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- [00:00]
A
Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. Game two of the NBA Finals is just hours away. Tony, don't you wish you were here with me?
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B
I'm Tony Kornheiser, sitting in a van in a parking lot. No, not particularly. Yes, yes, in a van.
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A
I told you we can pretend we're on surveillance on a big stakeout. You're not getting it. You're not understanding.
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B
I'm not. I'm not. You can pretend that if you. I could pretend I'm the king of England. Nobody's going to pay attention to me. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, the spurs need a win. Aaron Judge is out for a while and Tim Legler joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the Stanley cup final and Carolina winning at home in overtime last night. Four, three. Vegas was up two nothing and Carolina tied the game in the third period. Then there was a scrum in front of the Carolina net and the puck went in. Officials immediately signaled they felt the Carolina goalie was interfered with and they disallowed the Vegas goal. Vegas coach John Tortorella challenged and lost. Carolina then scored 25 seconds later on the mandatory power play for 3, 2 and ultimately won in overtime. Wilbon, what do you think of the challenge and the aftermath of the challenge?
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A
Tony, I'm confused. I've watched this thing a million times, starting last night and then, you know, this morning when it was the subject of, you know, all the. All the morning shows. And just now as we prepare to come into pti, I watch it. I still don't know that I know what happened. I know that the official, the referee is standing perfectly positioned behind the net and he sees the puck go in and he also can see the action and like a foot and a half in front of him and decide whether those sticks from Vegas were hitting the Carolina goaltender or whether one of them hit the puck. But what do we know? I think it has to go to replay. I understand why torts challenged seems like a bit much of a penalty, but the penalty is Required, as you said, mandatory. But it swung the game even though there were more goals scored. So I don't. I don't know what to think. It was just. It was too big an event, and it really helped determine the situation, which even this series had won.
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B
Yeah, I think the critical factor here is the punishment for losing a challenge. This is not like in baseball, where the worst thing that happens is you just run out of challenges. Or in football, again, where the worst thing that happens is you run out of challenges. In this case, if you lose the challenge, a guy goes off the ice, there's a penalty, you're playing four on five. It literally changes the game. Literally. Which is why Rod Brindemore, the Carolina coach, says, we don't do it. We won't do it unless we are 100% certain. Now, like you, I understand why Tortorella did this. If he gets that goal, it's four to three. It's three to two in the third period in favor of Vegas. They're going to win that game. They're going to go back to Vegas up 2 0, and they're going to win the Cup. But it doesn't work out. And the 32 goal then goes to Carolina. So, I mean, it becomes a very. A very complicated issue. I understand that Vegas tied the game and forced the overtime, but like you, Mike, I believe there is a chain that goes from the 32 to winning the game. You know, it's. Yes.
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A
Tony, let me ask you this.
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B
So different than other sports.
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A
Would you like torts?
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B
What?
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A
Would you like torts have challenged. Made the challenge?
- [04:21]
B
I think all things considered, if he gets that goal. Yes. I mean, look, this is an odd series, Mike. I don't want to go too long, but it's a series where Both teams had 20 leads in games and lost those games.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And Vegas goes into the third period in this game that all year long. When Vegas went into the third period with a lead, you know what their record was? 31 03. So you know, this is the Stanley Cup Final. You'll do anything to win. It's. It's, it's, it's so punitive, though. The penalty's so punitive. It is.
- [04:54]
A
It is. You wouldn't think two minutes, two minutes in the box. Get in there. Let's move to tonight's game two of the NBA Finals. The Knicks stole game one and have taken 12 consecutive playoff games. If they win tonight, they head home to Madison Square Garden with a commanding 20 series lead. So, Tony, if the Knicks were to beat the spurs again, would you consider this thing over?
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B
Oh, absolutely. It's totally the Knicks win tonight. This series is over. I know that there have been teams that have lost the first two games of the, of the final series and won the series. Milwaukee a couple of years ago. Right. 20, 21, they were in that situation. The one that stands out for me is Bill Walton with the, you know, with the Trailblazers against Philadelphia in 1977. Yeah. So I remember that. But those teams lost the first two games on the road. They didn't lose at home. There's never been a team that has won the final series that started out.02 at home. And the Knicks, you know, the Knicks are a really good team. They haven't lost since April. It's June. Check the calendar. You know, they have now won six consecutive road playoff games by double digits. So yeah, yes, I believe it's over if that happens. I don't think they're going to lose to them. I think Wembanyama will establish himself early like he did in game six against Oklahoma City. Also in San Antonio, they won the spurs one that came by 27 points. I'm not saying it's going to be a runaway like that, but I expect San Antonio to win tonight.
- [06:31]
A
Yeah. Of greater importance to me is not if the Knicks win or steal game two, it's what is San Antonio going to do to defend his home court tonight and come away with a win to even this series. And there's some things they have to do. They have to figure out what they're going to do, what their plan of attack is against Jalen Brunson. I would think part of their attack to defend Jalen Brunson is to make him defend, make him expend some energy. They didn't do that because they took stupid threes and they're not a great three point shooting team. And de' Aaron Fox is sort of gimpy on the ankle. He can get in the lane and take a 13 foot pull up. He can do that. He can still get his way because he's one of the fastest players in the league with the ball to the basket and challenge a team that is not the greatest shot blocking defense in the world. You know, Dylan Harper. And they're not a great three point shooting team. Stefan Castle. Those guys will become better at that as they get older. They're babies. They're not good at it now. So stop jacking them up. Don't be the Boston Celtics and have this defiant attitude about what you have to do. And I don't think the spurs of Greg Popovich and Tim Duncan and they're still of those guys because they're in the building and Pop communicates with them. They will be smart tonight and when Banyamba will get his big butt down closer to the basket, not Shaq and Wilt distance because that's not what he does. But he will be active both defensively and offensively in the lane. They got to do a better job with Karl and Anthony Towns and I think, I think San Antonio will win this game. You're right. If they don't, it's over. I don't see them coming back.
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B
If they lose, they're cooked. Looks like traditionally in this playoff series, so far their worst game in the playoff is often game one. They lost game one in Minnesota. They lost game one to New York in regulation time. They score fewer points in game one than in any other game in the series. So, yes, the signs point to a rebound for San Antonio. Let's move to Aaron Judge and the news that the Yankee slugger has a stress fracture on stress fracture on his rib and will miss significant time. Judge will not be reimaged until four to six weeks. Now, he's expected to return this year. This timeline would suggest August, but you can't bank on that. Everybody heals differently. The problem is it hurts when he swings. At the moment, the Yankees have the second best record in the American League. Wilbon, where does this injury leave New York and what does it mean for the rest of the American League?
- [08:59]
A
Well, I mean, it's a little early to definitively know and I'm not going to overstate what it means. We know from talking about this yesterday, Tony, that the Yankees record. There's such a disparity between what they do on the field with Judge and what they do when he's not there.
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B
Yes.
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A
When he's not in that lineup, they, they're under.500. When he's in the lineup, they're at like almost at 60% winning, which is great in Major League Baseball. So Aaron Judge, when you, when you think of how violently he swings and just also the impact of ball on bat, it hurts my ribs to think about that. This is not, you know, some injury that can, they can hide from. And even if he only dh'd, you have the swinging issue of what it feels like and then do you make it worse? Do you make it. So you're not going to have Aaron Judge in August and September and so the Yankees are going to have to be. And he's going to have to be conservative with this. Tony. I don't know what it means for the rest of the American League, which stinks. It's too early to tell that we're, you know, June 4th, essentially a day later, not July 4th. But it ain't good for the Yankees
- [10:07]
B
that we know it hurts when he swings. Since May 17, that's a small snapshot. He's been hurt like in late April, he said he got hurt. Since May 17th he's batting.163. He has one homer in 13 games. Cuz it hurts when he swings, okay? You can't play if it hurts when you swing.
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A
It does.
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C
It's.
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B
It's impossible. I want to go back to those numbers though that we first talked about yesterday. The Yankees are plus 138 over.500 when he plays, minus 8 when he doesn't play. Mike, this is not credible numbers. These are unbelievable numbers. This is a nine man game. Neither you nor I can imagine one baseball player who only gets up every 10th time. Because you got to go through nine guys having that much impact on a team. He's not a quarterback. I don't understand how he can have this much impact. What it means for the Yankees. The Yankees, you know, they got Bellinger, they got Ben Rice, you know, they got Stanton coming back, they got Goldsmith. I mean, I think, I think they'll be okay with the number. But that number, if that's a true fact, it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. And you're right, the rest of the American League stinks. I mean, right now, the second wild card of the Chicago White Sox, who an hour ago had lost 300 games.
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A
So come on. Unbelievable.
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B
Let's take a break. Let's take a break. Coming up, was it fatigue or the Knicks D that showed Victor Wong slowed Victor Wembanyama in game one? We will ask Tim Legler.
- [11:36]
A
Well, also asking what the spurs need to do differently when trying to guard the big body of Jalen Brunson. Yeah, that judge statistic and mine I was talking about the last five years.
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D
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B
In a story the PTI investigative team broke on our first segment, Game two of the NBA Finals is tonight, and calling it courtside will be our great friend, ESPN NBA analyst Tim Legler. Tim, let us start with this. Victor Wembanyama struggled in Game 1 and the Knicks outscored the spurs in the paint. Was that just fatigue for Wembanyama or how the Knicks are handling him?
- [13:24]
C
No, I wouldn't put too much of that on fatigue. Clearly he got winded a couple times in that game, but I mean that's to be expected in Game one of the Finals. Much energy as you're expending this for me was more about how the Knicks guarded him, particularly Karl Anthony Towns. I just thought they did a brilliant job of taking away space, forcing him further out on the floor where he can't quickly get to the rim and put more pressure on you with all of that size. They cut him off on his drives. They they were in the area on his three point shots. They forced him to have to handle the ball more than he wanted to to get into his own offense. I thought this was a great defensive number one game plan, but then execution, particularly on the part of their bigs because Mitchell Robinson also did a good job on Wembanyama. So the adjustments will come from San Antonio and how they get him the ball and where they get him the ball. But I'm going to go ahead and chalk this one up to the defense. I think in Game one.
- [14:19]
A
Speaking of defense, Tim, I said going into Game one that it appeared to me the spurs have four guys who together could capably guard Jalen Brunson. Tell me if I'm crazy and if not, what do they need to do differently to try to get him under control if they can tonight?
- [14:37]
C
Well, I think what you're really talking about, Michael, is if he gets into that situation where he's just going to operate with space in a one on One or a ball screen, get his switch and go like he did to close the game. Because if you look at the rest of the game, you're right. They've got a stable of defenders they can throw at him. He was 7 for 21 from the field entering the fourth quarter. So it's not like they're going to look at that film and think that they couldn't contain Jalen Brunson all night and he just got away from him. He struggled and he missed some shots he could normally make. But their defense with the guys you're talking about, Stefan Castle and Dylan Harper and Vassell, even Champagne, very good defender though. They did a pretty good job on him for the most part. But where they're going to have to switch up if you get into that situation late again, you cannot allow Jalen Brunson to have all that space where he can go any direction he wants and get guys off balance and eventually work you to the position where he wants to take the shot. Because we know he's not processing pressure like anybody else on the floor. There's nobody more sure of themselves right now in the NBA than he is in those moments. So you have to figure out a way to send him one direction.
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B
Where.
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C
Where do you want to send them? And I think you got to mix up your blitzes and your traps to force them to give it up. I don't think you do it every time, but you can't give them a steady dose of one on one coverage the way that they did. If this is a tight game late.
- [15:56]
A
You mentioned one of those guys. I want to transition to Dylan Harper who sat for most of the fourth quarter in game one, but otherwise was pretty darn effective. What do you expect in terms of the way Dylan Harper is played tonight?
- [16:14]
C
I think it's still going to come down to for me now how De' Aaron Fox plays. Look, Darren, De' Aaron Fox is struggling right now. He's not 100% with that ankle. He was 3 for 13 in game one. He is capable though, because of who he is and the scoring prowess that he represents. He could have a 10 point first quarter now if that sets up his night, maybe that will make the decision tougher when you get down to the fourth quarter. But I think if he struggles, you will see Dylan Harper on the floor in the fourth quarter, particularly if he's playing well. But I just think he represents an element of force and physicality, athleticism that can break down the Knicks defense and get to the rim if he's got space. So I think Dylan Harper will be on the floor in the fourth quarter, but it could be dependent on what kind of night de' Aaron Fox is having.
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B
We will get you out of here on this. And we are looking forward beyond Game 2 with this question. Because of losing Game 1 at home, the spurs will now have to win a game in Madison Square Garden to take the title. What do you think playing there Madison Square Garden will be like for them?
- [17:16]
C
Yeah, listen, it can be unnerving at first. As a very young team, they've played in some incredible environments. And I can just tell you, having been on the road in the playoffs with the Thunder the last couple of seasons in their building, that's similar. And so they navigated that in a game seven winner take all game on the road in Oklahoma City against the defending champs. Now, I understand what's going on in the Garden right now is absolutely nuts. And the adrenaline, the energy in there, that, yeah, it can hit you for a young team. It can. But I also think this is a group in San Antonio very mentally tough up and down their roster. These are tough guys. These are guys that can take a punch even early in a game if it is in the Garden. And they're going to get up, they're going to fight back because they're physically and mentally tough. They're very well coached. So it could be unnerving, potentially for stretches or for the beginning maybe, but eventually I think this is a pretty mature team, even though they are as young as they are.
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B
Tim, thank you so much. Thank you, Tim.
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A
Appreciate you, Tim. See you soon.
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B
Of course.
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C
Anytime. Yeah, definitely.
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B
You can catch Tonight's game at 8:30pm Eastern on ABC. Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Bears pitch more woo to Indiana. Oh, my. Are they bluffing? Yeah.
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A
You people outside the area paying way too much attention to this. And the captain of the Red Wings wants out. Tony wants out. You people, yes, you people want 95 and not 94 and not 94. You're not, you know.
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B
Long day for Legler. Legler was on my podcast this morning. He was great. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.
- [19:09]
A
The Stanley Cup Final on ABC is more than a quest for the Cup. It's 134 years of putting it all on the line. And the heaviest 35 pounds ever lifted its broken curses and broken hearts. But for those chasing it, it's everything. The only question is who will take it. You just have to watch the Stanley Cup Final. Presented by Geico on ABC and the ESPN app.
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B
Happy time people. Happy 29th birthday Sam Darnold Darnold has lived with doubts for almost his entire NFL career. They started in New York with the jets where he failed to impress and saw ghosts. He went to Carolina and to San Francisco without any impact. He went to Minnesota, was terrific for most of the 2024 season, but he had two poor games at the end of the season and found himself doubted. Then he went to Seattle and people said let's see what he can do there. And he won the Super Bowl. Okay, maybe he didn't have a great box score in that game. 19 for 38 for 220 yards and one touchdown. But he was the winning quarterback and he threw no interceptions in the playoffs. The next time people doubt him, Darnold can show off his super bowl ring and tell them to eat it.
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A
He can wear it as a chip on his shoulder because everybody's already crowned the Rams despite playing in the same division as the Seahawks.
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B
Happy Anniversary Larry Johnson on this day 27 years ago with his Knicks down by three three points to the Pacers with five seconds left in game three of the Eastern Conference finals, Johnson made an improbable game winning series turning four point play. Johnson pump faked Antonio Davis into the air, drew a foul, switched the three and then sank the subsequent free throw to give the Knicks a 9291 win. The eighth seeded Knicks wound up knocking off the two seed pacers and that is the last time New York would beat Indiana in the playoffs. The Pacers have won the last. Including last year, the Nixon Pacers have squared off in the playoffs nine times. Six times between 1993 and 2000. Reggie Miller will be glad to tell you all about it. Oh, after getting past Indiana in this 1999 series, the Knicks lost the finals to San Antonio and here they both are again.
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A
That's nice. But there's one anniversary today. 35 years ago today. A spectacular move by Michael Jordan in a Game 2 win by the Bulls over the Lakers in the finals. A spectacular move.
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B
Heavy trails to a three run lead in the ninth for the A's. Oakland had the Cubs down 63 in the bottom of the ninth, thanks in part to a ball that Pete Crow Armstrong lost in the evening. Scott. An apparent frame ending fly ball in the six became a two run inside the park homer for Oakland's Shea Langeliers. But Crowe Armstrong started making up for it in the bottom of the six with a solo shot to right. And in the bottom of the ninth, he kept a four run, seven hit rally with a walk off RBI single.
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A
Talk about a desperately needed walk off win tone. And Pete Crow. Armstrong seems like he just. He's a magnet. He's at the center of everything. Crazy stuff, good stuff, bizarre stuff. He is a star and it all comes to him.
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B
One correction. Aaron Judge bats after eight other guys in the order bat, not nine. As I said, he is one of the nine. Of course I was not a math major. I was an English major. You got my point. Let's go to the big finish. The Bears voted to advance their stadium development in Hammond, Indiana. What does that mean, Mr. Chicago?
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A
I don't know. I don't care. The stadium for the next five years will be Soldier Field. And after that, when there's a shovel in the ground, I'll tell you. Red Wings captain Dylan Larkin has requested a trade. Is it significant?
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B
Yes. He's the captain. Do you realize he's played more games for Team usa? He has playoff games for Detroit. He's been in Detroit for 11 years. Lynx guard Olivia Miles set a WNBA rookie record with eight three pointers in a game. Is that a big deal?
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A
Yeah. Right now, she's the early choice for rookie of the Year. Broken Caitlin Clark's record and the links are 8 and 2. Despite missing one of their best players or their best player. Texas beat Texas Tech again to win the Women's College World Series. Are you happy for the Longhorns?
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B
Yeah. But I want to see those two schools play football. So do you. Last one. The French Open men's final match will be Zverev versus Caboli. Who you got?
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A
Take Caboli. One of the finalists won in a walk over. I don't know what is going on in the fridge. Open. I don't understand it.
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B
We're out of time. Try to do better the next time on Sony Kornheiser.
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A
I'm Mike Wilbon. Have a great weekend, knuckleheads. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us. We've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your summer@columbia.com to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia engineered for whatever.