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- [00:00]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond.
- [00:25]
Pablo Torre
And.
- [00:26]
Damian Lillard
And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [00:36]
Pablo Torre
Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre. I am on the road in Boston for a conference, but I rushed over to host with you. Tony.
- [00:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Tony Kornheiser sounds a little thirsty. Tbh. You like the way I said that? Thirsty. Tbh.
- [00:51]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. This is a disturbing evolution of your otherwise prodigious vocabulary. Didn't think that was gonna be in.
- [00:58]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, well, I read what they write for me because I'm a show monkey. Are you in Boston for anything to do with Harvard, your alma mater, which I say with contempt?
- [01:07]
Pablo Torre
It's mit. It's a lesser institution in MIT this time, so, you know, just for the.
- [01:12]
Tony Kornheiser
Record, MT is another great school. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilbon has bailed on you, so here to handle his workload is our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre. Finds out. Mr. Pablo Torre. Good. And we begin today with the Lakers coming back from a double digit deficit in the second half and beating the Knicks in overtime, and the warriors going on the road and beating the Nets. And my friend Charles Barkley talking about some on air talent at ESPN being, quote, fools and idiots for paying too much attention to the Lakers and the warriors at the expense of Cleveland and Oklahoma City, who Charles thinks are clearly the best teams in the NBA. Pablo, which teams deserve more attention now? The warriors and the Lakers or the Cavaliers in the Thunder?
- [02:00]
Pablo Torre
It's the Cavs and the Thunder. But I love being in this newsroom with you and our new ombudsman, Charles Barkley. Tony, I love that this is a conversation about what should we, what should we cover? What's a one? And to me, if we are a daily newspaper right now. Okay, yeah, let's. Let's consider the Lakers, let's consider the Warriors. I get it, Luka, Jimmy Butler, they're really Good. Now, they have been for a couple of games, several games, weeks even. But the season, right. If we're doing a big zoom out takeout piece, I'm telling you that the six greatest teams in NBA history by point differential, both of the Thunder and the Cavs are on the list. Thunder number one, Cavs number six. And so this is one of the great defenses in Oklahoma City with an mvp, with the MVP and Shay, Gilders, Alexander and one of the great offenses in Cleveland. And we should celebrate how crazy it is that history is being made in those small markets as we speak. That's the story of the season to me. Sir Charles, on that, on that level is totally right.
- [03:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. I'm going to disagree with both of you just a little bit here. But first of all, I want to say that I'm thrilled if Charles Barkley wanted to call me a fool or an idiot. I love Charles. I'm so happy that that TNT show is coming over here. And I hope that next year that Charles wants to be a guest on this show, as he has been many times before. And he calls me a fool, and I'll be the fool on the hill, you know, see the sun going down, you know, and stuff like that. Thank you. Shout out to the Beatles. But in terms of the story that we're talking about, okay, you and Charles are hardcore basketball fans. You are concerned with the upper echelon in the season, which teams are up there and who might be the championship teams. And I get that. And Cleveland and Oklahoma City are far ahead of everybody else at the moment. And that's true. Small markets, but very worthy teams. But you, if you're a regular fan, an average fan, and you have a connection to people you've seen for a number of years, big stars, you're familiar with them and you want to be entertained, right now, the greatest entertainment is probably the Lakers and probably the Warriors. And there is a great sense of continuity to it. It is a fact. And it is great fortune, Pablo, for the NBA, great fortune that Jimmy Butler is now in San Francisco with Steph Curry and Luka Doncic is now in Los Angeles with LeBron James. These are big markets. This is gold, Jerry. That's what it is. They got four rings each. LeBron's got four, Steph's got four at the moment, Donovan Mitchell has zero. Shea Gilgis, Alexander Aziro. In due time, maybe. But I'm suggesting to you that right now, if you're in the NBA office, you are thrilled, thrilled that it's the warriors and the Lakers again. And they're, they're relevant playoff teams and they are higher up on the NBA scale, even in that office than the guys on the top of the mountain, Cleveland and Oklahoma City.
- [05:00]
Pablo Torre
It's an incredible thing that the NBA went from how do we follow up to Luke? How do we follow up LeBron and Steph? Well, let's give LeBron, Luca, let's give Steph, Jimmy Butler, right? Like the whole four look, the magic formula of NBA attention has been superstars, controversy and rings. My only concern is that we do to these teams in Cleveland, Oklahoma City a version of what we did to the 73 and nine warriors, which is to say if we, if they don't win a ring, we're going to discard them, we are going to forget about them. And so I'm just concerned that right now the coverage should be around what is happening in front of us because it's not guaranteed that we're going to ever talk about them again if they don't actually win. The thing that, you know, Sir Charles, by the way, has also been searching for for his whole life.
- [05:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Those warriors. But those warriors who had the greatest record, those warriors, they lost. They did not win the ring. But those warriors have four rings. They got four rings. That's a lot of rings that team.
- [06:05]
Pablo Torre
Four. It is, it's, it's, it's a brand that the NBA is happy to still be quite relevant. But Mark Cuban, Tony, I want to move to this story. He gave his first detailed public comments on the Luca trade as referenced to wfaa, the man who recently sold his majority stake in the Mavericks said, quote, if the Mavs are going to trade Luka, that's one thing. Just get a better deal. No disrespect to Anthony Davis, but if we had gotten four unprotected number ones and Anthony Davis and Max Christie, this would be a different conversation. End quote. So, Tony, what did you hear in Cuban's comments there?
- [06:41]
Tony Kornheiser
I heard what any reasonable person heard, that it's an insane trade, that it's a terrible mistake, that it's a franchise killing trade. Nico Harrison traded one of the greatest young worldwide basketball players to pick up a fine player in Anthony Davis. But an aging player and a player who is hurt a lot. Anthony Davis, I believe, will be 32 years old next week. That is middle age in the NBA. Luka Doncic has just turned 26. Look, you can trade Luka, but you better bring back Antetokounmpo or Jokic or Gilgis Alexander. That's what you have to do. You can't make this trade. I mean, to me, you got to get rid of a general manager who makes a trade like that because it's terrible for that team. I mean, you're banking on the fact. You just. Look, you're trading your future away for a small sliver of contention. Two to three years. But it's all based on Anthony Davis's health and he's never healthy.
- [07:43]
Pablo Torre
Yes, Mark Cuban. To me, what I heard is that he's having his cake and eating it, too. That's the sound I heard. Mark Cuban, Nico Harrison, by the way, the GM you just referenced, Mark Cuban hired him. That's his guy. The ownership group that runs the team that has empowered Nico Harrison to make truly the most embarrassing transaction in recent sports history.
- [08:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes.
- [08:09]
Pablo Torre
That's the group he sold his team to. That's the group that, when it was first announced, by the way, Mark Cuban was supposed to be still involved in basketball operations. And only now, after this trade happens, do you realize, actually, Mark Cuban never had that power at all. So to me, it just feels like he's protesting a little bit too much. It feels like you can draw a straight line from Mark Cuban to this decision, and it is the worst, and it is a nightmare, and it's also kind of on him.
- [08:42]
Tony Kornheiser
So I'm going to say this. I said it to Wilbourne the other day, and he pooh, poohed it. But I'm going to say it because I believe, and it's just my theory, that I'm not going to be surprised if they move this team to Las Vegas at some point. I mean, what kind of ownership, honestly, what kind of ownership trades Luka Doncic, then listens to the fans, their plaintiff cry, their sadness, and then their anger, and then raises ticket prices? What kind of ownership does that? A kind of ownership that is not committed to this particular area. We move to baseball now, and word from the Dodgers that the team is slowing down. Shohei Ohtani's possible return to the mound, which the team had targeted for May. Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said, and I'm quoting here, we just felt that to intensify the bullpen sessions alongside of the intensity of the games wasn't smart. So we just wanted to slow play it, unquote. Pablo, what does it say to you that the Dodgers are dialing back, show his pitching recovery?
- [09:38]
Pablo Torre
It says that the Dodgers know they have a luxury product and they're a luxury team that doesn't need that product to do twice the work, that it's capable of doing because they won a World Series with him being half of himself. Shohei Ohtani, Tony. I mean, we watched it last season. 5050 season, first of its kind. All of that. A third unanimous MVP in a business. Sports, by the way, broadly, we've never seen an athlete win more than one of those in football, basketball, hockey, baseball. It's just him. And so you don't need him to be the most special player of all time, the best pitcher and hitter combined into one man. You just need him to be there healthy in some regard. And that's what they're trying to maximize. I totally understand what they're doing.
- [10:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. I mean, he was the mvp. They won a World Series. He was the mvp. That is a big win. You don't have to do more than that. The Yankees mvp, they don't ask Aaron Judge to pitch. They don't do that. But Pablo, I take away from this that there's. There's no optimism in what we just heard towards Shohei pitching. Again, optimism would be he's on schedule or he's ahead of schedule. This is, we're changing the schedule, we're delaying the schedule. To me it sounds like it could be down the road. The first step towards telling people Shohei Ohtani is not going to pitch anymore in the majors. That's fine. He's good enough. He's the MVP without it. But how great would he be if he could get back to pitching the way he did a few years ago? Let's take a break. Coming up, is there any chance Cooper Flag could pull a surprise and stay at Duke for a second season? We're going to ask Jay Dillas.
- [11:16]
Pablo Torre
We'll also ask him what, if anything, is at stake in tomorrow's meeting between seventh ranked Alabama and number one offer.
- [11:23]
Tony Kornheiser
They may not need Ohtani to pitch. If Kershaw is healthy, they've got Blake Snail. If Glasnow is healthy, if Sasaki and Yamamoto can start four games each. They don't need them. They don't need them.
- [11:38]
Jay Bilas
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- [13:40]
Tony Kornheiser
We've got a few questions for our dashing friend from College GameDay, ESPN college basketball analyst Jay Bilis J, you're in Chapel Hill. Duke is at Carolina tomorrow. The other day I suggested to Wilbon, you know that with the nil money that's out there, and I got this idea because I was watching the Duke game where the students started cheering one more year. That with the nil money that's out there, that maybe it made sense for Cooper Flag to stay one more year. If he really loved it, do you feel there's any possibility of that?
- [14:14]
Charles Barkley
I think the only possibility, Tony and Pablo, would be the fact that Cooper flagg just turned 18 years old. And if he doesn't feel like he wants to jump into the NBA financially, the NBA is the way to go. Because it's not just the money he would make now. It's he gets closer to a second contract by leaving now and he'll be the number one pick, there's no question about that. So there's risk Financial risk in staying, but there are reasons to stay. But even though he is saying now that that's a possibility, I think it's a pipe dream that he comes back.
- [14:48]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Speaking of just the number one in this sport, Jay, number one, Auburn. Number seven, Alabama tomorrow. I'm still getting used to the whole SEC dominance thing. What's at stake here between these two teams specifically in your sport?
- [15:02]
Charles Barkley
A number one seed for Auburn, although I think they've got that wrapped up. Auburn made has had such a difficult schedule and they've won against it like crazy. So I can't see anything happening. Auburn losing a game or two heading towards election Sunday where they're not a number one seed. I think for Alabama, they've already wrapped up a double buy in the SEC tournament, but it's a seeding game. It's also a rivalry game though. Alabama's lost a couple in a row. They lost at Tennessee and got beat by Florida. And Florida is as good as anybody. I mean, you know, people think it's Auburn and Duke, but Florida is right with them. So I think it's a three horse race for who's the best team. But I think Alabama's still got a lot to play for. And people forget last year Alabama had a similar type of streak. Not against the same competition they're playing this year. It's a ratcheted up, but then they wound up going to the Final Four. They lost to Florida in their first game in the SEC tournament. They go to the Final Four and the same thing could happen this year. They're that good.
- [15:59]
Pablo Torre
But as you're monitoring the ladder, the hierarchy of college basketball over the course of this season, obviously we've seen teams like Kansas start off at the top and then tumble down the teams that have started from the bottom and are now really impressing you. Give us your executive summary there. What are you impressed by? Who are you impressed by that fits that criteria?
- [16:17]
Charles Barkley
The first two would be Florida and Michigan State. I knew Florida would be good. I didn't think they would be this good. And I really do mean that, Pablo. I think Florida is right there with both Auburn and Duke. They are legit. They've got a ton of really good big guys that are strong, they're very, very skilled. Alex Condon and Thomas Howe can knock down threes. They're excellent passers and it's an outstanding offensive rebounding team as long as they don't turn it over and get a shot up every time down. They rebounded almost 40% of their misses and They've improved greatly defensively this year and they're an outstanding offensive team with as good a core of guards led by Walter Clayton Jr. And Elijah Martin who played in the Final Four for Florida Atlantic a couple years ago. They are the real thing. Size, speed, scoring, defense, you name it. And then Michigan State. When I saw them earlier in the year, I didn't think they were going to be this good. Honestly. They don't shoot it great. I think they've got good shooters that just haven't shot it well this year. They shoot like 29% from three. But another really good rebounding team, they get out in transition. Jace Richardson, their left handed freshman Jason Richardson son is not only one of the best freshmen in the country, he's one of the best players in the country and they're outright Big Ten champs and they're definitely a second weekend team and if they keep playing at the level they've played over the last two months, they can go beyond that.
- [17:36]
Tony Kornheiser
We will get you out of here on this. And it has to do with rules and a rule change. You recently advocated for turning men's college basketball from two 20 minute halves into four 10 minute quarters. The nuance is lost on me. So I want you to explain it, what it means and why you favor it and if you think it is at all likely to occur.
- [17:57]
Charles Barkley
Yeah, I've been advocating that for the last probably 10 plus years. For some reason saying it in the Alabama game the other day, it resonated a little bit. But the reason I think quarters are the right way to go is men's college basketball is literally the only game of basketball in the world that does not have quarters. Women's college basketball is quarters. Fiba, high school, the NBA, they all have quarters. The reason I think it would be advantageous for men's college basketball is you can reset the team fouls at the end of the first and third quarters and that means you're not stuck with fouls you pick up early in a half now these 20 minute halves. And it means fewer free throws on common fouls. And I think that's a good thing for basketball. The reason we're not going to do it is at least the reason that the NCAA claims is commercial inventory. They say there are too many commercials in order to make it work. In women's college basketball there aren't as many commercials yet. So that was workable. They could do it. I think that's an excuse, frankly, that we can do it. If you have to take a time out away from the coaches then take it away. It makes the game cleaner, easier. And we've got to fix the replay rule and go to the NBA rule where each team gets a challenge instead of going over to the monitor constantly. It's not the official's fault, it's the rule's fault. And the games at the end of the game, the last two minutes and overtime. It's a joke how long it takes and it's wrong. We don't need it. And I think that is going to change the quarters thing could take a while because of the commercial inventory excuse.
- [19:24]
Tony Kornheiser
Too many commercials. We can't have it. Too many commercials. Love it. Thank you, Jay. Thank you.
- [19:30]
Pablo Torre
Thank you, Jay.
- [19:31]
Charles Barkley
Thank you.
- [19:32]
Tony Kornheiser
College GameDay starts at 10am Eastern tomorrow with an appearance. Get this kids, from Bill Belichick. Really. Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Bruins make a.
- [19:42]
Pablo Torre
Shocking trade and more evidence that Myles Garrett's trade request does not seem to be going anywhere with the Cleveland else.
- [19:51]
Tony Kornheiser
Bill Belichick will now appear anywhere, anytime, because he's selling. Pablo. He's for the first time, he's got to sell and get people to go to North Carolina. You don't do that in the pros. He's got to sell now.
- [20:08]
Damian Lillard
In case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies, the savants, the ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself. He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness, always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [20:42]
Bill Belichick
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- [21:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Interruption is brought to you by ESPN Tournament Challenge. Play the number one bracket game. Happy time, people. Happy 28th birthday. Dylan Strom. The Washington Capital center came over from the Blackhawks as a free agent a few seasons ago after being close to a bust in Arizona. No, Strom doesn't wear number eight. No, he isn't chasing Wayne Gretzky's all time goals record. But you may be interested to know that Strom leads the Capitals in points this season with 61. And Strom leads the Capitals in assists with 43. And 17 of them have been on Ovechkin goals since arriving in Washington. Strom has more points than anyone on the Caps and has played in more games than anyone on the Caps.
- [21:58]
Pablo Torre
And it is a very happy birthday to him. Absolutely. I just want to point out the story still. Ovechkin, 10 goals away, broke his leg in November. Five weeks later he's back and he's scoring as if he was never injured. I just cannot believe that story is happening this soon.
- [22:17]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy anniversary. George Mikin. This is posthumous, but on this day, 71 years ago, Mike and led the Minneapolis Lakers to a victory over the Milwaukee Hawks. An experimental but official NBA game where the baskets were raised from 10 to 12ft. Mike and the first great big man at 6'Ten was so dominant with his ambidextrous hook shots in the early years of the NBA that league officials were always looking for ways to even the playing field. The original widening of the foul length from 6 to 12ft was known as the Mikan Rule. The lakers won this game 65, 63, shooting only 28%. And afterwards, players and coaches were dismissive of the 1212 foot rim. And we never saw it again.
- [22:58]
Pablo Torre
I love how weird the old NBA is. There are so many great stories about stuff. They tried experiments that they did. And by the way, if you have a rule named after you, the best. If you have a rule and a drill named after you, the Mikan Drill. Layups both hands right and left under the basket. A truly historical figure, George Mikan.
- [23:19]
Tony Kornheiser
Happy trails. Brad Marchand. The Bruins are reportedly trading their captain to their division rival, the Florida Panthers. This is a stunner. The Panthers have knocked the Bruins out of the playoffs the last two seasons and Marchand and his new teammate, Matthew Tkachuk have mixed it up in the past. With Tkachuk out for at least the rest of the regular season with a groin injury and the Bruins in free fall, the trade deadline makes for strange bedfellows. Also today, the Hurricanes, who recently traded Four Nico Rantanen. I hope I pronounced announced that right. Traded him to the Stars where he's reportedly agreed to an eight year extension.
- [23:54]
Pablo Torre
Martian, by the way. The most suspended player in NHL history. Yes. That guy is must see television.
- [24:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Big finish. Here we go. Brown's owner Jimmy Haslam reportedly rejected a meeting with Miles Garrett who wants out of Cleveland. Are you surprised?
- [24:10]
Pablo Torre
I am. He's directing him to the gm. A kind of competent move for an owner I don't take. Expect competence from the commanders. Meanwhile, resigned linebacker Bobby Wagner and released defensive tackle Jonathan Allen. Your thoughts?
- [24:22]
Tony Kornheiser
Bobby Wagner has been great now he's been a leader on that team. The Yankees say Giancarlo Stanton won't be ready anytime soon as he battles tennis elbow in both arms. Your thoughts?
- [24:33]
Pablo Torre
The both arms thing is just. Just stop playing tennis. The 11 year old kids boss rookie call. Remember that kid up to 420 grand at auction with 13 days left. Your thoughts?
- [24:46]
Tony Kornheiser
I'm out of it. I went as high as $4. I'm done. Last one. Your Cavs go for their 13th win in a row tonight in Charlotte. I assume you like their chances.
- [24:56]
Pablo Torre
Love their chances. One of the great offensive teams of all time.
- [25:01]
Tony Kornheiser
We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time. And I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [25:05]
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. Usually there's a sign with my show's name on it. Pablo Torre finds out. But instead, and for now, you're a sports center.
- [25:14]
Tony Kornheiser
Good job, buddy.
- [25:15]
Damian Lillard
Pti in case you didn't know, these young men are driven. They are prodigies. The savants. The ones we've been waiting for. Like Damian Lillard, for instance. He doesn't seek guidance or mentorship. He's a leader. He isn't waiting for the baton to be passed to him. He's taking it for himself.
- [25:30]
Charles Barkley
He's.
- [25:30]
Damian Lillard
He's relentless in a pursuit of greatness. Always pushing to one up himself. He is accomplished, but far from satisfied. He embodies what it means to have an unstoppable drive and are shaking up the status quo in their community and beyond. And Damian Lillard drives a Toyota. A new generation of Toyota drivers are here and they want you to know one thing. You can't stop my drive.
- [25:51]
Jay Bilas
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.