Does McDavid Need a Cup to VALIDATE his Greatness?

Summary

PTI Podcast Summary: "Does McDavid Need a Cup to VALIDATE his Greatness?" Release Date: June 4, 2025
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser & Mike Wilbon
Guests: John Buccigross (ESPN Hockey)

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1. Introduction: Setting the Stage

In this episode of PTI, hosts Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbon delve into some of the hottest topics in sports. The primary focus centers around whether Connor McDavid, widely acclaimed as the best player in hockey, needs to secure a Stanley Cup to validate his greatness. Additionally, the hosts discuss significant developments such as the New York Knicks' recent coaching change and the exciting progress in the French Open.

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2. Connor McDavid: The Quest for Validation

Timestamp: [01:30]

Tony and Mike initiate their discussion by questioning if McDavid's legacy is incomplete without a Stanley Cup victory. Mike Wilbon argues, "I think he does, simply because in the NHL, the greats have won. It’s sort of unthinkable that he’s not" (01:30). He compares McDavid to legendary players like Pavel Bure and Marcel Dionne, emphasizing that unlike other sports where greats like Ted Williams and Elgin Baylor never won championships, hockey's all-time greats typically have their names on the Cup.

Tony Kornheiser concurs, albeit reluctantly, stating, "I think he has to win... I don't want to put an asterisk next to his name" (04:19). He highlights the difference in impact individual players can have in hockey and basketball compared to other sports, ultimately agreeing that a Cup win is essential for McDavid's legacy.

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3. Knicks Fire Thibodeau: A Puzzling Move

Timestamp: [04:37]

Shifting gears, Tony brings up the unexpected firing of Tom Thibodeau from the New York Knicks, expressing his surprise: "I was stunned. I don't know how you were because you weren't here" (04:37). Mike responds by expressing skepticism about potential replacements, including names like Jay Wright and Danny Hurley, questioning if any of them would be an upgrade for the Knicks.

Mike reflects, "I'm at a loss. A day later, I'm still at a loss" (06:17), indicating uncertainty about the franchise's direction and the wisdom behind the sudden coaching change.

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4. French Open Semi-Finals: Underdog Louise Boisson Shines

Timestamp: [08:14]

The conversation transitions to tennis, highlighting Coco Gauff’s impressive performance in the French Open. Mike shares his anticipation for the upcoming semifinal match: "Louise Boisson, who continued her improbable run by beating sixth seed Mira Andreeva in straight sets" (08:14). Tony is particularly intrigued by Boisson's unexpected rise, noting her as the "lowest ranked player in the last 40 years to make a French Open semifinal" and praises her as a "national champion" from Dijon (09:57).

Mike adds a twist by predicting a potential narrative conflict: "By the time the match is over, the column's gonna be Ms. Goff... Coco Gauff's gonna be the villain in this match" (10:18), suggesting that fan reactions could play a significant role in the outcome.

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5. Stanley Cup Final Preview: Panthers vs. Oilers

Timestamp: [13:44]

Bringing in expert analysis, the hosts welcome John Buccigross from ESPN Hockey to discuss the Stanley Cup Final between the Florida Panthers and Edmonton Oilers. John outlines the contrasting styles of the two teams:

• Oilers: Emphasize high-paced offense led by McDavid and Leon Draisaitl, focusing on carrying the puck into the zone.
• Panthers: Prefer a more physical approach, "dumping it in and just beat on the other team’s defensemen," aiming to wear down opponents over the series (14:03).

They also delve into the performance of the goalies:

• Sergey Bobrovsky (Oilers): A Hall of Fame-caliber goalie with multiple Vezina trophies and a recent Cup win.
• Stu Skinner (Panthers): Consistently strong performances in the playoffs, though differing in style from Bobrovsky.

John Buccigross emphasizes that while both goalies are in top form, the best goalie doesn't always secure the Cup, referencing past instances where unexpected performances tipped the scales (14:44).

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6. Panthers Coach Paul Maurice's Controversial Proposal

Timestamp: [15:20]

A contentious issue arises when Panthers head coach Paul Maurice proposes ending the tradition of coaches shaking hands after playoff series. Tony reacts with disbelief: "Unthinkable to me" (15:20). John Buccigross voices his disagreement, advocating for respecting the game and maintaining sportsmanship by continuing the handshake tradition. He remarks, "He loves the game. He loves to respect the game and respect players" (15:38).

Tony suggests alternative coaching candidates who embody "mystique," mentioning names like Jeff Van Gundy and Stan Van Gundy, but remains skeptical about finding a suitable replacement for Thibodeau (06:23).

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7. The Final Word on Connor McDavid

Timestamp: [17:36]

Returning to the central theme, Tony asks John Buccigross if McDavid needs a Stanley Cup to cement his status as the greatest. John contends that while team success is valuable, McDavid's individual brilliance is undeniable: "He can only do so much... but I think they have a touch more desperation than Florida" (17:36). He believes the Oilers' determination could be the deciding factor in securing the Cup for McDavid, reinforcing his greatness without necessarily needing the trophy (18:43).

Tony concludes by acknowledging John's perspective, summarizing the insights: "In seven" (18:48), indicating a consensus on the potential outcome of the series.

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8. Additional Sports Highlights

Timestamp: [19:05]

The hosts briefly touch upon other sports news:

• Colorado Rockies: Finally breaking a long-standing losing streak by sweeping the Miami Marlins for their first series win after 517 attempts (19:05).
• Oakland Athletics: Continuing their poor performance with an eighth consecutive loss, a troubling trend for the franchise (21:31).
• Phoenix Suns: Hiring Jordan Ott, an assistant from the Cavaliers, as their new head coach. While Mike congratulates Ott, he emphasizes the need for roster improvements alongside coaching changes (23:31).
• Phil Mickelson: Facing his final chance to win the US Open, with mixed sentiments about his prospects at Oakmont (23:52).

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9. Nostalgic Moments and Historical Anecdotes

Timestamp: [20:20]

Tony reminisces about the Washington Redskins' legendary offensive line, the "Hogs," highlighting their dominance during the Joe Gibbs era and lamenting the lack of collective recognition in the Hall of Fame. He underscores the unit's unique achievement of winning three Super Bowls with multiple quarterbacks and running backs (20:20).

Additionally, Tony recalls the infamous Cleveland Indians' 10-cent Beer Night from 51 years ago, a disastrous promotion leading to fan-player altercations and the subsequent forfeiture of the game (21:31).

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10. Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Tony and Mike share light-hearted banter about their favorite teams and upcoming games, reinforcing their camaraderie and mutual respect despite playful disagreements. They encourage listeners to tune in for future episodes and stay engaged with the latest sports happenings.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mike Wilbon: "I think he does, simply because in the NHL, the greats have won. It’s sort of unthinkable that he’s not" (01:30).
• Tony Kornheiser: "I think he has to win... I don't want to put an asterisk next to his name" (04:19).
• John Buccigross: "I love that tradition the NHL has of beating the crap out of someone for two weeks and then shaking their hands" (16:23).

---

Timestamp Key:

• 01:30
• 04:19
• 04:37
• 06:17
• 08:14
• 09:57
• 10:18
• 13:44
• 14:03
• 14:44
• 15:20
• 15:38
• 17:36
• 18:43
• 19:05
• 20:20
• 21:31
• 23:31
• 23:52

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided and are indicative for reference purposes.

Transcript

[Mike Wilbon]

When you're on the go and it's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Mike Wilbon]

So whether you're hitting the gym, the office or your next adventure, grab a Celsius at your local retailer or visit Celsius.com to learn more. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. The Panthers and Oilers start tonight. Tony, you have Stanley cup fever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm Tony Kornheiser. Maybe I woke up with a pelvic rash. That's not good.

[Mike Wilbon]

That's not good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Mike Wilbon]

Most of you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I missed you yesterday.

[Mike Wilbon]

Unless you're Elvis Presley, not good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm happy you're back. I missed you yesterday. Lot to talk about. Yeah, I'm back, but we'll talk about it today. Don't worry about it. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episod, the Knicks consider their next coach. The French Open semis are set and John Butcher Glass joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the start of the Stanley Cup Final tonight between Florida and Edmonton. We are not making picks here. We are dealing with a more amorphous question. Connor McDavid is widely regarded as the best player in hockey. This is not in dispute. McDavid is 28 and in his 10th season. Wilbourn, does McDavid need to win a cup to validate his greatness?

[Mike Wilbon]

Tony, I think he does, simply because you look. I think it's fair to judge each sport very individually. You can look at baseball and there's somebody as great as maybe the greatest hitter of all time, Ted Williams, who didn't win. You look at basketball, we all know the names, right? Stockton, Malone, Ewing, Barkley, the great Elgin Baylor. You could put a team together that might be like dream team, like of guys who didn't win. But in the NHL, Tony, the greats have won. They've all seemed to have won, as a matter of fact. And I was just putting together a list of the greatest NHL players who haven't won. And it's, it's, you know, Pavel Bure, Marcel Dionne. Marcel Dionne has 730 goals. My God. And didn't win. Jarome Iginla, Henrik Lundquist. If you're talking about goaltenders, Joe Thornton, Adam Oates, your friend, maybe Paul Correa. But the greatest of the great, their names are etched on that cup. And Connor McDavid I'm not going to put him yet ahead of Pavel Burry and Marcel Dionne. But he's up there with him and if he doesn't win, it's sort of unthinkable that he sort of is not. His name is not etched. So I'm going to say yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So we're going to agree except around the edges to some degree here. Normally I would say no, he's not going to have to win because players can play on teams in bad luck. Everyone understands that. Ted Williams never won a World Series. Ty Cobb never won the World series. Tim Griffey Jr. Didn't get to the World Series. Dick Butkus didn't win the Super Bowl, Barry Sanders didn't win a Super Bowl. But you're hard pressed to find someone in hockey who is that great. Again, we're talking about the best in the game for a period of time who didn't win because Gordie Howe and Maurice Richard and Bobby hall and Bobby Orr and Sidney Crosby and Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky, they all won. And McDavid himself says he has to win to justify his position as an all time great. Here's where we're going to differ. We're going to differ on hockey and basketball. Hockey and basketball to me are both different than baseball and football because in hockey and basketball one person can have disproportionate influence on what happens all time. Great to me is you're the best in the game for a while. I'm sorry I don't have Stockton and Malone as on that level. And as much as I love and you love Charles Barkley, love him. He's our friend. I don't have Charles Barkley on that level. The only one I could put there is Elgin Baylor and it's still a maybe for me. So I'm going to reluctantly say Mike and reluctantly that yeah, Conor McDavid has to win. I don't want to put an asterisk next to his name. I think he has to win.

[Mike Wilbon]

Tony, I would mention this. I'm glad you mentioned football where you can only impact half the game max. Right. But in the NHL you, your only ice time is a third. It's a third of the game. So I that's there's five skaters out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There so there's more room for you. Let's go back. By the way, let's go back to the Knicks firing Tom Thibodeau yesterday. I was stunned. I don't know how you were because you weren't here. So let's start with your reaction to Tibbs being canned and then your reaction to some of the names that are being publicly bandied about to replace him. And these include Michael Malone, Mike Budenholtzer, Frank Vogel, Jay Wright, Danny Hurley, John Calipari, Wilbon. The floor is yours.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah. And Jay Wright is obviously intriguing. Jay has told us, told me he not interested in that. And I take him at his word. I do like Bill Cower, that that's how I look at Jay Wright, and I don't hear a name in that group that seems to me to be some sort of upgrade. You're going to fire Tom Thibodeau. And I understand Tibbs may be flawed. I get it. Most people in any industry have some flaws. They're not perfect. Everybody's not. You know, Phil Jackson, I was dismayed when he was fired. The Knicks haven't been worth a dime, as you point out to me, for more than 20 years. And they get to a place. If we had started the year and said Tibbs was going to lead a team and they were going to beat Boston, they're going to beat the defending champions and eliminate them in the second round, and then you're going to fire them. They just extended him. The club must have thought he was worthy. And so if this is a Dolan thing, I shouldn't be all that shocked because you pointed out to me for years that Dolan's the worst. And so because of that, right there I am. I'm tempered. I'm tempered. But what are you. Where you going to go to get somebody to finish what Timbs started?

[John Buccigross]

Right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mike Wilbon]

I'm at a loss. A day later, I'm still at a loss.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All of the names that were mentioned in the setup to this story, all of them have won championships. On some level, I understand, as you understand, why they would want Jay Wright. Like you. I can't believe Jay Wright would take this job. I. I can't believe that he would work for a guy who's fired, like nine coaches in 18 years. I can't believe it. Danny Hurley, who I love, would not last a month. He would start yelling at the players, and the players say, get rid of him. We can't have him. Calipari is sort of interesting, but he did this once. He went with the Nets. His record in two plus years was 72 and 112, and he couldn't get back to college fast enough. The pro coaches that I mentioned, none of them particularly intrigued me. Yes, they won championships and were pretty quickly thereafter fired from those teams. And they don't have mystique. Jay Wright has mystique. You know who's got real mystique? Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. They got real mystique. Here's who I'd make a call to, Mike. I'd call Jeff Van Gundy because he understands what it's like in New York City. And I think that he was in the league this year, and he improved the Clippers to where they had the third best defense in the entire league. Now, he may not want the job because he may have left under circumstances that he may not want to go back. Maybe I'd call Stan Van Gundy, but I like you. I don't understand the firing. I don't want to hear that Thibodeau was too rigid and was not adaptable. They were two wins away from being in the final. What are you talking about? This is insane to me. This is insane to me.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yet real quickly, you said two days ago, when I was here, earlier in the week, I guess it was Monday, you said, this is New York. They're not gonna stand pat. They could do something dramatic. You walked right up to it, Tony. And then. I didn't think it was him on the phone. You almost called.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't think it was him. I thought it was right. I thought it would be a player. I didn't think it was. I thought he was safe. What do I know?

[Mike Wilbon]

Wow.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Go ahead.

[Mike Wilbon]

Me, too. Well, they extended him, for God's sake. Let's move to the French Open. On the women's side, Coco Gauff topped Madison Keys in three sets to make the semis. She'll face French wild card Louise Boisson, who continued her improbable run by beating sixth seed Mira Andreeva in straight sets. And on the men's side, top seed Jannik Sinner is into Friday semis himself. Tone, what stood out to you about today's results from Pat E. What stands.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Out to me about the French Open is Louise Boisson. Okay? Because nobody had heard of her or until two days ago, she had never played in a major. She had never played against someone ranked in the top 10. She was ranked 361st, which means there were probably some dead people ranked ahead of her. And then two days ago, she beats Pegula, who's the third seed. Today, she beats Andreeva, who is the sixth seed. And next up, she gets Coco Gauff, who is the two seed in her career. I heard this this morning. In her career, she had made a total of $140,000 for. By getting to where she is right now, she's made four times that. And that's not the best part of the story. The best part of the story is she's French. This is her national championship. She speaks the language, she's born in Dijon, which means she probably knows a lot about mustard. And she is the lowest ranked player in the last 40 years to make a French Open semifinal. I wrote a sports column for a long time, as did you. She's the column.

[Mike Wilbon]

You know what? She may be, but by the time the match is over, the column's gonna be Ms. Goff. And it's interesting because Coco Gauff and I've watched her in person, I have just really watched and paid close attention because she was so young, like all the greats are when they start, they're 16 and 17. She used to be even younger than that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Mike Wilbon]

And then Coco Gauff's gonna be the villain in this match. I don't know how she. I know she said all the right things. She said, I understand, I am playing a French woman. I get it. But I don't know that she gets it. Will you get it? If there's whistling, if there's anything approaching booing, which is not particularly French, but when you are as popular as Coco Gauff and she is wildly popular, how is she going to react in the moment when there's somebody else that the crowd wants? I find that an irresistible thing coming up in the semis.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Probably right about that. Let's take a break. Coming up, what should we expect from the clash of styles in the Stanley Cup Final? We're going to ask John Buttegrass.

[Mike Wilbon]

We'll also ask him whether Paul Maurice is right that coaches should not have to shake hands at the end of playoff series. Wow, radical.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you think Tibbs will get another job quickly or will people be scared off?

[Mike Wilbon]

Well, it could be a bad franchise. Could go out and get them right away.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Lets get back into tonight's start of the Stanley Cup Final with our friend from ESPN Hockey, Mr. John Buccegrass wearing a tie like an adult. I hope you take notice. Wilbon Here we go. We've got a clash of styles in this particular rematch. How do you see the differences between this season's Panthers and Oilers?

[John Buccigross]

Well of course the Edmonton Oilers like to carry the puck into the zone with their high flying Connor McDavid. Leon Draisaitl the Panthers like to dump it in and then bludgeon you like your boy Michael's Wilbur Marshall buddy back in the day was just bludgeon people on the edge. So that's what they do. They try to get wear down the other team's defenseman. So by game seven they're exhausted and maybe a little bit injured. A little bit Nicked up. So that's the, that's the difference in style. Carry the puck in or dump it and just beat on the other team's defensemen.

[Mike Wilbon]

Well, let's talk about the goalies, Bobrovski and Skinner, who both been really good in these playoffs. John, do you lean one way or the other going into this championship series?

[John Buccigross]

Well, you got to lean towards the hall of Famer, right? Sergey Bobrovsky's going to the hall of Fame. Assume he plays two more years. He'll be top four all time in wins by NHL goaltenders in the history of the league. He's got a couple Vezinas. He has the cup last year. But the best goalie doesn't always win. Stu Skinner has been the second best goalie the last eight games. The best has been Bob and the second best has been Skinner. So he comes in, he's kind of a different kind of goalie all over the place. I mean, Tim Thomas, last time the Bruins won a Stanley cup, beat Roberto Luongo, who's going to the hall of Fame. So it can happen. We've had sneaky goalies win. They both come in very, very hot.

[Mike Wilbon]

Panthers head coach Paul Maurice reportedly, and I find this to be fascinating, wants to end the tradition of head coaches shaking hands at the end of series. Unthinkable to me. But Jon, you're much closer to this. How do you feel when you hear this?

[John Buccigross]

Well, as someone who was a terrible sport back in my high school varsity days, that would cause bench clearing brawls with fights in basketball games. And one time the fans came out and grabbed me by the neck as well because I hit his brother. You know, I was pretty much a pretty poor sport. But in this situation, I disagree with Paul Maurice. I thought it was kind of grandstanding just to bring that up to Rod Brindemore, one of his former players right on the ice, to give his opinion of that moment. I don't think coaches should shake hands for players. Brenda Moore, as a former player, loves players. He loves the game. He loves to respect the game and respect players. He wants to be in that line and shake those guys hands, look them in the eye and tell them how much he respects them. So I didn't like that. I like that tradition the NHL has of beating the crap out of someone for two weeks and then shaking their hands.

[Mike Wilbon]

That's a storyline we didn't expect to have. Is there one you expect that you think, okay, people aren't paying enough to this as we enter this series?

[John Buccigross]

Well, of course we have Kind of two. As you know, when Tony weighs that can Canadian flag at the end of the show, you know, Canada hasn't won a Cup since 1993. They beat Barry Melrose in the Los Angeles Kings that year. Or Bori Berry. But since then, since Patrick Wall and Montreal won that Stanley cup series, they haven't won one. They won the Four nations this year. McDavid the overtime winner. That was good for patriotism for them and now they're trying to end this streak as well. But really the Connor McDavid thing to me is fascinating right now. He's the greatest player in the history of the sport who doesn't have a championship. Like it's not close. He's third all time points per game. Wayne, Mario and then Connor. Of the top 20 all time scorers, only three don't have a cup. Marcel Dion, Adam Och, Joe Thornton. So the best in hockey usually get their cup. There's no Ted Williams in hockey, okay? No Dan Marino. They have their championship despite looked at maybe the best of all time. But McDavid doesn't yet. And this team is up against the wall with their cap. They have no prospects. Money's been spent. If they don't get it this year, it could be tough. So it would build the drama for this legend not to have a championship yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, so I'm going to go off book and I'm going to refer to exactly what you're saying. Earlier in this show, Mike and I talked about Connor McDavid and whether or not he needs to win a Stanley cup to validate this position as one of the all time great. Not just one of the all time greats, but the best now. Clearly the best now. Do you think he needs to win a cup?

[John Buccigross]

I don't. It's 20 guys. It's not seven in basketball, you know, it's not 10, 11, 12 in baseball if you count a couple pitchers each game. It's. Although, you know, you do play maybe a little more opportunity in hockey than baseball. But I don't, like I said, it's just a lot of the time, it's right place, right time and for him, he can only do so much. He only plays about a third of the game. He doesn't play all the game. So I don't look at him that way. But I think he's healthy this year. Unlike last year. Leon Draisaitl was healthy this year and that's a different McDavid. We've seen this postseason. That's why I believe with their backs against the wall. How desperate they are as an organization, how desperate he is. That's why I think they get it done. I just think they have a touch more desperation than Florida.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Good. I was going to ask you in five seconds or less, give us a winner. But you just did. Thank you, John. Thank you.

[John Buccigross]

In seven.

[Mike Wilbon]

In seven. In seven. Jon, thank you.

[John Buccigross]

You bet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Rockies do something they haven't done all season.

[Mike Wilbon]

And the Suns appear to have a new head coach.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So he likes Edmonton. Wilbon, I know you root for Edmonton, right?

[Mike Wilbon]

I do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You want that?

[Mike Wilbon]

I do. I'm scared.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy time people. Happy 60 seconds. 2nd Birthday Jim Lachey the 6'6,290 pound offensive lineman was All Pro first team three times. He was on the 1991 Super bowl bandwagon team. In those days, the Washington offensive line was called the Hogs and their line coach, Joe Bugle was Boss Hog. During the Joe Gibbs years, when Washington won three Super Bowls, the Hogs were more glamorous than any other position group. No quarterback was revered more than the Hogs. Only John Riggins was more beloved and he made himself an honorary Hog. They were George Stark, Russ Grimm, Jeff Bostick, Joe Jacoby, Raleigh Mackenzie, Mark May, tight end Doc Walker and Lachey, who now broadcast games of his alma mater, Ohio State on radio.

[Mike Wilbon]

They should go into the hall of Fame as a unit. And it's not right that Grim is the only person from that group who's in the hall of Fame. And Grim deserves it, there's no question about that. But Lashey, Lashey was great. He was a mountain. I mean, those guys never got hurt. They had three different quarterbacks that won the super bowl, three different lead running backs. Come on now. Nobody's done this. Nobody them. Only them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A not so happy anniversary Cleveland Indians. On this day 51 years ago, the team continued an occasional promotion to draw more fans by lowering the price of their 12 ounce beers from 65 cents to 10 cents. While similar stunts had been done before, this 10 cent beer night happened to take place a week after Cleveland was involved in a brawl with the Texas Rangers. By the ninth inning, belligerent Cleveland fans were on the field attacking Rangers players. The game was forfeited to the Rangers as both teams and the umpires, bruised and bloodied, had to fight their way to the safety of their clubhouses. If you want to see the passage of time, regular beers were 65 cents. 65 cents.

[Mike Wilbon]

Tony, I know you had a social media guy, but on Instagram, occasionally, more than occasionally, almost daily, people post video of these confrontations between players and fans in the stands, on courts, on the field. It used to happen, I hate to say this, Tony, all the time. We can't even. I can't even imagine it happening at all. Once now used to happen regularly in every sport. The world was crazy back then.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy trails to the Rockies streak of losing series. The Rockies beat the Marlins in Miami last night for the second straight time, clinching their first series win after losing 22 in a row. And Colorado won again this afternoon to complete the sweep. Rockies interim manager Warren Shafer said it was, quote, a big time for the boys to get that first series win. Who would have known that? It wouldn't have come until June. But the time is now. The rockies are now 517 under Shaffer, 1250 overall.

[Mike Wilbon]

Tony, there's some bad teams in baseball. Really bad, obviously. The Rockies historically bad. The White Sox still bad. The Marlins bad again. The A's, which we may mention in the show, again bad. Some more bad. Four teams that bad at once, not good for baseball.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's go to the big finish. The Suns, who you care about, are reportedly hiring Cavs assistant Jordan Ott as their new head coach. Is that a good choice?

[Mike Wilbon]

Congrats to him, but I think they need new players. They gotta get a new roster. The Penguins hired Rangers assistant Dan Muse as their head coach. Tell us about about him. Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know nothing about him except he was an assistant with Nashville and then with the Rangers. But he probably sold himself by saying, I can be your muse. Huh? I can be your muse. Phil Mickelson acknowledged that this could be his last chance to win the US Open. Your thoughts?

[Mike Wilbon]

It's at Oakmont. He missed the cut the last two times the US Open was played there. And before that he was like, tied for 47. He's not done anything at Oakmont. Mine doesn't look good, but I hope I wish Phil all the best. Junior Camaro Caminero of the race, has five home runs in his last six games. You gotta be impressed with that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How long has it taken him to run around the bases? Did he have a clock on him? That's what I want to know. Last one.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The A's have lost eight in a row.

[Mike Wilbon]

Do I hear nine A's again? Tony, they started 2016 three. 23 since.

[John Buccigross]

Terrible.

[Mike Wilbon]

Awful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's just awful. We are out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. Dr. Kevin O' Donnell, shout out.

[Mike Wilbon]

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the ESPN app or Apple Podcast.

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