Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order

Episode 4: "Like an Ordinary American"

Release Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Rachel Maddow

Overview

In Episode 4 of Burn Order, Rachel Maddow continues her deep dive into the personal and political stories surrounding the forced incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II. This episode centers on two principal storylines: the lonely, courageous stand taken by Colorado Governor Ralph Carr in defense of Japanese Americans’ constitutional rights, and the individual acts of resistance by Japanese Americans themselves, focusing on four landmark Supreme Court cases. Through vivid narration, historical context, and powerful first-person accounts, Maddow brings to life the moral and legal battles that challenged one of the darkest policies in U.S. history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reluctant Politician: Ralph Carr’s Journey (01:00–06:52)

• Early Life & Reluctance to Run

  • Ralph Carr, son of a Colorado miner, was seen as the family’s intellectual escapee from manual labor (01:11).
  • Gained reputation as a capable “country lawyer” before becoming U.S. attorney and then being drafted into the gubernatorial race – literally at a urinal (03:27).

    "He only capitulates finally, at the urinal, of all places." – Rachel Maddow (04:11)

• Philosophical Backbone

  • Carr’s temperament and dedication to principle set him apart: “The politician we all say we want, the one who's not gonna stick a finger in the wind...” (05:30)
  • He becomes nationally recognized, even considered for the vice presidency.

2. A Stand Alone: Carr’s Response to Japanese American Removal (06:52–19:41)

• Context of Wartime Hysteria

  • After Pearl Harbor, mass suspicion and demands to remove not only Japanese nationals but U.S. citizens of Japanese ancestry escalated.

• The Political and Public Backlash

  • Carr receives a deluge of hate from Coloradans, including letters suggesting violent solutions.

    "We don't want Denver overrun by the yellow race." – constituent letter (08:18) "May God of heaven speak to your soul... No one wants Japanese here to see our bodies ravished and raped by the very devil himself." – Boulder homemaker (08:18)

• Carr’s Constitutional Defense

  • Carr stands up on radio and via direct letters to Japanese Americans, affirming their citizenship and rights (09:12).

    “He personally will not judge the loyalty of any man based on where their grandparents were born.” (09:12) "If you harm them, you must first harm me." – Carr’s statement to a hostile crowd (11:08) "If a majority may deprive a minority of its freedom today... you may be subjected to the same ill will of the majority tomorrow." – Carr (10:04)

• Impact and Isolation

  • Carr is the only Western governor to publicly welcome Japanese Americans.
  • Newspapers and much of the public turn ferociously against him; the Denver Post makes him a daily target.

    "Daily drumbeat of you're wrong, Governor. It was unyielding and constant... he doubled down, refused to bend." – Historian (15:18)

3. An Open Door in Colorado (14:06–19:41)

• Local Impact

  • Japanese Americans, hearing of Carr’s welcome, begin migrating to Colorado; university doors open to students; violence and hostility nevertheless persist.

    “He said, 'Welcome to the state of Colorado.' … It was really heartwarming and something that I never forgot.” – Herbert Inouye (17:12)

  • Japanese Americans who moved to Colorado lived freely through the war, a unique outcome among western states.

• Tragic Irony

  • Despite Carr’s resistance, Colorado is ultimately forced by the federal government to host a prison camp (18:02).
  • Carr’s advocacy destroys his political career: he loses re-election in 1942, “[he] never again held elected office.” (19:04)

4. Heroism Among Japanese Americans: The Four Cases (21:25–38:26)

• Gordon Hirabayashi (23:38–33:24)

  • University of Washington senior, Quaker, born in the U.S., initially obeys the curfew but decides to “live like an ordinary American” in defiance (25:14).

    “If the American Constitution means anything at all, this is wrong. And if I believe in a constitution, I've got to object to this.” – Hirabayashi (25:14)

  • Turns himself in; openly documents his curfew violations; hitchhikes to Arizona to serve his sentence after trial and conviction, highlighting the absurdity and resolve in his case.

• Min Yasui (33:24–34:42)

  • Portland lawyer and Army reservist; defies curfew, aggressively seeks arrest to trigger a test case.

    “I pulled out the proclamation... I proved that I was a person of Japanese ancestry. Asked the officer to arrest me... So I went down to the Second Avenue police station... and he threw me into the drunk tank.” – Yasui (34:02)

• Fred Korematsu (34:42–37:17)

  • Oakland welder, turned away by the Army due to ancestry; stays behind to be with his Italian-American girlfriend, alters his appearance, but is nonetheless arrested.
  • Taken from jail to an internment camp, reflects that “jail was a whole lot better than camp” (37:01).

• Mitsuye Endo (40:17–47:23)

  • State worker in Sacramento, fired due to Japanese ancestry; represents “the perfect plaintiff”—loyal, Christian, brother in the Army. Her case (Endo v. United States) challenges incarceration without any criminal charge.

    “She said no to the government. No, I will not drop my case. I will do what's right for everyone.” (47:05)

  • Refuses the government’s secret offer of release in exchange for dropping her lawsuit.

5. Legal and Moral Showdown (47:26–49:19)

• All four cases head to the Supreme Court, forcing the government to defend its actions:

  "In court... the government has to defend its actions with facts that can be checked." – Maddow (47:51)

• Federal officials contemplate destroying evidence (the Bendetsen Report) rather than face legal defeat.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker/Source | Quote/Paraphrase | |-----------|------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:27 | Historian | "We're going home. I don't want any part of this conversation." (about Carr’s initial refusal to run for office) | | 11:08 | Carr | "These Japanese are protected by the same Constitution that protects us... If you harm them, you must first harm me." | | 13:22 | Historian | "The public response is hell no. Why would you welcome in that type of instability?" | | 17:14 | Interviewee | "Welcome to the state of Colorado. Governor Carr and the people of Colorado welcome you. It was really heartwarming..." | | 19:41 | Historian | "I think that what he did is among the most heroic decisions a politician could make because he dramatically went against his own self interest." | | 25:14 | Hirabayashi | “If the American Constitution means anything at all, this is wrong. And if I believe in a constitution, I've got to object to this.” | | 29:25 | Hirabayashi | “I just said, I'm going to live like an ordinary American and left it up to the government.” | | 34:02 | Yasui | “Being a smart aleck and being an attorney, I pulled out the proclamation... Asked the officer to arrest me... So I went down... and he threw me into the drunk tank.” | | 37:01 | Narrator | "Fred said that jail was a whole lot better than camp." | | 45:40 | Rosenberg | "She was, quote, unquote, concededly loyal to the United States... [the government] knew they were going to lose this one." | | 47:05 | Historian | "Mitsuye Endo said no. She said no to the government. No, I will not drop my case. I will do what's right for everyone." | | 47:51 | Maddow | "[In] court, the government has to defend its actions with facts that can be checked." | | 49:10 | Narrator | "Bendetsen recalled all ten copies of this printed final report and ordered that they be burned." |

Important Segments (Timestamps)

• 01:00–06:52 — Ralph Carr’s early life, reluctant political rise
• 06:52–19:41 — Carr’s stand against removal/internment, Colorado’s unique response, political consequences
• 21:25–38:26 — Personal resistance: Gordon Hirabayashi, Min Yasui, Fred Korematsu
• 40:17–47:23 — Mitsuye Endo’s case and its unique legal challenge
• 47:26–49:19 — The four Supreme Court cases; government attempts at evidence suppression

Tone and Style

Rachel Maddow’s narration is urgent, clear, and humanizing, blending journalistic rigor with a sense of moral clarity. Eyewitness and interviewee voices are used to convey the lived experience and emotion behind the legal challenges, while historians anchor the story in a broader societal and political context. The tone is simultaneously somber and uplifting, focusing on principled resistance.

Closing Thoughts

Episode 4 of “Burn Order” is a stirring account of lone political courage, the risks of standing on principle, and the extraordinary resolve of ordinary American citizens in the face of injustice. It sets the stage for the upcoming Supreme Court showdowns, highlighting how both high office and individual action intersected with one of America's defining constitutional crises.

Next episode: The government’s desperate attempts to suppress evidence about its own policy—and what it would take to finally bring the truth to light.