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- [00:01]
Mike Wilbon
Talk about stepping up.
- [00:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Bang, bang.
- [00:04]
Mike Wilbon
It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.
- [00:15]
Steve Young
The electricity is palpable.
- [00:17]
Mike Wilbon
Step up your game. With no annual contract required. It's the ultimate fan experience. Level up. For more on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com Sign up now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilmont. Tony, A message in a bottle washed up in Australia after 109 years at sea.
- [00:44]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser and it was written by a young Eubie Brown. Yeah, that's cold.
- [00:50]
Mike Wilbon
That's cold. No, I don't believe these message in a bottle stories. They're even more fraudulent than the Florida man stories.
- [01:00]
Tony Kornheiser
I believe something could be in a bottle for 109 years. I believe that's possible.
- [01:05]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah.
- [01:06]
Tony Kornheiser
Welcome to PTI Boys and Girls. In today's episode, Dave Roberts makes lineup changes, Michael Jordan criticizes load management and Steve Young joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the World series being tied 2 to 2 after Toronto beat the Dodgers last night 6 to 2. This was a rather dull game in comparison to the 18 thriller of Game 3 that the Dodgers won. Game. Shohei Otani started for the Dodgers last night, gave up a two run home run to Vlad Guerrero Jr. In the third inning to put Toronto ahead two to one. Toronto got four more runs in the seventh inning chasing Ohtani and pounding a couple of Dodgers relievers. Wilbon, what do you think of how this one played out?
- [01:46]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, I only care about one of the themes and yes, I went in caring about Shohei, came out not caring about Shohei. It was great that he went out there after what happened the previous night when he had to be exhausted and pitched and pitched pretty darn well. But Tony, this game was about Toronto's resilience and resilience is one of those words is so overused in sports. But the disappointment, the crushing disappointment of that 18 inning loss, you got to sit there, you're in LA still. You didn't go back. You still are in LA. You got to go back out to Dodger Stadium to play that game the way they did, to get the starting pitching, to get the home run from Vlad Jr. It's all about Toronto. And a standing ovation for me from the way they responded to what had to be maybe the most crushing loss, I don't know, in franchise history.
- [02:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I mean I am not surprised at the outcome of the game. And I also expected it to be not as tension filled as the night before, and it was not. But I tip my. My hat to Toronto, and I will say on the air, you said yesterday you thought Toronto needed that game more than the Dodgers, and they got that game. And they went to their old formula to get that game. Toronto as a team comes back in games where they fall behind. They were down one nothing yesterday early, but they were down one nothing on the road. They win games, you know, when they're down in the series. They were down two nothing and three to two to Seattle in that series. They were down obviously two to one in this series. That's why, you know, Toronto, I'll take your word, resilience. They have that. They're a very good team. You cannot count them out. Which may explain why there was a quote last night referencing Herb Brooks and a team of uncommon men. I'm just looking at the notes here. My joy in that game, I don't want to go too long, was to see Ohtani against Guerrero. The first time, it was three pitches, Mike, and he struck him out in the first inning. The second time, Guerrero parked it in the left field seats, and then there was a line out. I mean, these are the two biggest stars in the World Series. And to go head to head like that, that. That was something very exciting for me to see.
- [04:11]
Mike Wilbon
Yep. And those are the matchups, the classic matchups Tone we remember over time, particularly from World Series. Let's move to tonight's game five. Yes. Still in la, Blue Jays rookie Trey Savage will take the mound against the Dodgers. Blake Snell in a rematch of game one. And with several Dodgers struggling at the plate in this series, Dave Roberts made changes to the lineup. Will Smith moves up to the number two hole. Mookie drops to third. Andy Pages is out with Alex Call taking over his spot, number nine. Tone, you think these changes are going to make a difference for the Dodgers tonight?
- [04:53]
Tony Kornheiser
So I'm happy with the change that gets Alex Call into the lineup and playing the outfield somewhere. I watched him when he was on the Washington Nationals. He's a very good contact hitter. He's a fine fielder. And let's be fair about Pajes for a second, okay? One for 15 in the World Series and four for 50 in the playoffs. How much of a larger sample size do you need? I would not necessarily change anyone else because everybody else is why you're in game five of the World Series. But would I be concerned about Mookie Betts being, what, 3 for 19 in the world Series. Would I be concerned that the Dodgers run production is a full half run less than it was in the regular season? That their batting average is 10 points less than it was in a regular season? Look, Mike, I think the Dodgers need to win this one because this series is going back to Toronto and Toronto is a good team at home. Toronto won the last two games at home to win the alcs. Toronto won the first game, you know, of the World Series here. I. I do think the Dodgers have to win this one in the way that you thought Toronto had to win last night.
- [06:00]
Mike Wilbon
Yeah, I think the Dodgers need to win this game, but I don't think those numbers make any difference. They're playing against better pitching. It's the World series. It's not May 3rd against the Rockies. It's the numbers are supposed to come down and they have. So changing the batting order. Shohei was 1 for 21 at a point. You ain't going to take him out. So Mookie Beth can find it. He's got guarantee you he's working on it. He's looking at film. He's in the cage. He might get some outside consultation. Of course, this is what the World Series is. It's best on best. So I agree with you on call. Who's like four for nine or something like that so far in the postseason? I agree. Get him in there. Do I think they're going to make a major difference because they shuffled the deck, you know, the chairs on the deck. No, I don't. I don't. God. Here's the major difference. Better.
- [06:55]
Tony Kornheiser
The major difference could come from Blake Snell. I don't think he's going to give up five earned like he did in game one. And I don't think he's going to take about 30 pitches to get out of the first inning like he did. But he's got to go seven or eight, Mike. Because the Dodgers true bullpen was revealed last night. He's got to go seven or eight or I don't think they have a chance. Let's move to Michael Jordan expressing his disregard for load management. In an interview with NBC's Mike Tirico, Jordan said he never did it. He wanted to be out there every game he could. He wanted to prove his worth to everyone that was watching. Wilbon, what do you make of Jordan's remarks?
- [07:32]
Mike Wilbon
I've known of these remarks for 40 years. I've known of his feelings for 40 years. It's a great conversation. It's a great one to have With Tirico. And I'm glad NBC is doing them. And people who aren't as familiar with Jordan. Younger audiences get to be familiar with how Michael Jordan feels about the important elements of basketball. But this ain't breaking news. All right. All of the players of that era, all the guys on the Dream Team. Yes, I'll speak for all of them. They think load management is garbage because most of them went out there and they played 80 or more as often as they could. Michael did it.
- [08:09]
Tony Kornheiser
That's right.
- [08:10]
Mike Wilbon
All the time. So, no, those guys knew that even the money paid then, which is a pittance of what is being paid to see a game now. People paid real money. They wanted to see them. They didn't want to hear that some trainer said, you should be out. I don't want to hear that excuse. Jordan played like it was Broadway. You were going to the theater and you got him, not the understudy.
- [08:37]
Tony Kornheiser
I totally agree with this. I mean, who is surprised that Michael Jordan doesn't like load management? He played 80 games or 82 games every single year. Right. Nobody in their right mind would compare him to Kawhi Leonard or Joel Embiid. Michael Jordan studied the NBA that was being paced by Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, who never missed a game. So he was never going to miss a game. He used a very interesting word in the interview, though, and he used the word entertainment. Michael Jordan appreciates that professional sports is entertainment. He appreciates the obligation that he had and they all have to the people who, you know, buying tickets, even the people in the nosebleed section. Michael Jordan didn't think that basketball was just about basketball players. And he understood there were fans there. And that, by and large, does not happen today. Today, people just think it's all about today's players. Look at the game. They're playing just that game. And they look at the money they're making, you know, and it's. It's a little bit different now. So, I mean, obviously you and I are going to applaud Michael Jordan because nobody cares about the fans anymore. The guys who are playing, Most of them. Not all of them. Most of them. Let's take a break. Still to come, Drake May is great at going deep. We will ask Steve Young what it takes to have that success.
- [09:54]
Mike Wilbon
We'll also ask him about Carson Wentz saying he'd never pull himself out of a game. Tony, you know what? You know, trainers and team physicians and all that have something to say. Michael Jordan stared those guys down when they told him he wasn't gonna play. He said get outta here.
- [10:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, get out of here. He was like Max Scherzer telling a manager to get away from the mound.
- [10:14]
Mike Wilbon
Exactly.
- [10:15]
Tony Kornheiser
That's what he was like.
- [10:16]
Steve Young
Pardon the interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly.
- [10:24]
Commercial Narrator
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- [12:23]
Steve Young
Welcome back to Pardon the Interruption presented by Twisted Tea Hard Iced Tea, Part of happy hour.
- [12:37]
Tony Kornheiser
We've got NFL questions for our great friend, the man who refused to be my placeholder when I kicked for the Los Angeles Express. Good quarterback Steve Young, who looks like he's going to lead a bunch of people up a Mountain in 15 minutes. Let's start with this. Carson Wentz got battered last week. He is now out for the Year. He said today he was fine being left in the game and as a competitor, was not going to remove himself from the game. What would it feel like, Steve, to remove yourself from a game?
- [13:07]
Steve Young
Well, you got to be super careful, Tony, because the quarterback is paid way more than everybody else, gets all the attention, and you're in a really tight spot where you need to be the toughest guy, at least the image of the toughest guy in the field so that you can gather people every week to come fight for you. And so as a quarterback, you. You can't beg off the field. You just. You can't. Now people get hurt, and you gotta. You gotta manage through that. But as a. As a quarterback especially, it's. You're. You've got to be able to show everyone that you're willing to do whatever it takes to stay on the field. And that's. And that's what Carson's really. His knee jerk reflects, is I'm staying on the field. This is, you know, I'm not coming out. You might. I might be out for the season, but I'm still have the adrenaline running me, and I could stay in for a little longer. And people actually on the. On the team respect that. That's just the way football runs.
- [13:59]
Mike Wilbon
Steve. While Carson Wentz was dealing with the physical pain, Justin Fields was dealing with some emotional pain and revealed that he found himself on the floor of his closet crying and praying for just one win, which was difficult to hear. How'd that strike you?
- [14:19]
Steve Young
I mean, it's super vulnerable, right? Which I appreciate. It resonates the pain of losing. And, you know, you've got the owner jabbing at him. You got the coach who won't commit to him. Your teammates are staring at you.
- [14:32]
Mike Wilbon
You.
- [14:33]
Steve Young
I remember times when, you know, you're at the grocery store in line and the clerk's like, you know, ladies, like, what do you think of 49ers? Oh, Steve Young sucks. And then you get on the radio and you're going home. You listen to the radio and the song ends. You're like, what do you think of the 49ers? Steve Young sucks. You know, it's like, where can I go to be safe? And the closet might be the safest place to go, right? Because I remember I finally turned to the classical station because I'm like, they don't care about the 49ers on the classical station. And then box overture number five ends, and it's like, what do you think, 49ers? Steve Tom sucks. You're like there's nowhere you can go. And so in some ways it's very metaphorical. What, he had to go to the closet to cry because that's how painful it was. And that does resonate. I mean, that seems weird, but I can see how things can get that hard.
- [15:22]
Mike Wilbon
Let's go to a happier quarterback question. When I ask you about Drake May and his success throwing the deep ball. Not everybody, even quarterbacks were pretty damn good, have success connecting deep. Steve, what's the secret Sauce?
- [15:38]
Steve Young
There are quarterbacks who are very. Accuracy is, in my mind, you can be slightly more accurate by working at accuracy, but you either have a gift of accuracy or you don't. And along the edges you can get slightly better. And the really most accurate quarterbacks in the world throw with their fingers, their fingertips at the end of the throw. They've still got that ability to kind of guide and direct. And I call them finger throwers, right? And then there's arm throwers. And I know you're gonna be like, what's the difference? You can see it. It's like their whole arm is kind of. Their fingers aren't really as fine tuned. I don't know how else to put it. Drake May, the long ball, the short ball, the crossing route, all, all are part of accuracy. And usually if you're really accurate like Drake is, then you're going to be accurate on the long ball. Because if you see, think about it the best, as he lets the long ball go, his fingers right at the end are the guide. And that's how he comes out of his finger. And when he, you can almost see it, it's smoother. Justin Herbert smoother. And that's that accuracy, that's where your fingers are really in control. Where if you're an arm thrower, your fingers never really get in the space with the ball to kind of guide it. You're never as accurate, you never will be in as much as you work at.
- [16:50]
Tony Kornheiser
That's fascinating. You ought to give a master class on that. Honestly, it's just fascinating. Let me get to the last question. Lamar Jackson is coming off a hamstring injury tomorrow night. As a mobile quarterback, how can you trust that the hamstring will be there for you when you need it?
- [17:07]
Steve Young
I know I never had a hamstring, knock on wood, I'm too old to try to get one now. But I think you're talking about elite athletes, that their body has been their tool since they were little. So the connection to your brain kind of feels like, how does it Feel. No, it's not right. It's not right. It's not right. When you finally get. Look, physical therapy, athletic trainers, and rehabilitation, they're really good at this kind of stuff. They test, and they can test the muscle and kind of see that it's ready to kind of get tested on the field. But as you know, nobody can replicate what's happening on the field now. I think with Lamar, he's becoming such a more sophisticated passer. I'm loving the transformation. I'm watching that. He can. He can protect his hamstring. He doesn't have to. He'll be more normal, more human now. He won't be superhuman speed. And that's fine for Lamar's game. Just get back there, tear him up with the throws, and then he'll still be able to move around. But you never know. You get in a game, Tony, and you make a move, you're like, oh, no, not again. It does happen, and you got to be careful.
- [18:14]
Tony Kornheiser
Pleasure as always, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.
- [18:17]
Steve Young
Tony. I would explain the throwing thing if you wanted to come up the mountain with me.
- [18:23]
Tony Kornheiser
One week. One week with a tie, and this week going up the mountain. Let's take my long story.
- [18:29]
Steve Young
I have a long, deep story that I could tell you of, a sad story of why I don't have a tie right now, but just let it be for this. Just give me the pass. Give me the hall pass.
- [18:38]
Tony Kornheiser
It's okay. You've got it. When we come back, Wilbon and I dig into last night's frozen frenzy.
- [18:45]
Mike Wilbon
And the Bucks were at home. But Giannis still traveled to get the win over the Knicks last night. Tony, Steve did conduct a masterclass for 15 years. 15 years of throwing that.
- [18:59]
Tony Kornheiser
It's really something. It's really something to hear him talk about the.
- [19:03]
Commercial Narrator
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- [20:11]
Steve Young
Pardon the interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea. Hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of happy hour.
- [20:22]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy time, people. Happy 38th birthday, Andy Dalton. Dalton was a second round pick out of 10 TCU by the Bengals in the 2011 draft. In his first four seasons, Dalton went to the playoffs. Cincinnati didn't win any of those games, but it looked like Dalton could be a star. He stayed with Cincinnati through 2019, but they were no longer a playoff team. Dalton was 2:11 as a starter that year. Then he went to Dallas, where he mostly backed up Dak Prescott. Dalton went 45 as the Cowboys starter. When Prescott got hurt, Dalton went from Dallas to Chicago, from Chicago to New Orleans, from New Orleans to Carolina, where he has backed up Bryce young. Though he's 16 as a starter there, including a loss last Sunday to Buffalo. It is a long, lucrative career, if not a glorious one.
- [21:10]
Mike Wilbon
No, but Tony, if you're coachable and you can play some, you can stick around as a backup quarterback and hold that clipboard for more than 50. There's so many examples of it and Andy Dalton is certainly one of them.
- [21:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Do you remember him from Chicago at all?
- [21:28]
Mike Wilbon
Oh, sure. For Justin Fields. Backed up Justin Fields.
- [21:31]
Tony Kornheiser
Absolutely. All right. Happy anniversary, Klay Thompson. On this day seven years ago, Thompson broke Steph Curry's NBA record by hitting 14 threes in only 27 minutes of playing time. In an early season beatdown of your Bulls, Thompson tied the NBA record for threes in one half with 10. And Golden State set another with 17 threes in the first half. Steve Kerr later said, quote, I didn't realize what was happening record wise. Then I heard Clay say, two more, two more. That's when I realized I didn't know who held the record. So I asked Steph, do you have the record? And he goes, yeah. At that point, the guys are just feeding Klay every time, Unquote. Thompson left the warriors the for the Mavericks last season. He is struggling now, averaging just nine points and shooting 28.6% from three.
- [22:21]
Mike Wilbon
Those numbers are totally unfamiliar for Klay Thompson. I root for Klay Thompson. I know he can pull out of this. I hope he has another year plus of greatness in him, Tony, because I think the Mavericks, despite all the tumult of the last year. I think they're on to something. But Klay Thompson's gotta be a real part of that. I hope he is.
- [22:44]
Tony Kornheiser
So you don't think he's done? You don't think that.
- [22:47]
Mike Wilbon
Tony, I'm biased. I hope he isn't. I hope there's another burst. It's early. He can shoot himself out of there. We've seen him do it.
- [22:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Sure, sure, sure. Happy trails to the NHL's frozen frenzy. All 32 teams were in action last night. And Wilbon, I will start by highlighting yours. The Blackhawks beat the Senators behind Conor Bedard's first NHL hat trick. Jack Eichel scored twice on his birthday as the Golden Knights beat the Hurricanes. Leon draisaitl and Connor McDavid combined for three goals as the Oilers gave the Mammoth an L. And Bobby Brink showed off some smooth stick work as the Flyers topped the Penguins in a shootout. How about that? We talked hockey.
- [23:27]
Mike Wilbon
I was thrilled. Blackhawks had seven goals last night. A little worried that it would take Connor Bedard this long into the career to come up with his first hat trick. But it's early. He's young. Let's go, Blackhawks.
- [23:42]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I tuned in for a little while, honestly, because I wanted to see Sidney Crosby, because I think Sidney Crosby is one of the 10 greatest players of all time and I just want to see him. Let's go to the big finish. Giannis and the Bucs beat the Knicks. Is that significant?
- [23:55]
Mike Wilbon
Well, they were 0 for 3 against the Knicks last year. You don't want to keep that up in conference. You know you don't. So it is a big deal. The Lions and Aiden Hutchinson agreed to a four year contract extension. Is that a big deal?
- [24:09]
Tony Kornheiser
It's $141 million guaranteed. It's the highest non quarterback guarantee in football. Bengals quarterback Joe Flacco has a shoulder issue. He's up in the air against the Bears on Sunday. Your thoughts?
- [24:22]
Mike Wilbon
He just lost to a backup quarterback last week in Baltimore, so I'm not going to start throwing a party yet. Steve Kerr says Jonathan Kaminga has earned a starting role moving forward. Are you surprised by that?
- [24:36]
Tony Kornheiser
I am a little bit. I sort of thought he was trade bait over the summer and I sort of thought they didn't get along all that well personally. So, yeah, I'm a little surprised. Last one. You're 3 0. Bulls host the Kings. Are you smelling another win?
- [24:48]
Mike Wilbon
I am, Tony. I love what I've seen. Small sample size from pace and defense and a young core even without Kobe, White is playing really well. So I, you know, I know DeRozan and Lavine are gonna want some revenge. Exactly. But I feel good about the Bulls right now.
- [25:07]
Tony Kornheiser
We are out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [25:11]
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbot. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. And now, here's Ernie, Kenny, Shaq and Chuck.
- [25:20]
Steve Young
A 20 year old soldier goes missing from a U.S. army base.
- [25:25]
Mike Wilbon
How can she go missing on a military base? That's too ridiculous.
- [25:29]
Steve Young
What would come to light is horrifying and ignites a movement that sparks a reckoning in the US Military. Listen to Vanished what Happened to Vanessa? A new series from ABC Audio in 2020.
- [25:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.