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- [00:00]
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- [00:40]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre. Even though my podcast just won a Pulitzer Prize, I am most proud of the work I've done on this show with you, Tony.
- [00:49]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. I wrote that for him. That's good, isn't it? Yeah.
- [00:54]
Pablo Torre
Did I not sell that well enough? Did I not sell? No, you sold it practically obligated of me. Yeah.
- [00:59]
Tony Kornheiser
No. On behalf of everyone on this show and other people in the world, I want to congratulate you on the Pulitzer. And then I want to ask you this. Did that sound sincere? Did I mask my jealousy well enough in that? Did it? Because I felt like, okay, so there's Remnick, you know, there's Tom Friedman, there's Woodward, now you. Everybody's got one of these. I don't. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilbon tapped out day early. So I'm joined by the host of the Pulitzer Prize winning podcast, Pablo Torre finds out. Our great friend, Mr. Pablo Torre. Well deserved. Well deserved. And we begin today with the New York Knicks easily beating Cleveland last night in Madison Square Garden. 109, 93 to take a 20 lead in their Eastern Conference final series. There was no stirring comeback needed last night. The Knicks were up by 15 in the third quarter. The Knicks have now won nine playoff games in a row. Pablo, are you allowing yourself to believe that this is the Knicks year?
- [02:01]
Pablo Torre
If not now, when? Tony? Like, this is it. This is the. I was gonna say this is the best Knicks team I've seen in my lifetime. I was gonna then say this is the best Knicks team that I'm sure you've seen in your lifetime. But I don't know.
- [02:16]
Tony Kornheiser
I'll get to that.
- [02:18]
Pablo Torre
No, because right now, right now, the prisoner of the moment I am locking myself inside of is they've been, point differential wise, better than any team in a nine game stretch that's ever been. And so if you're looking at this series and you're looking at how good of course Brunson has been and how good Bridges has become and Towns is the best version of himself and then you're looking at what we'll talk about later, the rock em sock em robot injury plagued series that is becoming Spurs Thunder. This is how it would happen it with the Capital I and the T and all the buses and the parades.
- [02:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. So I mean right now I believe that both teams in the Western Conference are better than the Knicks. They're better. But if the Knicks beat Cleveland and it looks to me like it's going to be a sweep. But if the Knicks beat Cleveland, it's not like they have to face both San Antonio and Oklahoma City one after another. They only have to face one of them. And the Knicks are playing the best basketball in the world right now. And as you say, that +212 differential over the last nine games is not only the greatest 212, it's not only the greatest differential in playoff history. It's regular season two of, of all time. So you asked me about teams that I love with the Knicks. I mean I remember very well both Knicks championship teams. Obviously, because I'm old, I favored the first one over the second one. But you have to understand I'm looking at it through the eyes of a teenager and a fan at that point. But I thought they passed it better than any team ever. I thought they shot it better than any team ever. And that was of course Reid and debusscher and Frazier and Bradley and Barnett. Now interesting. I've said that to Wilbon and Wilbon a couple of days ago talked to Walt Frazier about this in New York. And Walt said he felt the next Knicks team, the second championship team with Earl Monroe had more talent, but that the first one was more of a team. They personified what a team is. And I will live with that. And I'll also say this. You know, anything can happen in a finals. You're not saving anything for the next series because this is the last series the Knicks can win. And I wonder about this. I know you want to jump in. You can when I'm done. The atmosphere in Madison Square Garden in New York City, are they prepared for that from San Antonio and Oklahoma City? I think it could be intimidating. Go ahead.
- [04:46]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I can't drop a name like Clyde Frazier in terms of who I've been consulting. I've been talking to my friends from high school and we have experienced Only the trauma of would be Knicks fans who are not even sure, can we really enjoy this, even though it looks and feels like this is what a championship run would look like. But if you are a Knicks team that is just on the couch waiting and resting and you get to be at full strength while your opponent is not. Look, as much as I love the peak performance version of the Knicks right now, I also just acknowledge that it's a war of attrition. And I'm not even saying that the Knicks are not benefiting from the roulette wheel spinning favorably because of course that's exactly what's happening. But man, I think a shocking thing might happen, which is that this team, which no one had winning the title, it might be the Knicks team to actually break the spell. And so, Tony, should we talk about the Western Conference finals now or should I. Should I leave room? Okay. Because I think the story has to move to San Antonio tonight because Jalen Williams is listed as questionable for the Thunder while de' Aaron Fox and Dylan Harper are game time decisions for the Spurs. These are the injuries we've been talking about. And the series is tied to one game apiece. And so which team faces more pressure to win game three? Is it the Thunder or the Spurs?
- [06:02]
Tony Kornheiser
So let me just say that I don't really think that a game three is all that important because it's not an elimination game and the worst you're going to be is down 2 to 1. I can make the case that there is less pressure on San Antonio because San Antonio has already won a game in Oklahoma City. So if they have to go back there, they can win a game. If San Antonio were to win this game, that puts all the pressure on Oklahoma City. I mean, I think that's obvious because then San Antonio would have won games in both venues. But if you ask me, honestly, honestly, I think there's more pressure on San Antonio and I think that because there's more pressure on Victor Wembanyama than any basketball player alive when he walks on the court. Because everybody is watching and everybody's expecting and everybody is being judgmental. So. And also Oklahoma City, they've won a championship. They know how this works. San Antonio can only guess at how it works. You mentioned all of these injuries. If both those guys, if Harper and Fox cannot play and the ball handling responsibility defaults to Stefan Castle, if I have this number correct, it's an unbelievable number. He has 20 turnovers in the last two games. That's like James Harden land, right? So I don't know.
- [07:25]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, wembanyama. I mean, just to remember what it was like in game one, we did coordinate him and it was logical to do so. There was this deus ex wembanyama moment where it's like, oh, just he's going to save us. And so now the pressure, I agree with you here. The pressure is going to be, well, what happens if someone can't get him the ball in the way that he likes it? What happens when he has to create more than his comfort zone normally allows for? And so if you're the spurs, look, the Spurs, Dylan Harper is incredible. At age 20, he is so special. He would be a lead story if not for the aforementioned 7 foot 5, 20 something year old himself. And so for me, the question is, if you're the spurs, do you think you should win? Because if you think you do, you need this one and you need to prove that you don't need to be at peak performance, full strength, because the Thunder, by the way, they have depth beyond depth. Your problem is not their problem in terms of the shallowness of your bench.
- [08:25]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm just going to go back to this one statistic though, that if you lose, if you're San Antonio and you lose, you've beaten this other team five times this year. You already beat them in Oklahoma City. You've proven that. I just, I don't think they're in terrible trouble if they lose. I think Oklahoma City is if they lose, but not San Antonio so much. Let's move to the NFL. And Matthew Stafford, the reigning MVP, has just signed a one year, $55 million extension, which adds a year to the $50 million deal he has for this coming season. The indication then is Stafford will play two more years for the Rams, who use the number 13 pick in the most recent draft to take quarterback Ty Simpson. Pablo, does this extension quiet the questions about why the Rams drafted Simpson or does it raise more?
- [09:13]
Pablo Torre
I think it raises more. I mean, the question I have is, oh, so you guys are doing the Jordan love thing. Question mark. You get this guy in the first round, he sits for two years, while the most cost effective, cheapest years on his contract on that rookie wage scale are draining away. And then he comes and takes over. Now that worked for them. For the packers, it typically is really difficult because of course, the NFL salary cap is merciless in its constraints. And so I remember Tony, when they took Ty Simpson and Sean McVay in that presser next to Les Sneed, was not exactly visibly excited about this. And Everything he said after that was because he wanted to protect Matthew Stafford and his legacy and his feelings. And so here's the protection they gave him another year. The question is, will they stick with him for full. For two full years as opposed to just giving him the thing? Because guess what, you might get the hook pretty soon.
- [10:11]
Tony Kornheiser
So I view this a little bit differently than you do. And the first thing I would say is that it seems to me that Sean McVay knows a little bit about offense. And I think it's possible that he sees something special in Simpson that perhaps other teams drafting did not see. And he has the luxury to wait on Simpson because the other luxury he has is a great quarterback. And if Matthew Stafford's feelings were hurt, and I would understand that, I think when you give him $55 million for another year, that sort of soothes some of that pain, right? It soothes some of the pain. I'm old enough, Pablo, to remember when quarterbacks were drafted. Even first round quarterbacks were drafted and they did not play right away. There was an apprenticeship of three or four or maybe even five years. Aaron Rodgers waited three years before he got in there over Brett Favre. Steve Young waited four years for Joe Montana. These are hall of Fame quarterbacks. Now, if your team stinks and you don't like your quarterback, you're going to play the quarterback right away. The Rams are contending. They're a Super bowl contending team and they have a great quarterback. So they don't, they don't have to do that. It just, it seems to me in a best case scenario, you're going to turn to Simpson when Stafford is not there. And I think it's fair to say that last year Stafford ruminated publicly as to whether he would retire. So if you're the coach of that, you say, whoa, I've gotta be prepared. I've got to be prepared in that eventuality. So let me grab a kid right now.
- [11:45]
Pablo Torre
I will simply remind you that I am looking into the camera and seeing a man who often muses about retirement and I think would not take money as the solution to his insecurity about someone trying to take his job. I just want to point that out. It might not be as easy as that dynamic might suggest.
- [12:05]
Tony Kornheiser
That's fair. But, I mean, I can't imagine that Matthew Stafford has anywhere near the insecurities or anxieties that I have. I just don't think he does. He's an MVP of the league and a Super bowl winner. Let's take a break. Coming up, should we blame rust for the hurricane's first loss of the playoff? Rust never sleeps, baby. Never sleeps.
- [12:25]
Pablo Torre
And what sort of interest is it okay to have in this weekend's enhanced games in which steroids are welcome?
- [12:32]
Tony Kornheiser
Neil Young reference. Everybody get that? You old enough for Neil Young, Pablo?
- [12:37]
Pablo Torre
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [12:41]
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- [12:55]
Tony Kornheiser
And.
- [12:55]
Bucked Up Advertiser
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- [13:22]
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- [14:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Time to find out what's on the minds of the minions in mail time. That's three M's. I'll put on my glasses and I'll get the first one. Would you chalk up the Hurricane's first loss of the playoffs to rust?
- [14:21]
Pablo Torre
I don't think you need to be an investigative reporter, Tony, to look at this game last night where The Canadiens won 6 to 2 and factor in the 11 days off that the Hurricanes had. 11 days off being more than we have seen since, I believe, the 1920s or thereabouts. And so for me, this was a team in the Hurricanes that had given up 10 goals in eight games. And that first period was a debacle in ways that were both qualitative and quantitative. And so I'm looking at the variable. What's different? It's the 11 days. So yes, my detector indicates. Yeah, a little bit of rust.
- [15:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I mean, I think it's fair to say that because There was an 11 day lapse, you know, you can't simulate a real game when you practice. Their coach, Rod Brindemore said the same thing is a direct quote. We clearly were not ready for that pace. Carolina had 18 straight, as you're saying, and they first, by the way, they had the first goal last night. They scored 33 seconds into the game. But at the end of the first 20 minutes, they were looking for the barf bag because they had given up four goals at that point and Carolina got blowed out. So again, it's safe to hide behind the notion of rust. I'm not sure that then takes into consideration what Montreal has done on the road in these playoffs. They are seven and two on the road. They are a monster on the road. This is the third team they have done this to in a series. So I'm not. If you just say it's rust, I don't think you're looking at the whole picture here. I mean, I really don't. Montreal, you can't stop them on the road, can't stop them. Right. It's not just rust.
- [16:08]
Pablo Torre
No, they're really good. It's just 11 days is crazy. I haven't done PTI in months. Nail this. That's the equivalent.
- [16:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Well, you said, I think it hadn't happened since 1919. I was like a sophomore in high school in 1990. What's your level of interest in the Enhanced Games?
- [16:28]
Pablo Torre
I perversely am fascinated and I'm conflicted by the rubbernecking I'm going to do. For those not familiar, the Enhanced Games are basically the Olympics. You've covered many Olympics, but with steroids. And you've covered many Olympics with steroids, just never as a function of the actual promotion at hand. And so it's a million dollars if you break a world record. It's happening in Vegas. There is a store. Tony, I don't know if you know what peptides are. You could buy peptides. You can buy this special regimen of testosterone. It's a business with, in fact, public company that's going to allow them to monetize what has been until now, truly something that sports did not want. And now it's the opposite.
- [17:11]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, yeah. It's like the new Genics Olympics. At this point you're allowed to get completely roided up. Right. That's okay. All those drugs are out there for you, all the performance enhancing drugs. So I would assume if they're, and I'm told they're giving out a lot of money. If you break a world record, it's time for Ben Johnson to come back and see if he can get that world record now that it's okay to use all sorts of performance enhancing drugs. Mike, I have a level of interest in the Olympic Games. Not so much so far for the enhanced Games, which seem like a made for TV special. It seems to me sort of like the President's cup when compared to the Ryder Cup. But you know, I don't know how to truly look at this. The guy who's, I think I have this right, the guy who was in charge of the United States Anti Doping association has called this quoting here a clown show. A clown show. So to me at the moment, and I'm glad you're gonna watch, I'm glad you're interested in it, to me at the moment, it feels like the hot dog eating contest on July 4th. It doesn't feel like sports really doesn't
- [18:17]
Pablo Torre
feel like, yeah, they call it the Apollo program for modern times. I'm not co signing that. I'm there because I think this will be a wreck and I can't look away. That's probably going to be where I am on this.
- [18:29]
Tony Kornheiser
That's fine. Enough email. Let's take one last break. Still to come, some reflections on the sudden death of a NASCAR legend and
- [18:37]
Pablo Torre
could Jeff Van Gundy be the next coach of the Portland Trail Blazers?
- [18:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Ben Johnson, though, the NASCAR thing. The NASCAR thing, when I first saw that this morning, that's jolted. That's absolutely. I thought 41 years old.
- [18:52]
Pablo Torre
I was like, oh, this is fake. Yeah, this is a fake headline.
- [18:55]
Tony Kornheiser
41 years old. You just don't ever expect something like that.
- [19:01]
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- [20:12]
Pablo Torre
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- [20:52]
Commercial Announcer
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- [21:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 39th birthday Novak Djokovic Viewers of this program will know I'm no fan and at this age we have to wonder how much gas is left in his tank. But Djokovic is still a compelling figure in tennis. He has the most majors of any male player. 24 despite the fact that he hasn't won a major since 2023, Djokovic is still ranked fourth in the world. It would seem his best chances at another major are coming up at the French Open in Wimbledon since the injured Carlos Alcaraz will not play. Now Djokovic just has to go through Jannik Sinner, not Sinner and Alcaraz both. If Djokovic and Sinner meet in Paris, it will be in the finals as they are on opposite sides of the draw.
- [21:41]
Pablo Torre
Tony I'm not personally a big fan of him. He tends to traffic in like pseudoscience and stuff like that on top of his general Persona. But as a columnist or a feature writer, what a gift for him to still be around and now striving to be interesting. That to me makes me want to salute him as well.
- [22:00]
Tony Kornheiser
100%. About that happy anniversary Mike Piazza on this day 28 years ago after playing just five games with the Marlins this the six time all star and Silver slugger catcher was traded to the Mets. Piazza, the rookie of the year with The Dodgers in 1993, had demanded a trade out of LA after a protracted contract dispute. Piazza finished the 1998 season hitting.328 32 home runs, 111 RBI, becoming the first major leaguer to ever hit 30 plus home runs while playing at least one game with three different teams teams. While with the Mets, Piazza would make six more All Star appearances and have that bizarre confrontation with Roger Clemens throwing the barrel of a bat at him in the World Series. Piazza would also have his number 31 retired by the Mets and would make the hall of Fame.
- [22:50]
Pablo Torre
Look, I grew up, of course, a Yankee fan. I grew up sort of laughing at Mike Piazza, but something that you could not deny when it came to offensive numbers, performance by a catcher. He's as good as anyone who's ever lived. And the Clemens thing, still utterly insane.
- [23:04]
Tony Kornheiser
To relive a melancholy trails to Kyle Busch. The two time NASCAR cup champion died shockingly Thursday at the age of just 41 after being hospitalized with a severe illness. No further specifics have been given. Busch holds the record for most wins across NASCAR's top three series, 234. In fact, he just won a truck series race last Friday. Bush was nicknamed Rowdy and he regularly fought and feuded with other drivers, Fox's Bob Pockgrass wrote today. Quote, fans would cheer. Fans would boo. Some lived to see him win, some lived to see him lose. But he made them all feel alive. And because of that, many will remember Kyle Busch as one of the greatest of all time. Unquote.
- [23:47]
Pablo Torre
And Tony, we are still searching for answers. I don't know if we will ever get answers. But what Kyle Busch said after last Friday's win was, quote, you never know when the last one is going to be. So cherish them all. Trust me. End quote. And so that that reminder that we're just all on the roulette wheel of life, it could go at any moment. It's a reminder that I credit to him as we all miss him as an athlete who made things interesting.
- [24:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Let us go to the big finish. Jeff Van Gundy is reportedly a finalist for the Trailblazers head coaching jaw. Does that make sense?
- [24:22]
Pablo Torre
Sense? Does he like discounts Jeff Van John? That'll be the question. Padres star Fernando Tatis Jr. Has yet to homer this season. Is that cause for concern?
- [24:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Really? 48 games. He has no home runs. He's a power hitter. His OPS is.590. That's bad. Aaron Judge has just one home run his last 14 games. How does that feel?
- [24:45]
Pablo Torre
Suboptimal. But again, not as bad as the Red Sox. Cale Makar, meanwhile is out again as the Avs host the Golden Knights tonight in Game 2. Your thoughts?
- [24:55]
Tony Kornheiser
He's a great player. I think Colorado has to win this game. I think there's a must win for them. Last one. Garrett Cole makes his season debut tonight against the Rays. What are your expectations Yankee fan?
- [25:06]
Pablo Torre
That he will cover first. That he will cover first base. Not that I'm holding a grudge or anything from being popular.
- [25:15]
Tony Kornheiser
So such a local story. That was such a good pull by you. We're out of ties.
- [25:20]
Pablo Torre
True.
- [25:21]
Tony Kornheiser
We'll try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [25:24]
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. Thank you for watching. Pablo Torre finds out is the show but your Sports Center.
- [25:30]
Tony Kornheiser
Congratulations on a Pulitzer and that is as sincere as I get.
- [25:35]
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