assists. Something like that. I just think, Mike, I think they're further down the road.
- [10:05]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah.
- [10:06]
Tony Kornheiser
Than, than the spurs are at the moment. Let's take a break. Coming up, what does the sudden resignation of Tony Clark mean for baseball's player's union? We will ask Jeff Passen.
- [10:16]
Mike Wilbon
We'll also ask him how realistic a work stoppage appears to be. But you still like, do you know.
- [10:21]
Tony Kornheiser
That, do you know that this Saturday, college teams 1, 2, 3 and 4 playing against each other in the regular season, Only the third time ever in the regular season.
- [10:30]
Mike Wilbon
I didn't realize that.
- [10:31]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [10:32]
Mike Wilbon
That's, that's pretty.
- [10:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Bring popcorn to that. And they had all week winning ticket games.
- [10:37]
Mike Wilbon
They could have done that.
- [10:37]
Tony Kornheiser
This is going to affect the seating while the NBA great games this week.
- [10:42]
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- [11:13]
Rich Eisen
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- [12:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony Clark resigned today as head of baseball's players union after an internal investigation reportedly revealed he had an inappropriate relationship with his sister in law who worked at the organization. And that means we have questions for ESPN Senior MLB Insider Jeff Passon. Let's start with this, Jeff. How big a deal is this development at this time for the union?
- [12:48]
Jeff Passon
It's a really big deal, Tony, and it's a big deal because of how they found out that information. There was an internal investigation being done at the union in response to an Eastern District of New York investigation into the union about questions of financial improprieties and other such things. All of this came from a whistleblower complaint back in November 2024 with the National Labor Relations Board in which some things, including nepotism, were alleged against Tony Clark and his sister in law had been hired in 2023 to work in the union's Arizona office. And the revelation of this relationship took players on the executive subcommittee, the eight most powerful players in labor relations with the union, and took it to the point where it really was no coming back. Tony Clark already had been part of this investigation and federal authorities have been looking into him. But that on top of everything else in a year where the collective bargaining agreement exp buyers on December 1, ultimately it was just too much for him to keep his job.
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Mike Wilbon
Well, Jeff, let's naturally spin it forward. Who do you see replacing Tony Clark? And regardless of who that is, is it likely to change the union's approach as we go toward and then beyond December 1st?
- [14:11]
Jeff Passon
Yeah, I think it's a very fair question about the approach. The person who's likeliest is Bruce Meyer. He's the deputy executive director of the mlbpa. He has been lead negotiator. He's somebody who's been around for one collective bargaining agreement already. And this is such a seminal and important one, Mike, because owners want a salary cap and the players association is going to resist it tooth and nail. Players have since they got to the big leagues and even before that, they have gotten it nailed into their head that we are the only sport without a salary cap. We are going to remain that way. And so the timing of this, I mean it's never good when you're executive director, but it would have been a whole lot worse in October, November. So, you know, players at this point are looking at it like this gives us a chance to get our ducks in a row. And whether it's Bruce Meyer or somebody else, internally at least it's going to be someone with which they are familiar.
- [15:10]
Mike Wilbon
Since we know this is about a salary cap, I mean, let's not play around here. Is there some form of it? Because we've seen soft caps, as you know, Jeff, hard caps in the other league. Is there leagues, is there some form of it that is palatable to the players at all?
- [15:28]
Jeff Passon
No. And it's hard to blame the players, Mike. You know, Juan Soto getting $765 million last year, Kyle Tucker getting $60 million a year this year. This system's been pretty good to the players. And yet the important thing to remember in this situation, it's not just that the public is very pro cap and would like to Major League Baseball to have a cap. It's that it's really hard when you have this institutional opinion that has been hammered into guys heads for generations to get them off of that. When they look at the system right now like it works. Now you can make an argument, and I think a pretty profound argument, that the system isn't working for all of baseball right now. When the Dodgers are paying $550 million for players and the Miami Marlins have a $70 million payroll, the disparity there is enormous. But is there a compromise? Is there a solution to be found without a cap being put into place? I believe that there is. The question at this point is are the parties that are involved willing to go and find that? Because if not, the 2027 season really is in jeopardy at that point.
- [16:41]
Tony Kornheiser
I would get you out of here on this. We'll ask you to be pretty quick. And it's the question you've been expecting. It's everybody's question. What are the realistic chances that there will actually be a work stoppage next season.
- [16:55]
Jeff Passon
When the collective bargaining agreement expires December 1st? Tony? I anticipate Major League Baseball will lock the players out. But a work stoppage is different from a work stoppage with games missed. And do I anticipate that at the end of the day the games will be missed? I think a lot of it depends on what we see by the middle of February and if there's momentum toward a deal because mid March is really the drop dead date for missing games. And it's the same thing we went through in 2022. I anticipate it happening again in 2027.
- [17:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Jeff, thanks for taking like this. Thank you very much. Thank you.
- [17:32]
Jeff Passon
Thank you, boys. I appreciate you having me.
- [17:36]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's take one last break. Still to come, could Caleb Wilson and his hand be back sooner than planned?
- [17:41]
Mike Wilbon
Mark Cuban has stated that tanking is overrated. You know, Mark and I, we agree because it is overstated and overrated.
- [17:51]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, well, you're both wrong. And it's okay that you agree.
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Jeff Passon
All right?
- [17:55]
Tony Kornheiser
We are baseball fans, you and I. We don't want to see a work stop.
- [17:59]
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- [18:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Dr.
- [18:16]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [18:17]
Mike Wilbon
Thanks very much for having me.
- [18:18]
Narrator/Advertiser
Michelle, We've been hearing a lot lately about cancer rates rising, especially in younger adults, which is obviously pretty alarming. What are you seeing?
- [18:25]
Mike Wilbon
Without question, cancer rates are rising across the board. And concerningly, we are seeing more aggressive cancers in people even in their 20s and 30s.
- [18:33]
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- [18:37]
Mike Wilbon
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- [18:57]
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- [20:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 62nd birthday, Buster only. Yes, this is in house and Buster is our friend. After graduating from Vanderbilt, Buster became a newspaper sportswriter and covered baseball for the Nashville Banner, the San Diego Union Tribune, the Baltimore sun and the New York Times. For the last 23 years, Buster has been with ESPN reporting on baseball. We have regularly had him as a guest on this high quality cable program. But that's not why we're doing this. We're doing this because Buster has real skills. He grew up on a dairy farm in Vermont. He can milk a cow. In high school, he learned how to make bagels from scratch. And he has provided proficient at growing potatoes. So if this whole thing goes to hell, Buster can find work and Wilbon. We cannot.
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Mike Wilbon
Yeah, I don't know how much the milking cows is going to affect you, but let me ask you this. Would you personally like to share a birthday with Michael Jeffrey Jordan a year younger? Would you want to do that? I'm just saying.
- [21:22]
Tony Kornheiser
No, because I would never get any light at the end of the tunnel. It would all be eaten up by George. No, I would not. Happy anniversary Baron Davis. On this day 25 years ago, while playing for the Hornets, Davis took an inbounds pass at the end of the third quarter and heaved an 89 foot three pointer like he was throwing a football and drilled it. It's the longest made shot in NBA history and it broke the 24 year old mark of 84ft by your boy Norm Van Leer in 1977. Not only did Davis take this ridiculous shot, but a Milwaukee defender appeared to be legitimately contesting it. Davis played 13 years in the NBA for the Charlotte and New Orleans Hornets, Golden State, the Clippers, the Cavaliers, the knicks. Davis averaged 16.1 points and 7.2 assists for his career.
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Mike Wilbon
Tony Baron Davis would be in the discussion for like all entertaining, right? Every team Baron Davis was on. And every night it was just sort of fun to be at the gym when Baron Davis took the court. Fun watching him all those years.
- [22:25]
Tony Kornheiser
UCLA player, UCLA player. In college, a melancholy trail is to Doug Moe. Moe passed away today at the age of 87. Born in Brooklyn, Moe came to basketball prominence as a two time All American at North Carolina. In the aba he was a three time all star and won a title with the Oakland Oaks. But Moe made his biggest mark as a head coach for the Spurs, Nuggets and Sixers. In Denver. He crafted a hugely fun motion offense, winning 432 games and making the postseason nine straight years. In the 1980s. He was one of those guys who everyone liked being around Tony.
- [23:00]
Mike Wilbon
No question whether it was shoot around in the morning post game in the hotel lobby. A great storyteller. As you know, Doug Moe is also a hell of a coach as you mentioned. Look, he had Ice Gervin and they got pretty far in the playoffs. I think it was in 1979 and then in 1985 with Alex English and Fat Lever, with the Nuggets coaching the Nuggets, they got to the conference final where awaiting them, sadly for them was a guy named Irvin Johnson, among others. But Doug Moe, what a career.
- [23:30]
Tony Kornheiser
He was a great friend of my camp counselor, Larry Brown. They were roommates at one point in North Carolina. And he was an assistant to Larry. At two different stops along the way we have another melancholy trail. So this is to the Reverend Jesse Jackson. The civil rights activist has passed away at the age of 84. Jackson grew up in South Carolina, played college football at Illinois and then North Carolina A and T. After graduation he worked closely with Martin Luther King Jr. And led Operation Breadbasket and later the Rainbow Push Coalition. From your hometown of Chicago, Wilbur. He ran twice for president in 1984 and 1988.
- [24:03]
Mike Wilbon
The guy with the afro and the sideburns in one of those early pictures. That guy I woke up to when I was 10 years old. He was sitting at my breakfast table in Chicago helping save my father's job. When my father had been the top salesperson at his company, yet mysteriously laid off, Jesse Jackson organized a boycott and said that will not be happening. Raymond Wilbond's job was saved by Reverend Jesse Jackson. And that money put some guys named Mike and Don, who you know, Tony, through St. Ignatius and Northwestern University, among other places.
- [24:37]
Tony Kornheiser
That is a great story. That is great.
- [24:39]
Mike Wilbon
Eternally grateful.
- [24:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's go to the big finish. Let's do it. UNC coach Hubert Davis says Caleb Wilson is learning to play with a cast on his broken non shooting hand. Could return soon. Are you surprised by that?
- [24:49]
Mike Wilbon
No. You and I both thought he would give this a shot and he's going to. Tiger woods says the Masters is not off the table for him. What do you think about this?
- [24:59]
Tony Kornheiser
What? What? Look, I would love this, but I'm going to take the under. So are you. Yeah. The Lakers would reportedly welcome back LeBron for another season. Do you think that'll happen?
- [25:09]
Mike Wilbon
Either Cleveland or L. A? I don't care. I don't want to see basketball without LeBron. I'm not ready for that. Why would you want. Nobody wants that. American figure skater Alyssa lu is in third place after this short program. All right, Dick Button Jr. Break it down.
- [25:26]
Tony Kornheiser
I have watched some of this stuff. She's the reigning world champion. I love the pairs last night. I know you didn't watch, but I loved watching it. Last one. Mark Cuban says ticket affordability is a bigger deal than tanking. And I'm sure you agree with it.
- [25:38]
Rich Eisen
Of course.
- [25:39]
Mike Wilbon
I told you the other day. Load management spend two grand for tickets. Oh, wait, he's not playing. That's worse than tank.
- [25:47]
Tony Kornheiser
No, all the courtside seats are always bought. We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. Welcome to the world, Brooklyn Williams. And congratulations, Ty and Alexa.
- [25:57]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilson. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads from 30 for 30 podcasts.
- [26:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Did you say someone got shot?
- [26:10]
Jeff Passon
Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman for Miami, gunned down the key to this case.
- [26:16]
Commercial Announcer
It's Brian.
- [26:18]
Mike Wilbon
An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing with somebody.
- [26:21]
Jeff Passon
This might be a hit.
- [26:23]
Tony Kornheiser
You want the truth?
- [26:24]
Rich Eisen
They just want a conviction.
- [26:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Being placed under arrest.
- [26:26]
Mike Wilbon
We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now.