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- [00:02]
Commercial Narrator
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- [00:32]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre. NASA wants to re add Pluto as a planet. Tony. You have a problem with Pluto?
- [00:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony Kornheiser, I'm good with Pluto. Not a fan of Uranus?
- [00:44]
Taylor Twellman
No.
- [00:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Let me ask you a serious question. Pluto is no longer a planet. What is it? If it's not a planet, what is
- [00:52]
Pablo Torre
is a suburb of the Milky Way, I believe it is not technically inside the bounds. The real estate is cheaper, which is a good benefit, but it's tough. Less prestigious.
- [01:03]
Tony Kornheiser
A suburb. Tremendous. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilbon apparently could not be bothered today, so I am joined by our great friend, the host of the podcast. Pablo Torre finds out. Mr. Pablo Torre. Cheers are great. And let's begin with the US Open, which got underway this morning at Shinnecock Hills on Long Island. Baby. Rory McIlroy was an early leader at 3 under before two bogeys dropped him back to 1 under, which remains near the top of the leaderboard. Scottie Scheffler is down the board after shooting two over Pablo. What was your biggest takeaway so far?
- [01:40]
Pablo Torre
So I keep it at a pretty top level view, Tony, unlike you, I was not watching this all day. And so if I'm playing the role of Tony Kornheiser's newspaper editor, I'm saying the people want to know about Rory McIlroy. And it turns out that Shinnecock won him versus the course. The winds off of the Atlantic at Shinnecock. They got the best of him towards the end. And so my psychological evaluation of Rory is it's gonna be very interesting to see whether the course continues to beat him. And Scotty Scheffler, of course, we know how he feels about the existentialism of winning, but Rory's the guy that I say, Tony, tell me the Rory column that you got on your mind.
- [02:17]
Tony Kornheiser
I'll tell you all about Rory. I just wanna explain first that I started watching about 9 in the morning. I probably watched for 5 or. And like you, I agree that the course won and that the weather won. You know, I Mean, especially early in the morning, it was, like, really damp and really windy. There was no sun at all. I think they had to postpone for a little while. I will say this, that what you did not see because of how tough the course is, what you did not see was birdie runs. Like three birdies in a row or four in six holes. Mostly what you saw were great players trying to make par saves and par saves. A US Open par save is when you're 30 yards off the green and then you have to get up and down. And Rory had to do that, and Oberg had to do that, and Fleetwood had to do that, and Scheffler had to do it. And to varying degrees, they did, and they did not do that. The other thing that struck me right away at about 10 in the morning was everybody was wearing a sweater. Okay? I mean, these are the Hamptons. This is a beach resort.
- [03:18]
Taylor Twellman
This.
- [03:18]
Tony Kornheiser
This is the middle of June. Everybody was wearing a sweater. Tommy Fleetwood was wearing a cardigan. I haven't seen a golfer in a cardigan for 40 years. But thank God he wasn't wearing the jean jacket that Wilbon wore yesterday. And now I will get to Rory because, I mean, there is a whole fleet of people that are still on that golf course. So we don't know what the winning score is going to be getting out of today. Pointing. He finished bogey. Bogey. He was minus three. He eagled. He started on the back and then went to the front side. He eagled number five, which was playing today as the easiest hole on the course. He eagled that to go to minus three, and then made a couple of great par saves. But again, finished bogey. Bogey, but on the eagle. This is important. You don't play golf. You won't be just starstruck.
- [04:09]
Pablo Torre
Making my dad proud.
- [04:10]
Tony Kornheiser
He was 194 yards out of. 194 out on the second shot. He hit pitching wedge. Are you kidding me? He hit and he hit it to 8.
- [04:20]
Pablo Torre
Do you have him winning this? Do you have him winning this? Tony, are you confident in saying that Rory's going to be the guy that you like?
- [04:27]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm not going to be confident. The hardest thing to do is to win a golf tournament. It's not like tennis, where they put one person in front of you. You just have to beat them. But I think Rory will be in it, because Rory, in the majors in recent years has not necessarily had a great first round. This is a very good first round. That is a hard track. People don't Go under par. They just don't. Let's move to the New York Knicks and the parade they are having today in New York City in honor of their NBA championship. Yesterday, the owner of the Knicks, James Dolan, was asked if he wanted to bring back the entire roster for next year. And Dolan told wfan, if we could bring back the whole team exactly as it was, why wouldn't you? But I don't know if we're going to be able to. We're willing to stretch, but there are certain things in the NBA that you'd have to be suicidal to do. One of them is called the second apron. Cannot go into the second apron, unquote. Pablo, does that rain on the parade?
- [05:22]
Pablo Torre
So this is what I've been doing today. I've been navigating downtown Manhattan amid all of the overflow from this parade. And it reminds me of the conversation we just had. James Dolan typically is the course, and the course tends to win. And so for me, I wonder, when he speaks, does he know that there is an immediate, immediate impact upon a fan base that is thinking to themselves, does this mean we're not keeping Mitchell Robinson? Does this mean we're not keeping Landry Shammit? Does this mean we're losing Jose Alvarado? Because that's what is immediately in the minds of everyone listening to the guy who is winning the thing that everyone's been waiting for for 53 years. And so the follow up question is, when James Dolan says, I'll write as big a check as I can, does he realize that the second apron still allows him to do that? It's just gonna cost him more. And so I don't believe this is James Dolan playing 3D chess. I don't believe this is him negotiating with the agents of Alvarado and Shamon and Mitchell Robinson. I think this is him being frustrated verbally at a time of otherwise transcendent celebration. And I wish he hadn't said it. Frankly, I don't think it helps anything.
- [06:30]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, well, he was asked a direct question and he gave a direct answer. He gave the kind of answer that an owner often gives, which is a pocketbook answer. Yeah, I just want to make a couple of things clear here. Those are the names that are bandied about Shamet and Mitchell Robinson, who cannot hit any foul shots and plays about 15 minutes of defense, you know, and Alvarado, who became a fan favorite. They're not getting rid of Jalen Brunson. They're not getting rid of any of the starters. They're getting rid of fringe players. They are substitutes. You can replace substitutes with other substitutes or draft picks or free agents who sign for the minimum, which is what I believe Shamet had done originally. I mean, look, the Knicks story is a great story. It's the greatest comeback ever. Over an extended period of time, that story is written. You got to get on to the next story. You're talking about getting rid of some substitutes. You're not talking about destroying the greatness of the starting team. Right.
- [07:30]
Pablo Torre
Well, but the thing about what the second apron is is this very onerous penalty for spending beyond a certain threshold, especially if you do it several years in a row. And so the question is, if you're a championship defending team, don't you want to pay the premium to keep the thing that just blew through the playoffs together? Tony, if I look, I'm not here to tell Jim Dolan, hey, I know how to spend your money better than you do. I'm here to say if there's ever a moment to spend the money, it is this one. And I hope that he does for the sake of a city that clearly is feeling a way that it has never felt before, at least since you were watching the Knicks win a title in 73. So I'd like to, yeah, they felt
- [08:11]
Tony Kornheiser
that way then, but it's a long, it's a long time ago. I mean, I would just say about this that this is the way sports work in salary cap situations. You can't keep everybody. Everybody understands that. That's why the NBA has had eight different champions in the last eight years. I think you shed a tear and you move on. That's what I think.
- [08:29]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Well, I want to turn to the NFL because instead of tears, Joe Burrow is talking trash. Well, he's complimenting his Bengals. Really. The quarterback told reporters yesterday that this year Cincinnati team feels similar to his 2019 national championship squad at LSU, adding, quote, there's so much greatness that we're going to be able to achieve this year and I'm just excited to get going, end quote. Sort of sending a signal to the rest of the NFL. Tony so is his chestiness here, is it a good sign or a bad sign for the Bengals?
- [08:59]
Tony Kornheiser
It's not a good sign. It's a great sign. He is saying, put this on me. He is giving cover to every other player on the Cincinnati Bengals. He may as well have said, bring it on, put it on me. It's okay. This is what you want in a quarterback. You want someone who takes responsibility for, for Everything that the team does. And by the way, in his history, he won A championship at LSU. The team averaged 48 points a game. And he threw get these numbers, 60 touchdown passes and six interceptions. And then he came into the NFL with Cincinnati. And in his second year, he went to the Super Bowl. This is not Lamar Jackson who doesn't win in the playoffs. This is not Dak Prescott who gets paid billions of dollars, doesn't win the playoffs. It's not Justin Herbert and everybody says has the most beautiful arm in the history of the world, doesn't win in the playoffs. Lamar Jackson 3 and 5 in the playoffs, Dak Prescott 2 and 5, Justin Herbert 0 and 3 and Joe Burrow 5 and 2. Case closed. I'd be rolling with that guy.
- [09:58]
Pablo Torre
Well, the other thing about this is the problem has been along the defensive line and the offensive line. They heavily invest in the defensive line. Now the offensive line has become a strength quietly, especially in the second half of last season. They're running the ball. They're protecting Joe Burrow. If not now, when? That's a bit of the through line in the last two topics for me. Joe Burrow saying, this is the appropriate amount of pressure because there should be no ambiguity that we are set up to do the thing that I've been chasing since I was in college and everything else that has happened to this point. You can play out all of the iterations. She's hurt. They're not helping him. All that stuff. You. He is healthy and he's being helped. So it's time to deliver on the promise. Because everyone else in the AFC especially, they know how good Joe Burrow can be. He's merely stating the obvious at this point.
- [10:46]
Tony Kornheiser
So let's look at their division for a second. Okay? It occurs to me that Baltimore with a new coach, Pittsburgh with a new coach, they may be taking a downward turn and Cleveland is a clown show and has been that way for a while. Joe Burrow, when there was no defense at all, would put up 35 and 38 and 42 and the defense would allow 45. For him to go out in the street now and say, I like everything about this. That should tell people the long shot is Cincinnati right now. It's not Buffalo anymore. They don't get there. You can't ever discount Kansas City. Mahomes comes back, he's healthy. Mahomes is great. But don't you look at Cincinnati. Don't you say to yourself, I actually want them to do well. I want to see this guy back up his mouth, don't you?
- [11:33]
Pablo Torre
Joe Burrow in college and Joe Burrow, when healthy, has been not just charismatic as this character in the NFL, he's been as good a pocket passer as there exists in the sport. He is perennially an MVP candidate. And so if he's upright, they should be reminding him of what he was in college. He should be better than he was in college at that point.
- [11:53]
Tony Kornheiser
Now let's take a break. Coming up, how does the United States men's team match up against Australia? We're going to ask Taylor Twellman.
- [12:00]
Pablo Torre
We will also ask him whether he's seen anything so far that's reshaped his view of how the World cup plays out.
- [12:07]
Tony Kornheiser
194 with a pitching wedge. That's three shots for me with a three wood. 194 with a pitching. Did I give you enough on Rory?
- [12:15]
Pablo Torre
How, how have you done at Shinnecock? What's your history on that course?
- [12:19]
Tony Kornheiser
I didn't break a hundred. I played once. I didn't break 100.
- [12:23]
Pablo Torre
Now that's, that's not good.
- [12:24]
Tony Kornheiser
And it wasn't windy. It wasn't windy. No, it was beautiful.
- [12:28]
Commercial Narrator
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- [13:30]
Tony Kornheiser
The United States men's World cup team is back on the pitch tomorrow, which means we've got questions for our great friend, the lead analyst for MLS on Apple TV, Mr. Taylor Twelman. See, I said pitch. I'm really, I'm so soccer oriented. You're on top of that. Everyone says that the United States team beat Paraguay 4 1. Everybody said they looked absolutely great. But if the United States team had to Work on anything. Taylor, what would that one thing be?
- [13:57]
Taylor Twellman
Replication of the exact same thing they did against Paraguay. And I know it's not something from the game, but it's the ability to duplicate that. It's the ability to compound your momentum. It's the ability to do the exact same thing because. And we'll get into this in a moment. There's a lot of similarities between the opponents, but the United States men have always had a difficult time of mirroring the performance with the occasion. And that's exactly what they did in Paraguay. Now the expectation levels a little higher, the excitement levels a little higher.
- [14:31]
Tony Kornheiser
The one thing they have to work
- [14:32]
Taylor Twellman
on is, can you do that again? That's what everybody's going to be paying attention in Seattle.
- [14:39]
Pablo Torre
Well, tomorrow the US Gets Australia. Australia just had a pretty strong performance, performance of its own. They shut out Turkey. And so the matchup, Taylor, between the US And Australia, what are you seeing? How do they actually conform to each other?
- [14:52]
Taylor Twellman
Pablo? It's interesting. They're very similar to Paraguay. They'll be a little bit more defensive. Paraguay only gave up six goals in World cup qualifying. If you watch the Turkey against Australia game, Australia puts a lot of numbers behind the ball. The difference is this. Australia has two options on the counter. So when they defend, they almost bait and switch you. They almost get you to believe that you're dictating the game. Turkey had had over 20 shots in the game, but they've got two players that can absolutely run. They can test the back line. I think the captain, Tim Ream, if he starts, he's going to have his hands full defending in transition. However, In October of 2025, the United States beat Australia 2 1. So if they're on the front foot, if they're dictating the game at the tempo they want to play, the United States should win.
- [15:43]
Pablo Torre
So you mentioned the bait and switch dynamic. All of these teams have now played at least one game. What has changed? What has surprised you in terms of what this field might actually look like at the end here? What's changing? What are you updating in terms of your priors?
- [15:57]
Taylor Twellman
Two things. One, this may be the best Golden Boot race in World cup history. When you have stars deliver like Mbappe Holland Messi, Harry Kane in the opening game, that is a direct statement that they're up for the moment. And that is a rarity to have players like that immediately answer the bell. Keep in mind, Florian Baligan's also in that conversation for the United States. The other one is this a little slow From Spain, from France, the heavy favorites. Brazil doesn't look like a contender at all, but I remind everyone, 2022, Argentina
- [16:33]
Tony Kornheiser
won the World Cup.
- [16:34]
Taylor Twellman
They lost their opening game against Saudi Arabia. The second game for teams. Pablo is where you can really tell if they can rectify the situation. Get the train on tracks. Or is this going to be a slog for some of those heavy favorites?
- [16:51]
Tony Kornheiser
We will get you out of here on this. Thank you for mentioning those stars who answered the bell. One who did not was Cristiano Ronaldo of Portugal, who, if I'm not mistaken, is over 40 at the moment, even older than Messi. I think I have that right. Is Portugal being too loyal to him?
- [17:10]
Taylor Twellman
It's a good question, Tony. It is. He's the oldest field player to ever play in a World cup. But for the last 10 major tournament games for Portugal, he doesn't have a goal. And he doesn't have a goal from the run of Play. That's over 1,000 minutes. For the last eight months, I've been telling anyone that wants to listen that I think Portugal, and it's not really that hot of a take, has the best midfield in the world. But in order to be the best midfield in the world, the front three have to have fluidity and mobility. Those are two things that Ronaldo doesn't have at age 41 right now. And if he was willing to accept being a super sub off the bench, then I think Portugal is in the running to maybe win this tournament. But what I saw in the opening game, they should have won the game. If Ronaldo allows the ball to slide to Bruno Fernandez and he scores the goal. The reality is this. It's about me, not we. When it comes to Ronaldo, 99 out of 100 times and age 41, I don't think Portugal can afford that anymore.
- [18:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Me and not we, that's me. 100 out of 100 times, not 99. Thank you, Taylor. Thanks as always. Thank you.
- [18:24]
Pablo Torre
Thank you.
- [18:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Let's take one last break. Still to come, what does Trae Young's opt out mean for the Wizards? What a mess that is.
- [18:32]
Pablo Torre
Why have the Yankees. What are the Yankees here in New York, Tony? Why have they been succeeding without Aaron Judge? Avoiding messes in this case?
- [18:42]
Tony Kornheiser
Taylor Twelman told me before we went on that he has played Shinnecock, where the Open is, obviously, and did very well.
- [18:50]
Pablo Torre
Dominated.
- [18:51]
Tony Kornheiser
He's a really good golfer. He's a really good golfer.
- [18:56]
Pablo Torre
So he's too many.
- [18:57]
Tony Kornheiser
He's good at too many things. He's good at too many things.
- [19:01]
Pablo Torre
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- [19:34]
Commercial Narrator
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- [20:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 46th birthday. Antonio Gates, the Hall of Fame tight end spent all 16 of his NFL seasons with the Chargers in San Diego and Los Angeles. Gates caught most of his passes from Phillip rivers. Among those 955 catches were 116 for touchdowns. That's the most receiving touchdowns by any tight end ever. More than Tony Gonzalez, more than Rob Gronkowski, more than Jimmy Graham, more than Travis Kelce, who round out the top five. Gates was a high quality basketball player at Kent State State but did not play college football. So he went undrafted obviously. Signed as a free agent with the Chargers in 2003, Gates ended up as the Chargers all time leader in catches, yards and touchdowns.
- [20:51]
Pablo Torre
The first Pro Football hall of Famer to not have a down of college football on his resume. And also despite how amazing he is, kind of this great example of I think basketball players might be better athletes than football players. I see a lot of basketball dominating football. Not so much the other way around.
- [21:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Just for the record, a not so happy anniversary Billy Martin and Reggie Jackson on this day 49 years ago, the manager of the Yankees and the best player on the Yankees had to be physically separated in the dugout. Martin, who had a notorious temper, had removed Jackson from the outfield mid inning for not hustling enough to suit him, replacing Jackson with Paul Blair. Martin and Jackson had never liked each other, but had never actually fought before. You can see Elston Howard trying to keep Martin from Jackson. Later it's Howard and Yogi Berra, two of the greatest catchers of all time, restraining Martin, then Dick Hauser. Bobby Cox is Also in the dugout. I was a Reggie guy, not a Billy guy. They more or less forced you to take sides, Tony.
- [21:48]
Pablo Torre
I miss, of course, this entire era. Didn't they win the World Series that year, by the way, the idea that you could be all of these things. A total message. The Bronx Zoo, everything is on fire. And also, also the greatest. That seems like the best of both worlds. For a columnist or a magazine writer, perhaps.
- [22:06]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Yes, sure. Best team money could buy. Happy trails to the Rays. In their series against the Dodgers, LA swept three from Tampa Bay, finishing off the series with a 54 win. On Wednesday, Shohei Ohtani pitched four shutout innings before things got messy in the fifth. Ohtani gave up four runs on five hits in that frame while also battling a bloody blister on his pitching hand. But he bounced back with a 1, 2, 3, 6. Ohtani has been touched up for two starts in a row. His ERA has doubled to 1.47, putting him just behind the Miz.
- [22:36]
Pablo Torre
And just to restate that, doubled to 1.47, which means that, yes, he did let in more earned runs over the last two starts than he did in March and April and May combined, which was five. So a bit of a. Bit of a slump on a relative basis.
- [22:51]
Tony Kornheiser
One error. Pablo, you said Pluto was in a suburb of the Milky Way. It's in the Milky Way, it's just not technically in our solar system. You clearly did not win your Pulitzer in astronomy. And let's go quickly to the big finish, if we could. The Yankees are 9 and 4 since Aaron Judge went out with a rib fracture. You surprised?
- [23:07]
Pablo Torre
I am. But a three and a half game lead in the AL east tastes pretty good. The Trae Young deal. He's opted out of his one year $49 million option and he's going to test free agency. Your thoughts?
- [23:18]
Tony Kornheiser
My thoughts are he'll probably re sign, you know, with the Wizards. But he only played five games there. Who knows if he cares. Baseball is scrapping the clock for the Home Run Derby. Going back to swings. Does that make sense?
- [23:29]
Pablo Torre
It does make sense. The other version kind of felt like Papa shot a bit too frantic. The NHL has cleared Mike Babcock to coach amid interest from the Oilers. Are you surprised?
- [23:39]
Tony Kornheiser
Not really. I mean, he's. He coached three different teams in the league. He won Stanley cup with Detroit, so I'm not surprised. Last one. The men's College World Series is down to number five, North Carolina, and unseated Oklahoma. Go ahead, pick one.
- [23:51]
Pablo Torre
I'm picking North Carolina. I have great affection for their sports information department due to other reporting I've done. Go heels.
- [23:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, we're out of time. Try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [24:04]
Pablo Torre
I'm Pablo Torre. Thank you for watching Pablo. Victoria Finds out is the show that Tony made fun of. But now you're Sports Center. MLB TV on ESPN is your home for every out of market game, live or on demand. Catch your favorite teams and players plus MLB Network and ESPN app features like multi view, syncing your stats, key plays, bets and fantasy all in one place. Sign up now for MLB TV in the ESPN app. Separate subscriptions required. Blackouts and other terms apply. Visit stream espn.com mlbtv for more information.