Tony Kornheiser (3:05)

So I'm going to sort of agree, but I'm going to go at it a little bit differently. The most interesting thing to me is what the Celtics are doing because, Mike, it seems to me they are giving up on next year. They know that Jayson Tatum with a torn. Is it this ACL or Achilles? I think it's his Achilles. Achilles, Achilles. They know he's going to be out all of next year. They just traded two other starters, Holiday and Porzingis, and they picked up in return two guys, Simons and Niang, who are on expiring contracts. So they're probably not going to be in Boston when Tatum gets back. I want to know what Boston is going to look like when Tatum gets back. And the reason is the most interesting thing to me is because they're just one year away from winning a championship. You know, that is a big deal to me. So I think that's a big deal. I would just mention I'm over my head with the five first round picks for the Nets because all I know is Cooper Flag and I don't know anybody else. I guess that's a bonanza. Mike, when you consider, you know, they could package a couple, couple of them and make trades right now, tonight. But I don't know how deep the draft is. Does the draft go to 27? Because they got 22, 26 and 27. Does it go that Tony? I don't know.

Brian Urlacher (4:24)

Here's how, here's how deep recent. Here's how deep deep recent drafts have been. Somebody got a guy named Jokic in the second round and somebody got a guy named Brunson in the second round. So I don't know that this draft is that deep either.

Tony Kornheiser (4:37)

Real quickly too.

Brian Urlacher (4:37)

That's a way looking at a two year window. That's all they were looking at. They were going to have to do this anyway. But they lose the second year because of Tatum and the.

Tony Kornheiser (4:46)

It's weird. And I love Porzingis, you're right. But he's an itinerant now. He floats from team to team. He doesn't stay anywhere, doesn't produce. He's not. He's Joel Embiid. He's not healthy. Let's stay in the NBA. Go to the Dallas Mavericks. They have extended Kyrie Irving for three years. After Irving declined his player option to make this deal the other day, the Mavericks signed Daniel Gafford for three more years. Tonight, they are expected to draft Cooper Flagg with the number one pick. Wilbon. What do you see in Dallas's future?

Brian Urlacher (5:17)

I see them being a serious contender year after next, because I don't know how soon Kyrie can get back. I know there are all these optimistic discussions about and predictions and forecasts about him coming back in January. I don't know that I'm buying that. And Kyrie knows his own body, and he knows he doesn't want to rush back at this stage of his career. But when Kyrie Irving gets back in there and he is for Dallas what he was for Dallas for, you know, a year and a half, you know, getting to the Finals. And of course, then the beat the next year, it looked like he was going to be. He was being great again. And you got Flag and you got Gafford. Oh, you got a guy named Klay Thompson and you got, you know, PJ Washington. Now you got, oh, wait, a Hall of Famer named Anthony Davis. They got a roster, Tony. They got a coach. The big thing for me is whether Jason Kidd is going to be there. I still wonder if Jason Kidd is going to be the coach of the Knicks, but that's another whole story. But they got the assets, the human resources to be really, really good. And if all those guys are healthy in the lineup and if Flag is just. If Flag is the third best player on that team, they can look at Oklahoma City and say, let's go drop the gloves. Now.

Tony Kornheiser (6:31)

We probably could not disagree more on this one. What do I see in Dallas's future? I see them firing the gm, Nico Harrison, because of that insane trade, getting rid of Luka Doncic. What I don't see, and here's where we do agree, I don't see Jason Kidd coaching here. I agree with you. I think he's going to knit. One of his top assistants left the other day. Another top assistant is being reported, is publicly contemplating leaving. That seems to me like a precursor for Jason Kidd agreed to leave Kyrie Irving. So here's what Kyrie Irving did. He's out. We don't know when he's gonna come back. That's not an Achilles, right? Or it's his acl.

Brian Urlacher (7:10)

It is. It is an Achilles, too.

Tony Kornheiser (7:11)

I thought his was an acl.

Brian Urlacher (7:13)

All right.

Tony Kornheiser (7:13)

Okay. It doesn't matter. They're both.

Brian Urlacher (7:15)

Oh, acl.

Tony Kornheiser (7:16)

It's an acl.

Brian Urlacher (7:16)

Acl. For Kyrie. For Kyrie, yes.

Tony Kornheiser (7:19)

So he's gonna come back. Nobody knows when, but not at the beginning of the season. It's a very serious injury. You don't know what he's going to be like when he comes back. And he's 33 years old at this point. I think, Mike. I think he took the long money in this contract because maybe he knows something that we don't know. You mentioned Anthony Davis. What does his history tell you? His history tells you that he's not healthy. And can Cooper Flagg be great right away? Maybe. But he's 18 years old. He'd be 19 in December. He's gonna go up against men, Mike. I think Dallas has a lot of names, and that's all they got is names. I'm not sure that their future is anything but uncertain at the moment.

Brian Urlacher (7:59)

It is uncertain, Tony. But next year, not this year. That's why I said, give Kyrie some time. I agree with that. He's not going to. He's not going to come out and be Kyrie right away coming off a serious injury next year. And they got to be healthy. But you could say that about every team. You could say that about Jayson Tatum's team and Halliburton's team. You can say that about everybody. I think they got one shot in them. And you did, too, by the way. When they first made that deal, you said that Dallas was gonna be okay.

Tony Kornheiser (8:24)

Short term this year. I said maybe not this year.

Brian Urlacher (8:30)

Let's move to two cases of absentmindedness in baseball. Last night in the first, o' Neal Cruz of the Pirates was pulled for failing to run hard to first. Cruz said he lost track of the outs and thought the fourth and second was the third out. Inning over. Okay. But Cruz had also casually blundered a fielding chance last week in last night's second case. And this kills me. I was watching it live. Pete Crowe, Armstrong and my Cubs. Hall did what he thought was a third out deep in center field at defense in St. Louis. But it was only the second out. And he allowed what proved to be the winning run to score from second base on a sac fly. Tony, which lapse was worse?

Tony Kornheiser (9:13)

You know, it's Petro Armstrong. There's no doubt about that, because it led directly to a runner coming in from second base. Okay, he makes a Catch at the wall. He stops looking at the field because he obviously thinks it's the third out. And the guy comes in. It proves to be the winning run because St. Louis wins by one. That's the run when it happened. It's 8:5, St. Louis in the fourth inning. But ultimately it's 8. 7. So that's more costly. Now, what Cruz did looked worse because Cruz, he's. He should have gone first. He's fast. He could have gotten on. If he gets on, maybe he comes around to score. But even if he comes around to score, and that's speculative at that point, it would be seven for Milwaukee. It ultimately ends up that Milwaukee wins nine to three. So we're just wondering what would happen with him. What we see with Pete Crowe, Armstrong, as you well know, is, is it has a direct bearing on the end of the game in the final score.

Brian Urlacher (10:09)

And maybe more than that. Look, Pete Crow Armstrong, who I have on a very short list of candidates for National League mvp, has been a wonder for the Cubs. A what? He. I tune in every night to see Pete Crow Armstrong Field, hit, run the bases, all of it. But he made this catch last night. And I'm wondering, whoa, is it me? I think this is the second out. And you see the St. Louis Cardinal. I think it was win. Just tearing around third. And I'm like, oh, my God, he forgot Tony.

Tony Kornheiser (10:40)

Yeah.

Brian Urlacher (10:41)

This is the Cardinals. The Cardinals are chasing the Cubs. It's a one run game. And suppose you get to the end of the season in that division, which is tight with the Cubs. That's right, Cardinals and Brewers. Suppose it's a one game difference. Oh, my God, I love this kid. But that's an enormous mistake. Enormous.

Tony Kornheiser (11:02)

Yeah. Your Cubs have lost five out of six lately. Let's take a break. Coming up, Ace Bailey has made headlines for avoiding team visits. But what's he like as a player? We will ask Jay Bilis.

Brian Urlacher (11:13)

It's a mystery. We'll also ask him, Jay, that is why recent drafts have gotten so much wrong. In retrospect. Yeah, I'm dying over that game.

Jay Bilas (11:23)

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Tony Kornheiser (12:55)

The NBA draft starts just hours from now. We are pleased to welcome back our great friend ESPN college basketball and NBA draft analyst, the dashing Mr. J. Billis. Dressed like an adult in a tie makes me happy. Let's start with this. What do you see as Cooper Flagg's first floor and what do you see as Cooper Flag's ceiling?

Mike Wilbon (13:18)

The floor is really high. I think his ceiling is a all NBA, perennial all star, you know, kind of a face of the league, if you will, that kind of player because he's got that kind of ability. And his defense is every bit as potent, if not more so than his offense with his size, his length and athleticism and, and it's really his maturity level and then his, his level of competitiveness at age 18 is honestly kind of hard to fathom. A lot of, a lot of these guys are competitive. I get that. But he's on the top tier of competitors that I've watched over the last 30 years. And I'm not saying he's the best one, but he's right there with the best of them. And especially at that age like Duke's never had a freshman as good or as accomplished as Cooper Flag. Not one. They've had guys that maybe you could argue Grant Hill or Kyrie Irving were more talented in certain areas, but nobody was as complete and as accomplished as a freshman as Cooper Flagg was.

Brian Urlacher (14:23)

Well, we seem to know a lot more about Cooper Flag than we do Ace Bailey. Jay, who has decided or his people have decided to take him the route of mystery. But you know about him. What are you seeing in him as a player. As we finally go into this draft tonight.

Mike Wilbon (14:40)

Ace Bailey is almost as young as Cooper flagg. He's just 18 years old. And as far as shot making, making difficult shots, he's the best in this draft. Really good off the dribble and getting into his shot. He can make tough shot after tough shot. And you go back, watch tape of his games against like Indiana or Northwestern where he had 39 points and 38 points respectively. Even seasoned NBA players were watching that going, man, like, there's nobody else in college to make shots like that. Outside of Dylan Harper of Rutgers and Cooper Flagg of Duke, Ace Bailey is the most talented player in this draft. Does he go number three? Like, I think he's the third most talented prospect in this draft. Does he go number three to Philly? I don't know. I would not be surprised if Philly took Vijay Edgecomb of, of Baylor. But, but if you're looking for a super talented offensive player that's got length, athleticism and can make every shot in the book, it's a spayle. It's just a little puzzling with why he would turn down all of these, these workouts and really basically say to the league, I'm okay going six, seven or eight, because that's given up millions upon millions of dollars in, in rookie contract salary. I don't have a problem with him doing that. That's fine. But when he schedules a workout, he's got to show up. That, that's sort of a level of professionalism that, that even at 18, he's got to have and, and he needed to show that.

Brian Urlacher (16:06)

Jay, for decades we could go 30, 35 college players deep into the second round and know everything about them. Not so much now, particularly with internationals included. But tell us, because you've been studying this of someone who the rest of us are going to say is unknown, who you like.

Mike Wilbon (16:25)

Well, there are a few of them. I'd start with Asa Newell of Georgia. He's long and athletic, a great offensive rebounder, can guard multiple positions, really good in transition, excellent finisher at basket, plays above the rim. But there are three three and D guys that I think are going to be really interesting to watch in this year's draft. One is Carter Bryant of Arizona, who's got a seven foot wingspan, excellent defensively and can knock down open threes. He only averaged seven points a game. The other is Rasheer Fleming of St. Joseph's he's got a 75 wingspan. Another guy who shoots 39, 40% from three and can stretch a defense. And the last one is the mystery man is Cedric Coward of Washington State. Started at a D3 school, went to Eastern Washington, did well, transferred to Washington State and was about to transfer to Duke before he went into the draft. And I think you could see him. It's possible he could, he could sneak into the lottery. So those guys, it shows that you don't have to average 25 or 20 points a game to catch the attention of NBA teams. If you're, if you're a three and D guy like those three I just mentioned, you can find your way onto a roster and really help teams win. And we saw that. We've seen that with, you know, teams like Oklahoma City and Indiana and all that. Guys that can help you win that aren't necessarily leading scorer types.

Tony Kornheiser (17:45)

This makes me so happy because Wilbond said, tell us about people we are not familiar with and I don't know any of those people. So that was very good. We will get you out of here on this. We look back on some drafts over a period of time and we go, whoa, if we redrafted today, we would do it completely different. After all of the evaluations that people put into these drafts. Why isn't this more of a science than it is a speculation?

Mike Wilbon (18:15)

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think we could look back at every draft and we would do it differently because most of the prospects are 18, 19 years old. They're not finished products. There's not a ton of data on them. So you gather as much information, as much intelligence to make it sound more hoity toity as you can and then you try to make a sound decision, but there's no way to measure this. And I think when you look at the NFL draft, I would venture to guess they make as many mistakes as are made in basketball and they have five years oftentimes to look at these guys. It's just not an exact science. I think when I started doing this 23 years ago is my 23rd draft for ESPN. I probably was mistakenly thinking that I knew after doing all this work. Now I just believe, and I think that's probably true of every NBA front office like that you have beliefs, but you don't know because like, hands up, all those who thought when Shea Gilgeous Alexander was drafted 11th that he was a future MVP. I don't know that anybody saw that. It's certainly a happy happening. But the one thing we know, the one thing that's certain is we're going to be wrong. About certain players and you just have to accept and do the best you can.

Tony Kornheiser (19:28)

Our great pleasure. Jay, thank you for being with us. Thank you Jay.

Brian Urlacher (19:31)

Appreciate it man.

Mike Wilbon (19:34)

Thank you.

Tony Kornheiser (19:35)

NBA Draft coverage starts at 7pm Eastern on ESPN. Let's take one last break. But still to come, the Fever says see ya to a player for whom they had high hopes.

Brian Urlacher (19:48)

Great player too. And the once mighty Mets, they're in a full swoon. They're struggling. Yeah, the draft, Tony, they didn't have. Nobody had Giannis. Nobody had Giannis. Antetokounmpo being a champion and an MVP either.

Jay Bilas (20:04)

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Tony Kornheiser (21:43)

Happy time people. Happy 27th birthday, Desmond Bain until last week week Bane was the starting guard opposite John Morant on the Memphis Grizzlies. Bane was drafted with the 30th overall pick in 2020 out of TCU by the Celtics, but the Celtics traded Bane to Memphis on draft night. This past season, Bane averaged 19.2 points, 6.1 rebounds and 5.3 assists. None of that matters now because Memphis traded Bane to Orlando for a couple of players and some draft picks. Suddenly there is optimism that Orlando can make a big move in the east because Bane gives the Magic what they lack, three point shooting. Bain's a career 41% shooter from three. Last year, Orlando was the worst three point shooting team in the NBA.

Brian Urlacher (22:29)

With Indiana and Boston not healthy, I do expect Orlando to slide up. The big move may take a little longer, but I love Bane going there. Love the move for Orlando.

Tony Kornheiser (22:40)

Happy Anniversary San Antonio Spurs on this day 26 years ago, Tim Duncan scored 31 points and the spurs defeated the Knicks to win the first of what would become five NBA championships. The core of that team was Duncan, who was named Finals mvp. David Robinson, Shawn Elliott and Avery Johnson. The spurs became the first of the four ABA teams who joined the NBA in the merger to win an NBA title. Denver became the second a few years ago. Neither the Nets nor the Pacers, who were multiple ABA champions, have won in the NBA, though both have appeared in the NBA Finals twice.

Brian Urlacher (23:16)

Then the spurs didn't do was go back to back, but they should have done that in 13 and 14. Ray Allen prevented that from happening, but the spurs should have won in 13 as well. Tony was on their racket as we say.

Tony Kornheiser (23:29)

Happy trails to Juana Bonner. The Indiana Fever released Bonner today after failing to find a trade partner. 37 year old, is a two time title winner and was lauded as a big off season pickup after following coach Stephanie White over from the sun. Bonner began the season as a starter, was soon moved to the bench and then set out the last five games for personal reasons. She said in a statement that quote, the fit did not work out. By the way, the Fever beat the storm last night, but Caitlin Clark has been struggling 1 for 23 from 3 with 22 turnovers in her last three games.

Brian Urlacher (24:03)

Bonner, by the way, has a Hall of Fame resume. She does.

Tony Kornheiser (24:09)

Let's get to the big finish as quickly as we can. Let's do it. The Oilers traded Evander Kane to the Canucks. Does that make sense?

Brian Urlacher (24:17)

Yeah. Save some money. He seems to be slowing down. A step back it seems. Yeah, it makes sense. The mets have lost 10 of 11. You got to be concerned.

Tony Kornheiser (24:25)

Yeah, they're sinking. Fred Van Vliet and the Rockets agreed a two year extension worth $50 million. Big deal.

Brian Urlacher (24:31)

Wow. The Rockets declined at $44 million. He was old. People thought he going to trade him. Not getting traded now. Justin Verlander fell to.05 last night. Your boy Max Scherzer returns tonight to face the Guardians. Your thoughts?

Tony Kornheiser (24:44)

My thoughts are I'm rooting for the warrior God. Of course I am. Last one. Colin Morikawa. Looking for a new caddy for the second time this season. Your reaction?

Brian Urlacher (24:54)

If I could take a cart. I want to do it. You know I love more Cowell. I'd love to be his caddy.

Tony Kornheiser (24:59)

But you can't caddy in a cart. They're not going to let you caddy in a cart. I'd like to. We're out of time. Try and do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

Brian Urlacher (25:08)

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. And now, more amazing sports commentary. Just wait, you'll see.

Rick Ruschell (25:15)

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