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Mike Wilbon
pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon on assignment in Chicago.
Tony Kornheiser
I'm Tony Kornheiser. That assignment ribeye with Waddle and Sylvie. Right. At Chicago Cut free food for you, right?
Mike Wilbon
Accurate?
Tony Kornheiser
Could be. You know, when was the last time you paid for meal there?
Mike Wilbon
Are you suggesting I'm on scholarship? Are you suggesting that?
Tony Kornheiser
Scholarship, that's a good word for it. That's what I say to my children. You're on scholarship. That's good. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, the Celtics send Jaylen Brown for the Sixers. Junior Caminero and Dansby Swanson are tearing it up and Cristiano Ronaldo is back on the pitch tonight. But we begin today with the United States beating Bosnia Herzegovina last night, two nothing in the knockout round and advancing to the round of 16 in the World Cup. The United States first goal was scored by Foleren Baligan, who later in the game was given a red card and tossed from the game. The United States had to play the last 30 minutes of the game down a man, even scoring their second goal with 10 men out there. Wilbon, what did you make of what you saw from the United States team last night?
Mike Wilbon
Well, Tom, my takeaway, as we say nowadays, is just what you ended that question with. To play that long, 30 plus minutes shorthanded, as we would say, you know, as if it's a power play, you know, for Bosnia to play shorthanded like that against a European team that is at least, you know, regarded evenly overall as the United States team. To play that way, to score, to win. Wow. I, I, I, I don't think that many people saw that coming. Even, I don't know, six, eight weeks ago when the United States was at time maybe struggling with friendlies. And there's all the questioning about Pochettino and what he was able to, gonna be able to get out of this group. You have all these questions coming at you and then the United States delivers like this. I know it's at home, I know it's a game that everybody associated with feels that the United States should win. Okay. But the conditions of it, to me, you know, these guys may be pretty tough minded. This could go a little bit.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. I don't want to get too carried away here because I don't agree that we are on an equal footing with Bosnia Herzegovina. I don't. We are ranked 15th in the world and they are ranked 61st. So I think we should win that game, particularly because it's at home. But we did win that game. We pitched another shutout. We scored multiple goals again, and we won a game when we were down a man for 30 minutes. I mean, it's hard for me not to believe this is a big deal. This is only the second time ever that the United States has won a knockout round game, but we won it. So I think there's some celebration in order. We get Belgium next. You're more of a soccer guy than I am, but I don't think Belgium is France. I don't think they're Argentina. Belgium was lucky to beat Senegal. They had a huge comeback to do that. Maybe that's all they got. And we're going to be home again. This is going to be in Seattle. Everybody's here for us.
Mike Wilbon
We're missing an important player to scored that goal at bogus records. Totally bogus.
Tony Kornheiser
And you know what? And that's why they pay Pochettino the money they pay him. Because now Pochettino has already in one shot with this team, has more wins than any other coach ever. The United States men's national team. And after the game last night and I was not up, but I was told about this. Pochettino was out there singing. Let me get the words right. Take me home, country roads to the place I belong. West Virginia. What are the odds he's ever been to West Virginia? I'm going on the under on that. But he knows what he's doing.
Mike Wilbon
Yeah, well, I was outside singing by Tavern on Rush last night, so that's. That's another whole story. Hope there's no video. I hope there's no video of that. Let's move to the big trade in the NBA. The Celtics sent Jaylen Brown to their division rival Sixers for Paul George. Tony's fave 2/1.2. As we know, Brown was your MVP choice for most of last season and third on my official final ballot. So, Tony, what then does this deal do for the Sixers? And where does it leave the seas?
Tony Kornheiser
I'm amazed by this trade. I'm amazed that all they got for Jaylen Brown was Paul George, who, you know, I consider to be one of the most overrated, overpaid players in the league. You got an MVP candidate, and all you get for him is this guy. And just for some numbers. Paul George, in his most recent season, averaged 17 points, five rebounds and four assists. Jaylen Brown averaged 29 points, seven rebounds and five assists. And you trade. You make this trade in division, like to a longtime rival. I mean, I think people remember Larry Bird and Julius Erving, and they remember Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. I mean, it's hard for me to see how Boston is better with this trade. And I think Philadelphia is significantly better right now. If Joel Embiid ever gets on the court, they are a better team than the Celtics right now. So I'm thinking, Mike, I'm thinking maybe there's something else. Maybe Brad Stevens has something else up his sleeve, because you can't just get Paul George. Paul George has now been traded for Shay Gilgis Alexander and Jalen Brown. Two guys with rings, great players. How many rings Paul George got? Remind me. I think it's less than 1. I think.
Mike Wilbon
Yeah. There's a couple of things I care about with this deal, Tony. One of them is that people don't seem to be saying, and I said this going back to when Jaylen Brown signed his deal that was going to pay him $302 million. I think after, you know, a season or so, whenever it was a year after Tatum had signed a deal that was going to bring him $3 million. I'm sorry, $302 million. And I said then, and I'll say it now, repeat it. Anybody who thought the Celtics were going to pay Both those guys $600 million would be a fool. They were never going to pay those two guys that amount of money. One of them was going to go, and it's Jaylen Brown who's going to go. Because if you spend any time around that team or in New England, and I have during basketball seasons all their 10 years, Tatum is beloved. Brown is respected. Tatum is beloved. Tatum's the face of the Celtics. They were not going to get rid of him. They were going to get rid of Brown, and that's the way that went. So we'll skip all the reasons that go into who's respected, who's beloved. The trade itself, I don't get. You can't get that same deal from Denver, which needs somebody to go with Joker. You can't get that same deal from, I don't know From Orlando who might have a forward you might want to pair with Jayson Tatum. You can't get that deal from somebody trying to build something like the Bulls. Are you kidding me? You got to trade him to Philly. And like you, Tony, I look at that and I just say, my God, why would I do that? You know, I don't want to get too deep in the weeds. There's somebody pulling some strings for Philly. I think I want to call and lay great praise on later, Bob Myers, because what Philly did was a heist.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, that's what I think. And it's interesting to me. I mean, I do love Jaylen Brown, but maybe there's something in analytics about this trade, because I have to concede this, Mike. There is Jaylen Brown when he does not play for the Celtics. The Celtics are actually better. In his career there, the Celtics are 90. And 36 when he's not playing last three seasons, 36, 6 when he's not playing last year, 8 and 2 when he doesn't play. I don't know how to explain that, but maybe that's a function of this trade to some degree.
Mike Wilbon
Let's say, big chip to put on his shoulder. He starts to see. And he should be saying, let's see how those numbers work when I have a crack at this. Let's see.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Let's go to baseball on hot streaks. Junior Caminero of Tampa Bay hit another home run last night, the sixth straight game he has hit a home run. And Dansby Swanson of The Cubs had three hits, which were all homers and eight RBI. Swanson now has a Cubs record, 26 RBI in his last 10 games. Wilbon. Who is on the more impressive heater, Caminero or Swanson?
Mike Wilbon
I ain't paying attention to Caminero. Sorry. So I'm paying, as you know, much attention to him as I am golf right now. Dansby Swanson on June 20th was hitting.183. He was benched. Let me say it again.183 and benched. Reduced roll was the official phrasing of it. Okay. Since then, Tony, you said 26 RBI in 10 games. That's the most ever by a Cub. He's now up to fifth in Major League Baseball in rbi, a significant category to old people like you and me. He's among the league leaders in shortstop, in war, the Cubs after. I mean, The Cubs have 182 people just on the pitching staff on the IR, but they've now won 15 to 19 with Swanson having these massive games, including three home runs yesterday and eight runs batted in. Dansby Swanson, getting it done. I don't care who you got, I'm taking him, okay?
Tony Kornheiser
So I tried. I tried to figure out a way to figure out a way as to which guy was on the more impressive heater. And I looked. I thought maybe one team would be doing better. And in the six straight games that Caminero has hit home runs, Tampa Bay is 6 and 0. But in the 10 games where Swanson has all these RBI, 26 RBI, the Cubs are 9 1. So that's sort of a wash. And then I looked at age, because Caminero is the youngest guy to ever hit in six straight home runs, right? He's very young. He's 23. And Swanson is 32. And so maybe that is something to do, but it's not about age. It's about production right now. Swanson, 26 RBI in 10 games is astonishing to me. But then you look at Caminero. He's got 17 6. That, too, was almost a wash. So I knew that when we got on the air, I knew what would happen, because whenever we have one of these debates, inevitably you pick the guy from Chicago. You pick Michael Jordan, you pick Mike Ditka, you pick Patrick Kane, you pick Fergie Jenkins, you pick Gale Sayers. So I knew you would pick Dansby Swanson. So I can pick the other guy. I can pick Caminero, who at the moment, may be the greatest power hitter Tampa Bay's ever had. Because you don't think of power hitting with Tampa Bay ever. And if you. If you voted for MVP right now in the American League, he'd be the mvp, I think, because the best player on the best team, I think. I think I'd vote for him. Let's take a break. Coming up, Cristiano Ronaldo scored twice in his last World cup game. So how important is tonight's match for him?
Mike Wilbon
And Paul Skeens is struggling. What's the word for that?
Tony Kornheiser
I was wrong. Cabanero will be 23 this weekend. He's actually 22 right now. Got a lot of years with this guy.
Mike Wilbon
Listen, the Cubs, 15, 19. I mean, they've turned it around, like the third turnaround this season, but I didn't see this one coming.
Tony Kornheiser
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Tony Kornheiser
Time for word play with Wilbon. What's first?
Mike Wilbon
Tonight's game against Croatia is blank for Cristiano Ronaldo.
Tony Kornheiser
Reputational Wilbon, you had Cristiano Ronaldo as the goat for years and you always said he was better than Messi. Do you know that he has never scored a single goal in a World cup knockout game? He has 10 goals in six different World Cups, all in the group stages. Seven of those 10 are against the worst team in the group. He has played in eight knockout games. He has no goals. If Messi had come up with that resume, you would have said get him out of here. So it seems to me at 41 years old, when Ronaldo has said this is his last World cup, it seems to me that if he wants to reverse this trend, if he wants to burnish his reputation, tonight is the night.
Mike Wilbon
It's a little late for that, it seems to me, Tony. But I will say ego maintaining, that's my word. For many of the same reasons you just said. It's because all the goats, young or old, Messi, Mbappe, Kane and Holland, they're all playing, they are all delivering. They are killing it. So far in the World Cup, Ronaldo has the two goals in the last appearance he does in a knockout game, in a knockout situation, which he's not been good in, he needs to produce and if he can, at 41 years old and Tony, in the past when the team wasn't in a position to help Ronaldo be as great as he was, they weren't. He wasn't playing on Argentina. He was playing for Portugal, which isn't Argentina. He was really good, though. Not great. Now his team, Portugal is better. They are much better than he played to a Level, which is becoming of a person of his stature. Ego. Maintaining.
Tony Kornheiser
We'll see what's next.
Mike Wilbon
Paul Skeens should feel blank about yesterday's start.
Tony Kornheiser
Like hiding. I understand that that's two words, but he gave up a career high seven earned runs right in four innings against the Phillies. Now, the Phillies can hit, but Skeens hasn't been very good all year. If I have this correct, the last six times he has taken a hill. The Pirates have lost. And in those six games, Skeens is.06 and his ERA, Mike, is 5.36. He's the reigning Cy Young guy. The Pirates are 6 and 12 when they gave him the ball this year, 37 and 33 with everybody else. So my position that he's much better than Misorowski is insane now. I cannot maintain that position. What hurts him even more is in his first 55 starts, he averaged, I think it was 26 pitches of 98 miles an hour or better average that in the last three starts, he's only reached that number four times. And meanwhile, the Miz is at 103. So I got to back off that statement.
Mike Wilbon
Thank you. I'm glad you beat me to that, because I was coming. Coming hard for you. He should feel miserable. Miserable about last night.
Tony Kornheiser
I see what you did.
Mike Wilbon
Right, because he's getting chumped by the Miz right now after you had pronounced him Nolan Ryan. All right? You had him, Walter Johnson and Nolan Ryan. And being serious, because, look, I'm not hating on starting pitchers who are as talented, okay, as schemes. His velocity's dropping and you just go, oh, no, I hope this doesn't mean anything. I hope it's just some, like some virus and you can take something and get over it quickly because, you know, Major League Baseball needs guys like Skeens and Miz, even if they're both in my division and we gotta play against them with my whole staff hurt. But right now, the Miz is making him look like a chump right now.
Tony Kornheiser
No, you're right. And you're also right about the other thing that you just. You live in dread that there's Tommy John in someone's future when their velocity falls off like that.
Mike Wilbon
No, that's the final word.
Tony Kornheiser
Let's take one last break. But still to come, Alex Ovechkin decides whether he will keep playing.
Mike Wilbon
And does England's coach write that his team won't be able to adapt to the Mexico City altitude by Sunday?
Tony Kornheiser
Yes. He is right. He can't do that. It's 100%, right?
Mike Wilbon
That's right.
Tony Kornheiser
He's right. Wow. That. That's a huge advantage. Mexico never loses there, right?
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Tony Kornheiser
Happy time people. Happy 47th birthday. Joe Thornton, the longtime center for Boston and San Jose, was voted into the NHL hall of Fame last year. Thornton was the number one overall pick by the Bruins in 1997 and played the most games ever by a number one overall pick. 1,714. In 2006, Thornton became the first player ever named MVP in a season when he was traded. He went from Boston to San Jose just 23 games into that season. In all, Thornton played 24 seasons, ending up on Toronto and Florida for a season each. Thornton scored 430 goals and had 1,109 assists, which is seventh all time, but looking at eighth because Sidney Crosby is only two assists behind him. Thornton is 14th all time in total points, but never played on a Stanley cup winner, though he has a Stanley cup worthy beard.
Mike Wilbon
Ha. Such a great playmaker. Tony Point of trivia. The last dude on any of the four North American team sports to play in the 1990s. Old people like us like that. Respect that.
Tony Kornheiser
Respect absolutely. Happy Anniversary, Mike Brown. On this day last year, word got out that after a prolonged search following the firing of Tom Thibodeau that the Knicks had decided to offer the job to Brown. Brown had twice been NBA Coach of the Year, once in Cleveland and once in Sacramento, but he had also been fired by those teams as well as by the Lakers. The nature of coaching in the pros is to be a vagabond at the moment, Brown looks to be the best tire in the world. He was criticized at times for lack of defense, but his Knicks had an unprecedented playoff run and beat San Antonio for the NBA title. For his career as a coach, Brown has a.604 winning percentage in the regular season,606 winning percentage in the playoffs.
Mike Wilbon
You knew how much I love Mike Brown, Tony, who I've known for a while. I'm just so happy for him given what he's been through those firings and being rehired first. Just the nicest person in the world. I've been fortunate enough to be able to watch playoff games with Mike Brown at his place when he wasn't working when he was fired. So I am thrilled to see him get that championship in New York.
Tony Kornheiser
Happy trails to retirement for Alex Ovechkin. The NHL's all time leading goal scorer will return to the capitals for a 22nd season on a one year deal worth up to $8 million. The nearly 41 year old scored 32 goals for the Caps last season. In other hockey news, the Oilers will take another stab at solving their goaltending issues with Frederick Anderson, who had a 121 playoff run for the Hurricanes through the conference finals before giving way in the Stanley cup finals to Brandon Bussey. Anderson later revealed he had suffered a knee injury. The 36 year old played well under new Oilers head coach Mike Babcock when both were in Toronto.
Mike Wilbon
Was there any doubt in your mind you followed this day to day as we both followed his whole career, that 8 was coming back for more? Or did you think, whoa, wait a minute, between finances and age and just wanting to do something else with his life, that Ovechkins could just call it a day?
Tony Kornheiser
No, I mean the Capitals have gotten better and they offered it to him and he scored 32 goals last year. I don't think he thinks that he's
Mike Wilbon
good enough to play. Okay.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. So I think that means something. One omission. We talked about the Miz earlier. He and the brewers lost to the Reds today. 7 2. With the Miz giving up five runs, yet only one earned. His ERA for the season is 1.47. That's better than Skeen's at the moment. Let's go to the big finish. Tim Hardaway senior will not let his son wear his retired number 10 on the heat. Does that make sense to you?
Mike Wilbon
I get it. But I know Tim hard. If I see him in town, our hometown this weekend, I would try to talk him out of this. I got a feeling he's going to soften. I get it. Let your son carve his own path. But the jersey, it can stay in the Raptor and be on his back. I like both things. Kyle Schwarber tells SI he will join the Home Run Derby in Philly as long as he's healthy and makes the team. You like the chances of both those?
Tony Kornheiser
Well, he's going to make the team. He's a co coiled snake at the plate. Come on. He's got 30 home runs. He leads the majors. He'll win the Home Run Derby at home. The NBA will test a rule in summer league where one free throw would count for one, two or three points, depending on the case, until the last two minutes in overtime when the old rules apply. Do you like this?
Mike Wilbon
This is frighteningly embarrassing. Even the discussion of it is disgusting. Let's ask Reggie Miller. Let's ask one of the great shooters of all time, from the line or anywhere else, whether he thinks this is. Stop with this. England's head coach says the team won't be able to adapt to the altitude in Mexico City before Sunday's game. You agree?
Tony Kornheiser
Of course I agree. It's a mile and a half up. It's an enormous advantage for Mexico.
Mike Wilbon
Aspen.
Tony Kornheiser
That's crazy. Last one. Serena and Venus are reportedly a go to play doubles at win Wimbledon on Saturday. I bet you're excited.
Mike Wilbon
It's okay. That's not like seeing Serena play singles. I know. She didn't win. I was more excited for that. But I'll take them playing doubles. But on this altitude thing. Back to that real quickly, Tony. I was hitting wedges like 165 yards in Aspen. This is like Aspen elevation.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, 165 on a wedge? Yes, some. Somebody's got a dope test, too. That's unbelievable. We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. And Bill Shuman, thank you for watching.
Mike Wilbon
I'm Mike Wilbond. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. Here, the Sports center, the most memorable gifts aren't found, they're made. Zazzle is a custom marketplace where you pick any product, a mug, a card, a tote, a phone case, and make it personal. A photo, a name, an inside joke. The kind of gift that actually fits the person. That's what 30 million customers have been coming back to Zazzle for over 20 years to find. Right now, save 25% on your first order@zazzle.com. that's zazzle.com. make it zamazing.
Episode Title: USMNT Advances, Jaylen Brown Dealt, Skenes Struggles
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser, Michael Wilbon
This episode of PTI dives into three major storylines across sports:
The episode is filled with Tony and Mike’s trademark banter, quick analysis, and a mix of skepticism and celebration on sports' hottest storylines.
[00:56 - 04:18]
Match Recap:
Tony sets the scene: The United States beats Bosnia Herzegovina 2–0 in the World Cup's knockout round, despite playing the last 30 minutes with 10 men after Balogun’s red card.
Wilbon’s Take:
“To play that long, 30 plus minutes shorthanded...against a European team that is at least, you know, regarded evenly overall as the United States team. To play that way, to score, to win—wow...these guys may be pretty tough minded.” (01:40)
Tony’s Perspective:
Tony points out that the U.S. was always expected to win (ranked 15th to Bosnia’s 61st) but concedes, “We won a game when we were down a man for 30 minutes...this is only the second time ever the United States has won a knockout round game.” (02:48)
Coach Pochettino:
Praised for his results and charisma, Tony notes, “[Pochettino] has more wins than any other coach ever [for USMNT]...after the game...he was out there singing ‘Take Me Home, Country Roads.’” (03:47)
Next Match Hopes:
“We get Belgium next…I don’t think Belgium is France…I think Philadelphia [the USMNT] is significantly better…maybe that’s all [Belgium] got. And we’re going to be home again—this is going to be in Seattle. Everybody’s here for us.” (02:48–03:41, paraphrased)
[04:18 - 08:17]
Trade Details: Celtics send Jaylen Brown to divisional rival 76ers for Paul George.
Tony’s Reaction:
“I’m amazed by this trade. I’m amazed that all they got for Jaylen Brown was Paul George, who, you know, I consider to be one of the most overrated, overpaid players in the league.” (04:56)
Stat Comparisons:
“Paul George...averaged 17 points, five rebounds, and four assists. Jaylen Brown averaged 29 points, seven rebounds, and five assists.” (05:25)
Wilbon’s Analysis:
On why Brown was moved:
“Anybody who thought the Celtics were going to pay both those guys $600 million would be a fool… Tatum is beloved. Brown is respected. Tatum’s the face of the Celtics… So we’ll skip all the reasons... The trade itself, I don’t get.” (06:05)
On trade partner:
“You got to trade him to Philly? …I look at that and I just say, my God, why would I do that? ...What Philly did was a heist.” (06:52)
Tony on Analytics: “There is Jaylen Brown when he does not play for the Celtics. The Celtics are actually better. In his career there, the Celtics are 90 and 36 when he’s not playing… Last year, 8 and 2 when he doesn’t play.” (07:51)
Wilbon on Brown’s Motivation:
“Big chip to put on his shoulder... he should be saying, let’s see how those numbers work when I have a crack at this.” (08:17)
[08:27 - 11:17]
Streaks:
Wilbon’s Vote:
“I ain’t paying attention to Caminero. Sorry...Dansby Swanson...since June 20th was hitting .183, benched…Now up to fifth in Major League Baseball in RBI...He’s among the league leaders in shortstop, in WAR... Cubs have won 15 of 19 with Swanson having these massive games… Dansby Swanson, getting it done. I don’t care who you got, I’m taking him.” (08:48)
Tony’s Take:
Calls it a wash on team impact but picks Caminero:
“Maybe the greatest power hitter Tampa Bay’s ever had... If you voted for MVP right now in the American League, he’d be the MVP, I think.” (09:48)
Wilbon pokes fun at Tony:
“Whenever we have one of these debates, inevitably you pick the guy from Chicago.” (09:50, paraphrased)
[12:48 - 16:50]
[12:50 - 14:44]
Tony:
“Tonight’s game against Croatia is reputational, Wilbon. You had Cristiano Ronaldo as the GOAT for years...he has never scored a single goal in a World Cup knockout game...all in the group stages...if he wants to reverse this trend...tonight is the night.” (12:56)
Wilbon:
“It’s a little late for that...ego maintaining, that’s my word...all the goats, young or old...they are killing it...Ronaldo...needs to produce...” (13:39)
[14:46 - 16:50]
Tony:
“Paul Skeens should feel like hiding...gave up a career high seven earned runs… the last six times he has taken a hill, the Pirates have lost...his ERA, Mike, is 5.36...my position that he’s much better than Misorowski is insane now. I cannot maintain that position.” (14:52)
On velocity drop:
“His velocity’s dropping and you just go, oh, no, I hope this doesn’t mean anything...you live in dread that there’s Tommy John in someone’s future...” (16:03, 16:50)
Wilbon:
“He should feel miserable. Miserable about last night. He’s getting chumped by the Miz right now after you had pronounced him Nolan Ryan.” (15:50)
On USMNT Coach Pochettino Singing After the Win:
On Dansby Swanson:
On the Jaylen Brown Trade:
On NBA Free Throw Rule Change:
Alex Ovechkin’s Return:
Caps legend returns for 22nd season. “He scored 32 goals last year. I don’t think he thinks that he’s good enough to play.” (21:42)
England’s Challenge in Mexico City:
Both agree altitude is a massive issue for European teams playing in Mexico.
End Show Banter:
(Witty, personal—“Knuckleheads” sendoff—classic PTI.)
Tony and Mike bring their sharp, opinionated takes as they dissect the US men’s soccer team’s gritty World Cup win, deliver their astonished reactions to the Jaylen Brown–Paul George NBA trade, weigh in on MLB’s hottest hitters (with usual Chicago bias jokes), and reflect on star athletes’ reputations and struggles—from Ronaldo’s last World Cup shot to Paul Skenes’ fall from grace. Packed with stats, context, and classic PTI back-and-forth, the episode offers cross-sport insight, memorable one-liners, and the essential headlines you need—all with the distinctive PTI flair.