Toxins Exposed: The Ultimate Expert Mashup

Summary

Podcast Summary: Pursuit of Wellness - Episode: "Toxins Exposed: The Ultimate Expert Mashup"

Release Date: August 4, 2025

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Introduction to Non-Toxic Living

In this enlightening episode of "Pursuit of Wellness," host Mari Llewellyn delves deep into the realm of non-toxic living. She articulates her personal journey towards embracing a toxin-free lifestyle and emphasizes finding a balanced middle ground between complete avoidance of chemicals and being inundated with toxins daily.

Mari Llewellyn [00:00]:

“I think there's definitely two ends of the spectrum... and I think there's a middle ground.”

She highlights practical steps individuals can take, such as avoiding fragranced candles, using clean cleaning products, opting for organic foods, and improving home air quality—aiming to create a sanctuary that allows the body to reset and cleanse from environmental toxins.

Cleaning Products and Branch Basics

Mari introduces Merrily, an expert who discusses the hidden dangers in conventional cleaning products, particularly focusing on wet wipes. Merrily explains the necessity of preservatives in wet wipes to prevent mold, which unfortunately introduces harmful chemicals into daily use products.

Merrily [02:29]:

“Benzalkonium chloride, you have to add methyl isothiolosanone... in very small amounts could turn on and off genetic expression.”

To combat this, Merrily advocates for using homemade dry wipes sprayed with all-purpose cleaner, eliminating the need for harmful preservatives. She shares her positive experience with "Branch Basics," a non-toxic cleaning concentrate she endorses for its safety and effectiveness.

Mari Llewellyn [05:09]:

“I use Branch Basics... it's so effective.”

Air Quality and Purification

Greg, another expert guest, discusses the critical importance of air quality both indoors and outdoors. He explains how modern homes, optimized for energy efficiency, trap pollutants inside, leading to poor air quality that exacerbates health issues like asthma and autoimmune diseases.

Greg [26:00]:

“Homes are basically like Tupperware bags... all the outdoor air comes in... everything gets trapped inside.”

He underscores the necessity of ventilation and the use of air purifiers to mitigate these issues. Greg provides actionable tips, such as testing range hoods to ensure they ventilate outside and maintaining proper humidity levels to prevent mold growth.

Greg [31:02]:

“A lot of cleaning chemicals... get embedded in your carpets and your furniture.”

Pets and Allergens

The conversation shifts to how pets contribute to indoor toxins, primarily through dander and cat litter. Greg clarifies that many people may mistake reactions to pet dander as allergies to the animals themselves, when in reality, it's often the chemicals in conventional cat litter that cause adverse reactions.

Greg [34:53]:

“Pets have allergens... cat litter messes up a lot of people, myself included.”

He recommends switching to organic litter options and emphasizes the importance of air purification, especially for households with pets that share their living spaces intimately.

Mold Toxicity and Health Impacts

A significant portion of the episode focuses on mold toxicity and its extensive impact on health. Both Merrily and Greg share their personal battles with mold exposure, detailing how it can lead to chronic conditions like eczema, ADHD, and even Lyme disease.

Greg [40:21]:

“Mold is the cause of Lyme disease... fix the mold, and the body gets rid of the Lyme.”

Merrily discusses the role of epigenetics in overcoming genetic predispositions towards poor detoxification, sharing her daughter's successful battle against severe eczema through a comprehensive mold detox protocol that included saunas and herbal treatments.

Merrily [19:37]:

“It shows the power of epigenetics... we are not victims of our genetics.”

Personal Experiences and Protocols

Dave Asprey, a renowned figure in the wellness community, joins the discussion to share his extensive experience with mold toxicity and its intersection with Lyme disease. He provides a candid account of his symptoms stemming from early-life mold exposure and outlines his detox protocols, which include diet modifications and specific supplements to combat mycotoxins.

Dave Asprey [51:43]:

“Mold is a strong immune system activator... they directly poison mitochondria and wreak havoc.”

Asprey emphasizes the importance of high-quality, mold-free products and the necessity of addressing environmental toxins to effectively detoxify the body.

Conclusion & Key Takeaways

The episode wraps up with actionable advice for listeners eager to start their non-toxic journey:

1. Begin with Removal: Identify and eliminate sources of toxins in your home, such as conventional cleaning products, fragrances, and pesticides.

2. Embrace Natural Products: Switch to non-toxic alternatives like Branch Basics for cleaning and opt for organic personal care items.

3. Improve Air Quality: Invest in quality air purifiers, ensure proper ventilation, and regularly maintain home appliances to reduce indoor pollutants.

4. Be Mindful of Pets: Use organic cat litter, groom pets regularly, and consider keeping them out of certain living spaces to minimize allergens.

5. Address Mold Issues: If experiencing health issues, consider testing for mold and implementing a comprehensive detox protocol tailored to your needs.

Mari Llewellyn [42:48]:

“Investing in clean air is one of the most important ways to invest in your health.”

By integrating these practices, listeners can create a healthier living environment that supports overall wellness, enabling their bodies to function optimally free from the burdens of environmental toxins.

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Note: The episode contains discussions on specific products and protocols. Listeners are encouraged to consult with healthcare professionals before making significant changes to their health routines.

Transcript

[Mari Llewellyn]

This is the Pursuit of Wellness podcast and I'm your host, Mari Llewellyn. Hi, guys. Welcome back to pow. Today we have an amazing episode all about non toxic living. This is something that I have really evolved into over the past couple years. I think having this podcast and speaking to some amazing experts has really helped me lean into that and really embrace non toxic living where I can in a balanced way. I think there's definitely two ends of the spectrum, like full non toxic living where you avoid every chemical possible and live in the middle of nowhere. And then there's the other spectrum where you are like ingrained in toxins every day. And I think that there's a middle ground and I think by listening to the experts we have on the show today, you'll be able to decipher, okay, what can I actually do comfortably? And for me it's a few things. For me it's, you know, not having fragrant candles in the house, not having air fresheners in my car, using clean cleaning products, eating organic foods, using red light bulbs in my bedroom. Like, I guess I'm a little more on the far end of the spectrum, a little more non toxic. But I think there's something we can all learn from this episode and it's really important because it's having a significant impact on our hormones, our endocrine system. We're seeing it affect us, I mean even me. Like microplastics are affecting us and heavy metals and it's affecting our fertility and our health in general. So I think where we can embracing non toxic living can just only help us, our future children, the kids you have now, our pets, whatever it may be. So I really think you guys will enjoy this episode. We have some amazing guests on the show with amazing advice for products you can use for non toxic personal care and household products. Even improving air quality in the home. That's been huge for me and Greg. We filtering water, there's so many things you can do. I think creating a sanctuary in your house allows you to go out into the world and be exposed to toxins, but we allow your body to reset and cleanse those toxins while you're in your own home. So without further ado, we are going to hear from some top experts on the topic of non toxic living. Let's get right into it. Wet wipes have preservatives. So you're using a dry wipe that you spray the branch basically all purpose on. And you can use that on skin.

[Merrily]

Skin, exactly. And so y', all, I've Done this for three kids. People will say, oh my gosh, it's just one extra step. But I'm telling you, I'm in this industry and it's like when you know better, you do better. There is no way that you can take a cleaning product and apply it to a substrate like a cloth, which is what a wet wipe is, and not add a preservative that is at a certain amount, which is a pretty high amount to be honest. Because if you don't, you'll get mold. Right. And so there's a reason that you don't get mold. So if you were to spray Range basics on a wet, on a dry wipe and leave it there, within two to three days there's going to be mold. Okay. So you have to add benzalkonium chloride, you have to add methyl isothiolosanone. They're all these pesticide preservatives. And like I said, even in a very small amount is going to. Epigenetics shows that they could actually turn on and off genetic expression. And think about the amount of times you're using a wipe. If it was just a once in a while thing, I'd be like, okay, whatever. But, but this is on a very tender absorbable area of your child going pretty much straight into the bloodstream. Super thin skin multiple times a day. So I use Honest company organic dry wipes and I literally just spray it with water or a little bit of all purpose. And my kids have never had a diaper rash or anything like that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

It's insane to me that those ingredients are in kids products.

[Merrily]

Well, and the non toxic ones.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And it makes sense though, like why would a wipe remain moist and perfect and mold free? It has to have that preservative. Tell us what's in Branch Basics, like how does it work? What's the magic? Because I know there's not a ton of stuff in there, but what is in there?

[Merrily]

Yeah, I love that you're asking this. No one really asks this. And I'm not a chemist. I did not formulate our product. But who did actually formulate our product were the thousands of clients that Merrily has worked with for 35 years. They were the ones that were really our testing group. And so we worked with many, many people over. We did, let's see, over 100 iterations, about 18 months it took to come out with our concentrate. And essentially it is a natural surfactant. So we have cocoa glucoside and decal glucoside. All of our ingredients are rated either 1 or a 2 on the EWG, but those are just general surfactants. We have sodium phytate, which is almost like a binder that binds minerals and chemicals. And then sodium citrate, which is a natural salt that acts as a water softener. And then we have chamomile, which is our preservative. So yeah, it's I. People say, what's one thing you can't live without? You can take everything else away, but.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Don'T you take my concentrate, guys. I use brunch basics. I have hand soap in every bathroom. Dishwashing, the tablets. We use it as detergent. Like I use it all over our house. And it's so effective.

[Merrily]

It doesn't smell.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Smell like anything, which I really appreciate. And it's, it's good. I feel good about using it. I have two dogs. I have a husband who's eating off of everything.

[Merrily]

That thing is huge.

[Mari Llewellyn]

The pet thing is huge. They lick and they get everywhere. My dogs climb.

[Merrily]

Your pets? Fleas. I'm not gonna say anything about claims. Fleas hate branch basics. We hate branch basics. So when we used to have a dog, we would take the dog to Petco with the big foamer. This was back in the OG days. We had like a huge, like 24, 32 ounce, 24 ounce foamer. And we would drop off the foamer bottle already ready to go, and I would pick my dog up. We were living at our in laws and so we were required to clean our dog a certain amount of times. I finally had to turn to Petco and they were like, what is in this stuff? The fleas were just literally just flying off of your lab.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh my God.

[Merrily]

Because they hate soap. I mean, when you think about it, it's an exoskeleton reaction. It's not a neurological reaction. So. So soap is what a lot of non toxic gardeners use to keep pests away because it actually breaks up the exoskeleton.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Had no idea that I could wash my dog shampoo.

[Merrily]

No claims being made here.

[Mari Llewellyn]

No claims are being made. Thank you. But I will be trying that. That sounds really good.

[Merrily]

It's great.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Merrily]

It's great for their skin, you know, that gets so itchy. And if you really look at what we're putting in those quote unquote natural dog shampoos, the fragrances and you know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I know I, I feel bad when my dog smells like a papaya because I'm like, this really shouldn't be the case.

[Merrily]

It's not good for us. It's not good for them.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, it's not. Outside of a clean home and not using chemicals, how do you go about living your healthiest life possible? I know we spoke about enemas.

[Merrily]

Oh, yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Can we talk about enemas?

[Merrily]

Oh, yes, we can definitely talk about enemas.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Because you've struggled with your skin, you've struggled with pcos. I know. Recently you struggled with lime and mold.

[Merrily]

Still have. I was telling Mari before the podcast, you know, they're being pregnant is such a blessing, and we keep getting pregnant, and so it's been about eight years, and I nurse my babies usually until the next pregnancy, but it has definitely stifled my ability to release toxins. And, you know, so everything I do is obviously very gentle. I'm not using the infrared sauna, but I still have Candida and I still have mold. So when I hear about your story, I'm thinking, oh, wow, you're really cleared out your heavy metals and such. I have. My heavy metals are very, very, very low. But that Candida can be super persistent.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, that was a tough. That was a tough one.

[Merrily]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

But that's not to say that I don't have other gut things now.

[Merrily]

Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So I'm dealing with that now. Yeah.

[Merrily]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And sometimes Western medicine has to come into play, and that's something that I've had to realize.

[Merrily]

Even things like sibo, I mean, sometimes you have to bring out the bigger guns for sure. But just, you know, it's kind of like what I said a little bit earlier. We just have to know that when we do, it's usually not isolated to fixing that one issue. And so if we can support. Support our body through the castor oil packs and the coffee enemas and the grounding and the removal of toxic pesticides and the not being addicted to our phones, which are just making everything so much harder. You know, practitioners these days, it's like the protocols that used to work. Merrily says, gosh, I can't tell you, in the past 35 years, it has gotten so much harder for the same supplement and the same protocol and the same treatment plan to work. And she's like, it's a hundred percent because of the electromagnetic fields. So that's a whole nother subject. But I think for me and just my lifestyle, people look at me and what I eat and what I do, which it's been 15 years now, and it's second nature. And, you know, people will say, gosh, how do you eat that way? Or how do you avoid refined sugars? Or how Are you taking the time for this? And for me, it's not a restriction. These are boundaries of my freedom. I've never felt better. And so people can say, you know, oh, well, I need more balance, or you need more balance. And for me, I'm like, well, guess what's not balanced? Chronic pain and muscle relaxers and painkillers and living at a pharmacy and, you know, being told I would never get pregnant. Like, that's not balance. Or having a child with chronic illness, you know, So I get. I get a little bit fired up on that topic. Because, yes, I think that when we are feeling our best and we're not fighting a health issue, sure. Like, go have that hamburger and fries and this and that. And listen, people, I have struggled with emotional eating. I understand that there's definitely a time and place for restrictive eating. But I'm. I'm more. More just talking about the bigger picture of choosing healthy products. And if the eating thing is a big thing, maybe put that aside and think about the things that you're cleaning with, that you're washing your hair with. Think about finding a person to dye your hair that doesn't use ammonia and formaldehyde. You can start anywhere. Start at the place that causes the least amount of stress. Take the pesticides, mildewicides, fungicides out of your home. That can't be that stressful. They are the biggest underminer of our health. Open our windows, take our shoes off. It's not just about bringing dog poop in the house. It's about lowering the pesticide exposure in our home. So filter your water. Get a Filtreat filter from Home Depot and put it on a box fan and. And filter your home air filter for 20 bucks. You know, meet yourself where you are. But there are things nowadays that I just do. I love. Yeah, back to the coffee enemas. I love them. I will say I've been doing it for 15 years. I did one this morning. I am five months pregnant. If you're listening, do not start them when you're pregnant. But our body produces glutathione. And so when you do a coffee enema, and you are, especially with the coffee and the caffeine, it goes up the hemorrhoidal vein, and it basically instigates your natural glutathione production by almost 100%. And so it can upregulate your metabolism. It's amazing for skin, it's amazing for brain health, gut health. I could just go on and on about. I've gotten so Many of my friends, addicted people are leaving voice texts. Okay, now what do I do? Now that's going to be on all fours.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's going to be me off to the show. Me and Fi are going to do it together.

[Merrily]

Sending all buckets.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Do you know what's the bucket for?

[Merrily]

Well, you have to put the coffee in a bucket and then you hang it on a hook and then you have, like a small tube. It's nothing scary because it has to travel. Yep. Got gotta. You gotta work with gravity. Get on all fours.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Merrily]

And play your favorite song, read whatever you're gonna do. And I'm telling you, even just like once a week, once every other week. It's one of those things that detox, you know, habits that actually you can see the biggest difference in a short amount of time. I'm one of those that really likes, like, that quick, you know? Yeah. Like, you have a dusty table and you just see where you're wiping, you know, Like, I like the satisfaction of vacuuming. And that's how I feel about coffee enemas. You know, the castor oil packs are amazing. And the sesame oil pulling in your mouth and the oil cleansing. You can do all these amazing grounding. But I see the most bang for my buck with my. With my coffee enemas.

[Mari Llewellyn]

And you saw an improvement in your skin.

[Merrily]

That was honestly one of the biggest things.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Merrily]

Yeah, that was one of the biggest things is if you really think about it, I mean, up in glutathione, your master antioxidant.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Merrily]

You're upregulating so much of your body. You're helping your liver. And I will say, I think the skin and like that brightening eye and the energy was the. The biggest plus. Obviously, gut motility were the biggest pluses of the. The coffee enema.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I love what you said about eating the way that you do gives you freedom. And I feel that way as well. Like, finding whole foods and eating the way I do allows me to live my life to the best of its ability. And I feel like there is some judgment around clean eating. And it's like, are you really enjoying yourself? Like, it gets a little tricky. And I feel like when you've had a health issue, like chronic pain, like pcos, like acne, food can be medicine. It can be so healing. And there's a time and a place. Like, I'm going on a trip for my birthday. I will be having tacos.

[Merrily]

100.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I will be having margaritas.

[Merrily]

Tacos are part of my boundaries, actually. Boundaries of my Freedom. You can do it.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You can do a clean taco.

[Merrily]

You can do a clean mad, clean taco.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wait.

[Merrily]

Welcome to Texas, girl.

[Mari Llewellyn]

How do you do your tacos?

[Merrily]

I like to do the 100 organic corn and we'll, you know, steam the corn tortilla. I've just started reintroducing cheese after two years and I'm really enjoying this cheese journey.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh my God.

[Merrily]

But I do raw organic, you know, I don't do much but that and then some, you know, great force of nature or primal pastures or you know, whatever meat. I mean we, we get very ancestral with our meat at my home. Liver, lots of liver. Maybe not my tacos. Although force of nature does a liver ancestral blend. That is. That's really wonderful.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You wouldn't even know.

[Merrily]

You can hide it in those tacos. Your k. Yeah, they never know. Yeah. Gotta add some cilantro and guac.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. So you guys recently moved from Houston to the countryside?

[Merrily]

No, opposite. So we actually, I grew up in Houston. We moved to Salado, which was north, which is north of Austin. Lived there during COVID and our house actually got taken. The house we're building got taken by a tornado two years ago. And so we moved back to Houston and that's. That's where we are with our three girls and almost boy.

[Mari Llewellyn]

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[Merrily]

We live in a neighborhood that doesn't have a mosquito truck and that's very intentional. And I, my kids are barefoot a lot. We have a guy that comes to our house once a week for heavyweight training and he's like, do your kids even own shoes? I'm like, they do, but they don't wear them. They take them off immediately when they see grass. So they've been well trained. And there's just, there's, you know, I've thrown my kids in the infrared sauna and it has done wonders for their health.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So. Oh yeah, you told me. Okay, what did that do for them?

[Merrily]

So my firstborn was born, you know, healthy and strong and on time and at home. And then all of a sudden at six months old, we have this huge eczema issue and I'm like, oh no, no, we do it all right. My kids don't have eczema. What is this? It was a very humbling experience. And thank God I didn't go straight to the cortisone creams and the typical route because I ended up doing genetic testing. And the poor girl, I mean, double MTHFR from her parents and really weak detoxification system. And she is the one that actually had me read Ben Lynch's book on dirty jeans, which really convinced me about the power of epigenetics and how we are not victims of our genetics. My daughter has no eczema. We went through. We did herbals, we did binders. We stuck her in the sauna for 10 minutes, slapped some Curious George on 3 years old, and she is. Her skin is perfectly clear. And we just didn't. We took a different route. And I'm so thankful because instead of taking the batteries out of the fire alarm, we really got to the fire. And it took time. It took like two years for her. It was really bad eczema. But now there's not even a sign of it. And it's been really cool to see how epigenetics, which is basically the power of our choice and our lifestyle. It's called the science of hope. It has totally trumped the. The genetic deck that she was given because I had the CEO actually, or CMO of this genetic testing company reach out to my health practitioner, who then forwarded me the email and said, this child is going to need a lot of support throughout her whole life. This is a really, really weak detoxification. I mean, I was just weeping as I'm reading this email, and my child is so strong, she's rarely sick. She. Yeah. So it just shows. It does. It does help.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's so inspiring to hear. I actually just did my own genetic testing and I could see that I have a hard time detoxifying. I don't have the m. What is it?

[Merrily]

Mhfr.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I don't. Which is shocking.

[Merrily]

That's amazing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I know it's shocking. But I do have other markers that indicate that I have a hard time clearing out the cell. And there's certain things I don't absorb. So it's really nice to have that information and just know that going forward. Yes.

[Merrily]

Genetics loads the gun choices pull the trigger.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. But great to know that we can put our kids in the sauna for 15 minutes.

[Merrily]

Oh, my gosh. And kids, they. Y'. They heal so quickly. I remember being so jealous because we moved into a home with mold when my. My second child was one and Lyme disease that I Had had my entire life and didn't know about, was activated and I gave her Lyme through my breast milk, which of course I felt horrible about. She was just constantly crying and just vaginal redness and she was just a mess. Um, so we ended up taking her in. Positive for Lyme, pretty high markers. We put her on some herbals again, put her in the sauna, 10 minutes, Curious George, maybe some Peppa Pig. And within six months tested negative for Lyme. And you know, I'm still over here like testing very positive, like, gosh, it's just amazing, you know, and even we were still living in some mold and the kids just are so resilient.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow. It's inspiring for us though to see. Okay, if my child can do it, I can too.

[Merrily]

Yes, absolutely. Just takes us a little bit longer. We have, we have more baggage.

[Mari Llewellyn]

For anyone listening who maybe wants to start their non toxic journey and purchase Branch Basics, what would you recommend is like the, the starter product?

[Merrily]

Yeah, well, my, I always tell people this, please don't buy Range Basics thinking that this is your ticket and okay, I'm going to be healthy. Because this journey is not about actually buying anything, it's about removal. So when I send Range Basics out, which I do a lot, I meet someone and I'm like, give me your address. But I say please get rid of X, Y and Z from underneath your countertop and please get rid of your Glade plugins and please, I hate to name brands but please, please get rid of your pesticide guy that's coming, you know.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Merrily]

And then bring in the non toxic, you know, so our starter kit's great. That's where to start. And you know, just know that it's really about removal. We have a, we have a toss the toxins online course that is essentially taking Merrilee's almost 40 years of client consulting and putting it into a course where Merily, Kelly and I are basically sitting on a couch and we break down in 12 different modules where to start. So pesticides, cleaning products, laundry room. We go through everything from, you know, filtering your water at a budget friendly rate all the way to emotions because emotions are toxic. So if something here that I'm saying is making you feel overwhelmed, don't start there, you know, because it's toxic. So yeah, just power of, power of removal and then buying Branch Basics, I will say it, it does work and it does make the process easy.

[Mari Llewellyn]

What does it look like when someone is sick from toxic air?

[Greg]

Everybody's stuff was exasperated. So if someone had Asthma. They were having asthma attacks for sure.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

If they, so if they already had like respiratory stuff it was going to be way worse. If they had autoimmune stuff it would be very flared up. Kind of like what I like to explain is most of the things that are bad about eating bad food or drinking bad water are very similar to breathing bad air. Is just this another toxin source that you introduce to your body that kind of triggers everything. So yeah, respiratory stuff was the most heightened. And then anyone elderly that was like on CPAP machines was really struggling, Babies were really struggling. So like the most vulnerable populations were put over the edge.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

And then people who were generally healthy were just like unwell. So if it's a wildfire, smoke, like your lungs can burn a little bit, skin stuff, itchy eyes, rashes, autoimmune flare up. So it's really like across the board with mold.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I have heard and I've experienced my own mold issues. But doesn't mold stay in your system for a really long time?

[Greg]

It's kind of like heavy metals and stuff like. Yeah, if you don't have a detox protocol then it can stay in there and be a problem. And molds not usually one of those things that is acute. It's more of like a chronic long term thing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So if, if you sleep in a moldy hotel room one night, it's definitely going to mess you up for the night. You know, you'll have a bad sleep, you might get headaches, brain fog, a little bit of rash, but you'll be okay. A couple of days later it'll clear out. But when you're living in a moldy environment then it's just really gets, gets inside you. I've almost never seen someone who's done a, a mycotoxin or a mold test from like a urine or blood analysis that didn't have some amount of mold. It's just like it's omnipresent. But yeah, it definitely stays in you for quite some time.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Did you have high levels of mold from your work being exposed to toxic environments?

[Greg]

Yeah, I didn't realize it at the time cuz my, I mean when I'd go to these like disaster zones, we were working like 18 hours a day and living a pretty unhealthy lifestyle for a few months at a time.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

And yeah, mold, but also for us heavy metals were really bad too because it wasn't just the 5000 homes that burnt down or it wasn't just the million acres of trees that burnt or the 5, 000 homes. But everything in every house was gone. So when you would drive down a street after a wildfire zone, all you see is chimney stacks, piles of ash and chimney stacks. So where's the WD40? Where's the paint cans? Whereas all the cleaning chemicals, like literally the cars, the fuel, everything in everyone's homes, the factories, kind of got into the smoke and makes it like a toxic plume of smoke. Yeah, I got like, I still have a little bit of it. It gets triggered now by like gluten. I have a bit of psoriasis and that, that got triggered after this wildfire in 2016 and like living in that environment.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Did you go on a detox protocol after that?

[Greg]

I have, and I probably am due for another one now.

[Mari Llewellyn]

What are some major things, like, for people sitting at home who have maybe never had an air purifier, have never noticed or thought about air quality, why do they need an air purifier? Like, what are some of the things that they could be noticing that they're missing?

[Greg]

So an air purifier is one of the tools, but there's actually a lot of stuff that people can do, like for free at home immediately. And I think the main thing is just starting from air awareness.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So, like broadly, there's outdoor air pollution and there's indoor air pollution. So outdoor air pollution is your mold, your pollen, your allergens, the rubber from the tires, the chemicals, the factories, just like general pollution. Then indoor air pollution is all the off gassing from the furniture, the carpets, the flooring, the paints. Pretty much anything manufactured has an off gassing, period. Pets, cooking, cleaning products. The list really, really goes on. And if you think about homes, we've, since the 70s in particular, we started building our homes, optimizing them for energy efficiency.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So the problem is we're trying to keep the cool in in the summer and the warm air in in the winter. But the problem is we keep everything in. So we have all the outdoor air comes in the pollen, the allergens, the mold, the pollution. Then we all have the, the indoor pollutants. And our homes are basically like Tupperware bags. Like, they're like little plastic bags or Tupperware boxes. So everything gets trapped inside. Here in Austin, when we do allergy testing in the spring, if we test someone's carpet or even like a couch material, there's typically more pollen inside than outside, even on a bad allergy day. So you see like a bad allergy day, they're like, stay inside Stay inside. You're like, you have just as much. If you weren't filtering your air and cleaning your surfaces well, you have just as much allergens, if not more indoors than outside. And outside, we have the sun, UV light, we have the wind, the rain, and the trees. Those four things make up nature's air purifier, which is the real air purifier, which is also why our logo is a tree. Because we should not need air purifiers. If we built our homes better and we polluted less and we didn't cut down so many trees, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So should we be keeping our windows and doors open as much as possible?

[Greg]

Yeah. And I think the same way people check the temperature, like people think about weather, has the temperature, sun or cloud, and will it rain. And I always look at air quality, and you could Google wherever you like now. Tesla, Google, Apple, everyone's starting to report on air quality.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Is that accurate, though?

[Greg]

It's pretty good.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Really?

[Greg]

Yeah, it's pretty good.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Greg]

Quite good.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I don't know why I never believe it.

[Greg]

You can. If it's a cloudy, cool day, but the air quality is super good, then it kind of makes me happier because I'm like, it's cloudy and it's cool and it's rainy, but the air is super fresh. I'm waterproof. Let's go outside. Yeah, but if it's like sunny, but the air is horrible, maybe we'll go for a walk, but maybe not run today. So just kind of increasing that little bit of air awareness.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

And yeah, indoor air particularly is very poor. So the things that people need to think about is there's fresh air, which you can only get by ventilation. So to answer your question about windows and doors and stuff, if the. If it's obviously in Austin in summertime, we're not opening our windows. It's too hot. So if it's not too hot, not too cold, and the outdoor air is relatively clean, then, yes, open your windows. Like, get fresh air. And especially when you're cooking. And on that note, people should test their range hoods. More than half of people's range hoods don't actually work. So if you take it, just take a tissue, do a tissue test, turn your range hood on, hold it up to the vent, and make sure it's actually pulling the tissue up, and then make sure it's venting outside, because often that thing is venting into the crawl space. It's venting behind your wall. It's Like a little microwave one that's like venting in the cabinet above or in your attic. It's not actually venting outside, it's just putting it in another room. And if you can, when you're cooking, especially if you're boiling stuff, use the back burner because the range hood does collect much much more from the back burner. The shower, when you're using your bathroom fan, run it for like two hours after your shower because all that humidity and make sure that vents outside too. Those often vent into attics because you shower. Think about how much water a towel can soak up. So when you're done showering, there's like a gallon plus of water just like on your towel in the shower floor. And then if it's not exhausting outside, that just goes inside and that contributes to your mold growth.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Why is cooking creating toxins in the air?

[Greg]

So a few reasons. Definitely like a non stick pan is worse. Not clean food is worse. But even if you're using your grass fed grass finish steak with organic oils and everything and you no seed oils and you're doing all the things right, high heat and protein creates a lot of byproducts. So there's chemical compounds that are created like pah, which is polysilic aromatic hydrocarbons and a bunch more stuff, same stuff that we'd be testing for after wildfire smoke. So there's a lot of like chemical compounds that aren't the food and aren't the oil that get created from the proteins and the heat and that's. And then that gets embedded in your carpets and your furniture. Anything in your home that can get wet and absorb water, also absorb air. And then the other thing to consider is just because you can eat something, it doesn't mean you can breathe it. Because when you eat something you get your digestive system to break it down, pull out the nutrients, filter out the rest. When you breathe it, it's really harsh. Our respiratory system is not as robust as our digestive system. So like just cuz you can put something in your mouth doesn't mean you can put it in your nose.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Which is why when someone's cooking, if they can. Yeah. Doors and windows open for sure. Or you know, if you don't have that, that's, that's when purifying your air becomes much more mandatory. But there's still no substitute for fresh air and ventilation.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So I should put a Jasper in the kitchen because we make a ton of red meat.

[Greg]

Living room, it will be the craziest.

[Mari Llewellyn]

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[Greg]

Pets have allergens. So just right off the bat, the, the pet dander.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Their fur is problematic and a lot of people actually who think they're allergic to cats end up being allergic to cat litter, not cats. So I thought I was allergic to cats. I wasn't. I was allergic to cat litter.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Why?

[Greg]

Well, go look at the, go look at the chemical sheet of like a dust based plumping litter. It's literally like the worst chemicals ever.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wait, I didn't even think about that.

[Greg]

And then kitty goes. There's like a plume of kitty litter smoke and then you smell it throughout your whole house.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So I don't have cats, but I'm also not allergic to anything.

[Merrily]

So I don't think about this kind of thing.

[Greg]

This is good. This is good. So yeah, cat litter messes up a lot of people, myself included. Okay, then purifying the air helped. You can also switch to like a grass pellet based litter.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I was going to say. Are there like organic ones?

[Greg]

There are. Then the downside is it tracks all over your house. But now they make these little mats that are like, they almost look like foam. They're textured.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So by the time the cat walks away from the litter box, most of it's fallen off.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Greg]

And then dogs on the other hand, they go outside.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Right.

[Greg]

So take this picture for a sec. Would you ever take a blanket, go outside with your blanket, rub it on the grass, soak up some nice glyphosate, find some dogs, rub it on their butt a little, rub it on some trees, rub it on some roads, and then shake it out in your bed at night.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know what I'm picturing right now? My little dog Arnold eating roadkill. Because that's like his favorite thing. He'll like run up to A dead squirrel and just. Yeah, that's probably why I have H. Pylori.

[Greg]

Yeah, that sounds like a likely cause.

[Mari Llewellyn]

No, you're so right about that. I didn't even think in that way. I mean, my question was more. So is the Jasper also benefiting my dog?

[Greg]

Oh, for sure.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Yeah. Dogs get allergies too.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So, yeah, the dog is like this sponge that you put out into the world, soak up all the beautiful glyphosate, and then ring it out in your bed at night. And most people sleep with their dogs.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So I'm on our. On our air quality quiz, we. It's like, do you have any pets? If it says yes, dog, cat, or both. And then if they say dog or cat, we're like, do you sleep with your pet? Like, we know you do. And then if they say yes, we'll like, email them about that because, yeah, that's like a huge source of introducing allergens into your bedroom.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So keeping your dog groomed is going to be super helpful. But I always tell people you can either, like, keep the dog out of the room. And if the dog is in the room, that's like a mandatory situation to filter the air.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Because it's not like you're eating the stuff. Same with mold. We can go back to that after. Like, you're not eating the mold, you're not drinking it, you're not rubbing it on your skin. The dog, you might be kind of rubbing it and maybe making out with your dog after it eats roadkill. So maybe that is the. The culprit here.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You're like, you need to figure that out. But, like, my question is, with the grooming, I feel like they use all these crazy chemicals on the dog. Like, the dog comes back smelling like a coconut.

[Greg]

Eek.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know what I'm saying?

[Greg]

I never had a dog. That doesn't surprise me.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I don't like the fragrances of it.

[Greg]

I'm sure that we're in Austin. There's definitely like a holistic wellness, I'm sure. Dog groomer.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I'm sure.

[Greg]

At least brush it. Maybe HEPA vacuum a little.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, you're right.

[Greg]

More of like a. Like, I don't think you need a chemical potion up the dog, but I feel like just a, like a mechanical clean would be beneficial. Yeah, I should probably at least the groom.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah. I'm not, I'm not a big germaphobe, and I think sometimes that's to my detriment. I kind of like, ah, whatever. There's Dirt here, dirt there. But, like, the air purifying, I think makes such a big difference, especially if you're someone who struggles with acne or you have other symptoms. Could bad air quality symptoms show up differently in different people?

[Greg]

Oh, yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Greg]

Same way mold shows up differently in different people.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

When I did mold consulting and testing and restoration for a decade, I could go to a house, two people, let's say a family of five. Two of them could be, like, deathly ill, chronic migraines, fatigue, like, beside themselves, quality of life destroyed, brain fog. One or two of them might have, like, a rash, and one of them might be like, I'm fine. It's kind of an allergen. Same way, like you said, different things impact people differently.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So it impacts people so differently. Some people, it's, like, debilitating. Also. It depends on, you know, how well you. You naturally detox.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Certain people have certain genes or don't have certain genes that change their ability to, like, methylate and detox properly. And then, you know, maybe someone's drinking more water than the other and then. But yeah, it definitely varies depending on the person dramatically. And if they've had a big exposure event and then, you know, it kind of is an everywhere problem. If you live coastal, there's a lot of humidity. Y here, there's a lot of mold. In Austin, there's still humidity and high heat. In Arizona, there's also a ton of mold. People think there's not. I see some of the worst mold toxicity in Arizona of anywhere, because the air so dry, they don't have a natural. Like, they're not used to it. So then if you get a leak in your house, it ravages you. But also, all that desert sand used to be underwater. So if you sampled the desert sand, there's ancient molds that have been there for, who knows, thousands or millions of years. So often when people have big mold toxic exposure events in Arizona, they. It's like after a windstorm or haboob, they have this big exposure. And when they get their mycotoxin and their blood and all their testing done, the same species of mold in their dust is the same. That's in their blood almost unanimously.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's insane.

[Greg]

So it's kind of like an everywhere problem.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow. Yeah. And I. Do you think that the awareness around mold has gone up? Because I feel, like, massive. Yeah. More people are getting their homes tested. Do you feel the same with air quality awareness? Do you think that's still.

[Greg]

It's lagging. So mold is Kind of like a. It's sort of like the new lime.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

It's like a thing that if you're sick and you can't figure it out why, it's like a. It's like a common culprit, but because it's everywhere, it's way more prevalent. You're not like. Yeah, it wasn't like, through a bug bite or something or a mosquito or a tick or something. If you look at the search volume of anything mold related, it looks like a hockey stick. It's like the Nvidia stock. It is going crazy. So the mold awareness is going up. Mold is much scarier than air. Even though anyone who's having a mold problem, it's an air problem. It's not usually the mold on your strawberries. You can see that stuff.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Like, right now, we're breathing some amount of mold, and that's okay. There's a certain amount of reasonable mold in the environment. It's inside, it's outside, it's kind of omnipresent. So this, like, black and white approach to mold is a little bit intense. It's like if you drink tap water, it has chlorine. So do you rip out your pipes or do you filter your water?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yep.

[Greg]

So mold is something that outside, it's not nearly that problematic, because with sun, the wind, the rain, and the trees, it's when mold is indoors that it's a big problem. Mold's not any happier inside than we are or our pets are. It's pissed off, and it wants to get back outside, and it will wreak havoc on us to do so. So, yeah, mold awareness is going up a lot, which I think is a blessing and a curse. It's not a curse in the sense that, like, people were already impacted from it by. For a long period of time. It's not like mold. It's not like it's more humid or hotter, and that's creating more mold growth. It's much more mold awareness. And I mean, humans spend 95 of our time indoors in this part of the world. So it's a blessing and a curse to curse because you got to get outside more. That's too much time inside. It's the blessing, though, because you can. You can turn your home into your clean air sanctuary. Your. You can have clean water, you can make your bedroom a sleep sanctuary. It's the one place where you can, like, dial it in and have it like this wellness sanctuary for not very much money. So I think investing in that is. Is wise air. I Find air quality was lagging water quality awareness by about 20 years. And I think since COVID it's shrunk into about 10 years. Like the gap is closing.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

And this is the way I look at air. Like you could go three weeks without food, three days without water, and only three minutes without air. You can you eat, let's say two pounds of food in a day. You drink like two liters of water and you breathe like 17,000 liters of air. People don't really realize that it's the thing we consume most of by far.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

Just like water. We drink it and we pee it out. Air, we breathe it in and we exhale it. It's very similar. So there was a study recently in the UK that showed the average human breathes a credit card worth of microplastics each week. So sometimes to me, it's staggering that people are like really looking at their food and really looking at the water. And you should be. But the amount of stuff that you're getting from the environment and the amount of toxins you're getting from your home and from the air is far more than water and food. Exponentially more. So it's not about neglecting those other things. And air is also. It's the first thing we do when we're born. It's the last thing we do when we die. It's the only thing that keeps us alive all night long. I call it my sleep fuel. Finland just did a study in these daycares where just by putting a not even good air purifier in the classrooms, 18% less absenteeism right away. So 18, 20% basically less sick kids right off the hop. Wow. So yeah, when you go from breathing in and the most amazing thing. So remember I didn't tell you this part, but I created Jasper originally just for Wildfire Smoke. I thought I was gonna just when. When California would be on fire, we would go there and sell air purifiers and help with that situation. Because that's the background I was in when Covet hit. We were gonna launch June 2020. We ended up launching May 2020. And for the first year we only sold to doctors and dentists. I never in a million years thought I would be talking about wellness.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

This is so much better.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

And I didn't think sleep and allergies and mold and asthma would be like the space we were moving into because I over engineered the product. I made it for toxic smoke and mold, which makes it. And it had to be beautiful even more Effective, it's even more effective. It had to be beautiful and had to be effective and made from steel. That was very important to me. So when all of a sudden, what I didn't think though, with allergies. So people who are struggling from seasonal allergies, often their allergies are gone, like not just reduced, but like 99, just gone. Because if someone has seasonal allergies or whatever it may be that's impacting them allergy wise, they're getting bombarded 24 hours a day. Human body very adapt to handling stresses and trauma and bad air and you know, we can hand, we can handle some stuff, but when it's 24 hours a day, it's like a chronic beatdown.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah.

[Greg]

So when you look at the mold and the pollen and the cedar fever and all that, you're breathing it outside and then you're breathing even more allergens inside. So when that mold and the pollen and everything is hitting you 24 hours a day, you don't have a time, any time to rest and recover. So all of a sudden when you turn your bedroom or your home into a clean air sanctuary, you really reduce that stress load. So now your body, which is like a healing machine, if you just let it do its thing, it can recover. But when it's like, it can't get parasympathetic and it can't do its own healing process when it's constantly under attack. So when you turn your home into a clean air sanctuary or your bedroom into a sleep sanctuary and you're breathing 99 filtered air all night long, all those toxin and stress loads come down. And I love the quote, you can't detox your body if you don't detox your home because it's, it's like running on a treadmill in a gas chamber. You know, you're, you're doing all the stuff to detox, but you're in a toxic environment. So you're retoxing as fast as you're detoxing. So it is massive for sleep.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So if you know me and you've been to my house, my house is full of Jasper air purifiers. It's my favorite air purifier. It actually isn't just an air purifier, it's an air scrubber. It has commercial grade power, but it's quiet and beautiful. I, I am such a big fan of the founder, Mike Feldstein. He's been on the show. You have to listen to this episode. Thousands of listeners who heard him on the podcast already bought Jaspers and are loving them. It was one of my most popular episodes and I think one of the most bought products from any episode we've done on the show, which is really saying a lot. I have a code that's going to give you 400 off and I have to tell you, investing in clean air is one of the most important ways to invest in your health. It gives you better sleep, more energy, clean, fresh air. Jasper is the world's best air scrubber for your home and my home is equipped with them. I'm about to add another one to my nursery. So use code POW POW for 400 off. It's an exclusive deal. Get 400 off with code POW at checkout. Go to Jasper Cow. That's J A S P R dot cow. That's code power. Jasper Co for 400 off your Jasper Air scrubber. I want to talk about mold toxicity because I've spoken about it a ton on this show. I personally struggled with it for a while and for me it came out as acne, which is something I still deal with. But I managed to get rid of the mold. I also had Candida staff, heavy metals and as someone who's like been living a healthy lifestyle for a long time, I was shocked to find that out.

[Dave Asprey]

So tell us, were you living a healthy lifestyle?

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's the thing that I reflect on.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You know, because I was doing hit workouts every single day. No rest.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, an over trained woman. Who would imagine that that might wreck your hormones. It does it to guys too. It just takes us longer. Right.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Tell us about your mold experience. Experience and how you cleansed from that.

[Dave Asprey]

I grew up in a basement in Albuquerque, New Mexico that had been flooded and I had mold exposure from an early age. We didn't know it at the time. You know, it was a nice house with a nice basement. Like, who would have known? So I had nosebleeds like 10 times a day. It's a frequent, frequently occurring symptom with toxic molds. I also had rashes, I had asthma and a lot of behavioral disorders. I was diagnosed with ADHD and odd. You know what that one is?

[Mari Llewellyn]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

Oppositional defiant disorder.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh.

[Dave Asprey]

So think of the rage against the machine song that you. I won't do what you told me. Like, pretty much you have that running all the time in your brain.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That may have served you though at some point.

[Dave Asprey]

You know, it probably did. But it, it does come with just a lot of anger.

[Mari Llewellyn]

When you discovered that you had mold from these symptoms, what was Your first step, because I know it can be a really stubborn toxin.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, wow. Well, let's talk about what mold does. I did a documentary called Moldy Movie, and it's free. Moldy movie dot com. Just go watch it. If anything I'm saying, like, that can't be real. Got a dozen top doctors and a dozen people like you and me who were just taken out by this. What mold does is it grows in houses when there's water damage, including condensation, and 100 million homes, according to the experts in the documentary. Homes or businesses or cars and things like that, they have toxic mold right now in the US Alone. So it's a massive problem. And mold is the cause of Lyme disease.

[Mari Llewellyn]

What?

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, I've been diagnosed with active Lyme. When I say I've been diagnosed, I mean I owned the lab company that did the diagnosis of my Lyme disease.

[Mari Llewellyn]

So that doesn't have to come from a ticket.

[Dave Asprey]

You can get bitten by a tick, and you can get Lyme disease, but the people get chronic Lyme. 90% of them have toxic mold that took their immune system offline. And Lyme is a symptom of mold. You fix the mold, and the body gets rid of the Lyme. Now, this totally triggered some Lyme people who identify as only Lyme. This information comes not just from what I've seen in 20 years of working in the mold and Lyme and chronic illness space, but on my podcast, I interviewed an expert from UCLA who did a genetic analysis and showed just comprehensively that although the symptoms overlap, 90%, 90% of the time, it's mold, not lime. So 10% of the time, it could be just Lyme, in which case you go down the line path. By the way, I did take antibiotics for a year to try and cure the Lyme, but you can't get rid of Lyme if there's mold on board. Okay, so what does mold make? Mold itself, when you're breathing it or getting it on your skin, it is an immune system irritant. It can cause allergies. Just basically dead mold will do that. Mold also makes mycotoxins. These are toxins separate from the mold itself. And when you're talking about something like coffee, the mold is long dead. It's been roasted and brewed, but the toxin is heat stable. And that's why Danger Coffee says mold right on the label. Some other brands I might have been associated with in the past don't say mold on their label anymore.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Mold free, meaning.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. In other words, the. The Coffee's lab tested for mold.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

And I think it's really important because along this journey, as I was figuring things out, I gave up coffee for five years.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

Because one thing that mold does is it causes your immune system to go into almost like a fight or flight response when you're re exposed. People who have had mold, they walk into a moldy building and they're. The nervous system gets dysregulated. It's a cell danger response. So I gave up coffee because I noticed after I drank coffee, I would get jittery and anxious and then tired and I'd want more coffee. And I thought I was allergic. Well, I came back from that trip to Tibet and I went to a place in Mountain View and I had a really high end cup of single estate coffee. And it was like the lights turned on, the angels are singing. I'm like, oh, God, I love coffee.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's crazy that you had to give it up for five years.

[Dave Asprey]

Oh, I barely remember them.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I mean, is it fair to say that a majority of the coff you're getting at a regular coffee shop is moldy?

[Dave Asprey]

I love local coffee shops, and so I don't want to pick on on anyone in particular. I will say that in the US There are no laws protecting us from mold toxins in coffee. But in Japan, China, Europe, and most of South America, there are government limits on mold toxins in coffee. And most people who don't think there's mold in coffee heard me on one of the three times I was on the Joe Rogan show. He decided to say there wasn't mold in coffee after a company he owns started directly competing with bulletproof. So there was a financial motive for that. And the evidence is very abundant. And here's how you can tell if you're getting mold in your coffee. So some of the studies say 80%, some say 90% of coffee is moldy. It might be 70%. And the degree and type of mold are also something that matters. So when you drink a cup of coffee and you have to pee right away afterwards, is your bladder full or not full? It's not full. So what system in your body is making you pee?

[Mari Llewellyn]

I guess your kidneys.

[Merrily]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

It's your kidneys and bladder. And they're doing it to protect you. Because the toxin that's most common in mold and coffee is called ochratoxin A, which is a kidney and bladder toxin.

[Mari Llewellyn]

That's what I had.

[Dave Asprey]

There you go. I had it too, in my house. Right. What that means is if you have most coffee that has OTA in it, and you drink it. Your body says, oh, my God, get it out of here. And then you pee right away, and there's like a half a cup of pee. When you drink clean coffee, it actually hydrates you, especially when there's electrolytes and minerals, like danger coffee. But it doesn't give you the pee response.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Right.

[Dave Asprey]

So if you want to monitor how much OTA you're getting or one other toxin from plants, the frequency that you need to pee is a really big variable. You should pee when your bladder's full, not have to pee before it's full. Unless you're getting rid of toxins.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Is there a difference between. I mean, this might be a dumb question, but like a cold brew, an Americano, in terms of the amount of mold.

[Dave Asprey]

No. Studies show that mold toxins don't survive the brewing process. The mold is long gone, but the poison that's left is there. Think of it that. Think of it like penicillin is there even though you're not eating the mold, where penicillin comes from. So when you do cold brew is. It limits your ability to get the. Actually, a lot of the dissolved good things in coffee. So a heat extraction of any herb is going to get more out of it. And the reason people do cold brew is because it limits some of the bitter compounds. Or you could roast the coffee properly and get higher quality coffee so you get less polyphenols that way. But there's no studies, nothing I've ever seen that says you get less mold that way. You just get less coffee nutrients. If you do an Americano or a French press with a metal filter, then you get coffee oils. And there's two camps around coffee oils. One of them says they might raise cholesterol, therefore they're bad for you. I don't worry about cholesterol unless it's oxidized because, well, that's what the science supports. There are some other variables like apob that matter that are not cholesterol, but coffee doesn't affect those. So coffee oils in multiple studies reduce inflammation in the brain. So they're plant essential oils. I drink Americanos when I'm at home almost exclusively. I would say to get the most benefits, look at French press or no paper filter methods or espresso.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay?

[Dave Asprey]

But if you're worried about cholesterol, it might be up, it might be down from that. Just paper filters reduce the soluble fiber you get from coffee. That's a prebiotic, and they take away those oils. That I think are good for you.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Back to mold cleansing. Did you do supplements, diet, all the above?

[Dave Asprey]

I'll tell you the protocol in a minute.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Give us the protocol.

[Dave Asprey]

We still have to understand what mold does.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Dave Asprey]

Okay, so we have the mold itself is a strong immune system activator. And then we have the toxins from mold. They're called mycotoxins. And the toxins from mold are very, very small fat soluble molecules. They look a lot like cholesterol. And the body can't see molecules that size. It's below the level of our immune system for most of them. So they directly poison mitochondria and they wreak havoc, depending which of the about 200 toxins there are in, in mold that really affect humans. And you can be suffering from an allergic response to mold or from mycotoxin exposure directly. And what makes it even more complex is your immune system eventually can recognize some mycotoxins and have an immune response to the compound, but not the mold. So if you want to get rid of mold, it's helpful to know what you have. In my case, I had exposure to, among many others, something called zearalenone. Have you heard of that one?

[Mari Llewellyn]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

This is my favorite mycotoxin. Because anyone who still believes in calories in, calories out, including some of my friends in the bodybuilding community who believe, you know, that a kit Kat is the same thing as an orange, because calories like you can manage your body weight that way until your biology completely breaks. Well, zearalenone is 10,000 times more estrogenic than human estrogen and it absorbs through the skin. So the dust in your house or that musty blanket, or you could breathe it. So this is one of the things I had is why I was so obese, why my testosterone was so low. Right. And in fact, why?

[Mari Llewellyn]

Because estrogen leads to weight gain or weight retention. Okay.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah. And it also leads to, you know, basically softness in your muscles. I used to have man boobs. And you know, the whole nine yard industry is not dumb. Like, what could we do with this? They concentrate that mold toxin into a little waxy pellet and you put it in an industrial beef cow's ear, it soaks in through the blood vessels there, and the cow gets fat on 30% less calories.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Oh, my God. Wait, are we eating this moldy beef?

[Dave Asprey]

I don't. I eat.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Yeah, right. But like, this is, this is what's happening to the grain fed.

[Dave Asprey]

Yeah, it's not that the, the meat itself is moldy. It's that a very potent estrogen gets added to the cow.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

And is it still present in the meat? Well, it's fat soluble and there's extra fat in the meat.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Wow.

[Dave Asprey]

But the important thing for those of us in the fitness area, if anything on the planet exists, that makes you fat on 30% less calories. Your story about calories in, calories out is bullshit. It is provably wrong. Now, might they be a variable that's worth tracking? Yes. Does it give you a license to say a Diet Coke and a Snickers bar cancel each other out because calories. No. There are other factors at play.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I have to know what your diet's like. Do you follow a carnivore diet or do you kind of like, tinker it based on what's going on?

[Dave Asprey]

My. My first big book was called the Bulletproof Diet, and people have lost a couple million pounds on it. I think it's sold about 600,000 copies now. And you see, it echoed in a lot of newer nutrition books.

[Mari Llewellyn]

They're.

[Dave Asprey]

They're on the same path. Chapter one of the book, avoid these plant toxins, including lectins, phytic acid, oxalates, histamine, and omega 6 fats. So if you're going to do keto, this is all from the bullet diet. Do keto for short periods of time, come out of it. And when you're doing keto, protein quality and fat quality matter. Right. So the whole clean keto thing, first book on that.

[Mari Llewellyn]

Okay.

[Dave Asprey]

And that's still what I do.

[Mari Llewellyn]

You're keto all the time.

[Dave Asprey]

No. Use keto as a scalpel. And I'm 6% body fat. What the hell business do I have being keto? Right. I don't want to get any leaner. I'll go in ketosis if I want to deal with a certain issue or I want to lose a little bit of weight, which isn't an issue. On a typical day when I'm not fasting, I will eat 200 grams of animal protein. And I do that because, funny enough, I weigh 200 pounds and that equation works. In my longevity book, I went through all the research saying you might want 0.6 grams of protein per pound of body weight. And they say, but as you get old, you should go up to 0.8 because you start losing muscle. But when I go to 0.6, I start losing muscle and I don't feel good. Right. So maybe some people do all right on that, but I think between 0.8 and 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight is good. Except even saying that is nonsense because have you ever heard of sarin nerve gas?

[Mari Llewellyn]

No.

[Dave Asprey]

So back in some of the very early terrorist attacks in populated cities in Japan, some terrorists made sarin nerve gas and put it on the subway. Sarin comes from beans. It's a plant based protein. Uh oh. So when plant based people tell you don't eat animal protein because this one animal protein is bad for you, we could say, but. But sarin nerve gas, you could also say snake venom is a protein. You probably don't want to eat rattlesnake venom because it has this weird spike like protein in it. So maybe the quality and type of protein is an important variable. And if you say 200 grams of protein per day, that would give you license to make me crickets. Okay. Or to make me eat soybeans, which might be worse than crickets. I don't really know. I'm not eating either one of them. So that's why I always say animal protein. Because animal protein, whatever source it is, whether it's dairy, if you're not allergic, beef, which is the best, or lamb or not as good, but still okay, chicken or eggs, right? Those are the things that actually have the amino acids that your body needs and a lot of other co factors. If you do 200 grams of those kinds of proteins, you get results. If you do 200 grams of industrial processed plant protein, you don't get the results. So the idea that calories matter lets you sell junk food. The idea that protein matters lets you sell junk protein. The reality is that it's the quality and type of protein and the availability in the body that says what works. You can eat. The way I'm talking about, which is a low toxin quality protein, quality fat, you can eat surprisingly affordably, especially if you tolerate eggs like white rice and eggs cooked in butter is cheaper than McMuffins and it's so much better for you. And if you can't afford the grass fed ground beef, then what you would do is you would get the non grass fed ground beef, which isn't as good, but it's still way better than anything else. And you can get that stuff for 99 cents a pound. If you buy it in bulk and you look around for specials, you can also go to restaurant supply stores and they will sell you ridiculously cheap things like my lamb chops, the good ones, not the shoulder chops, but the rib chops, they're $6.79 a pound.

[Mari Llewellyn]

I love that you're pointing this out because it's a comment I see over and over again. Yeah, you know, about the exclusivity of health. So I think it's important that we're transparent on that. Thank you for joining us on the Pursuit of Wellness Podcast to support this show. Please rate and review and share with your loved ones. If you want to be reminded of new episodes episodes, click the subscribe button on your preferred podcast or video player. You can sign up for my newsletter to receive my [e-mail] it will be linked in the show Notes this podcast is a Pursuit Network production brought to you by Michaela Phillips, Joel Contartes, Daviel Waldner and Mackenzie Meisel. You can also watch the full video of each episode on our YouTube channel at Pursuit of Wellness podcast. Love you po girls and po boys. I will see you next week next time. The content of this show is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not a substitute for individual medical and mental health advice and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, talk to your doctor or health team.