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- [00:01]
Tony Kornheiser
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [00:31]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre and it is International Space Day. Tony so do you like gazing into space, Tony Kornhouse?
- [00:39]
Wilbon
Sure, as long as I don't have to look at Uranus. That's funny. Like, I know Wil Vaughn would just go, ha. But that's funny. That's funny.
- [00:48]
Pablo Torre
More than funny. It's an honor. It's the whole reason, I believe, why my family came to America is to be a Uranus joke for Tony Kornheiser on bti. This is the dream. It's the dream. That's the American dream.
- [01:03]
Wilbon
Huh?
- [01:04]
Pablo Torre
That's. Right.
- [01:04]
Wilbon
That's. Yeah. Yeah. Give me your poor. You're tired. You're people gazing at Uranus. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilvon did a foreign fly this week. So here to co host our fifth episode of the week is the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre finds out. Mr. Pablo Torre. And we begin today with the news that Gregg Popovich will step down as head coach of the San Antonio spurs and will concentrate on his duties as team. Popovich, who was 76, suffered a mild stroke last November and stepped away from coaching then. Popovich has won five NBA titles and an Olympic gold medal. He's already in the hall of Fame. Pablo, what is your reaction to this news?
- [01:46]
Pablo Torre
That he is a singular character in the history of the NBA. He was the longest tenured coach. Tony In 2020, he decided to coach four more years. He was somebody who saw every plausible change to the game by virtue of that longevity and. And adapted and thrived in each of them. He was a guy whose teams didn't shoot a lot of threes and then they did. He was a guy whose teams weren't known for being the global hub of NBA basketball. And that's exactly what they became. He mastered load management to the consternation of the league office. He was somebody who knew how to court superstars until they got mad at him like Kawhi Leonard. He is a guy who has seen and done everything and his coaching tree as the last point here I counted 91 branches, 23 of whom were head coaches in the NBA and WNBA. It is a run unlike any other. I don't know how anybody could aspire to replicate it.
- [02:41]
Wilbon
So I have a more personal look at this than you do, because Popovich and I are the same age and I was hoping he would come back to coach. But I'm glad to see that he's going to assume this other role and he's going to be working on a daily basis. I don't think anyone would be surprised that he stepped away at this point. He's been in San Antonio. I believe he went to San Antonio to be an assistant to my old camp counsel, Larry Brown in 1988. And he stayed since. He has had Tim Duncan, he has had David Robinson, he has had Tony Parker, he has had Manu Ginobili, he's had Kawhi Leonard, he's won championships with all of them. He has Victor Wembanyama now and everyone is predicting championships there as well. I mean, he's a great, great coach over a long period of time. I don't know. We're gonna say what we'll never see is like again. Cuz you always get in trouble when you say that about someone. Cuz someone does come along, as we see all the time. But he's, he's a very special coach. There this talk that, that it could be a safe and good landing spot for Giannis Antetokounmpo to come to San Antonio. And if that were to happen and he would go out there with Victor Wembanyama, you would say, where have I seen this before? Well, where you've seen it before is with David Robinson and Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich won championships that way.
- [04:08]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, but I detect in your caveat there, we see figures like this happen all of the time. Never say there'll never be another one like you. I detect in there a bit of just your own personal anxiety about yourself at this age, frankly, more than an actual argument as to why we might see anybody claim this level of longevity. Look, the thing I think about with Pop Tony, that also reminds me of you just a bit here. At a certain point he became so established and unimpeachable in his role that he could just say and do what he wanted. And so the only question was, when did he wanna move upstairs? And so no one's surprised by this, except for the people who thought that this guy needed to do this to wake up in the morning. And so Pop, the Legacy is as much about how long someone can do this, let alone whether they're allowed to do it.
- [05:05]
Wilbon
And he earned every bit of it. He earned every hour that he worked there. Again, if we're the same age and I wonder about these same things, I just. I would like to see him on the bench. That's all I'm saying. But this is.
- [05:18]
Pablo Torre
I detected that, too. I detected that, too.
- [05:20]
Wilbon
Yeah. We move now to the New York Knicks eliminating the Detroit Pistons from the playoffs last night by beating the pistons in Detroit 116, 113. The last frantic seconds of the game featured a go ahead three by Jalen Brunson for the winner and a fumbled pass by Malik Beasley for the losers. Pablo, what stood out most to you about the final two possessions?
- [05:43]
Pablo Torre
The clutchness of Jalen Brunson. And it is hard, again, in this topic, too, to go historical, to avoid the history, to not plumb the depths of your own assessment as an ancestral Knicks fan, because what do you possibly compare this to? So Malik Beasley, in the first possession that we were looking at there, he fumbles. He is melted underneath the pressure and the spotlight. And Jalen Brunson does what I don't know, we haven't seen since Clyde Frazier in getting better when the moment gets biggest. And so in terms of what Jalen Brunson is and what these Knicks are, they are the opposite of a team in Detroit that has lost yet another home playoff game. They're actually meeting the moment under tremendous, tremendous scrutiny. And that feels like, again, Clyde ish. Clyde esque.
- [06:32]
Wilbon
Yeah. So that's the team of my youth. That's the greatest passing and shooting team I have ever seen in all the years that I've watched basketball. I'm not going to compare Brunson to Walt Frazier. You got a long way to go to be Walt Frazier. You got a long way to go to be Willis free. You got a long way to go be Patrick Ewing, Bernard King. I mean, you got to win a championship. I mean, now they're in the second round. But what it looks like, it looks like Jordan, you know, in the game against Utah. That's what it looks like. More than. More than Walt Frazier. Yeah, more than Walt Frazier. I have a larger view of this, that if he'll indulge me for about 30 seconds, I am relieved that this thing ended in six games, not seven. I am relieved that it ended in Detroit and not New York, because if it goes back to New York for Game 7, and if the Knicks win there, then Detroit stands up and they say, what did you do to us? We justifiably think that you stole this series from us because at the end of game four, you didn't give us the foul call that you had to give us, that you said was a bad no call. Because then we're down one and we get three foul shots and we win that game. So if they, if they lose in seven in New York, they can say to the NBA, you robbed us. But when they lose in six at home in Detroit, Pablo, I think that takes a little bit of the starch out of the argument. I also wanted to make sure of a quote by Malik Beasley here, which I'd written down as I'm the best shooter in the world and I felt like I should have gotten a shot off in the last possession. You're the what? You're the best shooter in the world? Well, first of all, if you're going to be the best shooter in the world, you have to catch the ball to shoot the ball. So you're not the best catcher in the world. The second time in a couple of days we've seen fumbles very late in the game that may have decided a series.
- [08:16]
Pablo Torre
Gary Trench, by the way, this series, yes, yes, yes. But this series game to game was a real wooden roller coaster. To make another New York reference like it felt like the wheels were going to fall off, it somehow got to be entertaining and exciting every single time. Meanwhile, by the way, as much scrutiny as we put on, you know, Luka Doncic, Nico Harrison in that the Mavs had Jalen Brunson, they had the guy. And so yes, they did. So I turn now, I suppose logically to the Lakers court out of the playoffs and JJ Redick is sharing his thoughts on how to have a stronger run next season. Redick says the team needs to get into, quote, championship shape, adding, quote, and we have a ways to go as a roster. Certainly there are individuals that were in phenomenal shape. There's certainly other ones who could have been in better shape, end quote. So Tony, what do you read into that remark?
- [09:08]
Wilbon
I mean, there's just no other way to read this except to step back and be amazed by it. And I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm not saying Reddick is wrong. You know, great teams are in great shape. But this is so directly used as an arrow into Luka Doncic's apparently too large hide. I mean, that's what this is about. This is. Luka Doncic is not even under long term contract with The Lakers. But there's nobody else on that team that anybody ever says is fat and out of shape. It's only Luka Doncic here. I mean, I know that JJ Redick has said he can do better as a coach. I thought he did a very good job in his first year as a coach, bringing them in third, a less good job in the playoffs, where they went out rather meekly. And I think, you know, I think the teams, when you, to become a contender, you have to go through tight circumstances. You have to have a certain amount of disappointment. And I think it's the same for young coaches. Tight circumstances and a certain amount of disappointment. So if he's. If he's taking some responsibility for that, that's fine. But I've come to the point, Pablo, and I think this was started by Nico Harris. And I've come to the point where I'm tired of the referendum on Luka Doncic's body, and it begins to feel like body shaming to me. Fat Luca took the Dallas Mavericks to the NBA Finals last year. And so, I mean, when. When do we. When do we stop? When does that target leave us?
- [10:35]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I don't know if it's leaving us. I appreciate your lack of appreciation for the unsubtlety of this. It is a bit like someone pointing out, hey, that episode of PTI today, the bald guy really could have played better, really could have had some more good points. And it's like, okay, I think we have a sense as to who they're targeting there as well. Look, J.J. went all in on a strategy of we're playing our guys in the second half and they're not going to sit for a second. And what he is reckoning with publicly is why, in his mind, his strategy didn't pay off. And so when it comes to what they really need, the other form of assistance comes in the good kind of size. It comes in the form of a guy like Mark Williams, who they had for like a night, and then they said in the light of day, we can't do this. It's too rich of a price. But that's. But that's. That's what they need. They were outgunned down low. And as much as it's, you know, losing weight, it's gaining size that they need.
- [11:39]
Wilbon
I'll just. I just point this out. If you're going to play five guys the entire second half, and then you're going to say that the team isn't really in shape, well, I assume you played the guys who were in shape because Luka played the entire second half. Why would you do that? He's not in shape. Let's take a break. Coming up, what's the best word to describe how the warriors will be in tonight's Game six against the Rockets?
- [12:00]
Pablo Torre
And how best to describe tomorrow's Kentucky Derby?
- [12:05]
Wilbon
Are you a Derby guy? Do you like horse racing? I like horse racing.
- [12:08]
Pablo Torre
I like a julep. I like a julep. I like an era. An era when you know people respected newspapers and horses. Yeah.
- [12:18]
Wilbon
Yeah.
- [12:19]
Pablo Torre
I have nostalgia for that.
- [12:20]
Wilbon
That's good to know.
- [12:22]
Tony Kornheiser
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- [13:30]
Wilbon
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- [14:14]
Pablo Torre
The Rockets, the Warriors will be blank.
- [14:17]
Wilbon
So my word is defending. And I don't just mean Pablo. I don't mean like on the court in a basketball sense, defending. I mean, defending their reputation and perhaps even, you know, defending their legacy. Look, if they lose this game, their run is over. Now, their run may be over anyway, but this would be symbolic because they would have lost to a younger team and that would put them over there somewhere. But if they win this game, these are the warriors we've come to know and love. You know, this is the old, wise warriors team, and they're not actually done yet. They tanked game five because discretion is the better part of valor. And they gotta come all out, all in on this game. This game is their championship game.
- [15:07]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, but that's why the warriors will be throbbing. They'll be throbbing. And I say that because I saw that photo of Steph Curry's thumb in which there is a new ball attached to it, and the whole thing in Games 4 and 5, that the warriors believe that the Rockets, those young, cunning Rockets, targeted it, fouled him hard on the thumb repeatedly. And then meanwhile, when it goes to the Jimmy Butler of it all, he's off standing in a corner somewhere limping around, because, of course, he's Jimmy Butler and he too is old. And so when it comes to what the warriors are doing, it's going to be overcoming. Overcoming a physical disadvantage by way of, yes, as you put it, Father Time and the slow march of the flawed meat sack that is the human body.
- [15:54]
Wilbon
So then. Then I take it you think they are going to lose, whereas I think they're going to win tonight. I think they got the one last game. You think they're going to lose, right?
- [16:03]
Pablo Torre
I think an injured Jimmy and an injured Steph is exactly what the warriors would want to not happen to win a long series. And I watch those Rockets, man. Jalen Green's jumping everywhere. Alperin Shangoon is, you know, looking like he should have been yet another international star. The spurs drafted like. It's incredible. The Rockets are a really good young team, intimidating.
- [16:28]
Wilbon
What's next? What's next?
- [16:30]
Pablo Torre
Saturday's Kentucky Derby promises to be blank.
- [16:34]
Wilbon
So my word is soggy. The forecast is it's going to rain all day in Churchill Downs. That it could rain as much as 2 inches in Churchill Downs. Sloppy conditions like that, they really hurt favorites and they really help long shots. I will give you the names of some of the horses that are being bet on to a large degree. One is Journalism. One is Sovereignty. One is Sandman. One is Admire Daytona. One is the Luxor Cafe. This was going to be the return and it is the return of Bob Baffert, whose suspension was preposterously long. I mean, just ridiculously long. But one of his horses, Rodriguez, was scratched the other day. So my friend Eddie is going to bet sovereignty. Kenny McPeak, who trained the winner in the derby last year, is going to bet, thinks Sovereignty is going to win. The great Andy Beyer thinks journalism is going to win. I was a journalist for a long time, so I'm inclined to want journalism to win because there ain't journalism anymore. And my friend David, who was a journalist for a long time, suggested he doesn't care if journalism wins as long as he beats this one other horse in the field. Publisher. And that's a newspaper joke. And it's actually pretty funny though only, only three people have gotten that. And let me thank you for not being Wil Bond, cuz he would have dismissed this whole thing and just called it the horsies and would have said shut up with it already. When the fact is that more people will watch the Kentucky Derby. More people than will watch the NBA finals. It's true fact.
- [18:07]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. My main frustration with you is that my whole word, my approach was going to be it'll be ink stained because I'm picking journalists. Oh, I'm picking journalists. But you sort of got to the whole thing. Look, I am too young for this, admittedly, but I love the idea that for two minutes, Tony, you get to feel like journalism is alive again. That the youth that you knew, the industry that I missed can somehow be thriving. I do like indulging that fantasy for two minutes.
- [18:43]
Wilbon
It'll be great. My grandsons will never understand what I did. They'll never understand the concept of newspaper.
- [18:49]
Pablo Torre
They have no idea what newspaper is.
- [18:51]
Wilbon
That's the final word. Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Clippers push the Nuggets to a game seven and Mike.
- [18:58]
Pablo Torre
Trout heads to the injured list once more.
- [19:01]
Wilbon
Are you rooting for Golden State or are you rooting for Houston?
- [19:06]
Pablo Torre
I'm rooting for Houston because Jalen Green, part Filipino. Did you know that? Okay.
- [19:14]
Wilbon
Oh, okay.
- [19:16]
Pablo Torre
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- [19:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Bombas are so absurdly comfortable, you may throw out all your other clothes.
- [19:24]
Pablo Torre
Sorry, do we legally have to say that?
- [19:26]
Tony Kornheiser
No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas.
- [19:29]
Pablo Torre
They do feel that good. And they do good too. One item purchased equals one item donated.
- [19:34]
Tony Kornheiser
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- [19:47]
Pablo Torre
Valspar Ultra starts at just 29.98 a gallon, so we've got you covered when your daughter wants to paint her room again after last year's masterpiece of a unicorn mural.
- [19:57]
Wilbon
Dad, please.
- [19:59]
Pablo Torre
Or when you realize that maybe you went too hard on the grayish I missed color. Or when you were sure you wanted a home gym but your elliptical is.
- [20:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Currently hanging your laundry.
- [20:09]
Pablo Torre
What about a home office shop Everything you need for your next phase with Valspar.
- [20:14]
Tony Kornheiser
Available at Lowe's.
- [20:15]
Pablo Torre
Price varies by sheen.
- [20:23]
Wilbon
Happy time people. Happy 25th birthday Jordan Travis. You may not remember the name. Travis was the Florida State quarterback who guided the seven zeros to an 110 record and the number four ranking two seasons ago. They were in line for a bid to the then four team College Football Playoff when Travis got carted off the field with a season ending ankle injury. FSU used substitute quarterbacks to beat Florida and Louisville and finished the season 13:0. But because Travis was out, the selection committee bypassed the Seminoles and put Alabama, Michigan, Texas and Washington into the playoff. FSU coach Mike Norvell screamed bloody murder, but to no avail. Travis was drafted by the jets in 2024 but was not able to play physically and announced his retirement two days ago.
- [21:11]
Pablo Torre
So Jordan Travis, for those keeping score at home, the all time leader in total offense out of Florida State. Also in touchdowns. Responsible for, I believe. But his legacy, truly Tony, is as a cause. His name is so synonymous with this injustice that Florida State fans, if you talk to them for five seconds, will remind you very righteously about how they were done wrong.
- [21:34]
Wilbon
Happy anniversary Willie McCovey. This is posthumous. But around this day, 45 years ago, the Giants first baseman hit the.520 first and last home run of his hall of Fame career. So beloved in San Francisco was McCovey that the body of water just beyond right field was named McCovey Colt and around the state 2025 years ago, the Giants Barry Bonds became the first player to hit a ball into McCovey Cove, a three run homer off Mets reliever Rich Rodriguez. When he retired, Bonds had 35 splash hits, more than anyone. One of the charms of watching a Giants home game is seeing the people in kayaks paddling around McCovey Cove waiting for a home run to come their way that they can snare in a fishing net.
- [22:16]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I guess a bit of the through line in these last two happies is remembering somebody not for the stuff they actually did on the field. But splash hits. What a statistic. What a phenomenal statistic to describe one of the most miserable experiences which is being in a little boat in the cold water of McCovey Cove.
- [22:36]
Wilbon
Splash hit like it. Happy trails to game six for the Nuggets. The Clippers tied the series at home behind 27 points from Kawhi Leonard and 28 by James Harden. Harden had been largely ineffective in the Clippers two losses leading into this game. In fact, this was the first elimination game Harden has won since 2020. He and the Clippers have another in front of them tomorrow night. Do you expect the Clippers will be able to count on him again?
- [23:00]
Pablo Torre
Pablo I think James Harden is a phenomenal player and I would not trust him in these scenarios. Well, I guess I should have once. I believe you said since 2020. So exception that proves the rule, I think. No thanks.
- [23:14]
Wilbon
Now let's go to the big finish, if we could. The New York Rangers hired Mike Sullivan as their next head coach. Is that a good fit?
- [23:21]
Pablo Torre
I mean, the guy left. The Penguins won Stanley Cups in 2016 and 2017 with them. Yeah, we'll take it. The Oilers, Maple Leafs and Golden Knights, meanwhile, all advanced last night. Which one are you happiest about?
- [23:32]
Wilbon
Toronto. Original 16. Toronto. The Yankees moved Giancarlo Stanton to the 60 day injured list as that cause for concern.
- [23:40]
Pablo Torre
This is the double tennis elbow thing which may be related to the torpedo back thing. So yes, quite. The Angels are putting Mike Trout on the injured list because of a bone bruise to his left knee. Your thoughts?
- [23:53]
Wilbon
Look, it's not a tragedy. He's had a long career. He's going to be in the hall of Fame and all of that. But injuries have short circuited what might have been one of the greatest careers of all time. Makes me sad all the time. And he never, you know, no playoff games. Really? Three playoffs. Last one. Rockies are on a two game heater. Do I hear three?
- [24:11]
Pablo Torre
Pablo they're facing the Giants in San Francisco. I hear a couple splash hits and.
- [24:17]
Wilbon
Yes, splash hits, baby. We got some splash hits tonight. Yeah, we're out of time. Try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [24:24]
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. Thank you so much for watching. Pablo Torre Finds out is my Show. It's on YouTube and podcast stuff.
- [24:30]
Tony Kornheiser
In case you didn't know. These young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.