Mike Wilbon (1:49)

Okay. I mean, I'm afraid of that. So the Giants have these two young, talented kids who bring a certain energy and spirit and maybe complete naivete. And it's working. It'll work every other week, maybe if they're lucky, for the rest of the season. And then you figure out whether or not, you know, they've got something sustainable in the future in terms of playoffs and contending. And so we set that aside. It was, I'm in Wrigley Field last night just looking at the score on My phone going, what the hell is going on in East Rutherford? But Philly's got something. The Eagles have something more. We talked about it all week. Everybody's talked about it all week. They can't figure out what to do. They have no identity. Saquon Barkley, you know, he just shouldn't have 12 carries. Should have 20 carries. There's no load management for Saquon Barkley. He's a veteran player. You brought him over and he wins the super bowl for you and gains 2008. No, stop. What are you doing? Somebody needs to to bring a coaches only meeting to say, what the hell are you people thinking now? And Sirianni may do that cuz they had this happen like last season.

Tony Kornheiser (2:56)

So two things stand out to me about this. One is that the Eagles at this point now are in what I think is serious trouble.

Mike Wilbon (3:03)

You mean like two years ago serious trouble?

Tony Kornheiser (3:05)

No, like right now serious trouble.

Mike Wilbon (3:07)

All right.

Tony Kornheiser (3:07)

They don't score anymore. Their rushing is not nearly as good as it was last year. Their passing is not nearly as good as it was last year. I have some numbers for you that are astonishing given who they are. They're the defending super bowl champions. Going into this game last night, they ranked 30th out of 32 teams in offense. They ranked 31st out of 32 teams in passing offense. And they were dead last in three and outs. They were going three and out 47.2% of the time points in the league. Now you may, you may think it's irrelevant and you may laugh at the fact that they have these internal meetings with A.J. brown. Yeah, I do. And yeah, A.J.

Mike Wilbon (3:48)

Brown paying attention.

Tony Kornheiser (3:49)

Okay.

Mike Wilbon (3:50)

Right.

Tony Kornheiser (3:50)

And. And Saquon Barkley and Jalen.

Mike Wilbon (3:52)

Hurts. Okay?

Tony Kornheiser (3:53)

Yeah, but there's something wrong there, Mike. That's a 4 and 2 team and their point differential is minus. And they have been outgained in all six games this year and they won four of them. The other thing that has to be talked about is Jackson Dart. In fact, if Day Ball keeps his job as Giants coach, it's going to be because of Jackson Dart. And he's probably kicking himself or should be kicking himself that he, that he held on to Russell Wilson for that long. The kids. The kid has beaten the Chargers and the Eagles, who we think are playoff teams. His rating last night was 104.6. He runs and passes sort of like Jaden Daniels. I'm just saying he's got a chance. He's got a chance.

Mike Wilbon (4:32)

He's got a chance. I'm not going to get carried.

Tony Kornheiser (4:34)

And by the way, in Scatterboo, you know who he reminds me of? You're old enough to get this reference. Do you remember Charlie Tolar in the AFL with the Houston Oilers? Was called the human bowling ball because he was 5, 6.

Mike Wilbon (4:43)

I don't understand why he lasted so long. Why people, general managers who don't like running backs, who basically say, we don't need this position. Really, this kid can't help you at some point on any. On most teams.

Tony Kornheiser (4:55)

So.

Mike Wilbon (4:57)

The Phillies went out of the baseball playoffs in a way they would like to forget. With the game tied, bases loaded, with Dodgers two outs in the 11th, Philly reliever Orion Kirkhan. Did I get that right? Kirkaring Kurkering botched that slow roller back to the mound instead of trying to get the out at first base to end the inning and the threat, he tried for the force at the plate and unleashed what he later called a horsebleed throw. Dodgers win and advance. Oh, my God. Tone, what did you make of how it happened?

Tony Kornheiser (5:30)

So I was glued to that game. And, you know, in that moment, when Kirkering throws it away and the Dodgers score and the Dodgers win, the next shot is poignant and cinematic. The Dodgers are running around the infield. They're literally running around Kirkering, who is in the front of the mound, in front of the mound. His head is down and his hands are on his knees. It is the moment of ultimate sadness for him and ultimate joy. Well, not World Series joy, but to keep winning a series. Ultimate joy for the Dodgers. And you feel for the kid at that point. Now, we've seen this a hundred times already. We see real Mudo standing there pointing to first, saying, throw it to first. And the kid is, I don't know, 40ft away from home plate and throws it hard and throws it wide right and loses in that moment. And it's game over, series over. It's terrible, but I would point out to people that the only reason that the Phillies got the run that they got was on an error by a Dodgers relief pitcher. And that was Emmett Sheehan. There's a ground. A man on first. Ground ball of Freeman. Freeman goes to Mookie, covering shortstop. Mookie comes back. The reliever is now covering first, as he's supposed to do. Mookie has a good throw. He just misses it, goes into the dugout. The runner gets on second. Next batter up, gets a hit, and you get a run. And it should have been two out and nobody on.

Mike Wilbon (7:01)

I feel for this kid. I have covered A lot of events in my life where somebody made a mistake, a gaffe, and you identify immediately when you're there and you're in a locker room and you're two feet away from that person. In misery. This is the definition of the phrase agony of defeat. Yeah, I was there when Ernest Byner fumbled at the goal line for. I'm sorry if everybody in Cleveland is just turning the TV off in a huge game that the Browns are going to get to the super bowl and to see the misery. But I was lifted a little bit in this case. I was lifted. I needed to feel better in that. The way the Phillies players came to him and hugged him and talked to him and his manager and his coaches, and he's trying to walk right through them to get to a place where he could be by himself and they're like, no, you going to take this hug, essentially, is what they did.

Tony Kornheiser (7:54)

Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (7:55)

And that made me. This is. That image is going to stay with me much longer than anything the Dodgers did last.

Tony Kornheiser (8:01)

So I think, I think all the baseball series have been great. But you know that I do like the Phillies. I admire the Phillies. I think the Dodgers are a little bit better. Glasnow was great last night. Sasaki was great last night. I would have walked in the bottom of the seventh. I would have walked Ohtani as well. But I was stunned that Mookie Betts on the 32 pitch, he didn't go for it. It was this high. It wasn't this high. It was this high. That's all it was.

Mike Wilbon (8:24)

What was Ohtani going into that at bat, like 1 for 19 or something?

Tony Kornheiser (8:27)

Lefty power, righty, lefty situation. But if Mookie Betts thinks he's gonna walk against a guy who had one walk in 23 games, really, let's stay with baseball. Move to where you were last night. Wrigley Cedar, Chicago, where your Cubs once again scored early. Ian Happ hit a three run homer in the first inning. Matthew Boyd, who I know you like, went into the fifth, gave up nothing. The Cubs shut out the brewers six. Nothing forced a decisive game five tomorrow. Wilbon, what are your takeaways from the game and who do you think has the edge tomorrow?

Mike Wilbon (8:54)

There's winning, there's winning, is staying alive. But, you know, I've been to Wrigley Field 150 games in my life, and very few of them, if any, were like last night. Everybody who was there, who was either there or watching, understands if you're a Chicagoan, we got a lot of losing in Wrigley Field in the postseason. We got Bartman. Hey, one World Series in anybody's lifetime. We lost two of those three. And so the third game was just like desperation, just get through it. And to have that crowd. Both managers said later, and I couldn't know this at the time, both managers said the crowd and the atmosphere affected the outcome of the game. Who says that it was that?

Tony Kornheiser (9:39)

Both managers say that.

Mike Wilbon (9:40)

Obviously, I know it was. There was a joyousness about. Wasn't as desperate as I might think because the Cubs were facing elimination. And the home run in the first inning, which took a lot of the pressure off, the Ian Happ hit, that was just a bomb. It really changed things. And the question is, Tony, when they go back to Milwaukee, this is a 90 mile trip. That's all this is. When they go back to Milwaukee, is there any momentum or does it just not matter in the way that you and I, as we covered baseball, were told by managers. Earl Weaver, it doesn't matter.

Tony Kornheiser (10:16)

Yeah. I mean, I would only say this, that the Milwaukee brewers scored three runs in 18 innings in Chicago, which is terrible, but they scored 16 in 16 in Milwaukee in the first three. I have some questions for you. Did you wear a Cubs jersey?

Mike Wilbon (10:29)

I had Cubs stuff.

Tony Kornheiser (10:31)

Did you wear a Cubs jersey? Wear a bags jersey. Not a jersey. Okay. You were afraid it was gonna be cold. Did you get inside? Did you go in suite? Did you sit? Did you tough it out? Blowing.

Mike Wilbon (10:39)

It was great.

Tony Kornheiser (10:39)

So you toughed it out the whole way.

Mike Wilbon (10:41)

62 degrees.

Tony Kornheiser (10:42)

I'm proud to that. Well, you know, you were afraid at the beginning it was going to be too. Didn't anybody offer you a seat in the suite?

Mike Wilbon (10:49)

I don't need it. I was fine. It was like the. You're going to laugh at me for saying this. It was sort of the crowd and the scene and all of it was sort of like the nights when Jordan played against the Lakers in the finals early in his career, the early finals, Patrick Kane and the Blackhawks, when they actually went out and won. This is a place looking at that team and falling in love with that team, we may not have long to be in love with them because game five is tomorrow at 9:00 Eastern Time. But. And I don't know about pitching, you know, I. I don't. Imanaga, you know, who you'd like to trot out there has not been affected.

Tony Kornheiser (11:25)

I think it's an 8:00 o' clock game. 8:00 game.

Mike Wilbon (11:27)

I thought it was okay. 8:00 o' clock. Good. All right. Good enough. 8:00 clock game.

Tony Kornheiser (11:31)

I just wanted to know how you.

Mike Wilbon (11:32)

We'Re falling in love with them, but I'd like to. I'd like to have Dodgers Cubs. That's what I'd like to have. Well, you have a chance fight with Irvin Johnson.

Tony Kornheiser (11:41)

You do have a chance. Let's take a break. Coming up, the Tigers and Mariners play their deciding Game 5 tonight. Who you got?

Mike Wilbon (11:48)

Will the Chiefs fall to 2 and 4 after facing the Lions Sunday night? Toss ups Next.

Tony Kornheiser (11:53)

Do you want to tell the people the last time the Cubs went on the road for an elimination game? What happened?

Mike Wilbon (11:59)

I don't know.

Tony Kornheiser (12:00)

How about the World Series? Did that work for you? I thought no.

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Tony Kornheiser (14:31)

Time for toss up. Two men enter, one man leaves, finishes the show, gets on his burner accounts and posts all sorts of praise for himself across social media. I'm not doing that. What's first? What's first?

Mike Wilbon (14:43)

Toss up who you got in tonight's Game five, the Tigers or the Mariners?

Tony Kornheiser (14:48)

This is all the Tigers could have asked for to put all their eggs in one basket. And the basket is Tarek Skubal. Okay, he has been good to great in the playoffs so far. He's one and, oh, with a 184 ERA, 23 strikeouts in 14 innings, and he's allowed eight hits. He'll probably win the Cy Young Award again. And he's rested. So if Seattle beats him, good for Seattle. I mean, the two best players left in the American League are on display in this game. Cal Rawley and Tar Scuba.

Mike Wilbon (15:20)

That's right.

Tony Kornheiser (15:21)

Right. And if you're a viewer, what you want to see is if the guy with 60 home runs can take it out on the guy with the best ERA in the league.

Mike Wilbon (15:29)

But the guy with the best ERA in the league. People should be advised, watching this fine program got lit up in a similar situation by Cleveland last year. Last year. And I'm. Look, I'm with you. I'm. I'm looking at this going my first, second and third reactions are Skubal, Scubal and Skubal. That's what I'm going with. Because starting pitching means something to people of our vintage.

Tony Kornheiser (15:52)

Of a certain age. Yeah, of a certain age.

Mike Wilbon (15:53)

So I don't want to see a damn bullpen day. I want to see a guy who can go out and go eight innings, plus if he needs to. And you think Skubal could do that or hand it to a closer, not a bullpen array. So I'm with that, Tony, but.

Tony Kornheiser (16:08)

So you're afraid of that?

Mike Wilbon (16:09)

I'm afraid of it.

Tony Kornheiser (16:10)

Let me just say something. Tyler Glasnow had a very bad postseason record. How'd he do last night? See, like, if you go back to last year and you can't discount this year, like, what he's doing right now, this year.

Mike Wilbon (16:22)

That's why I'm going with School Bowl. I'm just saying this is and good for these two. I'm happy that these two teams have this sort of showcase platform tonight. Happy to see it.

Tony Kornheiser (16:34)

Next toss up.

Mike Wilbon (16:35)

To which team are you leaning on Sunday night, the Lions or the Chiefs? Okay.

Tony Kornheiser (16:40)

The game is in Kansas City.

Mike Wilbon (16:42)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (16:42)

The Chiefs are 2 and 3. The last time the Chiefs started 2 and 4, they still made the playoffs. It was 20, 21. So history tells us this is not a critical game, although we feel that this might be a critical game. I look at Detroit right now, I think they're playing the best football in the NFL. They have the the best scoring offense. After they lost to the packers in the next four games, they rocked out 161 points. So I am leaning towards them. But this gives me a very small window. A window in which Patrick Mahomes at home is an underdog and loses. Happened earlier this year against the Eagles.

Mike Wilbon (17:23)

So there's precedent there going Kansas City this week. Every time this year already we have we meaning collectively across all networks stupidly loudly declared somebody was the best team in the league. Then they lost. Early on it was the packers, then it was the Chargers, then it was the Eagles. Now it's Detroit. Detroit's fine.

Tony Kornheiser (17:49)

Do you think they are the best team in the league right now?

Mike Wilbon (17:53)

Probably, yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (17:54)

That's what I think.

Mike Wilbon (17:54)

I think probably. That's what I think. But they're still gonna lose. They're not going something.

Tony Kornheiser (17:57)

They won. You think there's a curse of the best team.

Mike Wilbon (18:00)

I just think that what we need to look at is an actual league and its trends and its patterns. We need to look at a league where no one is 72 Dolphins or 85 Bears or the 07 Patriots or whatever year that was at this point.

Tony Kornheiser (18:15)

A dynasty slips. Teeters.

Mike Wilbon (18:17)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (18:18)

Could that be happening this year with.

Mike Wilbon (18:20)

Yes. But they're going to win this game.

Tony Kornheiser (18:21)

Okay?

Mike Wilbon (18:22)

They're going to win this game. They're going to knock Detroit back a little bit and Detroit can recover next week. And I'm not saying that. And Kansas City, you're all in on.

Tony Kornheiser (18:30)

Kansas City this week. Okay. Only this week you put it in the confidence pool. Are you high up? Come on. You're going to show some guts here. Put it in the car. You're not. You're not going to do that. You know, reports like Kansas City in this. Show me a camera. That's it. Great. I win. Let's take one final break. When we come back, will Wilbon's Mercury avoid a sweep in Game four of the WNBA Finals tonight. I don't know. I don't know.

Mike Wilbon (18:54)

The Niners and the Bucs battle for a sheriff first. No, not a lot of confidence.

Tony Kornheiser (18:59)

Confidence too. That's it.

Mike Wilbon (19:01)

That's it.

Tony Kornheiser (19:01)

You sat here and told people you loved them and they were going to win. Yeah, but. Yeah, well, you didn't put your gut in my pool.

Mike Wilbon (19:07)

I stink this year. Stink.

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Tony Kornheiser (21:00)

Pardon the interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea. Hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy Hour Happy time people. Happy 39th birthday. Andrew McCutcheon McCutcheon came up with the Pittsburgh Pirates as their number one draft choice in 2005. He spent his first nine seasons in the majors in Pittsburgh and was MVP of the National League in 2000. McCutcheon was traded to the Giants in 2018, who then traded him to the Yankees when he was granted free agency. McCutcheon signed with the Phillies before the 2019 season. Then he went to Milwaukee and back to Pittsburgh. This year he hit.239 with 13 homers and 57 RBI for the Pirates. Overall, McCutcheon is a.271 hitter with 332 home runs, 1,152 RBI and 1,290 runs scored and a five time All Star. These are not hall of Fame numbers, but they are good, solid career numbers.

Mike Wilbon (21:56)

He's been an important person to that franchise and belongs there to me. Yeah, in that Pittsburgh uniform and when you see the white uniform to sort of double it, that reminds us of 21, you know. Yes, Clementi and Star Jones. No doubt, no doubt.

Tony Kornheiser (22:12)

Happy anniversary, Marcus Allen on this day 44 years ago, the great USC tailback rushed for 211 yards against Arizona, his fifth straight 200 yard game. Five straight remains the college record, though Allen now shares it with Rashad Penny of San Diego State, Jamario Thomas of North Texas and the great Barry Sanders. That season, Allen rushed for more than 200 yards in eight of the 11 games he played for USC and he won the Heisman Trophy. Over the course of his college and NFL career, he, Allen, won the Heisman, a national championship at usc, a Super bowl with the Raiders. He was MVP of the super bowl and MVP of the NFL. And you know who else has done all of that? No one is who, I guess he.

Mike Wilbon (22:55)

Was wearing 33 at SC because they.

Tony Kornheiser (22:57)

Had retired OJ's 32. He wore 32. Is that possible?

Mike Wilbon (23:01)

Wore 32 in the pros. Tony. He's one of the great players of all time and doesn't get talked about in that context. And he, he was, though he was.

Tony Kornheiser (23:10)

On a melancholy trail to Sister Jean, the Loyola Chicago men's basketball superfan and team. Chaplin died Thursday at 106. Sister Jean came to national recognition in 2018 when the Ramblers made their Cinderella run to the Final Four, beating four top ten seeds along the way. Sister Jean was born Dolores bertha Schmidt in 1919. She became a nun in 1937, joined the staff at Loyola Chicago in 1991 and the basketball program in 1994, first as an academic advisor and then chaplain. Sister Jean played basketball as a girl, she wrote in her 2023 biography, and I'm quoting here, I may be an old nun But I know my hoops.

Mike Wilbon (23:52)

When you're driving up Sheridan Road for some of us to Northwestern, you first passed Loyola, my mother's alma mater.

Tony Kornheiser (24:00)

How's that?

Mike Wilbon (24:01)

Like, I have not been able to make that drive anytime in the past 10 or more years without thinking of Sister Jean, who people say you could occasionally see on that lakefront campus as well. People don't talk about it as much. It's beautiful. And she became a very important person, a symbol of a lot that was good in Chicago and specifically at Loyola.

Tony Kornheiser (24:24)

Totally agreed. One correction. The Cubs last win on the road in a winner take all game was not the 2016 World Series. Game 7, as I suggested. They also won in Washington the next year in game five of the nlds.

Mike Wilbon (24:36)

Wow. Weren't you at that?

Tony Kornheiser (24:37)

I eliminated my game. No, I eliminated it from my memory. Let's go to the big finish, if we could. Yankee Cody Bellinger opting out of his contract to become a free agent. Does that make sense to you? Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (24:47)

But why is he on solo contracts all the time? Bellinger's good. He can hit. He's a power hitter. He's a terrific fielder.

Commercial Narrator (24:54)

Come on.

Mike Wilbon (24:55)

Shador Sanders will back up Dylan Gabriel over the Browns Sunday. Does that matter?

Tony Kornheiser (25:00)

Yeah, because he's the next one in. And Dylan Gabriel is not the Rock. Is he not?

Mike Wilbon (25:04)

Maybe not.

Tony Kornheiser (25:05)

Niners and Bucks play on Sunday. Who you got?

Mike Wilbon (25:08)

I'm going to go with the Bucks. I mean, Baker Mayfield.

Tony Kornheiser (25:11)

He's been great. He's been the MVP to this point?

Mike Wilbon (25:13)

I think so.

Tony Kornheiser (25:14)

Yeah.

Mike Wilbon (25:14)

U.S. men's Soccer has a friendly against Ecuador tonight. Break it down.

Tony Kornheiser (25:18)

Why do you got soccer? Here's what I know. United States is ranked number 16 in Ecuador is ranked number 24. So. And the Games in America games in Austin.

Mike Wilbon (25:28)

I mean, it's a friendly.

Tony Kornheiser (25:28)

All right, last one. The Aces can sweep the Mercury in the WNBA finals tonight. Will they?

Mike Wilbon (25:33)

It's gonna be hard for Phoenix. Was soverely out with this concussion. It's just. I hate that it comes to that, that the best players in a series can't all play. But, you know, Aces will probably close it out.

Tony Kornheiser (25:46)

We are out of time. We will try to do better the next time.

Mike Wilbon (25:49)

Time.

Tony Kornheiser (25:49)

I'm Tony Cornhunt.

Mike Wilbon (25:50)

I'm Mike Wilbon.

Tony Kornheiser (25:51)

Now let's talk about Chicago crowds.

Mike Wilbon (25:52)

And we got those with the Bears in 85. That was crazy. As you're from Chicago, you love Catch us on the Deuce Monday. Talk about stepping up. It's time to level up your game. Introducing the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and the best championship moments.

Tony Kornheiser (26:14)

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Mike Wilbon (26:16)

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