Purely OCD

Episode: OCD Awareness Week 2024

Hosts: Lauren McMeikan Rosen, LMFT, & Kelley Franke, LMFT
Date: October 15, 2024

Episode Overview

In recognition of OCD Awareness Week 2024, licensed therapists and OCD specialists Lauren Rosen and Kelley Franke, who are both in recovery themselves, hold a candid, heartfelt, and humor-infused conversation about OCD. They reflect on how public dialogue and advocacy have evolved, share their personal turning points in recovery, answer live listener questions, and underscore the significance of building community, self-compassion, and hope in OCD recovery. This episode is particularly rich with personal anecdotes, practical perspectives on exposure and response prevention (ERP), and deep empathy for the OCD experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Evolution of OCD Awareness

• Gratitude for Advocacy Platforms:

  • Lauren and Kelley express thankfulness for the current climate, where discussing OCD openly on social media is possible and supportive communities exist.
  • Lauren (01:05): “I’m really grateful that this platform exists…when you and I were first diagnosed or first struggling, this really was not…it wasn’t a resource.”

• The Rapid Growth of OCD Advocacy:

  • Noted how in just the past decade, the sharing and advocacy around OCD have significantly increased.
  • Kelley (02:04): “It happened pretty quickly...ten years ago, it was there, but not to the level it’s at now.”

Personal Turning Points in Recovery

• Recovery Is Not Linear or Black-and-White:

  • Both therapists challenge the idea of “arriving” at recovery, explaining that it’s about how you respond to thoughts rather than eliminating them.
  • Lauren (04:46): “We define recovery more from a space of how are you responding to your thoughts and feelings rather than the absence of thoughts and feelings.”

• Lauren’s Aha Moment—Letting Go of Certainty:

  • Lauren recounts obsessing about whether eating tiramisu while sober counted as a relapse, and how her therapist helped her see the OCD cycle was about not letting go of the need for certainty.
  • Lauren (06:34): “It doesn’t matter whether or not you relapsed. This is still OCD because you…won’t put it down…you are continually in this decision making process and you refuse to just land on a decision.”

• Kelley’s Aha Moment—Radical Acceptance of Uncertainty and Loss:

  • Kelley discusses a pivotal acceptance: the reality that her child could die, and that resisting this fact leads to making decisions from fear.
  • Kelley (09:53): “You either can accept that or you can resist it and just be feeling like the rest of your life and making every decision out of fear.”

• Embracing Uncertainty Is Universal to OCD Recovery:

  • Both hosts highlight how recognizing the futility in problem-solving uncertainty is a major recovery milestone, even as the form and depth of that realization evolve over time.
  • Lauren (08:05): “A real standout moment for me was when I finally recognized that the question of whether or not it was OCD was a part of the disorder as well.”

Listener Q&A: Irrationality and Intense Fears

• Dealing with Irrational OCD Thoughts:

  • A listener asks about fears like thinking they'll melt from a fever or bleed to death from a cut.
  • Both validate how normal it is in OCD to experience extreme, irrational fears, and explain that anxiety doesn’t respond to logic.
  • Lauren (13:08): “Feelings aren’t rational… anxiety level goes way up and it doesn’t respond to rationality.”

• Probability Versus Possibility:

  • The hosts note that OCD often confuses “could happen” with “will happen” or “likely to happen,” which fuels compulsive behaviors.
  • Kelley (14:11): “Just because it could happen doesn’t mean it will happen or that it’s likely to happen.”

• “Optimism is the best exposure of all.”

  • Referencing earlier advice from their therapists, Lauren and Kelley discuss how acting as if the feared event won’t happen is itself an exposure exercise.
  • Kelley (14:42): “Optimism is the best exposure of all.”

Messages for Those in Recovery

• The Power of Psychoeducation and Hearing Different Voices:

  • Kelley credits education—learning about how OCD works and connecting with various perspectives—as a game changer for her own recovery.
  • Kelley (17:04): “The more you become informed of how it works, how to treat it, how you need to respond and keep that exposure mindset…you’re golden.”

• Self-Compassion, Flexibility, and Acceptance:

  • Both stress that recovery is about building a flexible toolkit—sometimes it’s about being assertive with exposures, sometimes it’s about self-forgiveness, sometimes it’s about humor.
  • Lauren (21:21): “It’s more about accruing different approaches, trying them out, seeing how it goes, and then learning how to improvise with them in the moment when you are struggling.”

• Community and Connection Are Essential:

  • The immense value of finding others who understand and holding space for each other is highlighted.
  • Kelley (25:12): “If you can hold yourself in that experience, that’s a total game changer.”
  • Lauren (25:14): “You’re a beautiful human, Kelley.”

• Encouragement for Those Who Feel Alone:

  • Both hosts underscore the need for reaching out, even if family or friends don’t understand your experience. Supportive OCD communities exist, both locally and online.
  • Lauren (27:33): “IOCDF is a great resource... There are groups really committed to spreading awareness, like Made of Millions, for example.”

Hope, Resilience, and Letting Go of Shame

• Hope for Recovery, Even from the Darkest Moments:

  • Kelley shares about being hospitalized and struggling for years, emphasizing that things can improve dramatically.
  • Kelley (18:18): “It seems like your brain is broken... The reality is, I have seen some dark days in my life... and I have a family and a child that I adore so much that OCD tried to rob me of. And is it hard? Yes. And I know what it is now, though.”

• Recovery Brings a ‘Big, Bold, Beautiful Life’ (Even with Ups and Downs):

  • Lauren cites Rainer Maria Rilke to illustrate that true healing means embracing the full spectrum of existence.
  • Lauren (33:41): “Let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror—just keep going. No feeling is final. And that’s...my hope for people, is that you can go out there and you can live a big, bold, beautiful life that includes all of those things...instead of off trying to resolve some uncertainty that you can’t possibly resolve.”

• OCD Brains Can Also Be Creative and Persistent:

  • Lauren notes (with caveats) that characteristics commonly found in those with OCD—creativity, diligence, sensitivity—are assets when directed appropriately.
  • Lauren (29:48): “There are a lot of things about having a mind that functions in this capacity that…are really remarkable.”

• The Role of Humor and Friendship:

  • The conversation often returns to the value of their friendship, inside jokes (like “laughing in groundlessness”), and being able to find levity even in the toughest moments.
  • Kelley (36:37): “I’m laughing now in groundlessness. So my hope in this…that’s it, right? People die. Deal with that...But then I love the last part, I’m laughing now in groundlessness.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“It doesn’t matter whether or not you relapsed. This is still OCD because you…won’t put it down...you are continually in this decision making process and you refuse to just land on a decision.”
– Lauren (06:34)

“You either can accept that or you can resist it and just be feeling like the rest of your life and making every decision out of fear.”
– Kelley (09:53)

“It’s more about accruing different approaches, trying them out, seeing how it goes, and then learning how to improvise with them in the moment when you are struggling.”
– Lauren (21:21)

“If you can hold yourself in that experience, that’s a total game changer.”
– Lauren (25:12)

“Let everything happen to you. Beauty and terror – just keep going. No feeling is final.”
– Lauren quoting Rainer Maria Rilke (33:41)

“I’m laughing now in groundlessness.”
– Kelley (36:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] – Reflections on the value of current OCD advocacy spaces
• [03:35] – Personal turning points in OCD recovery (Aha moments)
• [06:34] – Lauren details her therapist’s crucial advice
• [09:53] – Kelley’s acceptance of existential uncertainty
• [12:07] – Listener question: irrational fears and how OCD distorts probability
• [14:42] – “Optimism is the best exposure of all”
• [17:04] – Kelley explains psychoeducation’s impact
• [21:21] – The importance of flexibility and improvising in recovery
• [25:12] – Self-compassion and the transformative power of holding oneself in suffering
• [27:33] – Community support and organizations
• [33:41] – Rilke’s quote about embracing all experience
• [36:37] – Humor, friendship, and “laughing now in groundlessness”

Closing Thoughts

Lauren and Kelley’s candid, wise, and gently irreverent conversation is a testament to the many faces of OCD and recovery. They offer powerful insight: Recovery is not about certainty or symptom-eradication but about embracing one’s humanity—including doubt, pain, and joy—with self-compassion, flexibility, and courage. The episode is a celebration of community, advocacy, and the hope that comes from openness, connection, and a willingness to "keep going"—together.