Could the Bills and Ravens rematch in the AFC Championship?

Summary

PTI Podcast Summary

Episode: Could the Bills and Ravens rematch in the AFC Championship?
Date: September 8, 2025
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser & Michael Wilbon

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on dramatic NFL Week 1 results, especially the thrilling Ravens-Bills showdown, and the hosts’ wide-ranging, passionate banter about what various early-season outcomes really mean. Tony and Michael break down the late collapse by the Ravens, question coaching decisions, celebrate and criticize star quarterbacks, and size up both the AFC and NFC landscapes. They pepper the show with trademark wit, memorable quotes, and spirited disagreement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ravens-Bills: Epic Comeback & Early-Season Meaning

(Segment starts ~01:12)

• The Bills rallied from a 15-point deficit in the final minutes to beat the Ravens 41-40, with late heroics and a dramatic Ravens collapse.
• Both agree the game was “spectacular” but debate the significance.
  • Wilbon: Downplays the larger meaning—“I don't assign much meaning to the result because Baltimore played great for more than three quarters of the game. ... It's week one.” (01:54)
  • Points to a worrying “pattern of blowing games late” for the Ravens but insists they’re “too tough minded to wilt because of the result.”
  • Pushes back on overreactions about playoff seeding and home advantage: “A whole lot of season to be played, a whole lot of injuries. We don’t know.” (02:20)
• Tony: Calls it a “choke”:
  • “The Baltimore Ravens choked. There is no other word for it.” (03:00)
  • Highlights their ineffective final possessions: “Their last three possessions were punt, punt, fumble, fumble, punt. Whereas Buffalo had touchdown, touchdown, field goal. So they gagged.” (03:09)
  • Cites a troubling stat: “Harbaugh’s teams in the last 10 years have lost eight games where they had a double digit lead in the fourth quarter. 17 where they had a double digit lead in the second half.” (03:50)
• Both agree these are still “good teams” and that this could be a preview of an AFC Championship rematch.

Notable moment:

• Wilbon on overblown takes: “I hear people stupidly saying... if they meet in the playoffs it’s going to be in Buffalo. We don’t know that.” (02:19)
• Tony: “I thought that Harbaugh should not have punted the last one. Go for it.” (03:25)

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2. Other NFL Results: Rodgers' Revenge, Packers Dominance, NFC Shifts

(Segment starts ~04:47)

Aaron Rodgers' Big Game:

• Steelers beat Jets (Rodgers' return to form, 4 TDs, no picks, beats his old team):
  • Tony delights in Rodgers’ pettiness:
    • “He was able to say after the game, I'm quoting here, ‘I was happy to beat everybody associated with the Jets.’ So he could gloat. And he could gloat in character.” (05:04)
• Wilbon airs his long-held grievance:
  • “Aaron Rodgers takes no accountability for stinking the place out in New York.” (06:29)
  • “He insulted them on the way out the door, even though he didn’t do jack.” (06:45)

Packers vs. Lions—Division Implications:

• Tony: “The more consequential game was the Packers beating the Lions. It’s a division game. It counts for more than just one game. The Lions were smothered, the Lions got nothing.” (05:17)
• Discuss Lions' troubles post-coordinator departures (“brain drain”) and possible early struggles.

NFC Power Rankings:

• Wilbon: “I think [the Packers are] the best team in the NFC ... the Eagles are right there ... I thought the Packers had edged ahead of them to be the number one team in NFC anyway. And then they get Michael Parsons.” (07:04)
• On Micah Parsons’ impact: “He's going to be more impactful for them than he was for the Cowboys. Because there's no circus in Green Bay.” (07:27)

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3. Quarterback Spotlights & Surprises

(Segment starting ~08:06)

Daniel Jones Shines for Colts, Burrow Struggles

• Jones led Indianapolis to seven scores on seven possessions, while Joe Burrow and the Bengals sputtered.
• Wilbon: At first leans toward Jones, but is amazed at how poorly Burrow played:
  • ”Joe Burrow is a confident young man. And thinks quite a bit of himself. And he was getting his butt whooped by Miles Garrett and the Browns yesterday.” (09:13–09:18)
  • “He gets 113 yards in one quarter. With receivers who are making a billion dollars.” (10:29)
• Tony: Daniel Jones' comeback is “ironic”:
  • “He was cut by the Giants ... a failure ... Then in his first game with Indianapolis, he looks like a pro bowler, which came as a shock to everyone, including Brian Daboll I’m sure. But Burrow's numbers, or lack of numbers, are scary.” (10:01)
• Both doubt these trends will continue: “I think Burrow is going to throw four against Jacksonville next week. And I think Daniel Jones will come back to earth against Denver.” (10:51)

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4. Russell Wilson’s Ongoing Struggles

(13:01 and after, viewer mail section)

• Wilbon: “Fortunate, to say the least” for being named Giants starter, says that “he looks like it’s over.” (13:14–13:28)
• Tony: “Let me give you statistically what he did. 17 of 37. That’s under 50%. 168 yards, no touchdowns when he was under pressure. 2 of 12 for 26 yards.” (14:00)
• Notes three years of performance decline for Wilson, and that coach Brian Daboll’s job is also in jeopardy: “Brian Daboll… hasn’t been good in three years. He's 18,33 and 1 overall.” (14:39)

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5. US Open Recap: Alcaraz and Sabalenka

(15:33)

• Tony: On the women’s final—“The Sabalenka match against Anisimova was the better match ... Sabalenko is the most powerful person in women's tennis, a well deserved number one.” (15:40–15:59)
• On the men—“Alcaraz and Sinner are so much better than everyone on the men's side … in the last eight majors, one of them has won each eight.” (16:32)
• Both lament lack of dramatic challengers on the men’s side.
• Wilbon: “There are eight to ten women on tour right now who can win every major … But the men, I’m like you, it’s great tennis, but it’s lacking because we don’t see a real challenger.” (17:07–17:14)

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6. Quick Hits, Happy Time, and The Big Finish

(19:50 and after)

• Celebratory mentions:
  • Garrett Cole (Yankees, injury and return hopes)
  • Randall Cobb's record-setting debut
  • Tributes to Ken Dryden (legendary goalie) and Davey Johnson (player and manager)
• NFL Week 1 speed round: Texans’ lack of effort, Belichick and DeBoer’s wins, Aces' WNBA streak, Caitlin Clark’s season-ending injury.
• Wilbon’s Bears Preview: (24:48) “I want to pound this quarterback when he's a kid from Chicago, but we got to beat the Vikings. I need that.”
• Tony’s closing: “We’re out of time. We’ll try and do better the next time.” (25:10)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tony Kornheiser: “The Baltimore Ravens choked. There is no other word for it.” (03:00)
• Mike Wilbon: “They could be playing in the AFC Championship game. … I will assign some meaning to the pattern. And there's been a pattern of blowing games late.” (01:54)
• Tony Kornheiser: “Harbaugh’s teams in the last 10 years have lost eight games where they had a double digit lead in the fourth quarter. 17 where they had a double digit lead in the second half.” (03:50)
• Mike Wilbon: “Aaron Rodgers takes no accountability for stinking the place out in New York.” (06:29)
• Tony Kornheiser: “He was able to say after the game, I’m quoting here, ‘I was happy to beat everybody associated with the Jets.’ So he could gloat. And he could gloat in character.” (05:04)
• Wilbon on Daniel Jones: “He’s been just tossed out of a couple of places. Get out. We don’t need you. You’re not what we thought you were. Get out.” (08:48)
• Tony Kornheiser on Russell Wilson: “Russell Wilson, in fairness and in truth, the last three years, he’s been on a downhill slide.” (14:00)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:32: Show opens, Wilbon’s Bears anxiety
• 01:12: Main discussion—Ravens-Bills comeback
• 04:47: Rodgers and Packers headline NFL recap
• 08:06: Daniel Jones/Burrow discussion
• 13:01: Russell Wilson, Giants, and Daboll debate
• 15:33: US Open winners—Alcaraz & Sabalenka
• 19:50: Happy Time People—baseball and hockey legends
• 23:58: Rapid-fire big finish on other sports news
• 24:48: Wilbon’s Bears prediction/plea

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Tone & Style

The banter is rapid, sharp, and reflective of the hosts' chemistry: quick back-and-forth, dry humor, some constructive bickering, and a focus on context over hot takes. They balance stats with personal impressions and always loop back to patterns and "what it means" for the bigger picture.

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Summary

If you missed this episode, you missed classic PTI energy—fiery debates over NFL drama, especially the AFC’s marquee matchup, strong opinions on coaching and quarterbacking, and engaging detours into tennis and MLB. Wilbon and Kornheiser keep things lively, insightful, and entertaining for sports fans who want both the details and the drama, always in their signature style.

Transcript

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[Mike Wilbon]

Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. My Bears, they're playing in a couple of hours. I'm nervous. Tony, say something to calm my nerves, please.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm Tony Kornheiser. Relax. When has a Bears quarterback ever lost a big game?

[Mike Wilbon]

Cutler.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Mitch Trubisky.

[Mike Wilbon]

Grossman.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

You know, Trubisky did play in a big game. That was a playoff game. Double joint.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you really nervous? Yeah. I mean, this one's in Chicago though, isn't it?

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

So you have a playing against the Chicag kid.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

Grew up loving Urlacher. Wore Earlocker Jersey to his first game. J.J. mcCarthy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is his first game.

[Mike Wilbon]

I want to crush him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Dennis Allen. Really?

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, Aaron Rodgers throws four touchdown passes. The packers trounce the Lions. And Daniel Jones puts up bigger numbers than Joe Burrow. But we begin today with last night's spectacular game between the Baltimore Ravens and Buffalo bills. They scored 81 points between them. The Ravens were ahead by 15 points, 40 to 25 with just four minutes to go. But Buffalo got a touchdown to 40, 32. Then Derrick Henry, of all people, fumbled. Buffalo scored another touchdown to 40, 38. Missed the two point conversion. Finally, Baltimore punted with a minute and a half to go and Buffalo kicked a 32 yard field goal to win it. Wilbon, what did this result tell you about each team?

[Mike Wilbon]

They're both really good. They could be playing in the AFC Championship game. I don't assign much meaning to the result because Baltimore played great for more than three quarters of the game. I will assign some meaning to the pattern. And there's been a pattern of blowing games late.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

Double digit leads in the fourth quarter. So you can't ignore that. But if I isolate this, I'm going to isolate it just because we're in week one. Tony, I don't think that. I think the Baltimore Ravens, man to man, a staff and the culture of the Ravens, I think they're Too tough minded to wilt because of the result of the game. It's week one. I hear people stupidly saying, oh well, you know, the, the, the, the. If they meet in the playoffs is going to be in Buffalo. We don't know that. They'd have to end up tied before we know that. There's a whole lot of season to be played, a whole lot of injuries. We don't know. A whole lot of over performance, a whole lot of underperformance. It was one hell of a game. But I don't want to, I don't want to get crazy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I'm not going to disagree with any specific point that you're making. But I will say that the Baltimore Ravens choked. There is no other word for it.

[Mike Wilbon]

I'll go with that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They did not gain any yards late. Their last three possessions were punt, punt, fumble, fumble, punt. Whereas Buffalo had touchdown, touchdown, field goal. So they gagged. They gagged. And when you're talking about double digit leads and they've done this before.

[Mike Wilbon]

They have.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When you're talking about double digits lead. First of all I thought that Harbaugh should not have punted the last one. Go for it.

[Mike Wilbon]

But he didn't go for it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He never, he goes for it less than any other coach.

[Mike Wilbon]

But he also knows just from this game. And Tony, I'm with you in that. He's got to be the culture of his team is defense first.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

But in that game they had not stopped Buffalo.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Mike Wilbon]

And you got still two of the three most important weapons on the field. So I think you, Lamar Jackson and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Derrick Hendrick double digits lead. I was told something this morning that Jim John Harbaugh's teams in the last 10 years have lost eight games where they had a double digit lead in the fourth quarter. 17 where they had a double digit lead in the second half. I think it's almost meaningless like you do. I think they could very well meet in the AFC championship. But there is a disturbing pattern being set here because they've done this before. They've lost in Buffalo before. Look, Derrick Henry, let me get the number. 169 yards and two touchdowns. Lamar Jackson, 279 yards combined rushing and passing and three touchdowns. And they lost.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And they did not stop Josh Allen. So this.

[Mike Wilbon]

You have to be blaming their defense more.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, you have not.

[Mike Wilbon]

The Ravens defense we've become accustomed to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You have to be concerned if a pattern has developed here with that team. If. Good team, Great game, Great game.

[Mike Wilbon]

You could stand to see a replay of that One.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, sure.

[Mike Wilbon]

In January. Could you. Whatever round, sure. We had other results of note earlier in the day. Aaron Rodgers, you hate him. I do. I know through four touchdown passes, he was great. As the Steelers top the jets in East Rutherford, and in the NFC Central, the Packers thumped the Lions with newly acquired Michael Parsons creating three pressures. And he actually had a sack. Tony, which was more interesting to you? The Steelers beating the jets, your team, or the packers just beaten down the Lions?

[Tony Kornheiser]

The more consequential game was the packers beating the Lions. It's a division game. It counts for more than just one game. The Lions were smothered, the Lions got nothing. And you immediately ask yourself, wait, they lost two coordinators. Wait, brain drain. How much of an effect will that have on the season? From a personal level, the more fun game for me was watching the Steelers beat the jets because it was a great back and forth game. And people who hate Aaron Rodgers, like you, you have to eat it today. Because at 41 years old, he threw four touchdowns. He had no interceptions. He was able to say after the game, I'm quoting here, I was happy to beat everybody associated with the Jets. So he could gloat. And he could gloat in character. I mean, to me, that's a fabulous opening day game because you have Aaron Rodgers playing against his old team for which he did nothing for two years.

[Mike Wilbon]

See, that's, that's my issue, you know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then you have Justin Fields playing against his old team, who may have benched him too soon. They may have. They may have benched him too soon. Yeah. You know, but in terms of, of the cosmic quality of this, the other game is much more consequential to Rogers.

[Mike Wilbon]

Briefly, for a second. Who was great?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

Who's great? Aaron Rodgers takes no accountability for stinking the place out in New York. They weren't great. They. No, no accountability. None. They were. They thought I couldn't play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Guess what, pal?

[Mike Wilbon]

You couldn't. You didn't. Okay? But he didn't play for them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, he didn't.

[Mike Wilbon]

And he insulted them on the way out the door, even though he didn't do jack. You know what? For them, right? And no accountability.

[Tony Kornheiser]

None. One year he was out for everything but four plays. Okay? He was out.

[Mike Wilbon]

Now the more important game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Game. Yeah. Detroit.

[Mike Wilbon]

Come on, man. The packers look like to me, you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Think they're a Super bowl team.

[Mike Wilbon]

I think they're the best team in the nfc. Look, the Eagles are right there. The Eagles are defending champs. The Eagles haven't done anything to sort of Take themselves off the marquee. I thought, as you know, because we talked about this a little bit on Friday and Saturday, I thought the packers had edged ahead of them to be the number one team in NFC anyway. And then they get Michael Parsons.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

Who didn't even play that much yesterday. Who's going to get better.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's impactful.

[Mike Wilbon]

He's. And he's going to be more impactful for them than he was for the Cowboys. Because there's no circus in Green Bay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Mike Wilbon]

He didn't have to deal with all that nonsense. He's going to be great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're right about this. And the jets are not a consequential team.

[Mike Wilbon]

No, they're not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And by the way, if the Steelers, who claim it's the best defense they've ever had, if this is that defense.

[Mike Wilbon]

And they gave up 30 something to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The team, they are not a consequence. No. So you're completely right about the team in your division. That. That being more important.

[Mike Wilbon]

But what about teams? Because Detroit. This brain drain could be serious.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know.

[Mike Wilbon]

And they got the commanders next week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's that in Washington.

[Mike Wilbon]

And then I think they got the Bears. They got. I mean they got real tough games early on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's stay with the NFL. Let's move to quarterbacks for $800, please. Daniel Jones, in his first start for Indianapolis, led the Colts to seven scores on their seven possessions. The Colts won 33, eight over staggering Miami. And Jones had three touchdowns, one passing, two rushing over in Ohio, the Bengals barely escaped the Browns 17 16. Joe Burrow threw 23 times, gaining only 113 yards. Yet that Joe Burrow. Wilbon. Which was the most surprising performance? Jones or Burrow?

[Mike Wilbon]

All night long last night as I watched all this stuff and I watched chunks of all these games and all this morning and this afternoon I was gonna say Daniel Jones, cuz Daniel Jones.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think there's a buck coming.

[Mike Wilbon]

He's been just tossed out of a couple of places. Get out. We don't need you. You're not what we thought you were. Get out. But now I'm thinking, wait a minute. Joe Burrow? Who? Somebody had a great description of him. Was it Booger? Was. Somebody had a great description. Oh, Steve. Steve Young said he thinks he stands in front of the mirror doing curls with no shirt on. That was so great. Joe Burrow is a confident young man.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, he is.

[Mike Wilbon]

And thinks quite a bit of himself.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, he does.

[Mike Wilbon]

And he was getting his butt whooped by. By Miles Garrett and the Browns yesterday. And if his kicker play them tough. Who always played him tough?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Always.

[Mike Wilbon]

If his kicker can make a pedestrian 32 yard field goal. I know there was time left and Joe Burrow might have been Joe cool. And Joe lost that game, or whatever he's supposed to be, lost that game. They could have lost the game and then we'd be saying, oh, what's wrong? He. Because they. Everything they did in the preseason, including play preseason games, was geared to not get off to a stinky first week start.

[Tony Kornheiser]

@ least they won.

[Mike Wilbon]

At least they won.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can hold if you. Joe Burrow, you can hold the fact that they won. And by the way, they were lucky to win. Because if I'm not mistaken, having watched it, Joe Flacco had two interceptions that were catches.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yes, they were shooting at all.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm going to say it's Daniel Jones for this reason, because of the irony of Daniel Jones. He was cut by the Giants. He was drummed out of town by the Giants. He was a failure. Let's be fair in New York. And then in his first game with Indianapolis, he looks like a Pro Bowler, which came as a shock to everyone, including Brian Daboll, I'm sure. But Burrow's numbers, or lack of numbers, are scary.

[Mike Wilbon]

113 yards.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He gets 113 yards in one quarter.

[Mike Wilbon]

With receivers who are making a billion dollars.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He routinely puts up 35, 40 or 42. They put up three points in the second half. They gained seven yards in the second half. And Burrow had just finished saying, nobody plays the position as good as I do. And now he finds Daniel Jones in.

[Mike Wilbon]

The mirror doing curls. Get out the mirror and start throwing the ball like you're supposed to do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think either of these trends are going to continue. No, I don't. I think Burrow is going to throw four against Jacksonville next week. And I think Daniel Jones will come back to earth against Denver. I do. But it was amazing in its time. Let's take a break. Coming up, your boy Russell Wilson fizzles in his debut for the Giants.

[Mike Wilbon]

Carlos Alcaraz is doing something without precedent in the open era. Remember, Daniel Jones got thrown out of more than New York, multiple places. Really? Two other places.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Was he drafted by the Giants? Yeah. Did he start right away?

[Mike Wilbon]

Thrown out of three places, not one. Not just the G Men.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't know that.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

It's time for the producers to punt the show to the viewers. Let me see what's first here. Okay, here we go. Let me get glasses. How should Russell Wilson feel about being named the Giants Week 2 starter?

[Mike Wilbon]

Fortunate, to say the least. I mean, you know I root for Russell Wilson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know.

[Mike Wilbon]

But this is not like Denver when I thought he got hosed in his second stop. He just, it's. He looks like it's over.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Mike Wilbon]

Like it's over.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Yes.

[Mike Wilbon]

And it's inescapable. And I know they're playing a tough team in the Commanders, but this is a division opponent you've had weeks to get used to Russell Wilson and what it is you think he can do and how to call plays and take advantage of what Russell Wilson used to do well when he was on the way to two Super Bowls. And now you're like, eh, it's time to put the kid in. And it seems like every former player on television is calling for Jackson dart, doesn't it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So Russell Wilson had a very bad game.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, let me give you statistically what he did. 17 of 37. That's under 50%. 168 yards, no touchdowns when he was under pressure. 2 of 12 for 26 yards. The coach of the Giants didn't even name him the starter yesterday. He named him the starter today. So what kind of confidence could Russell Wilson have? Russell Wilson, in fairness and in truth, the last three years, he's been on a downhill slide. All right. The Giants were supposed to be the turnaround team of the year this year. Right. And that's not going to happen. And they may turn around a quarterback. They may go to Jackson Dart, because Russell Wilson hasn't been good in three years. You know who else hasn't been good in three years? Brian Daboll. He hasn't been good in three years. He's 18, 33 and 1 overall. And in the last two years, plus he's 9 and 26.

[Mike Wilbon]

Well, there was talk about him not being there. He needs the turnaround.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Mike Wilbon]

He needs to turn around for everybody.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There's a guy and the team has no particular offense. So, I mean, it's not just Russell Wilson. Brian Daboll, I thought he saved his job last year when the owner came out about week seven and said, we're not going to make any changes.

[Mike Wilbon]

Can we just turn this around for a second? The Giants could still turn it around. Maybe the commanders are that good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Maybe they were that good last year.

[Mike Wilbon]

Jayn Daniel, how about him yesterday?

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's really good again.

[Mike Wilbon]

He just continued on his trajectory.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Mike Wilbon]

So maybe the commanders aren't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But everybody was saying the Giants were in turnaround. They don't feel like they're in turnaround after one game is played. Okay.

[Mike Wilbon]

They don't feel like, man, you've thrown day ball under the bus after week one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I did it last year. And then the other stable U.S. open.

[Mike Wilbon]

More impressive U.S. open champ Carlos Alcaraz or Irina Sabalenka.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. So I watched both matches, most of them. The Sabalenka match against Anisimova was the better match. You had the sense that either one could win that. Okay. And Anasimova.

[Mike Wilbon]

The men went four sets. You didn't think Sinner could beat him?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I did not. I did not. Not as soon as the next set started. I didn't think that Anisa Mobile was the most sympathetic figure in the entire US Open because she reversed the double bagel on W on deck. And then she came from behind against Osaka, who I know you love, and she came from behind and she did. So that was, to me, a very satisfying final. And Sabalenko is the most powerful person in women's tennis, a well deserved number one. Alcaraz and Sinner are so much better than everyone on the men's side in the last eight majors, one of them has won each eight.

[Mike Wilbon]

Major domination homes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now Alcaraz is 22 and Sinner is 24. So this could go on for six to eight years.

[Mike Wilbon]

Maybe not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And here's my problem. My problem is it's great tennis, it's powerful tennis, but it's never thrilling to me. I want you remember how Djokovic popped up when Nadal.

[Mike Wilbon]

We need that third guy. We do. Yes, I agree completely with you. I'm hoping. Can it be Felix the Canadian? Can it be Ben Shelton, who, you know, decided to turn into a free safety and killed his shoulder?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Can't be djokovic because he's 100.

[Mike Wilbon]

No, it can't be Jo.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's.

[Mike Wilbon]

That's done, right? There are. There are eight to 10 women on tour right now who can win every major and every slam.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Mike Wilbon]

But the men, I'm like you, it's great tennis, but it's. It's lacking because we don't see a real challenger out there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

To make it dramatic, they cruise almost to get to the final.

[Mike Wilbon]

Remember, Federer and Nadal did this. They won 11 straight.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's amazing.

[Mike Wilbon]

And then Joe came in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I know who you are mentioning. I just.

[Mike Wilbon]

Shelton.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't have a lot of confidence in him. I haven't seen any leap. I haven't seen any leap. Enough email. Let's take one last break. Still to come, Bill Belichick and Kalen.

[Mike Wilbon]

DeBoer get needed wins and the Bears make their debut. Under that man right there, Ben Johnson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How do you think Russell Wilson do you think he thinks this is his last day?

[Mike Wilbon]

I think he's oblivious.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You do?

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah, I do. I think he doesn't even know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really.

[Mike Wilbon]

Got a great life, great wife.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy Time People. Happy 35th Birthday. Garrett Cole, the former overall number one pick in the 2011 baseball draft by the Pittsburgh Pirates, is currently on the injured list after having Tommy John surgery. Cole signed a huge nine year, $324 million contract with the Yankees in 2019 and won the Cy Young there in 2023 when he was 154 with a 263 ERA. Last season, Cole was 8 and 5 with a 341 ERA and 17 starts. The Yankees are currently two games behind Toronto in the AL east and they are the first wild card team, but it's hard to believe their playoff position wouldn't be more secure with Cole healthy. Cole is targeting a return quote early next season.

[Mike Wilbon]

It would be better their chances if he was out there. Are they going to make it to the postseason?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah, I think they will too. Yeah, I think they will. Happy Anniversary Randall Cobb on this day 14 years ago in his NFL debut, the Green Bay packers, second round pick out of Kentucky scored two touchdowns. One of them was this 108 yard kickoff return in a 42:34 win over the New Orleans Saints in the Thursday opener. This tied the then NFL record for the longest kickoff return ever. Okay, you can question Cobb's judgment for starting this return eight yards deep in his own end zone, but it's returns like this that made the kickoff the most exciting play in football. I get it, it's a dangerous play fraught with injury implications. I'm just saying the anticipation level and excitement level were off the charts.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yes, because guys like Randall Cobb and Devin Hester were just talented enough, but also brave enough to face whatever was coming at them and it was the most exciting play in football. You're absolutely right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I hope they can get back somehow. This isn't. This is not bad. The way it works now. It's not bad. A melancholy trails to Ken Dryden. The great Canadiens goalie has died of cancer at the age of 78. You can make a case that Dryden is the most accomplished goalie of all time.

[Mike Wilbon]

He's a goat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

In just over seven NHL seasons, Dryden won six Stanley Cups, made six All Star teams, won five Besnar Trophies, the Calder Trophy as Rookie of the Year, and Akan Smythe as playoff MVP in 1971. He also wrote a great sports book, the Game. He was the color analyst alongside Al Michaels for the Miracle on Ice. He ran the Maple Leafs for seven years and he served as a Canadian cabinet minister.

[Mike Wilbon]

Everything he touched, yes, seemed to just have gold. And to me, when you mentioned just what he did as a goaltender, a lot of great goaltenders out of there, over 100 plus years of NHL. He's the goat, Ken Dryden, period.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I, I agree with that. And also melancholy trails to Davie Johnson, who died after a long illness at the age of 82. Johnson excelled as both a player and a manager. As A power hitting second baseman, he won two World Series with the Orioles. He also hit 43 home runs with the Braves, playing alongside Henry Aaron. But Johnson was best known as, as the manager who won a World series with the 86 Mets. Johnson could be abrasive, often wearing out his welcome quickly. But he finished with winning records at all five of the teams he managed.

[Mike Wilbon]

And of guys with like 1300 or more games, he's sixth all time in winning percentage. He managed two teams that are close to your heart, those Mets and the Nets. And the Nets. Did you get to know Davey Johnson?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did not. I did not. I remember him distinctly as a player. I, I thought, and I could be wrong, I thought that the 43 home runs was the most ever as a second baseman at the time. At that time, you know, that's what I thought and I was really happy to see him manage. Tom Boswell, our former colleague at the Post, makes a very compelling case to put him in the hall of Fame. Yeah, because he says that the people with higher winning percentages, the five above him, they're all in the hall of Fame and his is higher than other guys who are in the hall of Fame. They didn't manage as long.

[Mike Wilbon]

But it's heartwarming to see those photos of him with Henry Aaron.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Oh, sure. Oh, sure.

[Mike Wilbon]

For those. And that's a certain age.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's a baseball life.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Someone who stay. Someone who stays in it all the way down the road. One error today. Daniel Jones played for only two teams before the Colts. As I thought. Not three. New York and Minnesota. Wilbon blew that. Let's go to the big finish.

[Mike Wilbon]

Let's do it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Houston Texans quarterback C.J. stroud says his team was lolly gagging and it's lost to the Rams. Do you agree? No. They gotta be better.

[Mike Wilbon]

No. Bill Belichick and Kalyn DeBoer both won big. Your thoughts?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you remember lollygagging in the movie in Bull Durham?

[Mike Wilbon]

Lollygaging?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, my thoughts. About what? About those two guys. They needed to win, but these were easy opponents. Let's see what they do in the comments. Let's see. The aces have won 14 straight. The sky suspended your girl Angel Wings for half ripping her team. And Caitlin Clark is out for the entire season. What's the biggest deal?

[Mike Wilbon]

The people still playing the Aces, not the people not playing even for a half. The Dodgers blew a game, the Ooze in which Yoshinobu Yamamoto was one out away from a. No, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Your reaction? This was incredible. I watched the replay of this. It never happened before. They're up three nothing. They lose four three. A reliever comes in, walks everybody in. You lose the game. Lose the no hitter is one thing. You lose the game. Last one. Monday Night Football. The Vikings are at your Bears. How you feeling? Nervous.

[Mike Wilbon]

I want to pound this quarterback when he's a kid from Chicago, but we got to beat the Vikings. I need that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We'll see. We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornhot.

[Mike Wilbon]

I'm Mike Wilbourne. Shout out to the great John McEnroe. You can listen to him call matches anytime. You've seen the headlines, heard the debates. The three point ball has created a monotonous rhythm to the game. And others has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here? The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story didn't turn out quite the way he imagined.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history.

[Mike Wilbon]

30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.