Tony Kornheiser (2:42)

Ask you a question. I thought you were going to hold off until I spoke. But you went.

Mike Wilbon (2:46)

Now you got. Now you got it.

Tony Kornheiser (2:47)

Okay, so let give me a little time here. The villain in the piece is Virginia. If Virginia. If Virginia had beaten Duke.

Mike Wilbon (2:56)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (2:56)

None of this happened.

Mike Wilbon (2:57)

That's right.

Tony Kornheiser (2:58)

Virginia gets in, James Madison is out.

Mike Wilbon (3:02)

And note.

Tony Kornheiser (3:03)

And Miami's probably out because an ACC team gets in.

Mike Wilbon (3:06)

That's right.

Tony Kornheiser (3:07)

And nobody gets in.

Mike Wilbon (3:07)

And the committee wanted to put an ACC team in.

Tony Kornheiser (3:10)

So when Duke beats Virginia, the committee understands they can't put Duke in with five losses. But most of the people on the committee, most of them are ADs and coaches and they know ADs all around the country and they don't want to embarrass the ACC. No, the ACC's big time competent so they want to make sure an ACC team gets in. So they put in Miami. Cuz they can't put in Virginia. This is the same group of people who week after week after week separated Notre Dame from Miami even though it may have been wrong. But that's what they did week after week.

Mike Wilbon (3:43)

I know.

Tony Kornheiser (3:44)

So you can ask this question fairly. What did Miami do to move ahead of Notre Dame? The answer is nothing. Because they didn't play.

Mike Wilbon (3:50)

Now members got members.

Tony Kornheiser (3:51)

Let me get to head to head. Let me get to head to head. And I understand it. Miami played a home game against Notre Dame, beat them by three points. That's not a crushing defeat. Three points. That was in August. In August it is now December. Since then, Notre Dame won 10 games in a row and Miami lost two games to weaker opponents, unranked opponents. Notre Dame's losses are far better because two teams are.

Mike Wilbon (4:15)

Who do Notre Dame beat, who they beat. Minors got more impressive victories than Notre Dame.

Tony Kornheiser (4:20)

Well, they have the victory they have. That's more impressive is Notre Dame. Is Notre Dame. I think, I honestly think that Notre Dame got hosed because they're not in a conference. Really. They play footsie with a conference, they cozy up. When it benefits, they're not really in it.

Mike Wilbon (4:35)

And then Criticize them today.

Tony Kornheiser (4:37)

I understand that.

Mike Wilbon (4:38)

Hypocritical.

Tony Kornheiser (4:39)

Let me go to Alabama. Alabama's important in this. They're important.

Mike Wilbon (4:43)

We both have maybe left them out.

Tony Kornheiser (4:45)

They could have left Alabama out. Alabama has three losses, including a terrible loss to Georgia. I mean, they got destroyed, but the committee anticipated that. They put Alabama ahead of Notre Dame for no apparent reason. To tell everybody, if you get to a conference championship game, we're not gonna boot you because you're playing in it. Whereas A and M and Oklahoma, they're not playing in it.

Mike Wilbon (5:07)

Let me ask you one quick thing before you move on.

Tony Kornheiser (5:09)

Yes.

Mike Wilbon (5:11)

Head to head. I know you for a long time. You believe in what happens in the field of play.

Tony Kornheiser (5:18)

I do, I do. But I think there's some nuance to it. Cuz it happened so long ago.

Mike Wilbon (5:23)

It wasn't that long ago. August football season is only four months long.

Tony Kornheiser (5:26)

It was August.

Mike Wilbon (5:27)

August. The last day. September, October, November. That's it.

Tony Kornheiser (5:30)

December. Have you been outside lately? It's freezing.

Mike Wilbon (5:33)

I was outside shooting. It's different than August, by the way. It's moving, by the way. By the way, how hypocritical is Notre Dame? Let me the acc, as long as I get my paycheck and then behave like this.

Tony Kornheiser (5:47)

To be fair, Notre Dame. To be fair, you've hated Notre Dame.

Mike Wilbon (5:50)

And you loved them and you stumped for them. I admit to hate them now. I hate them today. I'm glad they're home. I'm glad they're going nowhere. No playoffs.

Tony Kornheiser (5:58)

The show is going to end. We're not doing anything.

Mike Wilbon (6:00)

Stories get out.

Tony Kornheiser (6:02)

Because it's going on and on and on.

Commercial Narrator (6:03)

Please.

Tony Kornheiser (6:04)

You hate them.

Mike Wilbon (6:04)

I do hate them.

Tony Kornheiser (6:05)

Go ahead.

Mike Wilbon (6:06)

Today more than ever. And I got reason read and I got support read. Huh? Hate Notre Dame.

Tony Kornheiser (6:12)

Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (6:12)

Boo.

Mike Wilbon (6:15)

Move to the AFC now. The Steelers beat the Ravens in Baltimore to move atop the AFC North. Jaguars beat the Colts to take control of the AFC south in a game. Daniel Jones injured his Achilles out for the season. The Texans are game back after beating the Chiefs last night, sending them all but out of the playoffs. And the Bills beat the Bengals ahead of Buffalo's big showdown at New England Sunday. Which AFC team then had the biggest win?

Tony Kornheiser (6:40)

It's not the biggest win, it's the biggest loss. Kansas City had the biggest loss. All right, Kansas City is now out of. They're not getting in the playoffs for the first time since hello, 2014. And in the interim, they won three Super Bowls and they were in five. So much for your years of Dynasty of One, because they had a real dynasty. They had a great run, they had a real dynasty. Every time I watch Kansas City this year and they've lost, it's the same thing. Patrick Mahomes throws a perfect pass and somebody drops it. My God.

Mike Wilbon (7:04)

Drop after drop, 22 drops. It seems more like that this season than me.

Tony Kornheiser (7:08)

Drop after drop after drop. So now Andy Reid has to figure out how to retool that team and he also has to figure out does he want to keep coaching. If you ask me what is the biggest win, I'm going to go pretty much off the board where you're concerned. I actually think it might be Buffalo because Joe Burrow was having his way with them until those two crazy back to back interceptions. And then now it's snowing, the weather is awful, Josh Allen takes over the game. Josh Allen gives an MVP performance and maybe the Bills found something.

Mike Wilbon (7:37)

I, I don't disagree with you on either one of those points. Kansas City is the big story in the afc. These guys are worthy, long time dominant, impressive, charismatic.

Tony Kornheiser (7:48)

What do you think of Houston? What do you think of Houston?

Mike Wilbon (7:51)

Well, they don't have much in the way of offense. They remind me a lot of my Bears teams, but they'll hit you in the mouth. How about the hitting in that game last night, the popping in that game? Things were flying off people's helmets last night.

Tony Kornheiser (8:03)

I don't want to be accused of recency bias, but when I watched that, I honestly thought that could be a Super bowl team. They have held, I think in succession Buffalo, Indianapolis and Kansas City to a total of 45.

Tony Kornheiser (8:15)

If you're holding somebody at 15, you only have to score.

Mike Wilbon (8:18)

But I'm going to agree with you on the other point too. I thought Buffalo reestablishing itself, if that's what they did. They weren't home. But Cincinnati. You thought Joe Burrow was going to.

Tony Kornheiser (8:28)

Deliver, he was going to win it.

Mike Wilbon (8:29)

And it did. I was starting to sway, thought he.

Tony Kornheiser (8:31)

Was going to win.

Mike Wilbon (8:31)

It looked like he wasn't. He has these bizarre interceptions that.

Tony Kornheiser (8:35)

What did you think of Pittsburgh and Baltimore?

Mike Wilbon (8:38)

Baltimore is done too. I think they are. Here's why. 1. You know, for six to eight weeks I thought Lamar Jackson is not that Lamar Jackson.

Tony Kornheiser (8:46)

You can see it.

Mike Wilbon (8:47)

Maybe he will be again next year. Maybe not now, but not now.

Tony Kornheiser (8:50)

Not now.

Mike Wilbon (8:50)

And I don't think they're good enough. Not now. And I don't think Pittsburgh's good enough either.

Tony Kornheiser (8:53)

So I'm kind of slide but it quiets the drumbeat about Mike Tomlin a little bit. And Aaron Rodgers was good. Aaron Rodgers was very good in that game. He was.

Mike Wilbon (9:02)

Very good call against the Ravens. Is that a touchdown or not?

Tony Kornheiser (9:04)

I didn't think it was. Did you?

Mike Wilbon (9:06)

It's a hard one.

Tony Kornheiser (9:07)

Yeah, I didn't.

Mike Wilbon (9:07)

I kind of thought it was. I could be swayed on that.

Tony Kornheiser (9:09)

And Indianapolis, which started out. They're done. They're done.

Mike Wilbon (9:13)

Okay, maybe this rookie from Notre Dame. No, I can root for him. Cause he ain't there. Maybe he's pretty good. Maybe he can hold the fort. They're not out of it.

Tony Kornheiser (9:23)

I think they're out of it. It looks they're trending out of it. Let's move now to the NFC and talk about impressive wins. Yesterday the rams crushed Arizona 45, 17. In Arizona, the Packers held on and beat the Bears on the last meaningful play of the game with an interception in the end zone 28:21. And the Saints, who'd only won twice all year, beat Tampa Bay in Tampa Bay 2420 to knock the Bucs down to a tie for first place in their division with idle Carolina 1 Wilbon whose win was most impressive.

Mike Wilbon (9:51)

Packers. And if those two plays had gone differently at the end, a touchdown and a two point conversion, I would say the Bears, that game, that was, that was a game worthy of all the hype all week and worthy of the oldest rivalry in the National Football League 100 years old. I, I obviously I didn't want to talk to anybody for about two hours after the end of that game. The packers look like they're ready to challenge and they're further along in their evolution than the Bears and Caleb Williams Love and versus Williams. And they won that game at home. They're going to run that back in 13 days. Actually. It's a Saturday night primetime game in Soldier Field. I'm hoping for a different result. But the packers played really well. Whenever the Bears came, they had that 17 play drive the Bears did, which was really impressive. And they knocked the packers back in the end zone, hit them in the mouth and the packers answered. And that game, that, that game had everything you could ask for. Obviously I want the different last pass. Caleb's got to throw it earlier and higher. Two seconds later, Kemet was open or run the ball. I would have run the ball, but that game had everything.

Tony Kornheiser (10:59)

Yeah, it also had the winner. That's always the winner. It's 12 of the last 13, 30 of the last 36. So you don't have to be Aaron Rodgers to own the Bears. You can be Jordan Love. And own the Bears. I'll make the case for the other two things. Just briefly. I'll start out with the Saints, you know, because they're a terrible team. They were one and five on the road and they win this game against Tampa Bay, who I thought was a good team. And they have faded and their only chance now is they have two games head to head with Carolina. So we'll see what they can do in that. And the other game, the Rams. The Rams re established themselves as the number one seed in the nfc. This is the point I want to make. Because they had lost to Carolina, Matthew Stafford had thrown two picks and made a fumble and then they rushed. What did they get here? 249 yards. But. And there's always a but. Arizona is simply nothing.

Mike Wilbon (11:47)

Homecoming team.

Tony Kornheiser (11:48)

They're absolutely. Yeah, they're absolutely nothing. I told you this this morning that I watched the Bears and the packers and I thought the Bears are a playoff team. Whether you had any doubts at all in the first 12 games as what their schedule was and how they would win their playoff team. They put on their big boy pants. They did. That was a really good game. My argument. Not my argument, my disagreement with you, which we hashed out this morning, is I wonder, did the Bears use the timeouts correctly at the end of the game? And why didn't they go to the end zone more than once? We want to stop the clock.

Mike Wilbon (12:17)

We can't stop anybody.

Tony Kornheiser (12:18)

Right.

Mike Wilbon (12:19)

We couldn't stop the packers in the two drives where we needed a turnover or a stop. So no, they played that right. Except the call. I don't like it. I love Ben Johnson. I love everything he's done. I'm running the ball. I just ran the ball down their throats. I'm not going to put that in the air when I can run it in Green Bay in that situation. But, but, but, but, but. I'm in a better mood now.

Tony Kornheiser (12:42)

Let's take a break. Still to come, the Browns botched a game tying two out of the Wildcats. Should Shador Sanders have been on the field?

Mike Wilbon (12:49)

Who is he? Jeff Kemp makes the hall of Fame kind of over Barry Bonds and Roger Clements kind of. Kind of Notre Dame. I'm angry now.

Tony Kornheiser (12:58)

No, I can see that.

Mike Wilbon (12:59)

I'm legitimate. I wasn't angry this morning.

Tony Kornheiser (13:02)

You're angry now.

Mike Wilbon (13:03)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (13:04)

Because they insulted your boy Jim Phillips.

Mike Wilbon (13:05)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (13:06)

Right. And you'll still. Pardon the interruption. Is presented by great goose. Make time. Wait. Please enjoy responsibly part of happy hour.

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Tony Kornheiser (14:51)

Welcome back to Pardon the Interruption presented by Grey Goose, part of happy hour.

Tony Kornheiser (15:06)

It is time for the missives from the minions in mail time. I'll put on my glasses to read the first one.

Mike Wilbon (15:11)

Mail time.

Tony Kornheiser (15:13)

Should Shadour Sanders have been on the field for the Browns bid to tie the Titans?

Mike Wilbon (15:17)

Yes, absolutely. He should be on the field. I mean, there's at least a threat of running a fuller play package which involves passing the ball for real. I understand that Cleveland has run these Wildcat formations and particularly Fine, run it all you want, but have Shadour Sanders on the field. Is this that hard?

Tony Kornheiser (15:36)

I was taken aback by this that he wasn't. Yeah, when I saw the Wildcat, which turned out to be a terrible play.

Mike Wilbon (15:42)

They made it work though.

Tony Kornheiser (15:43)

In the past they've made it work, but it didn't work this time. I mean, I want Shador Sanders as an option because to that point he had thrown for 364 yards and three touchdowns and he had run one in run for one. So if I was a coach with that Information in front of me on a clipboard. I would think Shadore Sanders would be out there. The play was terrible.

Mike Wilbon (16:03)

It was awful.

Tony Kornheiser (16:03)

The Wildcat went backwards instead of forwards. The pass was terrible. What it was was a clinic on why not to call that play.

Mike Wilbon (16:11)

And if the coach has to have a clipboard to remember that his rookie quarterback has accounted for four touchdowns in that game, when they stink, then he needs to be fired.

Tony Kornheiser (16:20)

You know the result of this, don't you? Shedor Sanders was named today as the starter the rest of the way and I think he's earned that at this point. What? You want to fire the coach?

Mike Wilbon (16:29)

Oh, come on. I'm exaggerating. Unlike Notre Dame story, it's just, it's a bad, it's a bad look for the coach not to know that the most important guy he's got on his offense is on the sideline with him. It's dumb.

Tony Kornheiser (16:41)

Your favorite player on that team, Myles Garrett is now up to 20.

Mike Wilbon (16:44)

How about that?

Tony Kornheiser (16:45)

20 seconds.

Mike Wilbon (16:45)

By the way, we have to block Myles Garrett and Soldier Field on Cleveland.

Tony Kornheiser (16:50)

Yeah, but Cleveland's no. Cleveland's no. You're going to be.

Mike Wilbon (16:53)

Let's hope they're no good again.

Tony Kornheiser (16:54)

Come on, stop it. They've been no good all year.

Mike Wilbon (16:56)

No trap game, no let down.

Tony Kornheiser (16:57)

Stop it.

Mike Wilbon (16:58)

I'm just, I'm worried.

Tony Kornheiser (16:59)

Stop it.

Mike Wilbon (17:00)

Hall of Fame Are you surprised that Jeff Kent was the only player to make the hall via the Contemporary era committee, which used to be called a.

Tony Kornheiser (17:08)

Veterans committee and then we're going to call it the veterans committee. And it's important to point out this event, this is not the real vote. This is the veterans getting real vote. It's a different thing. I was a little surprised Jeff Kent made it and then I realized that he has more home runs than any second base.

Mike Wilbon (17:22)

I'm okay with him making it.

Tony Kornheiser (17:23)

Yeah. And a lot of guys get in this way. You know, later on somebody votes him in. But I am not surprised at all that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens didn't get in. But I am surprised they didn't even get five votes. Mike. This means the next time they're eligible is 2031 and if they don't get five again, out, they're out forever. So you are going to never have a seven time Cy Young winner and the home run king of all time. You're not gonna have him. And that's because this drug stuff is serious. And it's gonna reverberate on Alex Rodriguez down the way as well.

Mike Wilbon (17:57)

I guess so. Tony And I'm not gonna say never cuz Pete Rose they finally he never got in well but they gave up the ghost. He's eligible now he's gone.

Tony Kornheiser (18:07)

He's gone.

Mike Wilbon (18:07)

Only you and I It doesn't matter. Only people who would have seen him play who could be El Carlos Delgado. I thought could have gone.

Tony Kornheiser (18:14)

I'm not.

Mike Wilbon (18:15)

I'm fine with Kent going in. Leader in home runs is for all second bases all time. As you mentioned. Delgado is one of those guys who I thought could have gone in. You know the hall of Fame. I'm. I'm hall weary because I don't know what it means. Clemens and Bonds are clearly two of the best players of all time and arguably the best players of their time.

Tony Kornheiser (18:37)

Yes. Yes.

Mike Wilbon (18:37)

And they're not in and how long do you go? How punitive do you get?

Tony Kornheiser (18:42)

They are suspected of using performance enhancing Alex Rodriguez.

Mike Wilbon (18:46)

You're right. Facing the same situation Enough email.

Tony Kornheiser (18:49)

Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Eagles try to bounce back from two straight losses tonight. How will they fare against the charges?

Mike Wilbon (18:56)

And Tony Oklahoma City keeps beating people's brains out.

Tony Kornheiser (19:02)

Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Did you see those yellow uniforms for the Chargers? What are that? What is that?

Mike Wilbon (19:07)

They're awful.

Tony Kornheiser (19:08)

Why are they. Why are they wearing that?

Mike Wilbon (19:09)

Somebody should be fired.

Tony Kornheiser (19:10)

They have one of the greatest uniforms of all time.

Mike Wilbon (19:12)

Yes, that person who said yellow uniforms.

Tony Kornheiser (19:15)

What?

Mike Wilbon (19:15)

Fired? Bring your stuff and get out.

Tony Kornheiser (19:19)

Send them to Notre Dame.

Mike Wilbon (19:21)

I'd like that.

Tony Kornheiser (19:21)

Send them to Notre Dame.

Mike Wilbon (19:22)

Put yellow uniforms on Notre Dame. Cause they're chicken.

Tony Kornheiser (19:24)

Oh, chicken.

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Tony Kornheiser (21:17)

Pardon the interruption is presented by Great Goose Make Time Wait. Please enjoy responsibly Part of Happy Hour Happy Time people. Happy hour 25th birthday Andy Pahes after batting.272 with 27 homers and 86 RBI during the regular season, Dodgers outfielder had a miserable offensive postseason, batting only.078, four hits, one RBI, 11 strikeouts. But what Pajes did defensively in Game 7 saved the World Series. Saved it. With the score 44 in the bottom of the ninth and two out, Toronto's Ernie Clement came up with the bases loaded in a shot to the deep left center ball game. Pajes raced over from center and after crashing into Kike Hernandez, Pajes leaped into the air to take the game winner away from the Blue Jays. The Dodgers won in 11 on a home run by Will Smith and a shutdown inning from Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Remember, Dave Roberts inserted Pajes into center field for Tommy Edmond during the ninth inning. Talk about making the right move.

Mike Wilbon (22:15)

The game's over. Yeah, the World Series is going to another team and he makes this play. And as much credit as he gets, which is like almost all of it. Dave Roberts as you what kind of instinct leads you to that? Right? Wow.

Tony Kornheiser (22:29)

Happy Anniversary, Baker Mayfield on this day three years ago, the former overall number one pick of the Cleveland Browns led an improbable comeback for the Rams over the Raiders, capped off by a 98 yard scoring drive just two days after the Rams had claimed Mayfield off waivers. Mayfield had started the season with Carolina, but after a 1 and 5 record there, Mayfield was granted his release in early December. Rams were down 163 in the fourth quarter when Mayfield led two long scoring drives. He ended up going 22 with 35 for 230 yards. No picks after that season. Mayfield went to Tampa Bay where he has found his footing and even with yesterday's loss has kept the Bucs in the thick of a division race this season despite injuries to all his best.

Mike Wilbon (23:10)

Receivers and to him. You know, I did not like Baker Mayfield early on.

Tony Kornheiser (23:13)

What do you do now?

Mike Wilbon (23:14)

I love him. Yeah, he's talented, he's tough, he's charismatic. He's been injured. No excuses. He's out there with half a team.

Tony Kornheiser (23:23)

And half a body and he runs and he runs when they need.

Mike Wilbon (23:25)

He does. Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (23:27)

Happy trails to Vancouver in the MLS Cup. Lionel Messi assisted on two goals on Saturday as Inter Miami beat Vancouver in the final. Messi won the game's MVP in seems to be a lock to win his second overall league MVP tomorrow. In all, Messi scored or assisted on 15 goals in these playoffs. A league record 38 year old has delivered time and again since coming to this league. And Taylor Swellman told us Friday, Messi is all but certain to be part of Argentina's World cup defense next summer. And yet you continue to rip him.

Mike Wilbon (23:55)

Well, just to make fun, he's. He's the goat.

Tony Kornheiser (23:58)

Is he the goat?

Mike Wilbon (23:59)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (23:59)

I thought you said Ronaldo was the goat.

Mike Wilbon (24:01)

It can't be. Was another guy who played in Argentina.

Tony Kornheiser (24:04)

Oh, okay.

Mike Wilbon (24:05)

I want to go to Vancouver and Mexico City to see the World cup in person. Those two cities.

Tony Kornheiser (24:09)

What about la? It's going to be in LA you don't go to all the time.

Mike Wilbon (24:12)

Who needs to go to la, really? I live my half my life in la. Vancouver, Mexico City.

Tony Kornheiser (24:17)

Let's go to the big finish if we could. The Thunder beat the Mavs and the Jazz this weekend by a combined 51 points. Are you impressed?

Mike Wilbon (24:24)

You forgot about Pele, which is unforgivable. Yes, they. Tony. They don't lose. When are we going to take them seriously? What point?

Tony Kornheiser (24:32)

I don't know. Go ahead.

Mike Wilbon (24:33)

Christmas.

Tony Kornheiser (24:34)

I don't know.

Mike Wilbon (24:34)

Dolphins beat your jets 30 and 2. When they're 30 and 32. Yeah, yeah. 34. 10. Your jets went down.

Tony Kornheiser (24:40)

The Jets. The jets stink. What did I write down here? But since the GM was fired in Miami, they're 40 and the coach probably saved his job. Gonzaga blew out Kentucky by 35. Should Wildcat fans be concerned?

Mike Wilbon (24:52)

5, 4. Tough stage, but how about Boogie Cousins ripping the tape?

Tony Kornheiser (24:55)

He did. He did. Former Wildcat. Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (24:58)

Fired Virginia Tech head coach Brent Pry. Get this is reportedly rejoining the team as James Franklin's dc. Does that make sense?

Tony Kornheiser (25:07)

It might because he did it before at Penn State. But it's weird to me.

Mike Wilbon (25:10)

It is.

Tony Kornheiser (25:10)

It's really. They just fired him.

Mike Wilbon (25:12)

He's got a big nice house and you don't want to leave. Very weird.

Tony Kornheiser (25:14)

Last one Monday Night Football Eagles and Chargers. Do you like the Eagles to bounce back tonight?

Mike Wilbon (25:19)

Yeah, we're quarterback in the Chargers. San Diego has a broken hand. I mean I know it's the non.

Tony Kornheiser (25:25)

Throwing hand but still it's not his leg like the guy at Indianapolis. We are out of time. We will try to do better the next time. Sue Feinberg, Happy Birthday.

Mike Wilbon (25:33)

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knucklehead.

Commercial Narrator (25:36)

As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Granger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by.