Tony Kornheiser (2:41)

So let me just, let me just dismiss one thing you said right away and be on the other side of that. He's not the goat to me. He's not the goat.

Mike Wilbon (2:46)

I know he's not. I know he's not the goat to you.

Tony Kornheiser (2:48)

This was a foregone conclusion because Djokovic always beats Fritz. And when I say always, I mean always. 110 lifetime. That's always. So you could tell right away. I watched the match too. Djokovic went out three loves. So he broke Fritz. The first time Fritz was able to serve, he broke him right away. He won the first two sets so that when Fritz won the third set, it didn't really say to you, oh, he's serious in this match. And if you're looking for any sort of symbolism, Fritz double faulted on match point, I believe. Now again, I'm going to agree with you. Fritz is a very good player. Djokovic is a great player. Don't tell me about the seedings. They are meaningless. He always beats Fritz. And again, let's repeat this. This is the 53rd time he's in the semis at a major, which is the most of anybody ever. I mean, so the question, the looming question now, and you alluded to it, is how far does he go? Can he beat Alcaraz in the semis? Well, he's 3, 0 against Alcaraz. Hard court, lifetime. This hard court, that's what this is. I know Alcaraz has not dropped a set, but Djokovic has personal history that he can lean on in a match like that. Going further, do I think he can beat both Alcarazz if it comes to that, back to back? No, no and no. I don't. And it's because that he's 38. Didn't your boy Shaq, he may not have used the number 38, but he used a close number when he said 38. 28, that's right. So yeah, I don't think he makes that double. That doesn't mean that he's not one of the greatest players anybody has ever seen.

Mike Wilbon (4:26)

I can't let this topic go without having you tell our dear viewers who you think is the goat if it's not joker. And I don't think you're going to put Federer or Nadal Ahead of him. Who you got is the goat.

Tony Kornheiser (4:38)

No, no. I'm going all the way back to Laver because of what I saw. But I'm old enough to have seen Rod Laver and you can come back to me and say that the competition wasn't as good and no, it wasn't as good and they didn't hit it as hard and the rackets weren't the same, but in his domination was the best. Okay, I'm old enough for that, too.

Mike Wilbon (4:58)

Let's move to some college football squabbling beef, we call it. In the wake of LSU's Week 1 win over Clemson, Clemson head coach Dabo Sweeney graded his team as a 58 out of 100 and LSU's as a 65, adding that, quote, neither one of us was great. Close quote, to which LSU coach Brian Kelly responded, quote, I thought we dominated them in the second half. So he's either a really good grader for giving himself a 58, or he's a really hard grader on us. Close quote. Tony, is Kelly right? Is Dabo right? Is anybody right?

Tony Kornheiser (5:36)

Okay, so let's just hold on a second and examine this. Dabo Sweeney gave his team a 58. That's an F, an F grade 58. And somehow Brian Kelly thinks he's being good to his team. Brian Kelly, and I want to get this right. I'm pretty sure at some point he said, did he see the second half?

Mike Wilbon (5:56)

Did he even see it?

Tony Kornheiser (5:58)

Because Kelly is so convinced that how good LSU was in the second half. Mike, Brian Kelly is killing Dabo Sweeney here. That's what he's doing. He just beat him by seven points and he is killing him. Davos Sweeney has won two national championships. Brian Kelly has one. Last time I looked, zero national championships. And he's killing this guy. I mean, what is next, a steel cage death match for these two? I want to remind people that Brian Kelly left Notre Dame to go to LSU to win a national championship. He said that specifically and said it that it would be easier to win at LSU than Notre Dame. He said it with a Southern accent. He's been there three full now. This is his fourth year. He has not made the playoffs. This was the first time he even won his opening game. And I will repeat, he's killing this guy. He's killing Sweeney.

Mike Wilbon (6:49)

One of the things you should never really ever, ever, ever do is pay much attention or put any real stock in anything a college football coach says. Unless it's like Lou Holtz. And he was being so funny. Remember when Lou Holtz was like a pre dinner speaker like 50 years ago. And Lou Holtz was funny. I mean make you laugh. Other than that, stop quoting college football coaches cuz they're gonna say things that infuriate you. They say things full of agenda. This is agenda on both their parts. It's okay if all you're gonna be is entertained, which is what you and I are by this to some mild degree. I'm not paying attention to their grades. I don't want them grading me or anything I'm associated with. I don't want grades posted by their institutions particularly. So I just look at this and say, you know what, let them just keep babbling. We're going to go on to another topic.

Tony Kornheiser (7:51)

I will say this though, and that's fine. I will say this though. It is ridiculous to give LSU a grade of 65, which is a D grade. They just went on the road. Yeah, they beat your team 14 Nothing in the second half on the road. So you got to give them at least a C. You got to give them at least a 70 or a 75. But again, the larger story here is, is that Brian Kelly is specifically killing Dabo Sweeney. We move now to baseball where last night Houston pitcher from Bear Valdez was apparently livid with his catcher Cesar Salazar. Yankees had the bases loaded. Salazar wanted Valdez not to pitch. Valdez ignored that and threw a pitch that Trent Grisham hit for a grand slam. And then on the second pitch to the next Yankee batter, Valdez seemed to deliberately throw a pitch his catcher was not expecting hitting him in the chest. Valdez turned his back on the catcher without inquiry. After the game, both Valdez and Salazar insisted the cross up was not intentional. Oh, Wilbur, what did you see?

Mike Wilbon (8:49)

Tony, I'm confused because I don't believe the explanations. I played enough baseball and covered enough baseball to have some sense of the miscommunication that occasionally happens between pitcher and catcher. Even in these days when you're not putting down finger signals as they did for the first 150 years of major League Baseball, catchers get crossed up. Pitchers, you know, either can't control the pitch or they change their minds or they throw something they shouldn't have thrown or the signals either newfangled or old fashioned get crossed and catchers lunge the ball tips and goes somewhere else and it looks like a pass ball. But this was not a breaking pitch. And usually when there's some kind of cross up like that, a breaking pitch is involved. It wasn't. The ball is straight and it hits him, but. Okay, I don't. What Valdez did. What. What did he do? Here we see these miscommunications. I don't understand what happened is what I'm saying. And I don't believe that there's just one party here who's a bad guy. I'll take Valdez still, by the way, to open my series in these pitching poor times and pitching uncertain times, where in the postseason you have bullpen days. I'll still take Valdez.

Tony Kornheiser (10:05)

Yeah. And you know, we're going to disagree on this one to some degree here. When I look at this, I see that Houston has a problem. A pitcher cannot dislike his catcher. A pitcher cannot throw at his catcher. In this case, Valdez is a Cy Young quality pitcher. This catcher, I was told this was only his 14th start in the major league. So if I'm throwing somebody over the side, I'm going to throw the catcher over the side. But having said that, you can't do what that pitcher did. It's wrong, it's bad. You could have hurt the catcher. There is reporting, additional reporting that says that Valdez had a problem with a different catcher last year and that he is demonstrative when people make bad plays.

Mike Wilbon (10:49)

Valdez is a wild. No doubt.

Tony Kornheiser (10:52)

So. So maybe. Maybe there's a problem here. But I will say this. When I look at. I understand that they say it wasn't intentional. Mike, When I look at it, it looks 100% intentional.

Mike Wilbon (11:04)

Okay?

Tony Kornheiser (11:04)

It does to me.

Mike Wilbon (11:05)

It fastballs down the middle. Shouldn't be that big a deal. And that's what it was. The pitch had no discernible break. So move your glove.

Tony Kornheiser (11:14)

Then he turned away. But when he turned away.

Mike Wilbon (11:17)

Don't turn away.

Tony Kornheiser (11:18)

He turned away. He didn't even inquire.

Mike Wilbon (11:19)

Valdez turned away.

Tony Kornheiser (11:21)

Yes. So we differ on that. We differ on that. Let's take a break. Coming up, the Mets appear to have a rookie phenom on the mound. What's the word for his.

Mike Wilbon (11:32)

And does Oklahoma State's Mike Gundy, uh, oh, have good reason to go after Oregon's finances?

Tony Kornheiser (11:41)

I would. I mean, look, I would take Valdez in a heartbeat. He's a terrific pitcher. But in this case, I. I thought he threw at him.

Mike Wilbon (11:49)

He's such a Carlos Zambrano to him. But I'll take him, too.

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Tony Kornheiser (13:44)

It's time to get down and wordy with Wilbon and What's the word? What's first? Nolan McLean's rookie performance for the Mets has been blank. I'm going to say Seaver like either Seaver like or Gooden like either one is okay. They were spectacular pitchers when they were young. On the Mets, McClain at the moment, Mike is 4 0. He just beat the Tigers, a first place team. His ERA is 137 and he has 28 strikeouts in 26 innings. The history of the Mets is such that they always had really good pitchers. They had Seaver, they had Gooden, they had John Matlak, they had Jerry Kuzman. Didn't they have DeGrom? They had David Cohen and our favorite guy, Ron Darling. Their pitchers have always been better than their hitters. Now I know you want me to say Nolan Ryan because I go back a long way with Nolan Ryan, but with the Mets, Nolan Ryan was the sort of average pitcher. He became a great pitcher with the Angels and then Houston and Texas. This kid at the moment looks like this year's Paul Skeens. Not your boy, the Miz. This kid right now.

Mike Wilbon (14:50)

I'm stunned at you. I am so stunned. I'm speechless because you compared this kid to Seaver and Gooden. You should be put on some sort of probation for doing this, for comparing him to either one of them. And we can call Ron Darling at the end of the show. I'm gonna say, Ron, please make sure you go back and review Kornheiser's performance for absurdly say, for overstating.

Tony Kornheiser (15:19)

I was a Mexican and so my.

Mike Wilbon (15:20)

Word is I was a mistake.

Tony Kornheiser (15:22)

Four. Okay?

Mike Wilbon (15:23)

Four starts. Are you kidding?

Tony Kornheiser (15:26)

What good starts?

Mike Wilbon (15:28)

You're on probation.

Tony Kornheiser (15:29)

Good starts.

Mike Wilbon (15:29)

The white coat should be taken off of you and put on a hangar. For comparing this kid. You're doing him a disservice. This kid is now going to go nuts and say, oh my God, a lifelong Mets fan has compared me to Seaver and Gooden.

Tony Kornheiser (15:48)

What? They were good. They were really good. Now he's four and oh, come on. Now he's four and oh,. Looks pretty good at the moment. I'm not saying he's going to be 9 and 0. I'm saying he's 4 and 0 at the moment. What's next?

Commercial/Announcer (15:59)

Mike Gundy's comments about Oregon's football budget are blank.

Tony Kornheiser (16:05)

Well, they are self serving. Mike Gundy is complaining, I guess about all the Nike money that ends up at Oregon and ends up in the various programs, football, basketball, whatever. And I think he's also suggesting that it's sort of unfair for a school like Oregon with all this money to play against Oklahoma State. Now this is, this is Mike Gundy of I'm 40, I'm a man and this is Mike Gundy. Last year was 3 and 9 and now he's trying to tell us that Oklahoma State should apply for food stamps. This is ridiculous. They've been a very competitive team for a long time under, under Gundy they have been. Look, this is the way of the world now. You can overtly pay players now. That's how it works. And I mean, I think that Gundy knows that and he's got to go out and pay players and don't make it seem like there's no money in Oklahoma. Don't do that. I mean, first of all, go to the Oklahoma State golfers on the golf tour doing so well and get some nil money from them or go to the Oklahoma City Thunder and say for the good of the state. Give us some money. But this is self serving.

Mike Wilbon (17:11)

It's also jealous and hypocritical because Coach Gundy coaches at a place where T. Boone Pickens lorded over the entire department and all the programs as the greatest sugar daddy in the plains for years until he passed away in 2019. So there's the hypocrisy you're pointing at Oregon when you had one of the richest men in the world lavish your program and all the programs at your schools for your school for how long? I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable how hypocritical that is. And jealous because all he wants to do is have that much money to do it again. Now that you can pay directly the players, as you mentioned.

Tony Kornheiser (18:00)

Just let me say this one thing. The last time I looked, with all the money Oregon had, they didn't win the national championship last year. Texas A and M's loaded. What did they win? It's not a guarantee. It's not a guarantee just because you have money. That's the word.

Mike Wilbon (18:14)

By the way, they're playing UT Martin. UT Martin. You think UT Martin's got that big budget as they go against Coach Gundy? Huh?

Tony Kornheiser (18:23)

Who do you think is playing UT Lewis for people old enough to remember them? Let's take one last break. Still to come, Kyle Freeland we'll want to remember Kyle Freeland has a problem.

Mike Wilbon (18:32)

I can't.

Tony Kornheiser (18:33)

Rafael Devers. He's not the only one with a problem. He's not the only one.

Mike Wilbon (18:36)

And the Sox get some bad news. A prized rookie. Roman Anthony. He's a stud.

Tony Kornheiser (18:43)

Who remembers Martin and Lewis?

Mike Wilbon (18:45)

I do. Me.

Tony Kornheiser (18:46)

Me. I do. But I'm on probation. Yeah, probation.

Mike Wilbon (18:51)

Ron Darling's on line six.

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Tony Kornheiser (21:14)

Happy time people. Happy 94th birthday Dick motto. It was Motta who, while he was coaching the Washington Bullets, uttered the great phrase the opera ain't over till the fat lady sings as a way of of telling Bullets fans, we're still in this. Indeed, Motta won a championship in Washington, beating the Seattle SuperSonics in seven games in 1978. Mata started his coaching career in college at Weber State, then went to the Chicago Bulls, where he coached from 1968 to 1976. Wilbon. You remember Motta's teams with Van Leer and Sloan?

Mike Wilbon (21:46)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (21:46)

Mata went from Chicago to Washington, where he was in two finals. He also coached Dallas, Sacramento and Denver. In all model won 935 NBA games and lost 1017.

Mike Wilbon (21:58)

Everything I believe in in basketball came from my time as a kid watching Dick Motta's teams with, as you said, Sloan, Van Leer, love Chet Walker, Bob Love Chet Walker and Tom Borwickle. Everything. And it's just, man, I'm just glad that we can celebrate a 94th birthday. Any birthday for the great Dick Motto.

Tony Kornheiser (22:20)

Happy Anniversary. Panthers and Jaguars on this day 30 years ago, the expansion Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars played their first official NFL games. In the ensuing years, despite early successes for both franchises, neither team has won a Super Bowl. The Panthers have gotten there twice. The Jaguars not at all. Even with playoff teams four straight years, from 1996 through 1999, neither franchise has any real sizzle. The Panthers biggest star was probably Cam Newton. The Jaguars have been largely unknown. Neither team is close to.500 these 30 years. Carolina is 219, 264 1. Jacksonville is 202, 282 0. And neither team feels like a playoff team this year.

Mike Wilbon (23:03)

It's a great spin move we saw from Fred Taylor of the Jaguars. But the most famous Jacksonville player has to be Tony Pucello. Right? Hall of Famer Tony Boselli. Tony Boseli gotta be so not entirely unknown, but I hear you.

Tony Kornheiser (23:18)

Yeah. Happy trails to last night's game for Rockies pitcher Kyle Freeland. Freeland was ejected along with two Giants after a big beef in the top of the first. It happened after Rafael Devers pounded a Freeland pitch over the right field wall. Freeland barked at Devers for standing and watching it. Devers yelled back. And the benches then empty. After the game, Freeland said he felt Devers was trying to show him up, calling it, quote, extremely disrespectful. Devers said he didn't do anything different than he usually does. Personally, I thought Devers pimped it out a little bit. What did you think?

Mike Wilbon (23:50)

I think these are two irrelevant teams. And I was annoyed that that story got so much attention last night. We're in September. It's time to look at real teams playing real baseball, even if they're not in New York and Boston. But don't give me those two, cuz those two are outta here.

Tony Kornheiser (24:08)

I'm gonna tell you that I thought that. That whole thing. I think it took Devers ultimately like eight minutes to go around nine minutes. And the thing and. Yeah, and the thing with Franbert Valdez. Those two stories were visually tremendous for me. They were great too. I wouldn't have normally seen them or cared about the teams. Let's go to the big finish if we can. The Athletic reports that UConn coach Dan Hurley considered retiring for a booth job last season. Are you surprised by that?

Mike Wilbon (24:33)

A little bit. But if you win, you win two, you went back to back.

Tony Kornheiser (24:36)

I mean, what.

Mike Wilbon (24:37)

Well, how much is left? How many have won? That much? More than that. I'm just asking. Coach K. Stick around for a while. Red Sox rookie Roman Anthony will be out four to six weeks with an oblique strain. That's significant, isn't it?

Tony Kornheiser (24:50)

Yes. He's batting.291. His on base percentage is.396. Look, Washington Nationals player Dylan Cruz had this was out for months. The Cubs arresting Kyle Tucker tonight with calf tightness. Is that cause for concern?

Mike Wilbon (25:03)

Yes. Tucker won last night's game with the three run homer. And he had just come out of his earlier slump and started hitting these last couple of weeks. Hate to see Tucker out of the lineup even for a game or two. Ohio State tops the new AP college football poll. You okay with that?

Tony Kornheiser (25:19)

Yeah. They beat Texas, which was allegedly number one. I'm okay with it. What? Last one. Shohei is the fastest Dodger in history to 100 home runs. Are you impressed? Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (25:28)

And then I start thinking about it. How many great Dodger home run hitters are there? Is Shohei, like, gonna be number one in, like a week?

Tony Kornheiser (25:37)

Yeah. Duke Snyder is it. That's a pitching team. Just like the Mets. We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. And I'm Tony Kornhouse.

Mike Wilbon (25:43)

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. You've seen the headlines, heard the debates.

Tony Kornheiser (25:48)

The three point ball has created a.

Mike Wilbon (25:50)

Monotonous rhythm to the game. Has the three pointer ruined Baske? And how did we get here? The rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric.

Commercial/Announcer (25:59)

Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story.

Mike Wilbon (26:02)

Didn'T turn out quite the way he imagined. I decided I wanted to have one.

Tony Kornheiser (26:07)

Of the most organized goodbyes in history.

Mike Wilbon (26:09)

30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven. Available now wherever you get your podcasts.