The Brutal Framemogging of Clavicular (E360)

Summary

QAA Podcast E360: The Brutal Framemogging of Clavicular

Date: February 19, 2026
Hosts: Julian Feeld, Travis View, Jake Rockatansky, Liv Agar

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the QAA crew (Julian, Jake, and Liv) dissect the bizarre, troubling, and funny world of "looksmaxing," focusing on the viral Internet figure "Clavicular." The discussion winds through the etymology and inner workings of looksmaxing and incel subcultures, the memeification of social cruelty, the rise and semi-ironic rituals of "IRL" streaming, and the collapse of boundaries between online personas and real life. The group investigates why these communities and characters (like Clavicular) have become so influential among Gen Z, how the language and ideology function, and the broader cultural malaise they reflect.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is "Looksmaxing"? (05:12)

• Definition & Origin: A subculture stemming from incel and "manosphere" forums, built on the belief that all life success hinges on proximity to conventional beauty. Looksmaxing refers to actively modifying one's appearance to maximize attractiveness.
• Clavicular as Icon: A 20-year-old self-help influencer who has championed the ideology, rising through controversial podcasts and "IRL" streaming.
• Quote:
  "We're doing a Clavicular episode. Feels long overdue to do another looksmaxing thing... the memes and the culture have gotten so big, they've hit really critical mass."
  — Liv Agar (01:47)

2. Language and Lingo: Entering the Looksmaxing Lexicon (04:25, 15:10)

• Liv introduces terms like "mog," "frame mogging," "jester gooning," "foid," "moid," and more, often invented or warped by right-wing incel forums.
• Mogging: Outcompeting someone else in physical attractiveness (or any measurable trait).
  • "Mog, originally from the acronym Alpha Male of the Group, or amog, was shortened... mog eat mog world." — Liv Agar (15:10)
• Jester gooning: A deliberately ridiculous, possibly camp riff on "jestermaxing" (trying to get girls by being funny/quirky) and "gooning" (masturbating for hours). The term’s viral absurdity spawns a genre of memes built on these private in-group references.
• Quote:
  "It's actually bordering on Clockwork Orange... level of made up words."
  — Julian Feeld (01:31)

3. The Viral Incident: Clavicular Gets "Framemogged" at ASU (07:14 – 20:00)

• Clavicular goes IRL streaming at Arizona State University. He's approached by a much more muscular ‘frat bro’ (Varys) for a photo. His chat erupts with “mogged!” and "frame mogging" memes.

• The short video circulates on X/Twitter and TikTok; posts about “brutal framemogging” become enormous viral meme templates.

• Quote:
  "Sources are even saying that Clavicular was mid jester gooning when a group of foids came and spiked his cortisol levels."
  — Julian Feeld, parodying meme (00:49)

• Parodies proliferate, e.g.,
  "If your main circle isn’t discussing Clavicular running into a frat leader at ASU and getting brutally frame mogged by him, then it’s time to find a new circle. Your network is your net worth."
  — Referenced meme post (18:31)

• The spectacle turns the event into deliberately ironic "news," giving the appearance of cultural importance to a meaningless event.

4. A Theater of Cruelty: Why This Stuff Appeals (12:04)

• Drawing comparisons to 4chan/Chan cultures, the episode explores how online anonymity breeds socially detached, performative cruelty. Liv and Julian see LIVE streaming as a natural extension: all the callousness and ritualized language of Chans, imposed on reality with real people as targets.
• Quote:
  "It’s a theater of cruelty... the first piercing of the veil of like, you’re behind your keyboard. You’re keyboard warriors. It’s like—not anymore."
  — Julian Feeld (12:14)

5. Origins & Evolution of the Subculture (42:00 – 52:59)

• Tracing the history from PUAHate (pickup artist critique), to SlutHate, to Lookism and Looksmax.org.
• Outlines the “blackpill,” anti-jestermaxing (opposing the idea that being funny/charismatic helps), and the evolution of the “LMS” (Looks, Money, Status) doctrine.
• Explains how every permutation makes body dysmorphia, cruelty, and self-hate worse for all involved.
• Notable Moment: Elliot Rodger’s presence on PUAHate and the site’s shutdown.
  • "This site... would functionally serve as a factory to produce body dysmorphia. Almost like a slightly less horrifying male-centered version of pro-anorexia content."
    — Liv Agar (49:15)

6. Objectivity, Science, and the PSL Scale (35:05, 37:05)

• Looksmaxers attempt to quantify beauty as objectively as possible, measuring mid-face ratios, jawlines, and more.
• PSL (Personal, Sex, Looks) scale tries to "scientifically" rate how attractive a person's face is (most people are "subhuman" or average; only a tiny percentage rates above 5).
• Clavicular uses this terminology to justify why obviously beautiful people (like Sydney Sweeney) aren’t “truly attractive.”
  • "Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed... she's really not that much of a looker in her face."
    — Clavicular on Michael Knowles Show (33:56)
• Critical Commentary: Hosts highlight the sheer emptiness and misery underlying these attempts to treat bodies and attraction like commodities.

7. Clavicular: Biography & Persona (59:52–1:05:33)

• Liv pieces together Clavicular’s adolescence: awkward, probably isolated, heavily involved in looksmaxing and incel forums from age 15.
• His posts reveal a penchant for ritualized social avoidance, self-loathing, and the competitive agony of online beauty hierarchies.
  • "I try to go an entire day without talking... Whenever I talk, I give away my blue pill and reveal my mental issues.”
    — Quoting young Clavicular’s forum post (60:06)
• The persona (and business) is built on a mixture of edgy honesty, internalized ideology, and a desperate hustle for social media engagement.

8. The Dangers & Real-Life Consequences (68:17–1:12:12)

• Clavicular publicly documents his dangerous and sometimes illegal attempts at “looksmaxing”: unlicensed cosmetic procedures (on himself and others), steroids, crystal meth for weight loss, surgeries.
• The hosts express alarm at how common these regimens and self-mutilation rituals (e.g., "bone smashing") have become among young men online.
• Quote:
  "The man is chronically addicted to swallowing a spider to catch a fly... Going on steroids like Tren to minimize time at the gym, then taking muscle relaxers and anti-seizure meds..."
  — Liv Agar (73:43)
• Crash, university expulsion, online infamy, and dependence on internet grift follow.

9. Camp, Irony, and the Problem with Awareness (99:02)

• The hosts point out that while many posters/memes use the language “ironically,” the line between bit and true belief is gone—especially for a generation with no barrier between online and real life.
• Attempts to undercut Clavicular (and his ideology) with ridicule don’t make a dent; he’s operating within a system that will always reproduce another “antihero” avatar if he vanishes.
• Quote:
  "There's no right way to deal with this kind of stuff... Clavicular is not your opponent."
  — Julian Feeld (80:18)

10. Sincerity and Suffering: The Real Clavicular? (95:54)

• Despite the performativity, the hosts sense real pain. A highlighted rant by Clavicular laments being treated as a "character" and describes life as hell:
  "Do you think that I’m doing this as a form of entertainment when I have to stay up for three days in a row high on crystal meth, right? Trying to suppress my appetite and get hollow cheeks... This is hell for me."
  — Clavicular (94:38)
• Hosts debate whether he’s a true believer or a knowing grifter—ultimately, Liv argues the pain is genuine, not just an Andy Kaufman bit.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:47 | Liv Agar | "The memes and the culture have gotten so big, they've hit really critical mass." | | 12:14 | Julian Feeld | “It’s a theater of cruelty... the first piercing of the veil of like, you’re behind your keyboard...” | | 15:10 | Liv Agar | "Mog, originally from the acronym Alpha Male of the Group, or amog, was shortened a letter and made into a verb..." | | 18:31 | Referenced Meme | "If your circle isn't discussing Clavicular running into a frat leader at ASU and getting brutally frame mogged..." | | 33:56 | Clavicular | "Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed. She's got the eyes of doom with no infraorbital support..." | | 49:15 | Liv Agar | "It would functionally serve as a factory to produce body dysmorphia..." | | 60:06 | Julian (reading)| "Try to go an entire day doing your normal regime without talking... my dog is the only female I will ever feel a connection to." | | 73:43 | Liv Agar | “The man is chronically addicted to swallowing a spider to catch a fly... going on steroids like Tren to minimize gym time, then taking muscle relaxers and anti-seizure medication to manage the effects...” | | 94:38 | Clavicular | "Do you think that I'm doing this as a form of entertainment... This is hell for me..." |

---

Segment Timestamps: Major Themes and Transitions

• [00:49] - [03:16]: Introduction, tongue-in-cheek framing, initial rundown of “incel slang”
• [05:12]: Defining looksmaxing/subculture overview
• [07:14] – [20:00]: The ASU incident; viral meme explosion & language explanation
• [35:05]: Obsessive “science” of beauty; introduction of PSL scale
• [49:15]: Body dysmorphia factory; subculture histories (PUAHate, SlutHate, Lookism)
• [59:52] – [1:05:33]: Clavicular’s biography; forum posts; persona analysis
• [1:08:00]: Real-life consequences of looksmaxing rituals; surgeries and drugs
• [1:20:00]: IRL streaming, the Kik.com culture, and performance for clout
• [1:33:00]: Parody, irony, and sincerity; “no separation between character and person” in Gen Z
• [1:56:00]: Is it a grift or true belief? Clavicular’s despair and the bleak endgame

---

Tone, Style, and Dynamics

• The hosts mix dry humor, absurdist riffing, and genuine sadness for a generation locked in self-optimization and self-loathing.
• They balance critical analysis (on the commodification of beauty, the cult of online virality, the dangers of looksmaxing) with empathy and horror at what young people undergo and perform for validation.
• Much of the episode’s appeal lies in the interplay between Liv’s up-close reporting/context, Julian’s psychological takes, and Jake’s “elder Millennial” attempts to comprehend the subcultural weirdness.

---

TAKEAWAYS

• Clavicular represents both a symptom and a cause of post-internet generational malaise—his pain, prominence, and grotesque rituals are both laughable and seriously alarming.
• Looksmaxing, as a subculture and ideology, offers the illusion of control and self-improvement but is really a factory for body dysmorphia, cruelty, and economic exploitation.
• The semi-ironic, meme-rich language of these online spaces is both a shield and a trap; it lets users avoid self-awareness, but also amplifies the self-hate and alienation.
• There is no “right” way to respond to these weird cultures—mocking, condemning, or ignoring all seem equally futile, as the structure generates a new avatar whenever one burns out.

---

Further Reading and References

• Will Stancil's viral post and TikTok memes — see timestamps [18:31], [19:05].
• Taylor Lorenz/Will Sommer reporting — referenced for backstory.
• Looksmax.org, PUAHate, Lookism.net, PSL rating explainer threads (background source).

---

Final Reflections

QAA concludes that Clavicular’s very existence and appeal are tied to a technologically-mediated, algorithm-boosted collapse of boundaries between performance and reality, humor and hate, irony and true belief. The culture that spawned him isn’t going anywhere—but he is a particularly sharp and tragic avatar of it.

---

For more on meme cultures, internet subcultures, and their real-world effects, explore QAA’s miniseries and bonus content at cursedmedia.net or qaapodcast.com.

Transcript

[Liv Agar]

Sam, if you're hearing this, well done.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You found a way to connect to the Internet. Welcome to the qaa podcast, episode 360, the brutal frame mocking of clavicular. As always, we are your hosts, Jake.

[Julian Fields]

Rockatansky, Liv Agar and Julian Fields.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Woo.

[Julian Fields]

No, we gotta put in some like, sound effects or something. That's good. That's good. That is how TV stings open. Breaking news everyone. Breaking news. Hot off the press, Clavicular ran into a frat leader at ASU and got brutally frame mocked by him. Sources are even saying that Clavicular was mid jester gooning when a group of foids came and spiked his cortisol levels. Is ignoring the foids while munting and mogging moids more useful than SMV Chad fishing in the club? Keep listening to find out.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This sounds like dialogue from like a LucasArts point and click adventure, you know what I mean?

[Julian Fields]

It's actually bordering on Clockwork Orange, like level of made up words.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Totally.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I said this later, but like it really is camp. At a certain point it becomes performance art.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what else is gesture maxing but performance art?

[Liv Agar]

Yes, folks, we are doing a clavicular episode. Feel like it was long overdue to do another looks maxing thing. I did 12 or so years ago, but the memes and the culture have gotten so big, they've hit really critical mass to the point that like all of my younger Gen Z relatives know who this is and what's going on here. It's just completely ubiquitous.

[Julian Fields]

It's a disaster.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

When you first told us about bone smashing and look smacking and stuff like that and mewing, I was like, well, that's cool. That that was kind of a flash in the pan that never took. And then fast forward and it's like this 20 year old and his entire crew have somehow made this the main cultural conversation, which makes sense. Like again, if you're circling the drain, like at this point, we're at the hair clog. Like we're down in the tube already. We're at the first of several absolute rat king style hair clogs.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This is where we've reached a point where Green Gobbler can no longer help you. There's nothing you can pour into this drain.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, you could pour like several of those bottles of highly toxic chemicals and it would never, never touch a single hair on this one.

[Jake Rockatansky]

For the rest of your life, you're going to be standing in a quarter inch of lukewarm water in your own filth.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

If your age is closer to Jake or Julian than it is to me, you may be wondering what a clavicular even is. What's an and Freud? How does one even gesture goon to begin with? And these are great questions.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah, Freud is interesting. The only thing I can think of is the Dom Domino's pizza.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, you don't even know what foid is. This is gonna be really good episode. Jake does not know anything about this. I have poisoned myself in preparation and was already a little bit curious. And Liv clearly, you know, is driving the show.

[Liv Agar]

I was born in it.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, she was born.

[Jake Rockatansky]

All I gotta say is this. I pulled up a video, one video of clavicular, and showed it to my partner to be like, you know, have you seen this guy? Do you know about clavicular? And she looked at me like, why are you watching that? Like, she looked at me seriously disturbed. Like, maybe a bigger conversation needed to be like, no, I don't know anything about this guy, but why are you watching. Why are you watching these videos? And I was like, oh, well, it's for work. Like, I felt guilty. All of a sudden, you and many.

[Julian Fields]

Many parents across the land are having this exact experience, you know, just being like, wait, this is really what you're watching? I mean, Liv kind of has the top of the cheekbone here. I can see it's a bit reddish and it seems. Are you, like, starting with plushies or. What level of, you know, bone. Bone crushing are you at? Because I can see. I can see it is definitely shaping up. It's shaping up.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Let's just say I'm. I'm in the pipeline. Let's put it that it has been said that all Gen Z slang is invented by black people, gay people, and far right incels. And wouldn't you know, all of the terms we'll be discussing today originate from the lattermost group.

[Julian Fields]

Damn.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy? The QA podcast, talking about far right incels.

[Julian Fields]

We should focus on the two first ones. They seem way more interesting.

[Liv Agar]

It seems more.

[Julian Fields]

We should be discussing, like, mother and shit like that. What are we. What are we doing here?

[Liv Agar]

We should be discussing cunt quakes.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I don't know any of this.

[Liv Agar]

That would be much more fun.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Teach Jake what mothering is.

[Jake Rockatansky]

What is.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, get Jake to take a shit on the mother toilet.

[Liv Agar]

Exactly.

[Julian Fields]

Don't worry about it, Jake.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay?

[Liv Agar]

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it for another episode.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's okay.

[Julian Fields]

There's not going to be any overlap. So don't worry.

[Liv Agar]

Not at all. But more specifically, we'll be talking about an incel adjacent form turned Internet subculture called looksmaxing, which has polluted the minds of many a young zoomer into the belief that all success in life is driven by one's proximity to conventional beauty. The influence of this chud coded Internet subculture has appeared to peak alongside its most well known and thoroughly made fun of influencer, a 20 year old self help guy named Clavicular who's risen to Internet stardom by making the rounds on various manosphere far right adjacent podcasts and Internet shows as an ambassador of the looksmaxing ideology.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, don't they have him on like fresh and fit, surrounded by what they call of demons?

[Liv Agar]

Yes, yeah, the, that classic the podcast where it's all of the onlyfans girls just being like berated by right wing chuds.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, they put him at the center.

[Liv Agar]

And he lectures them surprisingly symbiotic relationship because all those girls get like a shit ton of money from it. But he's like, oh, you're, you know, mid face ratio is like 0.8, which is suboptimal, which means that you're ugly. You're actually a 4 out of 10. It's just talking like.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

When you've ever seen.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, he's talking to the most beautiful woman you ever see, telling her that her maxilla is recessed.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jake Rockatansky]

And he's named after a bone.

[Liv Agar]

Yes, the clavicle.

[Julian Fields]

But it's mostly it has to do with his shoulder width. That's his. That's his big claim to fame.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Shoulder width.

[Julian Fields]

He's looking real top heavy.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Is Clavicular. Is that a made up word or could I find that in Webster's?

[Julian Fields]

I mean it could be the adjective of a clavicle.

[Liv Agar]

I think it is the adjective of clavicle. Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, like, oh, I have clavicular pain.

[Liv Agar]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It reminds me.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You know what it kind of sounds like? It sounds like bunicula.

[Julian Fields]

You know, sounds like funicular.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You guys know bunicula, Celery stalks at midnight?

[Julian Fields]

No, but I do like word associations. So go ahead.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Vampire Rabbit. Series of successful children's books.

[Liv Agar]

That's right.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Bunnicula. You guys don't know Jake is gonna.

[Julian Fields]

Immediately go into a fugue state and try to like just word associate himself out of every paragraph.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. When this is done, I am swishing. I am swishing back and forth. I'm trying to escape from this episode before we've even started I would prefer.

[Julian Fields]

Not to be here. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Jake, get in the cage.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm here. I'm ready.

[Liv Agar]

But while we'll get to what looks maxi even is in a minute, it might help to get a quick sample of some of the memes that have accompanied Clifficular's meteoric rise in the past few months. They mainly come from a February 5th clavicular live stream on the website Kik. In this stream, Clavicular is visiting Arizona State University in what people call an IRL stream, where content is generated by the streamer interacting with people in public places, oftentimes in an environment that's completely uncontrolled by the streamer.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, so you have the camera guy and they, they have the little lights and they're in the middle of the party and usually he's being insanely rude or trying to get a girl to do the Roman or like the Roman salute, as they put it. Or say the N word. Of course. That's another classic.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, just saying controversial stuff. There's one stream I saw where like he was getting kicked out of a place because he refused to stop saying the N word and some guy like is like about to beat him up and then he's like, oh, you know, he runs away. He's being antisocial and has an environment to encourage it basically, which is really all kick streams if you need a summary.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, it is, it is interesting because it's definitely a culture that's. That's new. The whole like kick offshoot. There's just truly no end to the depravity whether, you know, gambling or self harm. I mean, this is like if Twitch took a little page from the book of that insane, you know, crypto coin website where people could stream themselves doing horrible things to themselves, you know, to increase the value of their meme Coin Pump fun. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Everything just melting together. But it's especially like all of the worst vices of our time, you know, just like human trafficking, hard drug use, gambling. Like, it is truly like the seven sins, like getting together and founding a platform. Really cool.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. At one point in the stream, Clavicular enters a frat party and a very ripped frat bro in a muscle shirt whose name is Varys asks him for a photo.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's like Varys has joined your party.

[Julian Fields]

May I have May, please, sir, may I have some clout?

[Liv Agar]

The most fucked up thing Varys has done since killing Kevan Lannister. While a normal person might react to these two posing for a photo by Saying, wow, look at these two handsome young men. That is not the looksmaxer way. And Clavicular's livestream was immediately filled with chatters. Posting a single word that perfectly describes the attitude they take towards all human social relations. Mogged. I posted a screenshot here for the boys of just mogged in all caps from literally everyone. Just immediately, yeah, holy height. Mogged. Mogged.

[Julian Fields]

Mogged. Mog. Mogged. Mog. Mogged. And this is how it starts because at first, of course, you're going to have an orbit mogul and before you know it, you've got a guy, Chad, fishing, he's frame mogging. And then a clipper just determines it. He just writes that headline and then from then on, everyone's reacting to the headline of that one clipper. And it's good, it's. It's good. It's a good ecosystem. And part of it is in.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay, okay, wait, wait.

[Julian Fields]

Pakistan.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Hold on.

[Julian Fields]

It's a giant bank full of phones.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Strapped to like, I'm opening my duolingo. I'm opening my duolingo app really quick. Okay, I understood most of that. What do you. What's a clipper? Is that somebody who clips the scene and then sort of frames it as what happened within their clip.

[Julian Fields]

Liv, is this about correct?

[Liv Agar]

I think that's about right. We'll go through it in a second. But that is, there are professional clippers who get little clips to get the most viral. And on X, the Everything app, they actually make money off of it. So they have an incentive to drive engagement, which is good for culture, I think.

[Jake Rockatansky]

So they don't like Clavicular, so he's kind of like a villain. And you watch his content to like, hope that somebody's like, better looking than him or knows how to hold their like, face muscles in a way that's more attractive than him. Am I sort of in the.

[Liv Agar]

It's. It's kind of a spectrum of cruelty here where it's like some people might really look up to him and be like, oh, but. But like it's on a spectrum from that to someone who's just like, I hate this guy and I'm going to be trolling him and I wish. Wish bad for him, which is really like the Internet subculture of looks. Maxine. Where it comes from is really. It's just like, it's like kind of pepe form cruelty, prepay in cell form cruelty and giving other people body dysmorphia by critiquing them when you know there's nothing Especially wrong with their looks.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm not sure I would have survived this era if I was this age group now.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's really bad.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Like, I had a tough time with no Internet, no nothing. Just the idea that I had a feeling. I had a feeling that there were some people at school that didn't like me or were making fun of me behind my back or subtly to, you know, it was something that I would think about at home, you know, or during school, but it was nothing that I could see, like, clipped, posted and sort of headlined anywhere else, you know.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, it does strike me as a kind of physical performance of the kind of detachment that the Chans kind of created, I suppose, like that feeling of total anonymity.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, interesting.

[Julian Fields]

Being able to be cruel to someone with absolutely no kind of guardrails over what you say and no repercussions over. Over what you say either. And so here the question is, like, can this process of streaming, having a guy with a backpack and a camera following me everywhere, being mic'd up, all this stuff, can it create enough distance so that even despite the fact that I am standing in front of the person, I can still treat them like I would treat another chatter on the chance? So just like that, like you said, just a theater of like, of cruelty. Can he say that? But basically just transposing years of, like, what the Chans have already been puking up onto a real life setting. Like, watching a person react or watching a person kind of, you know, draw closer or run away, as very many times happens with him. I don't know. It's very fucking weird. I think it's like an attempt. It's the first piercing of that veil of like, oh, you're behind your keyboard, your keyboard warriors. It's like, not anymore as much. I mean, or at least there's an attempt at bridging that gap and being like, well, no, this can actually apply to real life. You know, for people who are online poisoned and very much lost in these hallways, it must feel pretty good to feel like your culture's finally physically spilling out. You have video evidence of it. You get to see people react. So he's kind of an avatar of your cruelty. If you had the balls to sacrifice yourself on the pyre of visibility, which is what he's doing, then I think you become a kind of hero for all these people who wish they could treat people the way that they treat people on the chance. But in real life, their frustrations against their family and friends and any, you know, potential partner who's spurning them.

[Liv Agar]

It's very much so a Trump 2 microcosm where it's like, well, you're allowed to say that because, you know, woke is gone now. Which is. Which is starting to be less the case. But it's still certainly been the case for Clavicular. I mean, Taylor Renz has a good video on Clavicular. She talks more about, like, he was in this, like, TikTok influencer circle that was, like, pretty big, like, the cookieverse with this guy named Cookie King at the center. He's like, this has got 3 million views on TikTok. And like, they're kind of, like, not politically correct, but they're, like, kind of safer. And there was some controversy because it's like, hey, your friend Clavicular won't stop saying the N word. And they were like, oh, yeah, we're sad about that. And then they distanced themselves for a week and then they just went back to being hanging out with them. And like, no one cares.

[Julian Fields]

No one cares because, yeah, the clout. The cloud is going to. Is going to eat all.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

I think everyone's kind of correct in that we won't remember this moment. We won't remember recording this episode. If you ask. If you ask any of us in a few years who Clavicular is, we'll be like, what?

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

And so I think, like, they have correctly ascertained that, like, the. The darkness is eating us faster than ever. It's eating history, it's eating personality, it's eating moment, it's eating emotion. It's like everything is being swallowed up into this, like, dark void so quickly. And I think they have figured that out. They are kind of priests of, like, a new generation.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

In a strange way, in that they know who and what to worship, what is a shibboleth and what is a. An actual, like, piece of iconography to worship.

[Liv Agar]

Mog, originally from the acronym Alpha male of the group, or amog, was shortened a letter and made into a verb. Coming to stand in for instances where one member of a gender is more physically attractive than another.

[Julian Fields]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. I don't want to be rude here, but, like, there was that. That woman who. Who was like, oh, I just butt mogged these zoomers.

[Liv Agar]

Oh, I love that.

[Julian Fields]

Also came from amog.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's. Mog is a pretty old term in terms of Internet lingo, but originally still did. Yeah, yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Come from that Alpha male of the group.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Which is. I think. I think it's. Yeah. Mainly Bodybuilding forums from like, more than a decade ago. So it's been on like kind of chan lingo, chan incel lingo for like quite a while. It's only really broken into the mainstream in the last couple years. So, yeah, the buttmog, these zoomers girl, the lady was. She was just, you know, in the kind of incel adjacent right wing coded culture, right? Looks maxers, like cavicular, are obsessed with mogging. Every social interaction with a member of the same sex is necessarily a competition. It was always, objectively speaking, a Victorian the goal in life is to mog as many people as possible and to ensure that you are never mogged by others. It is a mog eat mog world. Yet there are many different ways that one can MOG another. You can add a prefix of your choosing to the term in order to specify exactly how one individual is physically superior. In the case of clavicular in the ASU frat boy, there was a serious case of frame mogging where Clive's frame was noticeably smaller than the man beside him. Ironically, frame mogging is closer to the original usage of the term mogging by bodybuilder forums, who were first and foremost focused on the male physique and getting as big as humanly possible. But looks maxers would extend the usage of the term mog to any comparable trait that might affect one's heterosexual dating outcomes. A normal person would hopefully think very little of an event like Clavicular posing beside an ASU frat boy who happens to have a bulkier frame than him. Sometimes people are going to be bigger than you, and that's okay. Just a message to Clavic there. If he's watching, I have like a weird mothering instinct to him. I like, feel so bad for him.

[Julian Fields]

I just love this. This is so good that we finally have that written as a script line. And that's okay.

[Liv Agar]

This is especially if you're already clearly a conventionally attractive man, as clavicular is. But it wasn't just Clav's kickchat that has terminal looks. Maxer brain and Clavicular has also been completely consumed by the looksmaxing ideology. Following his brutal frame mogging by Varys, he immediately comments on the frat bro's.

[Julian Fields]

Physique, saying, damn, you got me by a lot. I stopped gymming. Yeah, dude, Fuck.

[Liv Agar]

This event would only become truly noteworthy, though, in the grand scheme of Internet sumer culture. Later that day, after a Twitter user named biggyclipse posted a video of the incident with a caption that read Clavicular.

[Julian Fields]

Ran into a frat leader at ASU and got brutally frame mocked by him.

[Liv Agar]

This post would garner 14 million views, a vast majority of whom likely had a similar reaction to the sentence. As the average listener of this podcast.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, they smashed their head against a wooden beam until it split open.

[Liv Agar]

They were so fucking angry.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, they're doing bone smashing, but it has no aesthetic purpose. It's trying to, like, cave in the front of your brain.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. And just like that, a viral meme was born as multiple corners of the Internet joined hands to make fun of the ridiculous way that looks. Masters talk about innocuous human social interactions. To give a few examples of some viral posts related to the incident, Will Stancil's zippy 2011 Honda Fit received 35,000 likes on a post that read this.

[Jake Rockatansky]

If you're 25 to 30 and your main circle isn't discussing Colonial Dash Clavicular running into a frat leader at ASU and getting brutally frame mogged by him, then it's time to find a new circle. Your network is your net worth.

[Julian Fields]

Ah, yes, this meme.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This is like your. I know this. Actually, I know this. This is you from. I can't remember who said it, but they're like, you and your friends should only be talking about, like, going to the gym, like, and, like, money.

[Liv Agar]

These classic grinds.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, this one is good because there's only one thing.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's just that.

[Julian Fields]

It's just. Clavicular running into a frown.

[Liv Agar]

Jaketropoulos received 20,000 likes on a post with an attached photo of Paul Revere's midnight ride that read clavicular was frame mogged.

[Julian Fields]

Clavicular was frame mogged.

[Liv Agar]

Yet this didn't just explode on Twitter. Z EB on TikTok received 350,000 likes on a video that said this.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Notice how they scheduled the super bowl right after Clavicular got frame mogged by.

[Liv Agar]

The ASU frat leader.

[Julian Fields]

And I haven't heard from Faze Banks in a while.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I feel like he's got something to do with this.

[Julian Fields]

I am sick of people getting older. I don't want Gen Alpha people to have a mustache. I think that's wrong and I don't like it. And it shows that we're all getting older, you know?

[Liv Agar]

No, the. The porn stache is big. Like consumers. It's really in.

[Julian Fields]

Really? Yeah, yeah. They're going full Australian. If you go to Australia, it's like. I mean, they haven't really. Americans haven't really properly readopted the mullet. But over there it's just like mullet mustache is like the classic dude.

[Liv Agar]

Mm. Skyler Max received 350,000 likes on a post where he appears to be in conversation with someone in an office setting discussing the two super bowl halftime shows.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Which halftime show did you watch yesterday? No, I was watching how clavicular got.

[Julian Fields]

Frame mogged at the ASU by the frat leader. The what? Fucking fake news. That's the best part about these clips is that they're totally just wrong. Or like they'll reframe something totally wrong. Like this guy. Not in a frat. Not even in a frat. Which is great. It's good that he was a in their brain. They're like, well, if he wasn't a frat, he'd be the leader. Obviously they defer to the largest frame.

[Liv Agar]

Yes. The concept of a frat leader is awesome. He's like a hierarchy.

[Julian Fields]

There are, there are, there are. Yeah, there is that hierarchy. It's just that he's not in it.

[Liv Agar]

No, he's definitely not. He's just there.

[Julian Fields]

But they just assumed. Yeah, I mean, not only are we going to put him in a frat that he's not in, but hey, why not? He's the leader too. It's perfect. It's a perfect headline and it went viral because it's just like whoever's brain can like invent this extra little piece of information is what made this work. Like ASU frat leader is a very key term in this headline.

[Jake Rockatansky]

To me, this just feels like people. It seems kind of like fun and ironic. You know, it's like they want to create news out of something so meaningless because the real news is so depressing.

[Julian Fields]

I mean, it is a bit like the Andrew Tate thing, right? Where it's like this guy's huge. What is happening. And then a lot of people just hate watch it. It's like Liv said, there's layers of cruelty and voyeurism here.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

It's important to note that the original poster of the video Biggie clips is a right wing manosphere related clip channel with a blue checkmark. Meaning they are one of many people on that website who is able to make money off their post receiving engagement. Often giving users this direct incentive to drive clicks will greatly decrease the quality of posts on a website. As cheap rage bait and easily reproducible, unproductive discussions dominate discourse. Yet sometimes, and I would like to emphasize very rarely, the monetary incentive to posts produce a gem so bright you can't help but Notice it when browsing the Internet three websites away.

[Julian Fields]

Wow. I want to see your vision of the Internet. It's like a, like a, like a city block.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, no, it's three, three houses down. I was not on Twitter for this whole week because, you know, at some points in my life I actually care about my mental well being.

[Julian Fields]

Meanwhile, Jake is still living in geocities in a neighborhood of his choosing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

And that's where I'll stay. We've got a beautiful community pool.

[Liv Agar]

Also not even on Instagram or TikTok, but I still, I still felt the, the glow of this meme. I can't even remember where. Like maybe I was looking at like poll or something to like check far right stuff.

[Julian Fields]

It brought me back on Twitter and I, I went down a rabbit hole. I watched so much clavicular.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I think I'm getting like phased out of pillidness.

[Julian Fields]

He's getting phase banks out, bro.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I think I'm getting phased. Yeah, Phased clanned out. It's the same way, you know, like video games are kind of starting to sort of like phase me out as well. And I feel like social media and like the culture and like I'm feeling that like George Clooney, you know, floating out into space like at the end of gravity, you know.

[Julian Fields]

Jake, did you not know that they did a recall on your model? Like it was faulty to begin with. Don't worry about it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm like Johnny Five. I'm like the. I was supposed to be a military weapon, but. But at some point I smoked like a real weird strain of do and like just became like kind of like a fun friend.

[Liv Agar]

A day after clavicular was frame mogged on February 6, another blue check clip farmer named Chromeheart 600 would take advantage of the buzz surrounding clavicular and looksmaxing terminology to post a clip of clavicular interacting with a group of women during an IRL stream. He would caption the post.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This clavicular was mid gesture gooning when a group of foids came and spiked his cortisol level. Crying emoji is ignoring the foids while munting and mogging moids. More useful than SMV chat fishing in the.

[Julian Fields]

Even I.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Even I am like, come on, it's beautiful Jabberwocky shit. This is, this is, this is. Come on. Like this can't be real. They're doing this as a joke. It's a big bit. It's ironic.

[Julian Fields]

Okay, so I need two, two explanations here. Munting and then smv.

[Liv Agar]

That's okay. That's a pretty. That's a pretty high score, I would say, in terms of, like, intrinsically understanding. Jake, how many.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, no, no, no.

[Liv Agar]

How many of these words are your. Is there a question mark on I.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Don'T know what foid means. I don't know what munting means. I know what mog because you just explained it. I don't know. Moids. I don't know. SM feet. I can make a guess on Chad fishing. Jester gooning. I don't know. Cortisol levels, I guess, is like, you feel bad they got you in some kind of way. It's like laser tag, you know, like, you got hit, your thing lights up, they spiked your cortisol.

[Liv Agar]

Okay. I would assume that's about the average of the listening base in terms of understanding this.

[Julian Fields]

That's all you have to say? Not going to explain any of it. Just wanted to ascertain how out of touch you all are.

[Jake Rockatansky]

No, you got to tell us. Come on.

[Liv Agar]

The fact that you, dear listener, probably have no fucking clue what any of this means is by design, because this is broadly not actually how looks maxers talk. It is, in a certain sense, camp. And that is exactly what the people had been asking for with this tweet accruing 30,000 likes and 24 million views. Mighty Keef gained 24,000 likes on a reply to the tweet that read, horrible.

[Julian Fields]

Day for the English language.

[Liv Agar]

Midas Overwatch received 8,000 likes on a quote tweet of the post that said this.

[Julian Fields]

This is the last thing my grandfather said to me before he took his own life.

[Liv Agar]

Officer K would quote tweet the post with a photo of Ryan Gosling's character in Blade Runner with this gesture.

[Julian Fields]

Gooning. Interlinked. Frame mogging. Interlinked. Gesturefoid. Interlinked. Cortisol levels spike. Interlinked.

[Liv Agar]

It's a great Ryan Gosling impression, Julian. Thank you.

[Julian Fields]

You're so welcome. Yeah, absolutely.

[Liv Agar]

People would be so just awestruck by this terminology that it would spawn an entirely new type of ironic posting style where users would pretend to be clavicular, defending look smacksing warriors. One example comes from this Instagram account.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Zackwaslive first sent a spy to Framework live on purpose. Then they arrested him. Now they're craving random words like jester gooning to try to discredit and destabilize our community. I'm officially asking Harvard to launch an investigation into this whole thing. Okay, I'm gonna get to the bottom of who's trying to destroy our community.

[Liv Agar]

This is Part of the broader kind of Internet reaction. I mean even, even made by the original post by Chromeheart itself, where people are pretending to be looks maxers, they're pretending to be devastated by clavicular getting frame mogged. They're pretending to be devastated by the looks max community being under attack.

[Julian Fields]

Everyone's pretending to think it's great.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. I mean that's the problem is when a lot of people, especially a lot of young men, start pretending to do ironic far right misogyny kind of, you know what happens.

[Julian Fields]

Uh huh. Everything works out and everyone knows it's a joke.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. And everyone's fine. Everyone on poll is doing a bit on 4chan QAnon was a bit and it's all a good time and nothing bad happens.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

That user ironically pretending to be a looksmaxer was correct in his assessment that Jester gruding, for instance, is a made up word that sort of sounds like it should be related to looksmaxing. It's seemingly just a goofy combination of the term jestermaxing which is becoming more attractive by being funny or charismatic, as well as the word gooning or of course the act of jerking off for hours at a time without coming.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Interestingly, it seems like the virality of the Jester Gooning post has retroactively given the term some meaning to shamelessly steal an idea from a short video made by the creator. Etymology nerd. Gooning as a suffix has now begun to function as an ironic subversion of the phenomena of maxing, where someone is ostensibly trying to max some trait of theirs for the sake of self improvement, but ends up worse off as an example, in response to Clavicular being criminally charged for using a fake ID shortly after the ASU stream, someone claimed that he was felony gooning. It appears that the author of that tweet really is the Shakespeare of our time.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, it's also now like gooning will be applied to, you know, the reading at felonies and stuff like that.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. While many of the words in that post were made up, some bits of it do have a coherent meaning derived from the looksmaxing community. And explaining these terms might help you, dear listener, understand the luxmaxing ideology a bit better. I've been edging you all, I've been gooning you all what the tweet actually means. But it's time.

[Julian Fields]

It's time to understanding Nut Max goon.

[Liv Agar]

It's time to knowledge max something. Yeah, one big meme that came out of this post was anxiety being represented as having one's cortisol level spiked. This is certainly par for the course for looksmaxers as it renders anxiety a problem for one's long term physical attractiveness. Looking at the looksmaxing forum, it does seem clear that they are pretty obsessed with cortisol levels, with users posting cortisol mining guides to decrease it as much as possible. Yet in typical looksmaxing fashion, many of these guides have pretty reasonable strategies to reduce stress, like increase sleep and exercise, but also have more avant garde methods for the looks. Max are willing to take more risks, including things such as injecting anabolic steroids.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, classically makes you more calm.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Definitely doesn't put you into a fight or flight.

[Liv Agar]

It is odd because I looked it up and it does. It does seem like there's a link directly with cortisol levels that it reduces.

[Julian Fields]

Like it lowers them.

[Liv Agar]

Oh, apparently, yeah. I mean, the thing that I knew immediately is that anyone who's on roids is just like the most anxious human being alive.

[Julian Fields]

But no, they're actually common.

[Liv Agar]

They're actually, their cortisol levels are, I guess, less. I think steroids just like destroys your endocrine system, so maybe your body just stops producing cortisol or something. To return to the viral tweet, we were just talking about the phrase munting in the broader sentence ignoring the foids, while munting and mogging moids is also an interesting one. I've definitely heard looks masters use this term in reference to improving their physical attraction. The only problem is that munting appears to signify having sex with dead bodies.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, okay.

[Liv Agar]

And honestly, I do have to admit defeat on this one because, you know, the worst thing that you can do as a zoomer is not being on a joke. An obscure joke.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting old.

[Liv Agar]

It's your old.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's how you know.

[Liv Agar]

It's like older people getting angry at the 6, 7 jokes. It's like the joke is that you're not in on the joke and you're not in that joke and you're mad. So I'm laughing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're mad that you're not in on the joke. I might not even know what the joke is, but I know that I'm not mad about it. And you are.

[Julian Fields]

Nice.

[Liv Agar]

It's probably just like them thinking it would be funny to say that having sex with dead bodies improves your looks or something. I don't know. I don't know. I moaned.

[Julian Fields]

We just know it's not a skrilla. Song, that's all.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Munting and mogging. Moids. Do you know what moids is?

[Liv Agar]

Oh, yeah, we'll get to it. Don't worry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay. But while munting and mogging. So munting must be something like mogging.

[Liv Agar]

Well, yeah. The implication is that it's a looksmaxing thing, but it's.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Right.

[Liv Agar]

It's improving your. Your how good you look. Well, munting moids would just mean having sex with moids when they're dead.

[Julian Fields]

Okay.

[Liv Agar]

Presumably the literal meaning, but obviously I think he's just putting words together without much sense to it. Yeah. SMV chat fishing at the club does make some semblance of sense for looks maxer to say. Chat fishing is a combination of catfishing and chad, a term used for conventionally attractive, sexually successful men. So to be a chadfish is to put on the impression that one is more attractive than they are to gain access to potential mates. SMV stands for sexual market value.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, God.

[Liv Agar]

It doesn't really make sense as an adverb here because SMV chad fishing would just be the same as regular chad fishing. Nevertheless, the concept of SMV is deeply related to a key component of the looks max ideology, which is the treatment of attraction and beauty as an objective fact that can be calculated. Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. It can be determined scientifically, generally based upon the most conventionally beautiful mating partners you can attract. Therefore, your sexual market value is able to be calculated the same way the value of a commodity is. And while looks maxers do believe there are other ways of improving one's sexual market value than getting way hotter, they generally think increasing how hot you are is by far the most easy way that other avenues like status or wealth.

[Jake Rockatansky]

The way that I understand this the most is actually looking at it as if they've put, like, beauty and aesthetic into a capitalist sort of model. And they're, like, you know, commodifying. And like Julian has said in other episodes, just how do you extract the most value from something? And now that is like applying to our physical bodies.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. It's completely just reification of, you know, capitalist market values.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. And you're doing it to extract value from others by convincing them to sleep with you, which adds to your, you know, chadness or whatever because you're sleeping with tens or whatever.

[Liv Agar]

It really is such a miserable, like, way of viewing love and companionship.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, horrifying. Yeah. Totally. Utterly empty.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Like, the only thing that you can really gain from someone is, like, of objective value. It's like how you relate to, like, other buyers and sellers in the market or like, you know, a really important part of love is like not thinking with your ego, not putting your ego first, not using someone as a means to an end.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

All these people are so fundamentally empty. And you see, they see this with clavicular and they don't really understand why it's hard for them to articulate it. But it's like. Yeah. I mean, of course, if you view the world in that incredibly shallow way, your life is going to be miserable.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Unless you do a bit of meth.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. You know, you smoke some, some crystal, a bit of Tina.

[Julian Fields]

Well, it seems like he likes to snort it.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. For facial beauty, looks masters are obsessed with measurements such as mid face ratio, facial width to height ratio, chin to filstrum ratio, canthal tilt, mouth to nose, bigonal width, lower third height, and many more. And there are plenty of viral clips of clavicular using this convoluted language to explain exactly why he believes an obviously very attractive person is actually what the kids refer to as mid. Here, for example, is clavicular. On far right, agitator Michael Knowles show claiming that anyone who is attracted to Sydney Sweeney has porn brain.

[Julian Fields]

On social media, don't get a lot.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Of likes and certainly don't get branded.

[Clavicular]

Well, what, what are we talking about by hot, like, good looking? Like, some people think that, like, Sydney Sweeney is extremely attractive.

[Julian Fields]

I, I would say I don't want to scandalize anybody married man. I would say Sydney Sweeney is, is very attractive.

[Clavicular]

I would say that she's pretty malformed. Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed. Right. She's got the eyes of doom with no infraorbital support. She's really not that much of a looker in her face. I think that a lot of people with brains find her attractive because of her body.

[Julian Fields]

I don't have.

[Liv Agar]

I don't know. What are you talking.

[Julian Fields]

You're telling me that, you're telling me that if a guy finds Sydney Sweeney attractive, he's got to have.

[Clavicular]

I think that she's above average in looks, but certainly not that, like, you know.

[Julian Fields]

No, you said she's got a sunken suborbital. I forget the words that you said.

[Clavicular]

Yeah. She's got a recessed infraorbitals and a recessed upper maxilla.

[Julian Fields]

You're telling me you go to a bar?

[Clavicular]

I'm just saying she's not the pinnacle of looks that I'm talking about to actually succeed on social media. She's average to above average.

[Julian Fields]

Wow. Not even, like, to be the hottest, to succeed on social media. It's that it's only. He can only describe beauty as the image of beauty being captured, you know, in this kind of second setting.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Now that I've seen him, well, framed in, like, a professional, like, talk show studio setting and not in a vertical window at, like, a frat party. I gotta say, he's small mouth, pig nose, stick out ears. He's like, I don't understand. Like, I really don't understand. Who is he to tell people what's wrong? You see that mouth that's like. You put the slider way to the left on mouth with ears too big.

[Julian Fields]

But this is where I'd argue that. That the ideology is larger than clavicular. And clavicular is not necessarily the problem. He himself is a victim of the ideology. You will see him in many videos, like, accepting that he looks like shit or saying that he's a piece of shit and he hasn't worked out in so long, you know, like, he also is torturing himself with the same ideology.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay, well, he's honest about it.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. So that's why it's like. Yeah, he would be replaced. Like, get clavicular out of here. He'd be replaced immediately. It's like any of these commodified hierarchies, like, within the spectacle, you know, but look at me. There's no importance of the actual individual. Right. Like, you're just. You're just a slave to your ideology. And. And you have to discuss your own face in the same terms that you discuss, like, everybody else's. Unfairly, of course.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. I mean, he has insanely bad body dysmorphia.

[Julian Fields]

Of course, this is just a bunch of body dysmorphic men, like, arguing with each other.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. Look how quick I was to smallmouth him and talk about his ears. Like, look, I'm. I'm somebody who also has ears like that kind of stick out a little bit. I'm not one to talk. I had to tuck. When I played Little League, I used to tuck my ears under my hat because it made my ears stick out even more when I had the hat pulled down. So I got hat mogged.

[Liv Agar]

You're apologizing to clavicular is what you're saying.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

I don't know what's happening right now. He's getting mogged in the outfield.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm getting, like, time, time mogged. Like, I'm going back in time. I'm going back in time. And Mogging. A past version of myself that couldn't even comprehend mogging.

[Julian Fields]

So that's rude. Yeah. I've pulled up a lot of childhood pictures of myself and just kind of gone phrenology on it, you know, measuring my skull, my maxilla, like, how did it develop? You know, I love to pull up old pictures of myself and treat myself like shit.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular has helped advertise a system used by looksmaxers to rate the perceived sexual market value of an individual's face called the PSL scale, which attempts to use these many obscure facial measurements to objectively determine the value of an individual's face.

[Julian Fields]

So what does PSL stand for?

[Liv Agar]

We'll get to it. We'll get to it.

[Julian Fields]

Okay.

[Liv Agar]

Of course, this is all. I'm edging you all with knowledge.

[Jake Rockatansky]

All will be revealed.

[Liv Agar]

All will be revealed in time.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Liv is episode mocking us because she wrote the episode and knows where it goes.

[Julian Fields]

Every paragraph just ends with, you won't believe what happens next.

[Jake Rockatansky]

And we're all like, host mogging Corey. Cause he has to be on the call now to monitor and produce the Epps. But he can't say anything. He's laughing, he's smiling, he's mogging. He can't do anything. Yeah, we're sound and we're mogging Mike mogging him.

[Julian Fields]

Well, I mean, it's not our fault that you had that issue, Jake, that episode where we had to can the whole thing because you said the N word like 12 to 15 times now.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Julian's.

[Julian Fields]

He's.

[Jake Rockatansky]

He's allegation mocking me. Because he's making an unfair allegation. But now it's been put out into the open and so people are going to naturally go, well, why would he even say something like that in the first place?

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Why would he bring it up if it's not true?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. And I'm jester goon defensing. I'm. I'm in a jester. I'm in a jester pose, trying to be funny and defensive to get the audience back on my side.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. My cortisol levels are never not spiking.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, yeah, I constantly. None of this really affects me because my cortisol, it's been spiked since, I don't know, 28 or 29.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Jake is tired of feeling like he needs to fight or flight. He doesn't do either. He just naps.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I just sort of freeze.

[Julian Fields]

Perfect.

[Liv Agar]

The PSL rating system is very different from the typical one to ten, where you'd expect the average person to be around a five. This is an eight point rating system where the first four points are meant to encapsulate the bottom 90% of the population. A five being the top 5% and a perfect eight being statistically impossible. Also referred to as true Adam or true Eve. It's just like the overman of hotness.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Ubermensch.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. One popular PSL explainer thread on looksmax.org has Tom Holland, for instance, as a four, and Timothee Chalamet as a five. So, you know, for context of what the form that clavicular was immersing himself in as a teenager, you know, in relation to his incredibly low self esteem. It's a place where like, they're like, timothee Chalamet's a five. He's like, not very attractive looking face.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, but it's not just about the face. Chalamet spit that decent verse.

[Liv Agar]

He's also got a very good looking face, though.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, like he's in Dune. Clavicular is probably never gonna be in a major motion picture.

[Liv Agar]

Well, yeah, that's a part of Clavicular's kind of the way that he's gone about life. He's like, money and status are, like, not really options for me. I need to be liked. I need to get as hot as possible. It's very sad, but nobody likes anybody.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That'S trying to get as hot as possible and reminding you how you're not as possible.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, but that's the point, right? You just got frame mogged then.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. These things are too in total conflict with one another.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's a part of the pipeline. I think in general, you see this with like the, you know, anti feminist, like incel pipeline is it's like you already start having negative feelings about women, but, like, they really reinforce those negative feelings, get you further into it. And so you get more bad and social interactions and you're like, well, this must be because I don't believe in the incel ideology enough. Like, I need to go further. They become incredibly insufferable and they're like, well, these women don't want to sleep with me. The answer must be that I need to get hotter. It's just this like, terrible feedback loop.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Returning to the work of art that was the jester Gruening tweet is also a reference to both voids and moids. The first of which is a derogatory term for women that comes from Internet incel forms. It's a shortened version of the word femoid, which itself is a portmanteau of female and either humanoid or Android, denoting that women are less than human beings, artificial and foreign Lux Mexican culture originating on the Luxmaxic website has important roots directly in the 2000 and tens era Internet incel spaces I've talked about this history before, but it's worth repeating a shortened version of it to explain to you where someone like Clavicular actually comes from. The Lookswaxing board itself came out of the PSL community the same PSL as the visual scale for Waiting Faces I just talked about. This acronym stands for the three successive forums that would later coagulate into the Lookspaxing website, the first being PUA Hate or Pickup Artistry Hate. This form, originally created in 2009, was primarily made for the purpose of exposing griffs ran by pickup artist influence influencers, many of whom sold or sell online courses promising to teach any insecure young man how to gain the confidence to have sex with women. You might be surprised at how an incel adjacent manosphere form could begin with what was originally a forum made to oppose the proto manosphere. But all that members of PUA Hate really had in common was anger and possibly bitterness towards pickup artists. And hating them doesn't necessarily mean you respect women. For many of these men, the resentment they felt towards pickup artists was simply a transference of their resentment towards the women that refused to sleep with with them. And many men on the forum would simply come to the conclusion that game with the ability to convince women to sleep with you purely through charisma is a waste of time. The thing that I think fundamentally unifies all the forums I'll be talking about, including looksmaxing, is a deeply held desire by their generally young male user base to understand why women decide to sleep with certain men above others, and also why they, as a forum user are typically excluded. Members of the PUA Hate board would come to the conclusion that physical attraction was a necessary condition for picking up check chicks, and that it might not be the only thing that's required. But many of these frustrated young men felt like they were being misled by much more objectively attractive pickup artists members of the PUA community into the false belief that they could use advice that simply wasn't made for them. Some Internet forum users would react to this supposed fact about intersexual relations by taking what they called the black pill, or the belief that there is nothing that they can do at a structural level to improve their lot in life sufficiently to gain Access to women they're sexually attracted to to PUA Hate would be one of many early 2010 boards that would help solidify incel ideology. Users would become convinced that our so called sexual marketplace is structured as a hypergamy where a select few most sexually attractive men are the only ones who have sexual access to a majority of women. And of course, many form growers would also blame the supposedly hypergamous sexual dating market on feminism, imagining that it's a result of women having more power over choosing their sexual partners.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's interesting because growing up as a kid, I remember doing the same kind of thing, except it wasn't in a farm. It was like, you know, I knew I wasn't super athletic or kind of like traditionally handsome in ways that I was seeing other guys my grade be like attracted to. So I was like, oh well, maybe I'll get good at like yo yo. I got good at yo yo. I got good at devil sticks. I started playing guitar. Like I picked up my parents guitar and started teaching myself and like, and that was really. Because I was like, well, I was like, I want, you know, I want to be like an attractive person. So like. But maybe like, I sort of understand vaguely that like rock stars, you know, like get girls. So like maybe if I like beef up these skills. Yeah, I was doing the same stuff, but I wasn't like on a forum discussing it. And it's, it's, it's almost like it's like this poison of like review culture, right? Of like being like, well, what's gonna, like what's gonna be the quickest way to get the most value in like going online? Just like you're going on Amazon trying to like buy products, like, what's the highest rated? Like, what's the. Like, how do I like Max, this, this thing, you know.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. Diary of a Proto Jester Maxer. Yeah, that's, that's Jake.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Is that what that, Is that what category I would fall under into?

[Julian Fields]

Well, no, you just gesture Max, because you're like, you know, I gotta get funny.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Be charismatic.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, that's jester maxing. Absolutely.

[Julian Fields]

Storyteller. Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, but like jester. So it doesn't necessarily have like a bad connotation. It's more in the classic connotation, like, you know, someone that keeps the king sort of, sort of chuckle.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it can be goofy maxing, like clavicular. Says he's just a maxing, but just because he's kind of awkward and he acts weird. But like, it, it does generally also Stand in for like being as funny as physically possible as a way of like getting women.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I don't, I don't like try to be as funny as I may. I mean, maybe I'm more goof.

[Liv Agar]

Goof.

[Julian Fields]

Max, now we're caught in a review cycle. Jake is reviewing his own jester maxing skills.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Is that another term, a review cycle?

[Julian Fields]

Uh, no, that's just. I'm just using words.

[Liv Agar]

Those are just words.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, okay.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, those are. That's how words work.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Got it, got it. We can go on with the script.

[Julian Fields]

Yes.

[Liv Agar]

Yet there was a separate tendency on the PUA hate forum than the incel blackpilling. The shitty advice sub forum of the website was dedicated to aiding members on how to increase their physical attraction, raising it enough so they could ascend and escape in seldom, members of the subforum often embrace the LMS or looks Money status theory of why men are sexually successful. This view developed into the belief that if one does not have a significant amount of at least one of these traits, no amount of pickup artistry will help them. So there to explain it in looksmaxing terms, they're anti gesture maxing. They're like, no, it doesn't work. It didn't work for me, so it must not work period. And so the only thing that matters is looks, money and status. And as Clavicular said in I believe it Was an interview on the Adam Friedland show, like the money and status are so much more difficult to get like, you know, looks. And developing a bunch of hair brain schemes to increase your looks is clearly the easiest of the options. They've gamed it up. They developed this very elaborate decades long mind palace that justifies what they're doing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Well, that's true. It's really hard to teach yourself to be funny.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, that's true. I mean it is like a thing you have or you don't have. Charisma. Like being able to have a good conversation with someone is a bit more teachable if you're like a bit psychotic about it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

When usually people who are funny are funny because they know they can't max the looks in a traditional way. Or, or they have lower self esteem which leads to a self deprecation which leads to observing the world in a certain way. It's hard if you're a super good looking guy trying to read a book about how can I be funnier? That does seem like the harder of the options.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I mean all these forms generally are just guys who aren't getting any attention from the Opposite sex in their teen years, just like desperately trying to figure out why. And desperately trying to figure out like, what's the, what's the quickest path to pussy. And like, they're like idiot teens who obviously like, don't really understand women that well in the first place. So like a lot of their observations, like how, like, I think that's like a pretty common component of like heterosexual male socialization is going through the like, well, what's my niche here? So that like women will keep talking to me.

[Jake Rockatansky]

And the answer is so simple. It's just like going out into the world instead of like sitting, sitting, you know, at your computer. It's like signing up for classes or sports or, you know, enrolling in some kind of program or getting a job somewhere where you're just kind of like forced to kind of like be around people and interact.

[Julian Fields]

You're describing all the worst parts of life.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Exactly.

[Julian Fields]

That's the thing. I'm like, my house. Get the fuck out of here.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Exactly. That's why this is never. That's why this is like just a black hole. It's.

[Julian Fields]

I'll go with Liv's technique. Liv jestermaxes online. Then she, she posts, you know, some mogging shots where she mogs her immediate community. And then before she knows it, someone slides into the DMs and she organizes some sort of meetup.

[Liv Agar]

It's simple.

[Julian Fields]

I'm gonna go with that. You don't have to leave your house, Jake. You don't have to leave your house. In fact, you can probably do most of your dates while still sitting in the same computer chair. Why even stop streaming? Let's just go with it.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Well, I don't need to do any of this.

[Julian Fields]

You don't?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Of course, because I'm out of the game.

[Julian Fields]

Well, yeah, you're also famous actor Jeremy Piven and so you're wealthy beyond belief.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's me, famous actor Jeremy Piven. I've replaced Jake Rockatansky for years. Actually, we've been waiting until February 17, 2026 to reveal it. Julian just discovered because I put my signature frames back on.

[Julian Fields]

It's that time of the year. It's the Piven season.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I'm hair mogging Piven because I was able to regrow mine through medication while he had to get the plugs.

[Julian Fields]

Well, Liv should script Max so that we can.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Sorry, I apologize, Max, for interrupt. Maxing.

[Liv Agar]

This forum's obsession with looks as a requirement to get laid would become a self fulfilling prophecy. And average looking men would be driven deeper and deeper into self doubt about their looks by catty and cruel forum guards who'd affirm their worst fears that they aren't fucking because they're hideous. This site, as well as all of its successive forums that revolve around beauty advice to get men laid functionally serve as a factory to produce body dysmorphia. Almost like a slightly less horrifying male centered version of pro anorexia content generally geared towards Women online. In 2014, PUA Hate would be shut down as a result of the fact that incel murderer Elliot Roger posted there. Ironically, Roger was not particularly fond of the website or its users as he maintained that despite being unable to get laid, he was still very attractive. Users on the site of course would respond to him that being unable to get girls was a sign he was actually ugly. I think part of this is like it was really easy to bait him. You'd just be like no, you're ugly. Sub five gross.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like there's nothing that works better than these guys than biological determinism. They just get absolutely out of their minds with fear and anger.

[Liv Agar]

Following PUA Hate being shut down, many members would move over to a website called Slut Hate, the S in the PSL acronym.

[Julian Fields]

Oh good.

[Liv Agar]

A little bit more on the nose for like what we're doing here.

[Julian Fields]

Pua Hates Slut Hate. Can't wait to find out what the L is.

[Liv Agar]

This site dropped all pretenses of being about resentment towards pickup artists and instead focused directly on these users hatred of women. And this form would also include a write me section for men to improve their looks. And as the vitriol towards women on the site got worse, so too did how critical many users were towards each other. Because you know, it's like, oh, women are so shallow, like they're not gonna have sex with you. You have to be like a chad. Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

This is how the ideology victimizes basically everybody involved. Even the people who think they're above it, that they're the grifters, that they're the money makers of that class of user. Like everyone loses.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Because there's even resentment from them of like well, I had to get this hot to be successful. Yeah. Sleddheit would pioneer many hair brain schemes to radically alter the users bodies, which are later embraced by looksmaxers. Some would sell each other on different stacks of supplements and pills, sometimes even resulting in adolescents taking steroids. Eventually users would become tired of how moderators were running the website and some would migrate over to a website called Lookism, a board less explicitly centered around vitriol towards women and more around resentment towards more attractive people being generally treated better by society. So it's like racism or sexism.

[Julian Fields]

That's the L. Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

And that is the L. Great. That is generally true. The halo effect. People tend to treat more attractive people better on average. But what was unique about this site was not the observation that lookism exists, but instead many users believed that it was actually a good thing. So it's like if you joined racism.com because you're racist, sort of. While often semi ironic, lookism users would view uglier people as less valuable human beings. The previously mentioned PSL scale, for instance, often marks the lower points as making someone subhuman. One reason I think this viewpoint, which is also rubbed off on the looks maxing culture, spreads so effectively, is that it articulates a truth that does really rest at the core of a vast majority of people. While you should be ashamed of it, it is hard to not have some sort of positive bias towards people who you find more physically attractive. Attractive lookism can therefore position itself as simply an ideology that is being honest about a feeling we all have deep down. This is how a lot of like, especially incel culture works too, is it's like, you know, a lot of young men have resentment towards women and it's like, well, we're just being honest about the feelings we all have. We're saying the quiet part out loud.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And then you start to make the objectivity claims and, you know, just the idea that we all agree on this. Okay. This is a scale that's agreed upon, which is why most of the content is about how confusing the scale is.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a big clavicular thing. It's like, you know, the scale, like it's in your brain. I'm just making it explicit.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, exactly.

[Liv Agar]

To return to the main topic of this episode, clavicular is certainly deeply influenced by this component of looksmaxing. And he caused quite a stir, for instance, in an interview with Michael Knowles when talking about a potential presidential election between J.D. vance and Gavin Newsom this next election cycle.

[Clavicular]

Who's gonna win? It's gonna be Gavin Newsom against J.D.

[Liv Agar]

Vance. Because.

[Clavicular]

Because J.D. vance is subhuman and Gavin Newsom mugs J.D.

[Julian Fields]

Vance is subHuman.

[Clavicular]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

What makes you say that?

[Clavicular]

He's got a very short total facial width to height ratio. He's obese, very recessed side profile, whereas Newsome is like six three Chad.

[Julian Fields]

JD's very tall. JD's gotta be.

[Clavicular]

Well, still, I mean, two' six' three. Gavin Newsom obviously mogs him to death.

[Julian Fields]

So you're a newsome head. Do you prefer Newsom to the vice president?

[Clavicular]

I'm just telling you who's gonna win.

[Julian Fields]

Do you prefer him, though, Newsom being.

[Clavicular]

That much more of a mogger and, like, having a president who's like, fat?

[Julian Fields]

I don't see anything. You think he's. I don't think he's fat. I would say he's a bigger guy for sure.

[Liv Agar]

He's just like.

[Clavicular]

It's just embarrassing. Like, how are you be fat and you expect to, like, lead a country you can't even be in shape, you.

[Julian Fields]

Know, Bro, they cut to whichever right.

[Liv Agar]

Wing clip farm I took this from, cut to Taft at the end of that.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, very beautiful. Yeah, it's great stuff. Cut to Dr. Phil there in the middle.

[Liv Agar]

It's a good own. You really got clavicular. It's a good representation of this. Like, you know, he's like, I'm just telling you how it is. Like, it's not. I don't necessarily like Newsom more. It's just he mogs like he's just a more valuable human being.

[Julian Fields]

I wish this wasn't an accurate read on how stupid the electorate is, but, yeah, it is.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. I was like, man, he's got a point.

[Julian Fields]

That is. I mean, that is why these cultural niches exist is like, they exist in the festering wounds of, like, all the contradictions in our system.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Right? Sure, you can be a young man who is trying to optimize your success of finding a mate, you know, but to go online and to discuss it and to create a culture around it and content around it is, you know.

[Julian Fields]

You'Re telling me that this guy is gonna fuck the country? I don't fucking think so. This other mog guy, I mean, he's getting the whole country.

[Liv Agar]

Country.

[Julian Fields]

He's got that country going home with him right now. They'll do it on stream.

[Liv Agar]

It's important to understand the Internet milieu that clavicular comes from in order to contextualize these sort of outrageous statements. Users on the Lookism forum, for instance, were not necessarily totally sincere when they claimed that the value of a human being is entirely based on their looks. It was semi ironic and hyperbolic. This is a forum culture where users would only receive noteworthy status if they acted out the ideology of the form in the most dramatic, absurd way possible. Possible. And that would be the Same for this Forum's direct successor, looksmax.org, where a young clavicular would get his start. And clavicular has made many statements equally or more absurd than the idea that J.D. vance is subhuman for not being hot.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, he's subhuman for a totally different reason.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, exactly. Come on. He's claimed that he switched from Adderall to a small amount of crystal meth to use as a stimulant and weight loss technique, that he's abused so many steroids since being a minor that he made himself infertile, and then even later claimed on a stream that he accidentally got a woman pregnant. His entire social world, from when he was simply a 15 year old looks max power user to now when his kickstream has rocketed him into Internet stardom, has been built on making outrageous claims. Curricular is also not shy about making incredibly edgy political statements. As I think we mentioned before, he loves saying the N word and for instance has said this about the Israeli genocide in Gaza.

[Clavicular (on his own stream)]

I was going to say people in.

[Clavicular]

Palestine are actually lean maxing because Israel blows up all their food, but I didn't say that.

[Liv Agar]

That.

[Clavicular (on his own stream)]

Move to Palestine if you want to lean.

[Liv Agar]

Max. Right move.

[Clavicular]

That's what I would do. W. Oh my God.

[Julian Fields]

Jesus Christ.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I mean he just like, he does not exist in a world where there is like moral consequences or when there is moral consequences, his response is to just double down. And that has like just continually worked.

[Jake Rockatansky]

He is like a living Chan creature.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. I mean, and, and that's the crazy thing is that like that's getting a lot more common for younger people. Mm.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. They are among us and they are breaching reality. I mean, this is what, this is how Pepe started. You know, the kid yelling it out at Hillary while she's on stage because he's being, you know, egged on by people on a forum, but he's IRL there. It's, that's, that's it. It's a whole new generation where indoor, outdoor, online, offline, it's all completely blurred.

[Liv Agar]

I often find that millennials have a bit a harder time placing many of clavicular's more ridiculous ideological positions and actions because they don't quite get the way that a lot of really online gen zers do. Irony. And of course plenty of millennials and older had upbringings that were very, very online, but not online in the way that a 20 year old influencer who got his start being histrionic on a manosphere adjacent self help Forum is for Gen Z, particularly the younger ones. Online is real life. Everyone you know at school and in high school wants to be an influencer. And having access to algorithmic based content creation apps as your primary source of being social means that virality is deeply connected to relating to other people in a socially acceptable way. Way. As a very online older zoomer, I remember having a video game commentary channel as an early teen that racked up a couple thousand subscribers.

[Julian Fields]

This prepared you for your crazy taxi fame.

[Liv Agar]

This of course is because I have terminal content brain, but I would have never told a vast majority of my classmates and even casual friends about this. I used an Internet alias instead of my name and it was broadly separate from my real life activities. For younger zoomers, this isn't the case. Their attempts at Internet virality are increasingly connected with their real social world. One of my younger relatives, for instance, mentioned how one girl in her grade got chastised and even cut off by some of her friends for making a problematic TikTok.

[Julian Fields]

I've never seen any of those. Was she dressed as Anne Frank or was she like as a slave or wearing blackface?

[Liv Agar]

I honestly don't know. I'm very curious what the content of it is. It was probably like pretty tame.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, we only see or our brains are so cooked on the worst stuff that we can't even imagine what people are canceling each other over. Probably like ableism or fatphobia.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah. The distinction between who they are online and in real life has increasingly become meaningless. In the case of Clavicular, even having the option to propel the pseudonym he used on an obscure manuscript forum into Internet stardom is something that would have been entirely inconceivable even 10 years ago. And so, you know, you give these kids the option to just like get as much attention as possible. Especially like the dumber ones are going to be like, yeah, no, this is me for the rest of my Life now. Like 20 years ago you could do that. Really? You didn't have the option?

[Jake Rockatansky]

No. There were so many systems gatekeeping you now everybody, every kid has a phone and there's no, there's no middle person in between their content being seen by others and them creating it.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's like, remember when I was trying to be famous when I was 19? That was so cringe. I'm glad all that doesn't exist anymore.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I remember making stop motion videos with like a camcorder when I was growing up. I would have been absolutely all over this if I could have made little videos and edited them in a handheld device and post them where people could see them. I would have been all over this.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular would join the LooksMaxing forum@15 based on forum posts he made on the Looksmaxing website. He seems to have been an awkward kid in high school. In April of 2024, when he was 18, he would write a guide on the forum about how to avoid human social interaction as much as possible.

[Julian Fields]

I wake up 30 minutes earlier than I have to so that I don't have to see my parents in the morning. I get up at 6am for school even though I don't start for like two hours. After that, I just sit in my car and wait for it to start. Start. Don't walk into class first or last, both of which draw attention which I don't want. I just walk in the middle of the pack so no one notices. Don't follow anyone on Instagram. This will make it awkward to walk by them. Am I supposed to greet this person now? I don't want to talk to you. Don't try to make small talk then. It is custom to greet people the next day. Just ignore everyone. Never participate in class discussions. Start counting your words. You shouldn't be saying more than 50 to 100 words per day. I have gone entire days without speaking before. This should be your goal. When walking into a room, don't make eye contact with anyone. If need be, just give them a nod and walk the other way. When I get home, I try to go straight to my room without seeing my parents. I always greet my dog though, because I love her. This is the only female I will ever feel a connection to. I care greatly for my dog because she gets so happy when I come home from school. When I get home, I go straight to my room to come on looksmax.org or incels. Is for the rest of the night. Sometimes I watch a movie. I recommend you try to go an entire day doing your normal regime without talking. Whenever I talk, I give away my blue pill and reveal my mental issues. I used to have a therapist but I stopped going because of how dreadful it is. They constantly try to blue pill you and warp your sense of reality.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Wait, I don't understand give away my blue pill.

[Liv Agar]

Um, that's a good question. I think it's that he's not like based in red pilled. Like he's not ascended.

[Julian Fields]

It gives it away if he talks. Oh it shows your blue pill is showing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This is so fucked sad.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, this one's a pretty common one. I Think that people generally quote sometimes a bit too. I think at face value. There's obviously a grain of salt that needs to be taken here because Clavicular's initial claim to fame was becoming a fairly prominent user of the forum, and it's virtually impossible to stand out in a crowd like this unless you have some very ridiculous shit to say.

[Julian Fields]

Yes, I was gonna say, like, everything becomes more extreme and he wants to put it in the most intense way possible. It's green text posting, you know, I mean, this is very much an extension of the chance.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, totally. And another thread during his high school years, for instance, one where people are attacking him for having no friends and getting no bitches. It's like he feels defensive. Clavicular mentions that he actually has no problem socializing and gets plenty of women.

[Julian Fields]

I never had a problem talking to girls or getting nervous doing school presentations or whatever. Then when someone posts me on here, everyone can immediately tell I'm aspiaf, which I suppose stands for aspirational. Oh, it's not Asperger's.

[Liv Agar]

No, it is. I was just kidding.

[Julian Fields]

So it's Asperger's.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Aspirational.

[Liv Agar]

Sorry.

[Julian Fields]

This Aspie knows how to jestermax.

[Liv Agar]

It seems pretty clear, though, that Clavicular was a pretty awkward kid and I guess also an awkward adult. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Julian, you've been watching plenty of his clips. You could see it's.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, no, it feels really bad. Like when he's standing around women talking to them, he doesn't make eye contact. He's kind of. Kind of fidgeting and flipping her. I mean, that's why the camera is so important, you know, this kind of, like, mediator is because, you know, I feel like it's a bit like wearing a mask. Like, you could kind of like, put aside your feelings about yourself, and if you're on a stream, you know, you're not really there, you know, and there's this kind of feeling of safety that you feel like an anonymous Chan poster, even though you're currently talking to a person, which is why you feel comfortable being like, hey, will you throw, like, a Roman salute? Say the N word.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's like, I'm doing a bit, actually. Your honor.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, I'm doing a bit. Even if you don't want to fuck me. This whole thing will be a clip, and I'm gonna profit from it. So there's no way for me to lose in this interaction, in this transaction.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It just seems like he. He's doing the classic, like, Pickup artist shit that they hate, though, of, like, pretending that how you naturally are is just some kind of strategy. Like being awkward and not making eye contact and not talking a lot because you think it makes you less attractive the moment you open your mouth. It's like all just like internal anxieties. It's, you know, but all he's doing is just like being, you know, quite smart, actually, honestly, and presenting that as some kind of strategy or rule set to follow so that other people can become, you know, as famous, as Internet famous as he is. And he's clearly making a living off this. He doesn't have to work, you know, work retail or anything like that. So, you know.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. And by kind of deferring to ideology, you liberate yourself from any kind of risk. Right. It's like, yeah, totally. Like there's, there's a kind of greater order to things that is objective and it, you know, so anything I do isn't really me trying to do anything. I'm just explaining to you how things are and I'm just setting up situations that play out and prove, you know, that like, this way of seeing the world is correct.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

You really can't lose. That's the main thing. It's lowering risk. It's, it's like really, really, it's like a form of like intense hedging when it comes to taking any kind of emotional risk in your life. Right.

[Liv Agar]

That's it.

[Julian Fields]

Any vulnerability, that's it is totally hedged.

[Liv Agar]

Just like with many of the PUA hate forum goers, Clavicular seems to have chosen a solution to whatever social alienation he felt that called for a psychotic emphasis on his looks. And being exposed to the brutal standards these forms place on men at an early age likely helped ruin his self image even more. And like, now that he's incredibly viral, like, you see, why he is insecure is because, like, yeah, when someone is bigger than him and appears beside him, it becomes like an insanely massive meme. That's kind of his nightmare.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. That's when he gets to defer to the market and just be like, I'm ugly. Yeah, I know I'm fucking ugly. I know I'm chopped, I know I'm a low number, blah, blah, blah, just reinforcing the entire thing so everyone continues to feel miserable.

[Liv Agar]

And even before Clavicular was browsing the looksmaxing forums, he was a very large fan of far right holocaust denier Nick Voin Fuentes. Much of Fuentes's power over these sorts of impressionable Boys comes from the fact that he embraces the incel label. While many, especially millennial and older influencers and commentators on the right love to lord Nick's alleged virginity over him, they fail to understand that this is actually a key component of his appeal. He's the only one of these right wing figures who sexually frustrated teenage male virgins can relate to on this level. When they see, you know, an Andrew Tate or even a Piers Morgan make fun of Fuentes for not fucking, they also feel personally attacked, which is really.

[Julian Fields]

Funny because Fuentes has a lavender marriage to being an.

[Liv Agar]

Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, he's gay.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, that's the entire thing. Yeah, I don't get any pussy because, yeah, I'm involuntarily celibate. Not the other possibility.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I do think it's a double whammy. I think he does know what he's doing there in terms of really actively curating a young clavicular type individual into his audience. But yeah, I mean, it is just also a convenient, like, oh, yeah, I've never had vaginal sex before. Clovicia would have initially been introduced to Fuentes around the time of the Griper wars, when Nick successfully put pressure on institutions like Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA to become much more explicitly white supremacist and anti immigration. I mention this because even Fuentes's guerrilla Internet strategy of pushing conservative institutions rightward is very distinctly Gen Z. And online, it was contingent upon producing a cult following of young, impressionable males through saying what only a terminally online zoomer would be willing to say and using that cult following to make as much noise online as possible. Clavicular, from the beginning of his looksmaxing rise to fame, has been willing to say bizarre, controversial, almost antisocial things that polite society generally scoffs at. Yet many of these statements, like him openly embracing the view that less conventionally attractive people have less value, appeal to a group of young, impressionable men who are looking for someone that tells it like it is. But Claviclear did not necessarily have dreams of becoming an influencer just yet. And in 2024, he would graduate high school, which is just a reference for how fucking young he is.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Jesus Christ.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I know, it's. It's just. Yeah. And would attend a fairly small Christian university. While he had some sort of aspiration for a normal job, he was already reveling in his position as a looksmax.org micro celebrity. And while I've noted that Clavicular has likely over exaggerated both his looksmaxing regimen and the severity of many of his beliefs leaves it's still pretty clear that the guy is willing to do a lot of dangerous shit for the sake of getting hotter. He streamed himself injecting peptides into his face as a means of dissolving bits of fat and also did this to his girlfriend on stream when she was 17 years old.

[Julian Fields]

I'll have you know that that was not his girlfriend. It was in fact a woman who looks maxed herself using him as some sort of example. And obviously he's derogatory to almost everybody around him, but he makes it very clear. No, I was injecting an underage woman who is not my girlfriend in the face. But yeah, she has like a kind of before and after that they love to use because they want to show that there are examples of people who've gotten hot using his techniques. And so of course those are such rare people that he will get them on stream and inject them in the face with stuff.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, he does seem to attract a lot of very also antisocial people who are willing to use him for clout.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, Very evil. Everything is very evil all around.

[Liv Agar]

He lives in just like hell narcissism world.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

There's one lady recently who I believe pretended to be like a lesbian incel around him and saying like, oh, I didn't have a boyfriend. And then like immediately after had a stream where like her. Her virality beside clavicular was used to get like a shit ton of kick viewers and subsequently subscribers. And then she like revealed that actually she has a boyfriend and she's not an incel. That she tricked him.

[Julian Fields]

Incredible. Brutally tricked. Brutally owned, brutally limaxed content.

[Jake Rockatansky]

The people, they're depriving themselves just watching content this awful. Like this is what people spend their time following. It's like, it's like a weird sort of like mutation of like TMZ culture or something that's. Oh God, yeah.

[Liv Agar]

No, it is. It's like reality tv but like everyone is actually real. Like they're playing it up, but it's.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Like they're real and it's live.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, this is who they are. Now there's no distinction between the character and the person. He's also posted his steroid regimen at 18 claiming to have been on a 550 milligrams of testosterone a week dosage since before he reached the age of majority.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh my God. Oh my God.

[Liv Agar]

That's a lot of steroid. Like that's symphony.

[Julian Fields]

That's a Lot.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, probably.

[Julian Fields]

Bullshit. Whoa.

[Liv Agar]

I mean, yeah, I. Well, well, the steroid claim is a bit easier to verify and we'll get to that in a second. In what is likely a combination of being edgy for attention and just being a dumbass. He was also asking the lookmaxing forum how he could manage to find his own Botox to administer injections to himself, refusing to get it done professionally as he was saving up for a very serious double jaw surgery, which is an extreme, you know, surgical intervention, especially for someone who naturally has a very strong symmetrical jawline. Like, you're doing fine, man. Like, there's no idiot.

[Jake Rockatansky]

He's an idiot. He has no idea. I had. I've had a friend, two friends, actually, who have had serious, like, jawed sinus surgery. And it is no joke.

[Liv Agar]

It's like a six month recovery, I think.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yes, yes, yes. It is insane. Oh, my God. What? And it's. And none of it's going to come out like how he wants to. He's going to end up looking like one of those guys, you know, one of those brothers. You know who I'm talking about. Those weird guys whose faces the bugs. Yeah. Yes.

[Julian Fields]

Lost to Covid. Lost to Fizer. Yeah, it's, it's. I mean, didn't Jake Paul get some jaw surgery recently in the ring.

[Liv Agar]

When.

[Julian Fields]

That guy knocked his block off?

[Liv Agar]

Internet gives people such bad body dysmorphia. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, sorry.

[Julian Fields]

I would recommend that intervention for clavicular.

[Liv Agar]

I mean, honestly, it's a shame that the, like, Internet celebrity boxing matches are kind of out of style because you got a pressure clavicular into doing one.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, that'd be amazing.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, MTV used to have a good show about that, but everybody was made out of clay.

[Julian Fields]

Yes, I do remember this.

[Jake Rockatansky]

They should bring that back.

[Liv Agar]

But for real, clavicular would brag on the looks. Max form about how little time he spent in the gym. Relying on steroids. Ability to drastically increase muscle growth with little to no extraneous exercise involved. This is, of course, a long term problem, most crucially because all of your muscles become enlarged, including, for instance, your heart.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, whoops.

[Liv Agar]

Oops. But that is a problem for a clavicular of at least a few years down the road.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, right now he has. He has issues enough with the meth addiction.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Maybe it's what he wants, though. Imagine clavicular hitting 30, you know, starting to see the crow's feet around your eyes. You know, I don't know if he could handle it.

[Liv Agar]

He already looks Pretty fucking old.

[Jake Rockatansky]

He really does.

[Julian Fields]

He's really fucked up. His body doesn't look good.

[Liv Agar]

Like if he was like 30, I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, he's still a good looking guy. It's just like he's aging any anytime.

[Julian Fields]

The video is not like shot in the dimness of a club. Like, it is rough.

[Liv Agar]

If you want a simple explanation for a clavicular's looks maxing routine, the man is chronically addicted to swallowing a spider to catch a fly. Going on steroids like Tren to minimize time required at the gym to be muscular, then taking muscle relaxers and anti seizure medication to manage the nerves that come from uric testosterone levels being 10 times beyond natural levels. He's advocated for using money from student loan debts to pay for very expensive cosmetic surgeries. The logic being that being much more physically attractive will get you far more in life than a stupid little degree. Despite being such an ambassador for looksmaxing, Caviglia is completely embroiled in the looksmaxing ideology. Trapped in a miserable mog eat mog world where any man on the street is at risk of being more physically attractive than you in some way.

[Julian Fields]

It's such a good version of like, I'm scared of men wanting to fight me. It's like I'm scared of men just being handsome and entering the spectacle that I'm constantly streaming. That's why I thought. Originally I thought frame mogging was you, you mog. By entering the frame and looking better. I didn't think it was the frame of the body.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, that's what I thought too.

[Julian Fields]

But they both kind of make sense. Like you're always serving the spectacle and so you take a risk doing that. But of course it's a risk that's completely hedged, so don't worry.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular's looks maxing routine would start to become a serious problem for him at the end of 2024, when as a 19 year old, he would crash his car into a ditch as a result of his abuse of the muscle relaxer Bacliff.

[Julian Fields]

Jesus.

[Liv Agar]

This would be devastating for a clavicular. Not because anyone was hurt, but instead because it greatly set back his goal of affording a double jaw surgery. He would shortly after also be expelled from university for hiding testosterone in his room, something he claims only happened because members of the Looks Max forum reported him to his university.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, after that he was like, that's it, you've got me. You've ruined the rest of my life. So now you're Gonna have to listen to me. There's like this weird like way that he casts it as like, well, I guess you stole my life. Now I'm gonna be in your face forever.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. There's a clip where he's like, I wish I had a normal life. I could be in university.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, I wish. Huh, sure you do.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah. I mean that is a good, that is a good point that it's like, well, you were posting so much on the looks maxi forum, you weren't going to class.

[Julian Fields]

Like this is that right wing thing of being like, well, I wasn't a Nazi, but now I am that. I heard you call me one.

[Liv Agar]

Now you may look at his life trajectory and chalk it up to pure stupidity. And that's totally fair and reasonable. But it's also importantly a type of stupidity that's incredibly embedded in a younger zoomer urge to post one's life on the Internet as much as possible in one's real actual life in a way that's traceable to their identity. Following Clavicular losing access to upper education, he would go all in on looksmaxing content on the Internet. And Clavicular is a good looking guy. Just I'm not exactly sure to what extent that's the result of say him tapping his cheekbones with a hammer regularly. No, the pain is too unbearable to continue.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, no, it's definitely not. It's very funny because that, that specific thing, the bone smashing, it just makes them look like swole. They do start to do early Bogdanov pretty quickly.

[Liv Agar]

Click will sometimes host a before and after of his looks maxing journey as a way of selling himself as a dedicated looks maxer. Where in the before pic he's a pimply teen and after he's a very muscular, good looking adult. I posted one of the photos in the chat for, for the boys to, to see.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, I mean that tummy, there's something I don't like the, the cum, her tummy area, it really fucking freaks me out, you know, like I've got the same reaction like as like looking at a xenomorph or something like that. That's not right. It looks like, it looks like they, they use like the smudge tool, like from his belly button to like his boxer line. Also I'm commenting on a 20 year old child basically, so I'm going to shut up now.

[Liv Agar]

It's hard because you forget he doesn't look 20. Like the, the testosterone has aged him so quickly.

[Jake Rockatansky]

He looks like a character in like arc that I'M trying to create before I've refined it. You know, the shoulders are out too wide, the waist is too little.

[Julian Fields]

Like, he looks like a fucking piece of chewing gum that was, like, broadly shaped into a man.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it is odd. Like, you do get to a point where it's like. I mean, I guess technically all of that is like the objective, incredible, ideal. But it does just feel strange, unlike a real person.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, yeah, that's the next generation. I think we're going back to not caring which. Which.

[Liv Agar]

Thank.

[Julian Fields]

Thank God. I think this is the pinnacle of, like, caring too much and we're gonna all laugh looking back.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. Hopefully there's a backlash because. Yeah, I mean, Gen Z is, like, really bad body dysmorphia.

[Julian Fields]

There always is. No, it's really bad. So I think that there's gonna be hopefully a little bit of a kind of swinging of the pendulum the other direction. Let's hope. I'm not sure it's gonna be good, but.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I feel like these people must be so bored. Who's got the time to do, you know? He clearly doesn't have to work.

[Julian Fields]

Well, no, he doesn't, because he's making shit tons of money on kick and buying Bugattis and shit.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. And a big part of it, like, he isn't especially strong. I mean, there was a video with him and Andrew Tate where it was like he was benching. Like, is it three reps of one plate? Which is like. It's like, pretty good. Like, above intermediate. But, like, even, especially for his physique, is, like, a bit unusual. And it's just because it's like. Well, he never benches. Like, he literally does rely on testosterone.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. It's just the way it looks.

[Liv Agar]

Looks.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. And the fact that he is 20, so.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, totally.

[Julian Fields]

He's going to get a lot less leeway later to, like, achieve anything like this quote, unquote. Achieve, of course. But yeah, no, the whole thing is really fucking depressing because at least, like. And I am not trying to say Andrew Tate is in any way superior, but at least Andrew Tate did do kickboxing. Like, he actually did, like, compete and stuff. Clavicular is like, if you stream. Ripped away everything and only looks remained looks. Maxing. I mean, makes sense. It's in the name.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. It's just the skin. It's like you just purchased the skin. All the armor. All your armor still sucks.

[Julian Fields]

My man is. My man is IKEA furniture. My man is like, there's not a single piece of solid wood in there. It's just all fucking cardboard.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It's gonna fall apart. It's gonna fall apart in eight months.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

No, but seriously, I'm worried about him and I'm worried about the people who look up to somebody like this or at the very least, least think that this, this kind of behavior is, is worth spending their time doing.

[Julian Fields]

Just entertain.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, I think it's just kids having fun.

[Julian Fields]

I don't, I don't find this any more sick than like your average, like Maury Povich or Oprah or Springer. You know, it's like this, this culture has always existed, but it's now being consumed at such a young age. And like the. Yeah, I think reality TV has also pushed people to be more cruel and more like spectacular when they do appear, you know, on any kind of media.

[Liv Agar]

It is honestly going back to the before and after photo, hard to tell what the looks maxing has actually done because he started his quote unquote journey at 15. You know, I would expect to find someone much more attractive at 20 than 15 because I'm not Jeffrey Epstein. Get him, get his ass. I'm holding him accountable.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, Clinicular. I'll have you know that I waited until 18 to do a cum tribute.

[Liv Agar]

Nevertheless, the lie of his luxmaxing seems to work on enough people. And in an incredibly ironic turn, considering the early anti grift origins of the looksmax forum, Clavicular would begin selling a fifty dollar an hour looksmaxing course to young impressionable men and also women who want to look better. This is very important context for much of Clavicular's shocking and outlandish claims. He's positioned himself as a luxmaxing ambassador with a vested interest in the outlook of the forum growing in popularity. The more absurd lengths he is known to go in order to look smacks, the stronger his brand gets for the sake of recruiting young impressionable boys who would be attracted to the ideology. So being shocked and appalled while taking all of his claims at face value is in a sense a sort of similar mistake that older commentators make when ridiculing Nick Fuentes's virginity.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, unfortunately, like there is no right way to deal with this kind of stuff because we've discussed this and I think we both agree it's like it's a product of a system that, that would reproduce the same thing even if you swapped out all the people. So yeah, you're not really going to be able to get Clavicular. Right. Or what I mean is get under his skin or defeat him in some way because he literally is not your opponent. Yeah, it's depressing.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular would get his start outside of the Lookmaxing forum, initially on TikTok, but it was only in July of 2025 where he would finally land a spot on his idol Nick Fuentes dream. I've mentioned before how relatively shrewd I think Fuentes is, at least in relation to all the other well known right wing influencers, which very low bar to be clear.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Sure.

[Liv Agar]

And I think him boosting Clavicular so relatively early is an example of this. Specifically, insofar as Nick recognized that Clavicular could be a useful component of the Groiper pipeline, drawing in young, insecure boys who are looking for influencers that speak to their particular gender based anxieties.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, he's a perfect foil to the kind of closeted skinny Nick Fuentes. You know, know, it's like a little more on face value, masculine. And yeah, I'm sure Nick also doesn't mind looking at his body.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that was. Oh yeah, please come to my house. Can I see your frame? Yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Could you wear like cat girl ears?

[Liv Agar]

Associating with Fuentes would only be the beginning of Clavicular's climb up the manosphere. In late 2025, he would move to Miami, which is a grim sentence to say out loud.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Like if a city were a burning person.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah. In order to start making content on the incredibly unregulated bonafide gambling website kick.com. if you've seen any headline about a young, impulsive, histrionic idiot doing something illegal on a livestream for attention, there's a very good chance it was on Kik.

[Julian Fields]

Yes, sir.

[Liv Agar]

From people streaming their attempts to survive Hurricane Milton by breaking into evacuated apartments to vehicular manslaughter totaling expensive luxury cars because live streaming is too distracting to lots and lots and lots of gambling. Kick is a complete cesspool with the most immoral and provocative act. Acts are rewarded with a metric shit ton of money. Most of that money is just gambling money. Like the reason why they're able to keep it afloat is just because it's, it's like promoting, you know, one of the affiliated gambling websites, which is also kind of somewhat, you know, gray market, not quite legal, where they make just an absurd amount of money.

[Julian Fields]

Like steak, steak.com, like that kind of thing.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I believe it. I believe it's steak. Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

There's so many gambling websites. There's so much like gambling stuff going on that. I don't. I don't even know about.

[Julian Fields]

Insanely wild. Wild to see, like, the sports betting thing completely swallow all professional sports. But, yeah, no, of course, like, what's left when everyone's poor? Like, play dice?

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's really bad. And like, even on Kick, like, like other streaming websites like twitch, it's like a seven. You get 70% of subscriber money. Like, so Amazon takes 30%. With Kik, it's like you get all of it because they're like, we don't fucking care. Come to our website. Take. Take all the money from the. From people paying you.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Are there any nice people that are streaming on kik?

[Liv Agar]

I think there are a couple.

[Julian Fields]

Just wholesome maxing.

[Liv Agar]

Exactly.

[Julian Fields]

They're also doing their own calculation.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Do you think I like. Do you think as a nicer, more empathetic person that I could do well on a site like Kik?

[Julian Fields]

That depends. How recessed is your maxilla?

[Liv Agar]

That's true. I don't know.

[Jake Rockatansky]

What do you guys think? I feel like my nose is getting a little bit bigger.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. We need to measure you, Liv. And I would have to measure you.

[Jake Rockatansky]

The sides of my hair are starting to get gray. My beard is all gray. What does that mean?

[Julian Fields]

We'd have to feed you into the algorithm and see.

[Liv Agar]

Yes, they do have these AI generated PSL scores creators, Jake.

[Julian Fields]

Don't worry. Like, there's good filters and stuff. Like, a lot of these things could be changed by filters.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I feel like these guys don't have any facial hair. I think they're all. Most of them seem really clean shaven. I feel like a beard excludes you. I looked up the picture of the. Of him and the ASU leader, the fraternity leader, and oh, my God, that guy looks like even more of an arc. Like, create a character guy. I specifically say arc because the characters in that game look like absolute cavemen.

[Liv Agar]

Actually, funny enough, the Twitter account for Kik messaged me like a couple weeks ago. Livex Kick, when No way. I told them to go. To go oops themselves.

[Julian Fields]

Nice.

[Liv Agar]

So they are, like, pretty, because, you know, I have a Twitch stream. Twitch tv Levegar. They're pretty.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, they're trying to.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, they're trying to scalp, but that is just. I think there are, like some kind of lib left wing and like, maybe politically neutral people on the website, but for the most part, it is just about like, you can stream semi illegal shit on here, unlike on Twitch, where you'll get banned.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular was therefore absolutely perfect. For the site, most of his big streams have been irl, meaning he's out in public. Think of these streams like an even more unregulated version of reality tv. Everyone is essentially doing improv for content and trying to get attention. And clavicular is a fairly abrasive guy on camera, saying pretty overtly cruel things to other people for viewing. And sometimes it's clavicular. Who's the one who's getting played? I should have mentioned that the ASU frat boy who frame mocked clavicular was not just innocently asking for a photo. He was pretty clearly puffing out his chest and attempting to appear bigger than Clav. He too is a luxmaxing adjacent fitness influencer named Varis and later admitted he wasn't even a member of the frat Clavicular was visiting, despite, of course, putting ASU frat leader in his bio.

[Julian Fields]

Amazing.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular is, as I mentioned before, quite awkward. And this comes across very clearly on his dreams. Here he is, for instance, explaining to a beautiful woman that he's gotten, quote, pissmonged before.

[Clavicular]

Like, yeah, I just let go. And he puts the camera at the floor.

[Liv Agar]

Okay.

[Clavicular]

You know?

[Liv Agar]

Yes.

[Clavicular]

Do you mute it sometimes?

[Julian Fields]

Sometimes, though. Yeah, they like listening.

[Clavicular]

Yeah, sometimes I like to hear it.

[Liv Agar]

Okay.

[Julian Fields]

They'll rate the stream, you know. Yeah, yeah.

[Clavicular]

I've gotten piss mogged before. You know, I wrote a thread about it. Real ones know.

[Liv Agar]

Really?

[Clavicular]

Yeah.

[Liv Agar]

Wow.

[Clavicular]

Like, when someone pisses next to you and they have, like, a bigger stream.

[Liv Agar]

Oh, I'm sure it's pretty brutal. Oh, my God.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm doing a gauging on my urethra for a bigger stream, quote, unquote.

[Jake Rockatansky]

This is just like, dumb guy flirting. I don't know.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, he's like, yeah, One time there was a guy who's pissing next to me and he pissed louder than me.

[Liv Agar]

Me.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah. Real ones know. Anyways, are we going to, like, later or not?

[Jake Rockatansky]

Real ones, no.

[Julian Fields]

Real ones, no.

[Liv Agar]

The real ones know, by the way, is a reference to a thread on looks. Max, that clavicular made in 2024 related to a bizarre racial anxiety he had following a black student peeing much louder than him in an adjacent stall.

[Julian Fields]

Oh, God. You can't escape it, man.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, but, like, imagine leaving that restroom and being like, like, man, that guy peed a lot louder than me. Like that. Oh, God. What? I mean, how tortured? I mean, how tortured? If. If. If you're micro analyzing that level of wins and losses as you make Your way through this already, you know, Crazy world.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. And it. It is this mogging culture. I mean, there was a. I think in the same bus. Cause I think Clavicular has this weird bus, but, like, it's him and Andrew Tate. And Andrew Tate is absolutely going off about, yeah, we're going to mog this, we're going to mog that. Like, trying to be in on the lingo is fucking sad. He's fucking turning 40 soon.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, it's embarrassing. In late of 2025, clavicular would begin collaborating with some of the bigger names on Kick, like Aiden Ross and Jack Doherty, who, like, deserve episodes of their own for being just complete fucking narcissist idiots. Doherty got banned for a while on Kick. He was the one who crashed his incredibly expensive car because he was, like, too busy streaming. And then he was telling his, like, injured cameraman to, like, get the shot while he was bleeding. Just insane. Like, these are. Yeah. Clavicular's primary gimmick on these larger streams concerned content creators asking him to apply the PSL rating scale to various people, which typically was followed by Clavicular spinning out a list of Byzantine facial measurements to justify how hot he believes they are. He is, in a sense, bringing the rating system of physical beauty pioneered on the PSL forums and then looks Max into a mainstream audience that had not seen it before. And, of course, Claviculi would generally say the most immediately controversial take about the individual he was being asked to rate. As we saw before with his interview with Michael Knowles, here's another example of him talking to non white, white nationalist streamer sneako about Kyle Rittenhouse.

[Julian Fields]

Kyle Rittenhouse just got married, though. Did you see his wife? She has a bunch of sleeve tattoos.

[Clavicular]

She has tattoos.

[Julian Fields]

Hold on, I'm gonna show you. Well, congrats to Kyle Rittenhouse. He's now a married man, and I'm very. Let's see. Hope the best for him.

[Clavicular]

Let's show you this, dude. I find it, like, that's, like, peak jester, Max. And complete opposite end of the spectrum from everything I talk about what he did, how he risked his life to go defend stores in another state. Like, that's. That's why I was. I was always very anti. Like, Rittenhouse.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. And the. The crying at the courthouse. Couldn't understand why he was observing upset. But okay, here's his. I'm gonna show you the marriage, the proposal. Here it is.

[Clavicular]

Oh, my God. Holy cringe. Are you serious?

[Julian Fields]

Congrats to Kyle. I'm happy he's married. Why is this cringe?

[Clavicular]

Dude, look at her arms. Are you serious?

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, that sounds. Looks really expensive. Those are getting a whole sleeve done. That must be like $3,000.

[Clavicular]

I don't know. So the way I feel about tattoos for men, it's just like I don't. I would never do it, but I'm not like the most outspoken. If. If people have them as males, I think there's a certain aesthetic that certainly fits into it. But if you're a woman, you're getting tattoos, you know, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this on YouTube, but you're just a trashy. Like I don't know what, what you could say.

[Jake Rockatansky]

I think.

[Julian Fields]

I think you could say that word. Jesus.

[Liv Agar]

My favorite clip of his is this is from Will Sommers piece on it, which I would recommend you read is after the ASU frat leader situation, he goes to eat dinner and he orders like it's this really nice restaurant and he orders chicken tendies instead of something and they forget to bring it out to him. And he like has this moment where he's just like about to cry. And the, the lady there who is, I believe the one I mentioned before, that was like using him for clout and pretending to be a femcel, which is female incel.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Okay.

[Liv Agar]

Is like, are you okay actually? And he's like, no, no, no, I'm fine. You just have these like really dark, dark actual moments in Clavicular's life just on stream where it's like he's not doing a bit. Like this is a low for him. He can't do a bit. He's not able to. He's just doing himself.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah.

[Clavicular]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

It seems like he puts himself in situations that make him incredibly uncomfortable.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, I mean, I think that he is like quite an anxious person. And then also being on testosterone, like testosterone makes that so much worse. So I'd imagine he just like there is a truth to the, like, I like word men or whatever and try not to speak to anyone all day. Like there is a truth to that sentiment with him that he probably doesn't want to do shit like that. It probably is deeply uncomfortable for him.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, it's like, because I've had the thought as like a young man, like, don't speak too much. Like you're going to give away. You're going to give it up too quickly or they're going to know that you're a nerd or like that you're not, you know, like, don't speak too much. Like there is that like instinct, especially for somebody like me, that, that likes to talk a lot. But it's not like something that I'd be like, okay, tomorrow practice, like, do 10 less words or. It's not like something that I would assign statistics to, like almost like a sport or like a gamification almost of like stat points and stuff that these, these guys all seem to be obsessed with.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, there's a pathological like optimization, you know, it's in the kind of the term maxing, which I believe is like originally from video games, min. Maxing, where it's like there's some stats, if you play a game really well, that you can only care about. You only care about, you know, magic damage or whatever and not mana or something. But they're doing that in real life.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah. That is the only lens through which I understand this.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

And I've seen like, I get advertised all of the stuff for like older millennials, like, you know, like lose, you know, you're too fat, duh, you know, too bald, all of those things. Shoes make you bigger.

[Julian Fields]

Too fast, too furious, too bald.

[Liv Agar]

Clavicular is a very fascinating figure. While it might be easy to compare him to a grifter such as the pickup artist that Pua Hate was originally made for, he, I think it's said, is far more of a true believer. He genuinely is on a list, I think, of medically dubious substances in order to ensure he's as hot as he possibly can be. And at this point, he can't go back. The edgy, controversial Internet alias he inhabited as an insecure teenager who at the very least self identified as autistic, has now ballooned into his real life life. Clavicular is in a prison of his own creation, likely on a testosterone dosage that would give a well put together individual constant panic attacks. He's now attached not only his self worth, but also his career to being as hot as possible, subjecting himself to an increasingly large amount of scrutiny concerning his looks. I mean, the easiest way of getting an insult on the Internet is calling yourself hot. People are like, sure. Really like you that hot?

[Julian Fields]

Start pointing out little things.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, totally. And you see this with like, even like left wing wing people who don't like clavicular. They'll be like, oh, look at his, like benchmax. Look. Oh, he looks so small now. And it's like, yeah, I mean it's, it's hard not to have that reaction when someone. That's just the adversarial dynamic that always comes about on the Internet when someone positions themselves like this. Watching a clavicular stream where he's browsing the Internet makes this immediately clear. Where he's often doom scrolling various social media sites with an algorithm keenly in tune to showing him content specifically related to him. And of course responding very negatively to any and all criticism. As an example of his just general attitude, here's a clip from a December 2025 blog by Clavicular.

[Clavicular (on his own stream)]

People are thinking, you know, oh, Clav is such a well written character. Clav is so entertaining. He's so unique and you know, while I appreciate that you, you know, understanding that there's, you know, quite a lot of depth to my story, I am not a fucking jester for your amusement, right? I am not a character. This is not some fucking TV show show, right, where I'm coming on here trying to entertain you. This is the cruel hard world. So I'm done with this title being thrown around, all right? Well written character, okay? You think this is a joke? We live in one of the worst societies ever throughout the entire history of the world, quite literally, you have to be in the top percentile to even be looked at with a shred of romance, with a shred of attraction by women in this day of age. So it is quite brutal, it is quite unnecessary. So when people are sitting there on TikTok like, oh, wow, you know, this edit of Clive is cool, or Clive said this or Clive, oh, he's such a crazy guy. Motherfucker. Do you think that I'm doing this as a form of entertainment when I have to stay up for three days in a row high on crystal meth, right? Trying to suppress my appetite and get hollow cheeks, right? Is, is that supposed to entertain you? Because this is real, all right? The fact that I even can't. I. I can't even talk to people without some sort of, you know, version of, of, you know, benzos. I need alprazolam just to be able to have a conversation like a normal person. Is that supposed to be entertaining to you? Okay, right, so this is, you know, hell for me. So I ain't here to entertain you. I am here to look smacks. I am here to fucking ascent. This has never been a game. This has never been a joke.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, true.

[Jake Rockatansky]

A true believer.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah. I mean, I think this is also what separates it from reality tv. And he makes that point himself, right? No, I am allowed to just look at you and say, you know, is this a fucking joke to you? Like I'm a fucking clown. And they're going to keep it in because I am the editor, you know. So, yeah, I don't know, there's a certain amount of like differentiating he's doing about his own product there that makes it kind of disingenuous. But then at the same time you can clearly see he is absolutely haunted by his own approach and ideology. Like, oh, you think it's fun for me to stand for three days on meth? Yeah, I hope. I hope it is. Dumbass. That's why, that's why we do it. That's why the human race does drugs. Asshole. Yeah, I think I'm enjoying myself. I certainly hope you are, even for a fragment of the time. Jesus.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

To me, this is like the saddest shit ever because if he actually believes this, he's like wasting the best years of his life. Like you guys said, he's not a bad looking guy. Like, even in the pimply face picture as a teenager, he's like, you know, he just looks like a normal, you know, just like a normal kid. And so it's sad and like. And on the other side, if he's just like super cynical and like knows that this is like, it's a character that he is playing and he's making a shit ton of money and it is kind of like a modern day, sort of like Andy Kaufman type of thing. Like, that's also really sad.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, I mean, it is definitely not that. I mean he definitely has. He can't see the forest for the trees like that. That's. I believe him. That he is, you know, kind of firmly lost and ensconced in his own ideology.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julian Fields]

Anyways.

[Jake Rockatansky]

But this is. Yeah. Especially with the drug use and the things that he's doing to his body.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Like, you know, he's barely out of high school and like, I think if I had defined my life around anything that I believed in high school or, you know, experiences that I thought were going to, you know, have monumental repercussions, like, I would be so fucked. So I can only hope that he grows out of, you know, you know, that this is a particular type of content and that he grows out of this into a more fully formed neo Nazi. Which is the only direction. Which is the only direction that this is. That this is heading. This is just, this is just a stop on the way to some kind of Nazism. When you're this obsessed with how you look and other people look and how comparing them to what, God, God forbid, you know, I'D hate to think what. What he thinks of, like, ethnicities like that are anything other than white.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

But very sad, weird stuff. You know, I'm. I'm sort of. I was like, kind of aware of this guy because I saw on Twitter, I think that there was like, pictures of him and Andrew Tate and like, Sneako and like all these fucking weird guys, like, weird online guys. Like, they had rented some kind of like, party bus together, like they were going to prom and they were like, all bumping like, heil Hitler. And I was just like, damn, man, it's so.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah.

[Jake Rockatansky]

Oh, man.

[Liv Agar]

Apparently when they went to the club and it played, you know, the Kanye Hale Hitler that, like, a bunch of the staff got fired for allowing that to happen because, like, yourself.

[Julian Fields]

That's awesome.

[Jake Rockatansky]

That's awesome. That's awesome. I hope it was worth it. Staff from the club.

[Liv Agar]

Yeah, but Clavicular is a very, like, Gen Z type of irony where it's like, he's very sincere and in fact, like, way more sincere than previous generations in terms of his, like, Internet Persona. But he's also, he also does love being ironic and being in on jokes. Jokes. It's a difficult. It's a weird balance. Clavicular represents a new sort of Internet personality who's been so hooked into the Internet content matrix at such an early age that there's something oddly earnest about their digital presence. What you see is what you get. And the lack of separation means the flurry of negative comments. Clavicular has built his life around hurt, especially bad. Clavicular is a generally pretty narcissistic guy. He has far right politics, has espoused misogynistic and racist beliefs repeatedly, and yet I can't help but just feel bad for him. This is even as he's gotten increasingly more relevant as a figure in the Trump 2 far right mediaverse. He's now hired a very large publicist who I believe also, like his manage, Candace Owens, is now appearing with more esteemed Trump 2 right wing media figures than the live streaming degens he was previously known for. The party is getting bigger and bigger, yet every clip of him I see, I feel like he's having an even larger existential crisis.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's good. It's interesting. It's like we're right at the. I mean, talk about min maxing. It's like, yeah, this is like the youngest someone can be doing some of this stuff while still being legal online. And like, it's just everything is right at the edge. Right. I mean, I don't know if there's much wiggle room from here. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's interesting. It's. He, he's, he is truly a perfect avatar for our age. I love it. Love him. Love Trump, Love everything America's got going on for it. We love the Burger Reich. Well, thank you listener, for listening to another episode of the QAA podcast. We've got a patreon patreon.comqaa you can sub for 5 bucks a month and get access to a premium episode for every main that we put out. Definitely go check that out and then also go check out cursed media.net where you can find all of our miniseries past and present and sign up for a yearly fee and, and you know, get access to that whole ecosystem where we're, we're continuing to put out, you know, stuff that kind of is more serialized or in depth or otherwise doesn't quite fit underneath the QAA publishing imperium. So for the publishing imperium, qaapodcast.com and what can I say, foyd until next week. May the jester goon mog you and mun. We have auto keyed content based on your preferences.

[Liv Agar]

Medical school.

[Clavicular]

Well, I got kicked out of school.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, but whatever, we'll get you back in. I, I don't, I don't want to be a Jewish mother. But you should go to medical school.

[Clavicular]

That's a horrible idea.

[Julian Fields]

Why? You know all this crap.

[Clavicular]

I'm already.

[Julian Fields]

You can help people doing medical school.

[Clavicular]

I would never go back to school. I'm already doing good enough on social media. Social media where I can't even think about the word school in a serious context.

[Liv Agar]

Be a doctor.

[Julian Fields]

You could be a good. It's a good job.

[Clavicular]

No, no doctors.

[Julian Fields]

You know all this stuff. Do doctors agree with the stuff you're saying right now?

[Clavicular]

Doctors are.

[Jake Rockatansky]

You're a rogue.

[Clavicular]

I'm telling you. Listen, these people are literally going to school for 10 years accumulating a recorded amount of debt just to make like, you know, a wage that's not really going to affect. Elevate you to a position where you could beat any looks disparity. So it just doesn't really make sense to me.

[Julian Fields]

Yeah, but your mom tells the daughter.

[Clavicular]

Like, dude, if you're gonna take out hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of loans, you might as well invest it into surgery rather than going to school.

[Julian Fields]

What if you could be a plastic surgeon?

[Clavicular]

And by the way, you can actually get college loans and use it for surgery. So this is a method. So. So I've been. I've been telling people, yeah, you can literally do that. So just misappropriating the funds, it's really not going to get you in that much trouble and you'll mog, so you'll be able to sort of get out of it.