The Psychology of Infertility & Miscarriage w/ Dr. Molly Burrets

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pursuit of Wellness Episode: The Psychology of Infertility & Miscarriage w/ Dr. Molly Buritz
Release Date: June 30, 2025
Host: Mari Llewellyn
Guest: Dr. Molly Buritz, Licensed Clinical Psychologist and Reproductive Mental Health Expert

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1. Introduction to Dr. Molly Buritz

Mari Llewellyn welcomes Dr. Molly Buritz, highlighting her extensive experience in psychotherapy, research, and teaching. Dr. Buritz is a professor at USC and has personal experience with IVF, pregnancy loss, and secondary infertility, which deeply informs her practice focusing on reproductive mental health.

Notable Quote:
[00:00] Dr. Molly Buritz: "Going through infertility is one of the hardest, most poignant stressors a marriage can face."

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2. Dr. Buritz’s Personal Journey with Infertility

Dr. Buritz shares her personal story, detailing her initial success with late-age pregnancy and subsequent miscarriages. Her experience with tfmr (termination for medical reasons) due to a chromosomal abnormality in her baby profoundly affected her, deepening her understanding and empathy towards her clients.

Notable Quote:
[06:22] Dr. Molly Buritz: "The choice to terminate a pregnancy for a baby that you very much wanted is very traumatizing."

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3. Navigating the IVF Process

Faced with financial constraints and low success rates in the U.S., Dr. Buritz opted to pursue IVF in Tijuana, Mexico, significantly reducing costs. She discusses the logistical and emotional challenges, including lengthy border waits and the intense emotional investment required.

Notable Quote:
[10:35] Dr. Molly Buritz: "IVF is not a cure-all. It's so far from a guarantee. It's not a guarantee."

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4. Emotional and Psychological Impact of Infertility

The discussion delves into how infertility strains relationships, particularly marriages. Dr. Buritz emphasizes the importance of recognizing that infertility affects both partners differently and can lead to feelings of inadequacy and resentment if not properly addressed.

Notable Quote:
[53:05] Dr. Molly Buritz: "Going through infertility is one of the hardest, most poignant stressors a marriage can face."

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5. The Role of Social Media and Community Support

Mari and Dr. Buritz explore the impact of social media on individuals undergoing infertility treatments. They discuss the importance of setting boundaries to protect one’s mental health and the value of connecting with others who share similar experiences through support groups and private channels.

Notable Quote:
[27:25] Dr. Molly Buritz: "A real friend will be there waiting for me when I'm ready again."

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6. Supporting Friends and Loved Ones Through Infertility and Miscarriage

Dr. Buritz provides strategies for supporting friends experiencing infertility or miscarriage. She emphasizes the importance of direct communication, offering practical help without burdening the individual with questions, and creating a supportive environment where emotions can be freely expressed.

Notable Quotes:
[50:46] Dr. Molly Buritz: "Grieve the loss and be compassionate with yourself about, you did the best that you could with the information, resources, and knowledge that you had then."
[51:00] Dr. Molly Buritz: "Be direct and honest with your friends about not knowing what to do and assure them of your availability."

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7. Addressing Competitive Feelings Around Fertility

The conversation touches on the competitive nature that can emerge among women regarding fertility and pregnancies. Dr. Buritz acknowledges this reality and advises setting healthy boundaries to mitigate feelings of inadequacy or competition.

Notable Quote:
[45:50] Mari Llewellyn: "Is that a real thing?"
[45:51] Dr. Molly Buritz: "They do get competitive about who can get pregnant first."

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8. Postpartum Depression and Anxiety

Dr. Buritz addresses the complexities of postpartum mental health, highlighting the importance of having support systems that can reflect and identify changes in behavior. She advocates for regular mental health screenings and the availability of therapy to navigate this challenging period.

Notable Quote:
[64:15] Dr. Molly Buritz: "You need mirrors around you that are paying attention to your well-being and are willing to reflect to you what they see."

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9. Body Image During Pregnancy

The episode explores the shift in body image that occurs during pregnancy. Dr. Buritz shares her transformation from dreading bodily changes to embracing her pregnancy as a source of beauty and strength, encouraging listeners to focus on their body’s incredible capabilities rather than its appearance.

Notable Quote:
[66:09] Dr. Molly Buritz: "I was like, wow, look at what my body's doing. It was more just like I was embodied."

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10. Challenging Stigmas and Misconceptions About Infertility

Dr. Buritz confronts misconceptions that a positive mindset alone can overcome infertility. She emphasizes that infertility is a complex medical and emotional issue, not a reflection of personal inadequacy, and discourages harmful narratives that oversimplify the struggles faced by those undergoing treatment.

Notable Quote:
[34:51] Dr. Molly Buritz: "A positive mindset does not change your body's chemistry."

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11. Healing and Moving Forward

In the concluding sections, Dr. Buritz and Mari discuss the journey towards healing after infertility and miscarriage. They highlight the importance of self-compassion, seeking professional support, and allowing oneself to experience a range of emotions without judgment.

Notable Quote:
[72:05] Dr. Molly Buritz: "You deserve to enjoy having your baby rather than thinking about having a baby."

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Conclusion and Resources

Mari and Dr. Buritz wrap up the conversation by reiterating the significance of understanding, support, and compassionate communication in navigating infertility and miscarriage. Dr. Buritz provides her online resources for further support and guidance.

Notable Quote:
[74:24] Dr. Molly Buritz: "You can find me on Instagram at @DrMollyBurritz and visit my website at www.Dr.MollyBurtz.com for more resources."

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, product promotions, and non-content sections to focus solely on the meaningful discussions between Mari Llewellyn and Dr. Molly Buritz.

Transcript

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Going through infertility is one of the hardest, most poignant stressors a marriage can face.

[Mari Llewellyn]

This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast, and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. Hi, guys. Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Today we have a guest that I am so excited about, Dr. Molly Buritz. She is a licensed clinical psychologist with over 16 years of experience in psychotherapy research, research, and teaching. She is a professor at usc, has an amazing career, and she also went through IVF herself. She experienced pregnancy loss and secondary infertility, and her practice focuses on reproductive mental health. I do just want to give a trigger warning. We will be discussing topics like infertility, miscarriage, loss, and if you're not ready to hear about those topics, I would recommend clicking out, listening to a different episode. As you guys know, I went through my own infertility and IVF journey, and connecting with Molly was really, really important and special to me. I saw a clip of Molly speaking about how to discuss this topic with friends who are going through loss or infertility. And just how eloquent she was speaking about this topic really spoke to me. She actually helped me when I was personally going through my HCG issues at the beginning of my pregnancy, when I thought that I would lose my pregnancy. So she was there for me personally, and I just know how smart and empathetic she is. I know this conversation will be hopefully so impactful for so many of you. I really hope you guys enjoy and find some value from this. And let's talk to Dr. Molly Buritz. Dr. Molly Buritz, welcome to the show.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I am over the moon to have you here. I have been a big fan of yours.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Same.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You were at my house last night. And I think I told you I'm your biggest fan because I saw this clip of yours when I was in the trenches with ivf and you were talking about infertility and basically how to discuss it with friends and how to basically just like, handle that topic. And you were so eloquent. And I sent it to so many people that I know, and ever since then, I'm like, I just love this woman. She gets it. Obviously, you're a clinical psychologist, which is incredible. I mean, congrats. You have a huge career.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Thank you.

[Mari Llewellyn]

But you've also been through infertility, ivf, so many things. I know you talk about relationships in a lot of different topics. I think today we're really going to focus on reproductive grief, loss. So trigger warning for anyone who's maybe not ready to hear those topics. But it is such a big part of my life, and it has been on the show for the last. I mean, I think I've been talking about having a baby for, like, over a year on my show, so I'm really excited to have you here today. I'd love to just start by hearing your personal story with however much you're comfortable to share, because I think it will give good context of your experience.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, boy, you know, my story is a long one, so I'll kind of select the highlights. I was working, so I specialize in my practice in two types of issues. I specialize in couples, and I specialize in women's reproductive health and the mental health challenges that come along with that. And I was doing that before I ever experienced any issues with infertility myself. And it just really pretty shocking how my life sort of transformed to meet my work, where I needed to meet it. And now how I work with women experiencing infertility and going through IVF and other assisted reproductive technologies is so different because I. I know what they're going through. I've experienced it, you know, But I had my first child on the late side. I had him right before my 40th birthday, and it was easy, and it was very little effort. And I know that experience, and I'm grateful to have known that experience. I didn't know at the time how lucky I was and how fortunate I was. And I kind of just assumed, oh, like, I beat the odds. Like, I'm just one of those people that can have kids late in life. And I didn't really worry too much about having a second kid. And, you know, maybe 18, 20 months later, after my son was born, we tried again, and I got pregnant again right away. And again I told myself, wow, I've hit the jackpot. I'm just one of these lucky people. But that pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, and I didn't have a ton of experience or expertise in people who were able to get pregnant but not stay pregnant. More of my practice had focused on people who have difficulty conceiving. Right. And I didn't have difficulty conceiving a second time. Very soon after, we conceived again without much effort. And I thought, okay, so, you know, I had my miscarriage. Odds are that's over now. I'm going to have my baby. And a really, really sad thing happened, which was that I lost that baby in the second trimester. I lost that baby because that baby had a chromosomal Abnormality. So that baby was really sick. And that was, at that time in my life, the hardest thing I had ever gone through. I don't think a lot of the community is familiar with the term tfmr, which means termination for medical reasons. And this is the really heartbreaking experience of finding out that the baby that you have is extremely sick and may not make it to birth. And if they do make it to birth, will have an extremely compromised life of suffering or won't live very long. And so many people make the choice to save their baby from that kind of suffering and terminate the pregnancy for medical reasons. That's called tfmr. And I would say that that's probably the most taboo topic still in infertility.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Really?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Because I had never heard the term, actually. So that makes sense.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And there's a reason why you haven't heard it. Because people don't want to talk about it. Because it feels very shameful. The choice to terminate a pregnancy for a baby that you very much wanted.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Is very traumatizing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I mean, to me, it sounds like pure hell, but I can't imagine. I'm so sorry you went through that. And I can't imagine anything more painful, honestly. I mean, miscarriage in general is just kind of unfathomable. The pain that people experience. And you and I were speaking about this last night. It seems like it's increasing in how common it is, which is crazy. And I'm so glad we're having this conversation, because I think a lot of people don't know how to help their friends or family members who are experiencing this.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. And, you know, going through that with my baby in the second trimester, what I thought to myself was, I can never do that again. I can never go through that experience again. And so I went through ivf, not because I couldn't conceive, but because I wanted to have the process of testing my embryos to determine if there were any genetic abnormalities before becoming pregnant with them.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And, you know, I'm so glad I did, because I'm so glad I did do it. I'm so glad I was able to make it happen. And it requires a lot of resources and privilege, which is a whole other thing that I can get on my high horse about. I retrieved, overall 40 eggs, and two of them were genetically normal. So my first one, the first transfer that I did, resulted in a chemical pregnancy, which was devastating. Cause I knew I had one chance left, you know, and that's why I felt for you. So one of the Reasons I felt for you so much when you were going through your transfer, and all the uncertainty is. Cause I watched that line on the stick get lighter and lighter and lighter, and it was like being given something and having it taken away was horrible. Brutal, you know?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Brutal.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I know you know what that feels like because you were in that space.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. And for context, guys, Dr. Molly helped me during that time. I reached out and we had a phone call, and it was really, really helpful to me during that time. And I felt like you got it.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, I felt like I got it because I. I have been there, and I just think you're such a special person. And I was really honored that I even got to play a little role in it, you know? So I was in this position where I was left with one embryo, and that was sort of. You know, my. My husband calls it a Hail Mary, which apparently is a football term. Whatever is it really? It's like when the clock is running out, you have nothing left, and you throw the ball all the way from one end of the field to the other end of the field, hoping for a touchdown. Cause it's your last thing. It's the only thing left. So she was our Hail Mary. And I knew it was a girl. And I waited a long time to do the transfer because I didn't want it to be over. And I knew that if it didn't work for me, it would be over. Yeah, I wasn't going to do anything more. I was so cashed and out of bandwidth, I wasn't going to consider donor egg. Like, I just couldn't do it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

How long at this point had you been on injections?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

On and off for two years, which is insane.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I mean, anyone who's done IVF knows it's really intense. And you're just getting kind of thrown around by these hormones, and they have a massive impact on your body.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, it ran my life. Yeah, it ran my life. And on top of it. I know this is going to sound so wild. I was commuting to Mexico to do the ivf.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Can you tell us more about that? Cause I've heard you mention that. What did that look like?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. So I did a round in Los Angeles, and it was pretty dismal. I got very few eggs. I did the retrieval. In the retrieval, none of the eggs that I got actually made it to the blast embryo stage. So it was like $25,000 to me, completely thrown down the drain. And the doctor was basically like, I mean, it's stats, and this is your Age. And, you know, overall, even if you really see this through and do multiple rounds, like I ran the data analytics and you probably have an 8% chance of being successful through IVF.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And that's another thing I want people to know is like, IVF is not a cure all. It's not like if you're not having kids now, you can be like, oh, I'll just do IVF later. It is so far from a guarantee. It's not a guarantee. And, you know, for many people. It does not work for many people. So it's, you know, that's just, I think a misconception is that IVF is the insurance policy and as long as you have that, you'll be okay. And that's just not true.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So valid. And it's very anxiety provoking. I think people, I could even tell by the way people would talk to me when I was doing it that they thought that it was a sure bet. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't know. It's not, it's not. Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So I was like, man, like I'm looking at my son and trying to save for him to be able to go to college. And you know, the way I grew up was very financially unstable. And I'm just like looking at the big picture and I'm like, I have some really hard choices to make here because I don't know how many times this is going to take. She's telling me like, I might have to do this, like seven, eight, nine times. I'm looking at the money and I'm like, I cannot do this. And it just felt like throwing money away, you know? And I started doing some research online and I found out about this doctor in Tijuana, which is about a two and a half hour drive from my house when there's no traffic.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's actually not bad.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, it wasn't bad.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's not great.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

But getting there wasn't the problem. It was getting back across the border and waiting at border control that was really, really hard. My longest wait was 14 hours.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh my God.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And you know how many appointments IVF takes?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, you're there every other day sometimes. So you're sitting at the border for 14 hours.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That was my longest one. Interestingly, our very last trip, usually I would go alone, but on my transfer days, my husband came with me. And on the very last transfer, when we transferred my daughter Aurora, we waited at the border for 14 hours to get back home. 14 hours. No place to pee, no place to get anything. To eat, just waiting. And you have no idea. It's gonna be 14 hours. You don't go into it knowing, okay, it's 14 hours. You just are waiting and waiting and waiting and you don't know what's gonna happen.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And this is a much more cost effective route.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, So I could do four rounds in Mexico for the cost of doing one round in the States.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So it's a quarter of the cost. Even more than that. There are two reasons why I did it. The first, what got me looking was, but then I found a doctor down there. She's a female doctor named Dr. Isabella Martinez. And she is like a very young, cutting edge, very involved in research and international research presentation. She knows what's up and her attitude. You know, she told me, I asked her, like, who's the oldest woman like you've ever been successful with? I think when I started, I was 43. And she said, 41, but you're gonna be my first 43 year old. And like, so her positive mindset, I was like, okay, this person believes that I can do this and I'm gonna do it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So great to have someone in your corner like that. Seriously. Cause it can be really hard to pick up the encouragement when you're going through so much.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And she wasn't. She didn't lie to me. She said, yeah, those stats, 8%, yeah, that probably is about right. But there's no reason why you can't be one of the eight out of a hundred. And let's go for it, Molly. And the other thing is, she was able to use medications with me that are not FDA approved in the US And I took that risk and I did it. When I followed her protocol, the number of eggs I got like tripled.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow, that's amazing. Oh, my God. I want to know more about that medication. Is that now FDA approved here?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

No.

[Mari Llewellyn]

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[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's insane.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I knew people who got part time jobs at Starbucks or Amazon so that they could get IVF covered through their benefits.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So these were women who were like literally going to work from 9 to 5 at their real job and then going to work at Amazon lifting boxes in a warehouse for four hours, five days a week just so that they could get IVF benefits.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's incredible.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And can you imagine going through IVF and having to do physical labor while you're like, it's just wild. It's wild.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So your transfer worked?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, my transfer worked. Our Hail Mary is my daughter Aurora, who is almost 2 years old. And she's the best.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. You know, I'm gonna cry. I'm so happy for you. The fact that you're on the other side with two kids is really encouraging for me and I'm sure for so many people listening. And I'm just like, in awe that you pushed that hard to get to where you are now.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It was really, really hard. Like, it nearly destroyed me, like, going to Mexico, you remember, I'm still taking care of another kid, you know, and was talking to him about it and, you know, mommy's going to the doctor in Mexico. Sometimes I would spend the night at like a cheap motel near the border. I mean, I look back at what I did, I'm like, the love of a mother, man. We can do anything. Motivated by that feeling. You know, I don't speak Spanish and so I didn't understand the parking signs and apparently I parked illegally and my car got booted in Tijuana and I was by myself in Tijuana with a boot on my car and I had to figure out what to do, do to get home. And like, I look back at what I did for my daughter and like, it's just like, wow, you can't believe your own strength sometimes. You know what I mean?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Do you think you'll ever tell her?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, yeah. Well, what I did was I kept a little. I have a little private Instagram page that tracks my IVF process from beginning to end. That, like, I mean, literally has like, 30 followers or something like that. So someday, when she's old enough, I'll show her.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, my gosh. That's so special that you have that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think I heard you on another interview say that was how you kept everyone in your life updated. Because when you're going through IVF or infertility, you get a lot of questions.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes. And there is a lot of updates, like, as you know, like, every three days. Did it make it to blast? Did this happen? You know, it's like there's constant waiting and then news waiting and then news. And I just did not have the capacity to tell everyone all the time to answer all the texts. So I created a little Instagram page. I only invited people that I wanted to know everything going on. And I just said, guys, please don't text me and ask me what's going on. If there's news, it will be on my page.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Such a great idea. I wish I did that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And then I didn't have to tell everyone. And then when it didn't work, I didn't have to tell 30 people.

[Mari Llewellyn]

What I mean, such a good method. I feel like the. It all comes from a good place, the question.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

But it's overwhelming.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, it can be really overwhelming. And if you forget to tell someone something, then they're offended and that becomes a whole other thing. And you're already going through so much on your own. I'm kind of an chronic oversharer, which is why I have the career that I have.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I love that for you, but I.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Know a lot of girls don't even share the transfer day.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Which I is. Think smart.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I did.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Not publicly, because otherwise it just is an immense amount of pressure.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I can't. I can't even imagine being in your position with, like, literally millions of people thinking of you on your transfer day. And, like, that's just too much.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, no, I didn't share that, but I had people thinking I was pregnant before I was actually pregnant. And that is weird.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I saw some posts, actually. When you went to Nyar E. Yeah. People were posting, oh, she's so pregnant. She's definitely pregnant. And I'm like, that's so insensitive.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I know. No, it's wild.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I. I know it's coming from a place of wanting you to be pregnant. It's like coming from a good place.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I know. I'm luckily, like, weirdly dissociated from my comment section because I guess because I've been doing this for so long I don't really let it sink in.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It was more like, in real life, things that would get to me. And I think there's also, like, a really big. Not. Not that people who don't go through IVF should know, but there's a big lack of education around IVF to people who don't do it.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

100, right? Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Like, the questions I would get were, so, also, calling embryos eggs. That was a big one.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Do you get that a lot?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Totally. The other one is, when are they gonna impregnate you? I'm like, okay, it's a transfer. They're gonna transfer the embryo into my uterus. Like, are you getting impregnated this week? Can we please stop saying that word?

[Mari Llewellyn]

And they always think you're gonna put two.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's my biggest thing. They're like, you putting. How many are you gonna put?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And I'm like, just one, babe.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Just one.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You're like, no, that's. I. If people aren't doing genetic testing on their eggs, sometimes they're putting in more than one. But if you're doing genetic testing, you're just putting in one also.

[Mari Llewellyn]

As if, like, we all have, like, 10 to work with. You know what I mean?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Right. Right. You only have dozens of eggs. I mean, that would be coming in a carton.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That would be amazing. But, like, most of us just have, like, three. Two, three if we're lucky. So. Yeah. That's a funny question. Yeah. Out of curiosity, during your losses, your struggles, did you have a resource to turn to? Because I know now you help so many people, but back then, what did you do to deal?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, that question makes me sad because. Makes me think in a way that I hadn't before, that there was a way in which I was very alone in all of it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, I was very resourceful, and I always have been my whole life. I know how to get my needs met. I know how to take something small and turn it into what I need, you know? And the Internet was very helpful with that. I found the clinic in Tijuana through a Facebook group.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, those Facebook groups are amazing.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes. So honestly, some of the best support that I got, because I actually. Obviously, I can't talk to my clients and get support from them. I didn't know a lot of people in real life who had gone through this.

[Mari Llewellyn]

They just didn't say, that's right.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Exactly. So I didn't have a lot. And the people who are who were in these groups, these support groups on Facebook Honestly, they were the ones that I got the most information from.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yep.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

But I was doing a lot of, like, figuring it out on my own, you know?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. I think it's interesting now thinking about going through IVF and coping mechanisms, you kind of, like, I definitely followed a lot of people who were going through IVF and wanted to see that. But I feel like social media can also be really tough when you're struggling because it feels like, is everyone in the world pregnant except me?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Like, that's a big feeling. I'm curious your opinion. Like, what would you recommend to someone who's really struggling and maybe everyone. It feels like everyone around them is pregnant. Let's talk about, like, in real life and on social media.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, I. So I think boundaries are extremely important, and you're allowed to change your boundaries as frequently and as. As often as you want. So if it feels good to connect with people who are going through what you're going through, or it feels good to connect with someone who's pregnant because they make you feel like, okay, if that happened for her, it's possible for me too, then enrich that relationship, you know, and stay engaged. But if it starts to feel bad, you can take a step back. And I think you really have to pay attention to yourself and what you're feeling and let yourself respond accordingly. If you pay attention, you will know how you feel. And if you know how you feel, it is your job to then act accordingly. So if you're hanging out with a friend who, you know, it makes you feel bad, you know that it is your job then to have a boundary and maybe say, I love you so much. I'm so happy for your success. It's hard for me to be around it right now because it just brings up so much sadness in me. I'm happy for you, but I'm already dealing with so much that I. I just need to take a temporary step back and take care of myself. And I so hope that you will be there waiting for me when I'm ready again.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Because a real friend will.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes. Thousand percent. A thousand question. Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

A real friend will.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Someone who is not a real friend will be like, well, she can't even be happy for me. And, you know, that's going to tell you a lot about that person's role in your life.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So true. So telling. And now being on the other side.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And where you're the pregnant one.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Where I'm the pregnant one. If I had a friend that was struggling and they said to me, what you what you just said, I need to take a step back. I'd be glad that they said that instead of just like avoiding me or dodging the topic. Like, I would rather have that direct communication and I would actually. Personal experience. And I know my friend might be listening. When I was really struggling, it was hard. I. I swear when I had my egg retrieval experience and it was really bad at that time, one of Greg's best friend's wives got pregnant. His sister got pregnant. Our next door neighbor got pregnant. It felt like every single one of my closest friends was pregnant. And I felt like I was drowning. And one of my friends was updating me on a lot and I ended up sending her a message where I was like, I kind of. I don't know if I said it as eloquently as you did, but I set a boundary, which for me is really hard. I'm such a people. Please.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Boundaries are so hard.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Really hard. But I remember typing it out and I was like, I am so happy for you. And normal. I said normal. Mari would be asking you so many questions and would be so interested in everything you have to say, but right now I'm kind of in the depths of what I'm going through and it's just really hard for me to hear. I can't wait to be there with you and be excited with you, but right now I just can't. And she was so understanding and, like, called me right away and was like, oh, my God. And she's also gotten pregnant naturally twice now and hasn't been through this.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

But she was so understanding and I just want to share that, like, personal experience with people if they're nervous, because I so get that feeling. But it is worth it to protect your own energy because otherwise you're just daily, like, dealing with this heaviness, you know?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes. The mute button exists for a reason, babies, you know, and. Yeah, use it. Yes, use it. Mute me generously, please mute me if.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I am annoying you. Like, that's. That's something. Now being pregnant too, I'm like, is my content too pregnant forward? Because I keep thinking about old me and people going through it still.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You're sharing your life, Mari. You're authentically sharing your life. That is what has drawn people to you from the get go. I don't know if you know this, but I started following you like 10 years ago.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I didn't know that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, my God.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I was doing at the time, it was called bbg.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And I started following you and you were such an inspiration to me just because you shared the real you. And I was like, if she can do it, I can do it. You know, so I've been a fan of you for so long.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's crazy.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I have the chills.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's so wild.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I mean, it's crazy to me that, like, I'm sitting with you because I've known you for so long.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think we were meant to meet.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes, absolutely. But you, you have gotten the level of success that you've gotten by being your authentic self. And you need to keep being that. And people will take care of themselves.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

They can leave the space if they need to and come back if they want to.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's up to them.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You just keep doing you because, you know, your. Your life is changing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So your brand and your work and what you talk about is going to change.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. And it does just. It is my whole world right now. I've waited such a long time for this and it is like, I'm so excited about it, obviously.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And you should be.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Thank you. And I love the advice of muting. Like, I muted a lot of people when I was strugg and unfollow if you need to. No one's going to be upset. No one's even going to notice.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Like, make your algorithm what you need it. Yes. To be.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think that's such good advice because otherwise it feels like you're drowning every day.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Join the Facebook groups.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know, I think also, like, meeting people who have also been through it is so helpful. I know that can be tough because not everyone's so open about it.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You and I spoke about this briefly. There was a viral podcast clip of a very well known podcaster discussing infertility.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And she basically suggested that the topic of infertility and miscarriage is almost too spoken about. Like it's being shoved down everyone's throat, quote, unquote. And that it's scaring younger girls. And we need to be talking more about natural pregnancies and positive experiences. And the IVF community was and is up in arms about it. I was very upset about it myself. What is your take on that? Like, what would you say to someone who thinks that I would start from.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

A place of grace? Because I'm sure there have been times in my life. I know there have been times in my life when I didn't know what I didn't know. And I probably said some things that were, at minimum, insensitive and at worst, very harmful. And I think this is an example of that. When you don't know what you don't know and you haven't had an experience, but then you speak on that experience, it is the least insensitive and at most, very harmful. And I think, from what I have seen online, that it has been very harmful to people who are already going through the most suffering of their lives. There's not too much information out there. It's wonderful that there's a renaissance and that we are finally, just for the first time, starting to get information from women to women. So if it feels like it's burgeoning, it is. And that's wonderful because we have been waiting so long to stop being in the dark about this. So if it's not your struggle, I can really, with grace, understand how it seems like, oh, my gosh, people are talking about this everywhere, shoving it down. Well, people are talking about it because so many people need it. And just thank your lucky stars that you don't just hold that gratitude and keep it moving. If it's not your pain, I don't think it's helpful to comment on other people's pain. And I think it's really important that women be educated about their reproductive health across all domains, whether that's natural family planning or assisted reproductive technologies. There's lots of ways to get pregnant, and there's lots of ways to have babies, and you can have babies without getting pregnant. So I just want there to be room for all of it. It's not a competition. And I want us to be sensitive to the pain and struggle that people are going through, because I can promise you this, we are not going through all of this just because we don't have a positive mindset.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Thank you.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I didn't spend my life commuting to Tijuana, Mexico, and shooting myself up with drugs and going through the heartbreak and pain of waiting, loss, and disappointment just because I wasn't thinking positive enough. And, hey, I'm a psychologist, so I understand, appreciate, and respect the value of a positive mindset. It's something I'm working on all the time and teaching my clients. And so it's not. Not all or nothing. A positive mindset is super important. But a positive mindset does not change your body's chemistry. And I think at the heart of every woman who's experiencing infertility, maybe this is too generalized. But I feel like every single one of us, there's a voice in us somewhere that says, what did I do wrong? Or I'm doing something wrong or like what's wrong with me. And I think it's, it's, it's different for everyone. But I think that that's like a core experience Y and so we don't need other people who aren't suffering through this also telling us there's something wrong with you. And if you would just think positively, you would be through this.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So I honestly, I would love to speak to that woman from a place of just like grace and compassion and, and see if there could be a conversation just to have a little bit more perspective.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that was so well said. And you summed up how I feel as well. And I think how so many women feel. I think, yeah, a lot of us feel like we are broken and it takes a lot of work to get out of that mindset. So we definitely don't need very impactful people on the Internet kind of adding to this conversation. And also I think when you're going through infertility, it does. Positive experiences are everywhere.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Like I felt that way.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I was going, people are getting pregnant everywhere.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Everywhere. That's all we see everywhere. And I, I so tried my best to celebrate everyone, but it is so hard.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So really well said. You guys have heard me speak about Maui Nui before. It is the only 100 wild harvested meat that is is completely stress free and responsibly sourced. This really is such a fantastic way to get your protein in. Greg and I are obsessed. Our freezer is stacked with Maui Nui. The animals that they harvest are 100 wild, free to roam and choose their own diet. But they're also destructive to the population. They help balance the axis deer population by being the only operation to wild harvest these animals. I love partnering with Maui Nui because I feel really good about recommending it to you guys. It's the healthiest red meat you will ever eat. It's 100 wild harvest and stress free. It's the highest quality protein with the least amount of calories, up to 53 more protein per calorie than grass fed beef. Their sugar free pepper stick packs are 10 grams of protein and just 55 calories. Perfect snack to throw in your bag on the go. I'm personally obsessed with snacks right now. I have to bring them everywhere I go and I feel really good about eating this. They are loaded with essential nutrients, vitamins and healthy fats. The taste is also incredible. I know at first I was nervous about eating deer, but honestly I didn't even notice. It's incredible. Incredibly clean tasting and not gamey at all. From their snack sticks to fresh cuts, bone broth to breakfast links, every bite is delicious. It's delivered directly to your door. A great snack for on the go and great to stay fueled pre or post workout. Also recommend bringing these with you when you travel. Great way to stay on top of your nutrition. They are trusted and loved by Dr. Andrew Huberman, Tim Ferriss, Dr. Peter is here and Gabby Reese Maui Nui offers the only 100 wild harvested meat that's completely stress free and responsibly sourced. It's perfect for anyone looking to elevate their meals with delicious, high quality protein. Maui Nui Venison is offering Pursuit listeners a limited collection of my favorite cuts and products, but suppliers are limited by the nature of their work so don't wait. Head to maui nuivenison.com pow to secure your access. Now that's Maui Nuivenison M A U I N U I venison.com Pal you guys know by now my absolute favorite non toxic cookware is caraway. And did you know that the average American spends over $3,000 a year on dining out? I personally think cooking at home is so fun, so intimate and caraway makes it so easy and so worth the investment for you and your family. Having gorgeous cookware on my stove has really encouraged me to cook more at home and especially being pregnant. Now I prefer staying in. I like eating early on my own terms and making food that I'm really really craving. That night. Greg and I really enjoy using our caraway cookware. 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This deal is exclusive for our listeners, so visit CarawayHome.com Mari10 or use code Mari10 at checkout. Caraway Non Toxic Cookware Made Modern. You guys know that Greg and I are obsessed with our eight Sleep. We use it every single night. Greg especially has his temperature dialed in to science. He uses it to wake up. He uses it to go to bed. The POD is a high tech mattress cover that you can easily add to your existing mattress to help you sleep better. You don't need to change your mattress or bed frame to get the pod. Think of it as a fitted sheet that can be added to any mattress. The POD uses AI and machine learning to learn your sleep patterns over time and use this data to automatically adjust the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to what your body needs. Needs. Instead of just giving you some stats, it understands them and does something about it. There's no other product on the market that does so. Your bed literally gets smarter over time. 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Head over to 8sleep.com po and use code POW to get $350 off Pod4Ultra and start experiencing the benefits of Autopilot today. You get 30 days to try it at home and return it if you don't like it. But I am confident you will keep it. Another question I have and a lot of my friends actually wanted me to ask you this. Okay. Yeah. The girls chimed in. I'm 31.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Okay.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And a lot of my girlfriends and a lot of people listening. They're women. They're in the same age range as me. It's a big topic of conversation. Talking about conceiving babies. Everyone's kind of thinking about it, or they're on their journey, or maybe they've already suffered a loss. What is the etiquette around talking about it with your girlfriends? Like, should it be spoken about? Is it not appropriate? How do you delicately talk about it? Like, how do you know?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Like, having babies in general, conception and planning and all of that. Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Like, someone in the group's really excited because they're trying to conceive, but maybe someone else has had a loss and they don't want to hear about it. Like, how do you balance that?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Have a direct conversation in the group about, hey, guys, how do we want to manage this?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Ooh, a meeting, a conference of sorts.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, gosh, I don't know if your life is like mine, but my friends are my soulmates, and I just need them so much. And you don't have to figure out. You don't have to be a mind reader and figure out on your own how you should be with your friends. You can just ask each other. You know, guys, you're going through this. You're going through this. I'm going through this. What are the ground rules? How do we want to respect each other around this? How can we make this, like, a really supportive environment? What do we need? I'll go first. Here's what I need.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. Oh, I love that approach.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I'm a big, like, if. So if I think someone's mad at me, I'm like, are you mad at me? Like, what did I do wrong? Let me fix it. Yeah, I love that approach. I almost feel like everyone's different, too. Like, I am, again, a chronic oversharer. And when I was going through ivf, I was super duper open about it and talked about it a lot with my friends and answered every question, because I just. I don't really mind, but I have some friends who are a lot more. More private with it. So it's almost like everyone has different boundaries when it comes to that topic.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Yeah. And that. I think that conversation creates space for people to have different boundaries.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It creates space for someone to say, like, for me, I just. I don't want to share as much. Like, I'm totally open to hearing everything that you have to say, but I probably won't share as much. I'm just not quite as comfortable.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Period. Or, you know, this whole thing is hard for me to talk about. I totally want you guys to be able to support each other. I just put it on a different thread because I Just can't right now.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. I think that's great. And I wonder if a lot of people experience this honestly. Also, this might sound like a crazy question. Do you ever find that women. Okay. Like, groups of women. I wonder if social media adds to this, too. Like, get competitive with who can get pregnant first. Do you know what I mean?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Is that a real thing?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It's a real thing. It's not a crazy question. They do get competitive about who can get pregnant first. And let me tell you what's going to happen for you in a couple of years, Mari.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, God.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Then they're going to get competitive about who could have the next baby and who's going to have more babies.

[Mari Llewellyn]

No, I can't.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I know. I know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It took me so long to get here.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I know. I know. It's like a really good, real thing. I just. There's something so deep within us that our value is so tied to reproduction.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And fertility. It's just like we can't help ourselves.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I know. It feels like it's instinctual.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And I never felt competitive with my journey, I think, because maybe I was the one of the first of my friends to, like, start trying.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And. Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Then I was going through. I just always felt like I was in my own zone. But now I'm just noticing the older I get, the more girls are talking about it, and it feels like there's this underlying current of, well, who's going to get pregnant first?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes. Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

My experience was after. So after I had my son and I, I developed a whole new group of friends, my mommy friends, you know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Does that happen?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You got to have friends that have kids. And it's especially helpful if you have friends that have kids that are the same age as your kids. It's a very important.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Nice.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And I'm really lucky because my mommy friends are my real friends. Like, I would be friends with them even if they didn't have kids. The ages. My kids. Cause it's a true friendship. I really love them. Shout out to Katie. Love you, girl.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Katie. I hope Katie's listening. Bye.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

What happened for me was my mommy friends then started having their second kid and sometimes even their third kid while I was going through ivf. And, like, you know, I would just see my kids, my friends, having more and more kids, and it was like. It was so hard.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And there was this weird thing that happened for me where I felt like I wasn't a real mom. If I only had one kid.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Can you believe this?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It still shocks me to this day, but I really felt that, like, I'm not a. I'm not like, a real mom. Like, real moms have more than one kid. And I'm like, where did I learn that from? That's so weird.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I can so imagine it. Obviously, I don't know what it feels like, but I can imagine that feeling.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. I felt like an imposter.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I'm like, oh, I just have one kid. I'm not a real mom. And, like, it's just not. Now I can look back and I'm like, it's just not true. Like, I was a mom from the moment he was in my womb.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. And I. It does kind of feel. I've, like, started to. I have some mum friends and, like, listening to the way they talk and just seeing how things go. So is it almost like the more kids, the better? Like, is that sort of the. I can't even imagine the headspace I'm gonna feel like.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And I also. I'm kind of rambling a little bit, but after going through this for so long and just thinking about it for so long, I can imagine that once I have a baby, I would like to wait a year plus, because I just don't want to really think about it anymore.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know what I mean?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You want to be free.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You want to have peace. My gosh.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And you deserve it. Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And enjoy it.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You deserve to just enjoy having a baby rather than thinking about having a baby.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You deserve to enjoy having your baby, Mari.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And let me tell you, as someone who has a big age gap, you know, and it wasn't intact, I didn't want to have a big age gap, but I have one, like a five year age gap. There was something really, really special about having all that time with my son. Just the. The three of us, me and my son and my husband. Still, I would go back and change it. I would not want to have had to go through ivf. Like, don't get me wrong, I would never choose that. But you do try to see the good. And for me, part of the good was I had a lot of uninterrupted time with my son. And now I know what it's like to have two kids. And it's a lot. And it's a big juggle. And you don't get as much individual time with your second child as you do your first because you're having to take care of two of them. So I just want you to, like, revel in being a mom.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And enjoy having your baby.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And you'll know when the time is right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. For sure.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I feel like you can trust your intuition, Mari.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think so, too. I feel good about it. I feel like actually being pregnant, I feel much more sure of my decisions than I ever have. Like, decisive.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's wonderful.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Which is a good feeling. I used to struggle with that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

What would you recommend of how to help someone going through a loss? Like, let's say we have a friend. Because it's really difficult to put yourself in their shoes unless you go through it yourself. And I haven't even been through a loss. I obviously went through the HCG issue where they basically told me I was losing the baby, but I never did. So how can I or other people help their friends going through miscarriage, especially if you're pregnant?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Also, I think that you be direct and honest with your friends about not knowing what to do and not knowing what they need, and then assure them of your availability.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yep.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So that might sound something like this. I know that there is no way that I can possibly empathize with what you're experiencing right now. I don't know what it's like, and I can only imagine how hard it is, but I will never know. And I don't know what to say and I don't know what to do that would be helpful. But I want you to know that if there were something I could say or do, I would do it in a heartbeat. And if you have feedback for me about what I can do, I want to hear it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Amazing.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's one approach.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Another approach you can take is you can just start doing things that are of service. So instead of asking someone, what can I do to help? That is a burden for the person. Cause then they're like, oh, they gotta think of what you could. You know what I mean? Just go ahead and do it. You know, drop off, you know, a big, you know, tinfoil thing of spaghetti and meatballs at the doorstep and say, text and say, hey. Spaghetti and meatballs on your doorstep.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, like, pick things that, like, everybody wants and needs and loves. Who doesn't love spaghetti and meatballs, you know? Or, like, you know, just send over a gift certificate for a laundry service or for a house cleaning service. You know, just do something and be, like, thinking of you. I know it's a really hard time and let that just do it. Don't ask them necessarily. What they need.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, because then that becomes a burden for them to think about and tell you how you can be helpful. Totally think about yourself and what would be helpful to you if you were going to. Through a hard time.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And then give it to them.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I love that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think that's fantastic.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And don't get so hung up on the details. You don't have to get the perfect gift. You don't have to find the perfect flowers. Just like, do something.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, do something. I love that. I think that's great. Okay. I. I saw some questions from the community about this, actually, for someone who's going through maybe a relationship or marriage strain due to infertility.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Do you have any recommendations there?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Okay. Yes. The very first thing is for people to know that going through infertility is one of the hardest, most poignant stressors a marriage can face.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Okay. So baseline, what I want you to know, if you're out there and you are having a hard time in your marriage because of infertility, that is to be expected. It's really hard for. For me to imagine how a couple could go through infertility and IVF without having the stress impact the relationship.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, you're not at your best. You're constantly waiting on answers that are life changing. You are so out of control. Any illusion of control that you thought that you had is totally gone. Right. And on top of it, there's this weird thing of, like, now we have to time our sex at this time. And sex goes from hopefully being something that was enjoyable and organic to like, this very high stakes endeavor.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, it's stressful.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It's stressful. It takes something that the purpose of it is supposed to be connecting and fun and turns it into this high stakes endeavor that is very stressful. So a lot of couples lose that way that they used to feel connected. Right. It takes something that used to be fun and is now not fun anymore. So I guess where the baseline that I want to start from is, you're not alone. Every couple going through this is having impacts on their relationship. You might not see it from the outside, but it's happening. The other piece is that, look, when you're going through infertility, if the infertility is due to a female factor. Right. Sometimes infertility is due to a male factor. We're talking to a lot of women right now. If it's due to a female factor, what's happening for your. If you have a male partner is probably that he's Feeling a lot of the same losses that you are feeling, except he's not the one going through them. So it's like he doesn't have. I know my husband felt like the things we're going through are so hard, but it's worse for you. And so I have to be the strong one. I can't really have my feelings about it because. Yeah, I'm going through it too, but it's worse for you. And I think for my husband, over time, two years, that really takes a toll of always having to center your partner in their experience and kind of swallow your own experience to be the strong one.

[Mari Llewellyn]

For sure.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That really can, can really chip away at someone. So I really recommend that men try to find like groups, support groups, people that they can talk to what they're going through because their experience is not centered in all of this. And then it becomes really, really hard to show up in the relationship.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So people don't think enough about how this impacts men, you know, and it's very real true.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And it can be easy to like, like slip into a little bit of a resentment.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Feeling which feels horrible. Like you don't want to do that. But when you're trying to figure out what's wrong or why it's not working.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

The worst thing you could do is turn on each other.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know, but sometimes it happens because you're just so frustrated and confused.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. And there's, there's so many ways that the stress can show up in your marriage. I'll. I'll share with you something that happened for us just to kind of give a hint of. There's so many different ways that your marriage can be impacted based on your circumstances. So I am seven years older than my husband and my infertility or my difficulty maintaining a pregnancy was due to age related factors. And it was the first time in our relationship that I really ever thought about our age difference. Cause it never mattered before. It was the first time that I started feeling like, man, I'm a liability. And it made me feel bad about myself and it made me have these like, you know, I would tell myself these lies in my head, like, you know, he could do better. He wouldn't have to be going through all this if he had just married someone his age or younger. My husband could be with a 30 year old right now, you know, and it really started the cycle of lies of like, I'm not good enough. And that can that really, if you let that go and you let that Spiral that can really infiltrate a relationship for sure. So we really had to, like, deal with that, like, head on. And he was able to, like, until I told him this is where my mind is going, he didn't know to tell me, I would choose you a hundred times out of a hundred. If I could be with a 30 year old, I would never want that, you know, but he had to know what I was thinking. I had to be vulnerable and admit that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

In order for him to give me what I need, which is Molly, I would take you a hundred times out of a hundred. I wouldn't want an easier journey with a younger person, you know, and that's how it was solved. But it was really scary for me to say that to him.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Because.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. You have these thoughts where you're like, I can never say that out loud. This is like my deepest vulnerability. But facing it head on is kind of. Of usually the only way. Or I'm having these thoughts and feeling like this, what should we do about it? And kind of becoming a team. Yes. Of like, we're going through this together.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I like that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. And I know Greg was very involved and I. I love that for you. I think there's another presentation where the woman's just kind of taking it all on herself and the guy's like, well, I can't do anything about this. So. And that's a very isolating experience for both people.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

So you have to find ways to connect over it, but you also have to have boundaries that allow you to have a relationship outside of infertility and ivf. Not every conversation can be about that. You have to find ways to say, you know what, we're out to dinner. We're not going to talk about that tonight. There is more to life than our struggle having a baby 100%. And find each other in that again.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. Such great advice. Yeah. No, you're right. Greg was very involved, and I'm so lucky that he was. And even now, like, Friday is my day that I hit the next week. So I'm 16 weeks today, and every time I get to see that new fruit on my app, I run to him because we have so much fun seeing what fruit it is.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

What's the fruit?

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's an avocado.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, my God. Grapefruit. Yes, grapefruit.

[Mari Llewellyn]

But it's just so sweet having these moments with him now because we've been through so much the past couple years together, and I just see the look on his face when I get to tell him this new fruit and it's so silly and whatever, but like it is so special at the same time. Like I just see we're just so grateful to be where we are and we get to do it together, you know? You guys know I absolutely love Clear Stem. I've been using it for a long time now and I personally love it because it is the first clinically effective skincare wellness routine formulated with zero pore clogging ingredients ever. So if you've ever dealt with breakouts like me, I had acne for 10 years. You know that typical acne products dry and damage the skin while traditional anti aging products can clog your pores. I love that Clear Stem combines the two and it's an all in one approach addressing both acne and aging without compromising your holistic health. I personally love the cleanser. I use the gentle cleanser. I also love the body lotion and I use the the lips and cutes balm on my lips every single day. I love the founders. It was founded in 2017 by two women, Danielle and Kaylee, who both struggled with debilitating acne. And as someone who's been through acne, I tend to only trust people who have also had acne when it comes to my skin. So I feel really good about that. They offer a comprehensive skincare wellness system focusing on clinically effective topical products and they also focus on inner wellness. At the same time, they have a revolutionary acne lab test so you can get individualized support from a nutritional therapy practitioner to analyze your blood work, identify your underlying acne triggers and implement personalized lifestyle centric solutions to clear your skin from within, discover the Clear stem difference and experience clear, healthy skin for life. Go to clear stem.compal for 20% off your first order, that is C L A R S.com pow I recently took out my extensions and I am on a journey of growing my hair. And while I'm pregnant, I'm definitely focusing on using good products and also using silk pillowcases. I'm absolutely obsessed with my Blissey pillowcase. I didn't know sooner, but satin is so bad for you and Blissey's silk is an incredible game changer. A lot of dermatologists will tell you it's a skin care secret. It really helps with fine lines and healthier hair. Hair. I have seen such a difference with using my silk pillowcase. I wake up and my hair is less frizzy, more smooth and looks the way it looked when I styled it. I have noticed healthier hair and healthier skin. It has anti aging properties. It's dermatologist tested and recommended. Clinically proven to not clog pores. I struggled with acne for so long, that's the last thing I want to be doing. It's also naturally cooling and breathable, so no more sweaty nights. It's also easy to care for and machine washable. I am obsessed with my Blissy pillowcase. I need it to be on my bed at all times. Because you're a listener, Blissey is offering 60 nights risk free, plus an additional 30 off when you shop at Blissey.com PowerPod that is B-L-I-S-S-Y.com PowerPod P-O-W-P-O-D and use code POW POD to get an additional 30 off your skin and hair. Will thank you.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay? Let's ask a couple more community questions because the girls had questions and they're good.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Okay.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Can you provide insight on postpartum depression or anxiety?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, wow.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Okay. Here's why it's so complicated. Because when you are in that space, you don't know that you're in that space.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

This is why it is so important to have people around you that can be a mirror for you and reflect back to you what they see. So somebody who can say to you, mari, I love you so much. I know you. How you're showing up right now, it's different. And I think that I'm seeing something in you that isn't consistent with how you normally are. And I really, really, really want you to feel well. And I think you might not be seeing, like, what we're seeing, you know, so you need mirrors around you that are paying attention to your well being and are willing to reflect to you what they see.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And then, you know, there are these guidelines that it's like, you know, if you're depressed for six weeks, that's called the baby blues. But if it goes beyond six weeks, that's depression. I don't know, man. Like, having a baby is the single most transformative experience of your life ever. It's gonna take some time to adjust, and your hormones are on a roller coaster. So I just say, like, give yourself time, but you also don't have to be in it completely by yourself. You don't just have to be on the roller coaster with absolutely no agency. You know, be talking to your doctor about how you feel. Every time you go into the doctor, they should be giving you a mental health screener that asks you how often you're having difficult feelings.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And they'll count up your score and they'll tell you if it reaches a level that is something where you might want to consider a different type of intervention, like an SSRI or something. Thing. But I'm, of course, totally biased. I'm a big fan of therapy. And if you can set yourself up to have a therapist with you as you go through this transition, that will be another mirror for you. Someone who can say, here's what I see in you, Mari. Here's what I think you might want to consider.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's like an unbiased opinion, too. It's not like a friend. You don't feel attacked. It's like, this is the person who's supposed to help you.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And it's a person who's hopefully an expert, you know, in this. This. So they. They would know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. I love therapy. I think it's everything. I do it every week.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Me too.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You do?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You have your own therapist.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Oh, yeah. I love my therapist.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Love that.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Shout out to my therapist.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Any advice on body image during pregnancy? We talked about that a little bit, and it is a. Interesting thing to go through.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Quite a dramatic shift.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Any advice there?

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Well, I'll share what I experience. And I know what I experience is different than what you. You experienced, so maybe you can share a little, too, but. I was afraid of getting pregnant because of gaining weight and how it was going to. Everyone told me it was going to change my body. I was very afraid. And I went. I. It was like, a part of the reason why even when I got married, I, like, didn't want to get pregnant right away because I was like, oh, my God, I know it's going to be so hard. Losing weight is going to be so hard. I don't want my body to change. And so it was something I very much dreaded. And really, like, there was energy around this that I was, like, dreading my body changing. For me, when I got pregnant, I never felt more beautiful in my life. I just let myself eat whatever I wanted. And for me, the experience of pregnancy really freed me from a lot of my body dysmorphia because I started really thinking more about what my body was doing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Rather than what my body looked like. I shifted from becoming an object to becoming embodied.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And I was no longer looking at myself and judging my body. It was more just like I was like, wow, look at what my body's doing. And I don't know, it's like the. The growth of my Body and my boobs getting so big and my butt getting big and my stomach getting big. Like, it felt so feminine to me.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That it was healing to me in a way, because I started seeing my body as more than just an object for men to look at.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I was like, oh, I'm so much more than that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Like I'm God's child.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You know, and my body is doing this incredible thing. Thing. So for me, it was very healing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

But I. I know it's not that way for everyone.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I love that mindset, though. Like, that is really therapeutic to even hear.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

That's my advice.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

See if you can start thinking and tapping into what your body is doing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Rather than viewing yourself as an object.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes. I feel like I feel that way when I see the ultrasound, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, something's really alive inside me. Like, that makes me really register it.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I had a little bit, and I feel a lot better now, actually. But at the beginning. Well, actually, even just a couple weeks ago, I had a moment. I talked about it on the show in a public gym where I, like, looked in the mirror, and I felt like I was looking at me before I lost weight. And I had this, like, triggering moment where I was so upset, and it immediately brought me back to that headspace. Like, I'm lazy. I let my life. Life slip away from me, and I had to really work out of that feeling. And I'm sure people who have gone through weight loss probably could resonate now that I feel like I look a little bit more pregnant. I love it. Like, I like showing my belly and, like, I want to look pregnant. I can't wait to have a big belly. But at first, when your body's, you kind of just look a little bit bloated. At the beginning, that was the tough part for me, and I'm still a little bit in that. But, yeah, it's been an adjustment, for sure. And I. I think also, when you go through infertility, you're kind of like, well, I'm not allowed to feel sad. Or people tell that you can't feel.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Because you should just be grateful.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes. Yeah. That's what we talked about last night. Like, two things can't exist at the same time.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yes.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I can be grateful, but also freaking out.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

How can I forgive myself for the abortion I had? Yeah. That's real.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Abortion is also a loss. Yep. But it takes on an extra layer because it's a loss that you chose.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

But Please don't forget that it was still a loss. It's different for everyone. And not everyone experiences abortion as loss. But if someone feels that they need to forgive themself for an abortion, then that tells me you experienced your abortion as a loss. Right. And a loss that you chose. Maybe you would make the same choice over again. Maybe you wouldn't. I don't know. But I think that you need to grieve the loss.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Talk to yourself like you would a friend with compassion so you can say things like you made the best choice you could with the circumstances and the information that you had at that time. Right. And, you know, it's hard because some people have no regret whatsoever about their abortion, and that is completely valid. This woman sounds like there's a piece of her that, you know, at least has a part of shame and regret around it. And I think grieving the loss and then being compassionate with yourself about, you did the best that you could with the information, resources, and knowledge that you had then. Because we're all just doing the best that we can, you know? And Lord knows that there are choices that I made previous in my life that I now could judge based on the resources, knowledge, and information that I have today. But I wasn't that person then. I didn't have those things. So you can't go back and make a different choice from a place of being the person you are now.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You have to give yourself grace that you did the best that you could with what you had then.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

And grieve the loss.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So well said. And I don't see that topic spoken about very often.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

No.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So I'm glad that was asked. How do you explain to someone that even when you're finally pregnant, it might still hurt to see others get pregnant easily? I don't know if I actually really feel that way, but someone asked that and I thought it was relevant.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

I felt that way.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Even if you get pregnant through ivf, there are things that you lost. You lost the element of surprise.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes. For sure.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

You lost the element of ease. You lost the element of spontaneous sex with your partner. You know, it didn't happen for you the way you wanted it to. Nobody is like, yes, I can't wait to get pregnant through ivf. Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It didn't happen for you the way that you wanted. And you still. At least I still had this sort of fantasy in my mind of what it is and feels like to get pregnant without all of that pain and loss associated with it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Like, man, how nice that must be to just be pregnant without having to go through trauma first. To just, like, enjoy your pregnancy and not be a traumatized person. You know, I really get that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I think I felt a sting, but then it goes away.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. Because you got what you wanted and you can rest in that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yes. And I think I also get excited to be pregnant with other people. Like, that's kind of what I channel it into. But I do very much understand this feeling. Like, I did grieve losing that. I always envisioned finding out I'm pregnant one day and oh, my goodness. And the way I was gonna tell Greg, none of that happened.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're not grateful to be pregnant.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

It doesn't mean that you're not excited to be pregnant. You are. It's just you can feel lots of different things at the same time.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Because we're complex people.

[Mari Llewellyn]

There's a gray area. Big fan of the gray area. Dr. Molly, thank you so much for this amazing conversation. This is seriously, I think, my favorite episode I've ever done. It was so fabulous. Can you please tell everyone where they can find you online? Any resources if they want to work with you? All the things.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Yeah. So on Instagram, my handle is at Dr. Molly Burritz. So that's D R M O L L Y B U R R E T S. My website is www.Dr.mollyburtz.com. there's a lot of free resources on my website and more to come soon. I'm also. I've got a podcast in the works that I'm really excited about. So if you follow me, you'll get lots of information about that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, I can't wait. I think that's going to be so fabulous. Thank you so much and have a safe flight back to California.

[Dr. Molly Buritz]

Thank you. Thanks for having me. Marijuana.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Thank you for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness podcast to support this show. Please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my [e-mail] it will be linked in the show Notes. This podcast is a Pursuit Network production brought to you by Michaela Phillips, Joel Contartese, Daviel Waldner, and Mackenzie Meisel. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Love you POW girls and POW boys. I will see you next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, talk to your doctor or health team.