Loading summary

Transcript128 lines

[00:02]
Brian Reed
My new favorite thing I've been wearing that I got from Quince are these red linen shorts. The other day I wore them to pick up my daughter from school. Met up with my wife after and she literally looked at me and said, wait, are you on vacation right now? I think it was both that they look like I was going to the beach, but also I just felt relaxed in them. And that's the marker of good clothes. Comfortable, easy to wear, and they look good. Quince makes those kind of everyday staples with quality materials that cost 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they sell to you directly. Right now they have 100% linen shirts and pants or soft tees that are perfect for the summer. Clothing that's breathable, easy to throw on, that will trick your spouse into thinking you're on vacation, make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com? for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com? for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com?
[01:02]
David Remnick
right now we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, and so many more. That's all in the New Yorker Radio Hour. Wherever you listen to podcasts.
[01:30]
Brian Reed
It's January 21, 2025, the very first full day of Donald Trump's second term. Trump's hosting an event at the White House to announce the launch of something called Stargate, a joint venture between a bunch of companies to build a network of AI data centers across the country. And one of the guests who shows up for it is Larry Ellison, the co founder and executive chairman of Oracle. Oracle sells computing services to businesses like cloud infrastructure, but in recent years has moved into supporting AI through data centers. And it's one of the core companies involved in Stargate, a $500 billion project. So this Stargate announcement at the White House was a big deal, but there was a little problem.
[02:13]
Emily Glazer
Larry Ellison didn't have his passport and he did not have a government issued ID with him.
[02:19]
Brian Reed
This is Emily Glaser, a reporter at the Wall Street Journal who defines her beat as the rich and powerful. She and some of her colleagues are the ones who found out about this story. Everyone needs an ID to get into the White House. Whether you're worth 150 something billion dollars like Larry Ellison, or you're a regular family on vacation just going on a tour. Secret Service rules. Can you imagine having flown somewhere and not having a single ID on you? I guess that happens when you're flying private, huh? You don't need to go through security.
[02:46]
Emily Glazer
You know, I have to say, like, there was a part of a recent book about Meta where there was a scene where Mark Zuckerberg also didn't have his passport at like a critical juncture. So I'm not forgiving billionaires and the wealthiest people in the world for not walking around with their, like, government issued IDs like the rest of us. But, you know, here they are. And Larry Ellison does not have a photo ID that is appropriate to get him into the White House. He shows up, he's waiting to get into the White House. There is definitely a delay.
[03:22]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
One thing leads to another.
[03:24]
Emily Glazer
The President is called, and President Trump personally intervened to get Larry Ellison through. He told security, quote, everyone knows who Larry is. And Larry Ellison was ultimately escorted into the Roosevelt Room without the typical security process.
[03:44]
Brian Reed
When Emily heard this anecdote from her sources about Donald Trump and Larry Ellison, something about it struck her.
[03:49]
Emily Glazer
The way it was so informal and it was like Trump's just like helping get his friend through. It's like, oh, no, he's at my house. Like, wave him in. Well, that house happens to be the White House, which happens to have like, probably some of the most security ever.
[04:06]
Brian Reed
With his guest of honor in the building, President Trump enters the Roosevelt Room. You to start the unveiling.
[04:11]
Donald Trump
Nice to see you. Some very familiar faces.
[04:15]
Brian Reed
Next to him is OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, also SoftBank CEO Masayoshi San. But based on how Trump's talking, Larry Ellison might as well be the only guy in the room.
[04:25]
Donald Trump
It's my Honor to welcome three of the world's leading technology CEOs. And in the case of Larry, Larry Ellison, it's well beyond technology, is sort of CEO of everything. He's an amazing man, an amazing business person.
[04:42]
Brian Reed
Elson is 81 years old now, and in recent years, unlike some other founders and billionaires, he's been less flashy and avoided the spotlight. So it was special to have him there. Ellison even said some words.
[04:54]
Larry Ellison
Thank you, Mr. President. We certainly couldn't do this without you. It would simply be impossible. AI holds incredible promise for all of
[05:03]
Brian Reed
us, for every American, which the President seemed to appreciate.
[05:08]
Donald Trump
For Larry to be here and do this is very unusual because he doesn't do this stuff. He doesn't need it. You did a very good job for a guy that doesn't do it much. Right.
[05:17]
Brian Reed
Dare I say you hear a real fondness in Trump's voice for Larry Ellison. Admiration, even. This whole scene at the White House, it jives with something a source had said to Emily about these two men.
[05:29]
Emily Glazer
I remember hearing from someone, actually multiple people, I should say, who said that Larry Ellison and Trump are genuinely friends. And I was like, what? What do you mean? Like they're friends.
[05:43]
Brian Reed
Emily spends every day reporting on the wealthiest people in the world. She's won a Pulitzer for it. But the way these sources were talking about Larry Ellison and Donald Trump was different.
[05:53]
Kim Masters
How?
[05:53]
Emily Glazer
They just really get along. Their ideologies are very similar. They enjoy speaking with each other. And I was just so stuck on this because we don't usually have insights into friendships, or at least I don't. I hear a lot more about business transactions. I often write about the money changing hands, you know, the favors, but you don't really hear about those people having actual friendships. Usually there isn't also this extra layer of like, oh, and they really like talking to each other. I don't know. I was very drawn into that.
[06:31]
Brian Reed
Trump and Ellison's relationship is important to know more about because as we've touched on here on the show, in the President's second term, Ellison has amassed significant power over the media world. Last year, Larry Ellison financed his son David's purchase of Paramount and along with it, CBS News. Now they're aiming to acquire Warner Brothers Discovery. That deal got put on pause last week due to an antitrust suit from 12 states. But if it goes through, the Ellisons would also control cnn. And earlier this year, the Trump administration brokered a deal that handed Larry Ellison's company, Oracle, a major stake in TikTok, some of the biggest brands in media, all landing or poised to land in the hands of one family within two years of the President's term. A family that seems awfully cozy with the President and could do his bidding. And in fact, there's been a lot of evidence of that at CBS News in 60min since David Ellison took over. So Emily took the tips she got about Larry Ellison and Donald Trump being legit pals and with the help of two of her colleagues, dug into it. What new info could they find out about this relationship? Are they actually friends?
[07:40]
Emily Glazer
And then we are the Wall Street Journal. We needed to know what the money situation was.
[07:46]
Brian Reed
You pitched a buddy comedy to your editors and they were like, sure, but
[07:49]
Emily Glazer
you need the money to yes, so something like that.
[07:54]
Brian Reed
Turns out there was also way more money involved in the relationship between these two than anyone in the public knew from placement theory and kcrw. I'm Brian Reed. This is Question Everything we investigate how the truth gets buried, distorted and denied and the ways people are fighting to make it matter again. Stick around.
[08:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
As we age, I guess some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Some scientists call these zombie cells and that's what ends up driving visible signs of aging fine lines, the dullness that creeps in over time. And Oneskin was specifically engineered to address this. Now's an especially good time to try it because a lot of visible skin aging starts with lots of sun exposure. Oneskin has some new limited edition summer bundles. It's their skincare and SPF essentials paired together so you get UV protection while OneSkin helps reverse visible effects of aging. Born from over a decade of longevity research, Oneskin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age for a limited time, Try OneSkin with 15% off using code question@OneSkin Co question that's 15% off OneSkin Co with the Code question. After you purchase, they'll ask you where
[09:07]
Brian Reed
you heard about them.
[09:08]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Please support our show and tell them Question everything sent you.
[09:17]
Brian Reed
Donald Trump may think everyone knows who Larry Ellison is, but in case you don't, Ellison was born to a 19 year old single mother in 1944 and adopted at 9 months old by his aunt and uncle in Chicago. He was a star science student, dropped out of college, founded Oracle in 1977 to make databases for companies. He took it public in 1986, was CEO till 2014. Ellison has been married at least five times. I say at least because the reporting on this varies. I guess when you're married that many times, you can lose count. Like President Trump. Ellison doesn't drink. He's a competitive sailor, a connoisseur of Van Gogh paintings and Japanese feudal architecture. He owns all but 2% of the Hawaiian island of Lanai. Emily told me he also flies fighter jets.
[10:02]
Emily Glazer
So there is this like urban legend that Larry Ellison once flew a jet under the Golden Gate Bridge in the middle of the night. And like crazy thing, yes, okay, I do. I cannot confirm or deny this.
[10:17]
Brian Reed
This was back in the early 2000s. Charlie Rose asked Ellison about it on 60 Minutes in 2004.
[10:23]
Charlie Rose
There is the story that you once flew a plane under the Golden Gate Bridge.
[10:31]
Larry Ellison
There is that story.
[10:32]
Charlie Rose
Did you do that?
[10:34]
Larry Ellison
Well, Charlie, that would be against the rules. That would be against aviation rules. So. So of course not.
[10:41]
Charlie Rose
If you did it, would you acknowledge it?
[10:42]
Larry Ellison
No, sir.
[10:43]
Charlie Rose
What kind of plane would you have done it in if you had done it?
[10:45]
Larry Ellison
If I had done it, I have
[10:49]
Brian Reed
a couple of fighter pilots.
[10:51]
Larry Ellison
Yeah, fighter planes. Both of those would have been good choices.
[10:54]
Brian Reed
That episode was called the Most Competitive man in the World. Kind of funny that it's from 60 Minutes, which Ellison's son just bought. When it comes to politics, Ellison has supported Democrats and Republicans over the years and including, interestingly, Republicans who've opposed Trump. I was reminded by Emily that As recently as 2023, Ellison backed a candidate who was challenging Trump in the Republican primary for president, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott. Emily says Senator Scott and Ellison are tight.
[11:26]
Emily Glazer
Tim Scott and his family have visited Larry Ellison's Hawaiian island a couple of times. They've stayed like at the compound there, not the hotel, which is an important distinction in my eyes because it's like that shows, you know, a degree of closeness. But when it became clear that Donald Trump was going to be the Republican nominee, Larry Ellison shifted.
[11:47]
Brian Reed
He threw himself behind Trump, tried to convince him to pick Scott as his vp, which obviously didn't pan out. But Trump won. And there Larry Ellison was by the first day of Trump's new presidency being waved through the security gates to announce Stargate and be praised warmly by the President. I'm just trying to get my head around this cuz Trump is so vindictive and prizes loyalty so much so to think that Larry Ellison was supporting, you know, an opponent of Trump's in the primary. How did it go from that to this close special friendship.
[12:19]
Emily Glazer
$45 million, baby.
[12:24]
Brian Reed
As Emily and her co reporters were delving into Trump and Ellison's relationship, they
[12:28]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
found that there was a good old
[12:29]
Brian Reed
fashioned transaction that helped soften any hard feelings that may have come from Ellison not riding with Trump from the start for 2024.
[12:37]
Emily Glazer
Around this time, Larry Ellison cuts a roughly $45 million check checks toward President Trump's campaign. He gives $45 million and from what we hear, that really smoothed things over.
[12:53]
Brian Reed
The 45 million went to a nonprofit political group supporting Trump's election. And it was secret.
[12:58]
Emily Glazer
Yes. So a lot of the giving, and this is not just new for President Trump. This has been going on for several cycles now is dark money. Right. Money we can't track. This does not exist in Federal Election Commission filings. Trust me, I have manually gone through a lot of these. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And so this is money that is given toward a vehicle or a group that is supporting President Trump's reelection. That does not need to be disclosed.
[13:26]
Brian Reed
And you guys uncovered this?
[13:28]
Emily Glazer
We did, yes. I couldn't tell you exactly when the wiring went through. I don't have the receipt, but we know it. You know, dead to rights, that this did indeed happen and that it has not been previously reported.
[13:42]
Brian Reed
Emily and her colleagues Jessica Tunkel and Annie Lynskey uncovered this information by interviewing dozens of people close to Donald Trump and to Larry Ellison, or people aware of information about them and the dark money donation. They discovered it is legal. Since the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision in 2010, donations like these have become far more common and a lot harder to track because, like Emily said, groups like the one Ellison donated to, they don't have to disclose who's giving them money. The non partisan Brennan center for justice has tried to estimate at least some amount of the money those groups have spent. And they've come to about $4.3 billion between 2010 and the 2024 presidential election, though it's probably a lot more. So Larry Ellison gave $45 million to this group supporting Trump. And from there, their friendship seemed to blossom. Emily's sources kept telling her they're genuine buddies. Ellison even moved to the Palm beach area in Florida and visits Mar A Lago. Plus, he and Trump speak regularly on
[14:40]
Emily Glazer
the phone, so that's a big part of their friendship.
[14:42]
Brian Reed
How regularly do you have a sense of how regularly they talk on the phone?
[14:46]
Emily Glazer
Someone told me, like, all the time. And I'm like, what does that mean?
[14:49]
Brian Reed
Okay.
[14:50]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
[14:50]
Brian Reed
What does that mean?
[14:51]
Emily Glazer
I think it's not infrequent.
[14:53]
Brian Reed
Not infrequent.
[14:54]
Emily Glazer
And I kept hearing over and over again that they have these shared ideological beliefs. I have been told that they talk about their support of Israel. That was something they really bonded over. They both have had a close relationship with Netanyahu.
[15:09]
Kim Masters
Oh.
[15:09]
Emily Glazer
And they, like, have this shared ideology around, like, legacy media. It's no secret how Trump feels about some parts of the media. Larry Ellison, much earlier in his career, I think, felt kind of, like wronged by the media. And. And so I think that's something that they bonded over.
[15:26]
Brian Reed
There are instances from over the years where Ellison was clearly upset about coverage of him. Like in 2010, Fortune ran a story that mentioned a sexual harassment suit a woman had filed against Ellison. She lost the suit, and the reporter included that fact in the story. But Ellison didn't think it was highlighted enough. He wrote the reporter an email tearing him a new one with the subject line, hey, jerk. Ellison once gave an economist editor access to write a book about him. And he negotiated something I've never heard of before, which I thought was telling inline rebuttal rights. Basically, Ellison was allowed to read the book before publication and add any footnotes. He wanted to challenge the author's account. Each footnote began le rights. As Ellison once told an interviewer, the media feels it's their job to make sure they destroy anyone who gets larger than life. We have become egalitarian to the point that we do not like heroes. You can definitely imagine Trump and Ellison caveching over the mean old media on one of their not infrequent phone calls.
[16:27]
Emily Glazer
Another thing that came through in this reporting was how Larry is almost like a class above a lot of the other business leaders, where you'll see a lot of these dinners, especially with a lot of tech executives that are, like, flanking Trump. When a lot of these big announcements and, you know, various events where they're saying very nice things about President Trump, Larry Ellison is not often at those.
[16:56]
Brian Reed
The Stargate event was an exception. You may remember when a bunch of tech execs joined President Trump for dinner at the White House in September of last year and went around the table one by one, praising Trump, who was basking in it in front of the cameras. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, thank you for being such a pro business, pro innovation president. It's a very refreshing change. Bill Gates of Microsoft, thank you for incredible leadership.
[17:22]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Tim Cook of Apple, it's incredible to
[17:25]
Brian Reed
be among everyone here, particularly you and the first Lady. Larry Ellison was not there.
[17:31]
Emily Glazer
And what I was told in this reporting is like, he's basically better than that. Like, he doesn't have to show up. Like, he just goes so much far beyond that. He doesn't need to be seen, like, photographed sitting at Trump's side. Like the positions, they're all, like, jockeying for their friendship. And the way they communicate is a little bit more. And to me, that shows perhaps an even deeper rapport.
[18:00]
Brian Reed
And that deeper rapport certainly appeared to be useful as Larry Ellison and his son started making big moves in the media industry. We'll get to that story, including something Emily discovered that Larry Ellison's son David did behind the scenes during one of these media deals that was previously unknown. After a quick break.
[18:24]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
As we age, I guess some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Some scientists call these zombie cells. And that's what ends up driving visible signs of aging. Fine lines, the dullness that creeps in over time and one skin was specifically engineered to address this. Now's an especially good time to try it because a lot of visible skin aging starts with lots of sun exposure. Oneskin has some new limited edition summer bundles. It's their skincare and SPF essentials paired together so you get UV protection while OneSkin helps reverse visible effects of aging. Born from over a decade of longevity research, Oneskin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age for a limited time, Try OneSkin with 15% off using code question@OneSkin Co question that's 15% off OneSkin Co with the Code Question. After you purchase, they'll ask you where
[19:16]
Brian Reed
you heard about them.
[19:17]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Please support our show and tell them Question everything sent you
[19:23]
Kim Masters
this is Kim Masters, host of the Business on kcrw. Every week we take a deep dive into the deals and the drama that shape Hollywood. From the power plays in the boardroom to the creative battles on set, we bring you the inside stories behind the entertainment headlines. Check out the business part of the NPR Podcast network.
[19:49]
Brian Reed
I don't know if you followed the Skydance Paramount merger closely. Last year, Larry Ellison's son David set about trying to buy the storied media conglomerate Paramount for $8 billion. Paramount owns CBS, CBS News, and 60 Minutes. David Ellison was doing this deal through his company, Skydance, the studio behind Mission Impossible and Top Gun. With his dad Larry footing much of the bill, David has big ambitions to build one of the top movie studios and streamers in the world, and he needed sign off for the Paramount purchase from the federal government, the Federal Communications Commission, the fcc. But there was a wrinkle. President Trump was suing paramount, claiming that 60 Minutes unfairly edited an interview with Kamala Harris during the presidential election that he said made her look better.
[20:37]
Donald Trump
CBS is no good. And in fact, in honor of you, I just sued CBS today because of 16 minutes. They should lose their license, which is worth billions in value.
[20:50]
Brian Reed
It was an insane lawsuit. It's hard to imagine it ever squeaking past the First Amendment. Paramount and 60 Minutes should have fought it, but in this case, Paramount needed something from the guy who was suing them, or at least from an agency he had power over regulatory approval for the Ellison deal to go through. All of this is known and has been reported on. We've reported on it here. But Emily and her colleagues found out something previously unknown that David did during this period.
[21:19]
Emily Glazer
So as things often do in this administration, there was a UFC event that became a prime moment.
[21:28]
Brian Reed
This was in Miami last April, not the more recent UFC event at the White House.
[21:32]
Donald Trump
Trump was there and making the entrance
[21:34]
Emily Glazer
right now
[21:37]
Donald Trump
to a standing ovation. The 47 7th President of the United
[21:42]
Emily Glazer
States of America, David Ellison, is meets with Trump at the UFC event. In fact, the two of them were photographed ringside.
[21:51]
Brian Reed
And then Emily says, right around this
[21:53]
Emily Glazer
time, David Ellison called a Paramount board member named Barbara Burn. According to our reporting, Barbara Burn told David Ellison that they shouldn't be talking. And our reporting shows that she actually informed Paramount's lawyer and the board that he had called her.
[22:11]
Brian Reed
And why? Just to put a fine point on it, like, why shouldn't they be talking?
[22:14]
Emily Glazer
General corporate governance rules would dictate that certain matters have to stay within a certain group of people, especially when you're dealing with government regulatory situations with deals with potential settlements. David is not the head of this company yet. Like, they're awaiting the approval for the merger. And so any missteps could really falter A few different things. Right.
[22:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
When he calls her, like, what's your
[22:41]
Brian Reed
sense of the nature of this call?
[22:43]
Emily Glazer
We know from our sources that David was very frustrated because he was really eager for the merger to close and that David Ellison told her he heard it would take $49.5 million to settle.
[22:58]
Brian Reed
Just a note, because I know it's a similar number. This $49.5 million figure is not related to the $45 million contribution that David Dadd's Larry made to the group supporting Trump. And in general, I want to slow down and reiterate the facts we know about this call so you can take them in. David Ellison wants to buy Paramount and get this deal done. It needs approval from the Trump administration, the fcc. Donald Trump is suing Paramount. David is seen hanging out with Trump ringside in Miami. Then around the same time, David makes this ethically dubious phone call to a board member of Paramount, the company he's trying to acquire, and tells her there's a specific number that the president who's suing them will accept as a settlement. A number David happened to hear somewhere.
[23:48]
Emily Glazer
Yep. Our reporting shows that that's what he heard, that it would take $49.5 million to settle.
[23:54]
Brian Reed
About three months later, in July 2025, Paramount did settle for a lot less money. They paid $16 million to get Trump to drop the 60 minute suit, and
[24:05]
Emily Glazer
the merger was approved by regulators.
[24:07]
Brian Reed
Soon after, we asked the White House and Paramount if Donald Trump told David Ellison this number, that he wanted $49.5 million for the settlement. At this UFC event, or anywhere else. Neither of them responded to that question. Even without knowing about the call from David Ellison to board member Barbara Byrne, the circumstances surrounding this merger seemed shady, like a possible quid pro quo just out there for all to see. Stephen Colbert, who was still hosting his show for CBS at the time, said out loud what a lot of people were thinking. Now, I believe this kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official has a technical name in legal circles. It's not big fat bribe. He's not the only one who called it a bribe. Before Paramount agreed to the settlement, Emily's co reporter the Wall Street Journal reported that Paramount executives were worried that if they settled the suit with Trump while seeking approval for the acquisition, they could face lawsuits or even criminal charges for bribery. Criminal charges, of course, would require a willingness from the government to pursue them. But the first thing executives worried about litigation is now happening. Two weeks ago, after Emily reported this scoop, a Paramount shareholder sued the company along with David Ellison, Barbara Byrne and a bunch of other Paramount executives and board members, accusing them of bribery. They mentioned David Ellison's call to Barbara Byrne in it.
[25:31]
Emily Glazer
I do want to add, and this is extremely important, barbara Byrne said in a statement to the Wall Street Journal, quote, david called to vent about how protracted the settlement process had become. There was no intent to transmit information, intervene or collude in the settlement.
[25:47]
Brian Reed
In a letter to House lawmakers, a lawyer for Skydance, Paramount wrote that during the acquisition, the company fully complied with all applicable laws, including our nation's anti bribery laws. Since David Ellison got control of Paramount. Here are some highlights Lowlights of what's happened at CBS David brought in Bari Weiss as editor in chief of CBS News, purchasing her startup, the Free Press, for $150 million. Bari Weiss is a former New York Times opinion writer known for her sometimes right leaning, often quote unquote anti Woke views. Her 10 month tenure has seen one journalistic controversy after another, with accusations from veteran CBS and 60 Minutes journalists that Weiss has been trying to warp their coverage to be friendlier to the Trump administration. Ultimately, Weiss fired a bunch of the most veteran 60 Minutes correspondents and their lead producer. The other week, according to reporting in the newsletter Status, CBS News initially indicated it would not live broadcast Trump's primetime speech where he was going to spew lies about the country's elections not being sound. Then at the last minute, CBS aired the speech live anyway, even though other major networks didn't. Regular listeners will know that this is called media capture when allies of a country's leader Buy up private media companies and then bend coverage to suit him. We don't know that Donald Trump asked for any of these specific changes, but he certainly made his appreciation of the Ellisons clear. This one time in particular jumped out to Emily.
[27:26]
Emily Glazer
I believe it was March of 2026 in Miami. There was an event with a lot of business people, including a lot of business people in the Middle East. And Donald Trump took the stage and he publicly praised David Ellison. He said, quote, you're going to be a great success.
[27:46]
Donald Trump
You're going to blow away your father, and he'll be very happy about that because he loves you. But it's a great family. Great family. Say hello to him.
[27:55]
Emily Glazer
Okay, this is on stage.
[27:58]
Brian Reed
And David Olson was there.
[27:59]
Emily Glazer
He was spots. Yes, he spots David Ellison in this crowd in Miami and says all of this at a public event. It's pretty remarkable.
[28:10]
Brian Reed
This is kind of the thing. It's like zoomed out these guys who are friends with Donald Trump who've given money to him, and then they seem to get approvals that maybe they shouldn't get as easily for deals that involve media companies. And then the coverage of the media companies changes in ways that seem to be more favorable to Trump. That's kind of like the high level view. Does your reporting show have any more meat on the bone in terms of the Ellisons talking to Trump about coverage, you know, about decisions about the way the company should be run, the media companies, anything like that?
[28:46]
Emily Glazer
Well, we know as Paramount and Netflix were dueling over who would get Warner Brothers and they were making competing offers, this whole pursuit was like dragging on for months.
[28:58]
Brian Reed
Last year, Netflix was also trying to buy Warner Brothers, which again includes cnn. And initially Netflix won the bid. Warner Brothers chose them over David Ellison and Paramount. But administration officials, including Trump himself, started saying publicly that Netflix might face trouble getting DOJ approval. And during this time, Emily's colleagues learned about something that Larry Ellison said to Donald Trump.
[29:23]
Emily Glazer
Larry Ellison told President Trump that if Paramount landed the Warner deal, it could overhaul cnn. And we know from our reporting that both Larry Ellison and President Trump aren't fans of cnn and they believe it's biased toward liberal news and biased against the administration. That's all according to our sources. So we, that is a nugget that we included in our article because we knew there were these kind of talks going on.
[29:55]
Brian Reed
So Larry Ellison promised Trump that he would, that his family would overhaul cnn,
[30:00]
Emily Glazer
that Paramount could overhaul cnn.
[30:02]
Brian Reed
A Paramount spokeswoman said the Ellisons didn't make any such commitments other than Quote, to deliver truth based journalism. Oracle didn't respond to our questions for Larry Ellison. And the White House says Trump has been neutral to all parties in the Warner brothers deal. But Trump has long expressed his hatred for CNN and its coverage of him, including just this past weekend at the rescheduled White House Correspondents Dinner, where he lashed out semi coherently at CNN correspondent Kalyn Collins after she won an award for her coverage of Ukraine President Vladimir Zelensky's visit to the Oval Office.
[30:36]
Donald Trump
I want to personally congratulate CNN's Kaitlin Collins on receiving her award. It was all about me. It's a fake. She shouldn't get the award. It was a fake, but I didn't mind. I said, caitlin, congratulations. But it was fake. There's no question about it. But she's a young, attractive woman. She never smiles. I said, Caitlin, do you ever smile? Smile. You have a nice position. You're at CNN fake news. You should be a happy person. So smile, Caitlin, just smile. But we attack. And I thought, Caitlyn.
[31:11]
Brian Reed
Beyond the direct personal broadside against Kaitlan Collins, only the latest one. This underscores just how much Trump loathes CNN and might benefit if his friends, the Ellisons, control the network. Could Kaitlan Collins be fired? On a Thursday In February, Netflix's CEO made a trip to D.C. including to the White House. He met with the attorney general, Trump's chief of staff, and DOJ antitrust lawyers. Later that day, after whatever was said in the meetings, he announced Netflix was backing out of the Warner Brothers deal and David Ellison and Paramount were able to swoop in. The Trump Department of Justice approved their takeover of Warner Bros. And with it, cnn. Still, the Paramount WB merger is not a done deal. A dozen states, along with the Writers Guild recently filed antitrust suits against the company, which is why the merger just got put on ice for a year or so. Paramount has argued that the pause is a good thing, an opportunity for them to button up approval. David Ellison wrote his employees this week. We remain highly confident that this transaction does not pose any legal issues and we will complete it and bring these two companies together. His dad Larry hasn't said anything about it, though. He's hanging in the wings, quietly exerting his newfound media power. The CEO of everything, he's got his
[32:35]
Emily Glazer
hand in so many different powerful companies that are controlling the media and tech landscape. You know, it was only in late 2025 when Oracle was part of an investor group that gained control of TikTok's U.S. operations. And that was a deal brokered by the U.S. government.
[32:55]
Brian Reed
That's what Larry Ellison has gotten out of this buddy comedy. And Trump? Well, there's the money. The secret $45 million campaign payment, plus millions more, according to Emily and her colleagues at the Journal. It's hard to put an exact figure on it, but also maybe more valuable to him. The president's gotten the debasement of some of his main media nemeses. CBS News and 60 Minutes. As one of the network's longtime correspondents, Scott Pelley, put it before he was sacked, the new leadership is murdering 60 minutes. If things work out the way the Ellisons are, hoping the president could land a similar blow to cnn. I know you said you entered into this just really fascinated by the idea that, oh, Donald Trump and Larry Elson might actually be real friends. Why does it matter if they're real friends versus a relationship of convenience or politics or business?
[33:54]
Emily Glazer
At the end of the day, I think if there's a deeper layer to, to a relationship that might cause certain decisions to be made, or someone might get more leeway than someone else, I think that we could all apply that to our lives. You know, whether we're subconsciously, like, nicer to people or we want to help them more if we're friendly with them. I think that's why I care.
[34:20]
Brian Reed
Do you think the friendship, the true or more genuine friendship, means Larry Ellison has to give less money in order to get what you want?
[34:26]
Kim Masters
No.
[34:28]
Brian Reed
All right. So it's not like that.
[34:29]
David Remnick
No.
[34:29]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Okay.
[34:30]
Emily Glazer
I don't think so. I don't think so.
[34:32]
Brian Reed
I think it's still a different definition of friendship than I have.
[34:35]
Emily Glazer
I think from what we've seen in our reporting, you still gotta give money.
[34:44]
Brian Reed
Emily glazer from the wall street. A friendly reminder, as ever, to please rate and review Question Everything on your podcast app of choice. Share it with a friend. Also, follow us on Instagram @questioneverything podcast and or substack question everything.substack.com these things truly help us grow. Next week, we'll be back with more reporting on the landmark trial against Meta in New Mexico, where we sent multiple reporters this spring to chase down Meta lawyers looking for answers. Today's show was produced by Sam Egan and edited by our managing editor, Kevin Sullivan. I first learned about Emily's reporting, by the way, on a show that's regularly in my podcast rotation, the Town with Matt Bellany, Robin Semion and I are the executive producers of Question Everything. Our team also includes producer Zach St. Louis, contributing editors Neil Drumming and Jen Kinney and associate producer Kevin Shepard. This episode was fact checked by Annika Robbins. Mixing and sound design by Brendan Baker. Our music is by Matt McGinley. Ebby Kwong manages our social media. Our partners at KCRW include Arnie Seiple, Tejala Jamara, Natalie Hill and Jennifer Farrow. We'll see you next Thursday.

Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: “Is A Billionaire Bromance Capturing Our Media?”

Question Everything with Brian Reed
Episode Date: July 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode investigates the surprising and deepening friendship between former President Donald Trump and Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison, and the wide-reaching implications of this alliance. Host Brian Reed and guest Emily Glazer (Pulitzer Prize-winning Wall Street Journal journalist) dissect the personal and financial ties between Trump and Ellison, explore their families’ moves to acquire various media empires, and examine the potential consequences for American journalism and democracy. The episode draws from new Wall Street Journal reporting and features key moments and interviews that uncover layers of influence, unreported transactions, and the evolving concept of “media capture” in the U.S.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Stargate Event & Trump-Ellison Friendship

[01:30 - 07:39]

The White House Stargate Event: On January 21, 2025, President Trump hosts Ellison and other tech CEOs to announce “Stargate,” a massive $500 billion AI/data center project.
Larry’s Missing ID: Ellison arrives at the White House without proper identification, causing a security issue until Trump personally intervenes:

“Everyone knows who Larry is.” – Donald Trump [03:23]
The Bromance: Multiple sources confirm to Glazer that Trump and Ellison are “genuinely friends,” with frequent, friendly, ideologically aligned conversations:

“They just really get along. Their ideologies are very similar. They enjoy speaking with each other...I don't know. I was very drawn into that.” – Emily Glazer [05:52]

2. Ellison Family’s Media Empire

[06:31 - 14:53]

Acquiring Power: With Trump’s support, Ellison’s son David purchases Paramount and CBS News, with a bid to also control Warner Bros Discovery (including CNN).
Oracle’s Stake in TikTok: The Trump administration brokers Oracle’s acquisition of a major TikTok stake.
Concerns of Media Capture: All these moves occur in close succession to Trump’s return to office, raising flags about a single family’s outsized power over American media.

3. Money & Influence: The $45 Million Secret

[12:19 - 14:53]

From Rival to Ally: Ellison previously supported Tim Scott, a Trump opponent, before shifting allegiance after Trump won the primary.
Dark Money Donation: Ellison gives a secret $45 million donation to a pro-Trump nonprofit—a revelation uncovered by Glazer’s reporting:

“Larry Ellison cuts a roughly $45 million check...and from what we hear, that really smoothed things over.” – Emily Glazer [12:37]
Impact of Citizens United: The donation, routed through a group shielded by “dark money” laws, is legal and difficult to trace, but pivotal in cementing Ellison’s influence.

4. How Close Are Trump & Ellison?

[14:39 - 17:59]

Frequent Phone Calls: Multiple sources say Trump and Ellison “talk all the time,” sharing views on media and Israel.
Mutual Resentment Toward Media: Both have personal histories of feeling wronged by press coverage, adding fuel to their bond.
Ellison’s Elite Status: Unlike other tech execs seeking Trump’s attention, Ellison rarely attends public praise-fests—his influence is more exclusive and subtle.

5. Media Deals, Ethical Lines, and Internal Fallout

[19:48 - 29:54]

Skydance-Paramount Merger: David Ellison, with father’s backing, acquires Paramount. The deal requires FCC approval as Trump is actively suing Paramount over a 60 Minutes interview.
Behind-the-Scenes Maneuvering:
- David Ellison is seen ringside with Trump at a UFC event, then makes a confidential, potentially questionable call to Paramount board member Barbara Byrne, floating a settlement number for Trump’s lawsuit.
- “David Ellison told her he heard it would take $49.5 million to settle.” – Emily Glazer [22:43]
Fallout & Lawsuits: Paramount eventually settles for $16 million; Ellison’s call comes up in subsequent shareholder lawsuits alleging bribery, though involved parties deny intent to influence.
Impact at CBS News:
- David Ellison brings in Bari Weiss as CBS News editor, leading to firings of veterans and shifts in editorial tone favoring Trump.
- CBS airs Trump’s controversial speech live at the last minute, despite earlier plans not to—unlike other networks.

6. The Warner Bros/CNN Deal and “Media Capture”

[28:45 - 32:54]

Competing Bids & Trump’s Intervention: Netflix initially wins the bid for Warner Bros (including CNN), but Trump administration officials, including Trump, cast public doubts on DOJ approval for Netflix.
Ellison’s Promise to Trump:

“Larry Ellison told President Trump that if Paramount landed the Warner deal, it could overhaul CNN.” – Emily Glazer [29:22]
- Paramount’s spokesperson denies any such specific commitment, other than delivering “truth-based journalism.”
DOJ Approval and Legal Pushback: Netflix withdraws, Paramount moves forward, but multiple states and the Writers Guild file antitrust suits, putting the merger temporarily on hold.

7. Reflections & Why This Matters

[32:54 - 34:44]

Personal vs. Transactional Relationships: Glazer reflects on why a genuine friendship (rather than purely transactional ties) between Trump and Ellison is meaningful:

“If there's a deeper layer to a relationship, that might cause certain decisions to be made...someone might get more leeway than someone else.” – Emily Glazer [33:54]
Friendship Still Requires Money:

“I think from what we've seen in our reporting, you still gotta give money.” – Emily Glazer [34:34]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On White House security:

“Everyone knows who Larry is.” – Donald Trump [03:23]
On transparency:

“This is money that is given toward a vehicle or a group that is supporting President Trump's reelection. That does not need to be disclosed.” – Emily Glazer [12:57]
On media relationships:

“Larry Ellison is not often at those [tech exec dinners with Trump]...he just goes so much far beyond that...an even deeper rapport.” – Emily Glazer [17:31]
On shaping newsrooms:

“Since David Ellison got control of Paramount...Bari Weiss as editor in chief...tenure has seen one journalistic controversy after another.” – Brian Reed [25:47]

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:30 | Stargate event, Trump and Ellison’s White House encounter | | 05:29 | Confirmation of Trump-Ellison as “genuine friends” | | 06:31 | Ellison family’s growing media power | | 12:19 | Ellison’s secret $45 million donation | | 14:39 | Frequency and nature of Trump-Ellison communication | | 19:48 | Skydance-Paramount merger dynamics | | 22:43 | David Ellison relays $49.5 million settlement figure | | 25:47 | Bari Weiss takes over CBS News, staff departures | | 29:22 | Ellison’s assurance to Trump re: overhauling CNN | | 32:54 | Discussion of TikTok, Ellison’s stake brokered by government | | 33:54 | Reflection on “why friendship matters” in power politics | | 34:34 | “You still gotta give money”—real talk about political friendship |

Tone and Language

True to Brian Reed’s signature narrative style, the conversation is investigative, wry, and probing—balancing serious reporting with dry banter and memorable storytelling. Glazer’s insights cut through financial and legal obscurity to foreground questions about power, personal relationships, and the erosion of journalistic independence.

In Summary

This episode offers a revealing look into how informal friendships, secret political donations, and bold corporate moves are converging to reshape the American media landscape and its relationship with political power. It prompts reflection on what “media capture” means in the U.S. today—and how much of it is driven, not just by business interests, but by personal trust and decades-old alliances.

For more—listen or subscribe to “Question Everything,” and follow the Wall Street Journal’s ongoing investigative series.

Loading summary

Transcript128 lines

[00:02]
Brian Reed
My new favorite thing I've been wearing that I got from Quince are these red linen shorts. The other day I wore them to pick up my daughter from school. Met up with my wife after and she literally looked at me and said, wait, are you on vacation right now? I think it was both that they look like I was going to the beach, but also I just felt relaxed in them. And that's the marker of good clothes. Comfortable, easy to wear, and they look good. Quince makes those kind of everyday staples with quality materials that cost 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they sell to you directly. Right now they have 100% linen shirts and pants or soft tees that are perfect for the summer. Clothing that's breathable, easy to throw on, that will trick your spouse into thinking you're on vacation, make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com? for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com? for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com?
[01:02]
David Remnick
right now we are living through some of the most tumultuous political times our country has ever known. I'm David Remnick, and each week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, I'll try to make sense of what's happening alongside politicians and thinkers like Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, Liz Cheney, and so many more. That's all in the New Yorker Radio Hour. Wherever you listen to podcasts.
[01:30]
Brian Reed
It's January 21, 2025, the very first full day of Donald Trump's second term. Trump's hosting an event at the White House to announce the launch of something called Stargate, a joint venture between a bunch of companies to build a network of AI data centers across the country. And one of the guests who shows up for it is Larry Ellison, the co founder and executive chairman of Oracle. Oracle sells computing services to businesses like cloud infrastructure, but in recent years has moved into supporting AI through data centers. And it's one of the core companies involved in Stargate, a $500 billion project. So this Stargate announcement at the White House was a big deal, but there was a little problem.
[02:13]
Emily Glazer
Larry Ellison didn't have his passport and he did not have a government issued ID with him.
[02:19]
Brian Reed
This is Emily Glaser, a reporter at the Wall Street Journal who defines her beat as the rich and powerful. She and some of her colleagues are the ones who found out about this story. Everyone needs an ID to get into the White House. Whether you're worth 150 something billion dollars like Larry Ellison, or you're a regular family on vacation just going on a tour. Secret Service rules. Can you imagine having flown somewhere and not having a single ID on you? I guess that happens when you're flying private, huh? You don't need to go through security.
[02:46]
Emily Glazer
You know, I have to say, like, there was a part of a recent book about Meta where there was a scene where Mark Zuckerberg also didn't have his passport at like a critical juncture. So I'm not forgiving billionaires and the wealthiest people in the world for not walking around with their, like, government issued IDs like the rest of us. But, you know, here they are. And Larry Ellison does not have a photo ID that is appropriate to get him into the White House. He shows up, he's waiting to get into the White House. There is definitely a delay.
[03:22]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
One thing leads to another.
[03:24]
Emily Glazer
The President is called, and President Trump personally intervened to get Larry Ellison through. He told security, quote, everyone knows who Larry is. And Larry Ellison was ultimately escorted into the Roosevelt Room without the typical security process.
[03:44]
Brian Reed
When Emily heard this anecdote from her sources about Donald Trump and Larry Ellison, something about it struck her.
[03:49]
Emily Glazer
The way it was so informal and it was like Trump's just like helping get his friend through. It's like, oh, no, he's at my house. Like, wave him in. Well, that house happens to be the White House, which happens to have like, probably some of the most security ever.
[04:06]
Brian Reed
With his guest of honor in the building, President Trump enters the Roosevelt Room. You to start the unveiling.
[04:11]
Donald Trump
Nice to see you. Some very familiar faces.
[04:15]
Brian Reed
Next to him is OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, also SoftBank CEO Masayoshi San. But based on how Trump's talking, Larry Ellison might as well be the only guy in the room.
[04:25]
Donald Trump
It's my Honor to welcome three of the world's leading technology CEOs. And in the case of Larry, Larry Ellison, it's well beyond technology, is sort of CEO of everything. He's an amazing man, an amazing business person.
[04:42]
Brian Reed
Elson is 81 years old now, and in recent years, unlike some other founders and billionaires, he's been less flashy and avoided the spotlight. So it was special to have him there. Ellison even said some words.
[04:54]
Larry Ellison
Thank you, Mr. President. We certainly couldn't do this without you. It would simply be impossible. AI holds incredible promise for all of
[05:03]
Brian Reed
us, for every American, which the President seemed to appreciate.
[05:08]
Donald Trump
For Larry to be here and do this is very unusual because he doesn't do this stuff. He doesn't need it. You did a very good job for a guy that doesn't do it much. Right.
[05:17]
Brian Reed
Dare I say you hear a real fondness in Trump's voice for Larry Ellison. Admiration, even. This whole scene at the White House, it jives with something a source had said to Emily about these two men.
[05:29]
Emily Glazer
I remember hearing from someone, actually multiple people, I should say, who said that Larry Ellison and Trump are genuinely friends. And I was like, what? What do you mean? Like they're friends.
[05:43]
Brian Reed
Emily spends every day reporting on the wealthiest people in the world. She's won a Pulitzer for it. But the way these sources were talking about Larry Ellison and Donald Trump was different.
[05:53]
Kim Masters
How?
[05:53]
Emily Glazer
They just really get along. Their ideologies are very similar. They enjoy speaking with each other. And I was just so stuck on this because we don't usually have insights into friendships, or at least I don't. I hear a lot more about business transactions. I often write about the money changing hands, you know, the favors, but you don't really hear about those people having actual friendships. Usually there isn't also this extra layer of like, oh, and they really like talking to each other. I don't know. I was very drawn into that.
[06:31]
Brian Reed
Trump and Ellison's relationship is important to know more about because as we've touched on here on the show, in the President's second term, Ellison has amassed significant power over the media world. Last year, Larry Ellison financed his son David's purchase of Paramount and along with it, CBS News. Now they're aiming to acquire Warner Brothers Discovery. That deal got put on pause last week due to an antitrust suit from 12 states. But if it goes through, the Ellisons would also control cnn. And earlier this year, the Trump administration brokered a deal that handed Larry Ellison's company, Oracle, a major stake in TikTok, some of the biggest brands in media, all landing or poised to land in the hands of one family within two years of the President's term. A family that seems awfully cozy with the President and could do his bidding. And in fact, there's been a lot of evidence of that at CBS News in 60min since David Ellison took over. So Emily took the tips she got about Larry Ellison and Donald Trump being legit pals and with the help of two of her colleagues, dug into it. What new info could they find out about this relationship? Are they actually friends?
[07:40]
Emily Glazer
And then we are the Wall Street Journal. We needed to know what the money situation was.
[07:46]
Brian Reed
You pitched a buddy comedy to your editors and they were like, sure, but
[07:49]
Emily Glazer
you need the money to yes, so something like that.
[07:54]
Brian Reed
Turns out there was also way more money involved in the relationship between these two than anyone in the public knew from placement theory and kcrw. I'm Brian Reed. This is Question Everything we investigate how the truth gets buried, distorted and denied and the ways people are fighting to make it matter again. Stick around.
[08:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
As we age, I guess some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Some scientists call these zombie cells and that's what ends up driving visible signs of aging fine lines, the dullness that creeps in over time. And Oneskin was specifically engineered to address this. Now's an especially good time to try it because a lot of visible skin aging starts with lots of sun exposure. Oneskin has some new limited edition summer bundles. It's their skincare and SPF essentials paired together so you get UV protection while OneSkin helps reverse visible effects of aging. Born from over a decade of longevity research, Oneskin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age for a limited time, Try OneSkin with 15% off using code question@OneSkin Co question that's 15% off OneSkin Co with the Code question. After you purchase, they'll ask you where
[09:07]
Brian Reed
you heard about them.
[09:08]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Please support our show and tell them Question everything sent you.
[09:17]
Brian Reed
Donald Trump may think everyone knows who Larry Ellison is, but in case you don't, Ellison was born to a 19 year old single mother in 1944 and adopted at 9 months old by his aunt and uncle in Chicago. He was a star science student, dropped out of college, founded Oracle in 1977 to make databases for companies. He took it public in 1986, was CEO till 2014. Ellison has been married at least five times. I say at least because the reporting on this varies. I guess when you're married that many times, you can lose count. Like President Trump. Ellison doesn't drink. He's a competitive sailor, a connoisseur of Van Gogh paintings and Japanese feudal architecture. He owns all but 2% of the Hawaiian island of Lanai. Emily told me he also flies fighter jets.
[10:02]
Emily Glazer
So there is this like urban legend that Larry Ellison once flew a jet under the Golden Gate Bridge in the middle of the night. And like crazy thing, yes, okay, I do. I cannot confirm or deny this.
[10:17]
Brian Reed
This was back in the early 2000s. Charlie Rose asked Ellison about it on 60 Minutes in 2004.
[10:23]
Charlie Rose
There is the story that you once flew a plane under the Golden Gate Bridge.
[10:31]
Larry Ellison
There is that story.
[10:32]
Charlie Rose
Did you do that?
[10:34]
Larry Ellison
Well, Charlie, that would be against the rules. That would be against aviation rules. So. So of course not.
[10:41]
Charlie Rose
If you did it, would you acknowledge it?
[10:42]
Larry Ellison
No, sir.
[10:43]
Charlie Rose
What kind of plane would you have done it in if you had done it?
[10:45]
Larry Ellison
If I had done it, I have
[10:49]
Brian Reed
a couple of fighter pilots.
[10:51]
Larry Ellison
Yeah, fighter planes. Both of those would have been good choices.
[10:54]
Brian Reed
That episode was called the Most Competitive man in the World. Kind of funny that it's from 60 Minutes, which Ellison's son just bought. When it comes to politics, Ellison has supported Democrats and Republicans over the years and including, interestingly, Republicans who've opposed Trump. I was reminded by Emily that As recently as 2023, Ellison backed a candidate who was challenging Trump in the Republican primary for president, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott. Emily says Senator Scott and Ellison are tight.
[11:26]
Emily Glazer
Tim Scott and his family have visited Larry Ellison's Hawaiian island a couple of times. They've stayed like at the compound there, not the hotel, which is an important distinction in my eyes because it's like that shows, you know, a degree of closeness. But when it became clear that Donald Trump was going to be the Republican nominee, Larry Ellison shifted.
[11:47]
Brian Reed
He threw himself behind Trump, tried to convince him to pick Scott as his vp, which obviously didn't pan out. But Trump won. And there Larry Ellison was by the first day of Trump's new presidency being waved through the security gates to announce Stargate and be praised warmly by the President. I'm just trying to get my head around this cuz Trump is so vindictive and prizes loyalty so much so to think that Larry Ellison was supporting, you know, an opponent of Trump's in the primary. How did it go from that to this close special friendship.
[12:19]
Emily Glazer
$45 million, baby.
[12:24]
Brian Reed
As Emily and her co reporters were delving into Trump and Ellison's relationship, they
[12:28]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
found that there was a good old
[12:29]
Brian Reed
fashioned transaction that helped soften any hard feelings that may have come from Ellison not riding with Trump from the start for 2024.
[12:37]
Emily Glazer
Around this time, Larry Ellison cuts a roughly $45 million check checks toward President Trump's campaign. He gives $45 million and from what we hear, that really smoothed things over.
[12:53]
Brian Reed
The 45 million went to a nonprofit political group supporting Trump's election. And it was secret.
[12:58]
Emily Glazer
Yes. So a lot of the giving, and this is not just new for President Trump. This has been going on for several cycles now is dark money. Right. Money we can't track. This does not exist in Federal Election Commission filings. Trust me, I have manually gone through a lot of these. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. And so this is money that is given toward a vehicle or a group that is supporting President Trump's reelection. That does not need to be disclosed.
[13:26]
Brian Reed
And you guys uncovered this?
[13:28]
Emily Glazer
We did, yes. I couldn't tell you exactly when the wiring went through. I don't have the receipt, but we know it. You know, dead to rights, that this did indeed happen and that it has not been previously reported.
[13:42]
Brian Reed
Emily and her colleagues Jessica Tunkel and Annie Lynskey uncovered this information by interviewing dozens of people close to Donald Trump and to Larry Ellison, or people aware of information about them and the dark money donation. They discovered it is legal. Since the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision in 2010, donations like these have become far more common and a lot harder to track because, like Emily said, groups like the one Ellison donated to, they don't have to disclose who's giving them money. The non partisan Brennan center for justice has tried to estimate at least some amount of the money those groups have spent. And they've come to about $4.3 billion between 2010 and the 2024 presidential election, though it's probably a lot more. So Larry Ellison gave $45 million to this group supporting Trump. And from there, their friendship seemed to blossom. Emily's sources kept telling her they're genuine buddies. Ellison even moved to the Palm beach area in Florida and visits Mar A Lago. Plus, he and Trump speak regularly on
[14:40]
Emily Glazer
the phone, so that's a big part of their friendship.
[14:42]
Brian Reed
How regularly do you have a sense of how regularly they talk on the phone?
[14:46]
Emily Glazer
Someone told me, like, all the time. And I'm like, what does that mean?
[14:49]
Brian Reed
Okay.
[14:50]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
[14:50]
Brian Reed
What does that mean?
[14:51]
Emily Glazer
I think it's not infrequent.
[14:53]
Brian Reed
Not infrequent.
[14:54]
Emily Glazer
And I kept hearing over and over again that they have these shared ideological beliefs. I have been told that they talk about their support of Israel. That was something they really bonded over. They both have had a close relationship with Netanyahu.
[15:09]
Kim Masters
Oh.
[15:09]
Emily Glazer
And they, like, have this shared ideology around, like, legacy media. It's no secret how Trump feels about some parts of the media. Larry Ellison, much earlier in his career, I think, felt kind of, like wronged by the media. And. And so I think that's something that they bonded over.
[15:26]
Brian Reed
There are instances from over the years where Ellison was clearly upset about coverage of him. Like in 2010, Fortune ran a story that mentioned a sexual harassment suit a woman had filed against Ellison. She lost the suit, and the reporter included that fact in the story. But Ellison didn't think it was highlighted enough. He wrote the reporter an email tearing him a new one with the subject line, hey, jerk. Ellison once gave an economist editor access to write a book about him. And he negotiated something I've never heard of before, which I thought was telling inline rebuttal rights. Basically, Ellison was allowed to read the book before publication and add any footnotes. He wanted to challenge the author's account. Each footnote began le rights. As Ellison once told an interviewer, the media feels it's their job to make sure they destroy anyone who gets larger than life. We have become egalitarian to the point that we do not like heroes. You can definitely imagine Trump and Ellison caveching over the mean old media on one of their not infrequent phone calls.
[16:27]
Emily Glazer
Another thing that came through in this reporting was how Larry is almost like a class above a lot of the other business leaders, where you'll see a lot of these dinners, especially with a lot of tech executives that are, like, flanking Trump. When a lot of these big announcements and, you know, various events where they're saying very nice things about President Trump, Larry Ellison is not often at those.
[16:56]
Brian Reed
The Stargate event was an exception. You may remember when a bunch of tech execs joined President Trump for dinner at the White House in September of last year and went around the table one by one, praising Trump, who was basking in it in front of the cameras. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, thank you for being such a pro business, pro innovation president. It's a very refreshing change. Bill Gates of Microsoft, thank you for incredible leadership.
[17:22]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Tim Cook of Apple, it's incredible to
[17:25]
Brian Reed
be among everyone here, particularly you and the first Lady. Larry Ellison was not there.
[17:31]
Emily Glazer
And what I was told in this reporting is like, he's basically better than that. Like, he doesn't have to show up. Like, he just goes so much far beyond that. He doesn't need to be seen, like, photographed sitting at Trump's side. Like the positions, they're all, like, jockeying for their friendship. And the way they communicate is a little bit more. And to me, that shows perhaps an even deeper rapport.
[18:00]
Brian Reed
And that deeper rapport certainly appeared to be useful as Larry Ellison and his son started making big moves in the media industry. We'll get to that story, including something Emily discovered that Larry Ellison's son David did behind the scenes during one of these media deals that was previously unknown. After a quick break.
[18:24]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
As we age, I guess some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Some scientists call these zombie cells. And that's what ends up driving visible signs of aging. Fine lines, the dullness that creeps in over time and one skin was specifically engineered to address this. Now's an especially good time to try it because a lot of visible skin aging starts with lots of sun exposure. Oneskin has some new limited edition summer bundles. It's their skincare and SPF essentials paired together so you get UV protection while OneSkin helps reverse visible effects of aging. Born from over a decade of longevity research, Oneskin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age for a limited time, Try OneSkin with 15% off using code question@OneSkin Co question that's 15% off OneSkin Co with the Code Question. After you purchase, they'll ask you where
[19:16]
Brian Reed
you heard about them.
[19:17]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Please support our show and tell them Question everything sent you
[19:23]
Kim Masters
this is Kim Masters, host of the Business on kcrw. Every week we take a deep dive into the deals and the drama that shape Hollywood. From the power plays in the boardroom to the creative battles on set, we bring you the inside stories behind the entertainment headlines. Check out the business part of the NPR Podcast network.
[19:49]
Brian Reed
I don't know if you followed the Skydance Paramount merger closely. Last year, Larry Ellison's son David set about trying to buy the storied media conglomerate Paramount for $8 billion. Paramount owns CBS, CBS News, and 60 Minutes. David Ellison was doing this deal through his company, Skydance, the studio behind Mission Impossible and Top Gun. With his dad Larry footing much of the bill, David has big ambitions to build one of the top movie studios and streamers in the world, and he needed sign off for the Paramount purchase from the federal government, the Federal Communications Commission, the fcc. But there was a wrinkle. President Trump was suing paramount, claiming that 60 Minutes unfairly edited an interview with Kamala Harris during the presidential election that he said made her look better.
[20:37]
Donald Trump
CBS is no good. And in fact, in honor of you, I just sued CBS today because of 16 minutes. They should lose their license, which is worth billions in value.
[20:50]
Brian Reed
It was an insane lawsuit. It's hard to imagine it ever squeaking past the First Amendment. Paramount and 60 Minutes should have fought it, but in this case, Paramount needed something from the guy who was suing them, or at least from an agency he had power over regulatory approval for the Ellison deal to go through. All of this is known and has been reported on. We've reported on it here. But Emily and her colleagues found out something previously unknown that David did during this period.
[21:19]
Emily Glazer
So as things often do in this administration, there was a UFC event that became a prime moment.
[21:28]
Brian Reed
This was in Miami last April, not the more recent UFC event at the White House.
[21:32]
Donald Trump
Trump was there and making the entrance
[21:34]
Emily Glazer
right now
[21:37]
Donald Trump
to a standing ovation. The 47 7th President of the United
[21:42]
Emily Glazer
States of America, David Ellison, is meets with Trump at the UFC event. In fact, the two of them were photographed ringside.
[21:51]
Brian Reed
And then Emily says, right around this
[21:53]
Emily Glazer
time, David Ellison called a Paramount board member named Barbara Burn. According to our reporting, Barbara Burn told David Ellison that they shouldn't be talking. And our reporting shows that she actually informed Paramount's lawyer and the board that he had called her.
[22:11]
Brian Reed
And why? Just to put a fine point on it, like, why shouldn't they be talking?
[22:14]
Emily Glazer
General corporate governance rules would dictate that certain matters have to stay within a certain group of people, especially when you're dealing with government regulatory situations with deals with potential settlements. David is not the head of this company yet. Like, they're awaiting the approval for the merger. And so any missteps could really falter A few different things. Right.
[22:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
When he calls her, like, what's your
[22:41]
Brian Reed
sense of the nature of this call?
[22:43]
Emily Glazer
We know from our sources that David was very frustrated because he was really eager for the merger to close and that David Ellison told her he heard it would take $49.5 million to settle.
[22:58]
Brian Reed
Just a note, because I know it's a similar number. This $49.5 million figure is not related to the $45 million contribution that David Dadd's Larry made to the group supporting Trump. And in general, I want to slow down and reiterate the facts we know about this call so you can take them in. David Ellison wants to buy Paramount and get this deal done. It needs approval from the Trump administration, the fcc. Donald Trump is suing Paramount. David is seen hanging out with Trump ringside in Miami. Then around the same time, David makes this ethically dubious phone call to a board member of Paramount, the company he's trying to acquire, and tells her there's a specific number that the president who's suing them will accept as a settlement. A number David happened to hear somewhere.
[23:48]
Emily Glazer
Yep. Our reporting shows that that's what he heard, that it would take $49.5 million to settle.
[23:54]
Brian Reed
About three months later, in July 2025, Paramount did settle for a lot less money. They paid $16 million to get Trump to drop the 60 minute suit, and
[24:05]
Emily Glazer
the merger was approved by regulators.
[24:07]
Brian Reed
Soon after, we asked the White House and Paramount if Donald Trump told David Ellison this number, that he wanted $49.5 million for the settlement. At this UFC event, or anywhere else. Neither of them responded to that question. Even without knowing about the call from David Ellison to board member Barbara Byrne, the circumstances surrounding this merger seemed shady, like a possible quid pro quo just out there for all to see. Stephen Colbert, who was still hosting his show for CBS at the time, said out loud what a lot of people were thinking. Now, I believe this kind of complicated financial settlement with a sitting government official has a technical name in legal circles. It's not big fat bribe. He's not the only one who called it a bribe. Before Paramount agreed to the settlement, Emily's co reporter the Wall Street Journal reported that Paramount executives were worried that if they settled the suit with Trump while seeking approval for the acquisition, they could face lawsuits or even criminal charges for bribery. Criminal charges, of course, would require a willingness from the government to pursue them. But the first thing executives worried about litigation is now happening. Two weeks ago, after Emily reported this scoop, a Paramount shareholder sued the company along with David Ellison, Barbara Byrne and a bunch of other Paramount executives and board members, accusing them of bribery. They mentioned David Ellison's call to Barbara Byrne in it.
[25:31]
Emily Glazer
I do want to add, and this is extremely important, barbara Byrne said in a statement to the Wall Street Journal, quote, david called to vent about how protracted the settlement process had become. There was no intent to transmit information, intervene or collude in the settlement.
[25:47]
Brian Reed
In a letter to House lawmakers, a lawyer for Skydance, Paramount wrote that during the acquisition, the company fully complied with all applicable laws, including our nation's anti bribery laws. Since David Ellison got control of Paramount. Here are some highlights Lowlights of what's happened at CBS David brought in Bari Weiss as editor in chief of CBS News, purchasing her startup, the Free Press, for $150 million. Bari Weiss is a former New York Times opinion writer known for her sometimes right leaning, often quote unquote anti Woke views. Her 10 month tenure has seen one journalistic controversy after another, with accusations from veteran CBS and 60 Minutes journalists that Weiss has been trying to warp their coverage to be friendlier to the Trump administration. Ultimately, Weiss fired a bunch of the most veteran 60 Minutes correspondents and their lead producer. The other week, according to reporting in the newsletter Status, CBS News initially indicated it would not live broadcast Trump's primetime speech where he was going to spew lies about the country's elections not being sound. Then at the last minute, CBS aired the speech live anyway, even though other major networks didn't. Regular listeners will know that this is called media capture when allies of a country's leader Buy up private media companies and then bend coverage to suit him. We don't know that Donald Trump asked for any of these specific changes, but he certainly made his appreciation of the Ellisons clear. This one time in particular jumped out to Emily.
[27:26]
Emily Glazer
I believe it was March of 2026 in Miami. There was an event with a lot of business people, including a lot of business people in the Middle East. And Donald Trump took the stage and he publicly praised David Ellison. He said, quote, you're going to be a great success.
[27:46]
Donald Trump
You're going to blow away your father, and he'll be very happy about that because he loves you. But it's a great family. Great family. Say hello to him.
[27:55]
Emily Glazer
Okay, this is on stage.
[27:58]
Brian Reed
And David Olson was there.
[27:59]
Emily Glazer
He was spots. Yes, he spots David Ellison in this crowd in Miami and says all of this at a public event. It's pretty remarkable.
[28:10]
Brian Reed
This is kind of the thing. It's like zoomed out these guys who are friends with Donald Trump who've given money to him, and then they seem to get approvals that maybe they shouldn't get as easily for deals that involve media companies. And then the coverage of the media companies changes in ways that seem to be more favorable to Trump. That's kind of like the high level view. Does your reporting show have any more meat on the bone in terms of the Ellisons talking to Trump about coverage, you know, about decisions about the way the company should be run, the media companies, anything like that?
[28:46]
Emily Glazer
Well, we know as Paramount and Netflix were dueling over who would get Warner Brothers and they were making competing offers, this whole pursuit was like dragging on for months.
[28:58]
Brian Reed
Last year, Netflix was also trying to buy Warner Brothers, which again includes cnn. And initially Netflix won the bid. Warner Brothers chose them over David Ellison and Paramount. But administration officials, including Trump himself, started saying publicly that Netflix might face trouble getting DOJ approval. And during this time, Emily's colleagues learned about something that Larry Ellison said to Donald Trump.
[29:23]
Emily Glazer
Larry Ellison told President Trump that if Paramount landed the Warner deal, it could overhaul cnn. And we know from our reporting that both Larry Ellison and President Trump aren't fans of cnn and they believe it's biased toward liberal news and biased against the administration. That's all according to our sources. So we, that is a nugget that we included in our article because we knew there were these kind of talks going on.
[29:55]
Brian Reed
So Larry Ellison promised Trump that he would, that his family would overhaul cnn,
[30:00]
Emily Glazer
that Paramount could overhaul cnn.
[30:02]
Brian Reed
A Paramount spokeswoman said the Ellisons didn't make any such commitments other than Quote, to deliver truth based journalism. Oracle didn't respond to our questions for Larry Ellison. And the White House says Trump has been neutral to all parties in the Warner brothers deal. But Trump has long expressed his hatred for CNN and its coverage of him, including just this past weekend at the rescheduled White House Correspondents Dinner, where he lashed out semi coherently at CNN correspondent Kalyn Collins after she won an award for her coverage of Ukraine President Vladimir Zelensky's visit to the Oval Office.
[30:36]
Donald Trump
I want to personally congratulate CNN's Kaitlin Collins on receiving her award. It was all about me. It's a fake. She shouldn't get the award. It was a fake, but I didn't mind. I said, caitlin, congratulations. But it was fake. There's no question about it. But she's a young, attractive woman. She never smiles. I said, Caitlin, do you ever smile? Smile. You have a nice position. You're at CNN fake news. You should be a happy person. So smile, Caitlin, just smile. But we attack. And I thought, Caitlyn.
[31:11]
Brian Reed
Beyond the direct personal broadside against Kaitlan Collins, only the latest one. This underscores just how much Trump loathes CNN and might benefit if his friends, the Ellisons, control the network. Could Kaitlan Collins be fired? On a Thursday In February, Netflix's CEO made a trip to D.C. including to the White House. He met with the attorney general, Trump's chief of staff, and DOJ antitrust lawyers. Later that day, after whatever was said in the meetings, he announced Netflix was backing out of the Warner Brothers deal and David Ellison and Paramount were able to swoop in. The Trump Department of Justice approved their takeover of Warner Bros. And with it, cnn. Still, the Paramount WB merger is not a done deal. A dozen states, along with the Writers Guild recently filed antitrust suits against the company, which is why the merger just got put on ice for a year or so. Paramount has argued that the pause is a good thing, an opportunity for them to button up approval. David Ellison wrote his employees this week. We remain highly confident that this transaction does not pose any legal issues and we will complete it and bring these two companies together. His dad Larry hasn't said anything about it, though. He's hanging in the wings, quietly exerting his newfound media power. The CEO of everything, he's got his
[32:35]
Emily Glazer
hand in so many different powerful companies that are controlling the media and tech landscape. You know, it was only in late 2025 when Oracle was part of an investor group that gained control of TikTok's U.S. operations. And that was a deal brokered by the U.S. government.
[32:55]
Brian Reed
That's what Larry Ellison has gotten out of this buddy comedy. And Trump? Well, there's the money. The secret $45 million campaign payment, plus millions more, according to Emily and her colleagues at the Journal. It's hard to put an exact figure on it, but also maybe more valuable to him. The president's gotten the debasement of some of his main media nemeses. CBS News and 60 Minutes. As one of the network's longtime correspondents, Scott Pelley, put it before he was sacked, the new leadership is murdering 60 minutes. If things work out the way the Ellisons are, hoping the president could land a similar blow to cnn. I know you said you entered into this just really fascinated by the idea that, oh, Donald Trump and Larry Elson might actually be real friends. Why does it matter if they're real friends versus a relationship of convenience or politics or business?
[33:54]
Emily Glazer
At the end of the day, I think if there's a deeper layer to, to a relationship that might cause certain decisions to be made, or someone might get more leeway than someone else, I think that we could all apply that to our lives. You know, whether we're subconsciously, like, nicer to people or we want to help them more if we're friendly with them. I think that's why I care.
[34:20]
Brian Reed
Do you think the friendship, the true or more genuine friendship, means Larry Ellison has to give less money in order to get what you want?
[34:26]
Kim Masters
No.
[34:28]
Brian Reed
All right. So it's not like that.
[34:29]
David Remnick
No.
[34:29]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Okay.
[34:30]
Emily Glazer
I don't think so. I don't think so.
[34:32]
Brian Reed
I think it's still a different definition of friendship than I have.
[34:35]
Emily Glazer
I think from what we've seen in our reporting, you still gotta give money.
[34:44]
Brian Reed
Emily glazer from the wall street. A friendly reminder, as ever, to please rate and review Question Everything on your podcast app of choice. Share it with a friend. Also, follow us on Instagram @questioneverything podcast and or substack question everything.substack.com these things truly help us grow. Next week, we'll be back with more reporting on the landmark trial against Meta in New Mexico, where we sent multiple reporters this spring to chase down Meta lawyers looking for answers. Today's show was produced by Sam Egan and edited by our managing editor, Kevin Sullivan. I first learned about Emily's reporting, by the way, on a show that's regularly in my podcast rotation, the Town with Matt Bellany, Robin Semion and I are the executive producers of Question Everything. Our team also includes producer Zach St. Louis, contributing editors Neil Drumming and Jen Kinney and associate producer Kevin Shepard. This episode was fact checked by Annika Robbins. Mixing and sound design by Brendan Baker. Our music is by Matt McGinley. Ebby Kwong manages our social media. Our partners at KCRW include Arnie Seiple, Tejala Jamara, Natalie Hill and Jennifer Farrow. We'll see you next Thursday.