Did Thibodeau Deserve to be Fired?

Summary

PTI Episode Summary: "Did Thibodeau Deserve to be Fired?"
Release Date: June 3, 2025
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser, Frank Isola (Guest Co-Host)

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1. Introduction

In this episode of PTI (Pardon the Interruption), Tony Kornheiser takes on the role of host in the absence of Michael Wilbon. Joining him is Frank Isola, the co-host of ESPN's "The Starting Lineup" on SiriusXM. The episode delves into the unexpected firing of Tom Thibodeau as the head coach of the New York Knicks, sparking a heated debate about the decision's validity and implications for the team’s future.

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2. The Firing of Tom Thibodeau

[01:10] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony opens the discussion by highlighting the surprising nature of Tom Thibodeau's dismissal. Thibodeau had led the Knicks to the playoffs in four of his five seasons, including a notable Eastern Conference finals appearance against Indiana. Under his leadership, the team achieved back-to-back 50-win seasons for the first time since the 1990s.

[01:36] Frank Isola:
Frank expresses skepticism about the decision, stating, “It feels to me like it's a bit of a witch hunt. They wanted Tom Thibodeau out for a long time... But the Knicks are going to go back to doing what they know best, which is losing basketball.” He criticizes the Knicks' ownership, suggesting that despite recent successes, the organization remains committed to instability.

[02:31] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony counters by acknowledging Thibodeau's effective coaching, noting his composed demeanor on the sidelines and absence of visible team rebellion. He raises critical questions: “Who are the Knicks chasing? Are they chasing a player or a coach who is running the Knicks? Is it the owner or the general manager?” Tony emphasizes Thibodeau's accomplishments, such as winning 17 playoff games compared to other prominent coaches.

[03:28] Frank Isola:
Frank delves deeper into the internal dynamics, pointing out that Leon Rose, the team's president and former agent of Thibodeau, likely supports Thibodeau. He shifts focus to the ownership, suggesting that higher management decisions may have driven the firing. Frank also references other teams' coaching challenges to illustrate the Knicks' unique approach to management: “This is just the way the Knicks do business. None of it is ever make sense.”

[04:32] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony questions whether the Knicks have a successor in mind or if the firing is purely an attempt to oust Thibodeau: “Is there someone they have in mind to coach this team or did they just want to get rid of Thibodeau?”

[04:43] Frank Isola:
Frank speculates on potential replacements, mentioning names like Jay Wright and Jason Kidd, though he expresses uncertainty about how such moves would materialize. He concludes that the firing, occurring within a short timeframe, is characteristic of the Knicks' often inexplicable business decisions.

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3. Transition to Football: Jaden Daniels' Promising Future

[05:14] Tony Kornheiser:
Shifting gears to football, Tony discusses Washington's quarterback Jaden Daniels, who was named Rookie of the Year last season. Daniels' offensive coordinator, Cliff Kingsbury, has high expectations for him, anticipating significant improvement.

[05:35] Frank Isola:
Frank agrees, praising Daniels' physical development and leadership qualities. He highlights Washington's strategic acquisitions, such as drafting Laramie Tunsil and Deebo Samuel, which bolster the team's offensive capabilities. Frank emphasizes the critical role of the quarterback in football, asserting confidence in Daniels' durability and performance.

[06:23] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony underscores Daniels' impressive statistics from the previous season, noting his completion rate and touchdown-to-interception ratio. He believes that maintaining or slightly improving his performance will satisfy stakeholders and keep the team in contention for prime-time television slots.

[07:26] Frank Isola:
Frank cites a standout game where Daniels went 21 of 23, demonstrating his high efficiency and decision-making under pressure. He commends Daniels' confidence and the organization's strong belief in his potential, foreseeing a bright future for both the quarterback and the team.

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4. Baseball Spotlight: Cal Raleigh's Historic Performance

[07:28] Tony Kornheiser:
Transitioning to baseball, Tony highlights Mariners catcher Cal Raleigh's exceptional season. Tied with Shohei Ohtani for the league lead in home runs with 23, Raleigh is breaking records for catchers, a position seldom associated with high home run totals.

[09:10] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony draws comparisons to legendary catchers like Mike Piazza and Johnny Bench, acknowledging Raleigh's impressive achievements while cautioning against prematurely equating him with superstars like Ohtani and Aaron Judge. He notes Raleigh's commitment to both hitting and defensive responsibilities, emphasizing the rarity of his dual-impact performance.

[10:42] Frank Isola:
Frank adds depth by discussing Raleigh's consistency and rapid progression, mentioning his switch-hitting prowess and improved batting average. He situates Raleigh within the broader context of Seattle's storied baseball history, positioning him alongside icons like Ken Griffey Jr. and Ichiro Suzuki for his current accomplishments.

[11:54] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony urges viewers to monitor Raleigh's performance throughout the season, acknowledging his impressive start but reminding them that maintaining such a level over time is challenging, especially given the physical demands of the catcher position.

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5. Toss-Ups: Player Effectiveness and Disruptive Duos

A. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander vs. Tyrese Haliburton

[14:51] Frank Isola:
Frank poses a toss-up question comparing point guards Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA) and Tyrese Haliburton, asking which has been more effective.

[14:58] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony favors Haliburton, citing his game-winning shots and the measurable impact on the Indiana team’s performance when Haliburton is active on the court.

[15:34] Frank Isola:
Frank advocates for SGA, highlighting his high scoring averages and consistent performance throughout the season. He points to SGA's significant contributions in both regular and playoff games, asserting his case for SGA's superior effectiveness.

Result:
The debate remains open, showcasing both players' substantial impacts on their respective teams.

B. Connor McDavid & Leon Draisaitl vs. Brad Marchand & Matthew Tkachuk

[16:34] Frank Isola:
Frank introduces another toss-up, this time between two dynamic duos in the NHL: Connor McDavid & Leon Draisaitl versus Brad Marchand & Matthew Tkachuk.

[16:42] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony selects Marchand and Tkachuk as the more disruptive pair due to their physical style of play and ability to influence the game’s intensity. He contrasts their approach with McDavid and Draisaitl's focus on scoring and skill.

[17:21] Frank Isola:
Frank counters by emphasizing the offensive dominance of McDavid and Draisaitl, outlining their consistent high performance and the resulting success of their team, the Edmonton Oilers. He questions the effectiveness of the disruptive strategy against such high-caliber players.

Result:
The comparison highlights differing styles and strategic impacts, with no definitive winner declared.

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6. Special Mentions and Highlights

A. Rafael Nadal's 39th Birthday and Retirement
[20:37] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony celebrates Rafael Nadal’s 39th birthday, acknowledging his unparalleled success at the French Open with 14 titles and his impressive overall Grand Slam record. He notes Nadal's versatility, having won major titles on various surfaces, and his significance alongside tennis legends Federer and Djokovic.

[21:19] Frank Isola:
Frank reminisces about Nadal's rivalry with Federer, particularly their matches on clay and Wimbledon, affirming Nadal's edge over Federer in head-to-head encounters.

B. Nolan Ryan's 36th Career Anniversary
[21:35] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony commemorates Nolan Ryan's 36th career milestone, highlighting Ryan's remarkable pitching records, including seven no-hitters and a staggering 5,714 strikeouts. He reflects on Ryan's legacy despite playing for mostly average teams and his enduring impact on baseball history.

[22:26] Frank Isola:
Frank shares personal anecdotes about meeting Jim Marshall, a legendary Vikings player, reflecting on Ryan's remarkable career statistics and contemplating hypothetical scenarios involving other great pitchers like Tom Seaver.

C. Oklahoma Softball's Championship Bid
[22:42] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony reports on Oklahoma Softball's narrow loss in the semifinals, highlighting standout moments such as Abigail Dayton's critical two-run homer that tied the game. He underscores the rarity of Oklahoma not advancing to the championship series since 2018.

[23:28] Frank Isola:
Frank contextualizes Oklahoma's dominance in softball, comparing their streak to collegiate basketball dynasties like the UCLA Bruins under John Wooden, emphasizing their near-decade-long supremacy.

D. Minnesota Vikings Legend Jim Marshall's Passing
[23:45] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony announces the passing of Jim Marshall, a notable Minnesota Vikings defensive end from the '60s and '70s. He recounts Marshall's dedication, including his record for consecutive games played and a memorable fumble incident that entered NFL lore.

[24:19] Frank Isola:
Frank shares his personal connection to Jim Marshall, recalling memories of Wright and his admiration for Marshall’s character and contributions to the Vikings.

E. Additional Sports Highlights
[24:32] Tony Kornheiser:
Tony briefly touches on various sports updates, including the Rockies' recent win streak, Mike Trout's performance post-return, and young athletes like Mason Howell making headlines in golf and soccer.

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7. Conclusion

[25:38] Tony Kornheiser:
As the episode wraps up, Tony humorously acknowledges the time constraints, encouraging listeners to anticipate more in-depth discussions in future episodes.

[25:44] Frank Isola:
Frank signs off by directing listeners to access the PTI podcast on ESPN's platforms.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Frank Isola [01:36]:
  “It feels to me like it's a bit of a witch hunt. They wanted Tom Thibodeau out for a long time... But the Knicks are going to go back to doing what they know best, which is losing basketball.”

• Tony Kornheiser [02:31]:
  “Who are the Knicks chasing? Are they chasing a player or a coach who is running the Knicks? Is it the owner or the general manager?”

• Frank Isola [05:35]:
  “You got to be so lucky to get this guy. I don't think he's going to have a C.J. Stroud kind of second year where you take a bit of a step back. I think he's that good.”

• Tony Kornheiser [10:42]:
  “It is hard to hit a lot of home runs and catch every day. You can't do it.”

• Frank Isola [16:42]:
  “Brad Marchand and Matthew Tkachuk are more disruptive because they're so physical. They hit you, they get in fights.”

• Tony Kornheiser [21:35]:
  “Nolan Ryan pitched for mostly average teams. That did not give him a lot of run support, which is reflected in his career record of 324 and 292.”

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Key Insights and Conclusions

• Tom Thibodeau's Firing:
  The decision to fire Thibodeau appears to be fueled by long-standing frustrations within the Knicks' ownership rather than immediate performance metrics. Despite recent successes, internal politics and organizational instability seem to override on-court achievements.

• Jaden Daniels' Potential:
  Washington's investment in Jaden Daniels is paying dividends, with expectations set high for his continued improvement and leadership. His performance is crucial to the team's success, positioning him as a pivotal figure in their future endeavors.

• Cal Raleigh's Historic Season:
  Cal Raleigh is redefining the catcher position with his impressive home run tally, drawing comparisons to baseball legends. While early in the season, his trajectory suggests a potential breakout candidate deserving of greater recognition.

• Player Comparisons and Effectiveness:
  The toss-up segments highlight the nuanced debates surrounding player effectiveness and team dynamics, underscoring the subjective nature of assessing sports performance across different positions and disciplines.

• Legacy and Milestones:
  Celebrations of sporting legends like Rafael Nadal and Nolan Ryan serve as reminders of enduring legacies and the impact of individual excellence on their respective sports.

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This episode of PTI offers a comprehensive examination of significant sports developments, blending deep analysis with engaging debates. By focusing on Tom Thibodeau's controversial dismissal and extending into various other sports highlights, Tony Kornheiser and Frank Isola provide listeners with a multifaceted perspective on current athletic narratives.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Close your eyes.

[Frank Isola]

Exhale.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Frank Isola]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

In time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe.

[Frank Isola]

Oh, sorry.

[Michael Wilbon]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The discount they gave me on my first order.

[Frank Isola]

Oh, sorry.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Namaste.

[Michael Wilbon]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[Frank Isola]

Pardon the interruption, but I'm Frank Isola. Hey, Tony. Scientists now say Jupiter was once twice as big as it is today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tony Kornheiser. Wow. And I thought Uranus was gassy. I'm so glad Wilbon's not here because Wilbon would ruin the joke and go, ah, ah, ah, ah. And he'd ruin it and it's a good joke. You got it right. It's a good joke.

[Frank Isola]

I walk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Yeah, it's all right. Wilbon has a day off, as I said. So I'm pleased to be joined. Great friend and the co host of the starting lineup on SiriusXM, Mr. Frank Isola. Oh my God.

[Frank Isola]

Not bad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And we lead today with a big surprise in the NBA. The Knicks fired head coach Tom Thibodeau. Tibbs led the Knicks to the playoffs in four of his five seasons at the helm, most recently bowing out to Indiana in the Eastern Conference finals on Saturday. The team just won 50 games in consecutive seasons for the first time since the 90s. Frank, does this move make sense to you?

[Frank Isola]

Well, it doesn't make any sense except if you cover the Knicks for a long time like I did. I always tell people, remove logic and reason from anything that happens, especially over the last 20 years under the current ownership group here, Tom Thibodeau and The Knicks won 10 playoff games. Tony. In the previous 18 years, they won seven. That's seven playoff wins over 18 years. And they kept moving the goalposts. It was, you have to beat Detroit, all right? You better be competitive against Boston. They beat Boston, then they lose to Indiana. Everyone's treating Indiana like that's some also ran team. They were really good since January 1st. So it feels to me like it's a bit of a witch hunt. They wanted Tom Thibodeau out for a long time, whether that's Jim Dolan, whether that's management. But the Knicks are going to go back to doing what they know best, which is losing basketball. When they finally had some Stability and continuity and some winning. Clearly couldn't handle prosperity.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I found out about this. I got a phone call about two hours ago and. I mean, your jaw drops. What? What are you talking about? They just had a really good year. The best year than they've had in a long time. And Thibodeau was part of it. Now, I will tell you that I would watch these playoff games and I would see him on the sideline standing absolutely still with a pained expression on his face. And I figured he had ulcer problems. But I never got the sense that he didn't have control of the team. And I never got the sense that there was rebellion. Maybe there was. I'm going to ask you the questions that a sports writer would ask in this thing, which is, who are the Knicks chasing? Are they chasing a player and they had to make this change? Are they chasing a coach who is running the Knicks? Is it the owner in this case, or is it the general manager? And what is the aim here? Because Thibodeau did a good job by any objective measure.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, they're all great questions. And you know, Leon Rose is the president. Leon was once Tom Thibodeau's agent. He's a team president. He was once his agent. There's no way, I can't imagine that Leon Rose wants Tom Thibodeau out. Jalen Brunson said right after they lost Indiana that he had his full support. So that leads me to the owner. Someone got to the owner. You know, the one thing about the Knicks, you know, you get these celebrities that show up at games and they pay crazy tickets. They want to hug the players after games. The Knicks get caught up in all the hoopla. They never get down to the nitty gritty of what it takes to win. Think about this, Tony. Minnesota has now lost back to back years in the Western Conference finals. Is Chris Finch in trouble? Rick Carlile lost. Got swept last year in the conference finals. Blew a Game one. Keep that in mind. Blew a Game one. Was Rick Carlisle in trouble? This is just the way the Knicks do business. How about these numbers? The last two years, Tom Thibodeau has won 17 playoff games. Steve Kerrs won five. Ty lose one five. Eric Speltzer is one one. There is no perfect coach out there. He did a good job, but for some reason, for them, it wasn't good enough.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'll get you out of here on this. And it's the question anybody would ask to someone who knows about this. Is there someone they have in mind to coach this team or did they just want to get rid of Thibodeau?

[Frank Isola]

I think right now, I don't think there's somebody that they have in mind. But you know what? Round up the usual suspects. What about Jay Wright, who coached a bunch of the players at Villanova? I've been hearing Jason Kidd's name. I don't know how they're going to get him out of Dallas, but there must be somebody out there now. I just think they're. This all transpired in the last 48 hours, but it is. It's shocking in a lot of ways, but it's typical of the way the Knicks do business. None of it is ever make sense. They finally had some stability and continuity and it's not good enough for them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, we have a show to do. We move now to football because Wilbourne took the day off. So we don't have to talk solely about the NBA other than Thibodeau. Washington quarterback Jaden Daniels was rookie of the year last year. His offensive coordinator, Cliff Kingsbury, said recently that he expects Daniels, quote, to take a big jump, unquote, this season. Frank, do you.

[Frank Isola]

I really do. And it's funny, we're talking about these organizations and you know this organization as well as anybody, and they changed ownership and you think about the way things have changed there. They got the right coach in, but we know how it works in football. You gotta get the quarterback. And Jaden Daniels, first of all, they say he's bulked up. And that was the one thing that I always worried about. You look at him, he's slight. He has all the tools. He's smart. You know, he's committed to winning. He's a leader. Everything is there for them. That's my biggest issue. Is he going to be durable enough? And you look at what Washington did. They went out and got Laramie Tunsil All Pro tackle Deebo Samuel. So they've added weapons. They drafted a tackle, they drafted another receiver. They're doing all the right things, but you know this. That's the most important position in sports. And they got the right guy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I'm not going to go into all the history here about why they like this guy and why they would have drafted him over Caleb Williams anyway, though Caleb Williams was. Went to high school in Washington, D.C. yeah, he was slight. He still is pretty slight. Everybody worries about Robert Griffin because Daniels likes to run. Griffin liked to run. He was slight. It ended his career. Okay. And Daniels ran last year. Daniels ran 148 times last year, 891 yards and six touchdowns. There is some sense he got hit, but he never got hurt enough to miss a game. There is some sense that he is bulking up a little bit though in the pictures that you see. Let's not make him into Arnold Schwarzenegger because he's not, he's not that big. So let's understand something that he exceeded. Jaden Daniels exceeded even the most wild optimistic projections for him. He took that team to a 12, 5 record. That's a better record than they had in 30 plus years. He took that team to the Eastern Conference finals, which they hadn't done in. I'm sorry, I got the NBA on my mind.

[Frank Isola]

The NFC championship game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Championship game. And they hadn't done that in 30 years. He completed 69% of his passes. He had 25 touchdowns and nine interceptions. So what I'm going to say now, I believe in my heart if he just did that next year, that would be enough. People would be happy. He doesn't have to make some big jump because he was just fine last year. The Washington team is going to be in prime time television five times this year for one reason. That reason is Jaden Daniels. I mean, that's how good he was and that's how happy people are with him. Yes.

[Frank Isola]

And you know, Tony, it was a national game last year early on in the season. Remember that game against Cincinnati? He went 21 of 23 in that game. And it seemed like the entire game, it was like a 4th and 3 or 4th and 4. He kept looking at the sidelines saying we're going for it. And he just gives off that type of air about him, that much confidence. And you just can tell that everyone in the, on the team and in the organization has great belief in him. You got to be so lucky to get this guy. I don't, I don't think he's going to have a C.J. stroud kind of second year where you take a bit of a step back. I think he's that good. I think there are great things in store for this guy. All right, let's move to baseball where we've been ignoring someone, folks. Shohei Ohtani and Aaron Judge have received justifiably so much of the attention so far this season. But Mariners catcher Cal Raleigh is back on the field tonight, tied with Ohtani for the league lead with 23 homers. The man known as the Big Dumper is putting up all time hitting numbers for any catcher in baseball history, much less one who is a reigning Gold Glover. Tony how should we talk about what Raleigh is doing right now?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. The reason we talk about Ohtani and Judge is because they have a significant history of hitting a lot of home runs. Aaron Judge hit 58 home runs last year. Two years before that, he hit 62 home runs. Shohei Ohtani hit 54 home runs last year. The year before, when he was still with the angels, he hit 44. If I'm not mistaken, Raleigh had 34 last year and 30 the year before that. So let's not make him in to Ohtani and Judge just yet. It is true. It is hard to hit a lot of home runs and catch every day. You can't do it. The wear and tear on your body is such that you have to take another position every once in a while or do dh. But Mike Piazza hit a lot of home runs as a catcher. Johnny Bench hit a lot of home runs as a catcher. So did Carlton Fisk. Salvador Perez, I believe 48, of Kansas City hit 48 home runs as a catch in one season. So while Rawley should be congratulated, you know, other guys. Other guys have done this. The other thing to say, Frank, is we talk about Ohtani and we talk about Judge because they are charismatic players. If you stand anywhere near Ohtani, he's an oak tree and Judge is bigger. Judge is 6, 8 and 2, 70, something like that. They are charismatic. A player known as the Big Dumper. That is not a charismatic nickname. It's a borderline obscene nickname at this point. He's great. He's a great catcher as well. He's like, at the moment, maybe second in OPS.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Second in total bases in the American League. Second in something else, third in RBI. I mean, he's having a great year, but it's June 3rd. Come to me in September. Tell me how many home runs he has, because I know those other guys will have 50. I know that.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah. And you know what happens, too? You know, you get into late June, July and August. It's hot out. I know he plays half his games in Seattle, but that's gonna take a toll on him being a catcher and also trying to hit home runs. Yes, you mentioned the nickname. His mother. His mother also hates the nickname. But he is on pace. Did 64 home runs, and he has improved. Tony, last year, from the right side, he's a switch hitter. He batted under.200 from the right side. This year he's at.296 from the right side.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I got all these stats. I could go to my notes. They're all good. It's June 3rd. It's June 3rd. OK, it's June 3rd. A lot of guys are on.

[Frank Isola]

Hang on. He second fastest to 100 behind Alex Rodriguez, right? And he's up there. He's done things that only Ken Griffey's done. They've had great players in Seattle. Griffey, a Rod Ichiro, Edgar Martinez. This guy's doing something which not a lot of those players have done. He's in pretty select company.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he plays catcher, I'll give you that. And I'll also tell you it's June 3rd. Just come to me in a couple of months. Let's take a break. Coming up, Shay Gilgis Alexander as the mvp. But as Tyrese Halliburton been more of.

[Frank Isola]

A effective in these playoffs, you're killing the big dumper. And do the Panthers or the Oilers have the more disruptive duo toss up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Coming up next, second in total bases, second in run scored, third in rbi, third in walks. Great. It's great so far.

[Frank Isola]

It's great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's June 3rd. I mean, you got a MVP, right?

[Michael Wilbon]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Time to spank Frank from Toss up what's first?

[Frank Isola]

Toss up. Which point guard has been more effective, Shai Gilgish Alexander or Tyrese Halliburton?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm going to say Tyrese Halliburton because I've seen him make shots that win games. I mean, he did it against Milwaukee, did it against Cleveland. He did it against New York. I haven't seen the other guy do that. Now. Maybe the other guy doesn't need to do that. Maybe Oklahoma City is ahead by so much that you don't have to do it. But Haliburton, the shot goes up. The shot falls through the buzzer. Sounds like to me, that's very impressive. And also, Indiana is 70 when Halliburton scores more than 20 points in these playoffs. They're less when he doesn't. So it seems to me that as Halliburton goes, so goes Indiana.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, and that shot that he hit in Game one and then the performance in Game four. I'm still trying to figure out how he was an MVP of the Eastern Conference finals. I think you would have voted for him. I know that I would have voted for him. I'm going to go with SGA from this standpoint. Shay Gillis Alexander they won 68 games during the regular season. They've already won 12. That equals 80. I'm bad at math, but that's 80. And he's averaging 29.8 points in just about seven assists per game. And I'm going to right now the game that sticks out more than any other game four in Denver. Tony, they're down 2:1 in the series. They trail going into the fourth quarter. They lose that game. They're down 3:1. Their season might be over. He scores nine points in that quarter. Denver only scored 18 as a team. OKC goes on to win that game. They've been off and flying since then. He has been the most effective because he keeps winning and he has a chance to do something magical. Regular season mvp, maybe finals MVP as well.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Again, the other guy. Shot goes up. Shot drops. Buzzer sound. What's next?

[Frank Isola]

Toss up more disruptive twosome. Connor McDavid and Leon Drai Seidel or Brad Marchand and Matthew Tkachuk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I'm gonna play this game in a literal sense. I'm gonna concentrate on the word disruptive. And Marchand and Tkachuk are more disruptive because they're so physical. Because they hit you, because they get in fights. Marchand used to when he was in Boston lick other players faces. Draisaitl and McDavid. Don't do that. They're not about being physical. They're about scoring. At the moment, McDavid leads all playoff scorers with 26 points. Draisaitla second with 25. They make hockey beautiful. The other two guys make hockey physical. You can choose whatever you want. They are four influential players.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, I think I knew you were going to take those two. And the one thing about Tkachuk, he wants to be that guy. Almost like in the mold of Claude Lemieux. Maybe a little, you know, Theo Flory. He's better. I think he's better player than those guys. But he has a way of disrupting. But we are talking about two unbelievable players and Connor McDavid and Leon Draisatl. And you mentioned the numbers about the point total, Remember? Edmonton has won 12 of 14. Connor McDavid has had a goal and assist in 13 of those games. Draisaitl and 12 of the 14. So guess what? The game plan is to always disrupt them. How's it working out? The Oilers keep winning and those two guys have been the two best players in the playoffs thus far.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the exact matchup you want if you're the NHL. This is what you want. You want these two teams. That's it. You saw it. Frank Schrank. Let's take one last break. Still to come, Oklahoma makes a late bid to stay alive for its fifth straight softball championship.

[Frank Isola]

And Mike Trout is back to doing Mike Trout things. Who even knew he was back? Good for him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Their scoring at Edmonton is amazing. You worry, will they miss Zach Hyman because he's a physical guy? He could counteract what Tkachuk would do. You would think, at least theoretically.

[Michael Wilbon]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy time people. Happy 39th birthday Rafael Nadal. What better time to salute Nadal than during the French Open? Nadal won this tournament 14 times. Nadal's overall record on the red clay at Roland Garros is an astonishing 112 and 4. Lest you think Nadal was a one trick clay court pony, he also won Wimbledon twice, the Australian Open twice, the US Open four times. Although Nadal is grouped with Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic, we associate Nadal more with Federer. Federer retired three years ago. Nadal is in his first year of full retirement. These two are like LeBron James and Steph Curry. Without them, there's a void at the top.

[Frank Isola]

When you think of Roland Garros, you always think of Rafael Nadal and I was always a Federer guy, but Nadal against Federer on the clay, 60 at Roland Garros and he beat him at Wimbledon. So that puts Nadal just a little bit ahead of Roger, unfortunately.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy anniversary, Nolan Ryan. On this day 36 years ago, the great fireballer pitched his 11th one hitter, striking out 11 as Texas beat Seattle. It was Ryan's 16th game, giving up either no hits or one hit, breaking Bob Feller's record of 15. Ultimately, Ryan would park that record at 19. Ryan pitched the most no hitters, 7. He is tied with Feller for the most one hitters, 12. Ryan has the most two hitters, 18. The most three hitters, 31. Ryan has the most strikeouts, 5,714. Ryan pitched for mostly average teams. That did not give him a lot of run support, which is reflected in his career record of 324 and 292. His 292 losses are third all time. The most wins and the most losses belong to Cy Young.

[Frank Isola]

I'm always reminded whenever you hear about Nolan Ryan, you mentioned the numbers and the 5,700 strikeouts are ridiculous. That he once was on the same pitching staff in New York with Tom Seaver. Imagine what could have been with Seaver and Nolan ryan together for 10 or 15 years.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, well, Ryan. Ryan was just a kid at that point. Happy trails. Oklahoma softball. The Sooners bid for their fifth straight national title ended in the semifinals last night, but not without late drama. Texas Tech ace and reigning player of the year Nijerie Kennedy was one strike away from eliminating the champs when nine hole hitter Abigail Dayton hit an improbable two run homer to tie the game. It was only Dayton's third homer of the season and what a spot for it. But Texas Tech bounced back in the bottom half of the inning to win on a sac fly 3 2. It's the first time since 2018 that the Sooners won't be playing in the championship series. Oklahoma first baseman Sidney Sanders called it, quote, a very cinematic way to go.

[Frank Isola]

Out, you know, in the era of nil and the transfer portal. Let's think about what a dynasty Oklahoma softball has been. They won four in a row. They had won six of eight. That's like, you know, the UCLA Bruins under John Wooden. That's how dominant they've been recently.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And the melancholy trails to Jim Marshall. The standout Minnesota Vikings defensive end of the 60s and 70s passed away today at the age of 87. Marshall was a 14 year captain in Minnesota and a key member of the Purple People leaders alongside hall of Famers Alan Page and Carl Eller. He set a then record for consecutive games played at 282. And he went down in NFL lore for picking up a fumble in a 1964 game and accidentally returning the wrong way for what he thought to be a Vikings touchdown, but was actually a 49ers safety.

[Frank Isola]

I got a chance to meet Jim Marshall. He was a lovely guy growing up here. Maybe because both teams here were terrible. I actually was, believe it or not, a Vikings fan. Chuck Foreman was my guy, but I was a big fan of Jim Marshall.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's go to the big finish if we could. The Rockies won yesterday. They now have 10 wins. Do you find that significant?

[Frank Isola]

It looked like There were about 10 people at the game last night in forward Florida, they're 10 and 50. It's a little hard to believe Americans Francis Tiappo and Tommy Paul went out in the quarters of the French Open. Are you disappointed?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I'm disappointed. There hasn't been an American man in the semis in the French Open since Andre Agassi in 1999. Mike Trout, 8 for 14 with a home run since his return. Big deal.

[Frank Isola]

Yeah, he looks good. By the way, that's his second career home run at Fenway Park. A little hard to win. 17 year old Mason Howell shot 6363 in a single day to qualify for the US Open. Are you impressed?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Impressed? 63, 63. I actually shoot that in one round on the front and the back. 126. Last one soccer friendly tonight. The US women played Jamaica in St. Louis.

[Michael Wilbon]

Who you got, Frank?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who you got?

[Frank Isola]

You know the US Women will win. I know you didn't like the Big Dumper nickname, but the Jamaican women, the Reggae girls, that's a good nickname name.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's nice. Yeah. We're out of time. Try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Frank Isola]

I almost jumped you there. And I'm Frank Isola. Thanks for watching. You can get the PTI podcast on the ESPN Apple Apple podcast. PTI.