Why the Cavaliers Win over the Pistons Was So Crucial?

Summary

PTI Podcast Summary: "Why the Cavaliers Win over the Pistons Was So Crucial?"

Date: March 4, 2026
Hosts: Tony Kornheiser & Michael Wilbon
Guest: Buster Olney (ESPN Senior Writer)

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Episode Overview

In this spirited episode, Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon tackle the significance of the Cavaliers’ victory over the Pistons, the Malik Willis free agency buzz in the NFL, and the ongoing debate over "players’ coaches" versus "tough guy" coaches. The show rounds out with a special segment featuring Buster Olney on the World Baseball Classic and MLB storylines, plus a rapid-fire wrap-up of the day's sports headlines.

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Main Discussions & Insights

1. Cleveland Cavaliers’ Statement Win over Detroit Pistons

Theme: Was Cleveland’s 113-109 victory without Donovan Mitchell a big deal?

• Wilbon's Take: It’s a “big deal” for Cleveland, if not the whole league, mainly because of the context and the implications for team toughness.
  • “People hear everything, particularly social media. ... You better win some home games and ... against your rivals.” (01:33, Mike Wilbon)
  • Pointed to Kendrick Perkins' criticism of Cleveland’s post-season toughness last year.
• Tony’s View: Vilifies the win as a "little deal," unless you consider its impact on Cade Cunningham’s MVP candidacy.
  • “If you are inclined to vote for Cade Cunningham as MVP in the league, this would make you back away a little bit.” (02:57, Tony Kornheiser)
  • Both hosts agreed the game highlighted how crucial Cunningham is to Detroit and that Cleveland's ability to win without its star was notable.
  • “Their coach Kenny Atkinson said after the game, this was an evaluation, playoff type game.” (03:41, Tony Kornheiser)
• Memorable Quote: “Kendrick Perkins...said of the big guys, Allen and Mobley, they are as soft as clean sheets.” (02:33, Tony Kornheiser)
• Notable Performance: James Harden, playing hurt, led Cleveland in Mitchell’s absence — a nod to his persistence.

Timestamps:

• Discussion begins at [00:54]
• Perkins’ quote referenced at [02:33]
• Impact on MVP conversation at [02:57]
• Coaching comments at [03:41]

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2. NFL Free Agency: Where Should Malik Willis Go?

Theme: The sudden rise of Malik Willis as a top quarterback free agent.

• Tony’s Perspective: Questions the hype, noting Willis’ small sample size (just 3 games last year).
  • “He is a promise. Nothing more than a promise.” (05:33, Tony Kornheiser)
  • Notes Arizona as the logical fit because of coaching and GM connections.
• Wilbon’s Analysis: Acknowledges Willis’ limited action but believes there’s upside:
  • “Damn it, find an offensive coordinator who can do that with Arizona...You have a stud in the making.” (05:54, Mike Wilbon)
  • Wilbon highlights Arizona's young talent, potential draftees, and low-pressure environment.
• Tony on Projections: Skeptical of extrapolated stats and durability over a full season.
  • “Do they ever project how many times you get hit in the mouth and you can't actually do this?” (06:46, Tony Kornheiser)

Timestamps:

• NFL segment starts at [04:16]
• Arizona connections at [05:11]
• Projections and skepticism at [06:44]

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3. Are “Players’ Coaches” Too Soft? Mike McDaniel Debate

Theme: Raheem Mostert’s critique of former Dolphins coach Mike McDaniel for being "too much of a player's coach."

• Wilbon: Not surprised. Argues history shows tough coaches win more.
  • “Overwhelmingly the tough guy coaches who are not players’ coaches win in any sport.” (07:43, Mike Wilbon)
  • Rattles off names: Parcells, Belichick, Shula, etc.
• Tony: Football is different; tough coaching can be necessary for discipline but recognizes that tough doesn’t always mean better.
  • “Football players accept coaching, they like coaching and they believe...that tough guys win.” (08:45, Tony Kornheiser)
  • Notes that abusive tough guys are being pushed out in other sports.
• Wilbon: Tough coaches (Andy Reid, Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs) often have elements of both.
• Consensus: McDaniel may be suited to be a coordinator, not a head coach.

Memorable Quote:

• “As a player, I need somebody tough who's going to lay the hammer down...that impact can definitely be detrimental.” (07:28, Raheem Mostert via Colin Cowherd, quoted by Tony Kornheiser)

Timestamps:

• McDaniel topic starts at [07:06]
• Wilbon’s take on tough coaches at [07:43]
• Tony on football’s need for discipline at [08:45]

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4. World Baseball Classic & Spring Training Preview (with Buster Olney)

Theme: Who will win the WBC? MLB trends and breakout stars.

• Main Pick: Buster favors Japan over the USA, noting the Japanese team's passion and cohesion.
  • “Shohei Ohtani...he's weeping like those guys love to play together.” (12:11, Buster Olney)
• Wild Card: Dominican Republic, “doesn’t think they’re going to lose a game.” (12:49, via Eduardo Perez)
• Breakout Player: Roman Anthony (Red Sox) — “If he stays healthy, he's going to go down in history as one of the all time great Red Sox players.” (13:02, Buster Olney)
• Atlanta Braves Outlook: Jurickson Profar’s suspension “leaves them scrambling,” but Mike Yastrzemski, whom Profar supported, steps into his role. (14:05, Buster Olney)
• Spring Training Standout: Kevin McGonigle (Tigers) compared to Dustin Pedroia for his energy and impact. “He is absolutely wowing the Detroit Tigers.” (14:59, Buster Olney)
• Can Anyone Beat the Dodgers? Buster names the Mariners as the best positioned to challenge L.A.: “I think they're going to make it to the World Series and yeah, face the Dodgers.” (16:10, Buster Olney)

Timestamps:

• WBC discussion begins at [11:49]
• Buster’s Japan/USA assessment at [12:11]
• Breakout player Roman Anthony at [13:02]
• Braves/Profar segment at [14:05]
• Spring training prospects at [14:47]
• Dodgers/Mariners at [16:10]

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5. Rapid-Fire Sports Headlines & Memorable Moments

NFL:

• George Pickens receives franchise tag from Cowboys — $27.3M for next season after a breakout year.
  • “Pickens...catches 93 passes for 1429 yards, third best in the NFL and nine receiving touchdowns.” (19:23, Tony Kornheiser)
• Pickens versus other top receivers debated. Wilbon: “I’m taking JSN, Puka Nacua, Justin Jefferson, Ja’Marr Chase and Amon-Ra St. Brown. I’m taking those guys over him every day of the week.” (20:06, Mike Wilbon)

College Basketball:

• Gonzaga’s rise — have been atop the polls but never won a title.
  • “I think you got to win.” (21:30, Tony Kornheiser)
  • Wilbon defends their “blue blood” status.

Golf (TGL):

• Tiger’s Jupiter team pulls off a dramatic simulator win, Tom Kim hits walk-off.
  • “Said Tiger quote best indoor experience ever, said Tom Kim. I've never been tackled before.” (21:35, Tony Kornheiser)

Lou Holtz Tribute:

• Legendary coach passes away; remembered for Notre Dame title and TV charisma.
  • “Holtz was known for his sense of humor and his second act came as an analyst.” (22:51, Tony Kornheiser)

Quick Hits:

• Chiefs trade All-Pro CB to Rams ([23:30])
• Bill Self ejected as Kansas loses ([23:43])
• BYU’s AJ Dybantsa considers staying in college for family ([24:10])
• Patriots to release Stefon Diggs ([24:25])
• Thunder-Knicks as possible NBA Finals preview ([24:33])

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Standout Quotes & Humor

• “They are as soft as clean sheets.” — Kendrick Perkins, cited by Tony ([02:33])
• “Anybody but the Jets." — Tony, on quarterback destinations ([04:43])
• “Do they ever project how many times you get hit in the mouth?” — Tony, skeptical of QB projections ([06:44])
• “I've never been tackled before.” — Tom Kim after the TGL win ([21:35])
• “God did not put Lou Holtz on this earth to coach pro football.” – Lou Holtz (22:51, Tony quoting Holtz)

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Useful Timestamps

• Cavs v Pistons Significance: [00:54]–[04:15]
• Malik Willis Free Agency: [04:16]–[07:06]
• Players’ Coaches Debate: [07:06]–[10:21]
• World Baseball Classic / MLB: [11:49]–[16:57]
• Rapid Fire Headlines & Tribute: [19:23]–[24:39]

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Tone and Style

• Banter-heavy, fast-paced, opinionated: Wilbon and Kornheiser trade barbs and punchy insights throughout.
• Authenticity: Hosts mix humor with deep sports knowledge (“I play bedsheet golf, but I’m not watching it. Come on now.” — Wilbon [17:28])
• Direct, occasionally irreverent: They don’t shy from poking fun at each other or questioning common sports narratives.

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Conclusion

This PTI episode serves up classic Kornheiser and Wilbon: strong opinions, sharp debate, and memorable guests. Whether you’re invested in the Cavaliers’ toughness, the rise of Malik Willis, coaching philosophies, or baseball’s spring storylines, the hosts cover it all with energy, humor, and insight.

Transcript

[Mike Wilbon]

5:00am I'm up with a crisp Celsius energy drink running 12 miles today. Grab a green juice, quick change and head to work. Meetings, workshops. One more Celsius. No slowing down. Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls for a little dancing. Celsius Live Fit.

[Commercial Announcer]

Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at

[Mike Wilbon]

your local retailer or locate [e-mail]. pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbond. It's national dance the waltz day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tony, can you walt Tony Kornheiser? No, but I can Penguin dance. Hit it, boys. To the side. Back to the front. Slow it down and speed it up.

[Mike Wilbon]

That was a VP fastball right down the middle. Can you waltz?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No. I could when I was a kid. I have forgotten. How did you know? Can you waltz? Yeah. For your own wedding?

[Mike Wilbon]

I think so.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Fantastic. Where'd you have your wedding? In Paris? Welcome to pti, boys and girls. In today's episode, where should Malik Willis go? Is Mike McDaniel too much of a player's coach? And Buster only joins us to talk spring training and the World Baseball Classic. But we begin today with the NBA. Two contenders in the east met last night as Detroit went to Cleveland. Cleveland was without their leading scorer, Donovan Mitchell, and Detroit may have had rabbit ears because an unnamed Cavalier told the Cleveland Plain Dealer last week, quote, the Pistons are not in our class, unquote. Cleveland won last night, 113, 109. Wilbon was to say, big deal, a little deal or no deal for the whole league.

[Mike Wilbon]

It was no deal for Detroit. I'm not sure was much of a deal for the Cleveland Cavaliers. It was a big deal because, Tony, you could take that, that quote different ways. I took it at the time to be sort of a challenge to his own team. His own team. People hear everything, particularly social media. Those guys on the team, not only even if the quote was anonymous, they know who it was, whose mouth it came from. And so we're getting to that point of the season where. Where you better win some home games and you better win against your rivals. And that's what Detroit is in the standings in the conference geographically. That's what Detroit is to Cleveland and Cleveland, you know, we heard Perk say it yesterday, and I believe that former players, particularly tough guys and Perk qualifies. They looked at Cleveland last year and went, what are you doing? You won all these games, you got into the playoffs and you rolled over and you did it physically, even though you got twin towers and guys who appear to be tough physically. What are you Doing so they did to Cade Cunningham what they needed to do in that game. Detroit will bounce back, but Cleveland had

[Tony Kornheiser]

to have that to re amplify what you just said. Kendrick Perkins, hours before that game said of the big guys, Allen and Mobley, they are as soft as clean sheets.

[Mike Wilbon]

He did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a pretty great quote. All right, let me get to this. I will tell you that I think it is a little deal. Normally I would say it was no deal. Okay, I'm going to tell you it was a little deal because of this one thing and this could make it a big deal. It's about Kate Cunningham you just mentioned.

[Mike Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

4 for 16, 0 for 3 from 3 and 5 turnovers last week against San Antonio, 5 for 26 in a loss. These are two good teams, San Antonio and Cleveland. These are two playoff teams. If you are inclined to vote for Cade Cunningham as MVP in the league, this would make you back away a little bit. Now, it doesn't happen all the time. For example, 1121 against Cleveland last week, 1116 against Oklahoma City last week, 1734 against the Knicks earlier. So he doesn't always.

[Mike Wilbon]

He's only had like five bad shooting games.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I'm just saying it gives you a little bit of pause.

[Mike Wilbon]

It does. And it also underscores how valuable he actually is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Mike Wilbon]

Because if he doesn't have a great game, Detroit's in trouble. They need that extra score and there's no way to get him. We're past the trade deadline.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Normally I would tell you that this thing doesn't count at all, but that is a good win for Cleveland. There is drama in that. Their coach Kenny Atkinson said after the game, this was an evaluation, playoff type game.

[Mike Wilbon]

They needed this, Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And when they win without 25 points a game from their best scorer and with James Harden going 5 for 14, that's a pretty good win by the way.

[Mike Wilbon]

Harden give you a nod. Harden, even though he has got that busted thumb or whatever it is, he's out there. I know he didn't shoot it well, but he knows this is maybe his,

[Tony Kornheiser]

you know what I've said?

[Mike Wilbon]

Last great chance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mike Wilbon]

Let's move to the National Football League where one of the hottest quarterbacks in the market has been a backup. Malik Willis has played in just 11 games over two seasons with the packers, but Yahoo has him in line for a two year deal at 25 to 35 million dollars per season. Among the teams that could have interest or have interest, the Cardinals, the Dolphins, the Steelers. Tony, if you're Malik Willis. Which of those teams would you want to quarterback?

[Tony Kornheiser]

My answer would be the same if I was Malik Willis or Dontrell Willis or Willis Reed. Anybody but the Jets. I don't want anything to do with the Jets. And then I'm now going to ask the unspoken question here. Why is Malik Willis such a big deal after three games last year with Green Bay? Now, let's go to the numbers. He had a 2:1 record. He had six touchdown passes and no interceptions. He completed 78.7% of his passes, which is great. But it's three games. It's not 17. It's three.

[Mike Wilbon]

Who are those three against?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Does it suddenly vault him over Kyler Murray? Does it vault him over Kirk Cousins or Aaron Rodgers or Geno Smith? Look, here's what I think. Arizona makes the most sense because he played for Matt LaFleur in Green Bay and Matt LaFleur's brother is now the coach at Arizona.

[Mike Wilbon]

And the GM is the guy who's involved in his draft. The current GM in Arizona.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Cleveland always needs a quarterback. Maybe Pittsburgh needs a quarterback. Minnesota, you know, somebody else. I'm just saying to you that in my mind right now, he is a promise. Nothing more than a promise. That's all I'm saying.

[Mike Wilbon]

Look, Tony, you're right. The sample size is small. I happen to be sitting in the stadium watching those sample size lives.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He played the Bears.

[Mike Wilbon]

He comes in against the Bears when his boy gets knocked out. Jordan Love. And he goes 9, 4, 11. He was fabulous. He ran it. I understand they called safer plays, they called screens, they called rollouts which were favorable to him. Then, damn it, find an offensive coordinator who can do that with Arizona. Because in that young Ohio State receiver, you have a stud in the making who's going into what is third season, second season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Got hurt last year.

[Mike Wilbon]

Got hurt last year a little bit. You got Trey McBride playing tight end. And they may draft the running back out of Notre.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's very good. Low. He's very.

[Mike Wilbon]

And if they do that, Tony, they're going to be just. They're going to be lined up at the offensive.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jeremiah Love.

[Mike Wilbon]

Jeremiah Love.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jeremiah Love.

[Mike Wilbon]

They're going to be lined up. So why wouldn't you go there? And by the way, the pressure is less there than it is in Pittsburgh and other.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because nobody cares.

[Mike Wilbon]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you know they are projecting numbers? 17 game season numbers for Malik Willis. Here are the projections. Over 70 games, 3473 passing yards, 986 rushing yards and four total touchdowns. If he's that good. Kansas City ought to go get him. Okay. Do they ever project how many times you get hit in the mouth and you can't actually do this?

[Mike Wilbon]

Tony, this kid's good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, we'll see. We'll see. Let's stay with the NFL and a bunch of comments by free agent running back Maheem Mosert about Mike McDaniel, who he played for for eight seasons in San Francisco and Miami. McDaniel was fired after this past season in Miami and Mosert said McDaniel is too much of a player's coach. Mosert told Colin Cowherd, quote, as a player, I need somebody tough who's going to lay the hammer down when it needs to be down and tell other players to get in line when you don't have that, that impact can definitely be detrimental, unquote. That's a great quote. Wilbon Are you surprised players might want more of a tough gu.

[Mike Wilbon]

No. In a lot of years of covering sports, Tony, players, real players and players who are not afraid of that challenge, they know that more often than not, overwhelmingly the tough guy coaches who are not players, coaches win in any sport. And we could be talking about Pat Riley and Phil Jackson in basketball. We could be talking about Parcells and Belichick and Shula and Hallis, Lambo and Lombardi.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It starts with Lombardi, starts with him.

[Mike Wilbon]

We could be talking about him. We could be talking about Scotty Bowman. You. It doesn't matter the sport. Bob Knight. You're talking about guys who may be too tough at times, but the players coach is rare that wins at that level. Would you call Jimmy Johnson a player's coach?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I might.

[Mike Wilbon]

He certainly had elements of that. Maybe. Maybe Andy Reid and Mike Ditka had elements of.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I might call Bill Walsh.

[Mike Wilbon]

You might call Bill Walsh.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You knew Bill Walsh. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

[Mike Wilbon]

But mostly, yes, when you line them up, Joe Gibbs might have had elements of both authoritarian tough guy. Right. So no players know who wins.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I want to make one point here early on. This doesn't mean that we think that all tough guys are great coaches because there are some terrible tough guys as coaches and they get out of the business early because they stink. What does not surprise me at all about this is it comes from a football player. Of all the sports that we have, football players accept coaching, they like coaching and they believe, looking at the history of the NFL, that tough guys win. That doesn't. Not all the time. I mean, we're talking about profess the Difference. Tough guy. Coaches in a lot of sports have fallen out of favor and deservedly so. They have been abusive to their players and everybody knows this to be true. But again, football is different. Football has the most players on the field. They got 11 out there. They need the most discipline of any sport. They need that. So football players, it's a business. If there's a player's coach who helps him in the business, they'll take him. If there's a tough guy who helps them in the business, they'll take him. But what we may be seeing is that Mike McDaniel doesn't have that gear, that he may be suited better to being a coordinator than head coach. Like our friend North Toronto.

[Mike Wilbon]

I was going to mention North Tom. Brilliant offensive mind who was not the guy who was going to lay the hammer down because he wasn't going to

[Tony Kornheiser]

do it, you know, But I'm not football coach. Football players saying this does not surprise me.

[Mike Wilbon]

I think now in baseball, there's no, there's no Billy Martins out there anymore, are there?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I think there are.

[Mike Wilbon]

Dick Williams.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I know.

[Mike Wilbon]

Are there? In baseball?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think there are, Sure. I think there are. And not all of them win, but I think that they're out there. Let's take a break. Coming up, the World Baseball Classic starts tonight. We're gonna ask Buster only who he favors.

[Mike Wilbon]

We'll also ask him which team he believes has the best shot of keeping the dodgers from a three field.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Andy Reid. Tough guy. But with Donovan, Don McNabb and with Patrick Mahomes, draw up a play and get out of their way. Play to test.

[Mike Wilbon]

Why? Said he had elements of both. Yeah, you know, didn't have elements of both.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Red Auerbach.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

The World Baseball Classic begins tonight in Japan with the United States opening play on Friday. We have some questions about that and about spring training for our great friend ESPN senior writer Buster Olney. We'll start with this. The United States team is stacked. It has more pitching this time around, obviously with guys like Skubal and Skeins. But when analyzing all the teams, who is your pick to win this thing?

[Buster Olney]

So I'm going to go back to what happened the last time we had a wbc guys. I'm going to say that Japan's going to win it again. Look, you're always looking for the team that's most invested and since the WBC began, Japan's players have always shown up. The other day, Shohei Ohtani, you know, he's introduced and he's weeping like those guys love to play together. I've got them beating the USA team, which I think is better than it's been in the past. But as you know, Tarek Skubel is going to pitch once. Paul Skeen is going to pitch a couple of times. I don't think they're going to have enough pitching to get through. My colleague Eduardo Perez says watch out for the Dominican Republic. He doesn't think they're going to lose a game this tournament.

[Mike Wilbon]

Wow, it's good to start there with some talk about teams. Let's talk about individuals for a second. Buster, is there any player in this competition that you are particularly zeroed in on?

[Buster Olney]

That would be Roman Anthony of the Boston Red Sox, who this year is going to emerge for casual baseball fans into a superstar. Look, he's only got 71 games in the big leagues and 303 plate appearances. He's just 21 years old and yet when you talk to people around baseball about him, they think he's a star right now and he's going to become something great. JP Ricciardi, the former general manager of the Blue Jays, told me, look, if he stays healthy, he's going to go down in history as one of the all time great Red Sox players. And I don't know if you guys got a chance to see him in that USA lineup in the game on Tuesday, but blasts a home run and I think we're going to see a

[Mike Wilbon]

whole lot of that.

[Buster Olney]

Aaron Boone says He's going to be a problem.

[Mike Wilbon]

We can talk to you about that competition, this competition forever, but let's broaden this out for a second. Buster, I want to ask you about baseball suspending Jerrickson Profar for 162 games for PEDs. Where does this leave the Braves?

[Buster Olney]

Scrambling. Look, they had a terrible season last year because they had awful luck with injuries and they're having a Murphy's Law spring training right away. They lose a couple of starting pitchers and then they get this news on Juricks and Profar. Look, the one thing that's interesting, though, is that Mikey Strempski, who they signed during the off season, steps into Profar's role. Before the Braves signed Yastremski, they called Profar, this is back in December, and said, hey, we're thinking about adding an extra outfielder. What do you think? It might push you to dh. And Profar said to them, go get him. He's a great player. So now Mike Yastrzemski is stepping into a role that was partly created by the guy who got suspended for the year.

[Mike Wilbon]

Let's talk about young players for a second. Who in spring training, Buster, has impressed you so far that you know he's going to have your eye going Into April?

[Buster Olney]

Kevin McGonagall, infielder for the Detroit Tigers. Mike, I mean, he just looks amazing. You know, I asked some evaluators for comps because he's about 5. He's listed at 5 10, but he's got more of the body of a sports writer at 5 foot 8. And I asked some evaluator for comps and one of them said to me he is Dustin Pedroia in terms of his energy and the way that he plays and the way that it feels like he rubs off on other players. Tarek Schoolbell told me the other day, he is a grinder. There's a question when the Tiger spring training began, will he make the team? He's forcing the matter. Last night in that game that they played against Dominican Republic, it's a 437 foot home run. His first plate appearance, has two more singles. He is absolutely wowing the Detroit Tigers. This is someone who in his draft in 2023 was his 37th player taken because he's so short.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This would be thrilling if a guy with a body like a sports writer became a great player. That would be great. We'll get you out of here on this. And we have to ask this. The Dodgers are a great team. The Dodgers are the clear favorite to win The World Series again. This would be a third straight time. They know what they're doing. Which team in your opinion is best positioned to unseat them?

[Buster Olney]

Yeah, Tony, I feel like to not pick the Dodgers would be to make up reasons, right? Just to be interesting. And the team that interests me, the Seattle Mariners, who played last year in the American League Championship Series. And I love the moves they made over the wintertime. Re signing Josh Naylor to play first base, trading for Brendan Donovan, who's a great complement with their lineup. They got a couple of really nice young players coming up. Colt Emerson on the left side of the infield. Kate Anderson, who was a first round draft pick, left handed pitcher. It feels like with Julio Rodriguez, Cal Raleigh, that great pitching staff, they're going to take a step forward. I think they're going to make it to the World Series and yeah, face the Dodgers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what we need. We need the Mariners and then we need the football team. And we need the football team. I can't see them.

[Mike Wilbon]

You won't be up where you are.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Too late for me. Thank you, Buster.

[Mike Wilbon]

I appreciate it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you, Buster.

[Buster Olney]

Thanks, guys.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's take one last break. Still to come, a moment to remember. In bed sheet golf, I believe I had this.

[Mike Wilbon]

The Chiefs trade a key corner to the Rams for a bunch of picks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did you watch TGL last night? Did you stay up and watch?

[Mike Wilbon]

It's not good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's not staying up for you. It started at nine.

[Mike Wilbon]

Just college basketball. What are you doing?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Come on, bet she go.

[Mike Wilbon]

What are you doing? No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you play basketball or do you play golf?

[Mike Wilbon]

Golf.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So what are you doing?

[Mike Wilbon]

You know what? I play bedsheet golf, but I'm not watching it. Come on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy time people. Happy 25th birthday George Pickens Pickens was just given the franchise tag by the Dallas Cowboys, which means he actually will get his money, though not as much as he wants. Pickens made $3.65 million this season. Because the franchise tag guarantees you the average of the top five players in your position, Pickens will make nearly $27.3 million from the Cowboys next season. Pickens started with the Steelers, was not one of Mike Tomlin's favorite players. Pittsburgh traded Pickens with a sixth round draft pick to Dallas in 2025 for two other draft picks. Pickens had a great year for the Cowboys, catching 93 passes for 1429 yards, third best in the NFL and nine receiving touchdowns.

[Mike Wilbon]

Pickens is terrific, but I'm taking JSN Puka Nukua, Justin Jefferson, Ja' Marr Chase and Amon Ross St. Brown. I'm taking those guys over him every day of the week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You could take somebody from his own team. You could take CD Lamb if you wanted to.

[Mike Wilbon]

I think I might take Pickens of all them. They're great together, but I'm just saying let's not act like he's the best thing in the league.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Happy Anniversary Gonzaga on this date 13 years ago, Gonzaga found itself on top of the Associated Press Top 25 poll for the first time ever. Gonzaga then rolled into the NCAA Tournament as a number one seed, ran into a buzzsaw in number nine seed Wichita State, losing in the second round. Gonzaga has since been ranked number one in three other seasons. They have been a one seed in the NCAA Tournament five times, but have yet to win it. They lost to North Carolina in the 2017 final and got drummed by Baylor in the 2021 final by 16 points. Gonzaga has only made two Final Fours. Some of us think it's because they don't play enough good teams in the latter part of the season.

[Mike Wilbon]

Okay, I get the you. You referring to St. Mary's in the conference.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's it.

[Mike Wilbon]

But they got to the finals twice. Yes, and they, they didn't deserve to get far once cuz they Northwestern got hosed in a game against Gonzaga with a one versus eight situation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you don't think they've been underachieving since they got to be real good?

[Mike Wilbon]

No, I think they're a blue blood in college basketball or near it. Right underneath the ones who won a lot. Historically.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think you got to win. I think you got to win Happy trails to the Bay Golf Club.

[Mike Wilbon]

Oh, here we go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A playoff berth was on the line in TGL last night. Wilbon the Bay was leading by one on the second to last hole when Tigers Jupiter team threw the hammer to make Tom Kim's effort worth double and Kim responded with a hole in one to take the lead. The team went bananas. Tiger reacted as if he'd won a major, said Tiger quote best indoor experience ever, said Tom Kim. I've never been tackled before. Jupiter sealed the win on the last I believe I had this.

[Mike Wilbon]

Am I going to catch you at the simulator? Is that what you. Are you doing that now?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I would do that. I've done that a few times. But you don't watch this. It can be very exciting and Tom Kim by the way has the exact personality that you want in this very excitable and very team oriented. And the melancholy trails we're sorry to say to Lou Holtz, the coach and broadcaster has passed away at the age of 89. Holtz coached at six schools, most prominently at Notre Dame where he went 130 and two and won a national title in 1988. The school has not won a title Since. Holtz had one forgettable stint in the NFL going 310 with the jets in 1976 and resigning before the finish of the season saying quote God did not put Lou Holtz on this earth to coach pro football. Holtz was known for his sense of humor and his second act came as an analyst at both CBS Sports and then at espn.

[Mike Wilbon]

And he was great on television. He's somebody you look forward to watching if you're a college football fan. I certainly did, but I was around enough when he was a coach in Notre Dame Lou Holtz, a big deal in college football for a long, long time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. I was in New York, of course, when he coached the jets and it did not work at all. And he got out quickly. He understood as of what he said it wasn't for him. He's one of the great college coaches of all time. He is. And it is, it's important to say because Notre Dame is a great football program, that's the last title I've ever won. That's not a knock on Notre Dame. That is to show you how good a coach, how difficult it is.

[Mike Wilbon]

He went back there to pull them out of some doldrums and did it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Let's go to the big finish. The Chiefs traded two time All Pro cornerback Trent McDuffie to the Rams for a first, third, fifth and sixth. Who gets the better of this deal?

[Mike Wilbon]

First, fifth and sixth are this year for Kansas City. You know, cornerbacks sort of come and go. Bill Self was ejected. Kansas got upset by Arizona State last night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Big deal. You don't expect that from Bill Self. And so I wonder if he wanted it to happen to show his team something. I'm not certain. BYU star AJ Debanza told the Desiree News that he might not leave college because his mom wants him to graduate. Do you think he could stay?

[Mike Wilbon]

I always love hearing this sentiment. And then I ask somebody, hey, how much do you make as a rookie now in the NBA? The answer is $13 million. Just that one year. Hard to stay. The Patriots will reportedly release wide receiver Stefon Diggs. You surprised?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I am not because he's been in the news negatively lately. They could maybe go get A.J. brown. Last one. Thunder, Knicks, Hornets, Celtics. Tonight, which is the more intriguing matchup?

[Mike Wilbon]

The Hornets are now fun to watch. But let's not get crazy, okay? Thunder. Knicks is an NBA Finals preview.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Perhaps we're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornheim.

[Mike Wilbon]

Celtics win that game big at home. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.

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