Evil Neuroscience Part 2: ECCO Chamber (Premium E336) Sample

Summary

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QAA Podcast – “Evil Neuroscience Part 2: ECCO Chamber” (Premium E336)

Hosts: Julian Feeld, Travis View, Jake Rockatansky, Jack LaRoche
Date: May 17, 2026
Summary of Sample Segment (0:00 – 9:00)

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Episode Overview

This episode continues QAA’s exploration of the dark intersections between neuroscience, government experimentation, and conspiracy lore. Picking up from part one, the hosts dive into the history and implications of sensory deprivation tanks, early brain research, and chilling Cold War mind-control experiments. Blending comedy, research, and lived experience, they uncover how attempts to peer into—or manipulate—the human mind blurred ethical boundaries and spawned decades of anxiety and fascination.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. First-Person Experience: Entering the Sensory Deprivation Tank

[00:31–03:59]

• Jake (or possibly Jack) recaps an unnerving personal experience with a modern sensory deprivation tank. The vivid description underscores sensory disorientation and psychological vulnerability:
  • Setting: “I’m standing naked in a small, brightly lit room... next to a busy freeway and a bridal shop. It’s the least sketchy location that could take me on such short notice.” (00:49, C)
  • The immersion: “I step into the sensory deprivation tank. I immediately slip, but I catch myself on the oh, shit handle... I forgot to put earplugs in... The next 90 minutes are spent in total darkness and absolute silence, save for... the occasional truck that goes by.” (01:15, C)
  • Sensory dissolution: “I lose all sense of my body quickly... My joints pop. The throbbing in my knee intensifies and dissipates... before finally turning into a familiar feeling I can only describe as television static. Above me, the darkness swirls into the spiral form of a snake...” (01:45, C)

Memorable Quote:
“I’m completely alone with my thoughts. Shit.” (02:24, C)

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2. Sensory Deprivation: Altered States, Both Fictional and Real

[03:00–03:59]

• Film & cultural references:

  • Travis references the film Altered States as his only touchpoint with the tanks: “The only thing I know about it is basically from the movie Altered States, which, you know, so good, I love, but I highly doubt that's an accurate portrayal.” (02:34, B)
  • Joking about transformations: “What, you mean you don’t turn into a monster?” (02:47, C)

• Physical details of floatation tanks:

  • “It is a startling amount of salt. So you just gently get cushioned by it... because it’s so warm, you don’t really feel it...” (02:55–03:04, C)
  • “I could completely spread my arms out and not touch the sides.” (03:30, C)

Memorable Quote:
“Maybe I’ll become a dolphin. Maybe I’ll get the prehensile penis of my dreams.” (03:51–03:59, C)

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3. The Origins: Scientific & Military Experiments

[04:09–08:43]

• Host recounts the early work of neuroscientist John Lilly:

  • Focused first on neural mapping via brain implants and stimulating pain/pleasure centers—experiments he even performed on himself.
  • Work at NIH/NIMH led to creating the sensory deprivation tank, initially “a much less comfortable experience”:
    • Original design: subjects suspended upright, diver’s mask, breathing tube; later improved with salt, heating, and lying down.
    • “The original thought was that if you were deprived of all external stimulation, the brain would just go quiet and that you’d fall asleep.” (05:31, C)

• Quoting John Lilly’s motivation (from Omni magazine, 1983):

  • “There was a problem in neurophysiology at the time. Is brain activity self-contained or not?... So I decided to try a sensory isolation experiment, building a tank to reduce external stimuli, auditory, visual, tactile temperature, almost to nil.” (06:21, D)

• The overlooked wider history and government involvement:

  • Canadian psychologist Donald Hebb proposed the idea for mind control—collaborating with US, UK, Canadian militaries.
  • McGill University experiments: Human subjects paid ~$20/day to endure sensory deprivation (ear-cushion white noise, black goggles, arms immobilized) for up to several days:
    • “The minimum amount of time they stayed in the state was three days. Hebb had hoped they would last for six weeks. Nobody did.” (08:21, C)
  • "Prolonged solitary confinement doesn't really do positive things to the brain." (08:15, C)

Memorable Exchange:

• “This looks like a very complicated game of hangman.” (05:26, B)
• “Yeah, this looks awful. This looks like, like a barbaric, like, execution method.” (08:46, B)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “[Sensory deprivation] was a lot larger than the pods that are more commonly… I highly recommend it personally.” (03:34, C)
• “John Lilly was not the first to experiment with this sort of sensory deprivation, although he arguably perfected the technique as early as 1951.” (06:44, C)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:49–02:27: First-person description of float tank experience.
• 03:04–03:44: Practical float tank details, size, sensation.
• 04:09–06:44: John Lilly’s neuroscience/military sensory deprivation research.
• 06:44–08:43: Hebb’s mind control experiments at McGill; ethical and psychological consequences.

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Tone and Style

• Casual, irreverent, frequently humorous—using banter and dark jokes to process eerie material.
• Careful to highlight historical context and real-world impacts beneath the antics.

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Summary:
This episode uses firsthand stories and darkly comic discussion to draw connections between neuroscience history, conspiracy theory, and the psychological extremes of isolation. The hosts walk listeners through the sometimes bizarre, sometimes frightening efforts of mid-20th-century scientists (and their government funders) to unravel and exploit the secrets of the mind.

Transcript

[A]

Sa.

[B]

If you're hearing this, well done. You found a way to connect to the Internet. Welcome to the QAA Podcast Premium Episode 336 Evil Neuroscience Part 2 Echo Chamber as always, we are your hosts. Jake Rockatansky, Jack LaRoche, Julian Field, and Travis View.

[C]

I'm standing naked in a small, brightly lit room with questionable small paintings of beaches on the walls. The building is next to both a busy freeway and a bridal shop. It's the least sketchy location that could take me on such short notice. I'm wondering if this is a good idea. Brad was all enthusiasm when I talked to him about it, but I'm having second thoughts. I'm not entirely sure there aren't cuts on my skin, given that I handle critters on a regular basis. Along with a husky that jumps now and then, the lights in the room flicker and then dim down to what's meant to be a soothing, ambient glow. What the hell? I step into the sensory deprivation tank. I immediately slip, but I catch myself on the oh, shit handle. I realize after I lay down in the mix of epsom salt and 93 degree water that I forgot to put earplugs in. I hit the switch to turn the lights off, then immediately fumble for an embarrassingly long period of time in absolute darkness to hit the switch that turns the music off. The next 90 minutes are spent in total darkness and absolute silence, save for the low rumbling roar of the occasional truck that goes by outside. I lose all sense of my body quickly uncertain how much of me is submerged in the water and how much is still floating above it. My joints pop. The throbbing in my knee intensifies and dissipates in slow waves before finally turning into a familiar feeling I can only describe as television static. Above me, the darkness swirls into the spiral form of a snake, now never quite solidifying but still perceptible. I'm completely alone with my thoughts. Shit.

[B]

Damn. A terrifying experience, to be sure.

[D]

Yeah, I've never tried that.

[C]

Well, it has an interesting history.

[B]

The only thing I know about it is basically from the movie Altered States, which, you know, so good, I love, but I highly doubt that that's, you know, kind of an accurate portrayal of what happens when one goes into one of these tanks.

[C]

What, you mean you don't turn into a monster?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, is it just easy to float? Is there just so much salt in there that you're just zero GS?

[C]

Essentially, yes. It is a startling amount of salt. So you just gently get cushioned by it.

[A]

Almost.

[C]

But because it's so warm, you don't really feel it, even though you're laying in it. It's a very unusual sensation.

[B]

How deep is it, like, is it like being in the tub where you can, like, you know, feel the bottom of it, or does it feel like there's nothing beneath you?

[C]

You can touch the bottom with effort, like a tub, but because you're so buoyant in it, it takes a little bit of effort too. And it was a lot larger than I expected. I could completely spread my arms out and not touch the sides.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

So this was a lot larger than the pods that are more commonly, well, were more commonly used. I highly recommend it personally.

[B]

Well, yeah, I was gonna say. Was it a pleasant experience overall?

[C]

Oh, yeah. I'm planning to go back. Yeah. I want to see how much weird shit can happen if I go in there.

[B]

Yeah, cool.

[D]

Maybe you'll become a dolphin.

[C]

Yeah, maybe I will, you know, maybe I'll get the prehensile penis of my dreams.

[B]

And hopefully a partner who's willing to flood their house.

[A]

Sensory deprivation.

[C]

Up until 1954, the bulk of John Lilly's research had been focused on neural mapping. He developed a technique that allowed brainwave readings to be taken from the cortex of unanestasized animals by implanting electrodes in their brain. And another technique that allowed for the stimulation of the pain and pleasure centers of mammalian and avian species. Both techniques he also practiced on himself to prove the viability of it in general. He had worked for the National Institute of Mental Health, a. Of Don Bluth fame, as well as the National Institute of Neurological Diseases and Blindness, both part of NIH and Bethesda, Maryland. It was only natural that his mind would next turn to what would happen to the brain if it were deprived of all external stimuli. So can you describe what you see here?

[A]

The diagram of an observer and a subject in a. In a special room. And the observer has some sort of headphones on and the subject is floating in liquid inside of the room and it shows off some vibration proof concrete and. Yeah, it looks, I don't know, kind of disturbing. It's like the subject, the little stick drawing of the subject looks like. Looks like a hanged person.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say this looks like a very complicated game of hangman.

[D]

Extremely creepy.

[C]

Yeah. So thankfully, this is not what I experienced. The original design of the isolation tank had the floater suspended upright in the water with a skin diver's mask over their face and a breathing apparatus strapped onto it that snaked out of the tank. Water filtration devices, heaters and Epsom salts were all later innovations that made it into a much more comfortable experience. The original thought was that if you were deprived of all external stimulation, the brain would just go quiet and that you'd fall asleep. Because what could be more boring than just floating in total silence and darkness for who knows how long? An interview with the Magazine Omni in 1983 explained Lilly's train of thought.

[D]

There was a problem in neurophysiology at the time. Is brain activity self contained or not? One school of thought said the brain needed external stimulation or it would go to sleep, become unconscious, while the other school said, no, there are automatic oscillators in the brain that keep it awake. So I decided to try a sensory isolation experiment, building a tank to reduce external stimuli, auditory, visual, tactile temperature, almost to nil.

[C]

So the trouble with this is that Lilly was leaving a lot out. John Lilly was not the first to experiment with this sort of sensory deprivation, although he arguably perfected the technique as early as 1951. Psychologists with ties to the US, UK and Canadian militaries were having regular meetings in Montreal to discuss the possibility of brainwashing. What techniques could be used to extract information or even implant false information into the minds of the unwilling? Could you even induce false confessions with the right techniques? These were all very exciting things to consider. The Canadian psychologist Donald Hebb was the first to propose the idea of a sensory deprivation chamber. If deprived of external stimuli for a long enough period, he proposed the mind would become susceptible to the implantation of new or different ideas. The military absolutely ate this up. He was granted either $30,000 or $10,000. I've seen differing numbers with this, but he was granted that over three years by the Canadian Defence Research Board to conduct experiments at McGill University to see if this would indeed work. We know some of how this turned out. Prolonged solitary confinement doesn't really do positive things to the brain. The original McGill experiments were done on graduate students who clearly weren't being tortured enough for $20 a day. They were forced into a state of what Gen Z calls bedrot. White noise was pumped into their ears continuously through headphones shaped like cushions. They wore black painted ski goggles and their arms and hands were enclosed in cardboard tubes. Doctoral students were tasked with feeding them, watering them and quote, unquote, toileting them. The minimum amount of time they stayed in the state was three days. Hebb had hoped they would last for six weeks. Nobody did.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Yeah, no shit. They did like, Chris Marker legit to them.

[B]

Yeah, this looks awful. This looks like, like a barbaric, like, execution method. You've been listening to a sample of a premium episode of the QAA podcast. For access to the full episode, as well as all past premium episodes and all of our podcast miniseries, go to patreon.com travis why is that such a good deal?

[A]

Well, Jake, you get hundreds of additional episodes of the QAA podcast for just $5 per month. For that very low price, you get access to over 200 premium episodes, plus all of our miniseries. That includes 10 episodes of Man Clan with Julian the Nanny, 10 episodes of Perverts with Julian and Liv, 10 episodes of the Spectral Voyager with Jake and Brad, plus 20 episodes of Trickle down with Me. Travis View. It's a bounty of content and the best deal in podcasting.

[D]

Travis, for once, I agree with you. And I also agree that people could subscribe by going to patreon.comqaa well, that's

[B]

not an opinion, it's a fact.

[D]

You're so right, Jake.

[B]

We love and appreciate all of our listeners.

[D]

Yes, we do. And Travis is actually crying right now, I think out of gratitude.

[A]

Maybe that's not true. The part about me crying, not. Not me being grateful. I'm very grateful.

[D]

It.