Epstein and the Scientists (E362)

Summary

QAA Podcast E362: "Epstein and the Scientists" – Detailed Episode Summary

Podcast: QAA Podcast
Episode: Epstein and the Scientists (E362)
Date: March 6, 2026
Hosts: Jake Rockatansky, Travis View, Jack LaRoche, Liv Aycar

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Jeffrey Epstein’s meticulously cultivated reputation as a science philanthropist, unveiling how he used scientific influence to launder his public persona, fund controversial projects, and embed himself within elite academic communities. The hosts examine newly released Epstein files, focusing on his relationships with scientists, his funding of eugenics and transhumanism, and the ripple effects into both mainstream and fringe culture today. The team also scrutinizes how conspiracy theories—especially those around Pizzagate, Frazzledrip, and transgender science—intersect with genuine evidence of elite malfeasance, misinformation, and modern online outrage.

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1. Epstein’s “Science Philanthropy” as Reputation Laundering

• Background:
  • Epstein was notorious not just as a financier and sexual predator, but for cultivating his image through associations with high-profile scientists, funding research, and hosting elite gatherings.
  • Jack references a 2019 episode ("Jeffrey Epstein and the Real Pizzagate," Ep. 28) that first touched on this theme. ([00:48])
  • Epstein’s connections with elite academics and Ivy League institutions were, in part, a strategic move to legitimize himself.
  • New evidence from the recently released Epstein files sheds more light on both the extent and intent of Epstein’s involvement in the scientific world. ([00:47])

“That interest in science serves a reputational strategy. Proximity to elite scientists and universities lent Epstein status and credibility.” – Jack LaRoche ([00:47])

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2. Conspiracy Convergence in Congress: Pizzagate & Frazzledrip

• Congressional Testimony:
  • Bill and Hillary Clinton were questioned behind closed doors as part of the congressional investigation into Epstein.
  • Lauren Boebert (now recognized as the "most pilled" Congress member) questioned Hillary Clinton about Pizzagate, asking if she had reviewed Epstein files for code words like “pizza.”
  • Clinton responded with exasperation, reiterating that Pizzagate was entirely fabricated, and referred to the real-world harm the conspiracy caused. ([08:22])

“Pizzagate was totally made up. It was an outrageous allegation that ended up hurting a number of people that caused a deranged young man to show up with his assault rifle and shoot up a local pizzeria. I can't believe you're even referencing it.” – Jake (as Hillary Clinton), ([08:22])

• Boebert’s Frazzledrip Question:
  • Boebert also asked about the mythic urban legend Frazzledrip video, leading to a chaotic moment in the deposition.
  • The hosts note how these congressional moments mark a shift, where conspiracy theories once considered fringe now lose potency by being aired in official venues. ([10:31-12:18])

“This really is, like, the dream of QAnon followers...You have Hillary Clinton here under oath in a deposition, and you get to, like, ask them about Frazzledrip and Pizzagate, but it just didn't really go as well as, like, I think Boebert might have hoped.” – Jack LaRoche ([11:05])

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3. The Swamp of Misinformation: The “Epstein Won the Lottery” Meme

• Origin of the Claim:
  • The myth that Epstein won the lottery and laundered money through the “Zorro Trust” is debunked.
  • Jack points out that the actual lottery winner was a grocery store employee using a trust for anonymity, a routine legal practice, not a nefarious scheme. ([16:22])

“...the anonymous winner worked in a grocery store across the street from the convenience store where the winning ticket was sold. She decided to use the same name for her trust that Epstein did...” – Jack LaRoche ([16:22])

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4. Eugenics, Transhumanism & Epstein’s Scientific Obsessions

a. The Sperm Bank Model & Designer Babies

• Epstein was inspired by the "Repository for Germinal Choice"—a eugenics-driven sperm bank aiming for “the brightest and healthiest babies,” with donors targeted from the Nobel laureate population.
• He intended to create a modern variant, using his Zorro Ranch as the site for mass insemination projects to "seed the human race" with his DNA. ([18:58-20:03])

“Mr. Epstein's goal was to have 20 women at a time impregnated at his 33,000 square foot Zorro ranch...” – Jake, quoting NY Times ([19:17])

• Cryonics:
  • Epstein wanted his head and penis cryogenically frozen, apparently skipping his testicles, with hosts riffing on the absurdity. ([21:26-22:55])

b. Beef Jerky, Carnivorism & Medical Eccentricities

• Emails demonstrate Epstein’s health-obsessed quirks and oddities, such as a brief obsession with beef jerky as part of a carnivore diet fad.
• Theorizing abounded online that his chef, from a restaurant called Cannibal, was making jerky from human flesh—an urban legend the hosts debunk as an extension of conspiracy mentality. ([23:57-25:41])

c. Epstein’s Influence on Transhumanism & A.I.

• He directly funded the World Transhumanist Association/humanity+, supporting Ben Goertzel, creator of the AI robot Sophia.
• Major donations to Harvard ($9.8 million), especially the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics (PED) under Professor Martin Nowak; also left money in trusts even after his death.
• Epstein’s relationship with George Church (Harvard scientist, proponent of human cloning and de-extinction) features prominently.
• George Church’s ideas on cloning Neanderthals are quoted, reflecting both technical possibility and a cavalier attitude toward ethics. ([36:33-39:06])

“...The prerequisite would of course be that human cloning is acceptable in society.” – George Church ([39:06])

d. From Jurassic Park to Designer Pigs

• Epstein hosted Jack Horner (Jurassic Park adviser and controversial paleontologist) for fossil hunting at Zorro Ranch but also fixated on subjects like blue eyes (“smart list”), genetically modifying animals, and “horny virus” research with Nathan Wolfe.
• Projects included gene-editing for cosmetic effect and attempts to breed kosher pigs (without cloven hooves). ([43:07-45:34])

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5. The Impact of Science-Driven Eugenicist Ideology on Culture

• Epstein’s misogynistic, eugenicist, and body-obsessed worldviews echo in “looksmaxxing” discourse and the idea of selective breeding—trends reflected in parts of online fitness, traditionalist, and incel subcultures today. ([46:03])

“…his influence on modern culture is worryingly clear. Echoes of his conversations about physical fitness, diet, and musings as to why women deign to live after childbearing age can be seen throughout modern … online and off.” – Liv Aycar ([46:03])

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6. Transgender Science, Conspiracy, & Right-Wing Infowars

• Epstein & Trans Science Myths:

  • Following the file release, right-wing pundits have spun conspiracies that frame Epstein as mastermind of a supposed “trans cabal” steering gender medicine.
  • The hosts forensically analyze source documents—primarily correspondence between Epstein and evolutionary biologist Robert Trivers—debunking the scientific, ethical, and practical fallacies in these claims. ([47:19-58:06])

• Robert Trivers' Fantasies and Fetishization:

  • Trivers’ emails reveal bizarre and highly sexualized misunderstandings of transgender people, treated by both Epstein and Trivers with a fetishistic, clinical zeal.
  • Jake and the team dismantle his logic, explaining that trans healthcare has a long history predating Epstein and is characterized more by medical conservatism and gatekeeping than by reckless intervention.

“It is very simple. I will compare male to female with female to male... So many transsexual women are very attractive and easily make money, which in turn, they assert, promotes their prostitution since they have to pay hefty fees for injections every week. But they are sexually happy once you have reached manhood. Even castration does not prevent the sensation of organisms, which I assume is orgasm.” – Robert Trivers (read by Jake) ([49:40])

“There’s a combination of trans fetishization and also pedophilia—it’s like, okay, all right.” – Jake ([56:19])

Key Fact-Checking:

• The rates of transgender men and women are not as skewed as Trivers claims.
• Access to transition-related care for minors is highly restricted and tightly regulated ([54:36-56:15]).
• Right-wing framing of trans healthcare as the domain of “evil scientists” like Epstein ignores both the real histories of marginalized groups and the fact that actual harm and erasure has come from those aiming to stigmatize and control, not liberate, trans people.

Jess Ting – Surgeon’s Dark Connection

• Dr. Jess Ting, a renowned trans surgeon, had a working relationship with Epstein performing both general plastic surgery and gender affirmation surgery.
• Emails confirm he performed cosmetic procedures on Epstein’s victims, and later, he became influential in trans healthcare—highlighting the difference between medical provider motivations and actual transgender communities. ([59:21-61:53])

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7. Who Gets Believed: Epstein, the Media, and Trans Victims

• The show closes by highlighting the case of Ava Cordero—a Latina trans woman who was sexually abused by Epstein at 16, and then discredited and smeared by the press when she sought accountability in court ([63:25-65:10]).
• This illustrates how right-wing panic and media narratives erase the experiences of real survivors in favor of sensationalist conspiracies.

“If there’s an alliance here, it’s between certain clinicians and doctors, those like Epstein, and the far right conspiracy theorists who push an ideology that ensures trans women are powerless and discredited.” – Jake ([66:05])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Information Overload:

  • “I was watching an episode of Voyager… Seven of Nine got pilled and it was essentially a 9/11 conspiracy episode two years before 9/11. And the big hook was she had ingested too much information. So she was finding connections where connections didn’t exist because there was just too much in her mind. And I feel like with the 3 million plus documents…that’s a lot of what’s happening to people now.” – Liv Aycar ([04:17])

• On Washed Out Conspiracies:

  • “QAnon’s kind of washed now. It’s weird. Like, people kind of don’t care as much about the OG, like… spiritually it’s everything, but the actual content itself is a lot less big than it used to be.” – Jake ([11:51])

• Surreal, Disturbing Science Scenes:

  • “He wanted to be like… Immortan Joe on a bigger scale.” – Jack LaRoche ([20:03])

  • “There is a series of emails between him and Nathan Wolfe talking about a horny virus that could get college students to fuck more.” – Liv Aycar ([45:14])

• On Medical Gatekeeping:

  • “Trans healthcare… was constructed by a cadre of clinicians who put extensive gatekeeping methods… out of fear they might get sued by patients who would later regret the changes. Solidifying requirements such as a real life test…” – Jake ([62:15])

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8. Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:47] – Epstein as science philanthropist: strategy and early coverage
• [01:47 – 08:49] – Clinton testimonies, Boebert’s Pizzagate & Frazzledrip questions
• [13:46] – Epstein Zorro Trust/lawsuit & lottery myth debunked
• [18:58 – 23:57] – Sperm bank inspirations, eugenics, and immortality obsessions
• [23:57 – 25:41] – The beef jerky email intrigue
• [29:20 – 34:34] – De-extinction, George R.R. Martin’s involvement, and the scientific reality
• [36:33 – 40:34] – George Church on cloning, Neanderthal baby plan
• [43:07 – 46:38] – Jack Horner, Jurassic Park, and designer animal tangents
• [47:19 – 58:06] – Transgender science conspiracies; Trivers emails dissected
• [59:21] – Jess Ting’s dual role: plastic surgeon for Epstein and key figure in trans surgery
• [63:25 – 66:05] – Ava Cordero: the ignored survivor
• [66:50] – Reflections on systemic marginalization and need for collective awareness

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Conclusion

Tone & Takeaways:
The episode is at once darkly comic and deeply disturbing—riffing on the tragic absurdities of the elite, while methodically debunking false narratives that muddy public understanding of both high-profile scandals and real scientific issues. The QAA team urge listeners to discern between genuine corruption and meme conspiracy, pointing to the real victims left behind and the enduring cultural influence of unchecked, billionaire-driven science.

“It’s a very heavy note to end it on, but if there is a place to put that heavy note, it’s probably here.” – Jake ([66:05])

Further Resources:

• Cursemedia.net (including Liv’s “Science in Transition” series)
• QAA’s premium content at Patreon.com/qaa

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Transcript

[Jake Rockatansky]

Sa.

[Travis View]

If you're hearing this, well done. You found a way to connect to the Internet. Welcome to the qaa podcast, episode 362, Epstein and the Scientists. As always, we are your hosts, Jake Rockatansky, Jack LaRoche, Liv Aycar and Travis View.

[Jack LaRoche]

It's long been known that Jeffrey Epstein cultivated a public Persona as a wealthy science philanthropist. He did this by spending time around researchers funding projects and hosting invitations. Only gatherings where big scientific questions were discuss. Jake even referenced this in a story all the way back in 2019 talking about Stephen Hawking visiting Epstein Island. Now that's episode 28, Jeffrey Epstein and the Real Pizzagate. I'm gonna put a link because I've had a lot of people asking me about this one.

[Travis View]

Well, forgive me for the story. I mean, it's 2019. We've all done a lot of growing since then.

[Jack LaRoche]

And yeah, that was a weird time when I didn't really think too many people would actually listen to the podcast.

[Travis View]

No, I thought nobody. I still kind of forget that people listen to it and say things that like I'm, you know, family and friends. Later remind me that I probably should keep private. But, you know, it is what it is.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Sometimes people ask me about stuff I say in the podcast and I pretend I don't know what they're talking about.

[Travis View]

You're like, no, you don't have a window to my soul. Okay.

[Liv Aycar]

Doesn't sound like anything to me.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Jack LaRoche]

That interest in science serves a reputational strategy. Proximity to elite scientists and universities lent Epstein status and credibility. But the recent release of the Epstein files has given us a little bit better picture of the purpose and extent of his involvement in science. So today, Jack and Liv are going to guide us through, through some of that new evidence regarding his interest in, for example, transgender science and eugenics. But before we get to that, I have to talk about how Pizzagate was referenced in congressional testimony. So both Bill and Hillary Clinton gave a closed door House oversight deposition in the Epstein investigation. And I want to say that's perfectly legitimate. I think like any comprehensive investigation into Epstein that has the opportunity to question, the Clintons ought to do so. You know, Clinton flew on Epstein's jet on trips to Asia, Africa and Europe, plus one trip from Florida to New York. Elaine Maxwell was involved with the Clinton Global Initiative and even attended Chelsea Clinton's wedding. So in these depositions, the Clintons answered questions about all that quite deftly, I would say. I say these pieces, these people are pros, right? They've been in the situation before.

[Travis View]

What's crazy is like, a couple years ago, this would have been my number one tv. I would have been like, watching Bill and Hillary Clinton for a couple hours and like, being grilled about their connections to Epstein. This is Must watch. This is Traitor's finale. You know, I couldn't care less. I haven't seen one shred of clips. That's how disconnected and like, downtrodden I am. It just. Just like how beaten into the ground. Like all of this stuff beyond conspiracy. It's like there is the heart of the conspiracy world. That of course is like the center of everything. But then there's all these horrific actions that are taking place, like, out in the Middle east and all the world, like, by people that like, whether they believe in the conspiracy or not doesn't even. It doesn't even matter. Like, it. It just feels like meaningless to be sitting here asking the Clintons like that. It's like, oh, it's so 2016, you know?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, it's hyper real. Like we're all focused on like the thing that references the thing that references the thing. And like the original thing. It's like. Well, I don't know. It's kind of. Kind of been there.

[Travis View]

That's so. Yes, that's it.

[Liv Aycar]

It's just weird that I was seeing more people talking about the SNL Tourette skit that they can rather than the Clinton testimony.

[Jack LaRoche]

Yeah, I feel like that kind of thing. That' ball outrage. That's comprehensible. That's something I can hold in my mind. You know, the vastness of Epstein. I. It falls apart when I try to grasp it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Aycar]

I think that's part of the point though, is them just dumping so much information that it's impossible for people to fully comprehend it. I was watching an episode of Voyager the other night where seven of nine got pilled and it was essentially a 911 conspiracy episode two years before 9 11. And the big hook at the end was that she had ingested too much information. So she was finding connections where connections didn't exist because there was just too much in her mind. And I feel like with the 3 million plus documents that have been dumped, that's a lot of what's happening to people now.

[Travis View]

They've gotten too smart. They've read too many Epstein documents. I've only read a handful, but I'm already. I can feel my brain power growing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I mean, yeah, you think about how people in the past would have referred to the age of information. Like you have all this information at your Fingertips. And it's like, yeah, and people are much stupider. Like, so much worse.

[Travis View]

Yeah, I'm like, going to the Epstein, like, searchable database and being like, Travis, phew.

[Jack LaRoche]

But the problem with this congressional testimony, at least in part, was that there's at least one member of Congress that is so pilled that they can't stick to substantial questions. And since Marjorie Taylor Greene has resigned, the title of most pilled Congressmember goes to Representative Lauren Boebert of Colorado.

[Travis View]

Can't believe she's real.

[Jack LaRoche]

Representative Boebert asked Hillary if she reviewed the Epstein files in light of Pizzagate, presumably, I guess, asking whether those files use pizza as a code when referring to child abuse.

[Liv Aycar]

In past public statements, as in 2017 speeches and interviews, you described Pizza Gate as a baseless conspiracy theory, alleging you and others ran a child sex trafficking ring from Washington. Pizzeria. Pizzeria basement. Have you reviewed any 2025, 2026 Epstein files that were released that you believe reference or relate to those specific 2016 claims regarding the Podesta emails? Comet ping pong pizza used as code? Possibly. I'm sorry, you're asking her about whether

[Travis View]

she's reviewed emails in the Epstein files

[Jack LaRoche]

which relate to the wacky Pizzagate scam.

[Liv Aycar]

You could characterize it however you want. I just would like to know if she's familiar with any of them.

[Jake Rockatansky]

So.

[Liv Aycar]

Excuse me, your question is about whether or not she has reviewed any emails in the Epstein release files about Pizzagate? Correct.

[Travis View]

Hillary's a boss. Actually, in this clip, I gotta say, she really does look like she can't believe how dumb the world has gotten. She really is like, they're still on this. They still think that there's, like, video of me, like, eating the skin off the child. But this person's in Congress. Like, I remember sitting here eight hours, we were talking about Benghazi, and they were asking me, and look, there's some serious stuff, but they're asking me about pizza. And the co. Like, you could see in her face, like, how, like, almost like disassociating this whole experience is. So I'm glad I actually didn't watch this. This testimony. I think this actually would have made me, like, very, like, just upset and broken.

[Jack LaRoche]

Actually, I'm really curious what she thinks the purpose of this question was. Did she think that, like, Hillary Clinton was like, oh, man, did any of the pizza code words I use make it into the Epstein files? And then you're reading all the Epstein files to make sure to just get ahead of that. I Mean, I. Is that what. Imagine what, you know, Boebert imagines happened?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. Honestly, I think that she's like, I got you. I, you know, they might not understand how you're relating to the Epstein files, but I understand, like, I have an intimate insight into your mind.

[Travis View]

I honestly think Boebert thinks that she's like, yes. And have you reviewed any of the words containing to pizza and that Hillary Clinton, like, rips off a mask and it's like a mantis creature. She's, like, tries to run out of them, you know, Like, I think she thinks that, you know, she's going to catch her in some kind of. Or it's just for the clip. It's just for the clip. And she knows that whatever reaction is going to be is going to go viral because, you know, she doesn't care what the answer is.

[Jack LaRoche]

Now, Clinton responded by expressing exasperation that she was even being asked about it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Pizzagate was totally made up. It was an outrageous allegation that ended up hurting a number of people that caused a deranged young man to show up with his assault rifle and shoot up a local pizzeria. I can't believe you're even referencing it. You should be there.

[Liv Aycar]

There are connections to the language. Well, the QAnon people believe there are, so I don't know what QAnon people believe.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Have at it.

[Jack LaRoche]

So I think she's referring to that. The fact that some people have found the references to pizza and in some cases, like, grape soda in the Epstein files, and they think that this relates to Pizzagate. But, like, in context, it's. I don't know. It's not really that bad.

[Travis View]

Do you guys think Hillary Clinton's listened to this podcast?

[Jake Rockatansky]

I don't think about. I don't.

[Jack LaRoche]

I want to think about.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I would, like.

[Jack LaRoche]

No, I don't think so.

[Travis View]

Hey, it's like here, it's like, all this QAnon stuff is crazy. If you're curious to learn more, there's this pretty funny podcast. It's a little bit crass, but you might. It's a little bit crass, but they do have good information on what these wackos believe. I'll check it out.

[Liv Aycar]

She looks so fucking done with everything.

[Jack LaRoche]

I mean, you know what? Rachel Maddow listens, so maybe imagine Hillary Clinton.

[Travis View]

What if she got to the episode where I. The horror story about Moloch living in her basement? I think Hillary would be able to see the satire in that. And also, I did give her a fair book review on what happened. We can. We can go on, please.

[Jack LaRoche]

What has been less reported on? It's like, lots of stories mentioned this Pizzagate reference, but what's been less reported on is the fact that Bobert also asked Hillary Clinton about the mythical Frazzle Drip video. So longtime listeners of the show will know that Frazzle drip in the QAnon universe is a horrifying snuff video that supposedly depicts Hillary Clinton and in some versions of the legend, Human Abedin torturing and killing a child. Now, in true fashion of urban legends, there are many stories of people watching the video, and they talk about how traumatized they are, but there's. It doesn't exist. It's made up. After Boebert asked this question, Clinton's lawyers ask whether this question is within the scope of the deposition and then resolve this off the record. So there's a little chaotic near the end of the clip.

[Liv Aycar]

Are you aware of any files that were on Anthony Weiner's laptop in a

[Jack LaRoche]

folder that was titled in insurance, Life

[Liv Aycar]

insurance, with a zip file titled Frazzle Chairman's ruling.

[Jack LaRoche]

This is way out.

[Liv Aycar]

Is this within the scope, Mr. Chairman?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, she just. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I do think that she is living in her own. Like, she's living in hell, and she does completely deserve it. Like, she deserves all of this. She deserves so much worse than this.

[Travis View]

So, yeah, it's.

[Jack LaRoche]

It is funny, but, like, this really is like, like, the dream of, like, QAnon fallers. You have Hillary Clint here under oath in a deposition, and you get to, like, ask them about Frazzle Drip and Pizzagate, but it just didn't really go as well as, like, I think Boebert might have hoped.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I think she expected Hillary to just, like, be shaking in her boots. It's like, oh, she's a lizard. You're reptile. She can't lie or something. You know, it was like, well, no, she's been asked. She's been a politician for long enough. Even if she's. She might not be the best politician, particularly, like, she can handle these sort of things.

[Travis View]

They're like, look, she blinked sideways.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Travis View]

Like there's gas escaping from her neck.

[Liv Aycar]

Look. I'm amazed that there hasn't been more discussion of this. Just like, X hasn't totally blown up with the fact that this was even referenced.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, Kyuno's kind of washed now. It's weird. Like, people kind of don't care as much about the OG like, it spiritually is everything, but then, like, the actual content itself is, like, a lot bigger. A lot less big than it used to be.

[Jack LaRoche]

I don't know. I think. Yeah. I think QAnon and Pizzagate, live conspiracist movements they serve, thrive on being the underdog. Like, when you actually have members of Congress who are pilled and asking it frazzled rip, it kind of loses its luster a little bit.

[Liv Aycar]

Maybe they're just holding up for the public execution. That'll come in a few weeks.

[Travis View]

You know what's weird is it almost feels more pretend when it's real than how real it feels when it's pretend. You know what I mean? Like, Lauren Boebert up there. You know, you can kind of hear her during the thing. Well, you know, Hillary Clinton Cherry, you know, says, well, you know, that's what the QAnon people think. And hear Lauren Boebert go, like, well, I don't know what the QAnon people think. And it's like, imagine you're low and Lauren Boebert and you're saying out loud, I don't know what the QAnon people think. Yeah, you know, that's. It's just like a. It's just like a. Very funny. Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I don't know.

[Travis View]

There is something. There is something kind of washed about, you know, washed about it. Like, if Lauren Boebert was really worth her salt, like, you know, she would say, well, maybe they're right. You know, maybe the QAnon people are right. You know, people should look into whatever. I don't know anything other than, like, oh, I don't know what they think.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Aycar]

Do you think that some of it is how embarrassing it is to, like, be in a professional deposition and hear the word frazzle drip said out loud? Like, there has to be some kind of embarrassment you're feeling when you're saying that in that sort of a setting.

[Travis View]

Yeah. Even the energy and the audio. Because I was just kind of, like, looking at my audition file. Like, I wasn't. I was just listening to the audio. And you can feel the, like, energy in the room. Like, the moment she says frazzle. It's like the whole world goes. That's too far. You know, you. Wait a minute. Come on. For real.

[Jack LaRoche]

Now. I also want to mention there. There's lots of nonsense being floated about the contents of the Epstein files, which is, you know, unsurprising because, you know, this is. This is something with. Whenever there is real substantial elite corruption being discussed and uncovered, it always paired with a lot of conspiratorial nonsense. For example, have you heard of this one? That Jim Jeffrey Epstein won the lottery and then collected it through a secret trust.

[Travis View]

Yes, heard that.

[Jack LaRoche]

So, yeah, it's actually. This claim has actually been kind of been floating around like, kind of like a low level for a couple years, but it just exploded. It got popular again with the recent release of the Epstein files. So this claim stems from the fact that in 2008, a legal trust called the Zorro Trust, like, won a Powerball jackpot from a ticket sold in Altus, Oklahoma, and took about $29.3 million after taxes from an advert, $85 million jackpot. Now, Epstein did have an entity called Zorro Trust tied to his New Mexico properties, and he began serving his Florida sentence on June 30, 2008, just before that lottery drawing on July 2. So this lottery happened to happen right before he started serving his criminal sentence. So that timing, plus the shared trust name makes the story look pretty sinister at first glance. You know, even Marjorie Taylor Greene got in on the action of this. This claim.

[Travis View]

Epstein won the lottery, $80 million went to Zorro Trust for Epstein's Zorro Ranch. Nope, not random at all. Do you think anyone will be held accountable? Question mark, question mark, question mark? She's, quote, tweeting an account called Lord Bebo.

[Liv Aycar]

Very trustworthy.

[Travis View]

Very trustworthy name.

[Jack LaRoche]

Yes.

[Travis View]

Anybody who's any kind of royalty online, I tend to sort of of, you know, think that they're not lying to me.

[Liv Aycar]

Isn't that the name of one of your Labubus?

[Travis View]

Yeah, Lord Bebo.

[Jack LaRoche]

Now, there are lots of reasons I didn't find this one credible when I looked into it. I think one big one is that sort of the partial information about the identity of the winner was reported on when the jackpot was won all the way back in 2008. So the Oklahoma City newspaper, the Oklahoman, did some digging and discovered that the anonymous winner worked in a grocery store across the street from the convenience store where the winning ticket was sold. And apparently she decided to use the same name for her trust that Epstein did, which is, you know, good practice. If you. If you win a lottery and you have the ability to collect it anonymously through a trust, this is, you know, this is considered best practice financially. And so this is from that 2008 report in the Oklahoman.

[Liv Aycar]

The winner is a woman who worked evenings at United Supermarket in Altus. The store's meat department manager confirmed Larry Cox declined to provide his former coworker's name, saying the woman had requested anonymity. But if you had to pick someone in town to win it. She'd be the one I'd pick, cox said. It was just meant to be, I guess, he said. The grocery store at 600 East Broadway is less than a block from the Stripes convenience store that sold the winning ticket.

[Jack LaRoche]

So yeah, contemporaneous reporting had a co worker of the winner on record saying that it saved, you know, it was a grocery store employee. So I don't think there's anything to

[Liv Aycar]

this Epstein's weird science in 1980, Robert Clark Graham, the inventor of shatterproof plastic eyeglass lenses, opened a sperm bank in Escondido, California. The repository for germinal choice would close in 1999, but not before building quite a reputation. This exclusive sperm bank opened with the full intention of producing only the brightest head healthiest babies in the world. In fact, it intended to receive sperm donations solely from Nobel laureates. Unsurprisingly, the only Nobel laureate known to have donated to the sperm bank was the ardent eugenicist William Shockley. While the repository for Germinal choice ended up accepting donations from non laureates out of necessity, it was said that they recruited men who were scientists and academics whom they considered the future future Nobel laureates. Rumors abounded that women who received sperm from the bank had to be members of mensa, which to no one's surprise, was not actually true. According to Slate, however, women were refused for reasons such as being on lithium, being obese or having diabetes. It's unknown what happened to the repository's records after it was shut down. It's also unknown how many of the approximately 217 children who were born from these donations fit the eugenicist ideals that Graham had in mind. The legacy of the Repository for Germinal Choice is questionable, but even stranger now that we know how deeply it inspired Jeffrey Epstein and his goals for the future. While journalists and bakers alike have been scrutinizing Jeffrey Epstein's relationships with politicians and actors, his connection to prominent scientists, including scientific publications, has been largely overlooked. What I'd like to shine some light on is how a dead pedophile with an obsession with immortality and eugenics is connected to the rise of our looks obsessed and trad wife cultures. In 1993, Epstein purchased Zorro Ranch in New Mexico. In a 2019 article that somehow was not in Weekly World News titled Jeffrey Epstein Hoped to seed human race with his DNA, the New York Times detailed some of his long term life goals he enthusiastically shared with party guests. As early as 2001, Mr. Epstein told

[Jake Rockatansky]

scientists and businessmen about his ambition to use his New Mexico ranch as a base where women would be inseminated with his sperm and would give birth to his babies. It was not a secret. The idea struck all three as far fetched and disturbing. There is no indication that it would have been against the law. Once, at a dinner at Mr. Epstein's mansion on Manhattan's Upper East Side, Mr. Lanier said he talked to a scientist who told him that Mr. Epstein's goal was to have 20 women at a time impregnated at his 33,000 square foot Zorro ranch in a tiny town outside Santa Fe. Mr. Lanier said the scientist identified herself as working at NASA, but he did not remember her name. Mr. Lanier, the virtual reality creator and author, said he had the impression that Mr. Epstein was using the dinner parties where some guests were attractive women with impressive academic credentials to screen candidates to bear Mr. Epstein's children.

[Jack LaRoche]

So he wanted to be like, all these people, they fantasize about being Immortan Joe?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Basically, yeah.

[Jack LaRoche]

Like on a bigger scale.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Travis View]

Have I ever told you guys a story I hung out with? I think I've told this story like a billion times. See this? If Julian was here, he would be like, no, Jake, you told this like four times. He's. He has a specific memory for the number of times I've repeated. I've repeated myself on the show. But I hung out with the director of Lawnmower man once randomly. It was just like a random thing. And he told me that he had like. Like after Lawnmower man came out, all of these, like, billionaires, like, were. Were like, inviting him out to like, party with them and like, to his island because they thought he had kind of like, cracked the code of like, what was or like, sort of been able to visualize what was next and like, the entertainment. And he was like, the craziest thing. He's like, all these guys are doing is like, trying to live forever. He did like a ketamine drip with like, Rupert Murdoch or some crazy, like, crazy shit, and basically said that, like, all of these billionaires, basically, they've conquered everything else and the final frontier is death. So guys like Robert Bigelow bought Skinwalker Ranch, like, you know, just trying to figure out, like, immortality.

[Liv Aycar]

Isn't Rupert Murdoch the worst person to do a ketamine trip?

[Travis View]

Yeah, it would be. Yeah. I can't remember, but it was like some horrible person. It was like some horrible, like, corporate billionaire who was like, you know, doing ketamine to expand his mind.

[Liv Aycar]

Just go deep in the K hole with Rupert Murdoch and see if you emerge with your mortality intact. From what I could piece together based on the latest files, Epstein's interests in eugenics began with simple transhumanism. He told many individuals that he planned to have his head and penis cryogenically frozen with hopes of at least one of those heads being capable of being revived as medical science advanced.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Two most important body parts, obviously you can't go without those.

[Liv Aycar]

So the one thing that I was questioning with this is that they just said he was getting his penis cryogenically frozen. Not the testicles. So just the dick.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Aycar]

Which I think is kind of missing the point of like trying to seed your own human race. But he can.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Priest and sperm. We know how to do that one. That one's not a.

[Travis View]

That's really funny. He was like signing the papers and he was like, yes. And the penis. Yes. For a period no shorter than 1 billion years. They're like, and what about the, and the testes?

[Liv Aycar]

And he was like, no, just dump those in the garbage can.

[Travis View]

He was like, no. They were like, that'll be, it'll be an extra, it's an extra fee. And he's like, he's like, well, could you attach, potentially attach the penis to different testes of the future? And they were like, oh yeah, you know, that should be doable. And he was like, we'll, we'll forego like when you're at Enterprise and you're like, eh, you know what? I'm not gonna do the ext. Extra. The extra insurance. He just like, for. He just like didn't check the testes box.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah.

[Jack LaRoche]

Imagine being like, yeah. The scientists like hundreds of years in the future trying experiment after experiment trying to figure out how to perfectly recreate Epstein's lab grown testicles.

[Liv Aycar]

It's like he's just one day after the two for one deal. So he just didn't want to take it.

[Travis View]

Oh my God.

[Liv Aycar]

At the very least, he hoped that his superior genetic material would be able to help the world. World records show that he had also frozen his sperm, likely due to ongoing concerns regarding his chronic low testosterone levels. He consulted often with the longevity obsessed former CBS News contributor who only recently resigned, Peter Attiah, about how to improve this condition, as well as just about all other aspects of his ailing health. One of the weirder aspects of Epstein's health kick, which has caused a good deal of conjecture, was his obsession with beef jerky. Over 360 emails are in the files that reference jerky in strange ways, such as this email from August 17, 2012.

[Travis View]

Jeff, old saying. Dog ate my homework. Well, my dog ate the beef jerky. Oh. Oh, no.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay.

[Travis View]

All right. I was looking for the beef jerky as I knew it was in my suitcase and then thought maybe I left it at the beach only to find the small plastic bag near my dog's bed. Hence, no beef jerky.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Beef jerky without space, by the way, makes it much funnier.

[Travis View]

Yeah, no beef jerky. I'll email Francis to make us some more as I need 6 to 8 ounces to send to the lab. And I'll forward Francis the info to send to the lab directly. I'll try you later today. Steven Hanson, human eater. Steven. Stephen, My favorite part to eat is the thighs. Hanson.

[Liv Aycar]

So emails like this raised a lot of eyebrows. And with Epstein employing a chef, the aforementioned Francis, from a trendy Hell's Kitchen carnivore restaurant called Cannibal, it was only natural that people began assuming the jerky in question was made of human flesh, particularly human thighs, as Jake mentioned. Frankly, the emails make more sense as a health craze that lines up with the rise of carnivore diets. With Epstein looking to improve his health through this dietary change, the jerky obsession only lasted a year before his dietary preferences changed to other things and the Cannibal chef was let go. Of course, that didn't mean that Epstein was comfortable with carbohydrates returning to his diet. Luckily for him, Attia confirmed in an email that pussy is indeed low carb.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, awesome.

[Jack LaRoche]

Jesus.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Happy to hear that.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah, you know, it's important information.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, they do Talk like fucking 20 year old frat bros. Yeah, they're so

[Travis View]

fucking like, my brother has this like, theory that like whatever age you get rich at, like, you freeze your, like maturity basically just like freezes. So that's why you have all these like, kind of like crazy like child star stories and all this stuff. Except for my man Macaulay. What a king. Anyways, I hope he's listening. Listening.

[Liv Aycar]

So Epstein's intense interest in longevity and genetics led to his funding of the World Transhumanist association, now obnoxiously known as humanity. Plus I'm sure through his Jeffrey Epstein foundation from 2001 to 2017, the bulk of this funding went directly to its founder, Ben Goertzel, creator of the Borg Queen esque hyper realistic robot Sophia, who somehow holds Saudi Arabian citizenship. Oh yeah.

[Travis View]

The sentences that you've said, Jack, during this segment are wild.

[Jake Rockatansky]

There's so many new sentences.

[Travis View]

There's so many crazy Sentences, you're like. Even the first sentence you said was crazy.

[Liv Aycar]

It gets crazier. Somehow. I don't know how I survived going into these emails for as long as I did. Goertzel primarily put the funding he got from Epstein to use for AGI, Artificial General Intelligence development. So, yes, as said before, Epstein is at least partially responsible for our current AI nightmare. Epstein's deep connections with and influence on the scientific community are perhaps best shown through his long standing relationship with Harvard. Between 1998 and 2008, Harvard received $9.8 million in gifts from Epstein, primarily for use in research and faculty activities. 2003 was his largest donation year when he gave a $6.5 million gift to establish the evolutionary dynamics led by Professor Martin Nowak, which is nicely turned into an acronym, PED. Coincidentally, after Epstein's suicide, $5 million was left in Martin's trust. To put into perspective how close Martin Nowak's relationship with Epstein and his network was, take the following email to Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Travis View]

Dear Ghislaine, many thanks again for your amazing hospitality. I am so very sorry I caused you so much worry and that I spoiled this day. I am so happy that I did not kill anybody. My perspective of life has changed somehow. Lots of love, Martin.

[Jack LaRoche]

What the hell?

[Liv Aycar]

That was my reaction reading it.

[Jack LaRoche]

It was like, wait. It's like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, boy. Wish we had some more details on this.

[Travis View]

These emails are fucking insane. We're gonna be poring over these for like the next like half century of just people being like, hey, Jeff, like, did the woman live? If not. Okay, talk soon.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Great.

[Liv Aycar]

So many emails are bas to that, but they have about 10 spelling errors within one sentence.

[Travis View]

Somehow they're like, there's still a couple bones floating around in the acid tub. Want me to like, want me to dispose or. Good to say for now. And Jeff's like, don't care. Have you seen New Jurassic Park?

[Liv Aycar]

So the Program for Evolutionary Dynamics did an AMA on Reddit nine years ago for Darwin did day. It's astonishing to look back and see the names of so many people so closely associated with Epstein replying to questions. The information contained within the AMA is not the most incriminating, but it does line up well with some of the interests that Epstein had shown in the past.

[Jake Rockatansky]

For instance, there's a question from a deleted. Is it possible for any non hominid Earth species to eventually advance to a level of ability and cooperative skill similar to modern humans? How would two advanced species interact on one planet. If they were at a similar level of technological advancement, intelligence, or cooperative skill

[Jack LaRoche]

as each other, then the response from evolution researchers on Harvard University says, in the past, we humans have prevented that. Sadly, we have eliminated competing hominid species. In the future, we might build biobots that are cooperative and highly intelligent.

[Liv Aycar]

Which doesn't answer the question at all.

[Travis View]

Sadly, we've exterminated them. But. But we could build a race of slave robots in the future.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's about the same. That's probably similar.

[Liv Aycar]

Sophia has entered the chat. So the Epstein funded program for Evolutionary Dynamics was shut down in 2021 in light of information coming out regarding who founded the fucking thing. Nowak was suspended from supervising undergraduate research, but still maintained his position at Harvard.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's good. No interaction with under 22s for two

[Liv Aycar]

years because in 2023 his suspension was L. Oh, sure, okay, never mind.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It'll be fine.

[Liv Aycar]

The connection with Harvard, however, ran even deeper. It is uncertain when Jeffrey Epstein first came into contact with another prominent Harvard professor, George Church. Some reports state it happened as early as 2001, while others align more with a 2011-2012 timeline. Personally, at this time, I would split the difference based upon this email to Epstein from Howard Gardner, the Harvard Graduate School of Education professor of Cognition and Education.

[Jack LaRoche]

Hi Jeffrey, I am very glad that I had chance to see you last Thursday. I ran into George Church as I left and was able to take his cab to the airport. Good timing. I'm happy to respond to your simple requests for a reading list and advice about offsprings. I'm taking some notes and will write to you soon. Meanwhile, take a deep breath, take one day at a time and you'll get through the coming period fine. With all good wishes, Howard Gardner.

[Liv Aycar]

So the coming period that's being referenced there is Jeffrey Epstein being in jail in Florida. The reading list did indeed come after.

[Jake Rockatansky]

After.

[Travis View]

Ah yes, the coming period of your imprisonment.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, for solicitation of child prostitution.

[Liv Aycar]

Like I have no idea what the advice about offsprings is here.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, so.

[Jack LaRoche]

My God. Yeah, hey, don't worry. Just. Just beat up the first guy you see and I'll take care of all of your weird genetic things that you're asking about.

[Travis View]

Advice about offsprings. He's like Jeff's. Jeffrey Epstein is like, I got like three kids that I need to kill. Like, do you know, like best way best practices.

[Liv Aycar]

So Church appears in the emails in 2012 around the same time that his book How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves was published and he began pushing for de Extinction in his public appearances. De Extinction has been making a lot of headlines lately, thanks to Colossal Biosciences, one of the many companies George Church founded. Think of the brief uproar about transgenic mice. Cute critters with curly red fur that far right news outlets claimed were transsexual. I don't know if you had to answer questions about those, Liv, but I sure had to.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Also, like, it's pretty easy to make a mouse transsexual. Like, we didn't really need. We could do that literally in the 1860s, like they were. It's really. It's not a new development.

[Liv Aycar]

Or consider the photo of that frequent writer of incest, massive age gap relationships and breast milk fetish content, George R.R. martin holding a purported dire wolf pup to celebrate its de extinction.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's my goat.

[Liv Aycar]

By the way, George R.R. martin is a board member at Colossal, in spite of his complete lack of environmental or scientific credentials.

[Travis View]

I love it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You have to understand that he wrote a very good book series that is a. An analogy for global warming.

[Travis View]

I love that people on boards are just like fans. And so they're like, can we get them on the board so we can like, I don't know, have bagels or something with them? That would be so cool.

[Liv Aycar]

That also is why the de extinction. The de extincted direwolves look the way they do because they're just all massive Game of Thrones fans. Actual direwolves had red fur. We're a completely different species to gray we wolves. But anyway, if those two news items don't ring a bell, then perhaps you've been following their recent announcements regarding bringing back the giant moa in New Zealand or the dodo bird in Mauritius. Colossal Biosciences is not the only company dedicated to this notion of de extinction, but they undeniably have the best PR. In part thanks to George R.R. martin. The idea that we have brought and can bring extinct species back to life is an exciting one. It's much easier to grab headlines with that than to explain how the genetic material of an extreme extinct species is being injected into an embryo to create a new hybrid creature. A gray wolf with some dire wolf in it doesn't have quite the same ring to it, especially when you consider that gray wolves and dire wolves were barely related to begin with.

[Jack LaRoche]

Yeah, something else I read is that like the half life of DNA is like 500 something years, meaning that like, it degrades by half in just 500 some odd years. So this, this fantasy that species thousands of years ago can possibly Be revived is not conceivably true because it's hamp by just chemical realities.

[Travis View]

Yes, that's disappointing.

[Liv Aycar]

There are people who disagree with that to a degree. Mary Schweitzer in particular has some interesting findings that are still being developed. But on the surface right now, you are 100% correct. So other companies have arguably done more for technologically assisted conservation than Colossal Biosciences Revive and Restore succeeded not only in cloning a black footed ferret with implanted genetic material from a now deceased black footed ferret, but as of 2025, that cloned ferret has had three successful litters, thus increasing the biodiversity of this critically endangered species. So thanks to this, we now have eight genetically distinct ferrets out there that are founding the new species.

[Travis View]

Have any of you guys ever owned a ferret or had a friend who had a ferret?

[Liv Aycar]

I have had friends and I love them.

[Travis View]

Yeah, they're really. They can slide under doors, which is crazy. Ferrets can get so flat. They also only poop in corn and. Which is very interesting.

[Liv Aycar]

If only dogs were like that.

[Travis View]

Yeah. Teddy escaped yesterday. It's his first escape in four. In four years. He. He got out to the front. We caught him though.

[Liv Aycar]

I thought we were gonna have to have a manhunt for Teddy there.

[Travis View]

I know. He was like. He was like, I've turned 15 and it's time to go free.

[Liv Aycar]

Sail Away starts playing is.

[Travis View]

Yeah.

[Liv Aycar]

So George Church seems less interested in conservation than he is in spectacle and eugenics. In an interview with Der Spiegel shortly after the release of Regenesis, right around the time he was beginning to meet with Epstein in person, he detailed his interest in human cloning. So this is a snippet from an interview.

[Jack LaRoche]

Mr. Church, you predict that it will soon be possible to clone Neanderthals. What do you mean by soon? Will you witness the birth of a Neanderthal baby in your lifetime?

[Travis View]

I think so, but boy, there are a lot of parts to this. The reason I would consider it a possibility is that a bunch of technologies are developing faster than ever before. In particular, reading and writing. DNA is now about a million times faster than seven or eight years ago. Another technology that the de extinction of a Neanderthal would require is human cloning. We could clone all kinds of mammals, so it's very likely that we could clone a human. Why shouldn't we be able to do this?

[Jack LaRoche]

So perhaps because it is banned.

[Travis View]

That may be true in Germany, but it's not banned all over the world. And laws can change by the way.

[Liv Aycar]

Jesus Christ.

[Jack LaRoche]

No, like, oh, we just do outside that jurisdiction. Don't worry, we've thought about that.

[Travis View]

Don't worry.

[Jack LaRoche]

Goes on. Setting aside all ethical doubts, do you believe it is technically possible to reproduce the Neanderthal?

[Travis View]

The first thing you have to do is to sequence the Neanderthal genome. And that has actually been done. The next step would be to chop this genome up into say 10,000 chunks and then synthesize these. Finally, you would introduce these chunks into a human stem cell. If we do that often enough, then we would generate a stem cell line that would get closer and closer to the corresponding sequence of the Neanderthal. We developed the semi automated procedure required to do that in my lab. Finally, we assemble all the chunks in a human stem cell, which would enable you to finally create a Neanderthal clone.

[Jack LaRoche]

And the surrogates would be human. Right. In Regenesis, you write that an extremely adventurous female human could serve as the surrogate mother pin.

[Travis View]

Great movie idea. Woman is kidnapped, brought to a lab, and like forced to give birth to like a Neanderthal clone. Okay. And then of course at the end, I already have the ending. We can figure out the middle. I know I said I wouldn't banter so much, but I'm sorry. Sorry guys. Okay, the ending will be that the baby like comes out and it's super advanced and it grows really fast like the alien and Prometheus and slaughters all the scientists at the end except for the mother, because it's his mother and it loves her. Great movie.

[Liv Aycar]

Okay, I'm seated.

[Travis View]

Okay. Just had to get that on there so I don't forget Church. Yes. However, the prerequisite would of course be that human cloning is acceptable in society.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Thank you, Forest Whitaker for that interview.

[Liv Aycar]

So I had to have this in here because that quote, extremely adventurous female human is just so disturbing on so many levels. But this human cloning subject was something that fascinated Jeffrey Epstein to no end. In a November 18, 2011 email to George Church, Jeffrey Epstein wrote, sorry, you can't make it.

[Travis View]

Did the cloning issue give you pause?

[Liv Aycar]

George Church replied the the exact same day.

[Travis View]

Yes, I'm working toward this goal fairly rapidly, but trying to do so in a way that minimizes risk to the field. James Wilson, who happened to be my physician in the 1990s, set back the field of gene therapy by a decade by rushing. I've included a link. He didn't say that, but he includes the link. My lab is good at conceiving of radically new technologies as well. As improving throughput and quality by factors of 10. Given a couple of years in decent funding, this would become much more reasonable. I'm too busy doing it well to get distracted by trying to do it badly. George.

[Liv Aycar]

I'm sorry, Jake, but he didn't say doing it well.

[Travis View]

What did he.

[Liv Aycar]

There's a great typo there.

[Travis View]

I'm too busy. Oh, I'm too busy dong it. Well, dong it well. Here's the guy. He's like, I'm doing. He's like, I'm too busy doing it correctly and right. And. But instead of right doing it, I've written dong. It's very, very ironic.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah, that typo is just kind of amazing there. So the link that was included is a Scientific American link. And that link was from a September 2009 article, which is notable because on September 23, 2009, Martin Nowak, who we mentioned earlier, wrote in an email to

[Travis View]

Epstein, I am in the newly formed Board of Advisors of Scientific American American. It seems almost everyone there is a friend of yours. Great.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah. This is an interesting little rabbit hole to go down because in addition to ties with Scientific American and with Nature, Epstein and Maxwell sat on the board of a science magazine called Seed that ran from 2001 to 2009. In August 2018, Jeffrey Epstein took a pitch from biohacker and bitcoin enthusiast Brian Buck Bishop about a project to alter sperm to produce designer babies. It wasn't the first time that Brian had reached out to Epstein. They had been corresponding for several years at this point, first about his Bitcoin exchange, LedgerX, before the talk turned to transhumanistic concerns. As an aside, according to Anthony Rigaldo's interview with Bishop, one of the early projects that Bishop funded was David Ishii's project to create a glowing pillar puppy by injecting jellyfish DNA into mastiff sperm. As of 2019, the six pregnancies that this resulted in had not yet yielded the desired glow in the dark dog, and the FDA begun to look into the ethics behind these experiments. Epstein himself, on Zarro Ranch, was working on attempting to breed a championship dog line, although that did not seem to go the way he wanted to, as several frustrated email exchanges show. What initially led me down this rabbit hole of eugenics, gene editing, and human cloning was finding the name of one of my past professors in the Epstein files. Jack Horner was a paleontologist of some renown back when I was attending Montana State University and working for the Urban Coyote Research Project. He had a wild reputation in the paleontological community part admiration for his discoveries regarding dinosaurs nesting habits, habits, how wildly their appearance changes as they age, and being part of the soft tissue discoveries that Mary Schweitzer made, he was also a very controversial figure for some more bizarre assumptions such as T. Rexes primarily being scavengers and the fact that he married a 19 year old student of his when he was 65 years old.

[Jack LaRoche]

Jesus Christ.

[Liv Aycar]

Outside of the paleontology world, he was best known as an advisor on the Jurassic park films and books and a frequent TED talk giver. It was several months after Horner's marriage in 2012 that he began to converse with Jeffrey Epstein. The emails quickly resulted in an invitation to Zorro Ranch where Jack and one of his students went fossil hunting with Epstein and Maxwell and apparently had quite a good time with the girls as well.

[Travis View]

I guess I'm all the pedophiles in the emails. Why not September 1, 202012 Dear Geoffrey, first off, many thanks for the invitation to your ranch. I had a great time, especially spending time with you and the girls and seeing your Cretaceous sediments and the old railroad. I don't get many chances to spend time with non paleontologists or see places and things like that these days.

[Liv Aycar]

The interesting aspect of the fossil hunting expedition was that it was the culmination of Epstein's attempts to learn the geological topography of his ranch. While this could have been born out of natural curiosity, it has raised a lot of eyebrows given the recent investigations that have begun to see whether or not there are indeed human remains buried on the 7,622acre property. Epstein's scientific interests were driven by eugenics and misogyny. It's easy to see that through his belief that blue eyed people are more intelligent than all others, a belief he held so strongly that he compiled a so called called quote unquote smart list of 70 some famous individuals he was in contact with. So the list was compiled to discover the percentage of who had blue eyes.

[Travis View]

That's crazy.

[Liv Aycar]

It could also be seen through his repeated assertions to Chomsky and others about how disparities in intelligence are related to race and how they should edit the genes of the lesser races to increase their intelligence.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's so insane that Chomsky was just like cool man, see you next Friday.

[Liv Aycar]

Or with his obsessions with creating a quote unquote female Viagra to prove that their quote unquote horny virus hypothesis with former Stanford professor Nathan Wolfe or any of the myriad of other examples that exist within these files.

[Travis View]

Horny Virus hypothesis.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah. There is a series of emails between him and Nathan Wolfe talking about a horny virus that could get college students to fuck more.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, man.

[Travis View]

Oh, my God.

[Liv Aycar]

They're not enough, I guess.

[Travis View]

Yo, these guys are crazy.

[Liv Aycar]

He was also trying to genetically develop a pig that did not have cloves and hooves, so it would be kosher.

[Travis View]

Oh, what happened to this guy? What was Jeffrey Epstein like? Somebody's got to do the bio I got. What was he like as a kid? What happened to him? This is sick. This is sick guy.

[Liv Aycar]

That's a very, very hot take, Jake.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm saying, the more I care about this Jeffrey Epstein guy, the less I like him.

[Liv Aycar]

Beginning to think Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a good guy.

[Travis View]

He's a real sick, twisted guy.

[Liv Aycar]

So whether his interest in human cloning was born out of a desire for sex slaves or to clone himself to achieve immortality will likely never be known. Nevertheless, his influence on modern culture is worryingly clear. Echoes of his conversations about physical fitness, diet, and musings as to why women deign to live after childbearing age can be seen throughout modern maha discourse and even looks maxing spaces ironic and sincere online and off. We need a dramatic shift in how we discuss topics like disability, gender, and race before Epstein's visions for the future fully come to pass.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, man.

[Liv Aycar]

Uplifting episode.

[Travis View]

Depressing shit. Oh, my God. Just the last people in the world that you want associated with a character like Epstein.

[Liv Aycar]

I mean, it's just really weird to see how much of the stuff that he's discussing is now just out there in the world in general. Conversations. Even when it comes to the designer baby stuff, that's still things that we're discussing now. Can we turn off the genes that cause autism? It's really disturbing, the influence that he had over publications like Scientific American that you think are just perfectly fine. But then you have to start second guessing everything. Epstein and trans scientists.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Well, folks, transgender people are in the news again.

[Travis View]

They Can't Stay Away,

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm sure is a big surprise for any of our listeners who don't have any access to civilization. Following the Epstein file's release, it appears that many on the right have convinced themselves that Jeffrey Epstein was part of a grand cabal of evil pedophilic doctors trying to cut off your boy's penis and turn your beautiful daughters into gross hairy men. Far right Internet user Soleanath, for instance, seems to have taken this from the files release, receiving 4,000 likes on a post from February 1 that read this.

[Jack LaRoche]

The entire trans rights Movement was a domino effect co authored by Epstein. You wear a dress and buy hormones made in Israel because a pedophile wanted you to.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You know, this is like consent. Are you sure there's someone you didn't ask? It's like, well, Jeffrey Epstein had to approve of this one. It's not between you and your doctor. So in this segment I'll be talking about some of the actual sources of these conspiracy theories in the files so we can ponder the validity of these conspiracy theories. Theories. One of the more important components of the files related to these theories comes from Epstein's relationship with Robert Trivers, a controversial Yale evolutionary biologist. One reason for drivers controversy concerns his public defense of Epstein in 2015 when he told Reuters that quote, by the time they're 14 or 15, they're like grown women were 60 years ago. So I don't see the axis. So heinous. So this is like an Epstein take one. This is like he didn't need the file release, you know.

[Travis View]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Liv Aycar]

So is Traverse just a libertarian? Like this is just typical libertarian talking point here?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, no, I'm, you know, he's a biologist. So yeah. In a 2015 email to Noam Chomsky, another example of a high profile academic in this sort of circle, Epstein described himself as a major funder of Trivers research. Trivers relationship with Epstein dates back to at least 2009, after Epstein's guilty conviction for solicitation of prostitution with a minor. This relationship, like others of its kind between the sex criminal and various academics was ostensibly intellectual and nature. Trivers and Epstein would converse about various social and scientific topics the two were interested in. One of which was unfortunately transgender people. A topic that was clearly out of Trivers wheelhouse, but that he was nevertheless quite confident about. In what was perhaps the grossest of these messages, Trivers emailed Epstein this on December 17th of 2018. It is very simple. I will compare male to female with female to male. With greater molecular control over development, we are increasingly capable of producing novel phenotype more feminine men by blocking testosterone receptors or castration and at the same time increasing estrogen production. The one blocks male features, the second encourages female features. More masculine women, heavy testosterone dosage, incredible external effects, heavily bearded men. You would never guess they had a female bone in their body, which is not how bones work. But first kind, male to female is four times more frequent than female to male. The first is attractive, he is a woman with a cock. So that if your fantasy is to suck a man stick, otherwise you are completely heterosexual. It would be much nicer if the rest of the organism is female. Then you get the best of both worlds. So many transsexual women are very attractive and easily make money, which in turn, they assert, promotes their prostitution since they have to pay hefty fees for injections every week. But they are sexually happy once you have reached manhood. Even castration does not prevent the sensation of organisms, which I assume is orgasm.

[Travis View]

Oh my God, and they're dumb.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Contrast the poor female to male versions. They are unhappy and lonely. They are men with mum pums. The worst of both worlds.

[Liv Aycar]

The fuck what?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Mum pums, I think like poom poom. I think was supposed to be the

[Travis View]

fuck men with mum poms.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Pom pom. It's like a vagina, I think.

[Jack LaRoche]

Oh, okay.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I don't know. It's not worth thinking about. I don't think.

[Travis View]

I can't even believe that this guy thought about this enough to sit down and then write these sentences out. Like, this is like, they are. You know what begonia is right? These are aliens. Like, you know what? That they're right. They're right. These are. They might as well be from a fucking different planet.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, and you have to. You have to like know that it's. He's thinking like, I'm one of the smartest people in the world talking to another smartest person in the world.

[Travis View]

And he's like, and I'm writing an email to the second. Maybe, maybe a guy who's smarter even than I am.

[Liv Aycar]

Jeffrey Epstein writing an email with one hand. I think.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Travis View]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Jake Rockatansky]

But to continue, if you like smelly masculine men, you want that hard cock that comes with the show. You do not want one of nature's more complex and variable structures, the pum pum. That is an acquired taste. And not with a man.

[Travis View]

The pom pom.

[Jake Rockatansky]

There are hundreds of female trans videos and websites. I have never seen a male one. Possibly the worst, by the way. We are now pushing the intervention earlier. So you notice your 3 year old son has trans tendencies, so now you intervene with hormones. I would be frightened to do that. But who knows?

[Travis View]

But who knows?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Cc but who knows?

[Travis View]

But who knows, who knows?

[Jake Rockatansky]

There are obviously a lot of absurd problems with this email that I think help demonstrate that people such as Trivers are not particularly smart and don't really know what they're talking about. It's a good kind of instructional thing about, I think, trans healthcare in general. The first being that blocking testosterone receptors and increasing estrogen production is Not a new thing in the slightest. Endocrinologists have been doing experiments related to the production of novel phenotypes as far back as 1850 with a German scientist surgically removing the gonads of a group of roosters and observing an extreme process of feminization, both biologically as well as behaviorally. Beyond this, synthetic hormones became available as early as the 1930s, meaning it's almost been a hundred years since this process was possible.

[Travis View]

And you can learn even more about that on Liv's Curse media series in Transition, if you're interested in a deeper dive into that history. Little plug. All right, bye.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Don't worry. No, I was plugged. I'm plugging it in the script, too. Don't worry.

[Travis View]

All right. I'm just doing a little plug.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Transgender women are also not, quote, easily able to make money and experience substantially higher rates of poverty, unemployment, and a much lower than average income than the general population. When Trivers talks about how trans women's beauty, quote, promotes their prostitution, he's obviously, of course, misunderstood, mistaken. While trans women are substantially more likely to pick up sex work than the general population, it actually has much more to do with the point I just made about income inequality. This, combined with the fetishization of trans women, which is, you know, as evidenced by the entire email, makes what is called survival sex work very common. Also, just side, you don't need to pay hefty fees for weekly estrogen injections. It's a pretty easy hormone to synthesize. Like, again, they've been doing it for hundreds of years. A vial often costs, you know, 50 to $100, and it takes like a month and a half or so to use all of it.

[Travis View]

Yeah, it's almost like that's part of the fetishization. It's like, oh, and they have to pay so much. So expensive.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It is a part of. It really does also connect with the transhumanism stuff. It's like they're fetishizing it for, like, this is a new way of being that requires all this science and technology. And also, it's hot.

[Liv Aycar]

And isn't it also true that the rates of trans men isn't that much lower compared to the rates of trans women?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yes. Yeah, it has changed over time. Honestly, it sounds like trivers is using 1960s data because now it has changed. And there is a statistically increased prominence of trans men of female to male. So in 2018, it certainly was more female to male than male to female. And I don't think at any point it was over four times more of either one.

[Liv Aycar]

And I thought that historical records were also a lot worse for female to male because they just weren't studied as much.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, absolutely. And that's one of the problems too is it's like, well, there's less access for them. And it's like, well, yeah, if it's a thing that requires access to medical care and they just choose not to give you medical care, then there's going to be less of them, you know, technically. And finally, in what was potentially the most damaging part of this email, for the sake of how it was taken up by the Right after the release of the Epstein files, Trivers claims that they, presumably meaning trans doctors, are pushing for a situation where if your 3 year old son has trans tendencies, whatever that means, you're able to give them access to hormones. And for a biologist, I'm surprised at how incredibly unaware Trivers is of like basically basic endocrinology. Inducing any sort of puberty for a three year old would be absurd. And it's pretty unclear how someone at that age would exhibit enough gendered behaviors for any sort of trans tendency to be speculated upon. As far as the question for medical transition for minors, Trivers was likely reacted to an increase in pediatric gender clinics during the 2010s in countries like America. Yet I would imagine that even those listening who have a very positive view about allowing minors access to transmedical care would underestimate just how few under 18s were receiving care when Trivers was writing this in 2020 2018, with according to Reuters, there being about 3,000 under 18s in the United States on it at the time. As for the care itself, it's generally quite conservative. Only approximately 40% of patients referred to these clinics are given access to medical care after extensive psychological review, regardless of how long a minor has been certain of their trans identity. Anyone under 16 is only given access to puberty blockers which delay the onset of puberty to ensure that a minor is absolutely sure about going forward with transitioning. It's only those 16 and above that are given access to whole hormones to facilitate the onset of their desired puberty.

[Liv Aycar]

But have you considered how much better it would be if you were just inducing puberty in a three year old?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, no, I mean it is like the combination of trans fetishization and also pedophilia is like, okay, all right.

[Travis View]

Your three year old is like starting fights with you and like slamming the door. Fuck you, Mom.

[Liv Aycar]

Your 3 year old has more pimples than human.

[Jake Rockatansky]

These errors as well as the very gross fetishization on display should show you how disconnected Trivers is from actual transactions healthcare. There are certainly those, to be clear, who have had important roles in shaping trans healthcare, who've done so to the detriment of trans people. Again, for more, please listen to my series Science in transition on cursemedia.net, but Trivers is certainly not a part of this group. Despite this, their connection has been a large source of speculation concerning Epstein funding the evil transgender craze. In part due to an email sent by Epstein to Trivers on 16th March 2019 where he said this.

[Travis View]

I thought you might want to focus on transgender biology. People would be interested and I would find fund.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Epstein did in fact fund some research. The year after Epstein's death, Trivers co authored a paper on what he called transgendered belief, which is a very backhanded way of describing trans people wanting to change their gender and sex being connected to one's digit ratio, that is the difference between their index and ring finger.

[Liv Aycar]

That's the same way that they would say whether or not you were a werewolf back in like the 1800s was measuring the digit ratio.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Whether go makes you think, are you

[Liv Aycar]

a werewolf or are you trans Trippers will help you find out.

[Jake Rockatansky]

The belief stems from exposure to hormones in the womb, with a more supposedly feminized digit ratio. Your index finger being longer than your ring finger on your left hand being more common in trans women than CIS men, which like, I, I guess I'm a cisgender man then, because I looked at it, I think, yeah, or I think they're the same. I don't know. It's a very silly general tendency that isn't always right.

[Travis View]

My index is definitely longer. There you go, look, this is my index right here. It's the longest one. This is my left hand. I got some thinking to do.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I think, well, there you go, Jake. Makes you think. Makes me think.

[Travis View]

I gotta, I gotta go and stew.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Well, again, we talk about this sort of stuff a lot in science and transition. They've been trying to find some sort of empirical determinative transsexuality for a long time, and the best they found still has been very, very tentative maybes. So maybe we'll. Maybe we should wrap it up guys. Unless we get something a bit more definitive than this. Yeah. But the other, possibly much more shocking trans science related Epstein connection relates to prominent surgeon Jess Ting, a longtime Epstein associate, who in the late 2010s would switch from general plastic surgery to trans surgery. Very specifically, vaginoplasty or the surgical construction of a vagina. But before he made this switch, Ting would be part of Epstein's cadre of medical specialists who would often do private, legally dubious medical work on him, as well as some of his victims and associates. One photo released by the Epstein files shows Ting closing a head wound of a woman with 35 stages stitches as she lay on Epstein's dining room table. This medical procedure was for an undergraduate who had fallen off an atv. Yet Ting would not merely perform medically necessary surgeries to Epstein, his associates and victims. And Epstein recruited him to perform cosmetic surgery for some of the girls Epstein had been sexually abusing.

[Travis View]

Oh, my God.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Ting's name appears at least 466 times in the Epstein file documents, and the two had a working relationship for nearly a decade. In one email, Ting was invited to Epstein a island. To quote this email, he was brought to Jeffrey's island to play with his toys. Ugh. Yeah. Ting accepted the offer, mentioning he is bringing his friend and her three children. In another email, Epstein asks Ting to perform a boob job on a girl and also mentions that Ting had already performed two in the past. Epstein would also fund Ting's cancer research, giving him $50,000 in 2012 for this purpose. I think possibly one of the more troubling emails, and certainly one of the most bakeable ones between the two, is one authored by Ting from April 24th of 2018, where he mentions his recent switch to trans related surgeries. He says this.

[Jack LaRoche]

Hi, Jeffrey. I wanted to share with you some changes in my career that you may find of interest. I have switched specialties from plastic surgery to gender affirmation surgery, AKA transgender surgery. This is a documentary about the creation of the new center at Mount Sinai. Transformation.film.com. check it out. It's the most amazing thing I've ever been involved with. Warmest. Just Ting.

[Liv Aycar]

Just the guy you want doing your surgery.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I know. Could you imagine, like, you get your. From this guy and you're like, you did what?

[Liv Aycar]

I don't want to know, like what he's doing as he's constructing it.

[Travis View]

Oh, my gosh.

[Liv Aycar]

Pin.

[Travis View]

Another great horror movie. You get your from like a. A horrific, like, Nazi doctor and it. It's cursed, actually, and like, it's kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It could be like a, like a bottle horror movie.

[Liv Aycar]

Attack of the cursed Nazi pussy.

[Travis View]

Yeah, yeah, like cursed Nazi pussy.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It sounds like there's a French guy out there right now writing this screenplay.

[Travis View]

And if not, somebody, somebody listening to this show. Maybe Julian is like, yes, my manuscript.

[Liv Aycar]

But you have to have a swastika like shaved into the pubic hair.

[Travis View]

It's a very subversive. It's camp actually.

[Liv Aycar]

Now Troma would do it.

[Travis View]

Yeah, yeah, Troma. Yeah. It's a Troma film film ting would

[Jake Rockatansky]

become quite influential in the field of vaginoplasty. Inventing the peritoneal pull through method. This connection is of course quite bad. A lot worse than the Trevor stuff. Yet it's important to understand that just because someone is in trans healthcare does not make them an extension of the trans community. I feel like this running joke among some trans women I hear about like there being like an 80% chance your trans doctor is like a chase, is like a guy who's a chaser. And you like, you have to at least hope like, well that's enough motivation that he's actually going to do a good job job. Like that's the awkward position you're put in.

[Liv Aycar]

I really appreciate you highlighting that point because it's a point that I don't think nearly gets highlighted enough. Especially you know, among younger generations right now.

[Travis View]

That's gotta be like so terrifying to like be in a doctor's office. Like it's already like terrifying to be in a doctor's office but slowly coming to the realization of like what their motives are. Like, I can't even. I'll never be able to imagine like how scary that is.

[Jake Rockatansky]

There's long been an antagonistic relationship between many healthcare professionals and clinicians in their transparency patients. Just as there's been an antagonistic relationship between the medical community and other marginalized groups such as people of color and gay people. Trans healthcare in the Western world was constructed by a cadre of clinicians who put extensive gatekeeping methods surrounding it out of fear they might get sued by patients who would later regret the changes. Solidifying requirements such as a real life test. One would have to live as their preferred gender for years without any access to hormones to prove they really wanted it. Which again, like, think about you trying to live as the opposite sex for a year in 1975 with your current. You know, it's not a very good situation to put someone through.

[Liv Aycar]

Wasn't it also that you had to like reasonably pass as well?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yes. A lot of the times they would. There weren't that many spots in a lot of these clinics. So like they would pick the more kind of like conventionally for trans women feminine because they wanted like no visible queerness. So if you had further Likelihood this is also why they generally chose or one of the reasons they generally preferred, like, heterosexual trans women, trans women who are only into men, because it's like, well, you'll just like, blend in as, like, infertile cisgender woman who marries a man, and then no one really notices.

[Liv Aycar]

So anybody who wasn't a twink was just right out.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, no twinks. Only right in the front door.

[Liv Aycar]

And if you aged out of it, if twink death hit you a bit too soon, you are just fucked.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, absolutely. It was only after decades of struggle against this medical establishment that trans adults began to be able to actually decide for themselves if they wanted to transition. This is to say, you know, another trans doctor being evil doesn't really change this relationship of at all. People on the right seem to be very obsessed with painting the trans community through the doctors that treat us and even in this case, the scientists who write weird papers about us. But the right has talked very little about the only trans woman actually in the Epstein files themselves. Ava Cordero, is a Latina trans woman who was 16 years old in 1999 when Epstein sexually abused her. He lured her into his mansion on the promise of giving her a modeling job. In 2007, Cordero would file a lawsuit against Epstein, saying that he forced her to engage in. In, quote, bizarre and unnatural sex acts. She was one of the first survivors to come forward publicly. The media's reaction to the suit was to paint it as a bogus false accusation and quoted Epstein's lawyer, who claimed that she was actually just after his money. She was also smeared with transphobic insults. Journalists Gregorian and Karen from the New York Post called her a man and referred to the situation as a gender bend shocker. And I posted just like the New York Post article here, you know, it's she and then in brackets, there's the H and E has a story. Bogus sex suit.

[Liv Aycar]

Also, the kinky sex suit gal is a man.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, there's also.

[Jack LaRoche]

Yeah, there's always been a weird relationship between Epstein and the New York Post. And I think this is also representative, like, like absolute. The most gutter tabloid smearing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, who's the. Who's the Post founded by? Wasn't it one of, like, the found.

[Jack LaRoche]

Alexander Hamilton. Founded the New York Hamilton.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah, yeah.

[Travis View]

So funny.

[Liv Aycar]

Lin Manuel Miranda's in the wings wanting to write a song about this. Yeah, this looks like something out of Weekly World News with the way it's laid out.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, it seems like a lot of the times, a lot of these conspiracies around trans healthcare. It's like, oh, you know, John Money or other early clinicians, like, they made transness a thing when in reality, like they were responding to an increased demand from people already. So there's like a really bad understanding of like, if you find an evil trans scientist or trans doctor who's providing care, they aren't like constructing the desire for people to change their sex. Like, that desire is always going to be there. But Epstein did not groom this girl into becoming transgender or whatever the right has to say about Epstein's relationship with trans people. Instead, he took advantage of the same transphobic discourses that right wing conspiracy theorists peddle in order to abuse her and discredit her claims. If there's an alliance here, it's between certain clinicians and doctors, those like Epstein and the far right conspiracy theorists who push an ideology that ensures trans women are powerless and discredited. It's a very heavy note to end it on, but if there is a place to put that heavy note, it's probably here.

[Liv Aycar]

Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of the kids that Dahmer was preying on and how because they were young, because they were gay, you know, the police literally brought one of them back to Dahmer. Like, oh, it was just a lovers dispute because again, they were dealing with minority. That kid was also Latino, if I remember correctly. So it reminds me a little bit of that where you're just taking one of the most vulnerable people you can and it's like, oh, people aren't going to believe you. You.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, it's very common for a lot of marginalized identities. People know, predators know who the police won't care about.

[Travis View]

Up ass world we live in. Well, I mean, well, well, it's bad. And there's going to be more.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's going to be more. It's bad.

[Travis View]

Hey, sorry we're all here. But you know what, folks? We are in this together and it's. I feel like so grateful, you know, to, to, you know, have people that can like, help us understand. Like, you know, it's just like great to have. I don't know, it's just like great to like understand more about like this, this real, like sick kind of piece of our society. And I don't know, I just, I'm sorry, I know about it, but like, I'm appreciative to be like educated about it, if that makes any sense.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yes. And if you want to hear more cursemedia.net listen to this series.

[Travis View]

Thanks for listening to another episode of The QAA podcast. You can go to patreon.comqaa to get a second premium episode for every main one that we release. And we've also got a website that's qaapodcast.com Jack, where can people find more of your work?

[Liv Aycar]

You can find me on Blue sky or on Twitter at Coyote Speaks and Coyote Jacques, respectively.

[Travis View]

And Liv, are you still streaming? Are you still using.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, Twitch TV, Lavegar. Every Sunday is in my newsletter, lavegar.com folks.

[Travis View]

Make it your Sunday hang. Why not until next week, man? May the deep dish bless you and keep you. Hang in there, folks. We have auto queued content based on your preferences.

[Guest or Listener]

This video is for everybody who has just now recently learned that our entire political and Hollyweird, our whole, like, powerful social structure is run by pedophile. And you're shocked and you're horrified and you're disgusted. Like, how is this even possible? How did this even happen? Unsettled and gross. And you're just so confused at how there can be this kind of evil and the world. First of all, I want to say that I'm. I'm really sorry. I am. I remember we went through this. I went through this in 20, 19, 2020, when it was still kind of like conspiratorial. And we tried to come out, we tried to talk about it, but the social media apps would take it down. It was. It was a whole thing and it was a whole mess. But I'm sorry, because I remember how it felt when I first learned this. So much deeper and darker than just child trafficking, which is deeper, dark on its own. Okay. But it goes so much darker. Felt confused and broken and. And stupid. Like, how did I not see this? How did I buy into that back then? Okay, the whole movement was.

[Liv Aycar]

And.

[Guest or Listener]

And I know, I know what people are saying, but back then, the whole movement, the MAGA movement, was about saving these kids. Was about saving the children. At least that's what it was for us. That was what was most important to us. Obviously, that message has just gotten lost and. And things have changed quite a bit. And that movement has moved on to. We're just not going to talk about it anymore. A bunch of us, though, that are still here, like, this is still kind of the core of. Of what we wanted. We wanted accountability for all of this. I see a lot of you sharing the snuff film that came with some of that stuff initially with John Podesta. And I'm sorry about that. I really am, because it's horrific. I Remember the first time I watched that? And there were, there were some, some others too that we had seen and. Or I had seen and I. My kids didn't leave our house for a month.

[Jake Rockatansky]

We.

[Guest or Listener]

We went.

[Liv Aycar]

No.

[Guest or Listener]

Reality is that I'm glad you're here now. And I hold no ill will that you didn't know then what you know now. And I see a lot of comments from people who are like, well, welcome to the club. So glad you could join us. I feel like I deserve an apology for being called a conspiracy. Really. I'm not gonna do that. I'm. I'm not going to do that because I feel. Feel like I'm just glad that you're here. I'm glad that you see it now. Whatever it took for you to see it and believe it now I'm. I'm glad. I'm glad that I'm not just out here by myself or with my little fringe group of people, those who are leaving those comments who are coming down on these people who are just learning about this now. Okay, Chill the fuck out. Chill the fuck out. The whole goal was to get everybody to see this, okay? And then to. To come together as a collective and renew our faith or figure something else out. Because we weren't gonna get there with just our little fringe groups. We weren't gonna get there with just you. Boomer, Sally. The majority of us that are doing this for the right reasons, who don't care about being first, really wanted to be wrong. We wanted to be wrong. I've never wanted to be wrong more about something in my entire life. I never. I didn't sleep well for a long time. 2024 election in. In to a lot of us was our last chance. That was our hail melee that we

[Liv Aycar]

were gonna do this.

[Guest or Listener]

We're gonna get the right people in there and they were gonna expose this whole thing and they were gonna start holding people accountable. They were gonna fix this. And we're here and they have it. They are not even talking about it. I, I don't know. They're dismissing it anyway. I'm just glad you're here. I'm glad that it can be talked about openly. You being shamed or being, you know, I don't want you to be shamed by, by those people. Like, don't listen to them. You, you came to the. You, you realized it. When you realized it, you, you know, a lot of you were like 10 when this. Initially, you know, people really started to

[Jake Rockatansky]

find out about this.

[Guest or Listener]

So I'm not gonna come down on you. I'm gonna welcome you because we need you. We need you in order to take this entire collective up to this next level. Know what that looks like? I don't know what comes after this, but I'm just take solace in the fact that we're all in it together, I guess, that we're unified, at least in this. And I take a lot of peace in that. That when it came to these kids, that we could come together and hate it equally. Equally, equally, equally, equally, equally.