Tony Kornheiser (2:00)

No.

Mike Wilbon (2:01)

Gotcha. But Taylor, See, I don't want to hear he's in the running for mvp. He's the damn MVP right now. And these people who just want to give it to a quarterback, this is not the Heisman. Okay, so Taylor to have 17 touchdowns already, 15 rushes this season.

Tony Kornheiser (2:18)

Fifteen rushes in 10 games.

Mike Wilbon (2:20)

Yeah. So what does he have to do? And when he went down the sideline on that run, you're like, okay, this is now like real football. Which I appreciate from where I'm from that a great running back can carry a team and it doesn't mean his quarterback isn't worthy of praise because he is. It doesn't mean the defense doesn't have to chip in. They have to play complimentary football because they do. He's the mvp. He delivered them in an important game. So. So they don't go down to a whole.

Tony Kornheiser (2:48)

You're not talking about the Bears yet. You're going to wait for me to talk and then you're going to talk about the Bears.

Mike Wilbon (2:52)

Tony, they should have won. They almost lost. They angered me again.

Tony Kornheiser (2:55)

Yeah, no, I understand because we had that conversation.

Mike Wilbon (2:58)

Yes, again. It made me crazy. The cardiac Bears are taking years off my life.

Tony Kornheiser (3:03)

And you thought that if Jackson Dart had played the whole game that they would.

Mike Wilbon (3:05)

The Giants would want. Giants would win the game.

Tony Kornheiser (3:07)

So I'm going to pick the Patriots here and I'm glad that we're not going to conflict fully reasonable. I'm going to pick the Patriots who are now 8 and 2. Last year at this time they were 3 and 7. Okay. The Patriots have now won their two toughest games to this point at Buffalo and at Tampa. They won a close game in Tampa against a team that always wins those kinds of close games. Right. They are going to win the AFC East. They're actually going to win that. And in the last two years they've won only eight games. In both years combined. 8 and 26. This is two people. This is Mike Vrabel and Drake May. And I can't even imagine that Mike Vrabel is not going to be coach of the year. No, I can't imagine nobody saw this coming. You might have said there'll be an improvement, but not this kind of explosion. I agree with you on Indianapolis. Nobody saw that coming either. I agree with you that he's the mvp, though I seem to recall a couple of days last week you were saying you thought Sam Darnold was the mvp.

Mike Wilbon (4:05)

Sam Donald. Look, if I start listing people behind him, I'm going quarterbacks. One in Los Angeles, one in Seattle. I'm going to get quarterbacks back in it. But it's Taylor.

Tony Kornheiser (4:16)

I'm going to. I'll say one other thing because we didn't get to the Chargers. That's a fine win. But I've said on this show and you have agreed that Pittsburgh does not pass the eye test consistently. And the Chargers, they don't win in a scintillating way. But I did not know this until this morning. In the last three games they've only allowed a total of 24.

Mike Wilbon (4:33)

The defense has been better.

Tony Kornheiser (4:34)

Very good.

Mike Wilbon (4:35)

Let me just ask you this question real quickly. Yeah. Aaron Rodgers suddenly looked slightly on the verge of old to you.

Tony Kornheiser (4:42)

He has looked on the verge of old because it doesn't look like he can go down the field. But then he threw that Hail mary that went 65 yards in the air. So I don't know. But they're not. They don't look like the sum of all of the parts is great enough there.

Mike Wilbon (4:55)

Let's stay that way for two more weeks. Oh, you gotta visit the soldier Fee.

Tony Kornheiser (4:58)

Okay.

Mike Wilbon (4:58)

I'd like to see them look feeble just a little while longer. Let's move to the top of the NFC west where the Rams and Seahawks are now tied at 7 2. The Rams hopped out to a 21 nothing lead over the Niners and won 42. 26. Is Matthew Stafford see one of my MVP runner ups?

Tony Kornheiser (5:17)

Yep.

Mike Wilbon (5:18)

Threw for four touchdowns. The Seahawks. Thanks.

Tony Kornheiser (5:19)

And I got stats on Stafford, Pete.

Mike Wilbon (5:21)

Oh, good. Well, thanks to two DeMarcus Lawrence scooping scores, the Seahawks jumped out to a 35 nothing lead against the Cardinals before winning 44 22. So which team do you think Tony more highly of right now? They meet Sunday, Rams or Hawks?

Tony Kornheiser (5:37)

So I feel like I said this the other day on Friday, because I did. I said exactly this. I think Seattle is a very good team. I don't put a whole lot of stock in them destroying Arizona on Sunday because Arizona stinks, as anyone can see if you watch that game. The Rams beat a tougher opponent. The Rams beat San Francisco and they beat them on the road and they put 42 on them. And. And San Francisco had not allowed more than 30 all year. Matthew Stafford threw four touchdown passes again. And here are the stats and they are amazing. Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford, in his last six games has 20 touchdown passes and count them, no interceptions. Flawless for the year. He has 25. 2 in his last 3 games, 13 0. He is on pace for 47 touchdown passes and 4 interceptions. These are video game numbers. And I think I know how good Sam Darnold has become.

Mike Wilbon (6:32)

And he ain't this good, but he doesn't have to be this good by himself. I like what I'm taking, Seattle.

Tony Kornheiser (6:39)

I know you are.

Mike Wilbon (6:39)

And so going into Sunday's game, which is a marquee game, that is the marquee game of the weekend. And I'm looking at Seattle because one, they've got just places where that offense can explode. It doesn't have to be all on Sam Darnold. The defenses are comparable. They're both really good. The Rams are in like second in points allowed, 11th in yard. So you can move it but you're not scored against them. But Seattle's defense is not the legion of boom but it's really good as well. I'm going to take Seattle and Tony. Sam Darnold has something that Matthew Stafford doesn't have. He still has something to prove. Okay. Because Matthew Stafford's going the hall of Fame. He is.

Tony Kornheiser (7:20)

He's going the whole thing.

Mike Wilbon (7:21)

And he's the runner up right now for MVP for me this year. But Sam Darnold is still gotta be. When you are a professional athlete of that stature and a second team after you were great for 16 of 18 games says we're gonna wave bye bye to you for an unproven rookie, you still have something to prove. I like what he's got in front of you.

Tony Kornheiser (7:43)

He's a set of numbers. That is very impressive about Seattle, Seattle. In the last 45 years, since 1980, Seattle is only the second team to score at least 30 points in the first half in three games. Yeah, they were up 35 nothing yesterday. And if that was little league it would have been the mercy rule. They would have called that game. But you ask me, who am I most impressed with? It's Sean McVay and Matthew Stafford by a small margin. Fair enough. Let's conclude our NFL segment with a straight up question. Yesterday, as we both predicted, Baltimore went into Minnesota and they won 2719 in a game marred by eight false start penalties by the home.

Mike Wilbon (8:21)

By the home team.

Tony Kornheiser (8:22)

And in a game that neither of us would have predicted, Buffalo got soundly beaten in Miami 30 to 13 by the previously woebegone Dolphins. Wilbon. Which was the bigger deal?

Mike Wilbon (8:31)

Baltimore going on the road and winning because they had to. Baltimore still had to win. Lamar Jackson, he wasn't exaggerating a couple of weeks ago when he said we have to treat this every week now like it's the playoffs. We have to win every week. He, he's right. Now at some point he won't have to.

Tony Kornheiser (8:46)

Yeah, we're getting close to that point as Pittsburgh loses.

Mike Wilbon (8:49)

But it wasn't yesterday. No, yesterday they had to go to Minnesota and beat the Vikings. Now I'm not going to sit here and say the Vikings are a top three or four. They're coming off a good win though. Coming off a good win at Detroit.

Tony Kornheiser (9:01)

Yeah, good win.

Mike Wilbon (9:02)

So that was a game that Baltimore had to win.

Tony Kornheiser (9:04)

They did.

Mike Wilbon (9:05)

And by the way. It's interesting that the Vikings are blaming Baltimore for sort of what seems to me to be a penalty situation. Calling out signals opposite their own signal caller, which. There's a rule against that. But nonetheless, I think that was a more important. But Buffalo. I've never been convinced, as some people are, that Buffalo. The super bowl runs through Buffalo. No, it doesn't, actually. It hasn't and it hasn't.

Tony Kornheiser (9:29)

All right. So my immediate inclination is to say Buffalo because they lost badly to a terrible team. A team that fired its general manager last week after losing and could have fired its coach as well. Okay. Buffalo was down 16 to nothing in the first half. It's the first time since 2007 that they haven't scored in the first half. It is a devastating loss to me. But in division last week I thought Green Bay suffered a similar devastating loss. They lost to Carolina. A bad team.

Mike Wilbon (10:07)

At home.

Tony Kornheiser (10:08)

At home. Right. So maybe I have to revise my thinking. Maybe I have to say that a pretty good team or a very good team is entitled to one really terrible loss. And it's just a bump in the road. It's not a complete crater. And I agree with you that it's Baltimore. And the reason to me, it's Baltimore. They go on the road and they win the game. It is their third win in a row and it feels. It feels almost prophetic. It feels like they are uniting around their best player, Lamar Jackson, who said we got to win them all. Everything is a playoff game. Everything is a must game. And then they. And then they go and they deliver that game. Do you know who their next three are? Yeah, here's their next three. Cleveland, the jets and Cincinnati. You going to be surprised if they win all of them.

Mike Wilbon (10:50)

They should run the table as they want to see in college football.

Tony Kornheiser (10:54)

The next three.

Mike Wilbon (10:55)

Do you agree? And these three already would give them six in a row and they'd be back as Pittsburgh.

Tony Kornheiser (11:00)

I hope their favor.

Mike Wilbon (11:01)

I hope.

Tony Kornheiser (11:02)

Let's take a break. Coming up. Was Indiana's late win over Penn State the most compelling result of the college football weekend.

Mike Wilbon (11:09)

And two guardians pitchers get indicted in connection with sports betting. What's up with that?

Tony Kornheiser (11:16)

Do I have this number right? That Buffalo allowed 197 yards rushing to Miami.

Mike Wilbon (11:21)

You know what?

Tony Kornheiser (11:22)

Come on.

Mike Wilbon (11:22)

There's no great. Come on. There's no great team unless there's maybe.

Tony Kornheiser (11:25)

Pardon the interruption. Is present.

Commercial Narrator (11:27)

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Tony Kornheiser (11:30)

Drink responsibly. Part of happy hour.

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Tony Kornheiser (13:00)

Welcome back to Pardon the Interruption presented by Bulleit.

Commercial Narrator (13:04)

Frontier Whiskey.

Tony Kornheiser (13:06)

Part of happy hour. Time to find out what's vexing our viewers in mail time. Let me see what's first here. Go to the glasses for this time. Here we go. What was the most compelling result of the college football weekend?

Mike Wilbon (13:26)

That's easy. That's easy. There were a lot of games on. There were some fun games you had, you know, LSU in Alabama, you hit the kid at Texas Tech, Jacob Rodriguez, who's just a beast on defense. I want to see what it'll be like at the next level. Indiana, Penn State. That was the most compelling game. The catch. The catch by Omar Cooper. Tony, that's the greatest catch I've ever seen in college football. Because of what was at stake. In part. First of all, just to catch, the balletic nature of the catch and getting the foot down and holding one up and getting one down inside the line to make it qualify as a game winning catch. But also, you've got the ranking at stake. An undefeated season at stake, a seating at stake, Indiana's national thing at stake. And he makes this catch. Greatest college catch I've ever seen.

Tony Kornheiser (14:24)

I don't want to track over Everything you've said. And I know they pay us occasionally to disagree. Yes, but I'll tell the story, cuz it's inside baseball. I'm playing golf. I get home, the phone rings, it's you. And you say, are you watching? And I go, am I watching what you said? Are you watching Penn State? Indiana? Cuz there's four minutes to go and Penn State is winning. So I turn it on and then we're watching it together in a sense, although we're in separate places and your TV is getting the feed 10 seconds ahead of mine. And you keep telling me what happened and I finally say, shut up and let me watch it in real time. And at that point, Mendoza is going down the field, essentially filming his own Heisman tape. And he finds this kid in the end zone. The kid makes the greatest catch. I agree. In college. So I would love to say Texas Tech. I'd love to say Alabama. I might even say North Carolina. No, it's Indiana.

Mike Wilbon (15:14)

And it's that catch lives forever. Come on, for a basketball school, huh? Indiana, to have basketball, gambling, Major league baseball. What do the indictments of Emmanuel Classe and Luis Ortiz say to you?

Tony Kornheiser (15:32)

Okay, so you're always innocent until proven guilty. Yes, but I read stories about this, I read these charges and it seems like the Chargers are rock solid and totally wired, right? I don't know that I believe that for this action somebody should go to jail. But there's a possibility of a 20 year prison sentence in this, right? Yes. I mean, and you think to yourself, what's going on here? I read the accounts of the lawyers for the defendants saying they are totally innocent. But I gotta say, Mike, as I sit here now, I don't think either of them is ever going to pitch in the major leagues again. And I think that Rob Manfred has to come out and he has to say this is what we are doing to prevent this from happening in the future. Because Mike, these prop bets, they are the poison apple.

Mike Wilbon (16:23)

They are, they are, Tony. And there's now this effort to limit a small element of the prop bets. But going back to what does this say to you? I'm not gonna disagree with anything you said. And if guilty and there's punishment, so be it. I mean, you know the rules. It's explained over and over to you.

Tony Kornheiser (16:42)

You're defrauding the game.

Mike Wilbon (16:44)

Yes. And you know what, Tone? I don't care really. Because at the highest levels of pyramids in this country, in this culture, everybody's betting now. It's on every phone except Yours and mine.

Tony Kornheiser (16:58)

Don't you want it to be honest? Don't you know what you want it to be honest?

Mike Wilbon (17:01)

Does that affect. Does it tilt it in any way that matters to me?

Tony Kornheiser (17:06)

I know what you're gonna say, that it's very small and it's not throwing the game right, but the more these things happen, I can't even disagree on that.

Mike Wilbon (17:14)

There's a sudden flood, there's a sudden slope. But you know what?

Tony Kornheiser (17:17)

Enough email. Let's take one last break. Still to come, the Eagles take on the team that led the effort to ban the Tush push.

Mike Wilbon (17:24)

And some thoughts on the lives and times of Paul Tagliabu and Lenny Wilkins.

Tony Kornheiser (17:30)

It's a thousand cuts, Mike. It's a thousand cuts. You can't have it.

Mike Wilbon (17:35)

I just can't get worked up.

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Tony Kornheiser (20:04)

Pardon the Interruption is presented by Bullock Frontier Whiskey. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy Hour Happy time people. Happy 53rd birthday. Isaac Bruce, the Hall of Fame receiver for the Rams. Bruce led the NFL in receiving yards in 1996. For his career, Bruce had 1024 receptions and 91 receiving touchdowns, both of which are 15th all time. Bruce had 15,208 receiving yards, which is fifth all time. Bruce was on the Greatest show on Turf Rams in St. Louis and was on the 1999 Super Bowl Rams who won when the Tennessee Titans were stopped at the one yard line as time expired. Kurt Warner was the Rams quarterback then. The Rams trend of great passers and great receivers continues now in la, where Matthew Stafford has thrown to Cooper cup and now Puka Nukua and Devontae Adams.

Mike Wilbon (20:58)

Doesn't it seem like that team was not celebrated enough? Is not celebrated enough.

Tony Kornheiser (21:04)

Kurt Warner had great he's in the hall of Fame.

Mike Wilbon (21:07)

He is in the hall of Fame. They both are. By the way, I love listening to Kurt Warner calling games in studio or calling games, but because particularly on games.

Tony Kornheiser (21:15)

Happy anniversary Johnny Manziel. On this day 13 years ago, Johnny Football immediately became the Heisman Trophy front runner after personally accounting for 345 of number 15 Texas A&M's 418 yards of offense in a stunning upset at number one Alabama. Manziel is lightning the bottle in this highlight reel, avoiding evading and destroying Alabama. The Cleveland Browns drafted Manziel at number 22 in the 2014 draft, watched him fail, then selected essentially the same type of quarterback, Baker Mayfield, another Heisman winner who also failed there. The Manziel story turned dark over time with reports of drug and alcohol addiction and bipolar disorder. But in college, Johnny Manziel was magic.

Mike Wilbon (22:00)

There's actually a doc on the story of Manziel, an old Johnny Footpound. I live With a teenager who's obsessed with Johnny Manziel. He just can't get enough of Johnny Manziel.

Tony Kornheiser (22:13)

We were doing this show then. That kid was great.

Mike Wilbon (22:16)

He was great.

Tony Kornheiser (22:16)

He was great. College football player A melancholy trails Paul Tagliabu. The former commissioner of the NFL died Sunday at the age of 84. Tagliaboo succeeded Pete Rozelle in the role and spent 17 years as a great steward. The most important thing about Tagliaboo's tenure was the cultivation of labor peace. His relationship with Gene Upshaw prevented season stopping labor issues that had plagued the NFL and other leagues. Tagliabu kept the Saints in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. That was a big deal. Also, he had the second most rebounds ever at Georgetown when he finished his basketball career there. Mike, I know that you were close with Tagliebu, Tony.

Mike Wilbon (22:52)

It became that way over time. First covering him when I was covering the league and was there for the day. He was sort of selected elected to be the commissioner of the NFL following Pete Rozelle, who just sort of left quickly. And it took a while to install Tagliabu, but then, you know, they lived, he and his wife Chan, who I adore, they live in Washington as sort of neighbors. And we have known Paul Tagliaba. We knew him for many, many years. You mentioned the labor piece, the partnership with Gene Upshaw, just the way he handled the Rooney rule. I know the whole concussion thing confounded him at times as the NFL grappled with that at the beginning stages. But Paul Taglieba was a great commissioner, a great man and it's just, you know, it is sad that we are now without him.

Tony Kornheiser (23:38)

He seemed, for a person in that role, he seemed a very progressive man. You don't often get him. And another melancholy trail is Lenny Wilkins. The legendary NBA player and coach died Sunday at the age of 88. Wilkins was a New York City kid, left handed, barely six feet tall, who didn't even play on his high school team until he was a senior. He went to Providence College and was the first in a long line of great guards there in the NBA he was a nine time all star. Spent four seasons as a player coach before moving to coaching full time. In all, he spent 32 seasons in coaching, retiring as the leader in wins, losses and games coached. He's in the hall of Fame as a player and a coach, one of only five men to do that.

Mike Wilbon (24:16)

You know what else he was the only guy to do, Tony, to coach and never coach a Hall of Famer in his prime. The only one he coached in his prime, was himself because he was a player coach, as you mentioned. And speaking of this, there's a thread to me with Lenny Wilkins and Paul Tagney Booth. They were both eloquent, you know what I mean? I mean these were learned, you know, literate men who made their living in sports. But they were so much more than that. So many, so many dimensions. And to lose them on the same day. I trying to figure out what to make of that.

Tony Kornheiser (24:50)

Let's go to the big finish if we could. Joe Burrow returned to limited practice for the Bengals. He can be activated within the next 21 days. Is that a big deal?

Mike Wilbon (24:58)

A huge deal if they can get him back. Dan Campbell took over play calling duties as the Lions crushed the Commanders. Your thoughts?

Tony Kornheiser (25:05)

It worked. Keep doing it.

Mike Wilbon (25:06)

Yeah, don't worry.

Tony Kornheiser (25:07)

Don't worry about the brain drain anymore. Former LSU coach Brian Kelly has reportedly turned down two settlement offers. He wants the full $54 million remaining on his contract. Does that make sense?

Mike Wilbon (25:17)

Not a penny less.

Tony Kornheiser (25:19)

What do they think?

Mike Wilbon (25:20)

You gotta get a discount. You fired me and now you want a discount? Nathan McKinnon, Avalanche has nine points in the last two games. I know you're impressed.

Tony Kornheiser (25:29)

I think he's leading league in scoring. And second is. Who is it?

Mike Wilbon (25:32)

One of your guys, Mr. Bedard?

Tony Kornheiser (25:34)

Last one Monday Night Football. Eagles and Packers. Who got in this one.

Mike Wilbon (25:38)

I'm obsessed with this game. Yeah, I can't wait for this game. It's at Lambeau. I think the snow moves through. We should have yesterday's weather.

Tony Kornheiser (25:47)

You're not rooting for the packers, are you?

Mike Wilbon (25:48)

Oh, no, no, no.

Tony Kornheiser (25:50)

I know we are out of time. We will try to do better the next time. And I am Tony Cornhot.

Mike Wilbon (25:54)

I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.

Commercial Narrator (25:57)

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