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- [00:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Fellas, you know degree Cool Rush deodorant, right? Well, last year they changed the formula and guys were mad about it. One dude even started a petition. So guess what? Degree heard us, admitted they messed up and brought the original Cool Rush scent back exactly how it was. And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores now for under $4. So grab some and remember why its cool, crisp and fresh scent made it the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. Degree Cool Rush is back, and it smells like victory for all of us.
- [00:32]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. Tony. A new study says the key to happiness is having another person in your life.
- [00:41]
Brian Windhorst
I'm Tony Kornheiser. Oh, you're welcome, Pookie. Glad I could be there.
- [00:46]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much. It's a Hallmark card.
- [00:50]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, yeah.
- [00:52]
Mike Wilbon
Pretty soon, very warm inside your life.
- [00:57]
Brian Windhorst
No, I got you, Pookie. Sonny and Cher again. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, the Rockets trounce the Warriors. The Caps and Panthers move on. And Brian Windhorst joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the Minnesota Timberwolves eliminating the Lakers from the playoffs last night in Los Angeles, winning 103 to 96 and taking the series 4 to 1. Rudy Gobert, who had been essentially absent from this series, had a career playoff night. 27 points, 24 rebounds. Wow. Well, when you were there, why did the Lakers fall short? And what does this mean for the Timberwolves?
- [01:34]
Mike Wilbon
Well, Tony, the Lakers aren't good enough. I'm going to paraphrase because I did send a text to our dear friend Charles Barkley, who took a lot of criticism for just saying constantly, the Lakers aren't good enough. And they're not. Their roster is not good enough. And we knew that. I'm not blaming Rob Pelinka. You get Luka Doncic, and then you worry about the rest. You can't fix everything at once. And they couldn't. They don't have size. They're more than size challenged. And then, you know, J.J. redick, you know, took some calculated risks that did not work. He didn't put Jackson Hayes out there even for a minute. And that's a guy who maybe has a little bit of a rim protection element to him at 6:11 or whatever he is, and he could at least see, you know, Rudy Gobert's chin. And Rudy Gobert instead went wilt 27 and 24 for a guy averaging 3 and 6 in the series. And they Got burned by those choices, Tony. And the Lakers did not seem early in the game, they didn't seem to have a pep to their step. Luca goes down at the at halftime with a. After a hard foul and his back is bulky and he was. Luka was abused defensively more than any alleged great player, MVP type player you can imagine. Sixteen times he was a primary defender and nine times the Minnesota Timberwolves just blew by him. Not beat him, but blew by him as if he was you or me. And Luka Doncic is a one way player. He's a great one way player. He's a magician on that one end, but he doesn't play the other end. And the Minnesota Timberwolves said have some of this and they did. Even though they were 7 for 47 on three pointers and their best player, Ant man, was barely there in terms of scoring. So a lot happened, Tony, none of it good for the Lakers.
- [03:16]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, I like the phrasing of the question, why did they come up short? They came up short because they are short, physically short. LeBron James plays center for them much of the time. I think back to that trade that they negated a couple of months ago from Mark Williams, right, in Charlotte, who's 7ft tall, who could have helped them. And I still wonder why they negated that. Look, I mean, I understand there was optimism around the Lakers at the beginning of the series. They had come in third. They seemed, with Luka and LeBron, to have just great enthusiasm for what was going on. And then they lose four out of five games. They lose to a team that traded away its number one big man, Karl Anthony Towns. My God, I didn't expect the Lakers to win the championship. I expected them to be more competitive in this particular series. More competitive than going out meekly the way that they went out. But I guess that's because they had an upheaval when they got Luka, you know, halfway through, a little more than halfway through the season. And they've got a rookie coach. I think they come back probably better next year in terms of Minnesota just very quickly. They were in a conference final last year. They're a good team. I didn't like the trade they made, but this is not a surprise. And now you get to see if your boy Ant man is ready for his close up.
- [04:39]
Mike Wilbon
You get to see it's not Tony, it's not an upset. Minnesota's a better team, a more fully formed team, a more experienced team that had gone deeper last year. And they do have a star in Ant man, even though he didn't have to be a star last night, they gave it to the Lakers. They gave it to him in every way imaginable. Last night's game between the Dubs and Rockets wasn't much of one. The Rockets led by 30 in the first first half and Steve Kerr benched his starters midway through the third. The series now heads back to San Francisco with the warriors leading three games to two. Game six, tomorrow night. Tone, did last night's lopsided result change how you're seeing this series or feel like just a one off?
- [05:20]
Brian Windhorst
Let me just be very clear about this. For the Golden State warriors, the only thing that matters in this series is game six at home. That's it. Last night didn't matter. There was no jeopardy for them to lose that game. And they played knowing there was no jeopardy. Their starters scored 40 points. Mike, that is the lowest total for five starters in the history of the NBA playoffs. I bet you never thought that Steph Curry would be in the history books for something like that. Curry had 13 points, Jimmy Butler had eight. They were six of 22 from the floor. And if they win game six, none of that matters. Absolutely none of that matters. And I mean, that's the way they were in this position a few years ago against Memphis, they were up three to one. They go to Memphis for game five, they lose by 39 points. They're down 55 at some point, doesn't matter. They go back home, they win. They win the series, they win the championship. Look, this is a very veteran team. They know where they stand. They know all that matters is winning game six.
- [06:24]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, I think I believe what you believe. I do. I think I believe that. And the calm with which particularly Steph and Jimmy went about talking about the post mortem, it helps convince me of that. But, Tony, sports are weird. And sometimes you get young guys. Houston's not ready yet. That's been my position. Houston, Detroit's a little closer to ready. Houston, not yet. And they're, they're both coming, all right, but they're not there yet. And Jimmy Butler expressed the same way you did. And he had such calm about him, and Steph had such calm and Steve Kerr has such calm that I think I believe that. But man, these dudes are young and strong and fast and acrobatic. They, they, they fly through the air like drones. I think that the warriors, they got to six, Mike. I know, Tony, but once you give a team the worst thing you can give a young team, that's not Ready yet is a dose of confidence. And they have a little bit of that now. Again, I'm not picking Houston. The warriors thing is maybe more complicated than you think it is.
- [07:31]
Brian Windhorst
The warriors have earned your trust on this one thing. If they say they are unconcerned, I believe them. Doesn't mean they're going to win, but they know that this is the game they have to win. Let's move to hockey. Both the Washington Capitals and the Florida Panthers won their first round playoff series last night. The Capitals took out Montreal in five games, beating the Canadiens 4 to 1. Last night in Washington, the defending Stanley cup champion Panthers took out interstate rival Tampa Bay in five games as well, going on the road, beating Lightning 6 3. Well, Vaughn, which team looks more impressive right now?
- [08:08]
Mike Wilbon
Tony? Probably probably Florida. And just for this reason, to go on the road and win that kind of way, that's what champions do. Oh, wait, they're defending champions. Look, I know a lot of this season has been justifiably about Alexander Ovechkin and his chase down of Wayne Gretzky for a record that we thought was, you know, unreachable. But Matthew Tkachuk, I mean, my goodness, this guy is becoming legendary. Now. He missed 25 games and at the end of the season, his team went 7, 10 and 1 and they didn't look ready for any of this. And now here they are and. And they seem like they will follow him to hell in a gasoline suit. So I gotta say, the defending champs, like in any sport, I'm gonna give my nod to the defending champs until I see otherwise.
- [08:53]
Brian Windhorst
Okay, so you said yesterday that I was a homer. I was asked to pick a game last night. I picked Washington over Montreal, which happened. And you looked in the camera and you declared me a homer. So what I'm gonna say now might surprise you a little bit because I also think that it is the Florida Panthers right now that are more impressive because they have Tkachuk back, because they made that trade for Brad Marchand. You know, I mean, I think. Right. Look, Montreal was the last team to qualify for the playoffs in the East. They had the least amount of points in the East. So when Washington beats them, beating a 1, beating an 8 is not that big a deal. Tampa Bay is much better team than Montreal. Tampa Bay finished third in the East. Tampa Bay had the best goal differential in East. Tampa Bay is better than Florida and Florida drilled them. Okay, Florida looks really good now. Florida was plus seven in goals in that series and Washington was only plus six. I root for the Capitals, you know that. But right now it smells like Florida is sniffing the finish line like they've done before. Let's take a break. Coming up, we've got some follow up questions about where the Lakers go from here to our great friend Brian Windhorst.
- [10:05]
Mike Wilbon
We're also going to ask him whether the Bucks could really trade Giannis.
- [10:11]
Brian Windhorst
See, I mean, you got the cap.
- [10:14]
Mike Wilbon
Series.
- [10:17]
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- [12:02]
Brian Windhorst
Let's get back into the future of the Lakers with our great friend ESPN senior NBA writer and the host of the Hoop Collective podcast, Mr. Bryan Windhorst. Brian, most people seem to agree that the Lakers have a size problem. They don't have enough size. Is this their biggest problem? And if it is, how do they go about fixing it?
- [12:23]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, it's their biggest problem. And they've got a couple of problems. And you know, I actually think where the Lakers are right now is reminiscent of where the Dallas Mavericks were two years ago. That was the year they traded for Kyrie Irving. Remember the big, just the big midseason trade. They didn't have size, they didn't have perimeter defense and they missed the playoffs. So they went out and drafted Derrick Lively who became a rim protecting lob threat. They went out and signed Derrick Jones Jr. A wing athlete, wing defender, and then later on that year they acquired Daniel Gafford and P.J. washington. These are not star players, but they were exactly the type of players Luka needed along with Kyrie. They all fit together. Bam. They make a run to the finals. This is the kind of makeover the Lakers need. They don't need to retrofit the entire roster. They have their star players, but they definitely need size. Specifically a rim protector and a guy who can be a lob threat for Luka. They need to go out there and do that. They have one first round pick, four different pick swaps that they can trade. They have three or four expiring contracts. And depending on what LeBron wants to do with his deal, they might even be able to dip into free agency for a little bit. So let's see where they are on September 1st. And they may end up having built out this team, but this team is deeply flawed and we saw that over the last two weeks.
- [13:40]
Mike Wilbon
Brian, you uttered the phrase that will transition us to the next question depending on what LeBron wants to do. And it was interesting sitting in there last night and listening to him. I thought he gave just a very genuine, real answer to sort of what he's going to do, which is essentially I don't know, but much more in depth than that and I thought revealing. I do not see LeBron retiring after this season. Is there any way you who know him much better, much longer, do you see anything different?
- [14:15]
Tony Kornheiser
I think he will continue to play. I don't know he'll continue to play, but I do think he likes where this Lakers team is and he loves being a Los Angeles Laker for better or worse. And so he has an opt out in his contract that he's got to decide on by June. By late June, I would expect him to opt out and re examine what he wants to do. He's been doing this for the last couple of years. He's got a no trade clause. He certainly would want to keep that and he certainly could talk to the Lakers Last year he offered to take less money. He said, if you can sign these three or four players, I'll take less. If he is willing to offer that again, the Lakers could potentially add even another piece. Last year they weren't able to do it. This year they might be able to. People want to play in la. People are going to want to play alongside Luka. The one thing I think you will see, based on what Rob Pelinka said today, Austin Reaves will be a Laker next year. There is some belief that that's a guy they could trade. I don't think they're thinking of that at all. They like the way Austin, luka, Doncic and LeBron fit together. And I think you're going to see those three guys for sure. Everybody else on the roster, except for maybe Bronny James is probably up in the air.
- [15:21]
Mike Wilbon
All right, we'll stay with the Lakers because we got to get to the JJ Redick of it all. He's coming under some fire. He's catching some heat right now for game four not subbing in the second half, and then game five for not doing anything to stop Rudy Gobert from turning into wilt with 27 and 24. Brian, where are you on this? I know this morning on Getup you were critical and said he was immature at times in his approach. Let's elaborate. What did you mean?
- [15:51]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I don't like saying it because we all have a personal relationship with JJ and I have such an immense respect for him and I think he's done a really good job this year. When you are a first year head coach, you make mistakes and I don't know whether J.J. would say that today or he's going to say that in five years. By the way, go to any coach who's had success and you ask them about their first year, they're probably going to close their eyes and go, man, I wish I wouldn't have done that. And I suspect that JJ is going to say that about the way he operated in this series. I think at times J.J. seethes. I think he's really smart. I think he's been great for the Lakers, but I think it's sometimes he seethes and that puts him in a bad position. And I think he was seething the last few days. I think he made a mistake with how he played those older guys on short rest that many minutes in game four, he, instead of recognizing it, he just doubled down, was almost defiant about it in between games four and five and he was still seething. Coming into the game last night, as he demonstrated in the pregame press conference, I wasn't in the locker room. I don't know how he related to the team, but the Lakers were not ready to play to start that game. They did not come out like a team desperate. And regardless of what you think about the question, whether you think the question he got, where he stomped out of the press conference was fair or not, that doesn't matter. A coach handles their business. They handle the situation. I think JJ would agree that he needed to handle that better. And I just don't think he was as good as he can be. And I expect in the future that he will be much better. And you always know that. You know that when you hire a coach who young and never done it before, that you're going to go through with this. And the Lakers did. And I think JJ will eventually be even better than he was this year.
- [17:35]
Brian Windhorst
We will get you out of here on this, and I'll make it easy because it won't be about the Lakers. It'll be about Giannis Antetokounmpo. What are the chances that Milwaukee actually deals him?
- [17:50]
Tony Kornheiser
On one hand, Tony Kareem Abdul Jabbar left in 1975. They traded him in 1975. They didn't get back to the finals until 20, 21 generations. So to let a player like this go is brutal for an organization. But you look at what the Bucs have, where they're going, and you know how expensive they are and their stuff that they've traded, I don't see a viable way forward in the short term that they can create a championship roster around him. He may disagree with me and he may say, yes, we can and I'm going to stay here. And if he does that, it'll be amazing. But I think it might be best for the team and for Giannis to look for a trade. I don't know for sure that's the way it's going to go, but if you really analyze the situation, I think most people would arrive at that conclusion. And that question, that potential mystery, is the biggest thing hanging over the NBA offseason. A lot of business is going to be on hold, including other star players potentially on the trade market, until that gets answered. And if it does get answered, then where would Giannis want to go? Because he's going to have control of this thing.
- [18:58]
Brian Windhorst
Wow. Thank you, Brian. Love to hear that stuff.
- [19:01]
Mike Wilbon
Brian.
- [19:01]
Brian Windhorst
Fun.
- [19:02]
Mike Wilbon
Appreciate it.
- [19:04]
Brian Windhorst
Let's take one last break. Still to come, Aaron Judge caps off an extraordinary April wait for some of.
- [19:10]
Mike Wilbon
These numbers and will the Pistons even up that series with the Knickerbockers tonight? Tom Tony's on edge.
- [19:18]
Brian Windhorst
Not on edge. Not even slightly on edge because it's.
- [19:21]
Mike Wilbon
Not a Washington team.
- [19:24]
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- [19:55]
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- [20:40]
Brian Windhorst
Happy time people. Happy 65th birthday. Steve Cawthon we do this in honor of the Kentucky Derby, which is Saturday and where Cawthon, just days after turning 18, Rode affirmed to the Derby win, then followed that with wins in the Preakness Stakes and the Belmont Stakes for the triple crown in 1978. Cawthon was the youngest jockey ever to win the Triple Crown and the only jockey ever to be named Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year. Cawthon was born and raised in Kentucky, then moved to England and raced in Europe in his late 20s and 30s. Cawthon is back in Kentucky as a race manager at a horse farm. He remains a singular sensation in the sport of kings, which almost nobody pays attention to outside of the Triple Crown.
- [21:22]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, you know I'm not a big horse guy, but we are not a better culture to have horse racing and boxing diminished as they are. We're not. The whole world doesn't need to be turned over to the NFL and NBA 247 and that's part of the thing. But come on now. Horse racing and boxing were so enormous. Enormous, enormous worldwide. And now it's a whisper that makes me sad.
- [21:48]
Brian Windhorst
Happy Anniversary, Rex Chapman on this day 28 years ago, the Suns guard took an arcing inbounds lob pass from Jason Kidd and drilled a Pirouette three pointer with under two seconds left to send game four against the Sonics into overtime. Had Seattle lost this series, the reputation as playoff underachievers would have been set. Having already lost as a one seed to number eight Denver and Dikembe Mutombo three years before. But Seattle won this game in overtime, won the series in five games. We covered Rex Chapman when he was on the Washington Bullets and liked him well on. You've told me you've run into Rex here and there.
- [22:21]
Mike Wilbon
Not here and there. All the time. All the time. In Arizona you run into Rex maybe at the arena, maybe at the golf course, maybe at the gas station. He's one of those people you love. Running into. Rex Chapman I can stay and talk to all the time. Gary Payton and Shaun Kemp on that team. Three of my favorite players to watch. Rex, glove Shaun Kemp. The Rain man ever in the NBA. So entertaining.
- [22:45]
Brian Windhorst
Happy trails to an amazing April for Aaron Judge. The reigning ALMVP had three hits and three RBI yesterday to close out the month. He entered May leading the majors in hitting with an average of.427. Tied for the league leading home runs with 10 and RBI with 32. In fact, as CBS Sports points out, he leads baseball and batting average by 71 points on base percentage by 50 points, slugging percentage by 104 points and OPS by 154 points. And that was only Judge's fourth best month in the last calendar year. Remember last April, Judge hit only.200, leaving many people ask what was wrong. Whoops.
- [23:25]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, you can discuss Judge now with the all time Yankees, can't you? I mean the all time, all time Yankees. The guys in Monument Park.
- [23:33]
Brian Windhorst
That's.
- [23:33]
Mike Wilbon
That's fair now, right?
- [23:35]
Brian Windhorst
Yes, absolutely. One omission. Tyrese Halliburton's father John will stay away from all Pacer games, home and away, for the foreseeable future.
- [23:43]
Mike Wilbon
It's deserved. It's deserved.
- [23:45]
Brian Windhorst
Let's go to the big finish quickly if we could. Wilburn, your Cubs hit three home runs while Paul Skeen's in the fifth this afternoon. You're excited, aren't you?
- [23:52]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah. Yes, I am. Toughest schedule in baseball, but in first place won the game 8 and 3. Beat Skeens. I am thrilled the Rockies snapped their eight game losing streak yesterday. Does that matter?
- [24:05]
Brian Windhorst
Not unless they put together a bunch of wins. It doesn't. Dyson Daniels was named the NBA's most improved player. Good choice. Yeah.
- [24:12]
Mike Wilbon
He beat out Big Zoo and Kay Cunningham. He let legend steals. Got that Great Barrier Reef thief nickname. Yeah, good choice. Will the Oilers close out the Kings in Edmonton tonight?
- [24:24]
Brian Windhorst
I'm still reeling for your homerism. About the Cubs. I'm reeling for that. Yes, they'll close them out tonight. They should close them out. Last one. Knicks, Pistons, Nuggets, Clippers tonight. Who you got?
- [24:35]
Mike Wilbon
I got a seat to one and a clicker for the other Big ball night. And yes, I'm a homer. See, I admitted you don't.
- [24:41]
Brian Windhorst
Who do you have? Answer the question. Who do you have in the basketball?
- [24:47]
Mike Wilbon
I got the Pistons for forcing a game seven. How about that? And the Clippers winning at home too.
- [24:54]
Brian Windhorst
We're out of time. Try and do better the next time. Tracy Callahan, as always, thank you.
- [24:59]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, Knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the app or Apple podcast.
- [25:05]
Commercial Speaker
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