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- [00:01]
Celsius Energy Drink
5:00Am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius Live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com.
- [00:26]
Mike Wilbon
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Jacques Cousteau Day. Ton, are you an ocean guy?
- [00:34]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. Oh yeah. I love to be gasping for air around things that are trying to eat me.
- [00:40]
Mike Wilbon
Sure.
- [00:41]
Tony Kornheiser
Love the ocean.
- [00:42]
Mike Wilbon
Okay, no, let's have full disclosure. You live partially at the ocean. What are you talking about?
- [00:49]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I like to look at the ocean. I don't like to be in the ocean.
- [00:55]
Mike Wilbon
I hear you.
- [00:56]
Tony Kornheiser
Big difference. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, the Knicks get shut down by three teams. Us men get drubbed by Switzerland and Brando. Chambly joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with tonight's game three of the NBA Finals. The series has moved to Indiana. The first two games of the series were dominated through three quarters by Oklahoma City. In game one, Indiana bounced back and won on a dramatic shot by Tyrese Halliburton. In Game 2, Oklahoma City did not take its foot off the gas. Wilbon, do you expect the Pacers to win game three at home?
- [01:30]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah, Tony, I think I do. And people have to understand and they don't because they are now tied a couple of generations worth to meaningless numbers. And they don't look at the ebb and flow of athletic competition. And it goes back and forth and sometimes they're wild swings back and forth. You can go back to Wilt and Russell and even their series didn't always swing wildly because Russell won them. But, but then Bird and Magic and there were series where Michael Jordan would win the series but the up 30 against Seattle, they would give up 2. And you'd have, you have this all the time in a series of games in all the sports. And basketball is even more notable, I think. And it's easy to achieve because so few people control the action. Mr. Halliburton, I believe he will bounce back. I believe his coach, Rick Carlisle, who has been like a wizard with will help him bounce back. I believe human nature will lead Oklahoma City to in some ways say, you know, we're gonna, we got this tonight. Except you don't exactly have it just yet. And I think all that will wind up with some close and probably crazy dramatic Pacer victory at home. I just. I think that. Yes, what I think. I think. I think.
- [02:45]
Tony Kornheiser
We disagree. I do not think Indiana will win tonight. And I somehow find myself believing that Game three is going to be a critical game in this series. I've watched Oklahoma City basically dismantle Indiana through 36 minutes of game one and through 36 minutes of game two. And I give Indiana all the credit in the world for winning Game one. But, Mike, what I've seen indicates to me that Oklahoma City has figured out Indiana more than Indiana has figured out Oklahoma City. And I could be wrong about this. I could be. But I think that Indiana derives and starts with. Derives everything and starts with Halliburton all the time. And he was held to 13 shots in game two. And Pascal Siakam was held to 11 shots in game two by the best defense in the league. They have to shoot more. They have to score more. Going into this series, they had averaged 29 shots between them. I don't think that's a meaningless statistic. This one is. Halliburton had this fantastic ratio of 9 to 1 assists to turnovers in the playoffs until Oklahoma City. Now, in these two games, he's got 12 assists and eight turnovers. That's one and a half to one. So again, I hope. But I think Oklahoma City has figured them out. I do.
- [04:09]
Mike Wilbon
Tony. Tony, I don't disagree with you in the. In the main, I'm not picking the Pacers to win the series. I still have OKC winning the series. But tonight. And by the way, I know that Halliburton reportedly has some lower leg. I don't want to hear that on the anniversary of the flu game. I don't want to hear about a lower. Everybody's got something this time of year. I expect Halliburton will be great whether they win or not. I think he will bounce back. Tom Thibodeau is starting to look like a difficult man to replace. Mark Stein and Shams, among others, are reporting that the Mavericks have turned down the Knicks request to talk to Jason Kidd. And Shams reports that the Rockets have done the same with IME Udoka and the T Wolves with Chris Finch. Tone, what word would you use to describe the Knicks search for a new head coach?
- [05:01]
Tony Kornheiser
I would use the word arrogant. How dare the Knicks be arrogant enough to just think they can swoop in and get a coach who is hello and employed somewhere else? What do Udoka and Kidd and Finch have in Common. They're employed by other teams, playoff teams, they're paid by other owners. So the Knicks feel what, like we're New York and we're big and we're great, and so you're going to want to work for us. And why do we have to pay attention to rules? I don't think it works that way. This is sort of unbelievable to me, Mike. And as you know, I grew up a Knicks fan, but this is a team that won a championship for the last time 62 years ago. And they think that their name is such a big deal that everyone wants to coach there. Well, not everyone. Jay Wright didn't want to coach there, Mike. I think if they get one of these three guys and one of these three guys wants them going to have to do it by trade. And this, you know, they're not going to swoop in like a pack of birds. And this leads me to the thing I've said for the last two days about this story. Okay, why would you want to go work for Dolan? Why? He just fired a guy who took his team to the conference finals for the first time like over 20 years. And why would you work for a guy like Leon Rose who just let his former client go down the drain?
- [06:25]
Mike Wilbon
By the way, I love it that you made it 62 years, but it's been 52. I'm sure your friend Clyde Frazier, who often watches us, is saying, tony, you were there. Don't make it 62. 52's long enough.
- [06:37]
Tony Kornheiser
It feels like 62. I'm sure. I feel it's like 62. I wish.
- [06:43]
Mike Wilbon
I'm not gonna disagree with you on any of that. And as a matter of fact, I'm gonna applaud you because your depiction of New York arrogance, I know it's confined to this one thing. That's the way most of us feel about New Yorkers all the damn time. They're so arrogant. They look at the world and say, well, yeah, you just wanna be here. And yeah, that's what I think of you people all of my life. And it is more than 60 years, but I was so well done by you. I said I'd hug you if I was there. I got nothing to add to that. Cuz I think you. I think you slayed that just now. You killed it. Golf clap for the U.S. open. You're tone, you're right.
- [07:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Thank you.
- [07:24]
Mike Wilbon
And they gotta go to. They gotta go to plan B. You know they had a plan B.
- [07:27]
Tony Kornheiser
They do.
- [07:28]
Mike Wilbon
You know, they got some plan NBA.
- [07:29]
Tony Kornheiser
Do of course, let's turn to baseball and the intriguing possibility that Paul Skeens of Pittsburgh could win the National League Cy Young with a losing record. Skeens is 4 and 6 at the moment, but his ERA is 188, second in the national League to code Kodai Senga of the Mets. And Skeens has the top WHIP and the top batting average against Wilbon. Could you see Skeens winning the side with a losing record?
- [07:52]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah. Yeah. Because over the last 20 years, Tony, as you and I have agonizingly talked about on this here show, we were writing columns about it slightly before that. People have won the side with like 11 and 10 and 13 and 10. The voters today, just like the two generations I, you know, tried to rip earlier in this show already of people who are obsessed with certain numbers. Well, one of them is not winning and losing. The voters today, they're not our age. Overwhelmingly, there might be a handful of people left. Winning and losing is secondary to them. They are impressed with numbers that show other things. We were impressed. I've always been impressed with earned run average, not as much as winning the damn game. And they were impressed with war, and they're impressed with whip, and they're impressed with things that were not used to judge Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson. And those are the things I care about. But they. I don't vote. They vote now. I used to and now. Yeah. So, yes, the answer is, I believe now somebody's going to go 12 and 12. And Skeens is great. He deserves everything he gets. His team doesn't even try to come in with offensive players or change the philosophy. He's. He's in purgatory. But, yeah, a team with a losing. A guy with a losing record is going to win this side. It's going to happen.
- [09:11]
Tony Kornheiser
This is where being as old as we are doesn't really help us, because the Cy Young now is not the Cy Young then. And by then, I mean that period of time where pitchers always went nine and everybody won 20. In 1978, four guys in the American League won 20 or more games. Okay, so it was Jim Palmer, Ron Guidry, Mike Caldwell and Dennis Eckersley. The last time two people in the majors won just two won 20 games was 2019. Mike. Last year, nobody won 20 games. Tarek Skubal, great pitcher Chris Sale, they won 18 games and they each won a sigh as a result. I'll give you this one number on Skeens because I agree with you. Eventually it's going to go to somebody. First of all, his team stinks. The Pirates don't hit. Does they score the second least runs in all of the majors? In his last eight starts, Mike, he's given up nine runs in 53 innings and his record is one and four. So what's he supposed to do? What's he supposed to do? Let's take a break. Coming up, the US Open tees off tomorrow at Oakmont. Should we expect more of the same out of Scottie Scheffler? We're going to ask Randall Chamblee of the Golf Channel.
- [10:26]
Mike Wilbon
Speaking of Pittsburgh, we're also asking why Rory has struggled so much after losing his touch with the driver. Don't fire up the Pirates as they come to Wrigley for four games starting them. I don't, don't do that. I'm just saying. But he's going to go skin, we're going to go bury bonds. He's going to bail.
- [10:41]
Tony Kornheiser
We're the last people on earth who believe in W's.
- [10:45]
Brandle Chamblee
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- [12:34]
Tony Kornheiser
A PTI investigation has revealed that the US Open tees off tomorrow at Oakmont in Western Pennsylvania, which is where we find Golf channel studio analyst Mr. Brandle Chamblee. Brand, let's start with this. Oakmont is so hard, and it is deliberately hard. Over the last nine US Opens there, only 27 players in total finished under par. How does it look this time to you? And are you a fan of restoring the challenges of punishing US Opens that you get at Oakmont?
- [13:07]
Randall Chamblee
Yeah, I think this might be the most pugnacious Oakmont that we've ever seen. You could go back to 2007 when it played firm and fast. But even when I go back and look at the video there, the rough here looks like it's denser, meaner, and more brutal. So, you know, if this thing dries out, I've heard some people talking about winning scores of. It sounds crazy, but I've heard people talking about winning scores of double digits over par. I don't think it'd be bad that bad. But if you want to see 20 under par, you better, you better turn the channel. And yes, of course, there should be some restoration to, to keep the punch into these golf course. This course was built on the legacy of being pugnacious. You don't want this place sort of coddling players. And, you know, when I came out on tour eons ago, every golfer kind of looked like me. You know, they were 5 foot 9, about 155 pounds. Now, they all look like speed swimmers. They're 6'3, 185, and they hit the ball, you know, forever. So you want some punch to the golf course. And Gil Hans did the restoration, and I think they've done it.
- [14:03]
Mike Wilbon
One of those guys you could be describing is Scotty Scheffler. And Tony and I play this, this game. Over the decades of who's usually associated with Tiger, who you got, Tiger or the field. And now it's become who you got, Scotty or the field. Brando. I'm taking the field. Still, am I wrong? Does Sheffler's game set up that well for Oakbot?
- [14:26]
Randall Chamblee
Well, you know, Tiger, even at his best one, about 40% of the time, mindboggling figures, because 3% will get you in the hall of Fame, but the field was always the better bet. So, yes, the field's the better bet this week against Scotty Scheffler. Having said that, last time, I look at the odds, they were a little better than, than 3 to 1. They were approaching 2 to 1, which is certainly Tiger woods territory. But I think the question is, which five guys would you put in a bucket as an aggregate to challenge Scotty Scheffler? I think this could be Scotty Scheffler's 2000 U.S. open week. He could win by 10, 12, 15 shots. He's sneaking up on that. Last few tournaments, he's won by eight, he's won by five. You know, he's winning by multiple shots, and he's not exactly played his best. So the field's a better bet. But I wouldn't bet on any group of five players in the aggregate to beat Scotty Scheffler this week.
- [15:15]
Mike Wilbon
Let's move to another big name who was involved in his own little drama right now, and that would be Rory and his driver and the struggles with it. I mean, he's. He won, he won, he won. And then the driver is like he's, you know, some weekend player. Randall, what's going on with that? And do you expect him to get it fixed by tomorrow?
- [15:37]
Randall Chamblee
Yeah, I mean, we, we talk about how poorly Rory's been driving, and imagine if Steph Curry played four or five games and couldn't make a three. Well, he dribbles well. He does everything else well. We had to make a three. It sort of sets everything up, and it sets everything up for Rory. Rory's immensely talented in every other aspect of the game, but he's driven the ball just atrociously and it's mind boggling because he drove the ball so beautifully at Augusta National. And there's been people saying, wrongly, but nonetheless saying that he's the best driver of the golf ball over the last three or four years. That's not right. It's Scotty, but Rory's certainly one of the best and it sets up his whole game. But he's just been driving it. He's been hitting around 40% of the fairways, making big numbers. But it's. To me, it's. It's not so much the form that's off as, to me, it's the focus. If you've heard what Rory's been saying in the media center about how it's hard to go out and practice three or four hours, that he doesn't have any Clear goals to sort of aim at over the next three or four years. I, I was saying last night on the show, look, Rory's everybody's favorite interview. He's loads of people's favorite golfer. I certainly love him. But if you're a coach and you had a quarterback saying that kind of stuff, you'd bench him. You're like, you know, you've got no direction. You know, you're going to let the team down without that kind of focus. So I understand it, you know, if it were me, yeah, I'd want to take a victory lap for a year, maybe, I don't know. But we don't tune into sports to watch people do normal things. We tune in to sports to have our minds blown. And we have a guy in Rory who, I was joking. He was put on this earth like Michelangelo was put on this earth to carve stone. Rory was put on this earth to play golf. He's the most mind blowing, gorgeous, lyrical golfer that we've seen in the last 20, 30 years, outside of Tiger Woods. And to see him fall off this precipitously, it's tough to get your arms around.
- [17:18]
Tony Kornheiser
We will get you out of here on this. I mean, Mike and I feel the same way about Rory. I mean, we thought once you win the Masters, you're going to win six or eight more majors, like, they're just going to roll out to you. And it hasn't worked. But I will say this. Eight of the nine winners at the US Open at Oakmont, eight of the nine are multiple major winners. That's impressive. What does it take? You've been there, you probably played Oakmont. What does it take to win at this golf course?
- [17:49]
Randall Chamblee
Yeah, everything is what it takes. So, you know, everybody loves Augusta national for the rolling fairways and the difficulty of the greens. So if you imagine Augusta national with 30 yard wide fairways and 5 inch rough protecting the holes, that's kind of what you have here. Because it's difficult to find another golf course with as much roll in the fairways, with as much undulation and speed on the greens. But you add more difficult bunkers here, more difficult rough, and that's kind of where you're at. So it's asking you for the hardest thing to do in golf. Long and straight shots and then high and soft iron shots, and then to keep your wits about you when you're facing oblivion. Because bunkers, you know, shots are going to roll up under these lips of bunkers. Guys are going to get in these ditches out here. Which are everywhere and they got 18 inch fescue in it. So you're going to have to keep your wits about you. Dustin made one double bogey en route to winning here in 16 on hill. Didn't make one. To trespass around this place without making big numbers is exceedingly difficult. You got to be great, but you got to keep your wits about you.
- [18:53]
Tony Kornheiser
Randall, great pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- [18:56]
Mike Wilbon
Appreciate it.
- [18:57]
Randall Chamblee
A real pleasure talking to you both. Congratulations on a long, awesome career. Michael, I hope I see you back in Scottsdale. Tony, you should get there. It's a beautiful spot.
- [19:06]
Mike Wilbon
Amen.
- [19:08]
Tony Kornheiser
You can catch more brandle on Golf Channel's Golf Central live from the U.S. open starting at 7 Eastern. We'll take one last break. But still to come, Shohei's timeline for getting back on the mound could be moving up. Wilbon.
- [19:21]
Mike Wilbon
And what does the US Men dismal loss to Switzerland last night mean for the team's future? You don't believe me when I tell you how great it is here, but you'll believe Brandle, hopefully. Come on out.
- [19:32]
Tony Kornheiser
I do. I've been there. Welcome. I just haven't had corn chowder. It fills like you were talking about.
- [19:40]
Brandle Chamblee
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- [20:34]
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- [21:06]
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- [21:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 66th birthday. Mike Davis who? Mike Davis, the former outfielder for the Oakland A's and Los Angeles Dodgers. Davis played 10 seasons, hit.259 with 91 homers. But that's not why we are saluting him. We are saluting Davis because in Game 1 of the 1988 World Series, with the Dodgers down one run in the bottom of the ninth, Davis went in as a pinch hitter and drew a two out walk from Dennis Eckersley. Then he stalled second. That doesn't matter. What matters is that the walk prolonged the inning so that Kirk Gibson could hit one of the most famous home runs in World Series history. The I don't believe what I Just saw Walk off home run One of.
- [21:56]
Mike Wilbon
Us got on a plane and left the Seoul Olympics and flew to LA to watch those games in person while the other one of us went with his pals on vacation to China. Wasn't it even in the United States when the rest of us couldn't believe what we just saw? Wonder if people want to match up that description of who's who.
- [22:15]
Tony Kornheiser
One of us is smarter than the other one of us. Happy Anniversary Cleveland Baseball on this day 16 years ago, Cleveland beat Kansas City on an assist from a seagull when a single dissenter by Shin Tzu Chew deflected off the bird got past Royals outfielder Coco Crisp for the winning run in the bottom of the 10th. It became a wing assisted walk off of sorts. Crew chief Mike Riley explained that a ball hitting a bird is in play wherever it lands. In 1983, Dave Winfield threw a ball that killed a seagull in Toronto. An exhibition game in 2001, Randy Johnson threw a pitch that killed a dove. Birds are drawn to baseball fields because there's shelter in the rafters and snack scraps and insects on the field to eat.
- [22:58]
Mike Wilbon
Now you got me thinking all sorts of bad thoughts about birds. Remember those doves at the Seoul Olympics at the opening ceremony?
- [23:05]
Tony Kornheiser
And what happened didn't work out well for them. Didn't work out well. I remember that. Happy trails to last night's game for the US men's national soccer team. Switzerland scored four times in the first 40 minutes of last night's friendly in Nashville. And that's all it needed as the US didn't even record a ship shot on target. Fans booed as the U.S. lost its fourth straight home game for the first time since 1988. It should be noted that the U.S. was fielding what amounted to a C squad against Switzerland's A team. But that's also part of the problem. The country's top players need to gel with just one year until the start of the World cup and now just days until Sunday start of the Gold Cup.
- [23:47]
Mike Wilbon
Anxiety is running high. Tony, in your favorite of all sports communities, the soccer community, over our chances next summer. Just saying.
- [23:58]
Tony Kornheiser
We'll see. We'll see. Let's go to the big finish. Aaron Judd hit a 469 foot home run and a win at Royal Stadium last night. Are you impressed?
- [24:07]
Mike Wilbon
No, I'm impressed by Aaron Judge and a million things he does. These stupid numbers on home runs aren't part of that. Shohei threw 44 pitches over three simulated innings yesterday. Is that significant?
- [24:19]
Tony Kornheiser
Significant because it gets him closer to pitching. But his manager said he's not pitching before the All Star Game. Stop it. Kevin Durant's business partner in the Suns reportedly running through possible trade scenarios. Your thoughts?
- [24:31]
Mike Wilbon
Rocket, Spurs, Heat, T, Wolves, Knicks. They're all sported in the conversation. Houston Kind of like that. Robbie Ray of the Giants can join max freed at 91 tonight. Do you like him? His chances?
- [24:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, he's playing the Colorado Rockies. They're no good. Last one. The Oilers have not yet decided whether to start Stuart Skinner or backup Calvin Pickard. Choose for them.
- [24:53]
Commercial Voice
Skinner.
- [24:54]
Mike Wilbon
He was pulled after allowing five goals in game three. I'm putting Skinner back in there. Oilers can win this game.
- [25:01]
Tony Kornheiser
We are out of time. We will try and do better the next time. Brian Wilson, rest in peace.
- [25:07]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbach. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the ESPN app or Apple Podcasts.
- [25:14]
Tony Kornheiser
And now.
- [25:16]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies. The savants. The ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness. Always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied.
- [25:35]
Mike Wilbon
He.
- [25:35]
Damian Lillard
He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota, a New generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.