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- [00:01]
Unknown Sponsor
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- [00:32]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Limerick Day. Tony, you got one for us?
- [00:38]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony Kornheiser? Sure do. There once was a man who had hope that his hometown would soon elope with a first pick named Flag. And he'd get to brag, but don't push it. You just got the Pope.
- [00:54]
Mike Wilbon
Yep, right in the limerick. Listen, I will take a blessing from Caleb William before I even move on to the Hope for Cooper Flag tonight. I will bird in the hand, bless Caleb, and I'll let other stuff go for a little while. A little while.
- [01:12]
Tony Kornheiser
I got like 10 texts when they named the Pope and they were all the same thing. Don't tell me Wilbon played Little League with this guy. No, that's essentially what everybody said.
- [01:21]
Mike Wilbon
No, that wouldn't have been.
- [01:22]
Tony Kornheiser
That's what they thought. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, the Cavs are one game from being bounced. The Oilers suffer an improbable loss and Saints quarterback Derek Carr retires. But we begin today with a report by Sham Sharania of ESPN that Giannis Antetokounmpo is open minded about exploring whether his long term fit in the NBA is remaining in Milwaukee or playing elsewhere. Wilbon, what does that open mindedness to playing for another franchise say to you?
- [01:56]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, it's like the first sort of soft trade. Demand. I shouldn't use the word demand because if it's soft, it's not a demand. We've known this when the Milwaukee Bucks went out, as they went out, and they've gone out, what, in 22, 23 and 24 and 25? They've gone out early. They weren't even a factor, even though it looked like the building of the team and the acquisition of Dame Lillard and all these things. DACA Rivers going to coast here. All these things look like they were building toward Milwaukee having another real shot at a second championship. They won one in 21, and that's not the case. And so given that they have no real assets to throw around to change the team which is incredibly old by today's NBA standards. Giannis is going to have to go somewhere else to threaten to win. And so the where becomes the next guessing game.
- [02:54]
Tony Kornheiser
And.
- [02:55]
Mike Wilbon
And this will consume people like other superstars and other summers have when they're going to go someplace. Where is KD going to go? Where's Braun going to go? So that now will be the case with Giannis. It's understood. It's the way business operates in the NBA now. And you can start picking spots you and I will start in future days. We won't get into it maybe necessarily as much right now, but where will Giannis land? Who has the draft capital to both get him and get trade capital to get him and contend, keep enough people to contend. San Antonio spurs would be my landing spot if they don't win the lottery tonight. So this is going to fascinate people now tone for the next few weeks.
- [03:38]
Tony Kornheiser
I think this is a really big story. I think it's a bigger story than any of the playoff series right now because, you know, there are championships in the offing here. This guy Antetokounmpo is one of two players right now with MVP credentials and a championship who are in their prime. Antetokounmpo and Jokic, they are in their prime. LeBron and Steph Curry and Kevin Durant are past their primes. Tatum doesn't have an mvp, Embiid is never well, and Luka hasn't won anything. So where this guy lands is of enormous consequence. I mean, it really is. It reminds me of when Kareem said, I want to get out of Milwaukee and you need to trade me. And when Wilt said, you've got to trade me, this is a really big deal. Both those guys ended up in la. So I'm going to start right now with the Los Angeles Lakers. And I'm going to say they're always in the mix and the league would probably want him in a place like Los Angeles. I'm going to say the Celtics are involved. I'm going to echo what you said and say that San Antonio is involved and it's possible to me. And I don't know how much Giannis Antetokounmpo likes the Midwest, but if he does, then Cleveland and Detroit and Indiana might be involved in this. It is, too. Yes, it is a guessing game, Mike, but his competence. Let me ask you this. That lottery is tonight. If you won the first pick, would you trade it even up for Giannis Antetokounmpo?
- [05:08]
Mike Wilbon
Because if you are Depends on who I am. Depends on who I am, Tony, and what I think I have. So, like Philadelphia, suppose Philadelphia wins. Are they better served with having Giannis out there and keeping Embiid and everything else? They have Maxey and are they better Paul George or listen, Cooper Flagg is going to be a hard person to deal away at. 19 years old or 18, not even 19 yet. But the guessing game begins and it begins tonight. Tony, you're absolutely right about that.
- [05:37]
Tony Kornheiser
Yep, that's right. That's right.
- [05:39]
Mike Wilbon
The Cleveland Cavaliers lost more than Game four to the Pacers yesterday. The team also lost its biggest star, Donovan Mitchell, during yesterday's beat down that put the Pacers up three games to one. An MRI today revealed Mitchell re aggravated a left ankle injury and will be a game time decision for tomorrow night's elimination game in Cleveland. Tone Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said, quote we haven't done anything yet. Close quote Is that how you see it?
- [06:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Actually, I do. It's three to one. It's not four to one. They're in the process of doing something, but they haven't closed it out yet by any stretch of the imagination. Although you'll be able to tell the people who are watching now the text you received from me in the middle of that game yesterday where I said, I can't believe this. I can't believe how easy for Indiana to score on Cleveland. It was 80 to 49 at the half or 80 to 41. It was unbelievable at the half 80 because Denver and Oklahoma City struggled to get 80 for the whole game. They didn't even Indiana didn't even need Tyrese Halliburton. He had 11 points. They didn't need a last second shot unless it was the last second of the first minute. Mike I thought, I thought Cleveland had righted itself. I think Cleveland won Game 3 by 22 on the road and I thought that was a big win. They got those three guys back. They got Hunter back, they got Mobley back, they got Marlin back. They only gave them 33 points in this most recent game. Indiana had 33 nine minutes into the game. I mean, this was a rout. A rout.
- [07:20]
Mike Wilbon
Tony. It had to surprise everybody, the nature of it. Not that Indiana would come back and sort of get control of a game in Indianapolis because they can do that. They're good enough to do that. We saw them play well last year in the playoffs. Tony Offensively though, let me give the Pacers as much credit because like you, I'm first looking at Cleveland and thinking to myself My God. First, are they still injured? Those guys are back in the lineup, but they don't look like themselves to me. And I had somebody we know, I won't name this person near and dear to both of us who said to me 20 minutes ago, these games are inelegant. They are. These games are difficult. They are all grinded out. People are banged up and injured and things happen in these games that you can't always explain. And Tony, that's at the heart of this. And Cleveland was in this position yesterday in Indianapolis. Indiana took complete advantage of it. And Tony, offensively, the Pacers are now the most fun team to watch. And if Steph Curry's not out there for Golden State, Indiana's the best team to watch. Play offense.
- [08:25]
Tony Kornheiser
I told you after game one that Indiana had imposed its will on Cleveland. And we have now seen this three different times. By the way, in my ear they tell me 80 to 39, 80 to 39 at the end, 41 point lead, insane. We move on. Guess what comes up now, kids in the third spot. Hockey. Over the weekend we had a game winning goal with less than one second to play by Las Vegas. We had Dallas appear to kick in a go ahead goal that was allowed to stand against Winnipeg. We had Carolina dominate the Capitals in their game three and Florida won a game again at home to even their series with Toronto. Wuban, which NHL series are you finding most compelling at the moment?
- [09:07]
Mike Wilbon
Tony? I was going to just try to change it up and maybe mention the Capitals. You know, where somebody in my house is paying attention, but I'm not paying all that much attention. Although the Capitals are now in the get it back time. I mean if you're going to have this, you know, wonderful ending where the great eight keeps being great and keeps going on, they need to come back. You don't want to. NHL seems to have more 31 comebacks in the NBA, but still, let's not get carried away, Tony. It's Edmonton. I mean, just when it looked like Edmonton was going to go up three nothing and they allow, they have this turnover with like one second left and the actual puck goes in the net, off the camera in the back of the net with 4/10 of a second left and you're not even sure it went in the net off dry side will stick. It sets up more drama. And so no, Edmonton doesn't just run away being up three nothing. So that is still the series for me that I am completely compelled by.
- [10:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I would love to say the Capitals because it is now, my hometown team, having lived in Washington much longer than I ever lived in New York, but the games haven't been good. They haven't been one goal games. They haven't been all that interesting. You take Ovechkin out of this. There's nothing left. I'll give you Edmonton. I'll stay away from that. I'll say that. Florida, Toronto, I mean, the fact that Florida has never won a series where they went down 02 and they went down 02, and now it's 2 2, and you can never count them out. But Mike, the one that I'm going to lean on is actually the Winnipeg series with Dallas. And I'm not a hockey guy, you know that. I can't name anybody on Winnipeg other than the goalie Hellebock, who, by the way, has a terrible statistic on the road.
- [10:48]
Mike Wilbon
How's that going? How's that going for you?
- [10:50]
Tony Kornheiser
6.65 goals per game on the road. He's got it. He's on the road for game four. But I mean, you know, you had the drama of what I thought was an own goal in that particular the go ahead game. You've got the target on Winnipeg and the burden of winning the President's Trophy, because those people very, very rarely win the Cup. And then you got, you know, Rantican Ratneken. What is his name? Rantikin.
- [11:18]
Mike Wilbon
Rantanen. Rantikin.
- [11:19]
Tony Kornheiser
Somebody get in my ear.
- [11:20]
Mike Wilbon
Hat trick. Mr. Hat trick.
- [11:21]
Tony Kornheiser
He's unbelievable.
- [11:23]
Mike Wilbon
Mr. Thornton.
- [11:23]
Tony Kornheiser
He has now either scored or assisted on 15 of Dallas's last 17 playoff goals. It's remarkable. So I'll stay with that series.
- [11:34]
Mike Wilbon
Let's take a break.
- [11:36]
Tony Kornheiser
Coming up, the Thunder tie up their series with the Nuggets. How should Nikola Jokic and company feel right now?
- [11:42]
Mike Wilbon
And will the Celtics and Warriors even up their series tonight? Doubleheader.
- [11:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Tom Nico, Rantanen, Miko Rantanen. And you know what, Mike? You know what Takounmpo knows it's never going to be Dame time in Milwaukee.
- [11:59]
Mike Wilbon
Don't say that.
- [12:00]
Tony Kornheiser
He's too old and he's out all year. No, it's not going to be, Mike. That's why. That's why Giannis is going. He's out all year.
- [12:07]
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- [12:18]
Mike Wilbon
My car is making this noise. Sometimes it's like. And sometimes it's like.
- [12:24]
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- [12:25]
Mike Wilbon
Oh, yeah.
- [12:26]
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- [12:36]
Mike Wilbon
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- [12:38]
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- [12:54]
Tony Kornheiser
It's time to hear from the horde and mail. Let me put on my glasses and see what's first here. Here we go. Should the Nuggets be encouraged or discouraged that their series with the Thunder is tied 2 to 2?
- [13:07]
Mike Wilbon
Well, Tony, there will be some short term discouraged feeling coming out of yesterday's game in which I mean, you know, that's the kind of game that the Nuggets have been winning. They won a couple earlier in this series, games one and three and you thought maybe they'd have control of it and, and then Oklahoma City showed, you know, that it's learning how to do this. Speaking of grind it out and just difficult games. So. But I would say overall they should still feel encouraged. You're the champs once removed, right? It's two. Two. Yes. You have to go on the road and win one in Oklahoma City, but you've done that. You know how to win games on the road these last couple years and you've got the best player in the world, maybe not this year's mvp because that still to me, as you know, I'm steadfast. He said that's sga. But if you're Nikola Jokic and if you are his team, you know, when you walk on the floor, you got the best player in the world in your jersey. So they should feel still encouraged to me if I'm Denver, I disagree.
- [14:07]
Tony Kornheiser
I think they should feel discouraged at 2 to 2. I think they had to win. They should have won this game. They could have won this game. They should have won this game. They were up 73, 66 with 10 to go. After that, they were outscored 2614 by Oklahoma City. You know that we've talked about this. I think Denver needs a real point guard. There are critical situations where they just dribble around in circles and nothing goes on. Oklahoma City has won two games in the series, one by 43 and one by five. But the five, which was yesterday, close one, there were no one possession circumstances in the last four minutes of that game. Whereas Denver, Denver, to win games has to sink a shot right at the buzzer or they have to go to overtime. So Mike, I don't, as an observer, I don't have faith in Denver's Victories and I think they had to win this past one. I do. I think they had to win.
- [15:02]
Mike Wilbon
I think yesterday's win was critical in that crunch time, that highly pressurized time that young teams fail in. We've seen that. We saw Detroit in that situation. We saw Oklahoma City in that situation, but not yesterday. It's an important win. But if I'm Denver, I got Joker. Let's go. Tee it up.
- [15:21]
Tony Kornheiser
Do you like the Celtics and Warriors to even up their series tonight?
- [15:26]
Mike Wilbon
I do, Tony, and I don't think that the Knicks are going to get blowed out. I think it's going to be a close game. But the Knicks can't be falling behind by 20 in the first quarter or second quarter. They got to keep the game reasonably close. They can win the close game. The Celtics don't play as well in the close games even though they do play pretty well on the road no matter what. But I think the Knicks, it's going to be a real game that the Celtics will win ultimately. And I think the warriors should have won already. Game 3 in San Francisco in Chase Center. I think they will tonight. But Jimmy Butler's got to have a huge game. I think he will have it. Pajimski can't keep going 1 4. He's got to join the fray in the absence of Steph Curry. But I think both of them, Celtics and Warriors win.
- [16:15]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't, I don't think the warriors are going to win. I think they came close the other day. They lost by five, but they lost. I don't think they can win without Steph Curry. I do think the Celtics can win. They blew the Knicks doors off in game three. They finally held on to a 20 point lead and expanded a 20 point lead. And this would be my point, Mike. I don't think that the Knicks have won these games in games one and two as much as the Celtics lost the games in one and two. They just went ice cold. They stopped hitting any shot and it didn't work. They've had, this is important to note. They've had a 20 point lead in the second half in all three games. They're a better team. I grew up rooting for the Knicks. I'd love to see the Knicks win. The Celtics are a better team and the Celtics are great on the road and they understand the moment. Like you saw that in three. They understood the moment. That's all I'm saying.
- [17:12]
Mike Wilbon
Keep this one thing in mind. The Knicks haven't played well yet and I don't think they're gonna go a whole series and not put together one really good game. I think that game is tonight, but I know that it'll be enough.
- [17:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Email let's take one last break. Still to come, Michael Jordan has a new gig that few expected and the.
- [17:31]
Mike Wilbon
Cooper flag lottery is tonight. I'm looking for my Bulls to shock the world and win the number one pick. Blessed.
- [17:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Sometimes people get in my ear and they tell me what Jordan, what the new gig is. I don't know what it is. Have a time, people. Happy 74th birthday, George Carl Karl started out as a guard for Dean Smith in North Carolina. Played five seasons in the NBA, averaging 6.5 points a game. But he's in the hall of Fame because of his accomplishments as a coach. Carl coached the Cavaliers, the Warriors, the SuperSonics, the Bucks, the Nuggets and the Kings. Carl was Coach of the year in 2013 in Denver. His career record is 1,175 and 824, good enough for sixth all time in wins. Karl has 20 more wins than Phil Jackson, whose Bulls beat Carl's sonics in the 1996 NBA Finals. A story in the New York Times yesterday talked about Carl's battles with cancer and his chagrin that no teams call him to solicit his opinions and his vast knowledge of basketball.
- [18:41]
Mike Wilbon
And it is vast knowledge, Tony, as you and I know firsthand from being able to listen to George Carl as sports writers and then hosting this show, few people we'd love to talk to about basketball more than George Carl. Do you agree with me?
- [18:57]
Tony Kornheiser
100%. Happy anniversary, Giancarlo Stanton on this day 10 years ago while with the Marlins, Stanton became the fourth player in major league history to hit a fair ball out of Dodger stadium, joining Mark McGuire, Mike Piazza and Willie Stargell, who did it twice. Stanton's home run traveled an estimated 478ft. Stanton hits the ball really hard According to Statcast, Stanton mashes it of the top 15 hardest hit home runs since 2015, Stanton has eight of them. Stanton had the second hardest hit ball of all time, a 122.2 mile per hour single in 2017. In 2022, Pirates rookie O' Neil Cruz announced his arrival by breaking that record with a screaming 122.54 mile an hour single. Well, you are a big fan of Exit Velo, right? You. You subscribe to Exit Velo?
- [19:47]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah. By all time you mean in the get up era. So in the minute and a half that they've had this stupid number because you know what? Josh Gibson and the Babe and Garrig, they didn't have that Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, they didn't have the. The exit velocity, did they? Oh, they didn't hit balls very hard. I hate this stuff. I hate it.
- [20:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy Trail's Bud Black. The Rockies fired their manager on Sunday after a rare win rather than on Saturday after a 21 to nothing loss. Before that loss, Rockies GM Bill Schmidt backed Black saying, quote, I think our guys are still playing hard. That's what I look at. But the next day's firing was issued by team owner and CEO Dick Monfort, who called this season's play quote, unacceptable. The Rockies are 7:33 coming off seasons in which they lost 101 and 103. Three games. Dodgers manager Dave Roberts told Bob Nightingale of USA Today, quote, I don't think Casey Stengel could change the outcome of that ball club. That's not the manager's fault, Unquote.
- [20:47]
Mike Wilbon
Amen. When I heard the vote of confidence, I was like, what are they talking about? You know they're going to blame Bud Black even though he can't be to blame for this. It starts at the top of the pyramid, not with the field manager. Please stop it.
- [21:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's go to the big finish. Michael Jordan will be a special contributor to the NBA on NBC. Are you surprised?
- [21:08]
Mike Wilbon
I don't even know what it means. And neither do most people who are going to overstate it. They don't know what it means. You're just going to go wild with speculation. Derek Carr retired with a degenerative condition in his throwing shoulder. Your thoughts?
- [21:23]
Tony Kornheiser
It's degenerative. It's not getting any better. They drafted a quarterback, Tyler Schuck out of Louisville. We'll see. I think he's like 27 years old. Rafael Devers hit a game winning two run homer as the Red Sox beat the Royals on Sunday.
- [21:36]
Mike Wilbon
You impressed 6 for 7, a home run and five. Ribby's Player of the Week as DH. Not at first base. Just saying. The Eagles and Cowboys will kick off the upcoming NFL season. I think it stinks, but I'm sure you love the matchup.
- [21:53]
Tony Kornheiser
It's a great matchup. It'll get the highest rating ever of an opening game on the NFL ever. Last one NBA draft lottery is tonight. Break it down for us.
- [22:04]
Mike Wilbon
Well, the Jazz, the Wizards and the Hornets have the best odds. 14% each. I think it's gonna come from back in the pack. Tony. I'm treated like a horse race.
- [22:13]
Tony Kornheiser
We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [22:17]
Mike Wilbon
And I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the app or Apple podcast. Wait till you see what kind of magic I'm making over to Madison Square Garden.