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- [00:02]
Booger McFarlane
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. Quite remarkable, magnificent and unmistakable. These are the prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. And they are not asking for you to pass the baton. They are methodically planning the perfect moment to take it. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [00:32]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre. Wilbon in New Orleans, me in Miami. So, Tony, where are you?
- [00:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony Kornheiser, the Galapagos. It looks so much like my basement here, doesn't it? Looks like my basement.
- [00:47]
Pablo Torre
Tropical. Yes, the Galapagos.
- [00:50]
Tony Kornheiser
They have those giant turtles, don't they? Giant tortoises from the Galapagos Islands, I believe.
- [00:57]
Pablo Torre
Almost as old as you, I'm told.
- [00:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Those tortoises, yeah, and older to some degree. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilbon has betrayed you. So coming to the rescue is our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre finds out. Mr. Pablo Torre. There you go. Let's get some applause. And we begin today not with any more NBA trades, but with the super bowl, which has been mostly out of the news all week because of Luka Doncic. The Kansas City Chiefs are one and a half point favorites over the Philadelphia Eagles. Both teams won 17 games this year. They are not surprises getting here. Pablo, what are you looking for and who are you leaning towards?
- [01:39]
Pablo Torre
I'm going to take the Chiefs and I am stunned that this counts as a less than obvious choice at this point. Tony, I know this is going to be a close game, but to me, in my mind, I'm old enough to remember how close does not mean questionable. Like I think this is clearly the Chiefs. This is clearly going to be a close game. This is the best Eagle, I mean this is the best team, period that Mahomes has faced in his run of AFC title games and Super Bowls. And I believe that the team that has won 15 straight one score games led by the team with the coach that's better and the quarterback that's better, is a winning formula. So give me Kansas City.
- [02:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I mean, all things are never equal, but all things being equal, I think that Philadelphia is the better team. I think they have the better defense, I think they have the more explosive offense. We have seen Saquon Barkley hit home runs in the playoffs, you know, against really good teams. I think that their wide receivers are better. So I mean, I look at them, Saquon Barkley makes an enormous difference on that team from Last year, I think that they are the better team, but they don't have Patrick Mahomes. We have seen Patrick Mahomes win this game. This game, three times. Nobody asks the question is Jalen hurts the goat. They don't ask that. They asked that about Patrick Mahomes. So, sort of like you, even though I think Philadelphia is the better team, sort of like you, I feel Patrick Mahomes will win this game one way or another. I do.
- [03:18]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Look, I buy into what is not mythology about Mahomes. It's that when the game is most important, he is at his best. He finds ways to win under pressure. And I want to make it more than just Mahomes, even more than Andy Reid, who, by the way, if he wins this game, Tony might have a very plausible claim to be the greatest coach ever, even ahead of Belichick, given that he's done it.
- [03:38]
Tony Kornheiser
No, no, no. I think there's a real argument. No, no, no.
- [03:41]
Pablo Torre
I think there's a real argument. There's a real argument there. There's a real argument. But. But his assistant coach, right. Steve Spagnolo. I believe that Spagnolo might become the first assistant exclusively to go into the hall of Fame. Right. So when you have the architect of a defense that can do that, I just think the Chiefs, those guys, plus Chris Jones, the Hall of Famers, plus Kelce, like, I like the pedigree, I guess, is what I'm saying. And I think it's not that. It's not that close.
- [04:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Let me point one thing out, though. Philadelphia is not afraid of this stage. They've been to the super bowl three times in the last six or seven years. They won one of these things, and they've still got a couple of carryover guys. So, again, I think Philadelphia is the better team. I just don't think they're going to win. I don't think they're going to win.
- [04:28]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, Yeah. I can hear Philly being very, very mad at me and you, I think, at this point. But the vote for NFL mvp, Tony, there was a bit of a surprise there. Josh Allen topped Lamar Jackson, becoming the first player in 21 seasons to be named MVP without being named first team All Pro, an honor Jackson had earned. The same voters, by the way, determined both awards. So did Josh Allen, Tony, deserve to be named MVP over Jack?
- [04:52]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, so let me just say that on my ballot, if I'd had a ballot, I would have had three people clearly ahead of everyone else. I would have had Josh Allen, Saquon Barkley, and Lamar Jackson, in alphabetical order, I would have voted for Saquon Barkley. He had a tremendous year, could have, maybe should have more rushing yards in one year than anyone ever. You know, last year the Eagles collapsed towards the end of the season. They made one change. They got Saquon Barkley. And they did not collapse this year. But he also worked with the best offensive line in football, so he had help. Lamar Jackson has better numbers than Josh Allen. His touchdown to interception rate is better. His total amount of yards while rushing is better. But he had Derrick Henry. Derrick Henry is tremendous. You have to game plan for Derrick Henry and I think that gives Lamar Jackson a certain amount of freedom. Josh Allen didn't have this stuff. He didn't have Pro bowl wide receivers. He did not have running back threats. He did not have the best offensive line of football. So whatever Buffalo got, Josh Allen did that. And that's why I wouldn't have voted from. But I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it.
- [06:10]
Pablo Torre
The three names you mentioned, I think you're right. That's the tier at the very top. Any of those guys. I'm not losing sleep, but I just want to discuss what the difference is between first team all Pro and mvp. Because it's interesting, right, We've sort of isolated a variable here. What's the difference between being the best quarterback on the first team, All Pro team versus the most valuable player? And it tells me, Tony, that MVP is more of a story award, right? Josh Allen won bigger games than Lamar Jackson in the regular season. Josh Allen came into the league criticized by all of the writers who ended up voting for him for MVP for being inefficient and inaccurate. This was the most efficient and accurate season of Josh Allen's career. And he was one of the best guys in both regards in the entire sport. So to me it feels like a career achievement award in a sense, which is again, different from maybe some other people's definitions. But the difference seems to be there's a justification for rewarding him for not.
- [07:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Having won it before that first team all pro thing. The best quarterback is Joe Burrow and the best player is Patrick Mahomes. So, you know, I don't know how those work off each other. I mean, I'm okay with the MVP award. I'm okay. I don't want to vote. I don't want to vote. I want the sticker that says I voted. Now we move to the NBA and Luka Doncic, the Mavericks won last night. Without Anthony Davis, the Lakers won Without Luka. That's not what we're here to talk about. We're going to talk about this choice. Which scene would you rather cover? Pablo? The Mavericks playing their first home game since the trade that'll happen tomorrow, or Monday's Laker home game where Luka is targeting to be on the court?
- [07:57]
Pablo Torre
I love this question, this setup, because the question here is, where's the better story? And I'm tempted to go to Dallas. I'm really tempted because I think we've missed the forest and the trees when it comes to a fan revolution that is maybe now going to focus finally on the people who own the team, as opposed to the GM meat shield, who's been the guy we've all been criticizing for understandable reasons. But I get it. But I still. I'm sending myself to la. I'm sending myself to the Lakers. Yeah, Tony. I'm sending myself to see LeBron James, who just became the oldest and youngest person to have a game like the one he had last night. 40 plus a zillion assists, rebounds, all of it. Yes, I want to see that. And I want to see Luka in his debut. I want to see that because it's history and not just anger.
- [08:44]
Tony Kornheiser
So I don't think this is a close call. I think the answer is very obvious. And I base this on the fact that I used to be a sports columnist and I might even have to face a choice like this. Where are you going to go? Luca's debut. That's wonderful to watch. That is an on court story. That's an on court story. We want to find out, how does he play with LeBron? What's his defense like? If he plays any defense, are they going to win? Those things aren't decided in the first game. No matter what happens here in the first game, Luke is going to have 30, 35 more games there. So to me, you can drop in at any time. The first game where he's not there in Dallas is a one shot. It is an off court story. It is an in the stand story. The first game is when you are going to feel how much those fans feel betrayed and how much pain they have. That will diminish in the second home game. You gotta be there for this one. You have to let that pour all over you. That's the story. I'm writing a column. That's where I'm gonna be.
- [10:00]
Pablo Torre
That's your. I hate to admit that. That was a really good pitch. It's a good pitch. I'm like, yeah, I Want to read that? Put that A1. Here's the other point I want to make though. When it comes to what's the value of Luka's debut. Luka, according to a Mavericks source who's told me this multiple times, is maybe the pettiest player in all of basketball. So yes, there is an on court dimension to this that is obviously over indexed when it comes to the difference between the two. But Luka Doncic, vengeance seeking vengeance. I do like that. I do like that.
- [10:37]
Tony Kornheiser
I will say this. No, and I get that it's an insane trade. Nobody trades a 25 year old superstar. It is completely insane at this point for anybody to have done that. I mean, I think it's gonna have bad reverberations down the road. I just briefly say this. The people in Dallas are putting out how fat Luka is. He's so fat. And all the people who cover the league are parroting he's so fat. Fat Luka got to the NBA finals last year. How about that? Let's take a break. Coming up, Booger McFarlane predicted Steve Spagnolo's big blitz on Josh Allen. We're going to ask him whether he predicts more of the same against the Eagles.
- [11:18]
Pablo Torre
We'll also ask him about the importance of the recently ill Jalen Carter to that Eagles defense.
- [11:23]
Tony Kornheiser
Pablo, you're not dressed like an adult today, cuz you're in Miami. You're like, I'm, I'm, I'm co hosting with Don Johnson.
- [11:29]
Pablo Torre
What are you doing? This is Miami. This is Miami Black tie. Tony. Oh, I get into the most formal events wearing that. Less sweaty. But you know, I don't just stand on business. I live it 24 7. Because you don't become a young entrepreneur by staying stagnant. Whether I'm chasing deals, networking, or taking calls from behind the wheel of my Toyota crown, I'm always in motion. You may think launching a successful startup is enough to be satisfied, but me, I'm just getting started. It's a new day at Toyota led by a new generation of drivers. And we want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive. Toyota, let's go places.
- [12:12]
Melissa Cohill
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- [12:48]
Tony Kornheiser
In a story we broke in our first segment, the super bowl will be played on Sunday. So we have rushed to book our great friend, ESPN NFL and college football analyst Booger McFarlane, wearing a shirt from Highgrove in Florida. Let's start with this. You told us right on this show Steve Spagnolo was going to blitz the Bills late, and he did. You're obviously a student of Spags. You know what he's going to do. Do you have any insight, do you have any predictions as to what he's going to do to defend against the Eagles?
- [13:19]
Booger McFarlane
Well, let me see what Nostra Booger can come up with this time. Something tells me he's not going to let Saquon Barkley beat him. And so what does that mean? That means it's simple math. If they have seven blockers, you have to have eight defenders to stop the run. So he's going to bring an extra safety down and Derek Jalen hurts to beat him. I think this game comes down to anybody besides Saquon Barkley beating the Kansas City Chiefs. And I think if you're the Eagles, you got to get the running game going at all costs. But Steve Spagnolo knows that he's going to commit a lot of guys to the run. So, Tony, here's what would say if you're an Eagle fan, if you're part of the Bird gang, if the Eagles are going to win, the MVP is not going to be Saquon Barkley. I think the MVP is going to be Jalen Hurts. A.J. brown, Devonte Smith, Dallas Garden Because Steve Spagnolo is going to, he's going to employ the old Bill Belichick theory. I'm going to make you play left handed. And for the Eagles, that's the passing game that hurts. That's somebody outside of Saquon Barkley.
- [14:16]
Pablo Torre
Booger, I want you to just be yourself here for a second because Jalen Carter plays the position you did, and he's on the mend from an illness. He's out seemingly, or at least he's recovering. So what is his importance to the Eagles? What do you see in his play that makes him so crucial?
- [14:32]
Booger McFarlane
Think about the importance of guys like this. Tony and Pablo. This is going to be right in your wheelhouse, Tony Merlin Olson, Dan Hampton, guys that played in the middle, John Randle, Warren Sapp, Dexter Manley, guys that played that three technique position on the defensive side of the football, and they put a knife in the heart of the offense because it's coming right up the middle. They often say the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and for a defensive player, that's right up the middle. So Jaylen Carter, like, he's that young defensive tackle. Now, is he as good as those guys I named? No, not yet. But he's got the talent to be as good as the guy on the other sideline in Chris Jones. And so he's going to be the knife through this defense. He's going to be the engine that makes this defense go. If you don't hear the name Jalen Carter early and often and consistently throughout the game, that is a problem for the Philadelphia Eagles.
- [15:26]
Pablo Torre
The other big name to talk about, Cam Juergens, the Eagles center talking about the O line. Now, he, of course, was out for the NFC title game. Back issues, booger. If you were to attack Cam Juergens, right, you're lining up across from him. How are you doing it? What's your strategy?
- [15:42]
Booger McFarlane
I'm going to attack the thing that maybe you don't have. Pablo. See, Tony and I are old, grizzled veterans. We got a backbone, we got a spine. I don't know if you have that. Like. Like you're too young. You still have a gristle. Pablo. See, Tony and I, we got backbones. And so I'm gonna attack Cam Jurgens, and I'm gonna power rush him. I'm gonna force him to anchor down and use those back muscles and to see how healthy that back is. And the way you do that is you do it with power. You make him engage those butt cheeks and those back muscles, and let's see how healthy he really is. And if he can do it one time, can he do a 10? And if he can do a 10, can he do it for three and a half hours on Super Bowl Sunday? So I'm going to test him early and often. No offense, Pablo, but Tony and I are more seasoned. Our muscles are more toned. Our spine is a little bit more hardened.
- [16:30]
Pablo Torre
Your butt muscles have been activated. I get the drift. Yeah.
- [16:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Seasoned. That's how I think of myself. Seasoned or over seasoned? So old that I am over seasoned. All right, we get you out of here on this booger, with everything that you've said, which way are you leaning in this game?
- [16:48]
Booger McFarlane
You know, Tony, I'm old enough to remember the last time that the Chiefs went into a Super bowl where their offensive line was questionable. I'm old enough to remember that time because he was against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in Tampa, where the Bucs hosted the Kansas City Chiefs in the Super Bowl. And what happened? The Bucs dominated the game because they dominated up front. I don't think it's going to be that big a domination, but I do think the Eagles defensive line has a decided advantage against the Kansas City Chiefs offensive line. I think the better team is going to win. Now, we all know Kansas City has won Super Bowls. When they've gone against a team that quote unquote had a better roster. I think the Eagles roster is better. I think the Eagles play better. And I think for the first time in a few years, I think everybody's going to look up and say, go Birds, go. I think the Eagles win the Super Bowl. Super Bowl. I think the MVP is going to be Jalen Hurts.
- [17:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Thank you so much Booger. Always a pleasure. Thank you.
- [17:44]
Booger McFarlane
It has been a pleasure guys. I really, really appreciate it. Pablo keep keep working on the back muscle and we can get it hardened over the years. Buddy.
- [17:52]
Pablo Torre
I'm sitting straighter than I've ever sat in this chair right now.
- [17:55]
Tony Kornheiser
He's all gristle. He's simply let's take one last break. Still to come, Shedor Sanders says going number one doesn't really matter to him as long as it's the right fit. Is that the right approach?
- [18:08]
Pablo Torre
And Ben Simmons, speaking of back issues, he appears ready to embark on yet another new chapter. Another one?
- [18:14]
Tony Kornheiser
Wasn't he one of your guys in Philadelphia? Oh yeah, wasn't he. Trust the process, Ben.
- [18:19]
Pablo Torre
How's that working out? Pablo that's part of my back issue actually. Ryan Reynolds here from IT Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com.
- [18:43]
Melissa Cohill
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- [20:12]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy belated 59th birthday Tom Tupa this was yesterday. Tupa played quarterback and punted at Ohio State. He was an All American punter but was drafted as a quarterback by the Phoenix Cardinals in the third round in 1988. Tupa was mostly a backup quarterback there. He became a full time punter with a Cleveland Browns in 1994 when Bill Belichick was the coach there. Tupa was a first team all pro punter for the jets in 1999. Punted for the Super bowl champion Buccaneers in 2002. Pablo, I think you have a story about Tupa.
- [20:45]
Pablo Torre
Tupa is the most important player that nobody really remembers in NFL history. Tony I did an episode about how Tom Brady was drafted. How did the patriots get the 199th pick in that draft? It was a compensatory pick. The answer, in short, is Tom Tupa. The longer answer? Come to my podcast. I'll explain.
- [21:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy anniversary, Shaquille O'Neal on this day, 32 years ago, the rookie Shaq delayed a game in Phoenix for 35 minutes after dunking the ball so hard the entire hydraulic backboard support system retracted like a cowering mechanical beast. Months later in New Jersey, Shaq dunked so hard that the entire basket seemingly fell apart and Shaq almost got knocked out by the 24 second clock. Shaq's the largest person I've ever encountered. He once picked me up from behind, held me a loft five feet above the ground. Everyone loves Shaq. He's in a million commercials. You know, the Icy Hot one where he dunks. Pablo, do you think Shaq can still dunk?
- [21:44]
Pablo Torre
I have to believe he still can. And Shaquille O'Neal, by the way, the superlative he deserves. Not best, not even biggest but most dominant. It feels like it's him and Wilt Chamberlain, just the guy that you absolutely don't think you can stop on a given night because of the speed, the strength in his prime, both of those things. And also, yes, the circumference, all of it.
- [22:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy Trail's Ben Simmons. The 6:10 point guard is reportedly working on a contract buyout with the Nets pending a commitment from a new team. Simmons is in the final season of a five year deal. He originally signed with the Sixers. He's a three time All Star. He was a top Pick in the 2016 draft, but is now averaging six points, five rebounds and seven assists in 25 minutes per game. This is a total stunner to me, his career. What happened to this guy? He's still just 28. If I had a team, I'd take a chance on him. If I had a team where he couldn't hurt me.
- [22:40]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, it's one of those cases that has taught me about the importance of sports psychology as much as anything else I've covered. Tony the Cavs, though, feel like the answer there. He's a luxury. Good for them. He's kind of like, you know, he's a flying car without a stereo. Can do things no one else can do, but also can't do some things that you kind of need, but they can, they can weather that. I hope he finds another opportunity to, you know, start again.
- [23:04]
Tony Kornheiser
I'd like to see him actually play. Let's go to the big finish if we could. Ramona Shelburne described the Suns locker room as, quote, toxic, unquote. Does that make sense to you?
- [23:13]
Pablo Torre
It does. Kevin Durant doesn't seem like he wants to be there. And also they know that everything's falling apart and it will officially by, you know, 2030 at the latest. New Pro Football hall of Famers include Eric Allen, Jared Allen, Antonio Gates and Sterling Sharpe. Your thoughts?
- [23:30]
Tony Kornheiser
All deserving, but I would have thought Eli Manning and Adam Vinatieri were deserving as well. Shedor Sanders told Kevin Clark that going number one doesn't matter to him. It's all about fit. Is that a good approach?
- [23:41]
Pablo Torre
Yes. It's more diplomatic than Eli Manning, but, you know, similar logic. Alex Ovechkin scored in his fourth straight game last night. Are you impressed?
- [23:50]
Tony Kornheiser
He's going to break Gretzky's record this season. Even with the broken leg. He's going to do it this season. Last one. Chet Holmgren returns tonight for the Thunder. Is that significant?
- [24:01]
Pablo Torre
Sources close to Michael Wilbon tell me it is incredibly important. Averaging 16 and nine, two and a half blocks a game. Yes, really big news.
- [24:11]
Tony Kornheiser
We're out of time. We will try to do better the next time. Melissa Cohill, thank you very much.
- [24:15]
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. Thanks, Melissa. Thank you for watching. I don't have my sign, but for now your SportsCenter.
- [24:23]
Tony Kornheiser
Melissa sent me a whole bunch of things. Some golf balls and, and some shirts and stuff like that. And she didn't include a note. I had to track her down, which I did. I'm happy I did that.
- [24:36]
Melissa Cohill
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