The Case Against Jeremy Loffredo (Ambie Award-winner for Best Reporting of the Year)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Question Everything

Episode: The Case Against Jeremy Loffredo (Ambie Award-winner for Best Reporting)

Date: March 19, 2026
Host: Brian Reed (with reporting by Robin Simeon)

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Overview

This episode unpacks the controversial arrest and detention of American journalist Jeremy Loffredo in Israel, exploring both the circumstances of his case and the broader moral quandaries around journalism, state power, and propaganda. Reporter Robin Simeon painstakingly investigates Loffredo's experience—his arrest, the subsequent legal battle, media narratives, and the challenges of truth-telling in a war zone—raising provocative questions about who gets protected, why facts are sometimes stretched, and what actually counts as journalism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Arrest and Initial Detention (01:22–13:29)

• Context of Arrest:
  Jeremy Loffredo, journalist at the Gray Zone, was detained by Israeli police in the West Bank, separated from his companions, and accused of being a spy—a charge under Israeli law that can bring life imprisonment or the death penalty.
• Alleged Crime:
  Israeli authorities focused on a video Jeremy made about an Iranian missile that landed near Mossad headquarters in Tel Aviv. He had included location coordinates, allegedly bypassing required Israeli military censorship.
• First Interrogation:
  Lofredo described a chaotic late-night interrogation with major language barriers:
  • "The interrogator, the police officer, does not speak English, so we need a translator...He calls up some Russian woman who barely speaks English. And so this cell phone in between me and the interrogator, with a Russian woman on the phone." (06:11–06:37, Jeremy Lofredo)
• Interrogation Focus:
  Authorities grilled Lofredo:
  “Why did you make that video?...Did you know the information is secret?” (07:03–07:21, Lofredo)

2. Prison Experience and Psychological Impact (09:16–16:18)

• Conditions:
  Lofredo describes grim, isolating conditions in Moscovia Detention Center:
  • "My cell was about 8ft by 10ft wide...no windows in my cell. There was one...fluorescent light that would be turned on during the day that I could not control. No toilet paper, no toothpaste." (10:05–10:44, Lofredo)
  • He spent much of his time pacing to stay active and reflects on the possibility of being imprisoned for years or even executed.
• On Being ‘Enemy of the State’:
  "I'm no longer American. I'm no longer a journalist. I...am whatever this paper says I am. And this paper says I am an enemy of the state." (13:15–14:30, Lofredo)

3. Comparisons and Media Profile (14:30–16:18, 29:44–35:04)

• Contrast with Other Journalists:
  Lofredo references Evan Gershkovich’s case (WSJ reporter jailed in Russia) and discusses the idea of ‘worthy and unworthy victims’ as framed by Chomsky—implying his own lack of advocacy was due to Israel being a US ally rather than an enemy.
• Initial Court Proceedings:
  Lofredo’s lawyer, Leah Samel (a prominent Israeli human rights attorney), sought to establish that he was a journalist, not a spy. But translation and communication issues persisted through court appearances, and the prosecution seemed evasive about the “enemy” involved.

4. The Evidence and the Critical Court Moment (18:06–27:06)

• Dispute over Press Credentials & Evidence:
  Prosecutors fixated on Lofredo’s lack of a government press card but ultimately admitted this was not sufficient to justify detention.
• Key Testimony:
  An Israeli journalist from Yanet, Liron Tamari, presented evidence that the information in Lofredo’s video was previously published and not considered secret by military censors.
• Breakthrough Quote:
  "If this Jeanette journalist can report on all these things that Mr. Lofredo reported on, why is Mr. Loffredo in prison?" (26:55, Jeremy quoting the judge)
• Prosecutor’s Candid Admission (as Lofredo remembered it):
  “He says to the judge, ‘well, the gray zone doesn’t like Israel.’ I mean, and that’s like, you can’t make it up...Mr. Lofredo is...in solitary confinement because he works for a publication critical of Israel.” (27:31, Lofredo)

5. Discrepancies and Exaggeration in the Narrative (33:18–46:13)

• Transcript Contradictions:
  Simeon’s review found the pivotal quote about “the gray zone doesn’t like Israel” was not in the court transcript. Lofredo later admitted this was something he heard secondhand, not in court, from his lawyer.
• Other Exaggerations:
  • Falsely claiming to have a press credential.
  • Dramatizing solitary confinement (different cell descriptions in various interviews).
  • Misleading subtitles on a Gray Zone video (“Kill them all”), found by multiple translators not to correspond to what was actually said.
• Impact:
  Simeon exposes how these exaggerations undermine both Lofredo’s credibility and the larger cause of reporting on Palestinian suffering, warning that such behavior is “yet another tool people can use to discredit the Palestinians who are being abused.” (44:13, Robin Simeon)

6. What Really Motivated the Arrest? (46:13–52:39)

• Lawyer Leah Samel’s Perspective:
  She felt Lofredo’s detention was “stupid and unreasonable” and “insulting,” indicating state actors needed to justify their overreaction.
• Israeli Press Analysis:
  Oren Persico (Seventh Eye) suggested Lofredo’s own provocations—publicly flouting military censorship and centering himself in the story—played a major role in prompting harsh action by authorities:
  • “If you do that and you tell the censor, hey, look, I’m doing this...you almost forced the...security forces...to react.” (51:46, Oren Persico)

7. Broader Ethical & Professional Questions (52:39–End)

• Fact vs. Advocacy:
  Simeon uncovers that sometimes the Gray Zone inserted dramatic but inaccurate information in reports or exaggerated facts—even as, paradoxically, there was ample real evidence of wrongdoing by Israeli authorities and military operations.
• Reflection on Journalism:
  "The facts are enough and if you mess with them, that's not journalism though." (55:38, Robin Simeon)
• Jeremy’s Own Take:
  "I consider being thrown in prison by the IDF like one of the highest journalism awards...That makes me feel like I was doing my job properly." (56:09, Lofredo)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Interrogation:
  “We're trying to have this serious interrogation, and no one understands each other.” – Jeremy Lofredo (06:52)
• On Cell Conditions:
  “There's a penguin on each sandal that they give me. They say, whoopsie daisy. That's what it says on the sandals.” – Jeremy Lofredo (09:38)
• On Legal Catch-22:
  “Assisting means you cannot give the enemy any information that could help them or even intend to give the enemy information that could help them. So even if Israel's enemies...didn't see Jeremy's reporting, it doesn't matter if Jeremy intended for them to see it.” – Narrator (18:06)
• On Feeling Like a Pawn:
  “I'm no longer American. I'm no longer a journalist. I...am whatever this paper says I am. And this paper says I am an enemy of the state.” – Jeremy Lofredo (14:30)
• On Media Tour Narrative:
  “It's not even an opinion. It's like this was very political and this had very little to do with that actual video.” – Jeremy Lofredo (32:09)
• On Fact-Checking Failures:
  “The video from the very beginning of the previous episode...the very first person on screen to appear to say in subtitles, 'kill all of them' does not say that.” – Robin Simeon (52:39)
• On State Motivation:
  “I think he was brash...giving the military censor the finger, basically, and making his willingness to do that as much a part of the story as the story itself.” – Oren Persico (50:54)
• On Consequences of Exaggeration:
  “Any exaggeration...it puts their cause to condemn Israel and the US...above the documented abuse and torture of Palestinian prisoners...it's yet another tool people can use to discredit the Palestinians who are being abused.” – Robin Simeon (44:13)
• On Professional Regrets and Pride:
  “I consider being thrown in prison by the IDF like one of the highest journalism awards.” – Jeremy Lofredo (56:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Background and Initial Arrest Recap: 01:22–04:00
• Interrogation/First Night in Prison: 05:35–13:29
• Court & Lawyer Interaction: 16:26–23:47
• Critical Evidence, Judge, and Yanet Reporter: 25:03–27:06
• Prosecution’s Rationale (as quoted by Jeremy): 27:31
• Media Tour & Narrative Formation: 29:44–35:04
• Reporter’s Fact Checking and Contradictions: 35:53–46:13
• Lawyer and Press Analysis: 46:38–52:39
• False Subtitles & Questions about Journalism: 52:39–56:09
• Final Reflections, Ethical Dilemmas, and Update: 56:09–end

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Conclusion & Reflections

This episode masterfully dissects both the substance and narrative framing around Jeremy Lofredo’s high-profile arrest. It shows how blurry the lines are between advocacy journalism and propaganda, cautions about the dangers of exaggeration in reporting, and explores how allies and enemies are treated differently by both states and the public. The reporting does not just question what happened to Jeremy Lofredo, but critically examines how stories are built, who gets to control them, and who suffers when facts are stretched.

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Transcript

[Host Sam Sanders]

Hey, y'.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

All.

[Host Sam Sanders]

We're back today with part two of a special two episode series about reporter Jeremy Lofredo, who in October of 2024, became the first American journalist to be arrested by Israel. We first aired these episodes a little over a year ago, back in January of last year. They were reported by executive producer Robin Simeon, and they're really, I think, emblematic of just what we're trying to do at Question Everything, which is tell powerful stories that draw you in, connect you to people you haven't heard from, but also just challenge your thinking and conventional thinking in general, which these stories absolutely do. And they're also some of our best work. These episodes just won an Ambie Award for best reporting. That's like the Oscars of podcasts, by the way, While I have you, if you like what we're doing here at Question Everything, if you appreciate the type of reporting you're hearing in these stories and others, one of the easiest ways you can support us is just by rating and reviewing our show on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just, like, rate it highly, say a nice thing in the reviews, hit enter and go on with your day.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

We appreciate you.

[Host Sam Sanders]

If you haven't heard part one, go back and get caught up. It's just the last episode in your feed. It's called Blindfolded and Arrested on Assignment in Israel. And then once you are caught up, take it from here. Here's Robin.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

To recap, Jeremy, in a car full of people, had been pulled over by Israeli soldiers while in the West Bank. Israeli police put four of them in custody, zip tied and blindfolded. Jeremy and some of the others, the people he was with, were ultimately let go, but not Jeremy. And now Jeremy was being held in a police station near Jerusalem. He'd been in custody since early afternoon. It was now around midnight, and Jeremy was brought out of his cell to speak with a lawyer for the first time.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

So I went to this office and I answered the phone. And the lawyer says, Mr. Lofredo, I want you to be very honest with me. I want you to be very clear. What have you done? I said, excuse me.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Jeremy thought he was in trouble over a video he produced for the outlet he works for, the Gray Zone. The Gray Zone, you may recall, is controversial. It's known for peddling conspiracy theories and gets accused of being aligned with Iran and Russia. It denies that and positions itself as a much needed alternative to the mainstream news anti empire, as it says on its website, highly critical of American foreign policy and highly highly critical of Israel. The story Jeremy produced that he was now worrying about in detention was about a recent Iranian missile attack and how one of the missiles had landed within 200 yards or so of the headquarters for the Israeli spy agency, the Mossad. Jeremy had added a map to the video showing precise coordinates of the strike. Then he posted it without getting it cleared by the Israeli military sensor. But now, talking to a lawyer, Jeremy learned that maybe this was not just about that video or about his being a journalist at all, but about something way worse. Israeli authorities suspected Jeremy of being a spy.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

They skipped the military censorship and went straight to an enemy of the state.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

And that crime under Israeli law can come with very steep penalties, like life in prison or even death. From KCRW and placement theory, this is Question Everything Jeremy Lofredo is about to head to court. Why does the Israeli government think he's a spy? What do they know about Jeremy or think they know? And what did I not know? Stick around to find out.

[Host Sam Sanders]

I'm gonna make a bet that a bunch of you have been putting off something that I also have put off in the getting life insurance. Life insurance isn't something you buy for yourself. You buy it for the people who love and rely on you so that if something were to happen, they're not scrambling. They're covered. They have less to worry about. Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance that you can get done today. Made for busy parents like you all online on your schedule, right from your couch. You you can be covered in under 10 minutes, often with no health exam required. Even if you have insurance through work, it may not really be enough and it could disappear if you change jobs. That actually happened to me. But term life insurance from Fabric follows you wherever you go. Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. Apply today in just [e-mail]? and use my link so they know that I sent you. That's me. Eetfabric.com? policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company not available in certain states Prices subject to underwriting and health questions At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

But but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or politics, country music, hockey, sex of bugs.

[Host Sam Sanders]

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers and

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

hopefully make you see world anew.

[Host Sam Sanders]

Radiolab Adventures on the Edge of what

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

We Think We Know Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

It's maybe one in the morning. Jeremy had no idea how to navigate this predicament. In jail, about to be interrogated for the first time in his life by Israeli police, Jeremy had jumped into reporting in the conflict zone in Israel the year before. He didn't have any real training, and this definitely wasn't anything journalism school had prepared him for.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

The police did not respond to my questions about what happened to Jeremy while he was being held. So here we're relying on Jeremy's account. Jeremy was brought to a room and sat behind a desk.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

And the interrogation was the least organized and fair interrogation that you could possibly imagine. The interrogator, the police officer, does not speak English, so we need a translator. But it's late at night, so they can't get a translator to the police right now. So he calls up some Russian woman who barely speaks English. And so this cell phone in between me and the interrogator, with a Russian woman on the phone.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

On speakerphone.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yes, on speakerphone. She's the translator. She barely speaks English. The interrogator doesn't understand her. I don't understand her. I don't understand an interrogator. Tensions are running very high because we're trying to have this serious interrogation, and no one understands each other.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

But what Jeremy does understand, the officer interrogating him was zeroed in on the video report he made about the Iranian missile that landed near the Mossad headquarters in Tel Aviv.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

They say, why did you make that video? I say, because I'm a journalist. Why did you put all that information in the video? I say, because, you know, giving the viewers as much context as possible and information as possible is what any journalist would do. They say, but did you know the information is secret?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

This was confusing to Jeremy. He's a journalist. And since when are journalists supposed to keep secrets for the government? But also, this information wasn't secret, at least not from his perspective. The only reason Jeremy knew where the missile had hit was because of a PBS NewsHour report he'd seen, which showed him the exact location of the crater in Tel Aviv. So then why was he being singled out? But that question either doesn't register or doesn't matter to his interrogator. And after some frustrating back and forth, they end the interrogation.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I'm given new shackles, new handcuffs, and a soldier about my age. Him and his coworker take me to, like, an unmarked police car in the slot of the military compound, and we start driving.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

When Jeremy asked where he was being taken, the Soldier told him, prison.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I'm thinking, like, I thought the holding cell was prison. Yeah, they're taking me to a prison. Like, a real prison. I immediately think to myself, like, that holding cell's not so bad. It's just, you know, I'm alone in a room. You know, people are. They're not being nice, but they're like, not. No one's crazy. Crazy Prison sounds like it's a different thing. In the car ride on the way to the prison, they're asking me all sorts of questions. They're asking me why I hurt Israel, do I love Israel? I said, I didn't hurt Israel. But also, I mean, it's a very tricky question to answer. It's like, I didn't, but also, if I did, is that why I'm shackled up? Like, is that how this works here?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

The car stopped in a neighborhood of Jerusalem known as the Russian Compound, which is home to the Moscovia Detention center, one of Israel's most notorious prisons, known for holding Palestinians and using torture during interrogations. Jeremy didn't know any of that.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

It's a very old prison. It's a very old building. So I walk into the prison. I don't know where they're taking me. They take a photo of me. Ends up being like my mugshot. My mugshot has the big Star of David behind me. They take off my boots, and they give me, like, slip on sandals instead of my boots. They have a penguin on each sandal.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

A penguin.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

There's a penguin on each sandal that they give me. They say, whoopsie daisy. That's what it says on the sandals that they give me. My body was searched. And then also they went in my bag. They said, is this yours? Is this yours? Is this yours? With every single item in every bag that I had, I had to strip down entirely naked. And then I put on my clothes again and put on the sandals that they gave me.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jeremy was alone in a cell.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

My cell was about 8ft by 10ft wide. There was two concrete slabs, which are beds. One of those concrete slabs had a thin piece of cloth on it that was meant to be either my blanket or my mattress. And there was a sink and a toilet right behind them. There were no windows in my cell. There was one, you know, like fluorescent light that would be turned on during the day that I could not control. No toilet paper, no toothpaste. I was given a toothbrush when I went in there.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

That's all you had?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah, And a thing of shampoo. But I honestly I did not shower in there. That didn't shower. It felt so strange to take a shower in there. There's like a shower head coming from the wall. And if I was to take it, turn it on, everything would get wet.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I see.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

So it really dissuaded me from turning it on because I would be in a wet solitary confinement cell for who knows how long. There's cigarette butts everywhere, there's spray paint everywhere, there's dirt everywhere. It was just a disgusting place. And the fluorescent light, it just makes everything worse. I did lots of pacing back and forth. I would wake up, put on my sandals, and just walk from one side of the cell to the other. I was thinking, like, it's. I need to get my blood pumped and I gotta be active the most I can. So I did a lot of walking, probably like miles of walking, because I would walk back and forth, but it would be for three hours. So it's like I walked for three hours.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

What were you thinking about the most in there?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Truly, I was thinking about what to say to the judge, to my lawyer, to the police. What information do we need to get together for my lawyer? My goal and my job is to figure out how best to defend this video. How do I prove to them that this video was.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Was legal, that is, to prove that he's a journalist and not a spy.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

So part of it was really, like, practical, like that kind of stuff. The other stuff was, of course, I'm trying to tell myself that 10 years is not that bad. 30 years old. There's tons of people who are 30 years old who are happy and they consider themselves young, and that'll be me. I'm thinking about my father is doubtful he'll be alive in 10 years.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

How old's your dad?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

70. I'm just thinking about, like, what will happen in the outside world while I'm here in prison. I'm also thinking how stupid it is I'm here.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Your idea of the worst case scenario is like, 10 years. Come on, it can't be more than 10 years.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Do you ever let yourself go to the worst, worst case scenario?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

No. I couldn't even think about, like, if they put me to death. I mean, it's so unbelievable.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

For me, part of what is hard to grasp about this is that you're in a country that is a US ally and we're helping them fight. Did you at any point try to make any appeal to the police holding you along those lines?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

No. No. I mean, I was in, like, the gate was closed, my door was closed on my cell. There was one time, I mean, there was actually maybe a couple times where guards would come open my thing and, like, there'd be three of them or two of them, and they would just, like, peek over and look at me as if I was like a zoo animal. Because they were so intrigued that a white American was in this cell with a slip on the door that says enemy of the state. And all the guards see that I'm being charged with giving information to the enemy during wartime. That's a terrorist charge. So they are all treating me like a terrorist. I'm no longer American. I'm no longer a journalist. I. I am whatever this paper says I am. And this paper says I am an enemy of the state.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Jeremy is not just alone. He is feeling lonely and sometimes not knowing if anyone he loves is even aware he's gone missing. Feeling sorry for himself, he remembers all of the fanfare and outrage that Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich got when he was charged with being a Russian spy and was sentenced to 16 years in prison. That was all over the news. Eben Gershkovich was considered a hostage. High profile journalists like Jake Tapper came to his defense, which was amplified by a very public campaign for his release by the Biden administration. When last summer, after spending almost 500 days in prison, Gurskovich was released, all the major networks filmed him as President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris shook his hand on the tarmac. Is that what you were thinking then? Even. It's like fantasizing, even maybe out there, Biden is making a speech and saying, we have to get Jeremy Lofredo home.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I wasn't that confident. I didn't see the State Department or the US Government acting that way. I think this is Noam Chomsky. Talk about worthy and unworthy victims, how you are a worthy victim if your story can be used to further the aims of your government. And you're an unworthy victim if your story cannot be used to further the aims of your government. So when someone gets taken by Russia, of course that's our biggest geopolitical enemy. Like, our government can use that story to drive home that Russia is bad and evil in X and. Yeah, but like, when Israel does it, our ally, I mean, I can't think of a starker contrast.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

This is what you were thinking about immediately?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

After clocking a few hours of sleep, his first night's sleep in prison, Jeremy got dressed for court. He got to put on his own clothes and shoes. He told me he tried to make his shirt less wrinkly for court by rubbing it with water from his tiny sink. Guards escorted him from his cell.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

They walk me down a hall and they open the door and there's this like 5 foot 1, 80 year old Israeli woman sitting in a chair. That's my lawyer.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

One of Jeremy's friends had contacted an NGO about Jeremy's arrest, and they had called him a new lawyer, different from the one he'd spoken to on the phone the night before.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

So I know I have a lawyer. So like this, this has to be the lawyer.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Okay.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

You like her?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I like this lady. But at the same time, I. I'm upset that my lawyer doesn't speak great English and doesn't understand me that well. We agree very quickly that we need to show the court that I'm actually a journalist. I'm not a spy.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Okay.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

So I'm telling her places where she can find my writing or my videos. Yeah, next year for pbs. Those are the most important things. If we're trying to argue that I'm, you know, innocent, giving her everything, and I'm hoping some of it sticks. And that's the woman that's gonna represent me in court in a couple hours.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

They've barely said much of anything before guards interrupt.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

They say, you're done, and they grab me by the wrist and they walk me out. I was never able to communicate with this woman. She doesn't even speak English as her first language. I'm getting walked back to my cell thinking that was horrible. She doesn't know anything. She doesn't even know the video exists.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

What Jeremy is being accused of is violating something called Article 99, which says that you cannot act in a way that assists an enemy of Israel. And here's the provision. Assisting means you cannot give the enemy any information that could help them or even intend to give the enemy information that could help them. So even if Israel's enemies, Iran or others, didn't see Jeremy's reporting, it doesn't matter if Jeremy intended for them to see it. That's enough. Only in Jeremy's case, the Israeli police are not saying who the enemy is specifically just an enemy. Jeremy gets shuffled to the courtroom. A woman from the US Embassy is there.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

She was. Nice to meet you. So, yeah. So how can you get me out of here? Like what. What do you. What are you guys thinking? Surely, like when American citizens are. Come on, you gotta. There's gotta be something that you're trying to do. And she said, I'm sorry, that's not what we do. We can't get anyone out of prison. We can't meddle in, you know, the court affairs of a different country. But. But we're here to witness everything and make sure that it's all fair, that the court process is fair for you.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Jeremy, did you ask any other thing, like, can I call my dad? Did you make any kind of statement requests?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

No, I asked that one question. What are you doing? She told me nothing, and it's not what I wanted here. Like, I looked away from her. I was done talking to her, and she went back and she sat where she was sitting.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jeremy's in the position of having to rely on two governments that he's deeply skeptical of us and Israel to treat him fairly. It's uncomfortable for him.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Okay, so what does your lawyer say to do as you're sitting there?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Well, actually, I'm not allowed to speak to my lawyer even in the court. So I'm sitting like a pew, a row behind my lawyer, and my lawyer is, you know, talking to the judge and talking. And the prosecutor's talking to the judge, but I can't speak in the court. She can't hand me a paper in the court. I'm just allowed to be there to witness everything, but everything's in Hebrew. So, like, I'm sitting there just watching these people talk about me, but I don't know what they're saying.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Oh, this is a nightmare.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I have the transcripts from Jeremy's hearings. From those, it appears the court did provide an English translator once, but that was it mostly. Jeremy's lawyer seemed to be playing the role of translator and lawyer for Jeremy in court, turning around between arguments to explain things to him. Sitting behind her on one day, Jeremy told me some other woman who Jeremy doesn't know just showed up, sat next to him, and translated the proceedings to English. There are some bizarre exchanges between Jeremy's lawyer and the prosecutor.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

First and foremost, they are in a tug of war over the topic. Is it journalism or spy business? Jeremy's lawyer on day one, spars with the prosecutor, asks maybe the main question. You say spy. Spy for whom? Who is the enemy? She asks. Prosecutor. Other countries. In this exchange, she will ask again, who is the enemy? Countries that are acting against Israel. She will ask again, who is the enemy, Prosecutor? For me, the enemy could be Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Syria. This is going nowhere. For her part, Jeremy's lawyer argues, if Jeremy's a spy, he's a bad one because Spies don't tell all their secrets. In a video online, she has a sense of humor. One of the reasons the prosecutor doesn't buy that Jeremy is a journalist. Jeremy doesn't have a government press office card, a gpo. Remember that from the transcript. The prosecutor says, quote, he's supposed to be carrying with him press credentials and he doesn't have them. He can't show them because he doesn't have them. Remember, the government press office card isn't mandatory. Jeremy's lawyer asks, if he did have documentation showing that he's a journalist, would it have made a difference?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

The prosecutor responds, no. At one point, the prosecutor mentions secret documents, privileged information in the case file that only the judge is privy to, that Jeremy doesn't know about, and asks the judge to keep Jeremy in prison so they can go through his phone. And Jeremy hearing this, panics. He turns to the woman translating for him, the stranger sitting next to him.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

And I said, does my, like, can he just deport me to have them mention that or have they talked about deportation? She says, no. I said, I don't mind if they kick me out of the country. I want to go home. She said, did you tell your lawyer that? I said no. And so this woman stands up and looks at the judge and says, he doesn't mind just going home. He doesn't mind just getting sent back to New York. He wants to leave the country. And my lawyer stands up and says, he is not in his right mind. He is so traumatized by this experience. He does not mean that. And I looked at the lady next to me, I said, what did she just what did she say? And she said, she said that you're, you're out of your mind. Why would my lawyer, who's supposed to be representing me, look at the judge, the only person with authority in the entire room, and say that I'm out of my mind. I don't want this lawyer anymore. I feel like she doesn't understand me. I feel like she can't represent me. I did not think she was doing a good job. Like I wanted a new lawyer. And I was thinking like, how do I even get a new lawyer?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

What Jeremy would learn later, his lawyer, the 5 foot 179 year old woman is one of the most famous human rights lawyers in Israel, known for defending specifically Palestinians accused of terrorism. Leah Samel. There's an Emmy award winning documentary made about her called Advocate. I talked to Leah Samel. When I asked her about that moment in court where she told the judge to ignore Jeremy asking To be deported. She said asking for that was a double edged sword. Jeremy has this Jewish background, she told me, and said this is a direct quote, the judges are quite racist, end quote. So being Jewish and wanting to leave Israel would not make any kind of sense to them. And it would make Jeremy look even more suspicious than he already did. Leah's main argument, the drum she keeps beating, is that Jeremy is not a spy in any kind of way. That the courts cannot keep Jeremy imprisoned for doing the same kind of report that others were. Jeremy does not get deported. The judge agrees with the prosecution that there's a reasonable suspicion about Jeremy, that he doesn't agree, that they need a week to search for more evidence. He grants them. One day.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

The hearings were open to the public. No one from Jeremy's outlet, the Gray Zone, was there. But by day two, Leah Samel had contacted Jeremy's editor and founder of the Gray Zone, Max Blumenthal.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Max had sent her like a short dossier of, you know, other times that the Israeli mainstream media reported on in more detail and before me exactly what my video had in it and just screenshots of things that I've done for American mainstream media that she could then give that to the judge to prove that I'm not, you know, a spy of some sort. I actually am a journalist.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

That all was given to the court. Jeremy says there was even a letter from his girlfriend speaking to his character.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

The first line said I love you and I like started crying a little bit.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Jeremy says two of his friends were in court. Mayor Gorodskoye, who'd been in the car and gotten detained with Jeremy and another friend named Yasmine. Some new guy is there too. He's from Yanet, which is one of Israel's top news outlets. It turns out that he too had reported on the missile attack. Leah, his lawyer, explains to Jeremy, he

[Jeremy Lofredo]

included pretty much all the same information that you did and then he reported on your arrest in Yanet. I gave him a thumbs up from across the courtroom and she says the military censor allowed him to reference your arrest and also allowed him to embed your video in his report. They said there's nothing secret in this video and he's going to show the judge the correspondence that he had with the military censor, of the military censor saying there's nothing secret in this video and you can publish this article with the video embedded in it. I said, that's a golden ticket. That's a great idea. I'm so happy he's here.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

The inet reporter. His name is Liron Tamari. His testimony was really effective. He showed the judge the letter from the censor in his phone.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

The judge reads it. He says, so if this Jeanette journalist can report on all These things that Mr. Lofredo reported on, why is Mr. Loffredo in prison?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Since the beginning of the trial, the prosecutors had been pretty evasive when asked what evidence they had to charge Jeremy with being an enemy of the state. So Jeremy wanted an answer to that question. Why had he been arrested? After all, he was just doing his job, being a reporter. And then Jeremy Sundays, on the second day in court, it came. He heard it from the prosecutor's own mouth.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

He says to the judge, he says, well, the gray zone doesn't like Israel. I mean, and that's like, you can't make it up. Like, it's not. That is, he's saying to the judge, Mr. Lofredo is wearing shackles and he's in solitary confinement because he works for a publication critical of Israel. He said that in the court. It's in the transcripts for Jeremy.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

There it is. He's got his answer. The gray zone doesn't like Israel. Finally, it makes sense to him. That's why he's been arrested and suspected of being a spy. Israel has banned and censored newsrooms. They shuttered Al Jazeera's operations, for instance. But a prosecutor admitting Israel had arrested an American reporter and was threatening him with life in prison or worse because his outlet is critical of Israel. It was outrageous. It seemed like a whole new draconian step in Israel's treatment of the press. Ultimately, the judge seems swayed by the Yanette reporter showing up at that letter from the censor saying Jeremy's reporting was fine. Jeremy goes through a few more rounds of do this Go Here by the Israeli government. His case goes to a higher court before he's provisionally released from prison and gets to stay at a friend's house so long as he doesn't leave the country. Meanwhile, the police continue to search his electronics and call him in for more questioning. Finally, 13 days after he was first detained, he was allowed to fly home to New York. Once he was home, Jeremy found himself walking around the East Village having a coffee and thinking, wait, the death penalty. As more days went by, Jeremy started to feel a little disappointed that he wouldn't be going back to Israel. There were more stories he wanted to do there. But Jeremy also realized he had a story to tell here, the story of what happened to him, how he was treated, and why?

[Max Blumenthal]

As most of you know, Jeremy Lofredo was in Israel, Palestine reporting for the Gray Zone. And now Jeremy's back.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

This is Jeremy started with two back to back episodes on the Gray Zone podcast, which is hosted by Jeremy's boss, Max Blumenthal.

[Max Blumenthal]

Let's bring in our guest, Jeremy Lofredo, who is just back in New York City. New York, New York City. So nice day to name it twice. Are you glad to be back, Jeremy?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

It feels spectacular to be back from Israel and be out of prison.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

This video is from just after Jeremy got back. The title is Jeremy Lofredo on Being Jailed by Israel for Journalism. Here's Max talking about the story he assigned Jeremy, the one that got Jeremy into so much trouble.

[Max Blumenthal]

Iran retaliated finally with a massive ballistic missile volley that was directed at military targets. And Jeremy reported on this extremely newsworthy event as virtually every other international journalist there did. And, and then he was arrested for the crime of journalism.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

It seems like they had absolutely nothing other than, you know, a political axe to grind against myself in the Gray Zone.

[Max Blumenthal]

Well, you know, when you, I mean, this is my speculation and I, I'm going to be backing up this speculation more and more in the coming weeks and months, which is that when you Google the Gray Zone or look at our. First of all, our Wikipedia page is just a collection of smears, distortions of half truths and lies.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Max does not, as of yet anyway, back up any speculation about the Gray Zone. And for the record, the Wikipedia page is pretty well sourced.

[Max Blumenthal]

It appears that there are real world consequences that our journalists that contribute to the Gray Zone are facing as a result of this bogus smear.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

What began as the story of what happened to Jeremy in the retelling becomes the story of what the Israeli authorities tried to do to the Gray Zone. Jeremy goes on a whole podcast media tour hammering home that he was a pawn in the Israeli state's attack on the Gray Zone. Here he is on Chris Hedge's podcast.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

It's not even an opinion. It's like this was very political and this had very little to do with that actual video. This had much more to do with my prior reporting and maybe with the

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Gray Zone on the Jimmy Dore Show.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

They look at the Gray Zone website because I tell them it's for the Gray Zone. Their eyes are wide and they're, they're rolling their eyes, they're saying mean things.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Again, Jimmy Dore.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

It's about the politics of myself in Gray Zone, or it's about the information, in which case it's not secret on

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Glenn Greenwald's podcast at this police compound

[Jeremy Lofredo]

late at night, but they still only ask me about the gray zone and this video I had published.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Remember, Jeremy is basing this on something he told me. The prosecutor said in court.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

He says to the judge, he says, well, the gray zone doesn't like Israel. I mean, and that's like, you can't make it up. Like, it's not. That is, he's saying to the judge, Mr. Lofredo is wearing shackles and he's in solitary confinement because he works for a publication critical of Israel. He said that in the court?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

It's in the transcripts, but it's not in the transcripts. Jeremy gave them to me, and I had our translator scour them in Hebrew. Once they were translated, I looked for anything similar, even to what Jeremy said had happened in court. My producer Zach, looked, too. I got a separate copy of the transcripts from another reporter to make sure they were complete. We did not find that moment in the court transcripts. It bugged me. So I asked Jeremy about it. You know, in the courthouse, you said one of the arguments that made your arrest make sense to you was that the prosecutor says he works for Gray Zone.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Do you remember this moment?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah. No, I. I don't know if he said he works for a gray zone or his publication doesn't like Israel. Something along those lines was told to me by Leah, and that was told to me the night at her home. After I was let out, when I went to her house to truly sit down, we had coffee. We discussed at length what I would say when I went back to get interrogated. And this was the first time I got to speak to her for a long time. And she said, like, you know, they said, ba, ba, ba, ba. About the second day, or. Did you hear that? And I was like, no, of course I didn't hear that. What did they say? And she told me that they said that.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Oh, after the fact.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I mean, I wasn't able to talk to anyone or anything.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

No.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

But there was someone there who was translating.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

There's someone who there was translating, and that was not Leia.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Right.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

But Leia is the one who told me that they said this about. At my publication.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Okay. I just want to check with her. I don't see it in the transcripts.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I consider that, like, a. Like a key thing.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

You do?

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

You told me that the first time.

[Max Blumenthal]

Yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I don't disagree with you. I think it is a key thing.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I mean, it gives like. Like motive. Like that's, that's a, it's a big detail.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

When I texted Leia, she responded quickly. No, she wrote back, gray zone was not the issue at all. I double checked with her and she reiterated that she never heard the prosecutor say this was about the gray zone and said if he'd said that, it would be in the transcript. And how'd I check the transcript? I did. I said it isn't there. So, no, she said it's not so. If Israel didn't target Jeremy because he worked for the gray zone, then why did they arrest him? Why would Jeremy tell me something happened in court when it didn't? That's next. After a quick break,

[Host Sam Sanders]

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[Reporter Robin Simeon]

All.

[Host Sam Sanders]

Each week on the Sam Sanders show from kcrw, we ask big questions and share hot takes about the pop culture we love.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Now that we have YouTube, we don't need any more biopics. If they've been alive such that I can watch them on YouTube, I. I don't need it.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I don't think that music is getting worse. I think y' all just don't listen to artists who aren't in the mainstream.

[Narrator/Interviewer]

Taylor Swift retire. It's time to retire.

[Host Sam Sanders]

The Sam Sanders show from KCRW, wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Two Fridays ago, after the first episode in this series about Jeremy came out, I emailed Max Blumenthal, Jeremy's editor and the founder of the gray zone again for the seventh time in two months. Once in December, he said he'd do an interview with me. I said, sure, how about Friday? Then he went quiet. I've wanted Max to answer my questions about his role in this ordeal that Jeremy has gone through. What advice did he give Jeremy?

[Narrator/Interviewer]

How responsible did he feel for what happened?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

And after I found out that what Jeremy was telling me was said by the prosecutor in court, that the gray zone doesn't like Israel wasn't in the transcripts and wasn't what his lawyer said happened, I wanted to better understand how much of this media tour Jeremy was on, the points Jeremy and Max were repeating over and over. How much of that was Jeremy and how much of that was Max on the gray zone. Max has been pushing extreme and unsubstantiated claims about the Israeli forces since the beginning of the war. The trick of it is that the gray zone mixes conspiracy and propaganda with their reporting. So it's hard to tell where potentially trustworthy content stops and something more nefarious comes in. In one deft article From October 2023, Max pulls partial quotes from other news sources to suggest that it was Israel and not Hamas who committed the most violent acts against Israelis on October 7th. He calls the well documented testimonials, photos and videos of Hamas's attack that day lurid allegations. Haaretz published an op ed tearing apart that article of Max's headlined A Masterclass in Manipulation Exposing Max Blumenthal's Lies about Israel and October 7th. When I started this story, I'd known not to fully trust the gray zone. But I'd also been drawn to them for the lengths they seemed to go, sending Jeremy to Gaza and the west bank to get firsthand accounts from sources on the ground in hard to access situations. I had interviewed Jeremy initially because I wanted to know more about this reporter who had been putting out provocative hard to make stories and gotten arrested doing it. I wanted to know how Jeremy was treated in Israeli custody. Would he find himself in a more privileged position with our ally Israel? Especially in light of all the condemnable treatment journalists covering this war have faced by Israel's government and military. But as I went about reporting and verifying Jeremy's story, I also got a lesson in how the gray zone works, which is basically, Jeremy and Max are great at exaggerating and making up facts. It's part of what they do. The problem is I don't do that. So talking to Jeremy, what I came to find out was that with the gray zone, even the most basic facts can be undone in service to making Israel or the US look worse than they already do. The claim Jeremy made, that the prosecutor blamed the gray zone in court was one big example. But the little ones were even more revealing. Like, Jeremy told me initially that he had a government press office card and got detained at the checkpoint in the west bank anyway. But Jeremy doesn't have a press card. And to take it a step further, he told me an Israeli soldier congratulated him on being an organized, legitimate reporter.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

He said, Mr. Lofredo, I know who you are. You're the only one who has all their paperwork. Because I had a press card, I had my passport. I'm allowed to be there. Which made me feel good.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Jeremy knew he didn't have a press card when he told me that. The soldier definitely did not say that. So why would Jeremy tell that to me? Why say that? I think it's because it makes Israel sound a little worse. Detaining Jeremy, a legit journalist who has a press card, it's a little more terrible of Israel, a little more dramatic, and also less true. I have a page full of these kinds of examples. I'll only tell you one more from our interviews, one that has haunted me again, smile on its face. Jeremy told me in no uncertain terms he was held in solitary.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I was formally kept in solitary confinement and punished, you know, so it's so unfair.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

In more than nine hours of interviews, solitary confinement gets mentioned 45 times.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Between us, we have a white guy from America in the solitary confinement cell. So I get brought back to my solitary confinement cell, the prisoner transport vehicle. It drives, you know, one minute away, and I get put back in my solitary confinement cell, and they walk me back into solitary confinement without explaining anything.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Solitary confinement is quite obviously the worst possible kind of detention anyone could get in prison. Two small concrete beds, he told me. But then on another podcast, Jeremy was way less certain of solitary and doubles the furniture. Here he is on Kim Iverson's podcast.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

My own cell had four concrete beds. I didn't have any cellmates. I don't know if they gave me my own cell because I'm American or if they gave me my own cell because my crime was so grave.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Whether Jeremy was formally held in solitary confinement is unclear. He may have been held in what's known as isolation, which is a level less severe than solitary. The Israeli prison service told me he was kept in a regular cell, not solitary confinement. And while I wouldn't take their word for it, Jeremy's committed descriptive use of the word solitary in our interviews. And then contradictions and uncertainty about it elsewhere leaves me thinking. I just can't say for certain what the conditions were. Honestly, I can't even describe the room. Jeremy, after I pressed him on this months after our initial interviews, acknowledged that he wasn't positive he was in solitary and that he meant solitary like conditions. But the power of that phrase, solitary confinement, can take on a life of its own at the gray zone, like here. Max takes it one step further and compares Jeremy's treatment to Palestinian prisoners.

[Max Blumenthal]

You're in solitary confinement, they're basically starving you, depriving you of water as they do to Palestinians.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Here's Jeremy on the Kim Iverson podcast. You arbitrarily got thrown to jail for a non crime, just like so you got the Palestinian treatment in some ways

[Jeremy Lofredo]

you got the Palestinian treatment for a few days. Yeah, yeah.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Jeremy was held in Moscovia Detention Center. A human rights and prisoner support organization called Adamir calls it, quote, the most severe interrogation facility in all of the occupied territory. Adamir interviewed 138 Palestinian prisoners held at Moscovia between 2015 and 2017. Adamir found during this two year period alone, the Palestinian prisoners brought to Moscovia were often beaten during their arrest. 42.5% of the prisoners had been. 28.8% were struck with soldiers weapons, in some cases being knocked unconscious. 59.5% of those surveyed reported being held in stress positions and a third reported being beaten during interrogations. A staggering 83.5% of those surveyed were placed in solitary confinement. All are forms of torture. Israel wrongly detained Jeremy, held him on thin suspicions and treated him horribly. He was held for many hours at a time alone in a cell. When we told the prison service that Jeremy had also alleged that he was not given adequate food or water, they did not deny it. But the conditions Jeremy was subjected to are not equivalent to the well documented, extensive accounts of torture and sometimes death the Palestinians specifically experienced there. Loosely tossing around a term like solitary confinement. Any exaggeration on Jeremy's or Max's part, it puts their cause to condemn Israel and the US for that matter, above the documented abuse and torture of Palestinian prisoners at Moscovia. Any exaggeration of Jeremy's treatment is yet another tool people can use to discredit the Palestinians who are being abused. I called Leah Sameel again, Jeremy's lawyer, to get some context about Jeremy's treatment. And I should remind you, Leah is very much not a fan of the Israeli government. She spent her 50 plus year career defending Palestinians against human rights abuses. When I call her, it was three in the morning, my time. We couldn't get her zoom link to work, so I turned on my speakerphone and recorded it. Sorry, say that again. That's why it sounds bad. There are kids in the background of her office. At one point, she started chewing loudly. Are you eating lunch?

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

No lunch.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

No, not yet.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

I'm chewing some sweets I found in their drawer.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Okay, good.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

That's all. I swallowed it. Have a good year.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

She said she was not surprised that Jeremy was targeted. She said it's not uncommon for Israeli authorities to harass foreigners who they perceive as helping the Palestinians or reporting on the attitudes of settlers toward the Palestinians. So maybe it wasn't a specific targeting of the gray zone, but it was about the work Jeremy was doing. How concerned were you with Jeremy's case in particular?

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Concerned?

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Yeah.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

I thought it was stupid and unreasonable.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

You thought it was stupid and unreasonable?

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Yeah, unreasonable. I thought. It's. Really. Yeah. So it was important to get it finished with. It was very clear that we cannot charge him, we cannot blame him, we cannot suspect him.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

To hear you describe it, Leah, it sounds so simple, like the simplest case

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

that I felt.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

That's how you felt.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

I felt insulting.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Why did it take three hearings? Why did it take so long for the.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

My dear, my dear, I don't know why you live. But where I live, three hearings is nothing whatsoever. This was a piece of cake for me.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

You felt very confident that you were going to be able to help him.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Leah told me another thing that gave her confidence was that the US Embassy was very active with Jeremy's case. Jeremy had told me and hosts of various other podcasts that the embassy hadn't helped him. But Leah says embassy staff were watching the case closely, attending all the sessions and talking to her every day. An embassy spokesperson told us staff was also in touch with Jeremy's family. Leah says all of this contributed to Jeremy being treated significantly better than Palestinians who are arrested for similar reasons.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

If he was really treated as a security prisoner, you know, a real one, a Palestinian security prisoner, he would remain at least two weeks under interrogation or more would not to see a lawyer in the first stages, and the many are limits.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I see. So was it. It was. It was a privilege that Jeremy got to see you before even seeing the judge?

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Yeah, of course.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Yeah.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Yes.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I asked Leah if it wasn't the gray zone per se. What she thinks is the real reason the police would not let it go with Jeremy interrogating Him over and over, even after he was let out of prison and turning up nothing.

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

Listen, for them, I think it's quite

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

a shame, you know, embarrassing for them,

[Lawyer Leah Samel]

and they had to justify themselves.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

I spoke to a journalist named Oren Persico. Oren works for the Seventh Eye in Israel, which is an independent news outlet devoted to journalism and free speech. And he had an explanation for why Israeli authorities took this unprecedented step of arresting Jeremy. As an American reporter that I found helpful, Oren wrote about Jeremy's case. He was interested because he knows about the Gray Zone and Max Blumenthal. Over a decade ago, Max was making similar videos to the one Jeremy made last spring at the Gaza border, where Israelis were blocking aid trucks from getting to Gaza. Back then, Max was finding Israelis with extremely racist views hanging out with them, recording them, you know, having a chat

[Journalist Oren Persico]

with them, and they were like, kill all the Arabs or whatever. And he would put that up and show how extremely racist the Israelis are.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Oren doesn't think Jeremy's arrest was an accident, nor does he think it was because the police read Gray Zone's Wikipedia page. He thinks the reason all this happened to Jeremy was Jeremy.

[Journalist Oren Persico]

I think he was brash. Is that how you say during his, you know, report, what we're showing here is not allowed to be seen in Israel because of the military censorship, etc.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

This information is missing from all Israeli media reports due to the fact that it's been officially censored.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

Right.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

Here are the censored coordinates.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

So the issue, as Oren sees it, isn't that Jeremy tried to go around the military censor. It said he was purposefully calling attention to himself, giving the military censor the finger, basically, and making his willingness to do that as much a part of the story as the story itself.

[Journalist Oren Persico]

If you decide not to follow exactly the rules of the Israeli military censorship, at least don't wave it as a flag in front of the eyes of the sensors and make a spectacle. I mean, you know, you can push the limits without making it like the essence of your report. If you do that and you tell the sensor, hey, look, I'm doing this, and you put on a map, you almost forced the security forces of Israel or the police or the censor to react. I think that had a lot to do with it. I think it's more like juvenile mischief and not really understanding the consequences of your actions.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

At 29 years old, I can't chalk Jeremy's actions up to juvenile mischief. I don't think he would want me to. And I Can't recommend his journalism. Remember the video about the Israelis at the Gaza border blocking aid trucks to Palestine that my friend Rob sent me? The whole story that introduced me to Jeremy in the Gray Zone and got me interested in them. The video from the very beginning of the previous episode. That video is called Kill them all and the title is in quotes. In that video, the very first person on screen to appear to say in subtitles, kill all of them does not say that. The subtitles do not reflect what he is actually saying in Hebrew. The guy in the white baseball hat with a creepy smile, What he says is, quote, I think we need to go back to Gaza and take over so it'll be our state. But on the Gray zone video, kill all of them is just inserted there in the subtitles. Additionally, literally words attributed to him that he did not say. Looking at the video, one of our translators said, no, it's not correct. At no point does the man say kill them all. Another said, it's crazy that they subtitled we need to kill all of them. That's nowhere in there. We asked a third person to translate to be sure. Which means whatever the views are of that Hebrew speaking man who looks about Jeremy's age, however hateful his thinking or actions, blocking aid to Palestinians. That quote is made up and put across his face. It's the only part of the video where the Hebrew and the subtitles don't match. When I told Jeremy, he blamed a translator he used whose information he said he'd send me. He didn't. He said he didn't know how it happened and that he thought I was accusing him of doing something wrong. He said he needed to think about how to address this and he sounded serious about it. I also emailed Max, who runs the Gray zone, wondering if they would correct the video or take it down. They haven't. Why do this? Why make things up? Why stretch the facts when Israeli forces have killed more than 46,000 people in Gaza since October 7? When Israel has in the last year and a half become the number two jailer of journalists in the world after China, when as of today, at least 167 journalists have died in the conflict, the vast majority Palestinian, when just this week the New York Times accused the IDF of physically abusing its reporter, hitting him in the rib cage with a rifle while he was covering an IDF raid? When experts and human rights groups like Amnesty International have found that Israel is committing a genocide. Jeremy's video documented something real. People actually expressing murderous views and keeping aid from people desperate for it. The facts are enough and if you mess with them, that's not journalism though. Jeremy, who told me he regrets talking to me, sees it differently.

[Jeremy Lofredo]

I consider being thrown in prison by the IDF like one of the highest journalism awards. Truly like that is. That is like there is a country that in my opinion is an apartheid state and in my opinion is carrying out a genocide right now. And they spent, you know, two plus weeks and resources trying to make sure that I never come back. And that makes me feel like I was doing my job properly.

[Reporter Robin Simeon]

In an email to Max Blumenthal this Monday, I asked him about the Gray Zone. Is what you are doing journalism or is it something different, better, more? He didn't write me back. Foreign. I'm Robin Simeon. Thanks for listening. Sign up for our substack@question everything.substack.com One small update. Jeremy has continued to try to return to Israel, and in February of this year Israel did approve his visa application. However, within weeks they denied it without explanation. As of now, a little over a year since we first ran these episodes, Jeremy's aid blocking video is still up on the Gray Zone's YouTube. The subtitles remain uncorrected. This episode was produced by Zach St. Louis and was edited by Joel Lovell and our executive producer, Brian Reed. Additional editing by Jonathan Goldstein. Our show is made by producer Sophie Casis and associate producer Emily Moltaire. Neil Drumming and Jen Kinney are contributing editors. Fact checking by Annika Robbins and Maggie Duffy sound design and mixing by Brendan Baker music by Matt McGinley. Brian and I are the executive producers of Question Everything Today. Our team includes Managing editor Kevin Sullivan, associate producer Kevin Shepard, and fact checker Marisa Robertson. Text Our partners at KCRW include Arnie Seiple, Gina Delvak, Tejal Agamera, and Jennifer Farrow. Special thanks to Evia Tar Rubin, Yael Evan Orr, Dan Ephron and Damian Graef. Thanks for listening.