Tony Kornheiser (3:21)

Yeah, I mean, look, I want to say at the top that I still think the Celtics have a good chance to win this series. They had the best road record in the NBA this past season. They were 33, 8. They are 20 so far at Madison Square Garden. But they need to have a plan B because, Mike, in the fourth quarter now of two full games, they have a total of 33 points. 33 points in two different fourth quarters, total. That's terrible. Now, I assume, and we had this discussion this morning, I assume that the Boston Celtics actually paid Joe Missoula to be the head coach. And so at that point, at that point, even if you are philosophically in line with taking threes all the time, you have to have a plan B. That's what they pay you to have as a plan B. So you have to gather the players around and say, we're going to go to plan B now. And if the players on the court don't want to do it, you sit them down and you get other players. I'm not saying, Mike, you have to go to plan B the whole game, but I am saying this, that the clinical definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. There's not going to be a different result here. This is an aberration. They shot threes so well for a long time. I got a great stat you love. In their last 564 games, this is only the second time that they've gone two games in a row shooting 25% or less from three.

Mike Wilbon (4:44)

Wow.

Tony Kornheiser (4:45)

But, Mike, okay, it's an anomal, but that doesn't mean it's fiction. It's happening.

Mike Wilbon (4:52)

They have to change completely. But the Head coach is like the players. They all. That's why I call them a cult. They all believe the same thing. And there apparently is nobody who can say, hey, pay attention to this game. Not your whacked out philosophy. I love it. Because it's killing the analytics people. The analytics people are sitting around going, what do you mean you can score from like not a layup or three? Yeah, apparently you can out in the West. Meanwhile, the Thunder did not fall into an O2 hole. Shai Gilgeous Alexander scored 34 points, added eight assists, and the Thunder crushed the Nuggets by 43 to even that series of the game each. Meanwhile, SGA's MVP rival Nikola Jokic scored only 17, posted the worst plus minors of his career at minus 36. Tone in your mind, where does this series stand now?

Tony Kornheiser (5:46)

So the other day I said maybe we would call for a revote on mvp. If we called for a revote after this one, it would go back to the original, obviously. Yeah. Look, I am not the slightest bit surprised that Oklahoma City won this game big. I am not going to be the slightest bit surprised if Minnesota drums Golden State in this particular game. I would have bet that Oklahoma City would win this game by 25 points or more, which is an astonishing amount of a spread in the playoffs. I'm telling you, my 30, 40, 50. I wouldn't be surprised because Denver had nothing to play for. Absolutely nothing. Denver knows that to win this series, they have to win the games at home. Now that's all. That's really all they have to do. Oklahoma City is a wonderful team, but they put themselves in a bind of and they're the better team. They put themselves in a bind because Denver won game one. Was Denver lucky? Sure. They got a last second three. Sure, they were lucky. But they won. They won. So what they have to do now is win home games. That's what they have to do.

Mike Wilbon (6:48)

As a guy who picked OKC all season to win the championship, I would like to disagree with you, but I cannot and I will not. Because you're right about this. I mean, Denver is still right now in control of the series. It didn't matter how many points they won by last night. Oklahoma City 10 or 43 or 53, it didn't matter. And they beat them down. They beat them down to the point where you're wondering out loud whoever you're talking to during the game, when are they going to put their subs in the Nuggets because they got no shot and they may as well start resting People, and that would be in the early third quarter when you could have done that. So I'm with you, Tony. And I wonder how getting beat this badly and embarrassingly will affect the Nuggets. Just like getting beat, even though it was only on a last second shot, that that stung OKC necessarily and productively. But now it swings the other way. We see these wild swings. You and I could go back to wild swings between even the Celtics and Lakers in championship series where teams would just drum each other and it goes back and forth in the playoffs like that. So I think Denver's still in control of the series, even if only narrowly.

Tony Kornheiser (7:56)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, the home teams in this round of the playoffs are currently 1 and 6. The higher seeds are 1 and 6. So maybe Denver can't win at home. But all I'm saying to you, and I know you agree, they have the opportunity to win this series at home. They have the math. They have the math to do it if they want to. We move now, as always lately, to hockey for our third story. Last night, Toronto beat Florida with backup goalie Joseph Wallace substituting for Anthony Stolars. The Leafs now lead the series two nothing. And Dallas Miko Rantanen had his second consecutive playoff hat trick and first against Winnipeg to lead the stars to a 32 opening game win. Wilbon, which was more impressive?

Mike Wilbon (8:43)

Tony, both of these are impressive. I mean, to have consecutive hat tricks, I mean, it's just not done. It's historic. But Tony, I'm going to stick with Toronto. And I've become fascinated, as you know, with Toronto and Edmonton in the Stanley cup playoffs these last few seasons since the Blackhawks haven't been in it, I've become obsessed with them. And Toronto is playing against several things. And this is why I'm going to pick them as having the most impressive evening. They're playing against their long history now of not being able to win, which is. I mean, they're getting Red Sox and Cubs, like, it's just, it's. It's been a long time and they're dealing with that. And the people don't think that's an important thing in and around Toronto, the discussion of it, they'd be wrong. Then they're playing with their own recent inability, even when being the better seed, to get through playoff opponents, that they should get through. Right. And then they're playing against the defending champs. So you're fighting all three of those things. This is a huge mountain. And last night while I was at basketball, I'm trying To peek in to see what they're doing against the Panthers. And it's like, whoa, Toronto's going to win this to go up 2 nothing. I know their home games, but they lost a couple of home games against the Panthers a couple of years ago in the playoffs. So I'm going with the Maple Leafs.

Tony Kornheiser (9:56)

Yeah. In terms of the playoffs, Toronto taking a two nothing lead is a bigger deal than a couple of hat tricks because historically, Florida, when they go down 02, they lose that series. That's happened five times now. So that would mean they could not defend the Stanley cup after this round. And so in terms of the playoffs itself, that is a big deal and a big picture. But this kid goes out and gets two playoff hat tricks in a row. He scores three goals in the third period against Colorado in a game seven, knocks them out. He comes back, he scores three goals in the second period last night. It's a natural hat trick, right? It's all the goals that the team has had. And he does it in 7 minutes and 55 seconds. And you'd think someone on Winnipeg was. Would notice a pattern emerging and say, we gotta get this guy off his game. Right. In the last 12 Dallas playoff goals, this kid has either scored or assisted on him. You think that's a heater. And you know who feels stupid now? The two teams that traded him away this year, Colorado, who he booted from the playoffs, and Carolina. And he may have a chance to get to Carolina in the Stanley cup final. That may work out. Let's take a break. Coming up, did manager Derek Shelton deserve to get fired by the Pirates today? We're gonna ask Buster only.

Mike Wilbon (11:23)

We're also gonna ask him how he makes sense of the numbers that Aaron Judge is putting up right now. Tony, if the Stanley cup final is Edmonton, Toronto, I want to go. I want to go to each of those cities for the Stanley Cup Final.

Tony Kornheiser (11:40)

Well, you have my permission to go. It's okay.

Mike Wilbon (11:42)

You're not coming with me?

Tony Kornheiser (11:45)

No, I'm gonna let you go. You'll call me.

Mike Wilbon (11:47)

Men.

Buster Olney (11:48)

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Mike Wilbon (12:56)

There's nothing more satisfying than finding the perfect green paint for your living room. Except maybe popping open that can of Valspar Ultra and rolling that first smooth.

Buster Olney (13:05)

Stroke on the wall.

Mike Wilbon (13:07)

And there's nothing more satisfying than admiring your freshly painted Wal, except maybe peeling off the painter's tape to see those crisp edges. But the most satisfying part of all? Valspar Ultra's price tag, starting at $29.98 a gallon. Affordable, durable, available at Lowes. Price varies by sheen.

Tony Kornheiser (13:31)

Let'S catch up on baseball with our great friend ESPN Sunday Night Baseball reporter and senior writer Mr. Buster Olney, who, by the way, Wilbond, can milk a cow, can make an actual bagel, and just taught me how to plant potatoes. I'm very excited. Let's start with news from today. Buster The Pirates are 12 and 26. They fired manager Derek Shelton, saying they want to, quote, fix this now, unquote. Has managing been a central issue with the Pirates?

Buster Olney (14:03)

Is this a trick question? Tony what are you kidding? It's about ownership spending money, which they just haven't done. Look, since the start of 2019, the Pittsburgh Pirates have spent about $1.2 billion less than the Dodgers. And that's an absurd comparison because the dodgers are in LA. Since 2019, the Pirates have spent $200 million less than the Milwaukee Brewers. Bob Nutting, the owner came out today and said, look, I want to see a sense of urgency. Bob, how about you stop hoarding your revenue sharing money and spend some money on good players.

Mike Wilbon (14:40)

Sounds like a reasonable solution to us. Buster I'm going to ask you about a guy who talk about money well spent. Aaron Judge is only one for his last 10, but he's still hitting about.400. He's still leading the majors in about Every important offensive category. How do we make of what we're seeing out of Aaron Judge given what we've already seen in recent years?

Buster Olney (15:05)

Michael, it's really simple. He's the best right handed hitter ever. There is a great statistic, adjusted ops which measures players and their production against their peers. Henry Aaron, of course, a great right handed hitter. His career high adjusted OPS was 194. Willie Mays 185. Jimmy Foxx 207. Mike Trout 198. As we're speaking, Aaron Judge's adjusted OPS bless is 249 after hitting.223 last year. And yes, questions about how he's going to do in the postseason. We'll follow him around until he thrives in October. But right now he's the best hitter in baseball and he'd be the unanimous selection again for American League mvp.

Mike Wilbon (15:49)

Wow. Okay, well I got to do one follow up here because I got one name in my head you didn't mention. I'm going to ask you about a comparison off the cuff. Albert Pujols.

Buster Olney (16:01)

Again, in terms of this particular stat. It's not close. I don't have it in front of me. But Albert's. You know, the fact that what we're seeing with Judge is that he's hitting for all that power and for all that average, it's insane. In spring training, ESPN ranked the top 100 players in baseball. We had Aaron Judge fourth. And when I took it around to players to ask them what they thought of it, from Andrew McCutcheon to Tommy Pham, others saying, are you guys crazy? Do you understand what you're watching in Aaron Judge? Is that good?

Mike Wilbon (16:32)

That is great. That's incredible. We're going to switch leagues and move away from Aaron Judge's league to the National League, which appears to have the upper hand on the American League these days. What's your take on what is. Apparently we realize it's still early a disparity, a real disparity.

Buster Olney (16:49)

It's the biggest disparity I've ever seen. It really comes down to spending, which was kicked off by the Dodgers about a decade ago. As the Dodgers grew their payroll, other teams, Padres, Mets, Phillies spent to keep up. Our friend Paul Hembikides dug this out that since the start of the 2018 season, National League spending has increased by 36%. American League spending 8%. This is why you could make a case that the top six or seven teams in baseball are all in the National League.

Tony Kornheiser (17:21)

Alright buster, we'll get you out of Here on this. It does pertain to the American League, though, not the National League. The Red Sox lost their first baseman, Tristan Cassis, for the rest of the season. They had really high hopes for him. What do they do now?

Buster Olney (17:35)

Yeah, and they actually have a whole bunch of options because they have this great wave of prospects coming up from the minor leagues. But I think maybe what they would prefer would be that Rafael Des would knock on the door, manager Alex Corr, and say, hey, all play first base. Now, this is complicated because at the beginning of spring training, the Red Sox signed Alex Bregman and asked Evers to move to dh. Initially said he wouldn't do it and then he agreed to it to become a dh. That would be the perfect fit. And he really should do it as the highest paid guy, as a leader on this team. They're in it to win it this year. And the best way to win it would be with Devers at first base.

Tony Kornheiser (18:15)

That's what I thought you were going to say. That would be silly. That would be a Hollywood ending. If he did well, there really would be. Thank you, Buster. Thank you.

Mike Wilbon (18:23)

Thank you, Buster. Appreciate it.

Buster Olney (18:26)

Thanks, guys.

Tony Kornheiser (18:27)

Let's take one last break. Still to come, will the Capitals get back on track against the Hurricanes tonight?

Mike Wilbon (18:33)

And how will the warriors fare tonight without Stephen Curry?

Tony Kornheiser (18:40)

Did we hear Buster say, good, I'll grow them. You can eat them. But did we hear Buster say that Aaron Judge is the best right handed hitter, right hand hitter ever?

Mike Wilbon (18:52)

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Tony Kornheiser (19:13)

And they do good, too.

Mike Wilbon (19:14)

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Buster Olney (19:31)

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Tony Kornheiser (19:56)

Get in the zone.

Buster Olney (19:57)

Autozone restrictions apply.

Tony Kornheiser (20:03)

Happy time, people. Happy 68th birthday. Bill Cower. It's been 18 years since Kaur left the Pittsburgh Steelers where he won a Super bowl in 2000. 2006 with Ben Roethlisberger as a second year quarterback. Cower was replaced by Mike Tomlin, who's still there. He's the longest tenured coach at the same team in the NFL.

Mike Wilbon (20:22)

Now.

Tony Kornheiser (20:23)

Tomlin won a Super bowl in 2009 with a slightly more experienced Ben Roethlisberger. Cowher went directly to the CBS pregame show and never left Wilbon. Which are the longer odds here? That hall of Fame coach Bill Cower never returned to coaching? Or that Mike Tomlin is still in the the same spot? I thought Coward would be back, didn't you?

Mike Wilbon (20:42)

No. I knew he wasn't Tony. I ran into coward. Downtown Washington D.C. at the Mayflower Hotel across the street for a banquet or something. Cower had heard you say that you always thought he was coming back. And Coach Cower said to me that evening, tell Tony I'm not coming back. I love my life. And we talked about just life. He and I are about the same age and we talked about life outside of this thing you loved all your life. And I was convinced. I've always told you Cower is not coming back. He loves his life. How cool is that?

Tony Kornheiser (21:14)

Yeah, it's pretty cool. I didn't know about it. Happy anniversary, Willis Reed. This is posthumous. But on this day, 55 years ago, the captain, number 19, came out onto the Madison Square Garden floor with a severely bruised thigh and hit his first two shots against Wilkins, Chamberlain and the Los Angeles Lakers. The adrenaline rush from that for every person in the stands and every Knicks player on the court was enough to propel the Knicks to their first of only two NBA championships. It's the greatest moment in Knicks history. So let's hold off declaring Jalen Brunson the greatest Knick of all time. Okay? I was at this game. My Uncle Gene gave me a seat. I think I was in section 117. I wasn't a sports writer yet. It's the best event I ever attended. Strictly as a fan, you know, Tony.

Mike Wilbon (22:00)

It'S one of my earliest memories of the NBA Finals. Watching with my dad and my brother. And let me just tell you this. You know, I'm in New York now. I came back from Boston here this morning. And the feeling around the Knicks, the buzz around the Knicks, you've forgotten because you don't come to these things anymore. The Garden will be a fire on Saturday afternoon for game three of that series at the Celtics. And it makes me think about the great times in the Garden. I make fun of it. I make fun of i95 and all you Nick people. There's just no better place to be than Madison Square Garden when you have one of these huge events.

Tony Kornheiser (22:36)

A melancholy trails to Chet Lemon. The longtime outfielder has passed away at the age of 70 after battling a series of post baseball health issues. Lemon broke into baseball with the White Sox in 1975 at the age of 20 and was a key member of a team Wilbon remembers fondly the 1977 Southside Hitman. Over a 15 year career with the White Sox and Tigers, Lemmon was a three time All Star, hit 300 three times, played superb defense and won a World Series in 1984 when the Tigers topped the Padres.

Mike Wilbon (23:08)

Chet Lemon was in that lineup with Richie Zisk and Oscar Gamble and Eric Soderholm. And it was so entertaining to watch it. It's just so sad to hear he's gone at 70.

Tony Kornheiser (23:18)

Let's go quick to the big finish. Orioles pitcher Charlie morton gave up three runs in four innings. He's now own seven on the season. Your thoughts?

Mike Wilbon (23:26)

938 ERA across six starts to gave him $15 million this offseason. At 41 years old, Giancarlo Stanton says he could return to the Yanks lineup by the end of the month. Is that significant?

Tony Kornheiser (23:37)

Yeah, he hit great last year. Tennis elbow.

Mike Wilbon (23:39)

So weird.

Tony Kornheiser (23:40)

The Mavs fired key members of their training staff. What does that say to you?

Mike Wilbon (23:44)

Oh, it's just everybody. It's all Luca related. You can sort through it if you want. I'm not going to waste my time. It's all Luca related. NHL game twos tonight. Canes, Caps, Oilers, Knights. Pick your winners.

Tony Kornheiser (23:57)

Capitals. Capitals. Last one. Warriors and Wolves. Game two tonight. Who you got?

Mike Wilbon (24:03)

I give the Warriors a puncher's chance, but the Wolves have to come back to win this.

Tony Kornheiser (24:10)

Warriors are not going to win that game. We are out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. And I'm Tony Kornheiser.

Mike Wilbon (24:15)

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, Knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the app. Apple podcast. Tony, if the Pope is from Chicago, what does this mean for the Cubs, the Bears, the Bulls and even the White Sox? What does this mean?

Tony Kornheiser (24:28)

How about you think he's a Cubs fan?

Buster Olney (24:31)

In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.