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Pablo Torre
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Tony Kornheiser
Tony Kornheiser I don't spend much time in barbershops anymore. Perhaps you've noticed there's not a lot of need for me to go to a barbershop. Yeah, fair. Pablo, I want to ask you a question. It's summer, as we know. I broke out this jacket. This jacket is a mauve color. I don't think Wilbon would wear it. But do you like. What do you think of it? Because I could dump it like, like after the first break.
Pablo Torre
It does make me grimace a bit.
Tony Kornheiser
Really get the reference.
Pablo Torre
Really? McDonald's. The Big Purple guy. Big purple guy grimace. Cool. Really grimace. The character grimace.
Tony Kornheiser
Wow. I knew I shouldn't have bought this. I knew it was a mistake. Welcome to pti, boys and girls. Wilm has the day off, so I'm joined by our great friend, the host of the podcast, Pablo Torre finds out, Mr. Pablo Torre. That's nice. Nice ovation. And we begin today with the World Cup. Pablo the semifinals are set. Spain will play France tomorrow. In Jerry World, these two teams are widely regarded as the stronger duo. England will play Argentina in Atlanta on Wednesday. These two had the more adventurous paths getting this far. Pablo which of the four remaining teams do you find the most compelling?
Pablo Torre
It's England. It's England because it's been 60 years. It's been 60 years, Tony, since the World cup was won by a nation that fancied itself the cradle of football in some regard. And also right now in the present tense here in 2026, there's a bit of tension between the manager, Thomas Tuchel, who came out after England won that game, and he said this was lucky, this was sloppy. He basically lit into his players. And the best player on the team, Jude Bellingham, had just heard the crowd serenade him with hey Jude. And then he gets that from his manager and he says basically in response, I don't know if our coach knows what it's like to play against a team like Norway. And that's some American old fashioned coach and player tension. To me. And so I like the idea that as this miracle run may be happening, underneath the surface, thinly veiled, is a bit of perhaps animosity between the star and a coach, which is such an American thing once again.
Tony Kornheiser
So, you know, I don't really know much about soccer, but everybody I talk to believes that France is the strongest team out there. They all love Mbappe. They all love Mbappe, and they think that France has had the most dominating run so far in terms of goal differential. In the group event, France had 13 goals and gave up two. And now in the knockout round, they have six goals and they haven't given up any. Spain has given up one fewer goal, but Spain has 11 goals and France has 19. I agree with you, though, about England. I think England has had the greatest single win in the entire World Cup. They go into altitude in Mexico at a stadium where Mexico had played 89 games and had only lost twice, and England beats them and I believe gets three goals against them. And then England comes out of that, goes to sea level, I think, in Miami, and beats Norway. Norway goes up one nothing. England scores the next two goals. As you said, Jude Bellingham, he got both goals for England and he got serenaded. And what's great about that is that is an English crowd singing an English Beatles song to that guy. This is not Take Me Home, Country Roads, West Virginia. These are the Beatles. These are the Beatles for, you know, for an English team. I would say, though, as a newspaper guy, the greatest story so far is Messi, because he could be, at 39, still the best player in the world, so I would be okay if he won. But you and others have talked about this recently that it seems sort of not fair. The way they got past Egypt, it seemed like maybe that was a boat race, you know, that that wasn't. That wasn't a legitimate thing. I don't know.
Pablo Torre
Well, and I will say, as the magazine reporter, I mean, you're the columnist I used to embed with these fan bases at the World cup when I covered it in 2014 in Brazil. The English fans are this beautif mix of self defeatism, but also self awareness around how futile all of it is. And they are so thirsty for this thing to finally come home. And so if they do it, the idea of a bunch of guys wearing night costumes serenading people with Oasis and the Beatles and feeling joy as their skin is sunburned from Miami, I just find that amazing on every possible visual level. But there's an even bigger World cup story I think we should discuss here FIFA. Tony is going to consider broadening the field of teams from 48 to 64 for the next tournament. And I'll remind you, this has been the year, the first year of 48 teams, up from 32. So would FIFA be wise to expand this field again?
Tony Kornheiser
So I have sat on this show with Wil Bond 100 times and we have talked about the expansion of the NCAA basketball tournament. And each time, both of us has been against it. We've been against we. Against the 64, against it to 68, against it to 76. It'll probably go to 96, go to 128 at some point. And I've always been against it because I think it is rewarding mediocrity. I am less strident in the world of soccer than I am about basketball. I just. I sort of feel that it's going to happen anyway. So let me get on the right side of this issue. Soccer is, is indeed the world's game. Every single country in the world plays that at a higher pitch. See what I did there than the United States. So I mean, to me, if you want to go higher, if you want to go to 64 teams, man, I don't think it's the end of the world. And I would present as evidence for going to 64. Cape Verde. Cape Verde gets into the knockout round. They almost beat Argentina, right? They have a population less than Baltimore, Maryland, and they did so well. So, I mean, you can convince me that in soccer, 64 is legit.
Pablo Torre
So as always, I begin by quoting Donut Donald Meyer to you, right? The answer to all your questions is money. This is why they do it. You get more games. And these World cup games are global events, the biggest events that we have left on the planet. So that's why they're doing it. But is it a good idea? Look, I was with you. I shared the skepticism around how much can you lose scared scarcity while boosting value. But this tournament was top to bottom, the strongest tournament of my lifetime. And I don't think it's particularly close. And so the idea that you're really getting at is if for each of these nations there are 200 or so FIFA member nations, if for each of these nations this feels existential, they carry that drama and those stakes into even the least impressive and interesting matchup in the tournament. And what we found is that if you have a bunch of Davids going up against a bunch of Goliaths, you kind of want to see what happens. Because in each of Those Davids. There might be the one guy that you remember, like the Cape Verde goalie who was, you know, anonymous, and that was 40 million Instagram followers. We're sticking around for stories and subplots as well as the entertainment.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I mean, there's Cape Verde, there's Bosnia, there's Congo, Norway, which is, I think, ranked 31st, got all the way to the quarter, and this was. This was the year of expansion. So, yeah, of course they're. They're going to do it again, and money is the reason that they're going to do it again. But I don't think it's. I don't think it's all that terrible. I think, you know, if you don't allow these teams in, this is not like taking six SEC teams. If you don't allow these teams in, you discourage soccer in a lot of these places. And so for me, it's not the worst thing in the world, even though normally I would say, yes, this is the worst thing in the world. They went through it 32, 48. They can go 48 to 64. It's not terrible. Let's move to tomorrow night's All Star Game in Philadelphia. Philly starter Zach Wheeler, he's 101 this year with a 213 ERA. He was indefensibly left off the All Star team, loudly complained how he'd been disrespected. So then when baseball tried a makeup call and added him to the team, Wheeler gave them the finger and said he wasn't going. Wheeler said, quote, I'm not going to be like the fifth option. Once I feel like they kind of messed that up, I'm out. I'm just not going to participate in that thing. That thing, unquote. Pablo, do you endorse Zach Wheeler's position to turn down an invite to the All Star Game?
Pablo Torre
I'm listening to you read Zach Wheeler's quotes, and I'm like, man, this guy sounds kind of like how I imagine Tony Kornheiser would sound if presented with the same scenario about himself. I have to imagine, Tony, that you understand the level in which you understand your own estimation and how you would feel the friction when others do not. Now, the thing I will point out to both you and Zach Wheeler is that from the outside, most people wouldn't have made a mountain of a distinction between, man, you got added a little bit late, and being added originally, I think, in the end, right on the epitaph on the baseball reference page, it says, you are an All Star and you could take it and just take it and be the bigger person and no one is really the wiser. But I kind of love, as I love with certain television hosts, the absolute furnace fueled by resentment. And I kind of respect that he made a mountain out of this because he didn't have to.
Tony Kornheiser
So, yeah, I do identify with him in that regard. I mean, I get why he feels this way. Baseball has completely hosed him. He's 10 1A 213 ERA. He has started 15 games for the Phillies. The Phillies have won 14 of those games. He's had 34 strikeouts in his last three games. If you look at who's starting the game, it is his teammate, Christopher Sanchez, and deservedly so, because Christopher Sanchez went 50 and 2/3 innings earlier this year, did not allow an earned run, but his numbers are 114 and 242 or 26 2. So Wheeler has better numbers and that's why he told baseball to shove it. And here I'm going to surprise you a little bit because I think he's making a mistake. And the reason I think he's making a mistake is one thing. The game's in Philadelphia. He plays for the Phillies. This is his team. This is his park. These are his fans. Go there and feel the embrace of the fans. If you want to rail about this, you can rail about it. But indeed, they're offering you this kind of an apology. And I honestly, I honestly think he should take it. Pablo. I think he can't pitch anyway. He pitched yesterday. People that pitch on Sunday are not allowed to pitch in the Tuesday game. So it's just ceremonial. It's him. And somebody like Tareks Goble would fall in that category. It's just ceremonial. So get out there, doff your cap and bathe in the embrace of your fans. I think he's cutting off his nose despite his face. I do.
Pablo Torre
You know, I am surprised at first by you saying that. And then I realized that Tony Kornheiser corollary, which is you have to appreciate the value of working from home as you are right now. So I get it.
Tony Kornheiser
It's fair.
Pablo Torre
It's fair to point out.
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, that's what this show is all about. Wilbon's three homes in my one and a half. Let's take a break. But coming up, who should be happier with their heater? The Red Sox or the Yankees?
Pablo Torre
And which was the more intriguing fight? The one in which Conor McGregor buckled or the one pitting Bam Adebayo against Tyler Ihiro?
Tony Kornheiser
I write all these notes and then I forget everything that I've ever said. You know, I just. The thing I wanted to say earlier was let's wait. Let's wait for a 16 to beat a 1 in soccer. When UMBC beats France, you call me Rich Eisen here with some advice. If high interest credit card debt is grinding you down, it might be time to call an audible. With a Sofi personal loan, it consolidates your debt into one low monthly payment with no fees required. And with as soon as the same day funding, you can make the right play fast. Call an audible on your debt today@sofi.com debtplay loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NM LS 696891 fast funds terms apply@sofi.com
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Tony Kornheiser
It is time to chew on the gristle known as your emails. I'll get the first one and I'll get it from a new mailbox. Mail time.
Pablo Torre
Don't get tetanus.
Tony Kornheiser
Brand new mailbox. Here we go.
Pablo Torre
Off that new mailbox.
Tony Kornheiser
Which team should be more relieved heading into the All Star break, Pablo, the Red Sox or the Yankees?
Pablo Torre
So I will begin with the Red Sox, who I left for dead at the bottom of the American League, only to discover that they're the greatest team in baseball right now. They've won nine in a row. I believe they are currently on a run that has terrified me even as, by the way, as you know, my New York Yankees made just like, I would say delightfully dispiriting work for you as a guy who pays attention to the Washington Nationals being the eighth inning on Friday. That's right, Saturday and Sunday only to come back every time and win. And so I am going to pick the Yankees for that reason. But I get if you're saying to yourself, well, doing that the Red Sox are also pretty good.
Tony Kornheiser
No, the Red Sox are the answer because as you say, they were in last place in the American League and then they won nine in a row and 14 out of 16 and now they're a half a game out of the wild card. And so Red Sox fans are thrilled and also stunned. But let me get to the Nats for a second. Does the Yankees, if they had the Gnats on the schedule all the time, they would never lose any games. The Nats led these three games over the weekend late, and they lost in the ninth, in the eighth, and in the eighth. And this is because their bullpen is terrible. And this is what happened three weeks ago with the Phillies where they lost in the ninth, the ninth and the ninth. The Nats bullpens era at home from the eighth inning on 8:08. That's not an area code, kids. That's their. That's their era. 808. They have already blown 27 out of 54 save opportunities. They're going to set a major league record at this pace for blown save opportunities. And they and Pablo, they lead the league in scoring. They're in all these games, they're winning late and they. And no. And their bullpen stinks.
Pablo Torre
That's the theme. Yeah.
Tony Kornheiser
More intriguing recent fight McGregor Holloway or Hero Adebayo.
Pablo Torre
Okay, so Hero Adebayo is an Internet thing. I'll explain it to you because I don't think you're on the Internet ever. Tyler Herro had like a secret second account in which he was criticizing Bam out of bio. Bam. Adebayo apparently discovered it, validated its existence by the fact that he threw a punch apparently at an AAU event at Tyler Hero. Of course, Tyler Hero no longer on the team. That feels both new and different and also the same. If you follow the NBA, we've kind of seen versions of that before. Jordan pooled, Raymond Green. I'm not so moved by it. But the Conor McGregor thing, I say that because that is an instance in which he has about. I mean, you measure his performance in seconds before his leg gives out and you're thinking to yourself, was everything even on the level here? That is an event that makes me wonder about the integrity of everything. And not because I have any evidence, just because it seems insane to me that this happened immediately after so much hype, which many people were betting on the guy. And so you're left wondering, what is the story here? And I continue, continue to wonder that,
Tony Kornheiser
yeah, I don't care much for kickbox. And I had thought Conor McGregor retired to make whiskey. So I'm going to go to the other thing. I talked to Greg Cody this morning of the Miami Herald. He told me all about Adebayo and Hero. They had Played together on the Miami Heat for seven years. They are very popular in the city of Miami. And as you say, reportedly, Herro, after the trade for Giannis Antetokounmpo was direct messaging. I'm not sure I have that term right, with some alleged fan. And he pointed out the inadequacies of Adebayo shooting and sometimes his defense. And Adebayo learned all about this. And they were a summer league game. And Adebayo says hello by punching him in the head. Okay, punch him in his head. Hey, how you doing? Haven't seen you a long time. I'm punching the head a couple of times now. I would love to side with Tyler Herro, but I can't because he's the antagonist in this or the protagonist. And as he started the whole thing, I think Adebayo behaved terribly, but it's hard to blame him, given what had gone on. Enough of your email. Let's take one last break. But still to come, Jannik sinner comes back to win Wimbledon.
Pablo Torre
And Marty Fish. How did we not lead with this? Marty Fish won celebrity golf. But that's not even who you're here to talk about, Tony.
Tony Kornheiser
No, I want. Yeah, I want to talk about other people in the celebrity golf. That's. I mean, that's how you say hello to an old friend. You punch him in the face. I mean, he couldn't have seen that coming, right? He couldn't have. Well, he couldn't. He said, well, maybe he's angry at me. He's not gonna punch me in the face.
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Boom.
Pablo Torre
The next time, lights out.
Tony Kornheiser
See ya. Yeah. Oh, he'll be ready the next time.
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Tony Kornheiser
Happy time, people. Happy 70th birthday, Michael Spinks. Michael is the younger brother of Leon Spinks, giving them that rare household where two kids grew up to be Olympic gold medalists and heavyweight champion of the world. Michael Spinks was first light heavyweight champ and then heavyweight Champ, building a 310 record. But his career reached its denouement when Spinks was knocked out by Mike tyson. In just one minute, 31 seconds of the first round. I was there in Atlantic City. Spinks appeared uneasy in the corner, almost like he didn't want to come out. Tyson was all fury then. One of the most fearsome boxers ever. Spinks really never had a chance. And you know what? He never fought again.
Pablo Torre
And Spinks was legit. He had beaten Larry Holmes twice, I believe, had beaten Jerry Cooney. And so the force that Tyson was to end that man's career is extraordinary in retrospect.
Tony Kornheiser
That was Tyson as a young man. Yes. Happy anniversary, American League All Stars. On this day 55 years ago, Johnny Bench, Henry Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Reggie Jackson, Frank Robinson and Harmon Killebrew all hit home runs in the Major League All Star Game at Tiger stadium. There were 22 future hall of Famers. A jaw dropping number in that game that the American League won. 6, 4. And Bench said, quote, it wasn't a game, it was the world. In 1971, the fans and managers picked all the guys who they were sure to be in the hall of Fame, unquote. The top highlight was Reggie Jackson crushing a Doc Ellis pitch off the power generator on the right field roof. That's 520ft from home plate.
Pablo Torre
I am going to make the third Doc Ellis reference of this show, I think, by pointing out that I thought the Doc Ellis career highlight was him throwing a no hitter on lsd. But I've learned a lot today and I should work some other things into that repertoire.
Tony Kornheiser
I suppose you could write a book about Doc Ellis. I would read it. Happy trails. Wimbledon. Linda Noskova needed three sets to take the title on the women's side over our fellow Czech, Karolina Muhova. And on the men's side, Jannik Sinner had won 14 straight sets against Alexander Zverev, but fell in the first before bouncing back to win the next three. Sinner now has five Grand Slam titles, which sounds like a lot until you realize Carlos Alcaraz has seven, even though he's missed the last two due to a wrist injury. No word yet as to whether Alcaraz will make it back to challenge Sinner at the US Open, which starts in six weeks.
Pablo Torre
Yeah, Sinner needed this one. If he didn't win this one, it would have been a letdown because of Alcaraz's absence since I also love that Djokovic, by the way, on the way out was like, I think you guys are underestimating how good I've been. Which is also maybe fair. Although it's also not the best person to give that message to the public. You know, the guy who's saying that about himself.
Tony Kornheiser
So let's go to the big finish. Frank Vogel joining Steve Kerr's coaching staff as associate head coach. Is that significant?
Pablo Torre
He's a human tea leaf. He coached LeBron to a title with the Lakers. So, yes. Former tennis player Marty Fish won his third celebrity golf tournament. Are you impressed?
Tony Kornheiser
All right. Friends of PTI in that tournament. Taylor Twillman, 8th. Nate Bargetzi, 24th. Jay Bilis, T48. Steve Young, 55th. Charles Barkley, 69th. Rich Eisen, 88th. Victor Wembanyama signed a max deal for 25% of the cap instead of a supermax of 30%. What does that mean?
Pablo Torre
It means Jalen Brunson is making people take less money, and I might have more work to do as an investigator. Ha. Ron Yu won the Evian for her second straight major. Is that a big deal?
Tony Kornheiser
She's only won two tournaments. They're both majors. She won in a playoff. She threw a 60 in the third round. 60 home run tonight. Home Run Derby. Who you got? Pablo?
Pablo Torre
Give me Ben Rice. Give me the guy who had a triple against your Nats. Give me the guy with the last name that has the same name as my favorite carbohydrate.
Tony Kornheiser
Are you insane? You're not picking Schwarber. He's a coiled snake out there. We're out of time. Try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
Pablo Torre
And I'm Pablo Torre. Pablo Torre finds out is the show where I look into stuff. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer.
Date: July 13, 2026
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser, guest host Pablo Torre (standing in for Michael Wilbon)
Main Theme: Debating which team is most compelling in the World Cup semifinals, plus a discussion on tournament expansion, baseball’s All-Star Game, and more on the week’s biggest sports stories.
[01:17 – 04:43]
England’s Drama and Star Power:
France's Dominance & Messi’s Story:
[04:43 – 08:03]
Tony’s Take:
Pablo’s Perspective:
[08:03 – 11:58]
[13:53 – 15:50]
[15:52 – 18:22]
[19:20 – 22:17]
[22:17 – 23:35]
The episode is a breezy, fast-paced blend of deep sports knowledge, classic PTI banter, and pop culture riffs. Pablo’s clever, slightly irreverent humor pairs well with Tony’s seasoned columnist’s wisdom and dry wit. The analysis is insightful but always conversational, never bogged down by jargon.
For listeners and non-listeners alike, the episode delivers sharp takes on the World Cup, the logic (and business) behind tournament expansion, a side of MLB All-Star resentment, and the usual delightful blend of PTI sports grumbling.