OCD Awareness Week 2024

Summary

Purely OCD

Episode: OCD Awareness Week 2024

Hosts: Lauren McMeikan Rosen, LMFT, & Kelley Franke, LMFT
Date: October 15, 2024

---

Episode Overview

In recognition of OCD Awareness Week 2024, licensed therapists and OCD specialists Lauren Rosen and Kelley Franke, who are both in recovery themselves, hold a candid, heartfelt, and humor-infused conversation about OCD. They reflect on how public dialogue and advocacy have evolved, share their personal turning points in recovery, answer live listener questions, and underscore the significance of building community, self-compassion, and hope in OCD recovery. This episode is particularly rich with personal anecdotes, practical perspectives on exposure and response prevention (ERP), and deep empathy for the OCD experience.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Evolution of OCD Awareness

• Gratitude for Advocacy Platforms:

  • Lauren and Kelley express thankfulness for the current climate, where discussing OCD openly on social media is possible and supportive communities exist.
  • Lauren (01:05): “I’m really grateful that this platform exists…when you and I were first diagnosed or first struggling, this really was not…it wasn’t a resource.”

• The Rapid Growth of OCD Advocacy:

  • Noted how in just the past decade, the sharing and advocacy around OCD have significantly increased.
  • Kelley (02:04): “It happened pretty quickly...ten years ago, it was there, but not to the level it’s at now.”

Personal Turning Points in Recovery

• Recovery Is Not Linear or Black-and-White:

  • Both therapists challenge the idea of “arriving” at recovery, explaining that it’s about how you respond to thoughts rather than eliminating them.
  • Lauren (04:46): “We define recovery more from a space of how are you responding to your thoughts and feelings rather than the absence of thoughts and feelings.”

• Lauren’s Aha Moment—Letting Go of Certainty:

  • Lauren recounts obsessing about whether eating tiramisu while sober counted as a relapse, and how her therapist helped her see the OCD cycle was about not letting go of the need for certainty.
  • Lauren (06:34): “It doesn’t matter whether or not you relapsed. This is still OCD because you…won’t put it down…you are continually in this decision making process and you refuse to just land on a decision.”

• Kelley’s Aha Moment—Radical Acceptance of Uncertainty and Loss:

  • Kelley discusses a pivotal acceptance: the reality that her child could die, and that resisting this fact leads to making decisions from fear.
  • Kelley (09:53): “You either can accept that or you can resist it and just be feeling like the rest of your life and making every decision out of fear.”

• Embracing Uncertainty Is Universal to OCD Recovery:

  • Both hosts highlight how recognizing the futility in problem-solving uncertainty is a major recovery milestone, even as the form and depth of that realization evolve over time.
  • Lauren (08:05): “A real standout moment for me was when I finally recognized that the question of whether or not it was OCD was a part of the disorder as well.”

Listener Q&A: Irrationality and Intense Fears

• Dealing with Irrational OCD Thoughts:

  • A listener asks about fears like thinking they'll melt from a fever or bleed to death from a cut.
  • Both validate how normal it is in OCD to experience extreme, irrational fears, and explain that anxiety doesn’t respond to logic.
  • Lauren (13:08): “Feelings aren’t rational… anxiety level goes way up and it doesn’t respond to rationality.”

• Probability Versus Possibility:

  • The hosts note that OCD often confuses “could happen” with “will happen” or “likely to happen,” which fuels compulsive behaviors.
  • Kelley (14:11): “Just because it could happen doesn’t mean it will happen or that it’s likely to happen.”

• “Optimism is the best exposure of all.”

  • Referencing earlier advice from their therapists, Lauren and Kelley discuss how acting as if the feared event won’t happen is itself an exposure exercise.
  • Kelley (14:42): “Optimism is the best exposure of all.”

Messages for Those in Recovery

• The Power of Psychoeducation and Hearing Different Voices:

  • Kelley credits education—learning about how OCD works and connecting with various perspectives—as a game changer for her own recovery.
  • Kelley (17:04): “The more you become informed of how it works, how to treat it, how you need to respond and keep that exposure mindset…you’re golden.”

• Self-Compassion, Flexibility, and Acceptance:

  • Both stress that recovery is about building a flexible toolkit—sometimes it’s about being assertive with exposures, sometimes it’s about self-forgiveness, sometimes it’s about humor.
  • Lauren (21:21): “It’s more about accruing different approaches, trying them out, seeing how it goes, and then learning how to improvise with them in the moment when you are struggling.”

• Community and Connection Are Essential:

  • The immense value of finding others who understand and holding space for each other is highlighted.
  • Kelley (25:12): “If you can hold yourself in that experience, that’s a total game changer.”
  • Lauren (25:14): “You’re a beautiful human, Kelley.”

• Encouragement for Those Who Feel Alone:

  • Both hosts underscore the need for reaching out, even if family or friends don’t understand your experience. Supportive OCD communities exist, both locally and online.
  • Lauren (27:33): “IOCDF is a great resource... There are groups really committed to spreading awareness, like Made of Millions, for example.”

Hope, Resilience, and Letting Go of Shame

• Hope for Recovery, Even from the Darkest Moments:

  • Kelley shares about being hospitalized and struggling for years, emphasizing that things can improve dramatically.
  • Kelley (18:18): “It seems like your brain is broken... The reality is, I have seen some dark days in my life... and I have a family and a child that I adore so much that OCD tried to rob me of. And is it hard? Yes. And I know what it is now, though.”

• Recovery Brings a ‘Big, Bold, Beautiful Life’ (Even with Ups and Downs):

  • Lauren cites Rainer Maria Rilke to illustrate that true healing means embracing the full spectrum of existence.
  • Lauren (33:41): “Let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror—just keep going. No feeling is final. And that’s...my hope for people, is that you can go out there and you can live a big, bold, beautiful life that includes all of those things...instead of off trying to resolve some uncertainty that you can’t possibly resolve.”

• OCD Brains Can Also Be Creative and Persistent:

  • Lauren notes (with caveats) that characteristics commonly found in those with OCD—creativity, diligence, sensitivity—are assets when directed appropriately.
  • Lauren (29:48): “There are a lot of things about having a mind that functions in this capacity that…are really remarkable.”

• The Role of Humor and Friendship:

  • The conversation often returns to the value of their friendship, inside jokes (like “laughing in groundlessness”), and being able to find levity even in the toughest moments.
  • Kelley (36:37): “I’m laughing now in groundlessness. So my hope in this…that’s it, right? People die. Deal with that...But then I love the last part, I’m laughing now in groundlessness.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It doesn’t matter whether or not you relapsed. This is still OCD because you…won’t put it down...you are continually in this decision making process and you refuse to just land on a decision.”
– Lauren (06:34)

“You either can accept that or you can resist it and just be feeling like the rest of your life and making every decision out of fear.”
– Kelley (09:53)

“It’s more about accruing different approaches, trying them out, seeing how it goes, and then learning how to improvise with them in the moment when you are struggling.”
– Lauren (21:21)

“If you can hold yourself in that experience, that’s a total game changer.”
– Lauren (25:12)

“Let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror – just keep going. No feeling is final.”
– Lauren quoting Rainer Maria Rilke (33:41)

“I’m laughing now in groundlessness.”
– Kelley (36:37)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] – Reflections on the value of current OCD advocacy spaces
• [03:35] – Personal turning points in OCD recovery (Aha moments)
• [06:34] – Lauren details her therapist’s crucial advice
• [09:53] – Kelley’s acceptance of existential uncertainty
• [12:07] – Listener question: irrational fears and how OCD distorts probability
• [14:42] – “Optimism is the best exposure of all”
• [17:04] – Kelley explains psychoeducation’s impact
• [21:21] – The importance of flexibility and improvising in recovery
• [25:12] – Self-compassion and the transformative power of holding oneself in suffering
• [27:33] – Community support and organizations
• [33:41] – Rilke’s quote about embracing all experience
• [36:37] – Humor, friendship, and “laughing now in groundlessness”

---

Closing Thoughts

Lauren and Kelley’s candid, wise, and gently irreverent conversation is a testament to the many faces of OCD and recovery. They offer powerful insight: Recovery is not about certainty or symptom-eradication but about embracing one’s humanity—including doubt, pain, and joy—with self-compassion, flexibility, and courage. The episode is a celebration of community, advocacy, and the hope that comes from openness, connection, and a willingness to "keep going"—together.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome. I'm Lauren Rosen, licensed marriage and family therapist.

[B]

And I'm Kelly Franke, licensed marriage and family therapist. And this is purely ocd.

[A]

Kelly and I are OCD specialists who happen to also be in recovery from ocd. Ourselves, we meet to talk about all things OCD one topic at a time.

[B]

You may notice we try to bring a little levity and humor to our discussion around this deeply painful disorder, as this has been a very powerful tool for our own recovery as well as our clients.

[A]

Quick reminder, this is not intended as therapy or as a replacement for therapy. This is for educational purposes only.

[B]

So without further ado, here is this week's episode.

[A]

Hello, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode. And it is OCD awareness week of 2024.

[B]

It sure is. Welcome.

[A]

Yeah, welcome. We're. We're here to talk awareness. Spread awareness. That's. That's kind of our jam anyway. Every week of the year, I guess.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

You know, we're. We're about this. So. So, yeah, we thought, as for OCD Awareness Week, that we could talk about some questions from, like, between each other. And if you guys have any questions that you want to. To throw in the chat box, please feel free to do so and we'll answer what we can. But I just want to say I'm really grateful that this platform exists. Right. Like that, I suppose social media more broadly, but that we have this space in which we can talk about OCD openly. Because I know that when you and I were first diagnosed or first struggling, that this really was not. It wasn't a resource. And yeah, I think that it has a huge impact for. For people to be able to come to this space and. And learn more.

[B]

For sure. I agree with that. It's crazy. It happened pretty quickly, too, because if you think back, like 10 years ago, it was there, but not to the level it's at now. Right?

[A]

Totally. Yes. That while social media existed there, the. Yeah. The advocacy community was not as much a part of that space. I mean, when you think of Facebook first coming out and that kind of stuff, so.

[B]

Or MySpace.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Wow. MySpace. That's a. That's a blast in the past. I just want to give a shout out to intros. Oh, my gosh. I can't speak. Intrusive OCD memes is in the house and he's an awesome advocacy account, and he actually came out with this lovely video about OCD and to promote awareness. And Laura of OCD Doodles is part of it and several other folks, I think Katie o', Donne. I think. Yeah. So if. If you're following me on Instagram, you can check out. I think my story still has a link to it, but thanks for putting that together. It's really awesome. There's a lot of hope to be had with this disorder, and. And I think the more people hear that, the better off that they are.

[B]

That's so true. It's so true. I was gonna ask you maybe sort of a personal question. Not too personal.

[A]

I'm so. I'm here for it, man. I don't know. Yeah. If it's too personal, I guess I'll just say something.

[B]

Yeah. You'll just be like, no boundaries. I like how I'm gating it for you. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyways, I guess for you is, like, when was the. The turning point for you in your recovery where you were like. Because, you know, it's up and down, up and down, down, down, down, stable, up. Like, it's all over the place. But sometimes there's kind of this turning point, I think, where you, like, get it right. You get. Oh, this is what. I get it now. I get the uncertainty piece. I get.

[A]

Yeah. I'm really glad that you brought that question up, because I think I hear that a lot from. From clients, from individuals, like, what does recovery look like? And how do you know when you're in recovery versus not? And I really don't think it's so. So black and white as that. As that question that I get asked. But I. I think in answer to your question, it's not about relief, though.

[B]

My question's coming from, like, the concepts.

[A]

Yeah, totally. And I think. I think even that, because you and I both, I think, define recovery more from a space of how are you responding to your thoughts and feelings rather than the absence of thoughts and feelings. Mm. And I think I can say that I know that, but I don't know anything definitively because uncertainty. Did you change your mind yesterday? I don't know. Yeah, but I. I think that the concept or the concepts of recovery, that. The concept of uncertainty and. And the larger concepts within recovery, it's like an onion. I find that with. As the years have progressed, as I've sort of committed to navigating my thoughts and feelings in a different manner, that. Especially those related to doubt and anxiety, that it's almost as though there are different points of realization and different depths of understanding that makes sense. So I don't. I can't name a singular moment. I think one of the moments that stands out most to me Was actually in my initial bout with therapy, though. And I was for months saying to my therapist, but what if it's not ocd? What if it's not ocd? And he was so patient with me, and he. He finally kind of got through to me. And I remember that very distinctly of, no matter what, this is ocd. So basically.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The way he explained it to me, for those of you who are not aware. And then I want to hear about your thoughts on this because I'm chattering too much, but.

[B]

No, you're doing great.

[A]

Thanks, buddy. So I think that essentially when I first went into treatment, my obsessions were about whether or not I'd relapsed by eating a piece of tiramisu. I was sober. I got sober at 19. And so essentially what happened was my. Yeah, my therapist said, it doesn't matter whether or not you relapsed. This is still ocd because you. You won't put it down. Right. You. You are continually in this decision making process and you refuse to just land on a decision. And it was at that point that it occurred to me, oh, it doesn't matter what. Whether or not my thoughts are real or. Yeah, it's just ocd. It's that I'm still trying to figure it out and I won't stop. And that. That's totally taken over my life. And I realize that that would be. Maybe it could be triggering for some people to hear, but ultimately that's the part. The part the disorder is in keeping in the decision making process.

[B]

Right. Distinguishing, like, when. Like that. This. It's irrelevant and that if I'm stuck, I need to pivot.

[A]

Right, Right. I just need to make a choice and go with it and just see what happens. And that's essentially what I did.

[B]

Yeah, you sure did.

[A]

And here we are. I mean, that was a real standout moment for me, was when I finally recognized that the question of whether or not it was OCD was a part of the disorder as well. That there was no. That the content of the thoughts really didn't matter. That it was the fact that I just could not let it go. I wouldn't let it go. I should say I could let it go, but I didn't.

[B]

You were unwilling.

[A]

I was unwilling to let it go. So, yeah, I'm. I'm curious to know, though, you know, what that moment was for you. And I do see that I. That there are some questions coming in, so then we can kind of look at that.

[B]

Yeah, let's answer them.

[A]

Oh, well, I was, I. Oh, oh, mine.

[B]

Sorry. I was like, oh, let's bypass.

[A]

It's too personal.

[B]

I think there's been, like you said, there's a lot of these moments. There's a lot of these aha. Moments that you have in recovery. And I think it's like, for me, a lot of it was psychoeducation. It was like really understanding the concept itself versus, like being in my head. And that's hard to do when you're at an all time low to like read a book on what OCD is. Right. So, like, understanding it from like a treatment standpoint was huge. I think the moment I. I had this click and aha. Moment. One of them was when I had to accept, like, oh, wait, you know, my child could die. She could die. Right. Like, that's just a true statement.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you either can accept that or you can resist it and just be feeling like the rest of your life and making every decision out of fear. It's just.

[A]

Dude, that's so powerful.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, that's good. I'm glad. It felt pretty. It felt pretty powerful when it was happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or, you know, whether it's by my hand or someone else's.

[A]

Well, yeah, that. It. I guess that's the point is that I was actually just having a conversation about this with somebody with health anxiety, among other sort of iterations of ocd, and the conversation became. And again, I. This is triggering probably for. For people, but we don't avoid triggers in this realm. Is that you will die. You are currently dying. Right. The. The question is, when will it happen? How will it happen? Is there something that you could do right now that will delay that from happening or delay that happening? And. But I think that there's a lot of freedom in just saying, like, yeah, it could happen. And then in some instances, it's inevitable. Right. Like, see this a lot with existential ocd, you know, like, well, what if my parents die? And you know, what if, like, like I struggled with way back when I was a kid and. Same. Same, same.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

Yeah. So. Yeah. But I. I actually really appreciate the way that you put it too, because I think it's actually kind of the same realization, but you're supposed to. Way more accessible. No, I'm not even trying to be.

[B]

It's just a different. It's so good that there's two voices here, though, because some people can hear it in a different way. And I think that's. That's also what's so powerful about talking about ocd. For consistently or this entire week. Right. Is just really. Let's hear all the voices and let's.

[A]

So true.

[B]

Yeah. Something will hit.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And that. Yes, we, we need all the different ways of saying it because people will understand it differently based on. On how it's couch and how it's presented. Yeah, absolutely. So one of our, our watchers listeners was asking, do you all struggle with irrationality? If I get a fever, I think I'm gonna melt. If I get a cut, I think I'm gonna bleed to death. Etc. Do you want to take this or.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, sure, we don't all get it because we have different variations, but. Yes, I mean, of course. Right. It's this very extreme. I'm going to take something really small like a paper cut, and that means I'm going to. To bleed. Bleed out. Bleed to death.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It might be like looking to see if it's coagulating or checking or. All the time we see any iteration of this.

[A]

Right. Yeah, well. And I think that the, the interesting thing about this question is that feelings aren't rational. So that's, I think that's how OCD gets its hooks in you, is that anxiety level goes way up and it doesn't respond to rationality. So. So yeah, I, I think to some greater or lesser extent, all of the. The fear that occurs is excessive, if not completely irrational or completely detached from reality.

[B]

Yeah. The intensity is so high. And it does not fit the facts, as you would say, a dvt.

[A]

No.

[B]

At all.

[A]

No. So it does not. It does not play by the rules of logic. It's like, but it could happen. And that's the thing is it could like anything could happen.

[B]

Anything can happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, and I think there's. I think, you know, where I'm going with this is like there's probable. Right. Is it likely?

[A]

Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will happen or that it's likely to happen. And that is a point at which a lot of people with OCD get stuck. It's like, well, it could happen. So it's likely to happen. And therefore I've got to do all these things to make sure that it doesn't. But that's. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And something you told me a long time ago that I think your therapist told you is like optimism is the best exposure of all. Right. And I think it was told to me as well. And it's so true. It's like you truly let go and you. And you're still scared as like, That's. You're scared. You're terrified. Right. But you don't have to be like, oh, it's 50 50, or I'm going to be fixated on only the. The maybe not piece.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the maybe piece versus Right, right.

[A]

That actually, if you. If you. If you act as though it won't happen, that. That's actually a great way into exposure.

[B]

Yes. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah. It's in this vein. I'm curious as to if there was sort of one message that you could give to somebody who's on this that's helped you in your own. And. And as I, like, sort of reflect on this question myself, I'm aware of the fact that that's changed over time, and that's part of that evolution of recovery is, like, at different moments, different things seem very important. But I'm curious, like, where you are now and in your personal journey and your professional journey, what's one thing that you would want somebody on this journey to. To know?

[B]

Such a hard question. I feel like you're being stew right now. End of the podcast question.

[A]

If you had a billboard. Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, man, I know he's gonna ask me that one.

[A]

If you had a billboard and then you were trying to tell people about ocd, what would it look like and what would it say and why? You're welcome. I hope he hears this. So weird.

[B]

You're welcome.

[A]

You're welcome, Stu.

[B]

Speaking of Stu, I am wearing his shirt.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So Stuart Ralph is the host of the OCD stories, which is an awesome podcast, so go check that out if you haven't already. Okay.

[B]

So on. On that same vein is, I think, a huge game changer to me was education. Right. Like an even. And I said that earlier. But I think the more you become informed of how it works, how to treat it, like, how you need to respond and how to keep that exposure. Mindset, it's.

[A]

It's.

[B]

You're golden. Right? It's like, man, listening to the OCD stories as a clinician at that time and also struggling early on with my obsessions were really powerful because I got to hear a lot of different clinicians voice. Voices being. Talking about different variations of it. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then also treating it is like, if I'm gonna ask my clients to do something really gnarly, you.

[A]

You bet your bottom dollar.

[B]

I'm gonna have to go do it.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Can't sit there. I mean, listen, we're. You're gonna have to be okay with doing compulsions. They're gonna happen. It's just gonna happen. Mental compulsions are really in. Yeah, that's one. But you can. You know, you're gonna get stuck sometimes. But to. That's also like allowing grace, allowing your forgiveness, and saying, I'm gonna have practice self compassion, and I'm gonna let that inform the next decisions that I make moving forward. It's like, okay, well, in those moments, maybe I really need support from my friend or maybe I really need to go for a walk and that I can do exposures later and it's not the time. So kind of also getting used to how my OCD works. And like, what I need in those moments that help me get through it. And really, a lot of it's just been like. Nope. Mindfully aggressive, like, we're here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can go down path A. And it ends horribly.

[A]

Yeah. Don't go further down that path. I'm just. I'm not. I have no idea. Thank you for the question. Namaste.

[B]

That and. And knowing that it feels like your brain. It seems like your. Your brain is broken, like it's cracked. And the reality is, is I just. I really would want you to know that I have seen some dark days in my life and have been in hospitals and taken every medication possible, and. And I'm here today doing it. And I have a family and a child that I adore so much that OCD tried to rob me of. And. Is it hard? Yes. And I know what it is now, though. And I go, there. There's that noise that's getting me hooked.

[A]

Yeah. There's doubt. There it is.

[B]

There's doubt. We don't even need to say it's OCD is like that. It's like you said earlier, it's like, I'm getting stuck.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. And I'm not. I'm not doing life the way I want to do it.

[B]

Yeah. Values always.

[A]

Totally. But what I love about what you've. What you've brought up here is I. And I think you're speaking to is the element of flexibility. Because I think a lot of the time when people are first looking or learning about recovery, there's like, okay, I'm gonna find the answer, and that's gonna be the thing, and then I'll be good forever. And that's. That isn't how this works. In my experience and your experience and the clients that we've worked with, I don't think either. It's more about accruing different approaches, trying them out, seeing how it goes, and then learning how to improvise with them in the moment when you are struggling. So it's like, okay, right now I just need a hard line. Like, I can't. I'm not able to. I just need to get really present, like you were saying. Or right now I need to acknowledge that that's uncertain, and I need to open up to this. These emotions and how they are manifest in my body and make space for this whole experience to just be. Or right now I just. I need a little humor just to interrupt this whole experience. Like, whoa, Nelly.

[B]

Definitely been like, you know, our relationship has helped me, like, yeah, well, the.

[A]

End of story, right? Yeah, I agree. I actually just the other day, I. I threatened to put one of our text message exchanges up on that. Up on the Internet. Like, that is.

[B]

You should have.

[A]

Maybe I'll read it as the ending point. Okay. The essence of recovery. And in my opinion. And yeah, I think that that flexibility is seriously. Yes. Don't. Don't take any of life too seriously. It's way too. As I think Mark Twain says, it's far too important, you know, to take so seriously. Or maybe I've just misattributed.

[B]

Yeah, it might be. Yeah, it's. I think it's Ralph. What's his name? Waldo Emerson, maybe.

[A]

Yeah. But anyways, I like him too. He's great. So I also. I. One of the things that I think has become clearer over time in terms of how it impacts recovery from OCD and just supports, like, a healthier relationship with your own mind. I don't think that that as a. A goal can be underestimated, by the way, because it's all this conflict and all this, like, it's like, horrible in here. That's. That's causing oftentimes so much distress. But learning how to be kind and gentle with yourself, no matter what's coming up, I think is such a powerful tool in that. In that flexible toolkit that we were talking about. And so being able to acknowledge and validate your own emotional experience, like, yeah, it is really scary. You know, you take something, like I was saying at the, like toward the beginning of the episode, like, I'm going to die, right? Or my loved one welcome. Yeah. And my loved one is going to die. And that's. That's really scary. It's totally control, Right? Totally. And also that, like, holding yourself in, that is so freaking beautiful. Like, being able to, like, turn toward yourself and, like, hold. Hold your hand on your heart and to say, like, oh, wow. Like, I just felt. Felt that that My stomach, do it a flip, and I'm recognizing just how unstable it all is. And that's so hard. And. And that's our reality. And I'm gonna make space for that. I got you. It's okay. You know, we're gonna walk through this one moment at a time, you know, and obviously, like, we have, like, an existential bent here. That's, like, how my. My obsession started. And I know that Kelly's tends to go this way, too, but it.

[B]

Yeah, it's doing great right now. Oh, no, I'm just kidding. It's fine. It's fine.

[A]

But it is.

[B]

Yeah. Practice the opportunity. This is an opportunity.

[A]

Yeah. But in that, can you soften toward yourself and, like, just extend all the warmth and love? Because it's so hard. It's so hard. It's hard to be a human. It's hard to be alive. But if you can hold yourself in that experience, that's a total game changer.

[B]

It is, for sure.

[A]

You're a beautiful human, Kelly. Just wanted to remind you, in case you were wondering, cry.

[B]

I'm like, don't cry. Hold it together.

[A]

So highly overrated, isn't it?

[B]

Well, I mean, I don't hold it together on the sidelines. I'm in the game, though. Okay.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Thank you. Same. And I wouldn't.

[A]

Have.

[B]

Wouldn't have been here if it weren't for you, that's for damn sure.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, we've. I think that that's for anyone who's watching, too. The beauty of this community is that there are so many people. So many people who understand and who are willing to hold your hand through the hard moments. So reach out. It's terrifying. Also, talk about scary, right? Like, oh, I'm just gonna, like, put myself out there. And I'm not saying that you should just, like, completely bear your soul to a complete stranger. My relationship with Kelly took a very long time and a lot of work to. To build. Right. But. But, yeah, we walk. We walk this journey together, all of us, and that's how we. We get through one day at a time.

[B]

I think that's. You make a good point, too, because I think, well, obviously, it does feel like you're alone if you're. If your partner or your family or whoever's in your life doesn't understand OCD or they can't wrap their minds around it, or you don't feel safe enough to share with them, that you don't have to have those people get it because there are so many resources there's groups. There are people online you can connect with on social media, and everybody's so welcoming and, and loving. We're so lucky to be part of such an awesome community that. Please reach out to people in this community if you haven't already, because they, they are, they're your foundation in a lot of ways.

[A]

Totally. And IOCDF is a great resource in that regard. There's. There are local affiliates here in Southern California. We have OCD SoCal, but they're. They're all over the country in the world. OCD Game Changers does a lot of stuff internationally as well, and throughout the states. You know, there are, like, we mentioned podcasts and like, the OCD stories, and there are groups really committed to spreading awareness, like Made of Millions, for example. So lots and lots and lots of people out there who. Yeah. Who. Who just want to support you and. Because they either have seen so many people who have been there and, and loved people who have been there, or because they've been there themselves.

[B]

Yeah, they get it.

[A]

Yeah, It's. It's just.

[B]

You walk into a room and you're like, oh, you have ocd. And it's almost like, okay. I, like, can take a big sigh of relief.

[A]

Yeah, totally, totally. Because it just. Brain functions similarly. Yeah.

[B]

And so many people keep it hidden, I guess, is my point. They go to their jobs, they, you know, do their family, their friendships, their personal life while struggling. Struggling. And it's incredible that people go in silence for so many years. It's.

[A]

Yeah. Sucks. It does suck. And. Yeah. And my hope is that by talking about it as we do that that becomes less and less necessary over time. Because really, having a brain that works like ours does is nothing to be ashamed of or to want to hide. There are a lot of things about having a mind that functions in this capacity that. That are really remarkable. It's just if.

[B]

It'S. When it goes sideways, stay on the track, stay on the rails.

[A]

Toodle, toodle. I know it is. It's. It's. And I know that there's some controversy. Controversy out there about this idea of like, OCD having benefits. And I'm not saying the disorder itself has benefits. I want to be clear about that. I think that there is a type of. At least this is not research based. This is purely out of my clinical experience, which could very well be biased. But I see people who are creative and thoughtful and who are excellent problem solvers and who are diligent and persistent who end up in my office. And it's just when These tools are misappropriated when you start trying to problem solve thoughts that are very creative or feelings that are very intense because of a sensitivity that we, we get into trouble and that our lives get hijacked. So. Yeah. Any other thoughts on, on spreading awareness? On like maybe words of hope? Oh, look, I'm being Stu again.

[B]

The words of hope would be, I, like I said, is that I've. I've definitely faced some really dark days and I didn't think I'd get through them. And I persisted because I was like, I can't keep doing this and I do want to live.

[A]

So, yeah, I'm.

[B]

I'm gonna try with everything I have and totally throw myself into helping myself get better. And it didn't start with OCD for me. It started with trauma therapy, so. And then it went from there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, everyone's journey is different, that is for sure.

[A]

Yeah, there's always hope. There's always hope. And I love the idea that if you really throw yourself into the process.

[B]

You will get better.

[A]

Like things change and life like on the whole gets so much better. I think the, like, the hope piece on my end, I was actually really taken and I, I know I've shared this with you, but Ellie Brellis, she has a one woman show. I think it's called Driver's Seat. I met her once, but she has a social media platform on Instagram and stuff. And, and she talked very openly about a suicide attempt that she'd made. And she talked specifically about this idea of more. Right. Like that it's not that the hope for the future is that there's never any more pain because that is just not realistic. But knowing that there is so much more and like more joy and excitement and beauty and yes, more pain and challenge and difficulty. As we were talking about earlier, the recovery process, it's not as though there are no more anxious thoughts or feelings. It's like that that still happens. And navigating, that is a part of daily life. It's different. Like the, the navigating process is a lot easier today than it was when I started on this journey. I think for you too. But yeah, understanding that like the beauty of recovery is that you get more of it all. You just, you get to experience it all. There's a quote by Rainier Marie Rilke who wrote yet letters to a young poet. I can speak letters to a young poet. And the quote is, let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror just keep going. No feeling is final. And that's that I mean, that's. I think that that's life on a broader scale. And that's my hope for people, is that you can go out there and you can live a big, bold, beautiful life that includes all of those things, and that you get to be present to that experience instead of off trying to resolve some uncertainty that you can't possibly resolve.

[B]

Wow. I mean, glad you went last. That was so well said.

[A]

Oh, well, thanks, dude.

[B]

It's so true. It's so, so true. Is like, in the darkest moments, you think, this is. This is it. This is it forever. And the reality is, is nothing is permanent. And that if you help yourself and you make change happen, you have the opportunity to live this big, bold life. I love that, that quote. And that includes pain. It does. And a lot of tribulations. But it also includes. If I could see many years ago, when I was at my lowest, where I am now, it would have been so much easier to be like, well, of course I'm gonna not do this. I'm gonna do this way. Right? But.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

You don't feel.

[B]

Feel it in the moment. You don't recognize it. You just let feelings control your decisions.

[A]

Right? Yep. And then. And then you don't. You don't get the big old beautiful. No life.

[B]

No, it is.

[A]

You just know that's. That you're just spinning your wheels. So the. To the recovery, I. I don't think I'm gonna end it. I'm gonna end it on you. Because again, like, to this point of, like, you're just. You, like, you keep going and you keep going, and then you hold each other in it, and you hold yourself in it, and. And there's beauty and there's pain, and there's terror, and there's all of it. So I got this text from my. My best friend, Kelly Frankie, a few days ago, and she said, I spent five and a half hours today doing kid events and had to reschedule events for them. And all I could think was, well, I have to accept uncertainty that people will think I'm an asshole and leave. Oh, and my child might fail, but that's okay. Let that go and be groundless. And then, oh, wait, people die. Deal with it. I'm like, huh, this is too much for me. And then you texted me, and I'm laughing now in groundlessness. So my hope in this. And that's it, right? Like, people die.

[B]

Deal with that.

[A]

People die. Just deal with it. And it's like. But then. But then I love. I Love the last part. I'm laughing now in groundlessness. Right. I'm. Okay, okay. This is happening.

[B]

I don't know if I could have done that if it weren't. I mean, I'm sure I could access it, but to. The fact that we can do that in a text message almost immediately is like, oh, there's someone else out there who gets it. And now we can laugh because we have a rapport and obviously we're best friends, so we know each other really well. That it. The levity is there and I don't. You know, that's.

[A]

The trust is there and the trust. Yeah, that, like, I'm not laughing at you or you're not laughing at me. We're. We're laughing together how shitty this is. Yeah, right? And for content, I had just said I don't like groundlessness.

[B]

Yeah, that's how she started it. That's how it all.

[A]

But of course, groundlessness doesn't give up about what I think. But no, I thought you'd like to know that my stance has not changed in. And that. And I think I said, yeah, it's a very strong stance. Feet cemented outside of Grauman's Chinese Theater strong in case nobody. Like, that's a weird reference probably for the gen zers out there, but, like, really, like your feet really planted in cement. So, yeah, my preference is not to be in that groundless days, but I've also grown and learned so much because of my willingness to laugh in the groundlessness and be in the groundness. Groundlessness and hold myself in the groundlessness.

[B]

So, yeah, it's true. That's how we. We're here.

[A]

Yeah. So. So on that note, Godspeed, everybody. Happy. Oh, my God, I cannot speak. Happy OCD Awareness Week to everybody and sending big hugs to all those out there who are. Who are on this journey with us.

[B]

Thanks for joining us. Just as a reminder, this podcast is not therapy, nor is it intended as a replacement for therapy. If you need further support, we encourage you to seek treatment with a registered professional who specializes in ocd.

[A]

If you have a moment, we'd love to hear what you think. Feel free to leave us any feedback by reviewing us on your podcast app of choice. You can find past episodes on our website@ purelyocd.com Remember, this podcast is for you, so please let us know what you would like to hear. We want to make our message as helpful as it can be.

[B]

We hope you will join us in the future as we continue. Continue our discussion on all things ocd.